Re: [Zope-dev] SiteRoot and VHM

2005-04-07 Thread Jens Vagelpohl
On Apr 7, 2005, at 1:45, Florent Guillaume wrote:
After spending an hour helping someone debug a site that had an hidden 
SiteRoot somewhere that prevented a virtual host monster from working, 
it was suggested to me that if there's a virtual host monster, it 
should take precedence (and deactivates) any further SiteRoot. I think 
it's a good idea.
Wouldn't that fall under Unexpected new behavior? VHMs have always 
been inert objects that don't do anything unless you specifically use 
the Mappings tab or you hand them magic URL path elements. That was 
their beauty as opposed to the dangerous SiteRoot. Now you propose 
adding magic. Magic is BAD, IMHO.

-0 on the trunk, but -1 for any maintenance branch.
jens
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Re: [Zope-dev] I want Zope 2.9 to use Zope 3's security architecture.

2005-04-07 Thread Jens Vagelpohl
On Apr 7, 2005, at 6:50, Andreas Jung wrote:
Even small modifications to the security machinery tend to
end up in lots of problems.
The latest prominent example: the changes introduced with
Zope 2.7.3: It took two releases (until 2.7.5) and
more than 6 months (at least in my memory) before everything
worked again as it should...
I don't know exactly to which changes do you refer. Either little
people that this problem or people did not use these releases or
people did not test enough or people did not contribute enough
to fix this bug in time *wink*.
This is probably in reference to some overeager security checks that 
caused login boxes in unexpected places. Jim and Tres fixed that for 
2.7.5. I thought that problem was older than 2.7.3, though.

jens
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Re: [Zope-dev] SiteRoot and VHM

2005-04-07 Thread Tino Wildenhain
Am Donnerstag, den 07.04.2005, 01:45 +0200 schrieb Florent Guillaume:
 After spending an hour helping someone debug a site that had an hidden 
 SiteRoot somewhere that prevented a virtual host monster from working, 
 it was suggested to me that if there's a virtual host monster, it 
 should take precedence (and deactivates) any further SiteRoot. I think 
 it's a good idea.

Better yet, it should just display a warning (and change its icon/title
or so) to display the problem and let the user decide the action to 
take.

Regards
Tino

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Re: [Zope-dev] SiteRoot and VHM

2005-04-07 Thread Jens Vagelpohl
On Apr 7, 2005, at 9:08, Tino Wildenhain wrote:
Am Donnerstag, den 07.04.2005, 01:45 +0200 schrieb Florent Guillaume:
After spending an hour helping someone debug a site that had an hidden
SiteRoot somewhere that prevented a virtual host monster from working,
it was suggested to me that if there's a virtual host monster, it
should take precedence (and deactivates) any further SiteRoot. I think
it's a good idea.
Better yet, it should just display a warning (and change its icon/title
or so) to display the problem and let the user decide the action to
take.
That's an excellent idea, and one that I would +1 on all branches ;)
jens
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[Zope-dev] Re: brain.getObject and traversal

2005-04-07 Thread Chris Withers
Andreas Jung wrote:
Chris wants to backport it to 2.7 x;  I'm opposed.  Your call.
If it does not change the default behaviour we have in 2.7.5... why not...
Cool, thanks, I'll look at merging for 2.7.6 :-)
cheers,
Chris
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Re: [Zope-dev] I want Zope 2.9 to use Zope 3's security architecture.

2005-04-07 Thread Jim Fulton
Richard Jones wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 02:49 am, Jim Fulton wrote:
Paul Winkler wrote:
i.e. will I still write:
   security.declareProtected(SomePermission, 'foo')
   def foo(self):
   ...
That will work, and I don't see a need to deprecate it.
Eventually, though, I expect products to migrate to
ZCML-based security declarations.

Is this a general trend for Zope 2? I'd rather see Zope 2 kinda avoid ZCML if 
possible. It's just one of those personal preference things, I suppose, but I 
know I'm not the only one who isn't that enamored of the ZCML approach. I 
actually like having the declarations all in the python code like it is in 
Zope 2.
As I said, I don't see a need to deprecate the Zope 2 style in this case.
I think that most people who've tried it find they prefer having the
security declarations separate.  This is more compelling for Zope 3 code, which
tends to have less Zope-isms to begin with,

I'd like to see the declarative style that Zope 2 move to using decorators. I 
was sitting in a presentation at PyCon talking about MetaClasses, and I 
finally *got* them. I realised that the security declarations in Zope 2 are a 
perfect fit for metaclasses and decorators. If only I had the time to 
actually implement this dream ;)
I don't see any use for metaclasses in making security declarations.
For me, metaclasses (like proxies) are deep and powerful magic that
should only be used when they are realy needed.
Note that this all comes from the perspective of someone whose only exposure 
to Zope 3 has been through two sprints. I've not actually tried to develop 
any sort of application using it. My day job is very firmly fixed in Zope 2, 
and isn't likely to change for a long time. So I'm definitely speaking from 
ignorance of real-world application development in Zope 3.
Fair enough.
Jim
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[Zope-dev] [Zope 2.8] Inclusion of ExtendedPathIndex?

2005-04-07 Thread Andreas Jung
I wonder if it is of public interest to include the ExtendedPathIndex from 
Plone in Zope 2.8.
It offers some the nice extension  to limit the depth of the search and 
improves building navigation-trees
or similar structures. Opinions?

Andreas 

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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope 2.8] Inclusion of ExtendedPathIndex?

2005-04-07 Thread Tres Seaver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Andreas Jung wrote:
 I wonder if it is of public interest to include the ExtendedPathIndex
 from Plone in Zope 2.8.
 It offers some the nice extension  to limit the depth of the search and
 improves building navigation-trees
 or similar structures. Opinions?

I doubt many folks on this list know the code that well.  Are you
thinking to lift the features you mention, making them part of the
regular PathIndex?   Also, what is the IP status of the code?


Tres.
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[Zope-dev] Re: SiteRoot and VHM

2005-04-07 Thread Laurence Rowe
-1 for removing it. I think it's a cool feature :-)
I like the ability to use a 'blank' SiteRoot (one with a blank base and 
path) in conjunction with an access rule to set request variables when I 
access my site in through a particular point (eg set the plone_skin 
variable when I access my site through /admin or force a particular 
language when I access my site through /language-name). This is in 
addition to using VHM and apache rewrite rules in the standard way.

I guess this could be done with more complicated rewrite rules but then 
I become dependent on accessing the site trough apache and lose some 
flexibility.

Laurence
Florent Guillaume wrote:
After spending an hour helping someone debug a site that had an hidden 
SiteRoot somewhere that prevented a virtual host monster from working, 
it was suggested to me that if there's a virtual host monster, it should 
take precedence (and deactivates) any further SiteRoot. I think it's a 
good idea.

Should I create a patch ?
Florent
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Re: [Zope-dev] [Zope 2.8] Inclusion of ExtendedPathIndex?

2005-04-07 Thread Florent Guillaume
Andreas Jung  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I wonder if it is of public interest to include the ExtendedPathIndex from 
 Plone in Zope 2.8.
 It offers some the nice extension  to limit the depth of the search and 
 improves building navigation-trees or similar structures. Opinions?

+1 if it's a separate new index (don't change the existing PathIndex).

Does it provide a way of cataloging the ordering of children? Otherwise
I don't see how you can build navigation tree using it (unless you don't
care about ordering of course).

Florent

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Re: [Zope-dev] I want Zope 2.9 to use Zope 3's security architecture.

2005-04-07 Thread Martijn Faassen
Richard Jones wrote:
[snip]
Is this a general trend for Zope 2? I'd rather see Zope 2 kinda avoid ZCML if 
possible.
The Five integration philosophy at least, is that it makes use of ZCML 
*possible* in Zope 2, but not at all mandatory. Five tries to mess with
the innards of Zope 2 as much as possible, because it's complicated 
enough to add Zope 3 to Zope 2 already; we don't want to worry about 
changing Zope 2 (or Zope 3).

Zope 2.9 has traditionally been seen as a version of Zope 2 where the 
innards *will* change to integrate deeper into Zope 3. Five's philosophy 
makes it impossible to do certain kinds of Zope 3 integration with Zope 
2, such as security in particular. Though in fact I'm surprised how much 
*is* already possible given the limitations Five has; I think that's an 
interesting finding.

Anyway, you might want to give Five a spin one day. Perhaps you'll 
change your mind about ZCML. Five introduces Zope 3 concepts more 
gradually to the Zope 2 hacker than Zope 3 itself, so it may be less 
overwhelming; Zope 3 certainly sometimes tends to overwhelm me, still.

Regards,
Martijn
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Re: [Zope-dev] [Zope 2.8] Inclusion of ExtendedPathIndex?

2005-04-07 Thread Martijn Faassen
Andreas Jung wrote:
I wonder if it is of public interest to include the ExtendedPathIndex
 from Plone in Zope 2.8. It offers some the nice extension  to limit
the depth of the search and improves building navigation-trees or
similar structures. Opinions?
While the feature sounds cool, I tend to be a bit worried about delaying 
the Zope 2.8 release with this, though of course I shouldn't shout so 
loudly as we just added in Five. Then again, we had significant numbers 
of people working on that for the biggest part of a week...

Regards,
Martijn
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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope 2.8] Inclusion of ExtendedPathIndex?

2005-04-07 Thread Andreas Jung

--On Donnerstag, 7. April 2005 8:00 Uhr -0400 Tres Seaver 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
I doubt many folks on this list know the code that well.  Are you
thinking to lift the features you mention, making them part of the
regular PathIndex?   Also, what is the IP status of the code?
It extends the PathIndex and has a different behaviour. So making the 
functionality part
of the existing PathIndex would break the exisiting behaviour therefore it 
should be included
as second path index. The license is BSD or ZPL but not GPL  :-)

Andreas

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Re: [Zope-dev] [Zope 2.8] Inclusion of ExtendedPathIndex?

2005-04-07 Thread Andreas Jung

--On Donnerstag, 7. April 2005 14:49 Uhr +0200 Martijn Faassen 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Andreas Jung wrote:
I wonder if it is of public interest to include the ExtendedPathIndex
 from Plone in Zope 2.8. It offers some the nice extension  to limit
the depth of the search and improves building navigation-trees or
similar structures. Opinions?
While the feature sounds cool, I tend to be a bit worried about delaying
the Zope 2.8 release with this,
Why delaying?
-aj

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[Zope-dev] To ZCML or not ;-)

2005-04-07 Thread Chris Withers
Richard Jones wrote:
Is this a general trend for Zope 2? I'd rather see Zope 2 kinda avoid ZCML if 
possible. It's just one of those personal preference things, I suppose, but I 
know I'm not the only one who isn't that enamored of the ZCML approach. I 
actually like having the declarations all in the python code like it is in 
Zope 2.
Am I right in thinking that the XML part of ZCML is layered over python 
functionality underneath? If so, how hard would it be to provide an
alternative to the baroque XML? - the bit of ZCML I don't like ;-)

cheers,
Chris
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Re: [Zope-dev] To ZCML or not ;-)

2005-04-07 Thread Jim Fulton
Chris Withers wrote:
Richard Jones wrote:
Is this a general trend for Zope 2? I'd rather see Zope 2 kinda avoid 
ZCML if possible. It's just one of those personal preference things, I 
suppose, but I know I'm not the only one who isn't that enamored of 
the ZCML approach. I actually like having the declarations all in the 
python code like it is in Zope 2.

Am I right in thinking that the XML part of ZCML is layered over python 
functionality underneath? If so, how hard would it be to provide an
alternative to the baroque XML? - the bit of ZCML I don't like ;-)
It's is theoretically possible, but not really worth the effort.
I'll note that ZCML has gotten progressively simpler over the years.
It continues to get simpler.  For example, now that we we can say more
about adapters in Python, a typical adapter registration looks like:
  adapter factory=.Myfactory /
Also, for various reasons, ZCML took on implementation capabilities.
We're looking at ways to move that implementation capability
back into Python, where it belongs, which will make page definition
easier.  I expect that page definitions in the future will look more
like:
  page name=foo.html class=.FooView.html permission=zope.View /
Jim
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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: SiteRoot and VHM

2005-04-07 Thread Paul Winkler
On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 12:55:09PM +0100, Laurence Rowe wrote:
 -1 for removing it. I think it's a cool feature :-)
 
 I like the ability to use a 'blank' SiteRoot (one with a blank base and 
 path) in conjunction with an access rule to set request variables when I 
 access my site in through a particular point (eg set the plone_skin 
 variable when I access my site through /admin or force a particular 
 language when I access my site through /language-name). This is in 
 addition to using VHM and apache rewrite rules in the standard way.

I'm curious, what does the SiteRoot buy you over just doing all that in 
an access rule?
 
-- 

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http://www.slinkp.com
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Re: [Zope-dev] [Zope 2.8] Inclusion of ExtendedPathIndex?

2005-04-07 Thread Martijn Faassen
Andreas Jung wrote:

--On Donnerstag, 7. April 2005 14:49 Uhr +0200 Martijn Faassen 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Andreas Jung wrote:
I wonder if it is of public interest to include the ExtendedPathIndex
 from Plone in Zope 2.8. It offers some the nice extension  to limit
the depth of the search and improves building navigation-trees or
similar structures. Opinions?

While the feature sounds cool, I tend to be a bit worried about delaying
the Zope 2.8 release with this,
 
Why delaying?
Adding any features could delay the release, right? Perhaps this one is 
really easy so it won't introduce a large risk of delay; I can't 
evaluate that.

Regards,
Martijn
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Re: [Zope-dev] [Zope 2.8] Inclusion of ExtendedPathIndex?

2005-04-07 Thread Andreas Jung

--On Donnerstag, 7. April 2005 20:15 Uhr +0200 Martijn Faassen 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Andreas Jung wrote:

--On Donnerstag, 7. April 2005 14:49 Uhr +0200 Martijn Faassen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Andreas Jung wrote:
I wonder if it is of public interest to include the ExtendedPathIndex
 from Plone in Zope 2.8. It offers some the nice extension  to limit
the depth of the search and improves building navigation-trees or
similar structures. Opinions?

While the feature sounds cool, I tend to be a bit worried about delaying
the Zope 2.8 release with this,
Why delaying?
Adding any features could delay the release, right? Perhaps this one is
really easy so it won't introduce a large risk of delay; I can't evaluate
that.
Don't worry...everything's under control :-) Except the 2.8.a2 release 
almost
all my releases where on the track.

Andreas


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[Zope-dev] Re: SiteRoot and VHM

2005-04-07 Thread Laurence Rowe
Paul Winkler wrote:
On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 12:55:09PM +0100, Laurence Rowe wrote:
-1 for removing it. I think it's a cool feature :-)
I like the ability to use a 'blank' SiteRoot (one with a blank base and 
path) in conjunction with an access rule to set request variables when I 
access my site in through a particular point (eg set the plone_skin 
variable when I access my site through /admin or force a particular 
language when I access my site through /language-name). This is in 
addition to using VHM and apache rewrite rules in the standard way.

I'm curious, what does the SiteRoot buy you over just doing all that in 
an access rule?
 
Having just read up on  REQUEST.setServerURL(SiteRootBASE) and 
REQUEST.setVirtualRoot(SiteRootPATH). I was about to say nothing at all 
- I'm just being ignorant, but it looks like the answer is actually 
'flexibility'.

From http://www.zope.org/Members/4am/SiteAccess2/vhosting

If a SiteRooted folder is ever accessed through URLs with a base or path 
that does not get rewritten to match the Base and Path of the SiteRoot, 
you should make the SiteRoot's Base and Path blank and dynamically 
create SiteRootPATH/SiteRootBASE variables. For example, if you made a 
'Zope' global-access prefix as described above, then the 'else' part 
should contain something like dtml-call REQUEST.set('SiteRootPATH', 
'/').


Without the blank site root you lose the flexibility of these methods 
working when the site is not being virtual hosted, which is quite handy 
while developing.

Laurence
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Re: [Zope-dev] To ZCML or not ;-)

2005-04-07 Thread Lennart Regebro
Richard Jones wrote:
 Is this a general trend for Zope 2? I'd rather see Zope 2 kinda avoid ZCML if
 possible. It's just one of those personal preference things, I suppose, but I
 know I'm not the only one who isn't that enamored of the ZCML approach.

ZCML started out for me (and as an experinced zope2 programmer I guess
the experience may not be that unusual) as ooh, my, lots to learn,
why is it that complex? Then it becames oh, it's a consistent way of
doing all those thinks that weren't very pythonic, like defining page
templates, and then finally I grasped it with ah, it's really the
best parts of aspect orientation; you make all these separate modules,
and you tie them together with ZCML!

Like XML or not, the approach of moving this type of meta-information
to ZCML rocks.

You know the feeling when a third party product has the wrong
permission or no permission at all on something? What are you gonna
do? Subclass: Lots of work. Patch: You gotta keep it updated. With
ZCML, you override it. TADA!
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Re: [Zope] Does anyone care whether we deprecate Your Favourite Part of Zope

2005-04-07 Thread David H
Andrew Milton wrote:
I think people on this list need to realize that eventually, the direction of
any significantly large Open Source project is hijacked by the relatively
small number of people actually doing the work.
The reasons for this are many-fold, but, normally come down to a lack of
communication between the developers and the users, which is realized in a
lack of understanding by the developers of what the users want.
This for the most part isn't generally a problem, until, the developers start
to do things for the user's own good, like remove features that are
kludgey, or a hack, or insert some other reason, which generally means
either noone wants to work on it, or some other change caused it to break, and
noone wants to fix it.
Now to the credit of the Zope guys, they actually poll the users to find out,
rather than just announce the demise of something. However, in general once 
you add a feature, you can be guaranteed, that somewhere, someone is using 
it, so removing it will always cause a problem. So there will always be an
uproar when you poll.

You're never going to be able to reduce the feature set between point
releases without upsetting some group of people. So why don't we stop all this
nonsense now, and just agree, that you're never going to do that d8) You have
Zope 3 to remove all the stuff you hate d8)
In my opinion if you change something, it's your responsibility to fix the
resulting breakage. That's part of your responsibiliity to the rest of the
community (i.e. the [mostly non-paying] customers). If you don't think you
have this responsibility to us, then you should work on your own version of
Zope, where you're not impacting anyone else.
For the record, I hate ZClasses... d8)
 

I wish Terri Shiavo had as much compassion as ZClasses.
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Re: [Zope] Does anyone care whether we deprecate Your Favourite Part of Zope

2005-04-07 Thread Phillip Hutchings
flame

What gives us the right to dictate what features these people give up
their time to work on? Sure, Zope (the company) pays some, but others
seem to do it for no direct reward, other than the Zope program.
end flame

I admire these people, I have no idea what goes through Zope, though I
might look at fixing some bugs and submitting patches to see what's
involved.

If you love the feature so much, either make it work yourself, or pay
someone to.

I do sympathise those who have spent time creating and maintaining
solutions based on ZClasses, and I hope someone comes up with a system
to export them to a product. I started with python scripts and then a
product. Basic products are simple and development can be quite fast
with refreshing turned on.
-- 
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http://www.sitharus.com/
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Zope] login system discussion

2005-04-07 Thread prabuddha ray
ok, i get it.
So what is the way to set a request form var in the python script.


On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:55:33 -0300, Jose Henrique dos Reis
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Your request.set puts 'invalid' in request/other, not in request/form.
 
 Zenrique

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Re: RES: [Zope] login system discussion

2005-04-07 Thread prabuddha ray
Ok i get it,

  please tell me the way to set a request form var in a python script

On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:55:33 -0300, Jose Henrique dos Reis
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Your request.set puts 'invalid' in request/other, not in request/form.
 
 Zenrique
 

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[Zope] request forward technique

2005-04-07 Thread prabuddha ray
From my login page I'm calling a python script for redirecting it to
seperate pages.
there if login fails i the login page is to be redirected along with
setting a hidden form field 'invalid' by '1'.
For this I've to set the request/form.invalid value so that it is
available to thelogin page.

is it possible to set the request values from a page and return them
back to the same page?

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[Zope] DateTime(), locale, summertime etc.

2005-04-07 Thread Max M
I have a product where I convert some external datetimes to zope 
DateTime() objects. I save them as UTC as zopes DateTime does by default.

But when these are rendered, the time is offset by two hours.
A few weeks ago, it wasn't that bad. It was only one hour, but then 
summertime came along ;-)

So it seems that there is some magic going on where Zope tries to take 
locale and summertime into account.

Is this configurable somewhere. In Zope, Python, as a command switch or 
in a config file?

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Re: [Zope] Does anyone care whether we deprecate Your Favourite Part of Zope

2005-04-07 Thread Garito
David H escribió:
Andrew Milton wrote:
I think people on this list need to realize that eventually, the 
direction of
any significantly large Open Source project is hijacked by the 
relatively
small number of people actually doing the work.

The reasons for this are many-fold, but, normally come down to a lack of
communication between the developers and the users, which is realized 
in a
lack of understanding by the developers of what the users want.

This for the most part isn't generally a problem, until, the 
developers start
to do things for the user's own good, like remove features that are
kludgey, or a hack, or insert some other reason, which 
generally means
either noone wants to work on it, or some other change caused it to 
break, and
noone wants to fix it.

Now to the credit of the Zope guys, they actually poll the users to 
find out,
rather than just announce the demise of something. However, in 
general once you add a feature, you can be guaranteed, that 
somewhere, someone is using it, so removing it will always cause a 
problem. So there will always be an
uproar when you poll.

You're never going to be able to reduce the feature set between point
releases without upsetting some group of people. So why don't we stop 
all this
nonsense now, and just agree, that you're never going to do that d8) 
You have
Zope 3 to remove all the stuff you hate d8)

In my opinion if you change something, it's your responsibility to 
fix the
resulting breakage. That's part of your responsibiliity to the rest 
of the
community (i.e. the [mostly non-paying] customers). If you don't 
think you
have this responsibility to us, then you should work on your own 
version of
Zope, where you're not impacting anyone else.

For the record, I hate ZClasses... d8)
 

I wish Terri Shiavo had as much compassion as ZClasses.
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Perhaps a unfortunated comment
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Re: [Zope] Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Jim Fulton
Jim Fulton wrote:
Jake wrote:
My question, since it now seems like I am not the only one using ZClasses

I doubt that that is the case.
Sorry, I missread your note.  I meant to say that I was
sure you are *not* the only one using ZClasses.
Jim
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[Zope] how to add pages to a new tab in plone

2005-04-07 Thread prabuddha ray
hope i get this through !!!

In my plone site I've added a portal_tab through portal_actions.
i've made a subfolder in my plone site root folder for it.

I gave the path in the action value field of the tabs as :
string:$portal_url/consumables

now the problem is that when i click on my tab the index_html zpt
opens seperately as a new page unlike the home tab's index page which
opens inside the plone site .

i want the pages in my tab to added as the plone site's content, not seperately.
how do i do it.

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[Zope] Re: Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Jim Fulton
Dieter Maurer wrote:
Lennart Regebro wrote at 2005-4-5 11:48 +0200:
On the Paris sprint, one thing that was noted was how ironic it was
that the release of 2.8, which includes support for the new
recommended development paradigm, was held up becuase we neeeded to
support an old non-recommended one. :-)

ZClasses feature prominently in the Zope book.
That should probably be fixed.
Seems they are more recommended than the new development paradigm (which
does not yet feature at all in the Zope book).
The new developement paradigm is featured prominantly in 2 new
books.
Jim
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[Zope] Re: Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Jim Fulton
Lennart Regebro wrote:
On the Paris sprint, one thing that was noted was how ironic it was
that the release of 2.8, which includes support for the new
recommended development paradigm, was held up becuase we neeeded to
support an old non-recommended one. :-)
It boils down to backward compatibility.  Backward compatibility
is important.  People aren't going to use our platform if it keeps
changing. in backward incompatible ways without reletively smooth
transition tools.  We can't simply drop such a critical feature
just because we don't want to maintain it.  Heck, I'd love to
drop version support from ZODB, but I'm not going to until I
can offer a replacement to the people who depend on versions
today.
Anyway, my main question is: You who are using ZClasses, can't you
just stay on Zope2.8 or 2.9, if Zope 2.10 would not contain ZClass
support? The main features of 2.8 is support for the component
architecture,
For many people, the main features of 2.8 are multi-version concurrency
control and better garbage collection.
 and for zope 2.9 and 2.10 this will be even more true:
there will most likely be very few new features besides this.
I wouldn't assume that.  People continue to do interesting things
on this platform.  In any case, if we put people in the place
where they couldn't (in a practical, rather than theoretical sense)
migrate from a particular version, then we'd have to consider
maintaining that version longer that we otherwise would, if only to
give people bug fixes (especially security fixes).
 With 2.9
or 2.10 the idea is that you can use both  ZClasses, *and* write
products that work under Zope3. I'm not even sure there will be a
2.10, and in any case you won't really have much need of it.
I'd be very surprised if there was not a Zope 2.10, or even a Zope 2.11.
Jim
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[Zope] Re: Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Jim Fulton
Andreas Jung wrote:

--On Dienstag, 5. April 2005 16:38 Uhr -0400 Jake [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

And that is probably the best arguement for keeping them around longer.

We should get to the point: if some people depend on ZClasses then they 
should
take over some responsibility in maintaining them in future releases.
Be careful here.  While there is value in deciding priorities based
on willingness of people to help.  We want people to use Zope *even*
if they can't maintain it.
It would be a huge mistake to gibe people the impression that they should only
use Zope if they are prepared to maintain it themselves.
In other words, the availability of volunteers is a good criteria for
selecting *new* features.
 It
can not be
that a feature regarded as obsolete (from the majority) and almost 
unmaintained and
untouched since  ages holds up further releases.
It is being maintained now.  I don't think we can choose not to maintain
such an important feature.  I agree that new features should only be done
of there are developers willing to do them.
 I agree with Jim that
they should be
officially deprecated - means they could be removed in Zope 2.10.
Whoa, I'm not advocating that.  I was asking if anyone cared.
I strongly suspected that there would be people who did care.
I've gotten a lot of grief because of the effort I've been putting into
getting them to work with Zope 2.8 and the effect that that has had
on the 2.8 schedule.  Many active Zope developers are (understandbly)
dismissive of ZClasses, but I think we can't ignore the many people
who depend on them.
Jim
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[Zope] Re: Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Jim Fulton
Ausum Studio wrote:
...
As for ZC,  IMHO the issue should be treated as a matter of understanding
the market rather than achieving a milestone. You created stuff that works
in some way or another that people embraced. You also changed your company
name to the name of the product of yours that people embraced. And no matter
how much hype there is on new trends, you should realize that a song is just
a song until the market say it's a hit, and that X3 is that song. Shall you
start to put Zope2 into pieces before getting to know you already have a
hit?  :)
Well said. I couldn't agree more.  That's why ZC continues to
spend lots of time maintaining and enhancing Zope 2.  It's why I
see many Zope 2 releases ahead and why, every time I speak to
large groups of people, I tell people not to feel a need to
rush to Zope 3.  There is absolutely no intention to make the
mistakes of other projects to have an untested new version
replace an established new version prematurely.
Jim
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[Zope] Re: Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Jim Fulton
Jonathan Cyr wrote:
Yoohoo,
ZClasses are not an expert technology to use, they are an introduction 
to Zope... Just because I use a thing, doesn't mean I can 
support/maintain a thing. 
Exactly.  I want you to use Zope even if you aren't in a position to 
maintain
it yourself.
 I can read the list, and try to help folks
with questions that I've experienced... that's the support that can be 
offered at my skill level.
Which is extremely valuable.
If that's not enough... fine...  drop ZClasses, then DTML (you know, its 
next)... and all the folks in this boat with me.
(There are no plans to deprecate DTML.  It is even supported in Zope 3.)
ZC should decide whether the benefits of ZClasses for low-end developers 
match against the hurdles to keeping it with the newer Zope releases.  
If they don't see a need for this skill-level type of tool in Zope's 
feature list, they will pay down the road... Growth is king, even for 
Zope, who grew this platform?  Growth means newbies, right?  What 
elements got Zope to where it is?  Could ZClasses be on that list?  Why?
Vey well said.  I think this is, but should not be underestimated.
This is something I think about a lot.  I think Zope needs to support
developers and non developers.  Zope 2 was weak in supporting developers.
Over the years, new techniques and technologies have evolved to make
Zope development better for proffessional developers, but we still
need the non-developers.
And seeing comments like...
- Move to Zope Python Products - you cant see the skill differences 
between OOP  Zope's API vs. ZClasses

- Use the Archetypes/CMF/Plone setup - UML training? the CMF API and 
Plone underpinnings, easy?

- Maintain it yourself then - Update very slick code within Zope's 
flexible and aging API, with ZODB API too?  Maintain it...Yeah sure, 
hows this afternoon.

... just show me how under-represented that beginner and intermediate 
Zope developers use this list... and then I think, perhaps there aren't 
any, just me and a few others... and if that's the case, Zope's screwed, 
and the horse I rode in on.
:)
This list is for you.  While you shouldn't have to maintain Zope yourself,
you *do* need to be vocal about what you want.
(Of course, at some point,  work needs to get paid for. If someone wants
 a new feature that the developers don't want to develop out of the
 goodness of their hearts or even an old feature that no one wants to
 maintain, someone may have to be willing to fund some development.
 I'm not asking for this in this case.)
And so here's the confession... Hello, I'm Jon... I've used Zope for 2 
years, and I can't help others program high-level Python OOP 
tools/platform resources in a propriety web content management server.  
I only can support their efforts when the occasional mailing list 
opportunities present themselves.
And that support is greatly appreciated!
Jim
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[Zope] Re: Does anyone care whether we deprecate Your Favourite Part of Zope

2005-04-07 Thread Jim Fulton
Well said.
I mostly agree, however, there needs to be a balance.  We are
introducing a process for orderly deprecation of features. I hope
it works.  It's mainly useful for changes that are straightforward
to recover from.  We have to balance lots of different factors
taking into account *everybodies* interests, the best we can
*together*.
Jim
Andrew Milton wrote:
I think people on this list need to realize that eventually, the direction of
any significantly large Open Source project is hijacked by the relatively
small number of people actually doing the work.
The reasons for this are many-fold, but, normally come down to a lack of
communication between the developers and the users, which is realized in a
lack of understanding by the developers of what the users want.
This for the most part isn't generally a problem, until, the developers start
to do things for the user's own good, like remove features that are
kludgey, or a hack, or insert some other reason, which generally means
either noone wants to work on it, or some other change caused it to break, and
noone wants to fix it.
Now to the credit of the Zope guys, they actually poll the users to find out,
rather than just announce the demise of something. However, in general once 
you add a feature, you can be guaranteed, that somewhere, someone is using 
it, so removing it will always cause a problem. So there will always be an
uproar when you poll.

You're never going to be able to reduce the feature set between point
releases without upsetting some group of people. So why don't we stop all this
nonsense now, and just agree, that you're never going to do that d8) You have
Zope 3 to remove all the stuff you hate d8)
In my opinion if you change something, it's your responsibility to fix the
resulting breakage. That's part of your responsibiliity to the rest of the
community (i.e. the [mostly non-paying] customers). If you don't think you
have this responsibility to us, then you should work on your own version of
Zope, where you're not impacting anyone else.
For the record, I hate ZClasses... d8)

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[Zope] Re: DateTime(), locale, summertime etc.

2005-04-07 Thread Max M
Max M wrote:
I have a product where I convert some external datetimes to zope 
DateTime() objects. I save them as UTC as zopes DateTime does by default.

But when these are rendered, the time is offset by two hours.

Ok. I was unclear here.
I convert from datetime objects (python) to DateTime (zope) objects.
The datetime objects are in UTC format. So are the DateTime objects.
On an external system I enter a time of 11:00. The external system then 
saves the value as 9:00 UTC, which is correct. Taking summertime and 
time zone offset into account.

When I convert to DateTime objects, they are saved as 9:00 Universal. 
So that is correct too.

The DateTime objects are then displayed in Zope/Plone in UTC time.
I would expect Zope to represent them in the systems locale 'danish' and 
display them as 11:00

I have set the locale danish directive in my zope.conf, but that 
doens't change anything.

Does anybody have an idea as to what to try out next?
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[Zope] how to store ZSQL query results in a python var

2005-04-07 Thread prabuddha ray
from a newbie,
i've this ZSQLmethod returning me a string  only. how do i
store it a var in my python script.
eg., userlevel = container.getUserLevel(uname=user)

when i print it using html_quote as : 
   print (%s) % html_quote(userlevel)
return printed
output is :
 (lt;Shared.DC.ZRDB.Results.Results instance at 0x41dd966cgt;)

please help.
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Re: [Zope] how to store ZSQL query results in a python var

2005-04-07 Thread Andreas Jung

--On Donnerstag, 7. April 2005 4:10 Uhr -0700 prabuddha ray 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

from a newbie,
i've this ZSQLmethod returning me a string  only. how do i
store it a var in my python script.
eg., userlevel = container.getUserLevel(uname=user)
when i print it using html_quote as :
   print (%s) % html_quote(userlevel)
return printed
output is :
 (lt;Shared.DC.ZRDB.Results.Results instance at 0x41dd966cgt;)
The RDBMS chapter of the Zope Book that call a ZSQL method returns
something that behaves like a list of rows. That's what you see when
you look at the output. Accessing and working with ZSQL methods
is carefully described in the Zope Book (2.7 edition) - isn't it?
-aj

pgpNpZ3Jmigbo.pgp
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Re: [Zope] how to store ZSQL query results in a python var

2005-04-07 Thread Tino Wildenhain
Am Donnerstag, den 07.04.2005, 04:10 -0700 schrieb prabuddha ray:
 from a newbie,
 i've this ZSQLmethod returning me a string  only. how do i
 store it a var in my python script.
 eg., userlevel = container.getUserLevel(uname=user)
 
 when i print it using html_quote as : 
print (%s) % html_quote(userlevel)
 return printed
 output is :
  (lt;Shared.DC.ZRDB.Results.Results instance at 0x41dd966cgt;)
 
 please help.

Well, ZSQL Methods always return result sets, never strings.
The restult set is an object which works similar to a list
with result objects, each result object having attributes
which correspond to column names of your query.

The result objects have a method dictionaries() which in fact
return the data as regular list with dictionaries for the
rows (easier to look at if you see their string representation)

so what you probably want goes like this:

result=container.getUserLevel(uname=user)
if result:
userlevel=result[0].userlevel
else:
userlevel=somedefault # or raise error or whatnot

the if result: idiom handles the fact the query might not
return any result. It is true however if you get at least one
row. result[0] addresses the very first row of the result
- which must exist in a non empty result set.

HTH
Tino 

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[Zope] browsing server filesystem

2005-04-07 Thread Fabio Marcone
Hi!
I need to browse (from a client) server file system.

Does exist a zope object to do that?
or, how can I do it? (I think external method in python, isn't it?)

Thanks,
Fabio
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Re: [Zope] Re: Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Jake
Jim Fulton said:
 (There are no plans to deprecate DTML.  It is even supported in Zope 3.)

That is the best news I have heard all day (although, it is early).

Jake

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Re: [Zope] Re: Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Chris Withers
Jake wrote:
Jim Fulton said:
(There are no plans to deprecate DTML.  It is even supported in Zope 3.)
That is the best news I have heard all day (although, it is early).
I will be selling black flags for the mourning of a missed opportunity...
Chris
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Re: [Zope] Re: Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Chris Withers
Jim Fulton wrote:
I've gotten a lot of grief because of the effort I've been putting into
getting them to work with Zope 2.8 and the effect that that has had
on the 2.8 schedule.  Many active Zope developers are (understandbly)
dismissive of ZClasses, but I think we can't ignore the many people
who depend on them.
I think this course of action leads to misinforming new users that 
ZClasses are a good thing. If ZClasses really must stay around, then 
put them in a big box labelled some people like these, but the 
community as a whole recommends against them, which seems to be the 
consensus here.

I think ZPT and python scripts are much more useful tools for newbies 
who will often enter with a scripting rather than OO frame of mind.

cheers,
Chris
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Re: [Zope] how to instantiate an External Method

2005-04-07 Thread Chris Withers
Wladmir Araujo Chapetta wrote:
How can i instantiate a external method within my Container Product? 
Tell us why you think you need to first...
Chris
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Re: [Zope] browsing server filesystem

2005-04-07 Thread Chris Withers
Fabio Marcone wrote:
Does exist a zope object to do that?
Google for LocalFS.
cheers,
Chris
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Re: [Zope] Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Stephan Richter
On Wednesday 06 April 2005 16:52, Dieter Maurer wrote:
 For new projects, you should investigate the new options.
 Product development will get much simpler with Zope3 technology
 (and its schemas and views). Currently, there is no TTW
 (Through The Web) development in Zope3 land, but that is planned.
 In about 2 to 4 years, we may have new ZClass like
 functionality implemented with Zope3 technology.
 And I am quite confident that the old ZClasses will live til
 then...

Note that I prototyped such functionality a couple years ago. One could create 
TTW (Persistent) schemas and then declare a Content Component Definition 
based on this schema. People could then create instances of those content 
components. The Content Component Definition utility took care of doing all 
the security and basic menu/view setup. One can then write views and adapters 
for the content component to give it functionality.

Unfortunately, persistent schemas got broken at some point, so the code is not 
that useful anymore. I really need to get together with Jim and force him to 
fix the problem with me, since I constantly forget what the problem is. ;-)

Regards,
Stephan
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CBU Physics  Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student)
Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training
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[Zope] Re: Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Max M
Chris Withers wrote:
Jim Fulton wrote:

I think ZPT and python scripts are much more useful tools for newbies 
who will often enter with a scripting rather than OO frame of mind.
Wouldn't that be ZPT and adapters ;-)
--
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http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science
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Re: [Zope] Re: login page problem

2005-04-07 Thread Chris Withers
Dieter Maurer wrote:
I is just that with exUserFolder, there is a management page
where you configure the parameters for the user cache -- that's all
of it. No special Python Scripts, no association with a RAMCacheManager,
no headache with invalidation (after user object changes through the API)...
Yes, and the implementation was mostly barroque rubbish last time I 
looked at XUF.

I believe in re-using lots of simple compments to build complex 
applications. I hate to see loads of common concepts like caching, 
sessions, cookie-management and rdb interaction re-implemented in 
non-reusable ways so many times...

cheers,
Chris
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Re: [Zope] Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Yuri

Re: [Zope] Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses? To: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: zope@zope.org Message-ID: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: 
text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jonathan Cyr wrote at 2005-4-6 16:06 -0400:

... just show me how under-represented that beginner and intermediate 
Zope developers use this list... and then I think, perhaps there aren't 
any, just me and a few others... and if that's the case, Zope's screwed, 
and the horse I rode in on.
   

Do not worry too much!
Jim proposed to keep ZClasses alive until (at least) Zope 2.10.
And he asks whether there is enough interest to keep them longer...
 

[...]
In fact, I have had ten times more problems with Archetypes (which
I use now) than with ZClasses (which I used formerly).
Isn't Archetypes only for Plone?
I mean, Plone is a very good *application* but I don't want to be 
locked on it.

Just release a way to convert a Zclass to a Python Product (at least 
for the simplest ZClasses...).

I'm stil stuck on convert that damn base class CatalogAware to 
CatalogPathAware, just to name something (CatalogAware) which is still 
there for no reason... :)
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Re: [Zope] Re: Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Chris,
Chris Withers wrote:
(There are no plans to deprecate DTML.  It is even supported in Zope 3.)
That is the best news I have heard all day (although, it is early).
I will be selling black flags for the mourning of a missed opportunity...
With or without a circled A?
;-)
--
Regards,
PhilK
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / Voicemail  Facsimile: 07092 070518
it's very hard to talk quantum using a language originally
designed to tell other monkeys where the ripe fruit is
- Lu-Tze
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Re: [Zope] Re: login page problem

2005-04-07 Thread Chris Withers
Dieter Maurer wrote:
exUserFolder has built in caching (positive and negative caches),
Dunno what that means, but SUF supports caching via standard 
RAMCacheManagers
That sounds very strange: user objects cached in a RAMCacheManager...
Why? How does that memory-based cache differ in concept from the one 
inside XUF? ;-)

or ZSQL method caching.
They cannot be controlled (therefore, I developped CCSQLMethods),
thus, bad luck when you changed a user...
Sorry, not enough info to be a useful comment. I think this boils down 
to CCSQLMethods have better caching that ZSQL Methods, in which case, 
great, use CCSQLMethods instead, SUF is agnostic to what type of 
callable object you use to implement any of the things that need 
implementing. This comes back to the point I made in my other mail: 
allow people to switch in better components as they become available, 
don't tie them to your own duplicate implementation ;-)

What does that entail? SUF should quite happilly replace the userfolder 
in a CMF site...
Maybe, you look at exUserFolder more closely.
I'd really rather not ;-)
The true reason for this suggestion: I, too, do not know it.
It is just a configuration option (that I did not need and therefore
investigate).
That sounds like most of XUF to me. With SUF you start with something 
simple and add what you need, with XUF, you start with something complex 
and get scared by the millions of config options until you finally 
figure out what to turn off. Heh, I guess this is also why I feel the 
way I do about Plone ;-)

Well, SUF does, although I don't know if I ever released that version 
due to broken zope.org, it's available to whoever asks for it though...
That's bad for SUF.
*shrugs* I'll get simplistix.co.uk to a point where I can release code 
there at some stage...

This feature was essential for us.
I looked at SUF and exUserFolder -- and chose exUserFolder
as it better matched our requirements.
I'm happy to send you the latest SUF if you're interesteed :-)
cheers,
Chris
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Re: [Zope] Product creation difficulty

2005-04-07 Thread Chris Withers
(keep replies on the list, more people can help that way)
Pete Taylor wrote:
thanks man.  doing it that way has cleared up the security problem.  i've
run into others trying to access xml-rpc methods remotely (zope keeps
passing the __roles__ checks back to the xmlrpc server, which says i don't
know what you're talking about, etc)
You'd have to give us more information if you want help with that, it 
sounds like something bizarre is happening that shouldn't ;-)

cheers,
Chris
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Re: [Zope] Re: Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Florent Guillaume
Chris Withers  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Jake wrote:
  Jim Fulton said:
  
 (There are no plans to deprecate DTML.  It is even supported in Zope 3.)
  
  That is the best news I have heard all day (although, it is early).
 
 I will be selling black flags for the mourning of a missed opportunity...

DTML is very nice for some things. And for beginners.

Only the magic namespaces of DTML are bad, and those are gone in Zope 3.

Florent

-- 
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+33 1 40 33 71 59   http://nuxeo.com   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[Zope] Re: DateTime(), locale, summertime etc.

2005-04-07 Thread Max M
Max M wrote:
When I convert to DateTime objects, they are saved as 9:00 Universal. 
So that is correct too.
Ok. Turned out that I have misunderstood zopes DateTime().
It saves in UTC, but it still needs a timezone.
So converting datetime objects to the local timezone and then converting 
to DateTime objects also as local timezone did the trick.

hmmm
--
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http://www.mxm.dk/
IT's Mad Science
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Re: [Zope] Re: Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Jim Fulton
Florent Guillaume wrote:
Chris Withers  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jake wrote:
Jim Fulton said:

(There are no plans to deprecate DTML.  It is even supported in Zope 3.)
That is the best news I have heard all day (although, it is early).
I will be selling black flags for the mourning of a missed opportunity...

DTML is very nice for some things. And for beginners.
Only the magic namespaces of DTML are bad, and those are gone in Zope 3.
I wish they were gone, but they are still there.
Someday, I'd like to se a TALES-based DTML, but I doubt
I'll ever have time to do it.
Jim
--
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RE: [Zope] Product creation difficulty

2005-04-07 Thread Pete Taylor
*grin*
true enough.

at its simplest level, I've been trying to just import xmlrpclib and use it
normally in scripts.  I used my __init__.py to allow_module('xmlrpclib'),
which has stopped it from throwing security errors.  however, when I
actually run a test script, I get the following:

Error Type: Fault
Error Value: Fault 1: 'exceptions.Exception:method
echo.__roles__.__contains__ is not supported'

error_log has this traceback:
Traceback (innermost last):
  Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 101, in publish
  Module ZPublisher.mapply, line 88, in mapply
  Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 39, in call_object
  Module Shared.DC.Scripts.Bindings, line 306, in __call__
  Module Shared.DC.Scripts.Bindings, line 343, in _bindAndExec
  Module Products.PythonScripts.PythonScript, line 323, in _exec
  Module None, line 5, in testXRPC
   - PythonScript at /pro4/testXRPC
   - Line 5
  Module xmlrpclib, line 1029, in __call__
  Module xmlrpclib, line 1316, in __request
  Module xmlrpclib, line 1080, in request
  Module xmlrpclib, line 1219, in _parse_response
  Module xmlrpclib, line 742, in close
Fault: Fault 1: 'exceptions.Exception:method echo.__roles__.__contains__
is not supported'

I can watch the POST /RPC2 messages increment on my xml-rpc server, so I
know the message is getting through.  but the xmlrpc server isn't built with
Zope in mind, so __roles__.__contains__ makes it cough a Fault back at me.


the code I have in the python script is as simple as:

code
import xmlrpclib
server = xmlrpclib.ServerProxy(http://localhost:;)
server.echo('this is a test')
/code

echo just sends the recieved string back.  it works from command line, but
that's not surprising...  I could be wrong about where or how it's failing,
but the traceback looks like the message is getting there, and returning
with the echo method having been wrapped in a zope security check, thus
faulting at the server...

Thanks for any help...  this list is the best I've participated in.  You
guys are awesome.

-Original Message-
From: Chris Withers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 8:35 AM
To: Pete Taylor; zope@zope.org
Subject: Re: [Zope] Product creation difficulty


(keep replies on the list, more people can help that way)

Pete Taylor wrote:

 thanks man.  doing it that way has cleared up the security problem.  i've
 run into others trying to access xml-rpc methods remotely (zope keeps
 passing the __roles__ checks back to the xmlrpc server, which says i
don't
 know what you're talking about, etc)

You'd have to give us more information if you want help with that, it 
sounds like something bizarre is happening that shouldn't ;-)

cheers,

Chris

-- 
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[Zope] Re: Product creation difficulty

2005-04-07 Thread Michael Haubenwallner
Pete Taylor wrote:
*grin*
true enough.
at its simplest level, I've been trying to just import xmlrpclib and use it
normally in scripts.  
http://www.zope.org/Members/EIONET/XMLRPC
the product lets you call remote xmlrpc and other zope servers
(here is a patch if you need zope authentication too: 
http://webforce.at/Members/d2m/HowTos/2004041801)

Michael
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Re: [Zope] Re: DateTime(), locale, summertime etc.

2005-04-07 Thread Paul Winkler
On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 02:44:38PM +0200, Max M wrote:
 Max M wrote:
 
 When I convert to DateTime objects, they are saved as 9:00 Universal. 
 So that is correct too.
 
 Ok. Turned out that I have misunderstood zopes DateTime().
 
 It saves in UTC, but it still needs a timezone.
 
 So converting datetime objects to the local timezone and then converting 
 to DateTime objects also as local timezone did the trick.
 
 hmmm

Maybe this is relevant:
http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/325

... crap, I never merged the fix. 
I should really make it a habit to read the CMF issues nag mail :-0

-- 

Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
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[Zope] TAL/SQL Problem

2005-04-07 Thread Phil Beardmore
Hi, hope you can help.
We are currently linking a webpage to an SQL database and are pulling in 
information via the tal:replace function.  This is working extremely 
well however one of our SQL fields is comma deliminated, and we want it 
to appear as a list.  We have accomplished this by using the following code:

h1Interests/h1
tal:x define=test2 result/interests
  repeat=id python:interests.split(',')
 pa href=
tal:attributes=href string:detail_html?id=$id
tal:content=result/interests
Interests goes here/a/p
/tal:x
This works well, and each item of text is displayed as a list item.  
Only problem we have, is we want to be able to display the SQL text as 
the link name, but instead each link has the same link text which is the 
whole of the SQL string.

E.g.  The text in the interests field is:  Swimming,Badminton,Ice Hockey 
detail_html?id=Swimming

The code seperates the text via the comma, and displays a list item for 
each activity.  Only problem is, the link text for each activity is the 
same (Swimming,Badminton,Ice Hockey detail_html?id=Swimming).  Anyone 
got any ideas?

Hope you can understand what I am after.  An example page is at:
http://lash.sunderland.ac.uk/business/organisationandstaff/test/detail_html?id=10
Thanks
Phil
begin:vcard
fn:Phil Beardmore
n:Beardmore;Phil
org:University of Sunderland;Sunderland Business School
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Senior IT/Network Technician
tel;work:0191 515 3436
tel;cell:07766805820
version:2.1
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Re: [Zope] TAL/SQL Problem

2005-04-07 Thread Madhavi Chaganti
use tal:content=id instead of result/interests
Phil Beardmore wrote:
Hi, hope you can help.
We are currently linking a webpage to an SQL database and are pulling 
in information via the tal:replace function.  This is working 
extremely well however one of our SQL fields is comma deliminated, and 
we want it to appear as a list.  We have accomplished this by using 
the following code:

h1Interests/h1
tal:x define=test2 result/interests
  repeat=id python:interests.split(',')
 pa href=
tal:attributes=href string:detail_html?id=$id
tal:content=result/interests
Interests goes here/a/p
/tal:x
This works well, and each item of text is displayed as a list item.  
Only problem we have, is we want to be able to display the SQL text as 
the link name, but instead each link has the same link text which is 
the whole of the SQL string.

E.g.  The text in the interests field is:  Swimming,Badminton,Ice 
Hockey detail_html?id=Swimming

The code seperates the text via the comma, and displays a list item 
for each activity.  Only problem is, the link text for each activity 
is the same (Swimming,Badminton,Ice Hockey 
detail_html?id=Swimming).  Anyone got any ideas?

Hope you can understand what I am after.  An example page is at:
http://lash.sunderland.ac.uk/business/organisationandstaff/test/detail_html?id=10 

Thanks
Phil
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Re: [Zope] TAL/SQL Problem

2005-04-07 Thread Barry Pederson
Phil Beardmore wrote:
 Hi, hope you can help.
 
 We are currently linking a webpage to an SQL database and are pulling in
 information via the tal:replace function.  This is working extremely
 well however one of our SQL fields is comma deliminated, and we want it
 to appear as a list.  We have accomplished this by using the following
 code:
 
 h1Interests/h1
 
 tal:x define=test2 result/interests
   repeat=id python:interests.split(',')
  pa href=
 tal:attributes=href string:detail_html?id=$id
 tal:content=result/interests
Interests goes here/a/p
 /tal:x
 
 This works well, and each item of text is displayed as a list item. 
 Only problem we have, is we want to be able to display the SQL text as
 the link name, but instead each link has the same link text which is the
 whole of the SQL string.
 
 E.g.  The text in the interests field is:  Swimming,Badminton,Ice Hockey
 detail_html?id=Swimming
 
 The code seperates the text via the comma, and displays a list item for
 each activity.  Only problem is, the link text for each activity is the
 same (Swimming,Badminton,Ice Hockey detail_html?id=Swimming).  Anyone
 got any ideas?
 
 Hope you can understand what I am after.  An example page is at:
 
 http://lash.sunderland.ac.uk/business/organisationandstaff/test/detail_html?id=10
 
 
 Thanks
 Phil

In the a tag, instead of

 tal:content=result/interests

shouldn't it be

 tal:content=id

---

Barry
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Re: [Zope] Re: Does anyone care whether we deprecate Your Favourite Part of Zope

2005-04-07 Thread Andrew Milton
+---[ Jim Fulton ]--
| Well said.
| 
| I mostly agree, however, there needs to be a balance.  We are
| introducing a process for orderly deprecation of features. I hope
| it works.  It's mainly useful for changes that are straightforward
| to recover from.  We have to balance lots of different factors
| taking into account *everybodies* interests, the best we can
| *together*.

Indeed. You would probably reach more people via the zope.org website, 
than via the mailing list. That would give you a bigger value of everybody. 

Perhaps a questionnaire or survey arrangement, so you can find out how people
are using Zope. You could release it quarterly or six-monthly or something so 
you can see how things are trending over time.

This would allow you to gauge the size of subsets of the community and to
predict the likely fallout of removing something d8) You could also get better
understanding of other data, e.g. what platforms zope is running on in what
numbers, as opposed to just the raw download statistics.

At the very least you could find out their interests d8)

Perhaps it's something one of the non-ZC sites would want to host?

-- 
Andrew Milton
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Zope] TAL/SQL Problem

2005-04-07 Thread Philip Beardmore
Thanks to both Barry and Madhavi for the solution.  Works great guys!

Ta

- Original Message -
From: Barry Pederson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thursday, April 7, 2005 4:38 pm
Subject: Re: [Zope] TAL/SQL Problem

 Phil Beardmore wrote:
  Hi, hope you can help.
  
  We are currently linking a webpage to an SQL database and are 
 pulling in
  information via the tal:replace function.  This is working extremely
  well however one of our SQL fields is comma deliminated, and we 
 want it
  to appear as a list.  We have accomplished this by using the 
 following code:
  
  h1Interests/h1
  
  tal:x define=test2 result/interests
repeat=id python:interests.split(',')
   p tal:attributes=href string:detail_html?id=$id
  tal:content=result/interests
 Interests goes here/p
  /tal:x
  
  This works well, and each item of text is displayed as a list 
 item. 
  Only problem we have, is we want to be able to display the SQL 
 text as
  the link name, but instead each link has the same link text which 
 is the
  whole of the SQL string.
  
  E.g.  The text in the interests field is:  Swimming,Badminton,Ice 
 Hockey detail_html?id=Swimming
  
  The code seperates the text via the comma, and displays a list 
 item for
  each activity.  Only problem is, the link text for each activity 
 is the
  same (Swimming,Badminton,Ice Hockey detail_html?id=Swimming).  
 Anyone got any ideas?
  
  Hope you can understand what I am after.  An example page is at:
  
  

http://lash.sunderland.ac.uk/business/organisationandstaff/test/detail_html?id=10

  
  Thanks
  Phil
 
 In the a tag, instead of
 
 tal:content=result/interests
 
 shouldn't it be
 
 tal:content=id
 
 ---
 
   Barry
 
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Re: [Zope] Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Jonathan Cyr




Thank You for giving me a
timeframe for this stuff. 4 to 6 years is indeed a long time. That
would, in effect triple the lifespan of my project, and be far more
reasonable.

It was the "yeah, dump it today" remarks that set me off. These
remarks are shortsighted at best, and harmful to Zope's PR at worst.

Thanks for the response, I will contribute where I can.

-Jon







Dieter Maurer wrote:

  Jonathan Cyr wrote at 2005-4-6 16:06 -0400:
  
  
... just show me how under-represented that beginner and intermediate 
Zope developers use this list... and then I think, perhaps there aren't 
any, just me and a few others... and if that's the case, Zope's screwed, 
and the horse I rode in on.

  
  
Do not worry too much!

Jim proposed to keep ZClasses alive until (at least) Zope 2.10.
And he asks whether there is enough interest to keep them longer...

If the Zope 2 releases progress in the same speed seen recently,
then Zope 2.10 will come in 4 to 6 years. That's a lot of time.
Of course, it is planned that future release cycles are much shorter
(one release every 6 months) but I do not yet buy that this will
indeed happen. Almost all releases were planned much earlier
than they happened.


And, we can keep ZClasses alive, at least until the next major
"Persistency" shakeup (after Jim made them working again for
the current "Persistency" shakeup) -- even when they are no longer
in the core.


In fact, I have had ten times more problems with Archetypes (which
I use now) than with ZClasses (which I used formerly).
It is true (and sad) that there are no unit tests for ZClasses
but ZClasses just broke twice in the past across releases
and the community quickly found
workarounds. These fixes were found much faster than those
for the security problems which were introduced from time to
time into Zope through security shakeups -- despite the fact
that there are unit tests for the security subsystem.


Thus, the right approach (in my view) is that all users
of ZClasses tell Jim, that ZClasses are used and interesting.
ZClasses may nevertheless get deprecated but probably kept
longer then Zope 2.10 unless they cause major problems.


For new projects, you should investigate the new options.
Product development will get much simpler with Zope3 technology
(and its schemas and views). Currently, there is no TTW
("Through The Web") development in Zope3 land, but that is planned.
In about 2 to 4 years, we may have new ZClass like
functionality implemented with Zope3 technology.
And I am quite confident that the old ZClasses will live til
then...


  
  
And so here's the confession... "Hello, I'm Jon... I've used Zope for 2 
years, and I can't help others program high-level Python OOP 
tools/platform resources in a propriety web content management server.  
I only can support their efforts when the occasional mailing list 
opportunities present themselves."

  
  
That's fine. Continue with this support!


Do not worry too much about ZClasses. They will stay
for a significant time because Jim plans to take the next
major hurdle (thank you, Jim!).
After that, probably only small changes will
be necessary -- as in the past. We, the ZClass users, can
manage these minor changes -- as we did in the past.

  



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Re: [Zope] login system discussion

2005-04-07 Thread Dieter Maurer
prabuddha ray wrote at 2005-4-6 23:17 -0700:
So what is the way to set a request form var in the python script.

Please read the Zope Book -- carefully!

You should find a section explaining the request object,
its API (especially its set method) and its essential attributes
form, cookies, other and environ.


-- 
Dieter
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Re: [Zope] Re: Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Dieter Maurer
Chris Withers wrote at 2005-4-7 13:22 +0100:
 ...
but the 
community as a whole recommends against them, which seems to be the 
consensus here.

A funny definition of consensus...

It may be the majority opinion but it definitely is not consensus...

-- 
Dieter
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[Zope] Re: Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Dieter Maurer
Jim Fulton wrote at 2005-4-7 05:50 -0400:
Dieter Maurer wrote:
 ...
 ZClasses feature prominently in the Zope book.

That should probably be fixed.

 Seems they are more recommended than the new development paradigm (which
 does not yet feature at all in the Zope book).

The new developement paradigm is featured prominantly in 2 new
books.

When will they feature in *the* Zope Book?

There are Zope beginners that will not start with a Zope3 book --
at least not yet.

-- 
Dieter
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Re: [Zope] Re: login page problem

2005-04-07 Thread Dieter Maurer
Chris Withers wrote at 2005-4-7 13:29 +0100:
 ...
I believe in re-using lots of simple compments to build complex 
applications. I hate to see loads of common concepts like caching, 
sessions, cookie-management and rdb interaction re-implemented in 
non-reusable ways so many times...

You are probably right  -- but SimpleUserFolder is really simple (which
sometimes is good).

Had *you* used all these reusable components to provide the functionality
in SUF, standard users could have used then out of the box -- with just
sumitting a configuration page. As it is now, they have to think
about (e.g.) cache management and invalidation.


I would like to stress that I do not think SUF were bad.
I just defend my statement that exUserFolder is something
like a big brother to SUF.

Simple is beautiful, if it meats the given requirements...

-- 
Dieter
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Re: [Zope] Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Dieter Maurer
Yuri wrote at 2005-4-7 14:30 +0200:
 ...
 Isn't Archetypes only for Plone?

No, it can be used with pure CMF...
... if one is ready to fix a few Plone dependencies that creep
in in most Archetype releases.

 ...
 Just release a way to convert a Zclass to a Python Product (at least 
for the simplest ZClasses...).

Unfortunaltely, even the most elementary things are missing:

  PropertySheet are one of the most essential parts of ZClasses --
  and they can be extended later and all ZInstances see the changes.

  PropertySheets are available for non ZClasses as well.
  But, this code is even less maintained than ZClasses and
  utterly broken.
  
  When I used them for a Python product, I had to fight for two
  days and had to heavily modify Zope code to get them working.

  I submitted a patch to the Zope collector but I had removed
  one bit of black magic too much -- and other products broke that
  were dependent on this magic.
  My patch which were already integrated into the Zope sources
  were reverted and never considered again (though I provided a
  correction)
  Thus, PropertySheets are still utterly broken (outside of
  our private Zope copy).

 I'm stil stuck on convert that damn base class CatalogAware to 
CatalogPathAware, just to name something (CatalogAware) which is still 
there for no reason... :)

One of my first steps in Zope land was to put Zope
in cvs and fix whatever I considered broken.

Maintaining one's private Zope version in a revision control
system allows to fix bugs without loosing the ability to
upgrade to new public versions (and semi automatically
have the own modifications merged in).


-- 
Dieter
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Re: [Zope] Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Andreas Pakulat
On 07.Apr 2005 - 20:13:58, Dieter Maurer wrote:
 Yuri wrote at 2005-4-7 14:30 +0200:
  ...
  Isn't Archetypes only for Plone?
 
 No, it can be used with pure CMF...
 ... if one is ready to fix a few Plone dependencies that creep
 in in most Archetype releases.
 
  ...
  Just release a way to convert a Zclass to a Python Product (at least 
 for the simplest ZClasses...).
 
 Unfortunaltely, even the most elementary things are missing:
 
   PropertySheet are one of the most essential parts of ZClasses --
   and they can be extended later and all ZInstances see the changes.
 
   PropertySheets are available for non ZClasses as well.
   But, this code is even less maintained than ZClasses and
   utterly broken.

Hmm, could you (just for my own interest) point out the difference
between PropertySheets and ProperyManager (which I used to define
properies for my own product-classes)? IIRC PropertySheets allow to
have multiple groups of properties on the same Object, but is there
more?

Andreas

-- 
Write yourself a threatening letter and pen a defiant reply. 
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Re: [Zope] Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Ausum Studio
- Original Message - 
From: Dieter Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(...)
   I submitted a patch to the Zope collector but I had removed
   one bit of black magic too much -- and other products broke that
   were dependent on this magic.
   My patch which were already integrated into the Zope sources
   were reverted and never considered again (though I provided a
   correction)
   Thus, PropertySheets are still utterly broken (outside of
   our private Zope copy).

If that's what it takes to try a ZClasses-PythonProduct converter, then my
logic tells me core maintainers should allow that patch to find it's way to
the official release.
Did I miss something regarding the calls to help? Because if that happens to
Dieter's willingness, then what would happen to ours?  ;)


Ausum
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[Zope] Re: Potential PythonScript bug

2005-04-07 Thread Ira Sher
Chris,
absolutely right. I got confused and misinterpreted a behavior I was
getting with crashes. I was finding that the Zope instance would fail
if I didn't have certain files that were in the 2.7.5 Products folder
duped in the instance dir...but as it turned out, it all boiled down
to a single product--ZCatalog--that I've now placed an older (2.5.1)
version of in the instance Products dir (I get a documentToKeyMap
error otherwise). With just that product duped (or not duped, but with
the older version replacing the newer one in the 2.7.5 Products
folder), everything works fine--no more errors looping catalog
requests.

I suppose this is odd behavior in itself--I'm pleased the site works
again, but I am a bit concerned it can only go forward relying on an
earlier version on a product--does this matter if only the instance
relies on the use of that Product (ie, if I don't actually swap it out
of the 2.7.5 installation itself, but only duplicate it in this
instance)?

thanks for your help
ira

On Apr 5, 2005 3:56 AM, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Ira Sher wrote:
 
  migrated out since then, PluginIndexes and ZCTextIndex I can't grab
 
 These both ship as part of Zope, you shouldn't even by trying to install
 them!
 
 cheers,
 
 Chris
 
 --
 Simplistix - Content Management, Zope  Python Consulting
 - http://www.simplistix.co.uk

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