RE: [ZODB-Dev] Heads-up: Test failure on trunk/Python 2.4.2/OS X
[Dmitry Vasiliev] Sure, but my reasonable assumption was that when you insert an exception message in a doctest you reread it another one time and fix typos if any. Relying on ideal behavior is rarely a reasonable assumption ;-) What actually happens is that people write new doctests, run them, and in the places an expected exception occurs they just copy+paste the traceback from their terminal screen into the doctest. The only brain cells that engage there are expected an exception, got an exception -- great, let's paste it in and move on. You're in finish the doctest mode then, not review messages for spelling and grammar mode. I'll be more careful in the future about such assumptions. There's a very simple rule, avoiding all need for philosophical rumination, let alone tedious self-improvement ;-): Run the tests before doing a checkin. That's it. I was sorely tempted to skip that for a trivial checkin yesterday, but forced myself, and was amazed to see dozens of tests fail. I apparently let a finger slip right after opening the file, and managed to delete the first quote character in the module's triple-quoted docstring. It certainly cost me more time to run the tests, but that saved countless others the time to deal with the consequences of my typo. Don't think, just do it. 0.5 wink ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
Re: [ZODB-Dev] Heads-up: Test failure on trunk/Python 2.4.2/OS X
Tim Peters wrote: [Dmitry Vasiliev] Oops, my bad. I couldn't imagine that misspelled text could been used in any doctests so I had omitted the testing phase because I was in some hurry. :-( And unfortunately I was far from any computers for past few days. Thanks for following up -- I was afraid you had vanished! Not so fast... ;-) Especially for newer code, the tests try to exercise error conditions as well as normal and edge cases, and it's natural in doctests to include the text of an exception message. So, ya, there's really nothing you can change outside of NEWS.txt anymore that doesn't require testing. Sure, but my reasonable assumption was that when you insert an exception message in a doctest you reread it another one time and fix typos if any. I'll be more careful in the future about such assumptions. -- Dmitry Vasiliev (dima at hlabs.spb.ru) http://hlabs.spb.ru ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
Re: [ZODB-Dev] Heads-up: Test failure on trunk/Python 2.4.2/OS X
Dmitry Vasiliev wrote: Sure, but my reasonable assumption was that when you insert an exception message in a doctest you reread it another one time and fix typos if any. I'll be more careful in the future about such assumptions. Without meaning to sound condescending (which certainly is not my intention): Rule number one of problem solving: Never assume anything Rule number two: Every assumption is wrong In fact, I have learned the very, very hard way over the last 20 years or so (I've got scars to show) that this applies to *everything*, and particularly to the field of computer problem solving, regardless of whether it is code, hw/sw or user interaction. /dario -- -- --- Dario Lopez-Kästen, IT Systems Services Chalmers University of Tech. Lyrics applied to programming application design: emancipate yourself from mental slavery - redemption song, b. marley ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
Re: [ZODB-Dev] Heads-up: Test failure on trunk/Python 2.4.2/OS X
Tim Peters wrote: [Jens Vagelpohl] Running the tests on the current ZODB trunk using a self.built Python 2.4.2 on OS X (10.4.3) the following test fails: They fail the same way on my Windows box and a random Linux box today ... OK, Dmitry, you fixed the spelling (replaced onnection with connection) in an error message in serialize.py several days ago (revision 40617), but you didn't run the tests before you checked this in. Please repair the testcrossdatabasereferences test to match the repaired spelling (and run the tests this time -- this is especially important since, as above, regular testing of ZODB is no longer being done). If that change got merged to any branches (sorry, I'm having major connectivity problems with zope.org just now and can't find out), of course those should be repaired too. Thanks! Oops, my bad. I couldn't imagine that misspelled text could been used in any doctests so I had omitted the testing phase because I was in some hurry. :-( And unfortunately I was far from any computers for past few days. Thanks for the fix! -- Dmitry Vasiliev (dima at hlabs.spb.ru) http://hlabs.spb.ru ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
RE: [ZODB-Dev] Heads-up: Test failure on trunk/Python 2.4.2/OS X
[Dmitry Vasiliev] Oops, my bad. I couldn't imagine that misspelled text could been used in any doctests so I had omitted the testing phase because I was in some hurry. :-( And unfortunately I was far from any computers for past few days. Thanks for following up -- I was afraid you had vanished! Especially for newer code, the tests try to exercise error conditions as well as normal and edge cases, and it's natural in doctests to include the text of an exception message. So, ya, there's really nothing you can change outside of NEWS.txt anymore that doesn't require testing. Thanks for the fix! If we don't make a habit of this, you're welcome ;-) ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
Re: [ZODB-Dev] Heads-up: Test failure on trunk/Python 2.4.2/OS X
Tim Peters wrote: [Jens Vagelpohl] Just as a heads-up because I don't know how much testing ever gets done on OS X: I do: none ;-) Can someone volunteer to run a Mac OS X buildbot slave? If not, I'll try to set up an *old* iMac that the PSF seems to have abandoned at ZC. :) For ZODB specifically, since the Zope trunks were changed to stop running ZODB tests, no version of ZODB is regularly tested on any platform anymore; the overnight test runners and buildbot.zope.com used to at least test some ZODB versions regularly (although not the --all tests) on some Linux boxes, as a side effect of running the Zope tests. I run ZODB test on Windows and Linux when I can make time for it, but never on OS X. I'll update the buildbot setups to run all tests. Running the tests on the current ZODB trunk using a self.built Python 2.4.2 on OS X (10.4.3) the following test fails: They fail the same way on my Windows box and a random Linux box today ... OK, Dmitry, you fixed the spelling (replaced onnection with connection) in an error message in serialize.py several days ago (revision 40617), but you didn't run the tests before you checked this in. Please repair the testcrossdatabasereferences test to match the repaired spelling (and run the tests this time -- this is especially important since, as above, regular testing of ZODB is no longer being done). If that change got merged to any branches (sorry, I'm having major connectivity problems with zope.org just now and can't find out), of course those should be repaired too. Thanks! This is definately a bug that should have been caught on checkin. Tim. we should set up a buildbot whachamajiggy (I have trouble keeping the buildbot jargon straight) to run ZODB tests on checkin, so we can catch these sorts of things sooner. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
Re: [ZODB-Dev] Heads-up: Test failure on trunk/Python 2.4.2/OS X
On 11 Dec 2005, at 16:35, Jim Fulton wrote: Tim Peters wrote: [Jens Vagelpohl] Just as a heads-up because I don't know how much testing ever gets done on OS X: I do: none ;-) Can someone volunteer to run a Mac OS X buildbot slave? If not, I'll try to set up an *old* iMac that the PSF seems to have abandoned at ZC. :) If I had a box other than laptops that run OS X I would help, but that's not the case right now :( jens ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
Re: [ZODB-Dev] Heads-up: Test failure on trunk/Python 2.4.2/OS X
Jim Fulton wrote: I'll update the buildbot setups to run all tests. That would be a good interim solution; long term I'd like to get dedicated ZODB buildbot slaves so they can be set up to react to check ins to ZODB, instead of coincidentally being run when Zope is changed. I'll add that to my list of things to do next time I have a buildbot day. -- Benji York Senior Software Engineer Zope Corporation ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
RE: [ZODB-Dev] Heads-up: Test failure on trunk/Python 2.4.2/OS X
[Jim Fulton] ... Tim. we should set up a buildbot whachamajiggy (I have trouble keeping the buildbot jargon straight) to run ZODB tests on checkin, so we can catch these sorts of things sooner. Happy to help, and it's certainly the right thing to do, but don't know anything about setting up buildbot whachamajiggies (btw, I'm sure that is the official term ;-)). There are currently four active ZODB lines under SVN, so four whachamajiggies should be set up (ZODB trunk + 3.4 3.5 3.6 branches). Possibly five, if we count the CVS ZODB 3.2 line too (which is still officially active, although I haven't changed anything there in months). Changing the Zope tests to run ZODB/ZEO tests too wouldn't be _much_ help, since none of the SVN Zopes see ZODB checkins (the SVN Zopes only get a new ZODB when someone explicitly stitches a new ZODB tag into them; someone == me to date). ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
Re: [ZODB-Dev] Heads-up: Test failure on trunk/Python 2.4.2/OS X
Jim Fulton wrote: Tim Peters wrote: ... to stop running ZODB tests, no version of ZODB is regularly tested on any platform anymore; the overnight test runners and buildbot.zope.com used to at least test some ZODB versions regularly Yes, very specific versions, which doesn't help catch bugs on the trunk or even on a branch. (although not the --all tests) on some Linux boxes, as a side effect of running the Zope tests. I run ZODB test on Windows and Linux when I can make time for it, but never on OS X. I'll update the buildbot setups to run all tests. Done for Zope 3. This doesn't really help much though since this doesn't reflect changes in ZODB until they are merged into Zope. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
RE: [ZODB-Dev] Heads-up: Test failure on trunk/Python 2.4.2/OS X
[Tim]
... the overnight test runners and buildbot.zope.com used to at
least test some ZODB versions regularly
{Jim]
Yes, very specific versions, which doesn't help catch bugs on the trunk
or even on a branch.
Yes; I said that later myself. Note that the overnight test runners are
still adequate for Zope 2.7.k + ZODB 3.2.k, though, since the setup under
CVS broadcasts 2.7-branch ZODB changes to Zope immediately (and vice
versa; and problems in both directions have been caught this way).
I'll update the buildbot setups to run all tests.
...
Done for Zope 3. This doesn't really help much though since this
doesn't reflect changes in ZODB until they are merged into Zope.
Why are you rewording my email and sending it back to me ;-)? There is
another point to this, though: that the ZODB tests run cleanly from a ZODB
checkout is no guarantee that they'll run cleanly from any other project
that happens to include ZODB. The most recent example of this was just a
few weeks ago, where the ZODB tests generated mountains of deprecation
warnings when run from Zope(2) trunk, but none when run from a ZODB checkout
or from Zope3 trunk. Integration of two projects can create new problems
that no amount of testing the projects separately can uncover.
___
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RE: [ZODB-Dev] Heads-up: Test failure on trunk/Python 2.4.2/OS X
[Jens Vagelpohl] Just as a heads-up because I don't know how much testing ever gets done on OS X: I do: none ;-) For ZODB specifically, since the Zope trunks were changed to stop running ZODB tests, no version of ZODB is regularly tested on any platform anymore; the overnight test runners and buildbot.zope.com used to at least test some ZODB versions regularly (although not the --all tests) on some Linux boxes, as a side effect of running the Zope tests. I run ZODB test on Windows and Linux when I can make time for it, but never on OS X. Running the tests on the current ZODB trunk using a self.built Python 2.4.2 on OS X (10.4.3) the following test fails: They fail the same way on my Windows box and a random Linux box today ... OK, Dmitry, you fixed the spelling (replaced onnection with connection) in an error message in serialize.py several days ago (revision 40617), but you didn't run the tests before you checked this in. Please repair the testcrossdatabasereferences test to match the repaired spelling (and run the tests this time -- this is especially important since, as above, regular testing of ZODB is no longer being done). If that change got merged to any branches (sorry, I'm having major connectivity problems with zope.org just now and can't find out), of course those should be repaired too. Thanks! ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
