[Zope-Annce] Silva 1.5 beta 1 released

2006-01-19 Thread Martijn Faassen

Silva 1.5 beta 1 released

19 january 2005 – Infrae has just released version 1.5 beta of the Silva 
content management system.


This is a beta release for public testing. Please let us know about any 
problems!


Silva 1.5 is the first Silva release that really starts using Zope 3 
technology in the core, and is the first step in a longer evolution. It 
does not have a lot of externally visible feature changes, but focuses 
on making Silva work with Zope 2.8 and Five 1.2.


Some of the changes:

* Silva now uses Zope 3 interfaces. SilvaLayout (to be released) does
  not have to create Zope 3 marker interfaces anymore.

* Silva now uses the Five/Zope 3 i18n architecture.
  PlacelessTranslationService is not in use anymore.

* Use Zope 2.8 style ZODB transactions.

* Some view code has been converted to be based on Zope 3 views.

* Some adapters have been converted to be true Zope 3 adapters.

See doc/developer_changes.txt in the Silva core package for more details 
about these changes. And of course a lot of bugs have been squashed: see 
HISTORY.txt in the package for complete details.


What is Silva?

Silva is an enterprise-class CMS for managing content for the web, 
print, and other media. Content is stored in clean and future-proof XML, 
independent of layout and presentation. Features include a multi-version 
workflow system, XSLT rendering support, integral WYSIWYG editor (Kupu), 
content reuse in multiple publications, sophisticated access management, 
extensive import/export facilities, fine-grained templating, and hi-res 
image storage and manipulation. Silva is entirely open source.


For more complete information, see the Silva Product Pages at 
http://www.infrae.com/products/silva.


Download

The package can be downloaded from http://www.infrae.com/download/Silva/.

Links to developer mailing lists, the issue tracker, and info about CVS 
access can be found on the Silva Product pages.


Contact

FMI contact Martijn Faassen, faassen at infrae com, +31 10 243 7051.
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[Zope-Checkins] SVN: Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/ - Fetch the dependencies with curl

2006-01-19 Thread Sidnei da Silva
Log message for revision 41368:
  
  - Fetch the dependencies with curl
  

Changed:
  U   Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/common.mk
  U   Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/python.mk
  U   Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/zope.mk

-=-
Modified: Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/common.mk
===
--- Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/common.mk   
2006-01-19 16:41:08 UTC (rev 41367)
+++ Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/common.mk   
2006-01-19 17:47:05 UTC (rev 41368)
@@ -37,10 +37,11 @@
 SED=sed
 TOUCH=touch
 NMAKE=nmake
+CURL=curl -N
 CSCRIPT=cscript
 ECHO=echo
 ISS_DIR=$(CYGROOT)/Progra~1/Inno Setup 5
-ISS_COMPILER=$(ISS_DIR)/Compil32.exe
+ISS_COMPILER=$(ISS_DIR)/Compil32.exe /cc
 # We need a version that understands cygwin paths, so /bin/
 UNZIP=/bin/unzip
 

Modified: Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/python.mk
===
--- Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/python.mk   
2006-01-19 16:41:08 UTC (rev 41367)
+++ Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/python.mk   
2006-01-19 17:47:05 UTC (rev 41368)
@@ -66,6 +66,18 @@
 clean_libs:
$(RMRF) $(W32EXTRACTDIR)
 
+# Fetch dependencies
+tmp:
+   $(MKDIR) tmp
+   
+tmp/$(W32ALLDIRNAME).exe: tmp
+   $(CURL) -o tmp/$(W32ALLDIRNAME).exe 
http://easynews.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/pywin32/$(W32ALLDIRNAME).exe
+   $(TOUCH) tmp/$(W32ALLDIRNAME).exe
+
+tmp/$(PYDIRNAME).tgz: tmp
+   $(CURL) -o tmp/$(PYDIRNAME).tgz 
http://python.org/ftp/python/$(PYVERSION)/$(PYDIRNAME).tgz
+   $(TOUCH) tmp/$(PYDIRNAME).tgz
+
 $(ARB_PYSRCDIR): tmp/$(PYDIRNAME).tgz
$(MKDIR) $(SRC_DIR)
$(CD) $(SRC_DIR)  $(TAR) xvzf ../tmp/$(PYDIRNAME).tgz

Modified: Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/zope.mk
===
--- Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/zope.mk 
2006-01-19 16:41:08 UTC (rev 41367)
+++ Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/zope.mk 
2006-01-19 17:47:05 UTC (rev 41368)
@@ -38,7 +38,7 @@
find $(BUILD_DIR) -name *.zcml | xargs unix2dos
 
# Build the Inno installer.
-   $(CD) $(BUILD_DIR);$(ISS_COMPILER) /cc $(WIN_BUILD_DIR)\zope.iss
+   $(CD) $(BUILD_DIR);$(ISS_COMPILER) $(WIN_BUILD_DIR)\zope.iss
 
 # This builds Zope, then installs it into the build directory, then
 # creates lib/python/Zope2/version.txt in the build directory.

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[Zope-Checkins] SVN: Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/zope.mk - Another dependency

2006-01-19 Thread Sidnei da Silva
Log message for revision 41369:
  
  - Another dependency
  

Changed:
  U   Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/zope.mk

-=-
Modified: Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/zope.mk
===
--- Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/zope.mk 
2006-01-19 17:47:05 UTC (rev 41368)
+++ Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/zope.mk 
2006-01-19 18:23:30 UTC (rev 41369)
@@ -64,7 +64,11 @@
echo Zope $(ZOPEVERSION)  $@
$(TOUCH) $@
 
+../tmp/$(ZOPEDIRNAME).tgz:
+   $(CURL) -o ../tmp/$(ZOPEDIRNAME).tgz 
http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope/$(ZOPEVERSION)/$(ZOPEDIRNAME).tgz
+   $(TOUCH) ../tmp/$(ZOPEDIRNAME).tgz
+
 # This merely unpacks the Zope tarball.
-src/$(ZOPEDIRNAME)/install.py:
+src/$(ZOPEDIRNAME)/install.py: ../tmp/$(ZOPEDIRNAME).tgz
$(MKDIR) $(SRC_DIR)
$(CD) $(SRC_DIR)  $(TAR) xvzf ../tmp/$(ZOPEDIRNAME).tgz

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[Zope-Checkins] SVN: Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/zope.mk - I must be blind

2006-01-19 Thread Sidnei da Silva
Log message for revision 41370:
  
  - I must be blind
  

Changed:
  U   Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/zope.mk

-=-
Modified: Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/zope.mk
===
--- Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/zope.mk 
2006-01-19 18:23:30 UTC (rev 41369)
+++ Zope/branches/tim-2.9-windows-installer/inst/WinBuilders/mk/zope.mk 
2006-01-19 18:24:40 UTC (rev 41370)
@@ -64,11 +64,11 @@
echo Zope $(ZOPEVERSION)  $@
$(TOUCH) $@
 
-../tmp/$(ZOPEDIRNAME).tgz:
-   $(CURL) -o ../tmp/$(ZOPEDIRNAME).tgz 
http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope/$(ZOPEVERSION)/$(ZOPEDIRNAME).tgz
-   $(TOUCH) ../tmp/$(ZOPEDIRNAME).tgz
+tmp/$(ZOPEDIRNAME).tgz:
+   $(CURL) -o tmp/$(ZOPEDIRNAME).tgz 
http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope/$(ZOPEVERSION)/$(ZOPEDIRNAME).tgz
+   $(TOUCH) tmp/$(ZOPEDIRNAME).tgz
 
 # This merely unpacks the Zope tarball.
-src/$(ZOPEDIRNAME)/install.py: ../tmp/$(ZOPEDIRNAME).tgz
+src/$(ZOPEDIRNAME)/install.py: tmp/$(ZOPEDIRNAME).tgz
$(MKDIR) $(SRC_DIR)
$(CD) $(SRC_DIR)  $(TAR) xvzf ../tmp/$(ZOPEDIRNAME).tgz

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[Zope-Checkins] CVS: Packages/ZODB - component.xml:1.10.6.3.8.1 config.py:1.13.4.1.38.1

2006-01-19 Thread Jim Fulton
Update of /cvs-repository/Packages/ZODB
In directory cvs.zope.org:/tmp/cvs-serv24275/ZODB

Modified Files:
  Tag: jim-test-storage
component.xml config.py 
Log Message:
First cut at as-of option to open to a specific point in time.


=== Packages/ZODB/component.xml 1.10.6.3 = 1.10.6.3.8.1 ===
--- Packages/ZODB/component.xml:1.10.6.3Fri Nov 26 14:36:44 2004
+++ Packages/ZODB/component.xml Thu Jan 19 20:15:09 2006
@@ -35,6 +35,13 @@
 raised.
   /description
 /key
+key name=as-of datatype=string
+  description
+The as-of option allows opening a storage at a particilar 
+time in it's history.  The argument is a date-time of the form:
+-MM-DDTHH:MM:SS.
+  /description
+/key
   /sectiontype
 
   sectiontype name=mappingstorage datatype=.MappingStorage


=== Packages/ZODB/config.py 1.13.4.1 = 1.13.4.1.38.1 ===
--- Packages/ZODB/config.py:1.13.4.1Mon Sep 15 14:02:58 2003
+++ Packages/ZODB/config.py Thu Jan 19 20:15:09 2006
@@ -17,6 +17,7 @@
 
 import os
 from cStringIO import StringIO
+import ZODB.Timestamp
 
 import ZConfig
 
@@ -122,10 +123,25 @@
 
 def open(self):
 from ZODB.FileStorage import FileStorage
+
+as_of = self.config.as_of
+if as_of:
+if 'T' in as_of:
+d, t = as_of.split('T')
+else:
+d, t = as_of, '0'
+
+y, m, d = map(int, d.split('-'))
+as_of = ZODB.TimeStamp.TimeStamp(y, m, d, *t.split(':'))
+else:
+as_of = None
+
 return FileStorage(self.config.path,
create=self.config.create,
read_only=self.config.read_only,
-   quota=self.config.quota)
+   quota=self.config.quota,
+   stop=as_of,
+   )
 
 class ZEOClient(BaseConfig):
 

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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] December release post-mortem

2006-01-19 Thread Benji York

Stephan Richter wrote:

Let's say zope.testbrowser is an egg and I discover a bug in
zope.textbrowser while doing some other Zope 3 development, I have to
check out zope.testbrowser, fix the bug, check it in, download the
new egg and hope it fixed my Zope 3 problem.


I'm an egg neophyte, but I believe you can put an egg in dev mode (or 
whatever it's called) and you'll get a subversion (or cvs) checkout. 
You can then make your changes, etc.

--
Benji York
Senior Software Engineer
Zope Corporation
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[Zope-dev] Zope tests: 8 OK

2006-01-19 Thread Zope tests summarizer
Summary of messages to the zope-tests list.
Period Wed Jan 18 12:01:01 2006 UTC to Thu Jan 19 12:01:01 2006 UTC.
There were 8 messages: 8 from Zope Unit Tests.


Tests passed OK
---

Subject: OK : Zope-2_6-branch Python-2.1.3 : Linux
From: Zope Unit Tests
Date: Wed Jan 18 21:03:05 EST 2006
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-January/004042.html

Subject: OK : Zope-2_6-branch Python-2.3.5 : Linux
From: Zope Unit Tests
Date: Wed Jan 18 21:04:36 EST 2006
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-January/004043.html

Subject: OK : Zope-2_7-branch Python-2.3.5 : Linux
From: Zope Unit Tests
Date: Wed Jan 18 21:06:06 EST 2006
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-January/004044.html

Subject: OK : Zope-2_7-branch Python-2.4.2 : Linux
From: Zope Unit Tests
Date: Wed Jan 18 21:07:36 EST 2006
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-January/004045.html

Subject: OK : Zope-2_8-branch Python-2.3.5 : Linux
From: Zope Unit Tests
Date: Wed Jan 18 21:09:06 EST 2006
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-January/004046.html

Subject: OK : Zope-2_8-branch Python-2.4.2 : Linux
From: Zope Unit Tests
Date: Wed Jan 18 21:10:36 EST 2006
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-January/004047.html

Subject: OK : Zope-2_9-branch Python-2.4.2 : Linux
From: Zope Unit Tests
Date: Wed Jan 18 21:12:06 EST 2006
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-January/004048.html

Subject: OK : Zope-trunk Python-2.4.2 : Linux
From: Zope Unit Tests
Date: Wed Jan 18 21:13:36 EST 2006
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2006-January/004049.html

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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] December release post-mortem

2006-01-19 Thread Jim Fulton

Stephan Richter wrote:

On Wednesday 18 January 2006 19:09, Jim Fulton wrote:


You know my position concerning the repository and the release; I'd
prefer them to be kept as similar as possible to simplify the release
process. I hope we can go in that direction. It also makes things more
predictable to developers. We noticed that some Zope 3 packages weren't
packaged into Zope 2 after the release, even though in a developer's
sandbox of Zope 2 they were there.


Right. If eggs work out, then a respository check out will be a lot
smaller, but will download needed eggs.  This would be a replacement of the
use of externals we have now.



Oh, this will make development so much more tedious. Let's say 
zope.testbrowser is an egg and I discover a bug in zope.textbrowser while 
doing some other Zope 3 development, I have to check out zope.testbrowser, 
fix the bug, check it in, download the new egg and hope it fixed my Zope 3 
problem. Honestly this is far too much and I will at most make a bug report.


I beliave that Eggs have a development mode in which you can work on the source.
This apears to be easy to switch too, perhaps easier than editing externals.
I haven't gotten to try this myself.  We'll see as we learn more about eggs.
I'm at least as lazy as you are, so rest assured, I'm gonna try to come up
with a methodology that makes my life as easy as possible.

If more than one application uses a package, it is feasible for at most
one application to include it.  Managing the application that way makes
it more complicated for other applications to use.  For example, the
package's releace cycle becomes bound to the release cycle of the
including application, which is cumbersome for other applications.

I have seen you take a similar approach to zope.testing and I found that 
painful just by watching the checkins.


I don't understand what you mean.  Having a separate zope.testing project has
been extremely useful.  For example, in our comercial apps,
we often used newer versions than existed in Zope 3.  We often needed
enhacements to zope.testing at times that Zope 3 was feature frozen.
We could have made a Zope 3 branch just to modify zope.testing, but that
would have been a hassle for us and for Zope 3 developers.  Note that
the new test runner (from zope.testing) was used in ZODB long before it
was used in Zope 3.

 I feel like an old record, but please
let's keep the development process as simple as possible. I rather make some 
concessions to the packaging and dependency system than spending more time 
developing.


Perhaps our goals are different. I want Zope's packages to be usable
outside of Zope.  I also want to make it easier to use external packages.
I think that a more package-centric development methodoligy will make
achieving these goals much easier.  I also think it will make Zope releases
go smoother because the scope of the release will be narrower.  Someday,
A Zope release will include an app-server specific core and a collection of
other package releases.  To the extend that those packages have their own
lifeccyles, and quality control, the amount of newly released code in a Zope
release wil be smaller.  A package-based approach will also make it easier to
release less. We'll be freed from a batteries included mentality that
encourages large high-risk releases. And it will make it easier for people
to make custom releases that have configurations targeted to specific needs.

Jim

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CTO  (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org
Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com   http://www.zope.org
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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] December release post-mortem

2006-01-19 Thread Martijn Faassen

Jim Fulton wrote:

Stephan Richter wrote:


On Wednesday 18 January 2006 11:27, Martijn Faassen wrote:


How do you assemble releases 'from releases'? I'm not sure I
understand that. You mean make a Zope 2 release using a Zope 3
release?


I'll note that SchoolTool greatly benefits from the current release
 building. We simply include all the Zope 3 dependencies in our 
dependency list and build the release. We can decide to include

Zope 3 dependencies or not. Overall I think zpkg is a great win and
whatever we do next should not remove those features.


I agree that dependency based releases -- and development is great.
I think eggs are a lot farther along that zpkg. (Eggs weren't around
when we started zpkg.)  If eggs work out, as I hope they will, I'd
like to stop work on zpkg and just use eggs.


Sure, I support dependencies and separating out Zope into sub projects, 
I'm just listing an additional use case: the repository state should be 
similar to release state, to avoid confusion for developers as well as 
people who want to become developers.


I.e. a developer should have the ability to easily see the same (or 
similar) code layout, dependencies, etc, as in a release, and someone 
familiar with a release should see the same (or similar) code layout, 
dependencies, if they become a developer.


Another use case, probably mostly in the context of Five, it's nice to 
have an inclusive release of Zope 3 in Zope 2. The goal of reducing the 
amount of code included in Zope 2 sounds nice in theory, but it stops 
Five developers from exposing Zope 3 code in Zope 2 because it simply 
isn't there in a particular release. It is *nice* to have all of Zope 3 
included in Zope 2. I don't want to lose that good thing in the rush to 
minimize dependencies.


Regards,

Martijn
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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] December release post-mortem

2006-01-19 Thread Martijn Faassen

Jim Fulton wrote:

Martijn Faassen wrote:
...

How do you assemble releases 'from releases'? I'm not sure I 
understand that. You mean make a Zope 2 release using a Zope 3 release?



No, I mean using eggs.  Zope should be broken into separate projects
with their own eggs.  A Zope release might just be an egg with 
dependencies.

Or it might just be a collection of eggs.


Ah, makes sense. A 'meta-package', so to speak. Works well in Debian, so 
I think that's an interesting pattern to follow. As long as we can do 
those micro releases quickly -- the problem is that Zope 3 is one 
project, and we want one communication channel, as we simply don't have 
enough people otherwise. From another perspective it's many projects, 
though.


You know my position concerning the repository and the release; I'd 
prefer them to be kept as similar as possible to simplify the release 
process. I hope we can go in that direction. It also makes things more 
predictable to developers. We noticed that some Zope 3 packages 
weren't packaged into Zope 2 after the release, even though in a 
developer's sandbox of Zope 2 they were there.



Right. If eggs work out, then a respository check out will be a lot 
smaller,

but will download needed eggs.  This would be a replacement of the
use of externals we have now.


A risk here is that if I find a bug in package X, I can't easily track 
it into package Y and fix it there, as package Y is an egg. The current 
system doesn't have this problem.


As a side issue: From the perspective of Five, it is beneficial to 
have as much Zope 3 code included into Zope 2 releases, as that gives 
us an opportunity to start using this functionality right away, 
exposing it to Zope 2, without waiting for a new release.


Understand though that there is nothing like a backward compatibility
promise for something that hasn't been released.


Yes, but Zope 2 included *less* than Zope 3 in the most recent release, 
and I'd like *all* packages that are in a Zope 3 release to be available 
in a Zope 2 release. I.e. Five doesn't want packages that aren't in a 
Zope 3 release, but not less either.


[snip]
  (If you're interested I can try to explain some of my thinking a bit 
deeply.) Eggs are a nice distribution mechanism, but I'd also want the 
knitting process to work for a SVN checkout -- developers working with 
SVN need to be very easily work with a 'knitted' version, so perhaps 
svn:externals will remain a valuable tool.


Assuming that eggs fullfill their promise, I think I'd
rather use eggs than externals.


Sure, but see the risk I mentioned earlier in this mail.


As part of this decomposition, we need to make zope.app much smaller.
 Early in Zope 3 development, I proposed a simple rule for
organization of the repository: Anything that depended on zope.app
went in zope.app. Anything else went in zope.  If there was doubt,
put it in zope.app.  I think that served us well at the time, but I
think we've moved beyond that,  I'd like to migrate most of zope.app
elsewhere.  Zope 2.10 should not include zope.app.


This worries me; Five is currently using massive quantities of code in 
zope.app, and as expressed above, I value Five having access to 
potentially all Zope 3 code that's in a Zope 3 release.


The code that Five is using will still be available, but it will be
somewhere else (with necessary backward compatibility hacks).


As long as Zope 2.10 contains all packages in Zope 3.

Regards,

Martijn
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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] December release post-mortem

2006-01-19 Thread Martijn Faassen

Stephan Richter wrote:

On Wednesday 18 January 2006 19:09, Jim Fulton wrote:


You know my position concerning the repository and the release; I'd
prefer them to be kept as similar as possible to simplify the release
process. I hope we can go in that direction. It also makes things more
predictable to developers. We noticed that some Zope 3 packages weren't
packaged into Zope 2 after the release, even though in a developer's
sandbox of Zope 2 they were there.


Right. If eggs work out, then a respository check out will be a lot
smaller, but will download needed eggs.  This would be a replacement of the
use of externals we have now.



Oh, this will make development so much more tedious. Let's say 
zope.testbrowser is an egg and I discover a bug in zope.textbrowser while 
doing some other Zope 3 development, I have to check out zope.testbrowser, 
fix the bug, check it in, download the new egg and hope it fixed my Zope 3 
problem. Honestly this is far too much and I will at most make a bug report.


Ah, exactly the risk I pointed out too, I should've read the thread 
first before I repeated you. :)


I have seen you take a similar approach to zope.testing and I found that 
painful just by watching the checkins. I feel like an old record, but please 
let's keep the development process as simple as possible. I rather make some 
concessions to the packaging and dependency system than spending more time 
developing.


What if we can create in SVN the equivalent of what would be an egg + 
its dependencies for checkout, using externals? I know Jim said he 
doesn't want to use externals, but I'm thinking in that direction. You'd 
have one SVN directory for each egg, which then contains the right 
externals to pull in all the dependencies. Hopefully the process of 
creating such an SVN directory could be automated from egg dependency 
metadata.


Regards,

Martijn
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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] December release post-mortem

2006-01-19 Thread Stephan Richter
On Thursday 19 January 2006 07:00, Jim Fulton wrote:
  I have seen you take a similar approach to zope.testing and I found that
  painful just by watching the checkins.

 I don't understand what you mean.  Having a separate zope.testing project
 has been extremely useful.  For example, in our comercial apps,
 we often used newer versions than existed in Zope 3.  We often needed
 enhacements to zope.testing at times that Zope 3 was feature frozen.
 We could have made a Zope 3 branch just to modify zope.testing, but that
 would have been a hassle for us and for Zope 3 developers.  Note that
 the new test runner (from zope.testing) was used in ZODB long before it
 was used in Zope 3.

Argument taken and agreed that this is a valuable use case.

Regard,
Stephan
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CBU Physics  Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student)
Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training
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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] December release post-mortem

2006-01-19 Thread Stephan Richter
On Thursday 19 January 2006 07:00, Jim Fulton wrote:
   I feel like an old record, but please

  let's keep the development process as simple as possible. I rather make
  some concessions to the packaging and dependency system than spending
  more time developing.

 Perhaps our goals are different. I want Zope's packages to be usable
 outside of Zope.  I also want to make it easier to use external packages.
 I think that a more package-centric development methodoligy will make
 achieving these goals much easier.  I also think it will make Zope releases
 go smoother because the scope of the release will be narrower.  Someday,
 A Zope release will include an app-server specific core and a collection of
 other package releases.  To the extend that those packages have their own
 lifeccyles, and quality control, the amount of newly released code in a
 Zope release wil be smaller.  A package-based approach will also make it
 easier to release less. We'll be freed from a batteries included
 mentality that encourages large high-risk releases. And it will make it
 easier for people to make custom releases that have configurations targeted
 to specific needs.

I think we do have different goals here. I would agree with that approach, if 
we would have a large community where small groups take over the maintenance 
and development of a package. But that's not the case and it will not change 
any time soon, I think.

Regards,
Stephan
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CBU Physics  Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student)
Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training
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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] December release post-mortem

2006-01-19 Thread Stephan Richter
On Thursday 19 January 2006 07:46, Martijn Faassen wrote:
  Oh, this will make development so much more tedious. Let's say
  zope.testbrowser is an egg and I discover a bug in zope.textbrowser while
  doing some other Zope 3 development, I have to check out
  zope.testbrowser, fix the bug, check it in, download the new egg and hope
  it fixed my Zope 3 problem. Honestly this is far too much and I will at
  most make a bug report.

 Ah, exactly the risk I pointed out too, I should've read the thread
 first before I repeated you. :)

Yeah, I am glad someone else backs my concern. I agreed with everything you 
said in your previous mail.

  I have seen you take a similar approach to zope.testing and I found that
  painful just by watching the checkins. I feel like an old record, but
  please let's keep the development process as simple as possible. I rather
  make some concessions to the packaging and dependency system than
  spending more time developing.

 What if we can create in SVN the equivalent of what would be an egg +
 its dependencies for checkout, using externals? I know Jim said he
 doesn't want to use externals, but I'm thinking in that direction. You'd
 have one SVN directory for each egg, which then contains the right
 externals to pull in all the dependencies. Hopefully the process of
 creating such an SVN directory could be automated from egg dependency
 metadata.

That would work for me. If it resolves the risk and is still pretty automated, 
SVN checkout or even calling make, then it is fine by me. The others have 
also pointed out the egg development mode.

Regards,
Stephan
-- 
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CBU Physics  Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student)
Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training
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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] December release post-mortem

2006-01-19 Thread Martijn Faassen

Stephan Richter wrote:
[svn reflecting egg dependency structure]
That would work for me. If it resolves the risk and is still pretty automated, 
SVN checkout or even calling make, then it is fine by me. The others have 
also pointed out the egg development mode.


Right, I didn't know of that, but if that fulfills the usecases, then 
that's even better.


Regards,

Martijn
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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] December release post-mortem

2006-01-19 Thread Jim Fulton

Martijn Faassen wrote:
...
Sure, I support dependencies and separating out Zope into sub projects, 
I'm just listing an additional use case: the repository state should be 
similar to release state, to avoid confusion for developers as well as 
people who want to become developers.


I.e. a developer should have the ability to easily see the same (or 
similar) code layout, dependencies, etc, as in a release, and someone 
familiar with a release should see the same (or similar) code layout, 
dependencies, if they become a developer.


Right, got it.  A checkout and a release should be very similar.
If eggs work out, then they would both use eggs to satisfy their
dependencies.

Another use case, probably mostly in the context of Five, it's nice to 
have an inclusive release of Zope 3 in Zope 2. The goal of reducing the 
amount of code included in Zope 2 sounds nice in theory, but it stops 
Five developers from exposing Zope 3 code in Zope 2 because it simply 
isn't there in a particular release. It is *nice* to have all of Zope 3 
included in Zope 2. I don't want to lose that good thing in the rush to 
minimize dependencies.


Right now Five/Zope2 include lots of packages they don't and may never
use.  I want Five/Zope2 to not *have* to include packages they don't
need just because we've created monoliths.  I especially don't want
to release experimental code through Five/Zope2 just because we don't
have our repository and/or packaging in order.

Jim

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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] December release post-mortem

2006-01-19 Thread Jim Fulton

Martijn Faassen wrote:
...
A risk here is that if I find a bug in package X, I can't easily track 
it into package Y and fix it there, as package Y is an egg. The current 
system doesn't have this problem.


There are two issues here:

1. Debugging. Can debugging tools show you code in eggs? They should.
   If they don't they may need to be improved.  If that's not an option,
   eggs let you expand an egg into a normal directory at installation time.
   I don't think this will be a problem, although we may need to
   take some steps to assure that it isn't.

2. Updates.  We can't update packages now that we get via externals.
   If we didn't adopt eggs, I expect that we'd make greater and greater
   use of externals.  Eggs don't make update any harder than externals.

...


Understand though that there is nothing like a backward compatibility
promise for something that hasn't been released.



Yes, but Zope 2 included *less* than Zope 3 in the most recent release, 
and I'd like *all* packages that are in a Zope 3 release to be available 
in a Zope 2 release. I.e. Five doesn't want packages that aren't in a 
Zope 3 release, but not less either.


I'm surprised that it included less.  I think a more powerful
packaging architecture will make it easeir to include what we want.
Deciding what we want is another issue.

Jim

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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] December release post-mortem

2006-01-19 Thread Jim Fulton

Martijn Faassen wrote:
...
What if we can create in SVN the equivalent of what would be an egg + 
its dependencies for checkout, using externals? I know Jim said he 
doesn't want to use externals, but I'm thinking in that direction. You'd 
have one SVN directory for each egg, which then contains the right 
externals to pull in all the dependencies. Hopefully the process of 
creating such an SVN directory could be automated from egg dependency 
metadata.


I'm confused. I thought you wanted a checkout to look like a release.
Releases won't use svn:externals.  What about dependencies that aren't
managed in subversion?  Will you import them into a repository just so
you can use an external?  What if a dependency of a dependency changes?
Externals don't handle this well.  Eggs do.

I think we should investigate eggs.  Do I know they will work? No.  I
haven't done much with them yet. Do you know they won't? Obviously not.
I suggest we reserve jusdgement until we have had an opportunity for
some prototyping.  Based on what I've seen so far, I'm very hopeful.
And then there's the fact that they come from a much wider community
than just Zope.

Jim

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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] December release post-mortem

2006-01-19 Thread Jim Fulton

Stephan Richter wrote:

On Thursday 19 January 2006 07:00, Jim Fulton wrote:


 I feel like an old record, but please



let's keep the development process as simple as possible. I rather make
some concessions to the packaging and dependency system than spending
more time developing.


Perhaps our goals are different. I want Zope's packages to be usable
outside of Zope.  I also want to make it easier to use external packages.
I think that a more package-centric development methodoligy will make
achieving these goals much easier.  I also think it will make Zope releases
go smoother because the scope of the release will be narrower.  Someday,
A Zope release will include an app-server specific core and a collection of
other package releases.  To the extend that those packages have their own
lifeccyles, and quality control, the amount of newly released code in a
Zope release wil be smaller.  A package-based approach will also make it
easier to release less. We'll be freed from a batteries included
mentality that encourages large high-risk releases. And it will make it
easier for people to make custom releases that have configurations targeted
to specific needs.



I think we do have different goals here. I would agree with that approach, if 
we would have a large community where small groups take over the maintenance 
and development of a package. But that's not the case and it will not change 
any time soon, I think.


I disagree.  There are sub-projects within The Zope tree that are worked on
by a few people.  Take viewlets for example.  I think we'll have more of this
once we have a more supportive environment.

Jim

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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] December release post-mortem

2006-01-19 Thread Tim Peters
...

[Stephan Ricther]
 I have seen you take a similar approach to zope.testing and I found that
 painful just by watching the checkins.

[Jim Fulton]
 I don't understand what you mean.  Having a separate zope.testing project has
 been extremely useful.  For example, in our comercial apps,
 we often used newer versions than existed in Zope 3.  We often needed
 enhacements to zope.testing at times that Zope 3 was feature frozen.
 We could have made a Zope 3 branch just to modify zope.testing, but that
 would have been a hassle for us and for Zope 3 developers.  Note that
 the new test runner (from zope.testing) was used in ZODB long before it
 was used in Zope 3.

I want to note that this was good for Zope3, too:  as a willing early
adopter of zope.testing, ZODB hit bugs and platform-dependent
glitches first, and got them fixed before the larger Zope3 development
community could be bit by them.

Also want to note that ZRS needed to add new features to
zope.testing, and ZRS doesn't include _any_ Zope code (ZRS builds on
ZEO, not Zope).  Having zope.testing be its own project without all
the adminstrative overheads of having its own official releases made
it very easy to add new code for ZRS's benefit without disturbing any
of zope.testing's other users.

In all, zope.testing is a poster child for the value of package
development outside of a Zope tree.  It's true that, to make changes
in zope.testing, I needed to have a distinct checkout of zope.testing.
 I didn't feel that to be a burden, though.
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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] December release post-mortem

2006-01-19 Thread Martijn Faassen

Jim Fulton wrote:

Martijn Faassen wrote:
...

What if we can create in SVN the equivalent of what would be an egg + 
its dependencies for checkout, using externals? I know Jim said he 
doesn't want to use externals, but I'm thinking in that direction. 
You'd have one SVN directory for each egg, which then contains the 
right externals to pull in all the dependencies. Hopefully the process 
of creating such an SVN directory could be automated from egg 
dependency metadata.



I'm confused. I thought you wanted a checkout to look like a release.
Releases won't use svn:externals.  What about dependencies that aren't
managed in subversion?  Will you import them into a repository just so
you can use an external?  What if a dependency of a dependency changes?
Externals don't handle this well.  Eggs do.


I wasn't fully aware when I wrote that that eggs can help during 
development. I need to read up on development eggs.



I think we should investigate eggs.  Do I know they will work? No.  I
haven't done much with them yet. Do you know they won't? Obviously not.
I suggest we reserve jusdgement until we have had an opportunity for
some prototyping.  Based on what I've seen so far, I'm very hopeful.
And then there's the fact that they come from a much wider community
than just Zope.


No, I don't know they don't work, I just hadn't considered eggs as a 
development tool. I agree wholeheartedly eggs should be explored, and I 
was homing in on a possible solution before I understand what other 
alternatives exist. :)


Regards,

Martijn
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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] December release post-mortem

2006-01-19 Thread Martijn Faassen

Jim Fulton wrote:

Martijn Faassen wrote:


Yes, but Zope 2 included *less* than Zope 3 in the most recent 
release, and I'd like *all* packages that are in a Zope 3 release to 
be available in a Zope 2 release. I.e. Five doesn't want packages that 
aren't in a Zope 3 release, but not less either.



I'm surprised that it included less. 


It was a bug, and I think some of it already got resolved (Philipp would 
know more), but it wasn't noticed until fairly late, as during 
development such dependencies are development.



I think a more powerful
packaging architecture will make it easeir to include what we want.
Deciding what we want is another issue.


Agreed. I just wanted to make clear what I want early on. :)

Regards,

Martijn
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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] December release post-mortem

2006-01-19 Thread Martijn Faassen

Jim Fulton wrote:

Martijn Faassen wrote:


Another use case, probably mostly in the context of Five, it's nice to 
have an inclusive release of Zope 3 in Zope 2. The goal of reducing 
the amount of code included in Zope 2 sounds nice in theory, but it 
stops Five developers from exposing Zope 3 code in Zope 2 because it 
simply isn't there in a particular release. It is *nice* to have all 
of Zope 3 included in Zope 2. I don't want to lose that good thing in 
the rush to minimize dependencies.



Right now Five/Zope2 include lots of packages they don't and may never
use.  I want Five/Zope2 to not *have* to include packages they don't
need just because we've created monoliths.  I especially don't want
to release experimental code through Five/Zope2 just because we don't
have our repository and/or packaging in order.


Hm, some confusion.. Perhaps the cause is this: With Zope 3, I mean 
Zope 3 *as released*. I imagine you might think of Zope 3 differently, 
i.e. Zope 3 as what's in the repository, which includes things beyond 
what gets released (i.e experimental packages).


I'm talking about a Zope 2 release including (most of) what's in a Zope 
3 release, so that Five developers can work on exposing *that* in Zope 2 
too (which can then be part of the next Zope 2 release as we integrate 
the newer Five in it).


I'm  describing a pattern of working that has worked pretty well for 
Five for a while now.


Of course that doesn't mean I want experimental packages in Zope 2 that 
are not in a Zope 3 release. Five is about exposing Zope 3 as released 
in Zope 2, it shouldn't expose *more* functionality than Zope 3 does. :)


Regards,

Martijn
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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] December release post-mortem

2006-01-19 Thread Michael Dunstan
On 1/20/06, Tim Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 In all, zope.testing is a poster child for the value of package
 development outside of a Zope tree.

I've been very happy using zope.testing with several non zope
projects. Including how easy it is to follow and distribute that
package as needed for those projects.

Same goes for zdaemon. And of course ZConfig.

Michael
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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] December release post-mortem

2006-01-19 Thread Chris Withers

Jim Fulton wrote:


I think we should investigate eggs.  Do I know they will work? No.  I
haven't done much with them yet. Do you know they won't? Obviously not.
I suggest we reserve jusdgement until we have had an opportunity for
some prototyping.  Based on what I've seen so far, I'm very hopeful.
And then there's the fact that they come from a much wider community
than just Zope.


I have to admit to being very interested in eggs myself. I like the idea 
of zope being a collection of independent packages with their own 
release schedules - breaking down the monolithic release problem.


I think Zope 3 has done extremely well with all this so far. Personally, 
I've used Zope 3s' ZPT and testbrowser packages in contexts that have 
nothing to do with Zope 3 (or even Zope sometimes) and liked the feel of it.


I wasn't away the same was true for zope.testing but I'm very glad to 
hear it.


On a side note, I see python now includes doctest.py, why are we still 
maintaining our own copy in zope.testing?


cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] [ZPublisher] specifiying 'charset' for the content-type header

2006-01-19 Thread Chris Withers

Andreas Jung wrote:



Ah, okay, and how would I indicate in my PythonScript return that I'm
returning something different to what is specified in
zpublisher_default_encoding?


By setting the content-type header _with_ a 'charset' set.


A cool :-) Where's the code that checks if this header is present so I 
can take a look?


cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope-dev] [ZPublisher] specifiying 'charset' for the content-type header

2006-01-19 Thread Andreas Jung



--On 19. Januar 2006 18:37:35 + Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:



Andreas Jung wrote:



Ah, okay, and how would I indicate in my PythonScript return that I'm
returning something different to what is specified in
zpublisher_default_encoding?


By setting the content-type header _with_ a 'charset' set.


A cool :-) Where's the code that checks if this header is present so I
can take a look?


ZPublisher/HTTPResponse.py  (where else :-))

-aj




pgpD5uzs9bquW.pgp
Description: PGP signature
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Re: [Zope-PAS] role management

2006-01-19 Thread Jens Vagelpohl


On 19 Jan 2006, at 22:55, Wichert Akkerman wrote:

Currently adding roles through a RoleManager breaks ZODBRoleManager:
it reads a list of all roles when it created and assumes they do not
change after that. If you add a new role you can do that through
a RoleManager directly, but ZODBRoleManager will not notice and  
will not

enumerate it.

Can someone enlighten me as to how roles and local roles really  
differ,

and why every folder has both?


Roles are global. User objects get them assigned upon creation.  
Local roles are only used within the context they are defined in. So  
if user A has role Member after authenticating at the root in / 
acl_users, and he has a local role Manager in /members/A, then  
security validation will recognize him as Member and Manager for all  
items accessed in or underneath /members/A, but only as Member  
everywhere else.


If ZODBRoleManager does not see global roles added after its  
instantiation then that's a bug.


jens

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Re: [Zope-PAS] role management

2006-01-19 Thread Tino Wildenhain
Jens Vagelpohl schrieb:
 
 On 19 Jan 2006, at 21:48, Wichert Akkerman wrote:
 
 I notice that PAS is missing an interface which specifies how to add
 a role. Is that a conscious decision?
 
 
 Zope user folders don't manage roles, containers do. Or basically any 
 RoleManager (see AccessControl/Role.py if I remember correctly).

depends on where to add :-) At least userfolders have a way
to add roles to a user :)
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Re: [ZWeb] new zope.org: zope newsletter

2006-01-19 Thread bakhtiar a hamid
On Thursday 19 January 2006 14:40, Carlos de la Guardia wrote:
 Hi,

 I have some comments about the idea of a Zope newsletter. Though it would
 be nice to have one, a newsletter may be too formal an undertaking for a
 community site.

 There was a time when the zope.org site presented a feature called Zope
 Weekly News, where the name weekly comes from a loose definition of week
 which refers to any period of days longer than a week and shorter than a
 year.

 I think a community site that tries to do newsletters takes the risk of
 going the way of ZWN. Unless someone is paid to do this, I think we better
 not do it. A blog should be enough and even those aren't that easy to keep
 updated.

 We could also compile automatically some news items, Releases and
 announcements and call them the newsletter.

i would think planetzope.org fits this description nicely



 Carlos de la Guardia
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Re: [ZWeb] new zope.org: zope newsletter

2006-01-19 Thread Martijn Faassen

bakhtiar a hamid wrote:

On Thursday 19 January 2006 14:40, Carlos de la Guardia wrote:


Hi,

I have some comments about the idea of a Zope newsletter. Though it would
be nice to have one, a newsletter may be too formal an undertaking for a
community site.

There was a time when the zope.org site presented a feature called Zope
Weekly News, where the name weekly comes from a loose definition of week
which refers to any period of days longer than a week and shorter than a
year.

I think a community site that tries to do newsletters takes the risk of
going the way of ZWN. Unless someone is paid to do this, I think we better
not do it. A blog should be enough and even those aren't that easy to keep
updated.

We could also compile automatically some news items, Releases and
announcements and call them the newsletter.



i would think planetzope.org fits this description nicely


Good analysis, Carlos. I agree that keeping a newsletter up to date on a 
weekly basis is very hard to do, and it may indeed be a good idea to 
instead try something else that is more automatic.


planetzope.org is indeed a good start. Luckily Michael Haubenwallner of 
planetzope is a datamunger, and is working on involving other sources of 
news, such as zope related del.icio.us links.


Michael, what do you think?

Regards,

Martijn
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Re: [ZWeb] new zope.org: zope newsletter

2006-01-19 Thread Tonico Strasser

Martijn Faassen wrote:

zope related del.icio.us links.


I'm not Michael, but I think that bookmarks are not a good news source. 
People often bookmark useful but old stuff.


Tonico

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Re: [ZWeb] new zope.org: zope newsletter

2006-01-19 Thread Sidnei da Silva
On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 12:31:28PM +0100, Martijn Faassen wrote:
| Good analysis, Carlos. I agree that keeping a newsletter up to date on a 
| weekly basis is very hard to do, and it may indeed be a good idea to 
| instead try something else that is more automatic.
| 
| planetzope.org is indeed a good start. Luckily Michael Haubenwallner of 
| planetzope is a datamunger, and is working on involving other sources of 
| news, such as zope related del.icio.us links.

On a unrelated note, I've seen some checkins on the z3-base about some
zopeweb project. I haven't seen any mention of it on this list though
so what's the intent of that?

-- 
Sidnei da Silva
Enfold Systems, LLC.
http://enfoldsystems.com
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Re: [ZWeb] new zope.org: zope newsletter

2006-01-19 Thread Michael Haubenwallner

Martijn Faassen wrote:


bakhtiar a hamid wrote:


On Thursday 19 January 2006 14:40, Carlos de la Guardia wrote:


We could also compile automatically some news items, Releases and
announcements and call them the newsletter.


i would think planetzope.org fits this description nicely


planetzope.org is indeed a good start. Luckily Michael Haubenwallner of 
planetzope is a datamunger, and is working on involving other sources of 
news, such as zope related del.icio.us links.


Michael, what do you think?


To answer this (and what Tonico mentioned in his posting) i'm using 
del.icio.us as a cheap way for collecting data and organizing content 
from which a zope.org newsletter can be written.


Michael

--
http://zope.org/Members/d2m
http://planetzope.org

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Re: [ZWeb] new zope.org: zope newsletter

2006-01-19 Thread Martijn Faassen

Sidnei da Silva wrote:

On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 12:31:28PM +0100, Martijn Faassen wrote:
| Good analysis, Carlos. I agree that keeping a newsletter up to date on a 
| weekly basis is very hard to do, and it may indeed be a good idea to 
| instead try something else that is more automatic.
| 
| planetzope.org is indeed a good start. Luckily Michael Haubenwallner of 
| planetzope is a datamunger, and is working on involving other sources of 
| news, such as zope related del.icio.us links.


On a unrelated note, I've seen some checkins on the z3-base about some
zopeweb project. I haven't seen any mention of it on this list though
so what's the intent of that?



Congratulations, you're now member of our secret conspiracy! You're the 
first one who discovered about it without hearing directly from me. 
Inevitable once we started talking on this list. :)


See here for the details:

http://codespeak.net/svn/z3/zopeweb/trunk/project.txt

Feel free to join in and help us write some more text.

Regards,

Martijn

P.S. We're working in the shadows for now, so please don't announce that 
we're doing it to the whole world. We first want something to show for it.


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Re: [ZWeb] new zope.org: zope newsletter

2006-01-19 Thread Martijn Faassen

Michael Haubenwallner wrote:

Martijn Faassen wrote:


bakhtiar a hamid wrote:


On Thursday 19 January 2006 14:40, Carlos de la Guardia wrote:



We could also compile automatically some news items, Releases and
announcements and call them the newsletter.



i would think planetzope.org fits this description nicely


planetzope.org is indeed a good start. Luckily Michael Haubenwallner 
of planetzope is a datamunger, and is working on involving other 
sources of news, such as zope related del.icio.us links.


Michael, what do you think?


To answer this (and what Tonico mentioned in his posting) i'm using 
del.icio.us as a cheap way for collecting data and organizing content 
from which a zope.org newsletter can be written.


I think watchword for anything we do for zope.org is that we can't 
accomplish it unless it requires the minimum of work to get done. 
Perhaps what we'll end up with is not a newsletter, but if it's useful, 
we should put it on zope.org.


Writing text is cheap. Mining existing links is cheap. Reusing existing 
data and text is cheap.


Regards,

Martijn
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Re: [ZWeb] Python.org is redesigning

2006-01-19 Thread Andrew Sawyers
That looks excellent!  

Andrew
On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 00:18 +0100, Michael Haubenwallner wrote:
 Carlos de la Guardia wrote:
 
  Have you seen http://beta.python.org/ yet? I like the using Python for...
  and written in Python boxes at the right. The design is another thing, but
  let's not go there now.
  
 
 Great link, i've been waiting for it a long time...
 
 Michael
 

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Re: [ZWeb] new zope.org: zope newsletter

2006-01-19 Thread Andrew Sawyers
I asked this in IRC, but don't think I got an answer:  Should I work on
setting up something on one of the current zope.org app servers or do we
have another place where this work will be done.  I started something
awhile back when Sidnei and I got into a conversation about zope.org
salvation and didn't comeplete it.  I can work with Mark at Zope Corp
for us to hace something to show...  I don't care about writing text as
the rest of the group.

If there's no plan, I'll see if Mark can help with enabling us to get
some progress to that end.

Andrew

On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 15:02 +0100, Martijn Faassen wrote:

 Feel free to join in and help us write some more text.
 
 Regards,
 
 Martijn
 
 P.S. We're working in the shadows for now, so please don't announce that 
 we're doing it to the whole world. We first want something to show for it.
 
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Re: [Zope] [Fwd: Zope fails on large task?]

2006-01-19 Thread Luca Olivetti

En/na Jim Fulton ha escrit:


It works for a few people.  If I try too many people it fails with an
   Error reading from remote server
message from the Apache.

I cannot find any hints in the apache or zope logs.  I have tried to
monitor the server to see if any resources are running out, but have not
found anything. 



Can anyone suggest how I try to diagnose this failure. 


Maybe (just maybe) it's a timeout: I saw this when performing a long 
plone migration (though the migration completed anyway). The default 
timeout is 5 minutes, so this is easy to rule out: if the error comes 
out after five minutes it's probably this error (or less if the apache 
configuration uses a lower value).
There are many apache parameters to control the timeout, but IIRC the 
only one that worked here is the Timeout parameter (though I'm not sure 
it solved my issue, I *do* remember that ProxyTimeout, which seemed the 
correct parameter to me, did nothing to prevent the problem).


http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/core.html#timeout
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_proxy.html#proxytimeout

Bye
--
Luca Olivetti
Wetron Automatización S.A. http://www.wetron.es/
Tel. +34 93 5883004  Fax +34 93 5883007
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Re: [Zope] Newbee interfaces and implementations

2006-01-19 Thread Roman Klesel
bruno modulix schrieb:
 So you recommend that I should just skip them as long as I'm on Zope2?
 
 
 Short answer :  yes. Unless you plan to switch to Zope3 really soon, but
 then, I'd recommand that you skip Zope 2.x !-)

No, I'll be with Zope2 for a while. I'm running an Plone site too and dont't
have the memory to run a second Zope3 instance.

I think my question is answered and I'm a little less confused now. :-)

When I heard the word interface I thought of something like a network 
interface,
which is the communication gateway to the entire machine if you address it from 
network:

- you physically connect it to the network by plugging a cable into the NIC
- you address it by calling an address which is assigned to the NIC.

actually all other devices on the network only see the target machine as a 
network interface
and don't know what kind of system it is plugged into until the methods the 
interface provides
trigger routines that reveal more information.

So, now I understand that interfaces in a the Zope2 context have some different 
meaning.

Maybe I should understand them as pseudo interfaces.

Roman

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[Zope] Zope fails on large task?

2006-01-19 Thread David Whiteley
I have a quite complicated data collection and reporting system based on
zope2.7 and postgresql.  All the postgresql stuff is handled by external
scripts.  I have used page templates throughout.  It is running on a
Debian Sarge based system, and uses Apache as a front end.  

 This is my first experience developing with Zope, so I have probably
done things oddly, but...

I have script that generates a large bundle of data dictionary for each
target entity, which is in this case is a person.  I then pass this
data to a script that converts it to XML.  My template repeats over a
list of people, and concatenates and sends the XML for them all to the
user, where a bit of XSLT creates a paged report. 

It works for a few people.  If I try too many people it fails with an
   Error reading from remote server
message from the Apache.

I cannot find any hints in the apache or zope logs.  I have tried to
monitor the server to see if any resources are running out, but have not
found anything. 


Can anyone suggest how I try to diagnose this failure. 

I repeat, I am fairly new to Zope, and so need fairly basic help.

Dave

-- 
Dave Whiteley
The School of Electronic and Electrical Engineering
The University of Leeds
Leeds
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
0113 343 2059

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Re: [Zope] Zope fails on large task?

2006-01-19 Thread Peter Bengtsson
Can you check your memory consumption on the server? It could be that
your application eats up so much memory that your zope can't handle it
and thus times out.
If this is the case you'll need to rewrite your app to NOT create a
too big data structure of dictionaries.

On 1/19/06, David Whiteley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I have a quite complicated data collection and reporting system based on
 zope2.7 and postgresql.  All the postgresql stuff is handled by external
 scripts.  I have used page templates throughout.  It is running on a
 Debian Sarge based system, and uses Apache as a front end.

  This is my first experience developing with Zope, so I have probably
 done things oddly, but...

 I have script that generates a large bundle of data dictionary for each
 target entity, which is in this case is a person.  I then pass this
 data to a script that converts it to XML.  My template repeats over a
 list of people, and concatenates and sends the XML for them all to the
 user, where a bit of XSLT creates a paged report.

 It works for a few people.  If I try too many people it fails with an
Error reading from remote server
 message from the Apache.

 I cannot find any hints in the apache or zope logs.  I have tried to
 monitor the server to see if any resources are running out, but have not
 found anything.


 Can anyone suggest how I try to diagnose this failure.

 I repeat, I am fairly new to Zope, and so need fairly basic help.

 Dave

 --
 Dave Whiteley
 The School of Electronic and Electrical Engineering
 The University of Leeds
 Leeds
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 0113 343 2059

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--
Peter Bengtsson,
work www.fry-it.com
home www.peterbe.com
hobby www.issuetrackerproduct.com
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Re: [Zope] Zope fails on large task?

2006-01-19 Thread Dave Whiteley
On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 12:12 +, Peter Bengtsson wrote:
 Can you check your memory consumption on the server? It could be that
 your application eats up so much memory that your zope can't handle it
 and thus times out.
 If this is the case you'll need to rewrite your app to NOT create a
 too big data structure of dictionaries.
 

I do not think this is happening.  The command top does not indicate
that memory is being filled.

Dave


 
 --
 Peter Bengtsson,
 work www.fry-it.com
 home www.peterbe.com
 hobby www.issuetrackerproduct.com

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[Zope] Software to Administer a Zope Project?

2006-01-19 Thread Pablo Ziliani

Hi everybody,
I want to keep track of a project I am developing in Zope, so basically 
I need some advise on the software I might prefer to adopt. I tried 
trac, but I find it a bit complicated to have to admin everything 
through the shell and also, unless there's an easy way to integrate zodb 
stuff to it, I'm not interested in the svn part, just the project 
management itself (tickets, milestones, etc). I'm not saying that I 
won't use Trac, but maybe I'm just missing something. Zepp is not an option.


Thanks in advance,
Pablo

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Re: [Zope] [Fwd: Zope fails on large task?]

2006-01-19 Thread David Whiteley
Thanks,

This might be the fix.  I too had tried ProxyTimeout without success.

It is now behaving a lot better.  

Dave



On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 09:25 +0100, Luca Olivetti wrote:
 En/na Jim Fulton ha escrit:
 
  It works for a few people.  If I try too many people it fails with an
 Error reading from remote server
  message from the Apache.
  
  I cannot find any hints in the apache or zope logs.  I have tried to
  monitor the server to see if any resources are running out, but have not
  found anything. 
  
  
  Can anyone suggest how I try to diagnose this failure. 
 
 Maybe (just maybe) it's a timeout: I saw this when performing a long 
 plone migration (though the migration completed anyway). The default 
 timeout is 5 minutes, so this is easy to rule out: if the error comes 
 out after five minutes it's probably this error (or less if the apache 
 configuration uses a lower value).
 There are many apache parameters to control the timeout, but IIRC the 
 only one that worked here is the Timeout parameter (though I'm not sure 
 it solved my issue, I *do* remember that ProxyTimeout, which seemed the 
 correct parameter to me, did nothing to prevent the problem).
 
 http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/core.html#timeout
 http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_proxy.html#proxytimeout
 
 Bye
-- 
Dave Whiteley
The School of Electronic and Electrical Engineering
The University of Leeds
Leeds
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
0113 343 2059

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Re: [Zope] Newbee interfaces and implementations

2006-01-19 Thread J Cameron Cooper

Roman Klesel wrote:

bruno modulix schrieb:


So you recommend that I should just skip them as long as I'm on Zope2?



Short answer :  yes. Unless you plan to switch to Zope3 really soon, but
then, I'd recommand that you skip Zope 2.x !-)



No, I'll be with Zope2 for a while. I'm running an Plone site too and dont't
have the memory to run a second Zope3 instance.

I think my question is answered and I'm a little less confused now. :-)

When I heard the word interface I thought of something like a network 
interface,
which is the communication gateway to the entire machine if you address it from 
network:

- you physically connect it to the network by plugging a cable into the NIC
- you address it by calling an address which is assigned to the NIC.

actually all other devices on the network only see the target machine as a 
network interface
and don't know what kind of system it is plugged into until the methods the 
interface provides
trigger routines that reveal more information.

So, now I understand that interfaces in a the Zope2 context have some different 
meaning.


It a programming context, really. You should think of programmatic 
interfaces like the interface between a power supply and a power 
consumer: as long as both agree that the plug should have an end like 
such, and the socket should look so and so, and the voltage is this, it 
doesn't really matter what's generating the power, what's consuming the 
power, or how the plug or socket is made.


--jcc
--
Building Websites with Plone
http://plonebook.packtpub.com/

Enfold Systems, LLC
http://www.enfoldsystems.com
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Re: [Zope] zeopack: No handlers could be found for logger ZEO.zrpc

2006-01-19 Thread Dieter Maurer
Cameron Beattie wrote at 2006-1-19 17:29 +1300:
When I run the following:
python /usr/lib/zope/bin/zeopack.py -d 20 -h localhost -p 8100

I get an error:
No handlers could be found for logger ZEO.zrpc

It's a warning only. You can ignore it.

 ...
In the case of zeopack, the database is not packed i.e. the script doesn't 
work.

I am running Zope 2.8.2 with python 2.4.1.

We use zeopack successfully: Zope 2.8.1, python 2.3.3.
There will almost surely be no differences with respect to your
versions.


-- 
Dieter
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[Zope] NewBee, Do I have to code to do this?

2006-01-19 Thread John Huttley

Hi, I'm recoding an existing php e-commerce app in zope as my first project

I'm at the point where I've installed the exUserFolder product to 
authenticate against an external SQL database.


However, I need to hold some additional information in the user object.

It seems to me that I have to change the exUserFolder product code to 
add this to the class.


This seems odd and not very maintainable.

There are brains for sql, I'm wondering if there are better ways for 
doing this?


Any advice gratefully received.

--john

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Re: [Zope] NewBee, Do I have to code to do this?

2006-01-19 Thread John Huttley

Sorry should have added its zope 2.8 under windows

--john

John Huttley wrote:
Hi, I'm recoding an existing php e-commerce app in zope as my first 
project


I'm at the point where I've installed the exUserFolder product to 
authenticate against an external SQL database.


However, I need to hold some additional information in the user object.

It seems to me that I have to change the exUserFolder product code to 
add this to the class.


This seems odd and not very maintainable.

There are brains for sql, I'm wondering if there are better ways for 
doing this?


Any advice gratefully received.

--john

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[Zope] Class instances changing address?

2006-01-19 Thread Jeff Gentry
Hello ...

I'm running Zope 2.7.3 w/ python 2.4.1.  I'm in the process of developing
a FS based product as a primary class w/ many sub-classes.  I've been
experiencing a problem which I thought I had completely nixed but
apparently only partly so and now am out of ideas as to what might be the
source of the problem.

As background, the primary class (A) maintains a handle to an instance of
another class (B) which handles interaction w/ a psycopg db
controller.  Class A also will instantiate several instances of Class C
and as part of the construction will pass it the handle to class B.  So in
summary, A has a B and has 1:n C's, and C has a reference to B.  A  B
have physical representations in the ZMI, while instances of C are
'virtual'.

What is happening at times is that all of a sudden any call from C to B
(ie C is accessing the DB) will result in Zope reporting that it could not
find the psycopg controller, and indeed when this happens, any call
through B via C will show that B can not find any DB controllers (using
SQLConnectionIDs()).  When I looked a bit closer, I had C's instance of B
do a 'print instanceOfB' before calling out to B, which looked like this
in the console:
B instance at 2a9d564da0

What I found was at the moment that things stopped working, the address of
the instance was changed, which explains a lot.  However, I can not figure
out why this would happen - as far as I can tell the B instance is not
being reassigned in any capacity in my code.  Also, this seems to happen a
bit nondeterministically (although I'm sure it isn't really) in that the
same set of operations will not always have the same result here - it
might cause the above switch/failure in one run through but not the next 3
times.

I wish I could post some relevent code but the code base but given that
I'm not at all sure what section of the code might be causing this and the
code base is several thousand lines long, that'sn ot really possible :(
What I was hoping was that people might have some ideas as to what I might
be doing wrong here (and admittedly I tought myself Zope  Python mostly
from other Zope products and trial  error so there might be some key
issue that I'm totally missing).

Thanks in advance
Jeff

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Re: [Zope] zeopack: No handlers could be found for logger ZEO.zrpc

2006-01-19 Thread Tim Peters
[Cameron Beattie]
 When I run the following:
 python /usr/lib/zope/bin/zeopack.py -d 20 -h localhost -p 8100

 I get an error:
 No handlers could be found for logger ZEO.zrpc

As Dieter said, that's not an error in and of itself, it's just
Python's logging module whining at you.  ZEO.zrpc is trying to log a
message of some sort, but the logging module hasn't been set up to
accept the request.  The message ZEO.zrpc is _trying_ to log may or
may not be important.  To find out, we'll have to see the message.

 I have searched around and found a similar message at
 http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2005-December/026097.html (relating
 to zeoup.py) but I didn't understand what needs to be done to remedy the
 problem.

Is it true that you don't know how to edit Python code?  The first
response to that message suggested adding:

import logging
logging.basicConfig()

to the code, and it's hard to know what to say if you don't know how
to do that.  If you know how to use an editor, add those two lines to
your copy of zeopack.py, for example immediately following its:

if __name__ == __main__:

line.  If those instructions don't make sense, show them to someone else ;-)

 In the case of zeopack, the database is not packed i.e. the script doesn't
 work.

Finding out what the log message is may or may not reveal a cause for
that.  You should also look at your ZEO server's log file, since
problems with the database will be logged there by the ZEO server
code.  In fact, if there _is_ a problem with the database file (e.g.,
it's corrupted in some way), the only useful information you're going
to get will be in the server's log file, and ZEO.zrpc on the client
side would just try to log a message saying that the server was
unhappy.  It's possible that's what's happening here, but not enough
info to say for sure.

 I am running Zope 2.8.2 with python 2.4.1.
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Re: [Zope] Zope fails on large task?

2006-01-19 Thread David




Dave Whiteley wrote:

  On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 12:12 +, Peter Bengtsson wrote:
  
  
Can you check your memory consumption on the server? It could be that
your application eats up so much memory that your zope can't handle it
and thus times out.
If this is the case you'll need to rewrite your app to NOT create a
too big data structure of dictionaries.


  
  
I do not think this is happening.  The command "top" does not indicate
that memory is being filled.

Dave


  
  
--
Peter Bengtsson,
work www.fry-it.com
home www.peterbe.com
hobby www.issuetrackerproduct.com

  
  
  

David
I missed your fuller explanation. How big are the responses back to
the client browsers?  Is there a zope.conf directive that limits the
size of responses to client browser? 

If you can get the size then you can try and duplicate with a very
large HTML file. And send that as a response to see if its just a size
problem?

Anyway I hope someone can help you. If you solve this please post to
the list.

D




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Re: [Zope] NewBee, Do I have to code to do this?

2006-01-19 Thread Bakhtiar A Hamid
On 1/20/06, John Huttley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sorry should have added its zope 2.8 under windows--johnJohn Huttley wrote: Hi, I'm recoding an existing php e-commerce app in zope as my first project I'm at the point where I've installed the exUserFolder product to
 authenticate against an external SQL database. However, I need to hold some additional information in the user object. It seems to me that I have to change the exUserFolder product code to
 add this to the class.

check out authentication source. also, check out all the docs in the xuf ta ball. iirc, there's a faq for this..

hth
 This seems odd and not very maintainable. There are brains for sql, I'm wondering if there are better ways for
 doing this? Any advice gratefully received. --john ___ Zope maillist-Zope@zope.org
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Re: [Zope] NewBee, Do I have to code to do this?

2006-01-19 Thread David




Bakhtiar A Hamid wrote:

  
  On 1/20/06, John Huttley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
  Sorry
should have added its zope 2.8 under windows

--john

John Huttley wrote:
 Hi, I'm recoding an existing php e-commerce app in zope as my first
 project

 I'm at the point where I've installed the exUserFolder product to

 authenticate against an external SQL database.

 However, I need to hold some additional information in the user
object.

 It seems to me that I have to change the exUserFolder product code
to

 add this to the class.

  
  
check out authentication source. also, check out all the docs in the
xuf ta ball. iirc, there's a faq for this..
  
hth
  
  
  
This seems odd and not very maintainable.

 There are brains for sql, I'm wondering if there are better ways
for

 doing this?

 Any advice gratefully received.

 --john

  

I use SimpleUserfolder to authenticatate against postgres. Its easy to
add addional user information. Heres a short version of how this
similar product works:
a) you store authentication data in an SQL table (or anywhere thats
persistent).
b) you write a handful of scripts to satisfy Zope's authentication
machinary (examples are provided).
c) you can obtain additional user information by calling your SQL
tables with userID, eg obtain their phone, fax and socials - or right
after authentication you can stuff the users details into SESSION.


David


David



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Re: [Zope] NewBee, Do I have to code to do this?

2006-01-19 Thread Andrew Milton
+---[ John Huttley ]--
| 
| Hi, I'm recoding an existing php e-commerce app in zope as my first
| project
|
| I'm at the point where I've installed the exUserFolder product to
| authenticate against an external SQL database.
| 
| However, I need to hold some additional information in the user object.
| 
| It seems to me that I have to change the exUserFolder product code to
| add this to the class.

All you need to do is configure a property source.

You can store properties in the ZODB or in SQL, or pretty much anywhere.

-- 
Andrew Milton
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Zope] zeopack: No handlers could be found for logger ZEO.zrpc

2006-01-19 Thread Cameron Beattie
Thanks for the help. Adding the following (as suggested) resolved the 
problem:


   import logging
   logging.basicConfig()

Regards

Cameron 


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[Zope] SOLUTION -- Products have incorrect home attribute

2006-01-19 Thread George Lee
 After migrating to a new server, several of my Zope products have an
 incorrect home attribute that specifies where they live on the
 filesystem. However, when I try to change these attributes using an
 external method, the attributes do not change. Any help?
 
 Peace,
 George


Turns out it was a bug in my external method, writing == instead of =, that
tripped me up. This is the external method I used:



OLD_INSTANCE_PROD_DIR_LIST = [
   '/home/BLUH1/zope/instance1/Products/',
   '/home/BLUH2/zope/instance1/Products/',
   ]
NEW_INSTANCE_PROD_DIR = '/usr/local/zope/instance1/Products/'

OLD_PYTHON_PROD_DIR_LIST = [
   '/usr/home/BLUH3/zope/270/lib/python/Products/',
   '/home/BLUH4/zope/273/lib/python/Products/',
   '/home/BLUH5/zope/281/lib/python/Products/',
   ]
NEW_PYTHON_PROD_DIR = '/usr/local/zope/284/lib/python/Products/'

def listHome(self):
   prods = self.Control_Panel.Products
   listBefore = []
   listAfter = []

   for p in prods.objectIds():
  homeBefore = prods._getOb(p).home
  listBefore = listBefore + [homeBefore]
  if homeBefore in map( lambda x : x + p, OLD_INSTANCE_PROD_DIR_LIST ):
 prods._getOb(p).home = NEW_INSTANCE_PROD_DIR + p
  elif homeBefore in map( lambda x : x + p, OLD_PYTHON_PROD_DIR_LIST ):
 prods._getOb(p).home = NEW_PYTHON_PROD_DIR + p
  listAfter = listAfter + [prods._getOb(p).home]

   return Before: %s\n\nAfter: %s % (str(listBefore),str(listAfter))

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Re: [Zope] Zope MailTemplates

2006-01-19 Thread Chris Withers

Hi All,

Sorry for the delay in replying, been away...

Erik Myllymaki wrote:

the complaint is not mine but is from the marketing department :)

in Thunderbird (on Windows anyway) it adds a black mark in place of the 
newline :-0


Ah, I always wondered what that was!
(I see them from the zope checkins emails)

Does anyone know how to work around this?

One other thing though, is that when using MailTemplates, i haven't 
found a way to include BCC and CC recipients without altering MailHost.py.


Hmm, I guess the docs need a bit of clarification :-S
How are you calling the template?

As an example, you can just call the mail template with:

container.my_mt(mcc=('[EMAIL PROTECTED]','[EMAIL PROTECTED]')
mbcc=('[EMAIL PROTECTED]',))

cheers,

Chris

--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope  Python Consulting
   - http://www.simplistix.co.uk

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