[Zope] File referencing and LocalFS

2000-07-05 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Hi Rogerio

1)Folders names are directly related to string fields 
in a MySQL database which use spaces between words (eg 
New York), but folders names don't use spaces (eg 
NewYork). How can I skip spaces from database fields to 
make them refer to these folders (eg New York -- 
NewYork)?

I python it's just :

foldername = string.join(colname, '')

using a "blank" ('') between each string, in other words, with no delimiter.

So, in Zope it's something like :

dtml-call "REQUEST.set('foldername',_.string.join(colname, ''))"

assuming you've already assigned "colname" from a ZSQL Method.

2)Using LocalFS, can I do something like dtml-
var "localfsObject['dtml-var par1'].['dtml-var 
par11'], where par1 and par11 are folder names (after 
skiping spaces)?

According to the Local FS docs*, this would be :

dtml-var "localfsObject['par1']['par11']"

Keep in mind that inside a dtml tag you can refer to objects by name, 
without redundant dtml tags, and even without the quotes, 
if you're not calling a method of the object :

dtml-var localfsObject

Good Luck,
Jerry S.

* http://www.zope.org/Members/jfarr/HowTo/DTML_with_LocalFS


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RE: [Zope] File referencing and LocalFS

2000-07-05 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Hi Marco,

From: Marco Mariani [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Subject: Re: [Zope] File referencing and LocalFS

 
  foldername = string.join(colname, '')
 
 using a "blank" ('') between each string, in other words, with no
delimiter.

Maybe you meant

foldername = string.join(string.split(colname,' '),'')

or

foldername = string.replace(colname,' ','')

because join takes a list, not a string.

Yes, you are correct!


Later,
Jerry S.


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[Zope] Date time format

2000-07-19 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

The DTML User Guide has an "Appendix A" that shows lot's of options, but no
examples. Anyhow, see:

http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Guides/DTML-HTML/DTML.18.html

You can use these like so:

dtml-var ZopeTime fmt=="%Y/%m/%d"

dtml-var ZopeTime fmt=="AMPM"

dtml-call "REQUEST.set('d_Date',ZopeTime().strftime('%Y/%m/%d'))"
dtml-var d_Date

dtml-call "REQUEST.set('d_Date',ZopeTime().strftime('AMPM'))"
dtml-var d_Date

You can also use Python slicing syntax to do something
totally ridiculous like this:

dtml-call "REQUEST.set('z_t',ZopeTime())"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('z_sec',_.int(z_t))"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('day_t',_.string.split(_.str(z_t))[1])"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('hour_sec',_.int(_.string.split(day_t,':')[0]) *
3600)"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('min_sec',_.int(_.string.split(day_t,':')[1]) *60)"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('sec_t',_.string.split(day_t,':')[2])"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('sec_sec',_.int(_.string.split(sec_t,'.')[0]))"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('sum_sec', hour_sec + min_sec + sec_sec - 1)"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('start_sec', _.int(z_t) - sum_sec)"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('end_sec', start_sec + 86398)"

dtml-var "_.DateTime(start_sec)" fmt="AMPM"br
dtml-var "_.DateTime(end_sec)" fmt="AMPM"br

to find the first and last seconds of a date.

Have a good time!
Jerry S.








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[Zope] RE: Date time format

2000-07-19 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Oops! Change those "==" to just single "=".
Too much Python on the brain . . .

-Original Message-----
From: Spicklemire, Jerry 
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 12:15 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: Date time format


The DTML User Guide has an "Appendix A" that shows lot's of options, but no
examples. Anyhow, see:

http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Guides/DTML-HTML/DTML.18.html

You can use these like so:

dtml-var ZopeTime fmt=="%Y/%m/%d"

dtml-var ZopeTime fmt=="AMPM"

dtml-call "REQUEST.set('d_Date',ZopeTime().strftime('%Y/%m/%d'))"
dtml-var d_Date

dtml-call "REQUEST.set('d_Date',ZopeTime().strftime('AMPM'))"
dtml-var d_Date

You can also use Python slicing syntax to do something
totally ridiculous like this:

dtml-call "REQUEST.set('z_t',ZopeTime())"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('z_sec',_.int(z_t))"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('day_t',_.string.split(_.str(z_t))[1])"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('hour_sec',_.int(_.string.split(day_t,':')[0]) *
3600)"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('min_sec',_.int(_.string.split(day_t,':')[1]) *60)"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('sec_t',_.string.split(day_t,':')[2])"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('sec_sec',_.int(_.string.split(sec_t,'.')[0]))"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('sum_sec', hour_sec + min_sec + sec_sec - 1)"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('start_sec', _.int(z_t) - sum_sec)"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('end_sec', start_sec + 86398)"

dtml-var "_.DateTime(start_sec)" fmt="AMPM"br
dtml-var "_.DateTime(end_sec)" fmt="AMPM"br

to find the first and last seconds of a date.

Have a good time!
Jerry S.








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[Zope] Reversing acquisition?

2000-07-20 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Ramalho wrote:

"""
- Containment: Search the object, then its container, then the
container's container, and so on. Ignore objects not in this chain.

- Context: Search the objects in precisely the reverse of the order in
which they were mentioned, so "A.B.C.D" is always searched in the order
"D", "C", "B", "A".

"""

But for me, A.B.C.D means that A contains B; B contains C; and C
contains D, so I don´t see the difference from the first definition.

There's a good slide in Michel's presentation at the open source conference.

Imagine:

  
  | -  - | 
  | | B |  |   C   | |
  | -  | - | |
  || | D | | |
  |   A| - | |
  ||   | |
  |- |
  

So that "A" is a folder, 
"B" is an object in "A", 
"C" is a subfolder in "A",
and "D" is an object in "C".

Then "B" is acquirable by "D", or any object in "C", but "B" is not
contained in either "C" or "D".
  
Later,
Jerry S.



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[Zope] RE: Reversing acquisition?

2000-07-20 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

"B" is acquirable by "C" and "D", because it is within the context of a
common container, "A". However, some other object, "E" that is acquired from
higher up the containment chain may be affected by the nature of the "B"
that is available to "D". Because of that, the "E" may appear differently
than it would if presented as a component from some other containment chain.


An easy example to grasp is to think of "B" as defining the background color
of a page. If "E" is the master page template, other "B" objects in other
chains could define the color scheme for the all the objects ("pages") in
the parent folder. 

That's context.

-Original Message-
From: Luciano Ramalho [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 1:23 PM
To: Spicklemire, Jerry
Subject: Re: Reversing acquisition?


Great ASCII illustration! I see what you mean. But I still don´t see the
difference between "containment" and "context" as defined in the
AquisitionUsage Wiki (quoted below).

[]s
Luciano


"Spicklemire, Jerry" wrote:
 
 Ramalho wrote:
 
 """
 - Containment: Search the object, then its container, then the
 container's container, and so on. Ignore objects not in this chain.
 
 - Context: Search the objects in precisely the reverse of the order in
 which they were mentioned, so "A.B.C.D" is always searched in the order
 "D", "C", "B", "A".
 
 """
 
 But for me, A.B.C.D means that A contains B; B contains C; and C
 contains D, so I don´t see the difference from the first definition.
 
 There's a good slide in Michel's presentation at the open source
conference.
 
 Imagine:
 
   
   | -  - |
   | | B |  |   C   | |
   | -  | - | |
   || | D | | |
   |   A| - | |
   ||   | |
   |- |
   
 
 So that "A" is a folder,
 "B" is an object in "A",
 "C" is a subfolder in "A",
 and "D" is an object in "C".
 
 Then "B" is acquirable by "D", or any object in "C", but "B" is not
 contained in either "C" or "D".
 
 Later,
 Jerry S.



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[Zope] Your feedback: what should DateTime strftime() behavior be?

2000-07-25 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

+1


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[Zope] Upload on a local File System

2000-08-08 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Francois wrote:

Hi, I d like to upload on a Local File System. I would like to use a
form, choose a file and i d like that Zope upload the file on the
LocalFS. I ve met some troubles, could you help me?

See Jonathan Farr's LocalFS product, which now (since v.0.8.1) allows 
file uploads to the local file system.

http://www.zope.org/Members/jfarr/Products/LocalFS

Later,
Jerry S.


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[Zope] Multiple record input into Postgresql

2000-08-10 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

William wrote:

 inserts to a variable, say x1, into a postgresql table.  
 However, there is an additional variable, x2 that would 
 have to be only entered once and would be the same for 
 every record for which a different x1 is entered.  
 
 it seems the dtml-in should do this.

Assign the variable x2.

dtml-call "REQUEST.set('x2',some_known_value)"

Create a list of all the x1 variables. This step could be 
a sql method, if the variables already exist in a table.

dtml-in sql_to_create_x1_list
/dtml-in

Assign the value of sequence-item to variable this_x1.

dtml-call "REQUEST.set('this_x1',_['sequence-item'])"

Create a sql method to execute the inserts, and call it 
from within the first sql method, called using dtml-in.
Be sure to include "arguments" this_x1, x2.

dtml-var sql_insert_this_x1_x2

So, altogether now:

dtml-call "REQUEST.set('x2',some_known_value)"
dtml-in sql_to_create_x1_list
 dtml-call "REQUEST.set('this_x1',_['sequence-item'])"
 dtml-var sql_insert_this_x1_x2
/dtml-in

The dtml-in statement retrieves the cursor, calling the 
sql_insert for each item (sequence-item).





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[Zope] HTTP_ACCEPT

2000-08-16 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Greetings Zope Fans,

There is a value included in "REQUEST" called HTTP_ACCEPT. 
Is there a way within Zope to reset this value? 

The default seems to be "*/*", but our sysadmin says Zope 
would get along better if we can change it to include the 
alias that Zope has been assigned by our Proxy Server.

Thanks!
Jery S.


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[Zope] Amazing Disappearing Self

2000-08-17 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Hi Zope Fans,

Has anyone seen a case where acquisition works, but only 
in the topmost folder? The site I'm working on shows no 
problem on a test server, but upon moving to a 
production server any URL pointing to a subfolder, or a 
document contained in a subfolder returns an error 
(below).

The production server is Red Hat linux, Zope 2.1.6

A Proxy (running on a separate server) re-directs URLS 
to the top folder of the Zope tree, just below "root". 
The oddest part is that elements available in the "root" 
(standard_html_header, and other elements called within) 
show up on the same "page" as the error message. 

It's as if Zope is working partially, but after displaying 
all the elements at the top of the tree, the silly 
document can't find itself . . .

BTW, the raw URL (as seen in REQUEST) contains lot's of 
cookie garbage which may be causing the problem. I have 
added something like 

base href="dtml-relative_path;"

as suggested in some "How-Tos" at Zope.org. This got me to 
the point of having the top folder render correctly, which 
was better than I had seen up to that point. Alas, that's 
where progress stopped altogether.

On the test server everything "just worked", the way you 
sort of get used to with Zope . . .

The worst part is that some of the errors I'm seeing spill 
the guts of the cookie all over the browser screen.

BTW, what does it take to get standard_error_message to 
actually do what the dtml implies, to substitute the 
contents of an error_message object, where it exists?

Thanks,
Jerry S.

(here's that error message) 

Zope has encountered an error while publishing this resource. 

Resource not found

Sorry, the requested Zope resource does not exist.
Check the URL and try again.




Troubleshooting Suggestions

The URL may be incorrect. 
The parameters passed to this resource may be incorrect. 
A resource that this resource relies on may be encountering an error. 
For more detailed information about the error, please refer to the HTML
source for this page. 

If the error persists please contact the site maintainer. Thank you for your
patience. 

Traceback (innermost last):
  File /l01/Zope-2.1.6-linux2-x86/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line
214, in publish_module
  File /l01/Zope-2.1.6-linux2-x86/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line
179, in publish
  File /l01/Zope-2.1.6-linux2-x86/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line 202, in
zpublisher_exception_hook
(Object: ApplicationDefaultPermissions)
  File /l01/Zope-2.1.6-linux2-x86/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line
151, in publish
  File /l01/Zope-2.1.6-linux2-x86/lib/python/ZPublisher/BaseRequest.py, line
308, in traverse
  File /l01/Zope-2.1.6-linux2-x86/lib/python/OFS/Application.py, line 249,
in __bobo_traverse__
(Object: ApplicationDefaultPermissions)
  File /l01/Zope-2.1.6-linux2-x86/lib/python/ZPublisher/HTTPResponse.py,
line 511, in notFoundError
NotFound: (see above)


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[Zope] Re. Generic Workflow Products?

2000-08-23 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Cary wrote:

 come to the realization that many applications boil
 down to workflow management.

The ZPatterns project the Phil Eby and Ty Sarna are running 
is intended to lay the groundwork for just what you want. 
They call it "SWARM", and if memory serves, the "W" is for 
"Workflow". ZPatterns has been incorporated into the next 
rev. of the Portal Tool Kit to some degree.

http://www.zope.org/Members/pje/Wikis/ZPatterns/HomePage

http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-ptk/


The discussion below is from:
http://www.zope.org/Members/pje/Wikis/ZPatterns/SummarizedVersion

"   Other applications of ZPatterns

stevea: I'm using it to support a Product Line Infrastructure -- a bunch of
related applications that reuse bits of each other but in differnet
contexts. However, I've only got the first app so far :-)

JeffH?: We need to build a workflow system. We need to build a content
management system. We need to build a customer relationship management
system. I only want to build each one once. They must, at some point,
cooperate with each other depending on the context in which they are being
used.

roche: we also need to build a customer relationship system

rdmurray: We could probably use a community collaboration on a CRM project.

MrTopf?: wonders if he could use ZPatterns for his Groupware ideas..

SWARM

pje: ZPatterns is the basis for another system Ty and I will be building,
called SWARM... State-based Workflow And Resource Management So, it is
probably a good match for other workflow apps.

stevea: I've seen that acronym somewhere inthe Wiki I think. Will SWARM be
open source or verio internal?

pje: Open source.

tsarna: (pje and I are arguing as to weather propertysheets on users already
work or not... hold on :)

pje: The idea is that there will be Plans, which have Phases, Events, and
Roles. Then "ObjectsWithPlans" will use the plan as a kind of state-based
attribute provider. You can actually do state-based stuff now, using just
GAPs?.

jean: I'm champing at the bit to show off something like SWARM at work.
Stuff like Journyx and an inhouse issue tracker are being pushed, and I feel
they're steps backwards. We're going to have to zopify some anyway, better
to invest more in it, not disperse across other cruft."

To me ZPatterns and SWARM represent an even higher level of Zope development
that
will impact Zope Deployment similarly to the way Visual Basic changed
Windows Development. Watching this take shape is kind of like knowing about
the Normandy Invasion about six months ahead of time.

Later,
Jerry S..

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[Zope] Microsoft SQL Server Access under Linux?

2000-08-23 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Darin asked:

 Is it possible to access an ODBC data source through Zope running under
Linux?

I'm getting ready to test such a solution this week. First, we'll try :

ODBC Socket Server  http://odbc.linuxave.net/

and the accompanying Python Client. This will require some coding, and
wrapping the Python Client as an External Method. ODBC Socket Server isn't
the most generic approach I've seen, but it is about as simple as such stuff
can get.

If that one doesn't pan out, it's on to :

SQLRelay
http://www.firstworks.com/site/pages/html/frames.html

which is more generic, and even has a Zope Database Adapter.

My fallback plan, assuming insurmountable snags with the first two attempts
is:

FreeTDS http://www.freetds.org/

which is SQL Server specific, and so the least generic of all.

Then, if all else fails, we'll have to look at the OpenLink (for $) stuff.

OpenLinkhttp://www.openlinksw.com/

I'll let you know how it goes.

Later,
Jerry S..

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[Zope] Re. Linux and ODBC

2000-08-24 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Hi Folks, 

Just to follow up on the plan to test ODBC Socket Server. We now have a
working copy resident on a NT test system here, which enables us to ship
queries across the LAN from Unix / Linux land to hit against Windows Native
(ODBC) data stores, and get back datasets as XML. So far, it works like a
champ, and it comes with a handy little Python demo client app. 

All I need to do now is wrap an enhanced client process as an external
method, and voila, a whole bunch of sticky wickets will get smoothed out!

you can get it at:  http://odbc.linuxave.net/

More Later,
Jerry S..

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[Zope] Simple(?) Syntax Question (dtml-in)

2000-08-25 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Tim asked:

I want to only provide the first item of each list in this
SELECT:

You can use Python "slice" syntax, where the first item of a sequence (index
position 0), is indicated like: listname[0]

try:

dtml-in valid_prj
  dtml-call "REQUEST.set('val_prj_seq_item', _['sequence-item'][0])"
  OPTION value="dtml-val_prj_seq_item;"dtml-var
"val_prj_seq_item"/OPTION
/dtml-in
 

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[Zope] FW: Simple(?) Syntax Question (dtml-in)

2000-08-25 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Actually, there are some extraneous "" in the prior post. Here's a corrected
version:

dtml-in valid_prj
  dtml-call "REQUEST.set('val_prj_seq_item', _['sequence-item'][0])"
  OPTION value="dtml-val_prj_seq_item;"dtml-var
val_prj_seq_item/OPTION
/dtml-in 

I also should have mentioned that this approach allows use of the dtml-x;
"entity syntax", within tags..

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[Zope] Re. Advice for new zope installation

2000-08-28 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Henk Schets wonders:

- how easy and reliably can I manage my virtual hosts (about 8 sites
right now) ? Very important.

The SiteAccess product contributed by Evan Simpson is a popular solution.

http://www.zope.org/Members/4am/SiteAccess2


- how stable is Zope regarding to Apache on Linux ?

That's how "the Zope Folks" at Digital Creations run Zope, so I'd guess 
it's about a clean as can be. However, there is more than one approach. 

Probably the easiest is ZAP, which comes with a preconfigured Apache.

http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/Products/Zap

Start here:

http://www.zope.org/Members/guy_davis/install_routes

Below is the tip of the iceberg from a search on "apache", at Zope.org

http://www.zope.org/Members/shaw/HowTo/ApacheFrontEnd

http://www.zope.org/Members/nemeth/howtos/zopeandapacherh61

http://www.zope.org/Members/anser/apache_zserver

http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/HowTos/ApacheRewriting

http://www.zope.org/Members/kedai/apache_zope_fcgi


- we have a MySql database, is it easy to connect with Zope ?

Lot's of folks use MySQL with Zope, and there's a ready made "DA" 
(database adapter) just for this purpose.

http://www.zope.org/Members/mordred/ZMySQLDA


- can I access the Zope internal database with e.g. ODBC ?

So far, no. New and interesting ways of storing Zope Objects are being 
developed though, so let's not count this one out.


- can I use log analyzers to get some statistics about our site ?

Zope does do some logging, but I don't know much about that. 
Maybe someone could answer?


- any advice about migrating an existing site ?

One handy item that I have used is Jonathan Farr's LocalFS. This way 
you can keep serving static pages and images "directly" from a local 
file system, and frees you to decide when the time is right to turn 
all those icons into Zope Objects.

http://www.zope.org/Members/jfarr/Products/LocalFS

Also, leverage your MySQL for all its worth. The more stuff you can 
abstract into tables and treat as lists, the more you'll like Zope!

Later,
Jerry S.


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[Zope] Looking for Zope vs. Others at-a-glance comparison

2000-09-12 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Richard Moon says:

Zope offers the potential to be the perfect development environment with 
tons of really good solutions off the shelf - these can be customised if 
they have to, we can drop down to Python if we really need to. Perfect.

Unfortunately its been difficult to get discussions like this going on 
zope.org as its mainly devoted to coding problems, while zope-dev is to do 
with deep and complex zopezen.

Many very helpful goodies have been contributed, and are available under
"Downloads". However, as we've seen so often, documentation is the last 
thing on the priority list, so these gems are mostly still quite rough. 

It looks like a great deal of value can be added to Zope in the form of 
ultra-easy integration of stuff that already exists, and step-by-step, 
"hold my hand" How-To docs to makes sure even the greenest Newbies can 
make the most of what's there.

Thanks for all the cogent comments!
Jerry S.

 


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[Zope] RE: Looking for Zope vs. Others at-a-glance comparison

2000-09-19 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

-Original Message-
From: Richard Moon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 11:43 AM
To: Spicklemire, Jerry; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Looking for Zope vs. Others at-a-glance comparison

Perhaps there should be someone producing an 'approved' list of 
products that meet certain standards of ease of installation, 
documentation etc.

Funny you should mention that. It sounds exactly like something I asked for
about a year ago. It may be the perfect time to raise this point again,
though, with the PTK getting ever closer to final release, the ZDP starting
to gain some dircet support and validation, and the DC Business Partners
program being formalized. 

So far it's pretty much up to each of us to decide whether or not this or
that package is useful. There are some hints, when lot's of posts rave about
how great one of the contributed goodies is.

It would be great to have a "seal of approval" for contributions that meet
minumum standards, with complete checklist of usability, ease of
installation, documentation etc.

Good Idea!
Jerry S.

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[Zope] Close your eyes . . .

2000-09-21 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

and pretend that Zope can do this today!

http://standardbrains.editthispage.com/

This is where we're headed with DAV, XML / DOM, Zope Studio, etc.

Sorry the demo only works (today) with MS IE v. 5+. If you can get 
to a desktop with this installed, it is such a trip to swipe some 
content, and edit in place, without a #%@ text box! So this is what 
Tim Berners Lee had in mind with that funny little put method . . .

Later,
Jerry S.

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[Zope] DTML Loop, is there a 'continue'?

2000-09-22 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Hi Zope Fans, 

I'm about searched out trying to find any discussion about calling a normal 
"continue" statement, as in Python, from DTML. Any ideas?

I just want to short circuit a dtml-in loop for one pass, and then finish
the rest of the loop, based on a parameter.

Thanks,
Jerry S.

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[Zope] Guess Who . . .

2000-09-25 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

 . . . has a opening posted on their Web Site for a C/C++ programmer with 
Zope / Python experience?

http://www-3.ibm.com/employment/us/empl/jofK23137.html

Email Software Engineer (CA-K23137)
  
Category: Software
Location: CA
Division: Other Divisions 

Work as a part of a small team developing a hosted domain e-mail service for
small businesses. 

 Desired Skills 
Excellent C/C++ coding skills, Unix Development experience (FreeBSD, AIX,
Linux a plus), Experience with OPEN SOURCE code (or work with legacy code),
Working knowledge of SMTP, sendmail, POP3, IMAP, LDAP, Experience with
scripted HTML languages (ZOPE, Python) a plus 

 Education Required 
Bachelors Degree 
Computer Science (or equivalent) required 

 Experience Required 
Six years work related experience  

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[Zope] String manipulation

2000-09-26 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

"how can I manage it to cut a string.

for example:

a string property (testtext) with 500 words.

but only want to give out 20 characters of tis text."

Python sequence slicing syntax can be done with DTML, like so:

dtml-call "REQUEST.set('first_20_char', '_['some_long"string'][:20])"
dtml-var first_20_char

wher the '[:20]' means from the begining of the string, through the 20th
"slice". 
One thing to be aware of is that the positions start counting at 0, and are
best thought of as falling "between" the individual characters, like so:

 a b c d e f g
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

So the 20th position ('slice') is just past the 19th character, if the first
character is counted as 0.

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[Zope] FYI: Python product tutorial updated

2000-10-02 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Hi Brian,

Regarding:

 I'd be very interested to hear any ideas you folks have 
 on ways to help "make simple things simple" for development 
 and to allow people to deal with complexity only as they 
 begin to need it...

One of the features the stands when a newbies starts poking 
around at Zope.org is the wealth of contributed modules. 
Most of these were created as an aid to development, sort 
of a "make the process of creating a complex thing into a 
simpler process" approach. 

However, it's kind of like all the goodies available for 
Linux, or Perl, or Python itself, and any number of other 
Open Source projects that have generated lot's of add-ons. 
The problem is that finding time to try them all to see 
which turn out to be useful is another kind of complexity 
in itself.

It seems like the Zope community should be able to benefit 
by leveraging all the great stuff that's there. On the other 
hand, the sheer volume turns out to be a barrier.

I keep coming back to the notion of building a subset of the 
most useful, solid, and well documented modules into a "core" 
Zope distribution, so that they are available as "add" 
options without lot's unzipping, restarting, etc. 

Beyond that, a painless way to upgrade versions of all things 
Zope would definitely encourage folks to keep up with 
security fixes, and other improvements. Think about Debian's 
and FreeBSD's update tools.

In order to get to the "consulting ware" vision of a more 
productiive Zope, "out of the box", this is the kind of 
thinking that needs to be adopted. We know there are 
wonderful and astounding things that are possible if you 
aren't afraid to get your hands dirty reading source code, 
but most folks expect anything they need to do to be sitting 
there waiting behind a menu option!

This sounds to me like a higher level of object creation, 
Martijn Faassen's Formulator comes to mind, that can be 
selected and integrated into an existing site that has 
graphic standards already defined, which is itself another 
high level object that could help. A Graphic Standards 
"Template" that can be applied in the form of a "wrapper", 
and can be adjusted trough a forms based interface with 
options for colors, type style, background images, etc.

Thanks,
Jerry S.

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[Zope] Variable name use in with statement

2000-10-13 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Scott Butchill wonders if:

"there is a simpler way to do this."

Not much simpler, but how about:

dtml-call "REQUEST.set('user_select', ['walkon', 'fullhouse'])"
dtml-with bid_records
 dtml-in user_select
  dtml-if "_.str(REQUEST.form['selection']) == _['sequence-item']"
   dtml-with "_['sequence-item']"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('cur_bidder', bidder)"
   /dtml-with
  dtml-elif "_['sequence-index'] == -1
   dtml-with snoopy
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('cur_bidder', bidder)"
   /dtml-with
  /dtml-if
 /dtml-in
/dtml-with

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[Zope] Q: Advantages of storing ZODB in RDBMS

2000-10-13 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Daniel asked:

"Can anyone explain what the advantages are of using 
an RDBMS for Zope object storage over the standard file 
system storage?"

The folks I know that have asked for that feature have 
stated their concerns as being:

Keeping everything in a single large file is risky,
since if that file becomes corrupted, the entire 
Web Site will be down until recovery is complete.

The other side of that one goes something 
like, "As if we've never seen systems down
for RDBMS recovery".

Keeping data in a form that's more accessible by 
external systems is an advantage.

And the comeback for that is, "This stuff
is not tabular, it's Web Content, and Code". 
It's not like you can run queries against it,
and print reports.

Using an RDBMS that has online backup, and quick
recovery features is cheap insurance.

Cheap is relative. if you happen to have an
expensive RDBMS, maybe you can call using it
for one more applicaiotn "cheap".

Making a copy of data.fs is pretty easy, and
recovery is completed by copying over a 
damaged file. Not exactly rocket science.

Also, Tranalyzer makes it pretty painless to 
recover up to the last good update, which is 
usually more than you can get from a backup!

As you can see, I don't "get" the arguments, but that's what 
people say, and if they happen to be the people who can veto 
Zope, you try to find a way to meet their requirements.

Later,
Jerry S.



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[Zope] Python/Perl methods?

2000-10-19 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Oliver asked:

 I've been looking at that new book's draft on the Zope website and I'm
 wondering what chapter 7 is talking about. Where in Zope can I find a
 "restricted Python method" or a "restricted Perl method"? I've never
 seen those. Does anyone know, please?

Keep in mind that the Zope Book is being compiled as a draft of a document
to be delivered in the future. Some of the stuff refered to isn't really
"there yet", in terms of inclusion as a standard part of the Zope download
package. Python Methods are available, but as an add-on. Perl methods too,
but they are even newer, as in less mature / stable / all those positive
adjectives.

So if you really want to try Python Methods, look here:


http://www.zope.org//Wikis/DevSite/Projects/PythonMethods/OriginalProposal

download from here:

http://www.zope.org/Members/4am/PythonMethod

and for Perl Methods look here:

http://www.zope.org/Wikis/zope-perl/FrontPage

and download from here:

ftp://ftp.activestate.com/Zope-Perl/zoperl-1.0.beta2.tar.gz

Later,
Jerry S.

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[Zope] Acquisitive

2000-10-20 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Hi Zope Fans,

I ran into an odd quirk today, and I'm hoping someone has
an insight to share. There is a simple text string stored 
as a DTML Method, with ID = "set_table_0", e.g.:

'border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"'

When set_table_0 is in the Zope root folder, it isn't 
discovered through normal acquisition, but no error occurs.

table dtml-set_table_0;

creates a table with defaults, e.g. border is visible.

However, when set_table_0 is moved to a subfolder of the Zope 
root folder, with the name "table_settings", and the reference 
is made like so:

table %dtml-table_settings[set_table_0];

the DTML Method is found successfully, and the table border 
isn't displayed.

The question is, why is the folder "table_settings" found in 
the Zope Root Folder, but not the method? 

Does Acquisition give higher preference to folders (container), 
objects than a DTML Method?

Thanks,
Jerry S.



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[Zope] Acquisitiver and Acquisitiver

2000-10-20 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

OK, now I'm really confused. I stumbled on a way to make 
the DTML Method work, that is, the one that wasn't being 
found before, via Acquisition. All I have to do is forget 
to add the terminating ';' in :

table dtml-set_table_0;

so that it looks like so:

table dtml-set_table_0

Any guesses?

Thanks again,
Jerry S.


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[Zope] RE: Acquisitive

2000-10-23 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Steve wrote:

 I'm guessing the the problem is that

 dtml-xxx;  does an implicit "html_quote" format
 on whatever expression you provide.. so 

 table dtml-set_table_0;

 should produce:

 table border=quot;0quot; cellpadding=quot;0quot;
cellspacing=quot;0quot;

 Which the browser doesn't grok 

 try:

 table dtml-var set_table_0

That works! It turned out that this was also complicated by some flakey 
behavior displaying nested tables, in MS IE. It seems that sometimes it 
doesn't matter what you specifiy for a table's properties, the parent 
tables properties take precedence.

Thanks!
Jerry S.

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[Zope] ZFormulator

2000-10-25 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Hi Martijn, and Zope Fans,

I'm using ZFormulator and having problems with permissions 
on Zope v.2. The sign-on dialog pops-up when a user 
attempts to edit a form, but the correct name and password 
are rejected. Has anyone found a little detail that needs 
tweking to get past this one?

Thanks,
Jerry S.

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RE: [Zope] More ZFormulator

2000-10-27 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Steve asked:

   What version of ZFormulator are you running (and in what version of
 Zope?) I just tried ZFormulator-0.2 with Zope-2.2.2 and it seemed to
 work OK. Maybe it doesn't work with older zopes?

Oops, I should know better by now, than to ask for help without including 
the details. Zope 2.1.6 on Solaris 2.6 for Sparc, and Zope 2.2.1 on Linux 
2.2 for Intel.

The installs seemed to go smoothly on both systems, and I am able to create 
Form objects. However neither will let me add any form elements. The user 
authentication dialog pops up, and of coures I'm already authenticated at 
the initial access to the management interface. I'm both owner and manager 
of everything, but the authentication rejects my input.

ZFormulator has been available since late 1999, so I would expect the older 
versions to be OK.

Thanks,
Jerry S.


JS Re. the problems I mentioned in an earlier post, it may be
JS related to an error that turned up when I tried to run the
JS ZF_Demo module. It seems to be unable to locate:

JS "ApplicationDefaultPermissions"

JS Does that ring any bells?

JS A Google Search of Zope.org turns up several references, and
JS it seems to be a part of core Zope, but I have no idea how it
JS could be unavailable. Might the way Zope is started have an
JS impact on which pieces-parts are accessible?


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[Zope] More ZFormulator

2000-10-27 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Hi Again,

It turns out that the problems I was seeing are related to the Proxy Layers
that are in place to keep our IntraNet safe. ZFormulator doesn't work at all
when I bypass the Proxy entirely, only works partially when the Proxy is
invited to play, and only works fully when the directories that the Proxy is
aware of are involved. This is OK, as long as the generated forms function
correctly when a user sees them with the Proxy completely in control. We'll
see . . .

Thanks again!

Jerry S.

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[Zope] RE: More ZFormulator

2000-10-27 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Steve says:

 Found it:

 line 312: Form.py should be:

   __roles__ = ('Manager',)


Thanks Steve! 

Steve's motto is, "We don't need no stinkin' Docs!".

BTW, we disagree about this . . .

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[Zope] Almost Done.

2000-10-31 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Jason pondered:

 How do I get a TinyTable to display it's contents?

 All I find in the docs is !--in# tablename-- and that does not
 seem to work for me, unles I am lacking a tag?

Try it like this:

dtml-in tablename
 dtml-var fieldname1 dtml-var fieldname2br
/dtml-in

where tablename is the name of your table, and
fieldname1, fieldname2 are names of fields.

I've not used TinyTables, but this works with 
other tabular systems. 

Later,
Jerry S.

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[Zope] IMAP and Zope!

2000-11-01 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Morten says:

 If this sounds interesting, send me an email.=)

Is this one OK?

 I'm developing an Outlook/WorldPilot replacement which is much more 
 modular in design.  It will be released under the GPL.  When and where 
 I don't know yet. It stores messages in 'pure' ZODB format (that is, 
 the entire message is broken down and stored in various parts of the 
 object),  with _all_ the information from the original message stored, 
 in a structured and indexable way.

Watching the growing pains of an recently installed IMAP based Corporate 
E-Mail system makes me just a little queasy about using ZODB for mass 
storage. Volume is a very real problem, and Zope has it's own limits that 
must be considered.

I know it's formidable, but you may find the ZPatterns stuff useful.
One of the goals is to make it "easy" to swap out one storage for another. 

At first glance it strikes me as fairly straightforward to capture most of 
the relevant data that accompanies an E-Mail as RDBM "fields". Of course, 
a text blob, ZODB, or files may be more appropriate for the actual message 
content, and certainly for included files. 

ZODB is such a cool thing, but I'm still struggling with deciding what's 
best held as native ZODB "objects" vs. other possibilities. ZPatterns eases 
that quandary by making the choice flexible, and easy to "refactor" (fix!)
if / when you decide you "got it wrong". 

You might also check out the companion products "ExtFile" and "ExtImage"

http://www.zope.org/Members/MacGregor/ExtFile

which allow storage of "file" type data directly on the file system, yet 
keep related metadata in ZODB, for ZCataloging, etc.

 We're also including support for signing/verifying messages, with GnuPG.

Even Better!

Good Luck,
Jerry S.


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[Zope] CMS/publishing system

2000-11-03 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Pete asked:

 How well does Zope integrate applications/cgi's written in ASP, 
 Cold Fusion, Perl, etc...? As we've got a number of things we'd 
 prefer to keep as is, and run alongside Zope.

and added:

 Is it possible? I'm thinking that with Apache and mod_rewrite 
 it would be doable (using file extensions to map the request), 
 but I'm not sure how that might work under IIS or within Zope...

Yes, the mod_rewrite approach is a very common way to serve 
from both Apache and Zope, e.g. static pages / images from 
Apache, dynamic stuff from Zope. In fact, that's how Zope.org 
was set up for quite awhile, and may still be (don't know the 
details).

There are many refernces to this topic in the mail list archives.
Try searching at :

http://zope.nipltd.com/public/lists.html

For more intimate integration with existing Perl stuff, see:

http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-perl/

CMS is the latest buzzword for Web Application Development, AKA 
WorkFlow, Distributed Applications, etc. Zope is perfectly at 
home with this paradigm, whatever the nom du jour!

Later,
Jerry S.


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[Zope] redirect on Authorization

2000-11-03 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Daniel says:

 We have a very large site and many of Users bookmark pages. 
 This can cause several problems especially if the site layout
 changes, security changes at different levels and a user 
 bookmarks a result pages that depends on previous page(s) 
 submissions.

Yes, it's easy to redirect to a "front page" upon authentication,
but what's to keep the user from hitting the bookmark again, 
after signing on?

The real question is, "How can we keep users from bookmarking
dynamic pages?". It may be frustrating, but this is something 
that will haunt us as long as browsers have a bookmark button.

Worse, the browser cache, and higher levels of caching (e.g. 
Squid), are clueless and will obliviously serve up expired pages. 
You need to be very diligent to include metatags on every 
dynamic page to explicitly prevent caching!

The only answer I can come up with is to include checking for 
valid prerequisites, and redirect the user to the starting 
point of each process when they ask for the last page first.

An interesting problem, which I haven't got a canned answer for.

Later,
Jerry S.

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[Zope] ZMethod (Safe)

2000-11-09 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Hello Linguistas,

Shorter is better. In this light, my recommendation was "mod", 
short for MODule, and / or  MethOD, but it didn't get into the 
Poll List.

 We've pretty much settled on restricted/unrestricted here.

Also, I suggested "strict" as a shortened form of "reSTRICTed". 
Perhaps to much overloading from compiler directives, but it 
is the root word, after all.

If it's not simple, it will get simplified in use, and then 
you've got some folks refering to things in "slang", which 
drives newbies bonkers. "Official slang" is preferable, at 
least then you have some chance of usage being consistent.

Later,
Jerry S.

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[Zope] why DTML confusing

2000-11-10 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Irene says:

 I get so frustrated with DTML, I want to scream.  
 Please don't tell me to buy the Zope book, 
 DTML should be more intuitive.  
 DTML maybe the heart of Zope, 
 but it's also it's achilles heel.

You're right about the confusion, frustration, nor are you alone. 
Still, DTML isn't the heart of Zope, it's more like the fascia. 
DTML was intended to make the task of delivering dynamic content 
wrapped up in HTML-ish Templates easier. It evolved, and took on 
a broader scope that made it enticing for lot's of "other stuff". 

Like most evolution, there are obvious benefits, and some 
unfavorable outcomes. The most glaring problems show up when 
you start trying to do things that seem to be just a step or 
two more sophisticated than simple examples that "just work". 

There's good news. Python Methods, or whatever we end up calling 
them, make actually implementing such things as easy as Py(thon). 
For some folks, it may look like the bad news is, "Now I have to 
learn Python". In perspective, learning Python is way better than 
wading through the Zope API via DTML. Way way better. 

So, the moral is, keep the DTML as simple as it can be. For 
anything else, reach for another tool. Zope has bunches of them.

BTW, the dtml-if "_['sequence-item'}" stuff is the tip of the 
DTML Complexity Iceberg. The sooner you get comfortable with 
Python Methods, ZClasses, etc., the happier you'll be.

One last point. Python Methods (a.k.a. Restricted, Internal, or 
some other as yet unheard of alternative, which we are all 
anxiously awaiting) is an add-on at this point. Target date 
for inclusion as part of the standard "Core Zope" is Zope v.2.3.

For now, see: http://www.zope.org/Members/4am/PythonMethod
 
Later,
Jerry S.
 

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[Zope] Problem with escaped double quotes

2000-11-17 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Aitor asked:

 My problem is this :
 
 dtml-let foo=3D" ' blaublau : " fdsaf " df ' "
 /dtml-let
 
 It doesn't work 'cause I can't escape the doble quotes inside the string=
  I'm trying to eval.
 
 Any solution???

If I recall correctly, the work around I've used is to store the text,
including the double quotes, as a property of a parent folder, so that it
can be found by acquisition.

for example, create a String Property named "fdsaf_alias" with a
value of :

" fdsaf "

and then change your DTML to :

dtml-let foo=3D" ' blaublau : " + fdsaf_alias + " df ' "

Other than that, reconsider whether there might be a way to do this with
single quotes. HTML will usually accept either single or double quotes, but
nesting quotes is of course the common reason to use both types in an
expression. Since I have no idea what the item actually represents, it's not
a call I can make from this end.

Good Luck!
Jery S.

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[Zope] Problem with DCOracle interface for Python

2000-12-04 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Slim Says:

 I am having a problem when I try to run a python application on a Sun
server:

We had some problems like this too. If memory serves, an incompatibility
between older versions (Oracle 7.x) of the Oracle Networking package, and
the new version (Oracle 8) of the database "backend" was the cause. The new
(Net8) code can talk to older RDBM engines, but the old code can't talk to
Oracle 8. 

Good Luck,
Jerry S.

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[Zope] string splitting in dtml

2000-12-04 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Mike asked:

 I have a date string (ie dd/mm/yy) which I'm drawing out of a database
 (ODBC connection to Access) with a Z SQL method and I need to use that
 data to set the initial condition of a set of 3 select items (ie day,
 month and year).  Is there a way to split this date (it'll come out
 looking like dd/mm/yy) to get the components of it 

You could use the Python "string slice" syntax, like so:

dtml-let day_of_month="_['start_date'][:2]"
  month_of_year="_['start_date'][3:5]"
  year_of_century="_['start_date'][6:8]"
The dtml-var day_of_month day,br
of the dtml-var month_of_year month,br
of the year 20dtml-var month_of_centurybr
/dtml-let

Later,
Jerry S.

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RE: [Zope] string splitting in dtml

2000-12-06 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Mike said:

 I tried what you recommended and got the following error:

 Error Type: AttributeError
 Error Value: __getslice__

 The problem I think is that the variable is drawn from the database as
type
 date (Microsoft Access 2k) and somehow is cast into a date type.  Is there
a
 way to re-cast this variable as a string type?

You're right, it's not really a string, even though Zope is smart enough 
to render it into one when inserting it directly into HTML.

 I also tried the
 
 dtml-var "_.string.split(start_date, '/')[1]"
 
 solution but got the error:
 
 Error Type: TypeError
 Error Value: argument 1: expected read-only character buffer, instance
found

Now if only Zope were smart enough to tel us what it "really" is, 
so we could transform it! 

It looks like MS Access delivers dates as some proprietary object type.

However, in your query, you may be able to wrap the date field like so:

to_char(dateFieldName)

to convince MS Access to return a formatted string instead. 
Once you can see what the string looks like, the slicing bit 
should work.

Good Luck!
Jerry S.



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[Zope] ANNOUNCE: Zope 2.3.0 alpha 1 released...

2000-12-11 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Outstanding! 

Sometimes I wonder if ther rest of the Open Source world 
has a glimmer of how FAST Zope is developing. let alone 
commercial vendors. 

Can't wait to dig in!

Congratulations to all,
Jerry S.

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[Zope] Z-Commerce components

2000-12-28 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Jason wonders:

 Looking for an e-commerce tool to use for a Zope-based site for artists to
 share, display and sell 'net art' and more. Also to allow sponsors to do
 just that.

snip

 1. What do you recommend for taking credit card purchases online with
Zope?

The Wampum Generator is available at:

 http://www.zope.org/Members/ngarcia/WampumGenerator

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[Zope] Turn Off Rampant Capitalization?

2000-12-28 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Kyler said:

 it'd be great if someone
 would say something like "Oh, yeah, just set
 'capitalize_everything' to 'off'..."  

i can't tell you where to look, but as for "what" 
to look for, try searching for:

 string.capwords(

or, in dtml entity syntax:

 dtml.capitalize-

good luck!
jerry s.



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[Zope] RE: Z-Commerce components

2000-12-28 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Jason asked:

 Do you know is anyone _using_ Wampum :

 a. For handling real transactions, or is it still in development stages ?

 b. With Etailer's Zope kit?

This URL will have to be "reconstituted, but check out:

http://zope.nipltd.com/public/lists/commerce-archive.nsf/1201f301bbb3337c802
568c100638aed/25a1fec66d4d8c98802568f20063b55d?OpenDocumentHighlight=0,wamp
um

Not E-Tailer, but E-Market. E-ither way, 
there may be something useful to you


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[Zope] Belated Birthday!

2000-12-30 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Hey Zope Folks,

Maybe I missed it, but did anyone else realize that 
Zope's 2nd birthday snuck by without a party?!

Maybe the DC Gang are planning something based on 
an official ship date of some specific version, but 
anyhow, Happy Birthday, Zope!

   **
   ||
  |\/|
  |\/|
 ( \/ )

Later,
Jerry S.

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[Zope] Deleting Connection that hangs Zope

2001-01-04 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Hi Zope Fans,

Has anyone found a good way to delete a Database Connection that hangs Zope
at startup? The connection seems to be waiting "forever", and so there is no
access to the Zope interface, so of course I can't delete, or disable the
offending object.

If there were just a way to set it to not connect immediately, prior to
startup, that should be sufficient. The general question is, "How do you
access a Zope Object, without running Zope?"

BTW, I take back everything I said about RDBMS Storages being superfluous .
. .

Thanks,
Jerry S.

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RE: [Zope] Deleting Connection that hangs Zope

2001-01-04 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Steve suggested:

 You could remove the adaptor Product from Zope the Zope Products
 folder and restart, the object will be broken, but deletable, then
 restore the Product and restart Zope.

Good Idea! That's about as simple as this sort of 
thing can get, I suspect.

 Has anyone found a good way to delete a Database
 Connection that hangs Zope at startup? The
 connection seems to be waiting "forever", and so
 there is no access to the Zope interface, so of
 course I can't delete, or disable the offending
 object.

 If there were just a way to set it to not connect
 immediately, prior to startup, that should be
 sufficient. The general question is, "How do you
 access a Zope Object, without running Zope?"

I was finally motivated enough to fire up Ty Sarna's 
Tranalyzer ( http://www.zope.org/Members/tsarna/Tranalyzer )
which makes it quite painless to find a point at which 
to truncate (the last few records of) the /var/data.fs 
file.

Thanks!
Jerry S.




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[Zope] Creating a Database connection.

2001-01-06 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Darren wrote:

 I am very new to the Zope idea. I like what Zope is trying  
 to do. But I am trying to set up an external SQL database 
 connection

While it would be ideal for one set of instructions to serve 
every possible requirement, in reality it will be best for 
you to provide as much detail as you can about the specific 
scenario you are facing.

For starters:

What Operating System will Zope be hosted on?

What Database "backend" do you need to connect to?

Will the Database be resident on the same system as Zope?

If not, what Operating System will be hosting the Database?

Get back to the list with the answers, and anything else you 
think might help, plus what you have already tried, that 
hasn't worked.

Later,
Jerry S.

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[Zope] Zope 'Best Practices'?

2001-01-08 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Steve wonders:

 Is there anything like a Zope 'Best Practices' document or 
 Wiki? One that would encourage use of certain practices, DTML 
 idioms or products, and warn of practices, idioms or products 
 that are known to cause problems down the line or are slated 
 for extinction?
 
 I ask this as a new user who's bewildered by the array of Zope 
 tools and products. So, I read of a practice or Product and 
 think 'wow, that's great!' But I have no idea whether it's in 
 common usage and destined to become part of the core, or is 
 headed for replacement or extinction.


I think the link below was made for just this reason:

 http://www.zope.org/Members/tseaver/StartHere

Thanks Tres!

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[Zope] ZDESIGN IDEAS = How to improve 'manage' ?

2001-01-08 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Jason mentioned :

 The need to improve the manage interface has grown urgently 
  clear to me while using Zope myself, designing for all sorts 
 of community and collaborative Zope-based projects, demos for 
 a number of innocent bystanders, interested parties and 
 potential clients. Zope 'manage' is plain primitive at present.

(and lot's more)

Though I haven't seen much in the way of details, the link below may overlap
to some degree:
 
http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ManagementInterfaceQuickFix/Front
Page

and from the looks of :

http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ManagementInterfaceQuickFix/Curre
ntStatus

things seem to be moving ahead.

There are so many projects it's not really possible to stay on top of it
all, at least for me. Keep in mind that PTK is rapidly approaching v. 1.0,
and for what you have described as your project range, that may have a huge
impact.

See:

 http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-web/2001-January/000275.html

especially:

 However it sounds like what you really want is the PTK:
 
  http://www.zope.org/Products/PTK/
 
 The CVS version of PTK is more friendly to WebDAV, especially when 
combined with Zope 2.3's ability to run on a "source port" (that 
 is, a port where GET requests don't render the document).  I 
 believe Martijn will be working on getting HiperDOM templates as a 
 content type for PTK.
 
 With this you can have resources that have to go through a simple 
 role-based approval system.
 
 I'm really looking forward to the next six or so weeks when the 
 dust settles on all this.

Later,
Jerry S.

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[Zope] Problem on using nested dtml-ifdtml-in

2001-01-16 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Angie asked:

 The problems is i'm not sure my dtml in order to control the loop 
 of choosing the correct sql in the right situation.
 The following is my DTML:-
 
 dtml-if "_["dtml-var custid"]==custid","_["dtml-var 
 custname"]==custname"
 dtml-in sqlSearchcust1
 /dtml-if

 dtml-elif "_[""]==custid","_["dtml-var custname"]==custname"
 dtml-in sqlSearchcust2
 /dtml-if

 dtml-elif "_["dtml-var custid"]==custid","_[""]==custname"
 dtml-in sqlSearchcust3
 /dtml-if

First, the rule is "No DTML inside DTML", which translates to 
simply refering to objects by names, in any DTML tag, like so:

dtml-if "_['custid']==custid,_['custname']==custname"

Also, notice that the only Double-Quotes are the outside pair, 
inside those you must use single quotes.

Last, the only DTML-IF tag you need is that final one.

Try this much, and see if all your probems go away.
If not, let us know.

Later,
Jery S.



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[Zope] RE: Problem on using nested dtml-ifdtml-in

2001-01-17 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Oops! What I meant to say was:

"The only /dtml-if tag you need is that final one."

(see prior post on this topic)

Later,
Jerry S.



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[Zope] Tools used for programming Zope

2001-01-18 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Gerald said:

 I need to have source code readable on the filesystem 
 independent of a Zope server, so that I can do things like CVS 
 them, use any editor on them, grep them, etc. It seems that my 
 only choice is to write products in Python itself, instead of 
 using the web interface of Zope, which is one of the cool 
 features of Zope.

The ZCVSMixin product makes it fairly simple to export any subset of a site,
import it locally, make changes, and reverse the process, with versioning of
all non-file system objects (which you can already handle via CVS) and
usable diffs for many object types.

 http://www.zope.org/Members/sspickle/ZCVSMixin

Later,
Jerry S

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[Zope] Workflow and document management system in Zope

2001-01-18 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Nicolas said:

 I am looking for two products: a professional workflow and a 
 electronic document management system, preferably in Zope or 
 opensource if not in Zope. These 2 applications should be able 
 to work together.

Some of this is now in the Portal Toolkit (PTK) soon to be re-named and
re-launched at the release of the long awaited version 1. This is the bag of
tricks that the Digital Creations gang uses to whip out massive,
stat-of-the-art Web extravaganzas at light speed. You can download the
pre-beta at:

 http://classic.zope.org:8080/Community/CVS_public_access

Also, you may be interested in the tools developed for the Zope
Documentation Project, at:

 http://www.zope.org/Members/roeder

Lots of other folks are very interested in these topics, I'm sure you'll get
some positive feedback to your questions.

Later,
Jerry S.

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[Zope] RE: Workflow and document management system in Zope

2001-01-19 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Hi Nicolas,

 For you, when would such products be considered ready for production ?

The most important factor can be viewed from two perspectives, 
neither precluding the other. 

The ideal state arrives when complete documentation is available, 
or at least one person on the deployment team has dug through the 
source code enough to inderstand the system thoroughly, and serve 
as a guide and mentor to others. Waiting for complete documentation 
sounds like a name for a surrealist/existentialist play for geeks.

You may be in a fairly good position to benefit from input from the 
the creators of the ZDP Tools. Maik? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

 http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope/2001-January/037709.html

 If I can have a demonstration rapidly (unfortunately I do not yet know 
 Zope personnally but I shall look for help locally), I may even get funds 
 to help and foster the complementary developpement.

Also see some recent posts from the Zope-PTK list:

 http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-ptk/2001-January/002179.html

 http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-ptk/2001-January/002182.html

Another thread that you may find interesting:

 http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-ptk/2000-December/002009.html

 http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-ptk/2000-December/002002.html

and don't miss:

 http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-ptk/2000-December/002067.html

 http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-ptk/2000-December/002069.html

It's getting exciting out there!
Jerry S.

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[Zope] RE: Tools used for programming Zope

2001-01-19 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Hi Gerald,

  http://www.zope.org/Members/sspickle/ZCVSMixin

 Since this converts between CVS and Zope already, have you 
 thought about the possibility of exporting it directly onto 
 the filesystem?

Since CVS is file based, everything you export is stored as a file during
the CVS phase. One of the remaining puzzles is how to improve management of
Zope Objects that aren't very "file like", such as ZClasses. The file
representation of these are less directly editable, but at the very least
you can tell when and who made updates, and quickly see what has changed.

Later,
Jerry S.



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RE: [Zope] RE: Workflow and document management system in Zope

2001-01-19 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

This may be the link you were thinking of:

http://www.omg.org/technology/documents/formal/corba_business_specifications
_av2.htm

with the Corba Workflow Specification available as a .PDF.

  Thanks for the interesting URLs on workflow discussions.
  
  Corba Ecommerce has very interesting and thorough models of workflows,
 including UML diagrams and even an XML format for defining state
machines.
  Sorry, this may be old news as I don't have time to follow up the actual
  threads
  beyond the first messages.
  
  But if not, anyone designing such a system for Zope *must* study the
Corba
  stuff.
  
  Email me direct if the URLs haven't been published in the discussions and
  I'll be happy to dig them up (hard to find within www.omg.org). Or,
(easier
  for me), I can email the (large) .pdf files direct.

 I also know that WfMC (Workflow Management Coalition, www.wfmc.org)
 has adopted many of OMG's workflow concepts in the past. I am not
 sure if what you are referring to is recent new development by OMG.
 
 For a diagram of WfMC's workflow reference model see the diagrams at:
 
 http://www.zope.org/Members/aboulang


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[Zope] RE: Workflow and document management system in Zope

2001-01-20 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Hi Nicolas,

Your last post mentioned:

 I am looking for a workflow (WF) linked to a electronic document 
 management (EDM) system and a groupware email based 

In addition to other links, you might want to check out ZopeGUM, 
and ZUBBS,

 http://www.zope.org/Members/morphex/ZopeGUM

 http://www.zope.org/Members/morphex/ZopeGUM/Info

 http://www.zope.org/Members/BwanaZulia/ZUBB

 http://www.zope.org/Members/BwanaZulia/ZUBB/README

These may provide some of the groupware  email pieces you 
are looking for. BTW, you may want to consider contacting some 
of the consultants listed on the Zope Solution Providers page. 

 http://www.zope.org/Resources/ZSP

I'm sure the Digital Creations folks won't object to me 
mentioning that in addition to being the sponsors, hosts, and
creators of Zope, they also do consulting, including projects 
involving integrated workflow, such as the PTK.

 http://www.digicool.com

 http://www.digicool.com/Company/

Later,
Jerry S.

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[Zope] MS-SQL Server Connector

2001-01-20 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Adrian asked:

 Is there a database connector or similar for MS-SQL Server that 
 might run on non-windows Zopes?

Check out http://www.zope.org/Members/TheJester/SybaseDA , and 
please let the list know how it goes. We all need to help each 
other with these little puzzles.

Good luck,
Jerry S.

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[Zope] FW: MS-SQL Server Connector

2001-01-22 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Hi Adrian

 I tried this about 6 months ago. It seems that Micro$oft 
 changed that protocol that SQL7.0 uses, just enough to prevent 
 Sybase connectors from working. (I probably should have 
 mentioned 7.0 in the message... sorry)

Ouch! There are some other options, a few of which I've tried, mostly some
variation on ODBC, many of them listed here, (some even with links):

 http://www.zope.org/Members/mcdonc/RelationalDatabaseWiki/ODbC

There is a quasi-mythical ODBC DA for Linux that I have yet to successfully
implement, but you can find some hints here :

 http://www.zope.org/Members/jrush/news_ZODBCDA_solid_linux

Good luck!,
Jerry S.




 
 

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[Zope] Re: PopMail Client

2001-01-31 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

David promptly replied:

Hi Jerry,

It's hard to diagnose from what you've sent me.  Can you send me the
full traceback (from the HTML source code of the error page)?  That will
make determining where the error occurred a lot easier.


So the very least I could do was respond with:

-
The first one:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line
222, in publish_module
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line
187, in publish
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line 221, in
zpublisher_exception_hook
(Object: POPMailAccountBase)
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line
171, in publish
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python/ZPublisher/mapply.py, line 160,
in mapply
(Object: index_html)
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line
112, in call_object
(Object: index_html)
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python/OFS/DTMLMethod.py, line 172, in
__call__
(Object: index_html)
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/DT_String.py,
line 528, in __call__
(Object: index_html)
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/DT_Util.py,
line 337, in eval
(Object: ListMessages())
(Info: ListMessages)
  File lt;stringgt;, line 0, in ?
  File /l01/Zope/lib/python/Products/POPMailBase/POP.py, line 132, in
ListMessages
(Object: POPMailAccountBase)
  File /l01/Zope/lib/python/Products/POPMailBase/POP.py, line 68, in
UpdateStatus
(Object: POPMailAccountBase)
  File /l01/Zope/lib/python/Products/POPMailBase/POP.py, line 42, in Connect
(Object: POPMailAccountBase)
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python1.5/poplib.py, line 183, in
pass_
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python1.5/poplib.py, line 146, in
_shortcmd
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python1.5/poplib.py, line 125, in
_getresp
error_proto: (see above)


---
The second one:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line
222, in publish_module
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line
187, in publish
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line 221, in
zpublisher_exception_hook
(Object: POPMailAccountBase)
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line
171, in publish
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python/ZPublisher/mapply.py, line 160,
in mapply
(Object: index_html)
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line
112, in call_object
(Object: index_html)
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python/OFS/DTMLMethod.py, line 172, in
__call__
(Object: index_html)
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/DT_String.py,
line 528, in __call__
(Object: index_html)
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/DT_Util.py,
line 337, in eval
(Object: ListMessages())
(Info: ListMessages)
  File lt;stringgt;, line 0, in ?
  File /l01/Zope/lib/python/Products/POPMailBase/POP.py, line 132, in
ListMessages
(Object: POPMailAccountBase)
  File /l01/Zope/lib/python/Products/POPMailBase/POP.py, line 68, in
UpdateStatus
(Object: POPMailAccountBase)
  File /l01/Zope/lib/python/Products/POPMailBase/POP.py, line 42, in Connect
(Object: POPMailAccountBase)
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python1.5/poplib.py, line 183, in
pass_
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python1.5/poplib.py, line 146, in
_shortcmd
  File /l01/Zope-2.2.1-linux2-x86/lib/python1.5/poplib.py, line 125, in
_getresp
error_proto: (see above)


"Spicklemire, Jerry" wrote:
 
 Hi David,
 
 I'm looking at your Pop3 Client tool for Zope and have hit a snag.
 Is there any documentation about correct usage, or example (Zope) code?
 
 I'm using Zope 2.2.1 on Redhat Linux, with PopMailBase .0.0.3,
 and PopMail .0.0.2
 
 I have looked over POP.py, and have a glimmer of what to do to call
 these methods and functions. I have added a Pop Client Folder, and a
 client account object, but when I try to use the "View" tab in the
 Zope TTW GUI, I get the tracebacks, below.
 
 The 'error_proto' is a reference to the first class listed in poplib.py,
 which simply 'pass(es)' when an Exception is used as a parameter. One
 thing I noticed is that poplib seems to treat error_proto as a function
 sometimes, which strikes me as odd. Some Pythonic stuff boggles my mind.
 Now you know as much (hopefully much more!) than I do.
 
 Thanks for any help!
 Jerry S.
 
 -
 First this shows up,
 
 Zope Error
 Zope has encountered an error while publishing this resource.
 
 Error Type: error_proto
 Error Value: -ERR Not implemented
 
 -
 and then a few seconds later this one,
 
 Zope Error
 Zope has encoun

[Zope-dev] HiperDOM xmlc

2000-09-19 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

There are a few things I'm trying to understand about the xmlc-like
Templates proposal. First :

"Using specialized webdesigners with Zope project has been one
of the biggest pains in Zope development; we have to take the
sometimes ugly code generated by the tools they use, usually
clean it up, then insert the DTML tags in it. Making changes to
the design is a nightmare."

http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2000-September/006893.html


'Yep.  Essentially the programmers "steal" the presentation/view layer from
the designers and convert it to "code".'

http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2000-September/006958.html

OK, point taken, but it's not quite that simple. In the end, isn't that why
artist do design, and coders code? One of the primary purposes in a complete
Content Management System is to distill the presentation standard in a way
that can be "layered" over any content. This principle doesn't stop at a
clearly delineated "visual" line.

Leaving the page layout "as is", which is what it sounds like you are
suggesting, is even worse than doing the job right at the "cast into code"
stage. If you leave the ugly HTML ugly, it will still be ugly next time it
gets updated, but it will be much less useful in the meantime. Worse, it's
likely to get uglier over time. Have you ever seen a baby rhinocerous?

To me the real solution is to clean up the layout, converting hard coded
"virtual" lists into real lists, etc., while painstakingly preserving the
visual design. That clean, codified version can then be leveraged to the
utmost during it's production life, and still be fed back to the designer at
design update time. This can be easily done today in the form of a static
HTML file, simply by calling the Zope URL of the base template, and hitting
"save as". With the proposed xmlc-ish Template, the "snapshot" step should
not be needed, which is great! 

Granted, if the person who distills the design into clean, reusable HTML /
DTML / XML hasn't done the job well, incorporating the changes of the
updated version may well be a nightmare. On the other hand, if this crucial
step is done well, adapting the base template to match the "new vision"
should in fact be much easier the second time.

I think a large part of the confusion comes from where we each draw the
conceptual line regarding what is "visual" and what is best handled as
"code". An anchor tag is, after all, just a pointer to some related stuff,
not the actual physical location of anything. 

If making it easy for visual folks to avoid this basic fact is the driver
here, there's a much larger problem looming in the immediate XML future . .
 .

Also, the idea of presenting a place holder sounds a lot like :

"As for cases where a dataset is displayed, such as by a ZSQL query, perhaps
a single "dummy" row, or cell, could stand in for design purposes."

http://www.zope.org/Resources/Mozilla/ZWiki/IDEs

Is that what you mean? Is the "dummy" stuff intended to resemble the final
content, or just to mark an insertion point? Might it be possible to make
place holders in the form of anchors (links) to DTML Methods, or other
appropriate forms of native Zope elements, so that DreamWeaver, et. al. can
pull down a "real" item, rather than having a hard coded "stuff goes here"
label? That sounds advantageous to me, in terms of validating a visual
design.

Groping toward grokking,
Jerry S.



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[Zope-dev] XHTML Templates comments from the peanut gallery

2000-09-28 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry


 Paul Everitt wrote:
 o Allow those presentation tools to work by having well-formed
 markup (e.g. no separation into header and footer)

 to which Chris Withers replied:
 Hmmm... I wonder how refactoring, which _header and _footer were really
 useful for, will happen now...

The most obvious problem was that _header + _footer idiom was presented in 
a way that resulted in tags being opened in _header, and cosed in _footer. 
I personally adopted this as a "Good Example" of how to use Zope, and had 
created quite a mess for myself before a post on one of the lists pointed 
out how genuinley horrible this is, from a well-formedness point of view. 
Duh! 

Still, it's just not that big a trick to factor out the HEAD tag as a 
monolith, and insert references to other pieces parts inside the HTML tag 
that used to be included in _header, but now appears as a "hard coded" 
element in the "presentation" document. On the surface it may look like 
you wind up with things more scattered about, but as far as factoring, it's 
manageable. Even in the worst case, my _headers tended to be made up of 
references to other elements that had been factored out anyhow. Same applies

to _footer, and other items. 

So, there is a change in mind set, but not on the scale of a tectonic shift.

If we can get here:

   Zope should move to an architecture with clear separation of
   presentation, data, and logic, with clear concepts in Zope for these
   tiers and audiences.

it will certainly be worth any adaptation that need to occur.

However, I am a bit puzzled regarding:

   The presentation tier will get a tremendous usability increase by
   allowing round trip presentation with common tools.  This also
   ensures that Site Designers finish with the same stuff they started
   with, meaning the programmers don't come in and cast their work into
   "code".

Folks really do want to use Dreamweaver et. al. to layout Web "pages", 
that's verifiable. The proposal to meet this need is to "let the 
designer see what they expect, but swap in a Zopification at run time". 

That may be enough to fulfill the requirement, but it looks pretty pale 
from this end. There is a very narrow band of "graphic stuff" that won't 
need to be thoroughly Zopified ("cast into code") in the process of 
adapting a designer's work. Most of the stuff that makes a Web site 
useable, such as menus, navigation bars, etc. must be entirely transformed 
into lists (tables) and scripts (DTML, Python methods, whatever) on the 
way to maintainability nirvana. As for real Web Applications, the range 
is even thinner. 

The illusion of "round trip editing" may be enforcable this way, and 
there may in fact be a long range plan to convert to a real implementation, 
based on DOM, XSLT. If that's sufficient to get past the "let me do it 
my way" objections of temperamental "Artists", so be it.

   Site Designers want simple reuse of content within reach of standard
   tools.  For instance, the Site Designer wants a standard copyright
   "asset" on the bottom of every page.

This is easy enough to provide for, but the proposal seems to imply that 
a "hard copy" of each "asset" will be inserted in the designed "page", 
but a Zopification of that asset will appear in the served "page". Of 
course that's quite feasible with Zope, change an "asset", all instances 
will be composed, at serve time, to display the updated "asset". 

Then, all the designers have to do is go back, and hand edit every 
"dummy" instance that's just there to keep them contented, because those 
"hard copies" aren't going to be updated, since they are not accessible 
by Zope. What has been gained here?

   Site Designers will create XHTML Template objects that control

This sounds great, but are these the same folks who can't live without 
their Dreamweaver? Now they're going to design XHTML Templates? My 
guess is that the designer will create an HTML "page", and a Zope jockey 
will tuck some references inside some tags that point to other goodies 
that were concocted far from the gaze of the "designer", and essentially 
override the original. Hopefully the designer won't notice those new 
little gotchas hiding in the tags, and will leave them where they are. 
Can you say "element level locking"?

   XHTML Templates will be complete, well-formed HTML that look like a
   resource will look when the XHTML Template is applied to it.  There
   will be no "source vs. rendered" issue.

Except for the "dummy assets" which will only be an "artists conception" 
of the rendered "resource", if I'm getting this right.

   The XHTML Template architecture will facilitate re-use by allowing
   blocks in the XHTML Template to be named as a
   (component/library/asset) block.  As the Site Designer authors and
   updates the block of XHTML, Zope saves the named block as a separate
   object in Zope.  This named object can then be used in other XHTML
   Templates.

Will it be up to the designer then, to see that 

[Zope-dev] XHTML Templates comments from the peanut gallery

2000-09-28 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

  Chris Withers writes:
 A **page** is the result of applying presentation to data in the
 object system.  A page is a particular result of a URL when viewed
 under certain conditions.
  
  I'd like to add to this:
  components used to make up 'page's should not be URL-visible. Why should
  they be?
  (would this raise issues with XML-RPC?)

 whereupon Dieter Maurer responded:
 Because, you want to access them for management purposes (e.g.
 change them).

and, conceptually at least, this should facilitate displaying the 
hypothetical "block" resources as "include virtual" sorts of beasties, 
on the inside of some next generation hyper-editing environment.

Zopefully,
Jerry S.


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[Zope-dev] Trying to catch up - what are the best Zope tools today?

2000-10-05 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Itai asked:

 "I started reading about ZPatterns but I still can't get my head 
 around it... I'm wondering if I should try to learn it fast enough 
 for this project, or stick to what I already know. What in people's 
 experience is the typical learning curve for ZPatterns? How much am I 
 going to have to figure out to be able to build support for SQL 
 storage?

FYI ZPatterns has been a rapidly moving target, but it's looking pretty 
solid now, and a few folks have managed to wade in and make sense of it 
already. There's even some documentation at :

http://www.zope.org/Members/pje/Wikis/ZPatterns/HomePage

Most of the discussions you'll see on this list between Steve Spicklemire 
and Phil Eby / Ty Sarna are directly related to the next rev. of EMarket, 
which will be based on ZPatterns. If you think the flexibility that comes 
from a cleanly implemented Object Pattern will be worth the learning curve, 
ZPatterns is just about there now.

The "how" of storing data in an RDBMS, accessed with ZSQLMethods is no 
different with ZPatterns. The real difference is "who" does the storage 
and retrieval. This is the concept of the "Specialist" object, which 
"knows" all about the specifics of the data and storage implementation.

In any case, get to know ZClasses and PythonMethods, which may not have 
been ready for prime time, or even released, last time you looked. Those 
will be useful no matter which direction you choose.

Later,
Jerry S.

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[Zope-dev] A good collaboration 'partner' ? Was: ZPatterns design questions

2000-10-07 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Hi Steve, and fellow ZPatterns Wannabees,

As to the sorts of things most of us need to keep track of that could tie
into a simple "ToDo" List, so far we've seen suggestions for an Address Book
and Deliverables. The first sounds kind of like a Contact List to me, or
maybe an Ownership or Collaboration List. A way to keep track of other folks
involved or concerned with each "ToDo" item. The second sounds like adding a
Status Field to each "ToDo" item, and defining what it takes for each to be
tagged as "Done". This might take the form of completed steps, finished
output, or whatever, making up a sort of mini-workflow.

In the a Normalization process of a tabular database each of these could be
seen as child tables, since there could be more than one Contact or
Deliverable for a "ToDo" item in the parent table.

While we're on the subject of fleshing out a "ToDo" schema, consider a
interfacing with a simple calendar, for task scheduling. This would enable
assignment of target dates, and dependencies. For example, if task B must be
done by the 37th of Penultember, the closer we get to the 37th, the "hotter"
task B gets. Furthermore, if task A must be at least halfway complete before
task B can be started, task A should heat up even sooner.

This is basically the sort of thing a Project Management system does. A
simple dependency model might be added in the form of a few "rules" based on
comparing status, dependency, and target dates. "Hot" items could be
highlighted for special attention, when a critical threshold is crossed.

This may be too ambitious, or even counter productive. I realize the point
is not to create the ultimate Personal Information Manager application, but
to illustrate how ZPatterns aids integration across "unrelated"
applications. Still, integrating an Address Book, Calendar, and ToDo list
isn't all the far fetched, as each one could have been created as handy
little stand alone utilities.

On the other hand, knowing you're working on something that could actually
turn out to be useful might assist in the motivation process! 

Later,
Jerry S.

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[Zope-dev] (no subject)

2000-10-23 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Hi Name Hunters,

My problem with Zopelet is that it already has a meaning, at least to me. 

Looking down the road, not nearly as far as one might imagine, let's see
where we may be heading. Think about minimal Zope instances running on Palm
Gizmos, Cell Phones, whatever, a sort of personal ZEOClient, that enables
offline or intermitent access to Zope Applications (e.g. WorldPilot). That's
a Zopelet to me, a "little Zope".

As for the other suggestions, "Op" sounds right to me. An Operation, or an
Operative carrying out some work on behalf of the caller. 

Python Op, Perl Op, XSLT Op. It's short too!

Also, Safe is clear, and easy to grasp, since most folks are aware how
critical security can be. As for Flexible vs. UnSafe, how about "Direct", as
in, "running directly from the file system"?. The term implies a trade-off
of power for some degree of insecurity, at least to the initiated. Newbies
should be warned away if they don't get the connotation.

This leads to:

Direct Python Op, etc.

Later,
Jerry S.

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[Zope-dev] Task, Job or Operation?

2000-10-23 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Sorry for the duplicate post, forgot the subject. :)

Hi Name Hunters,

My problem with Zopelet is that it already has a meaning, at least to me. 

Looking down the road, not nearly as far as one might imagine, let's see
where we may be heading. Think about minimal Zope instances running on Palm
Gizmos, Cell Phones, whatever, a sort of personal ZEOClient, that enables
offline or intermitent access to Zope Applications (e.g. WorldPilot). That's
a Zopelet to me, a "little Zope".

As for the other suggestions, "Op" sounds right to me. An Operation, or an
Operative carrying out some work on behalf of the caller. 

Python Op, Perl Op, XSLT Op. It's short too!

Also, Safe is clear, and easy to grasp, since most folks are aware how
critical security can be. As for Flexible vs. UnSafe, how about "Direct", as
in, "running directly from the file system"?. The term implies a trade-off
of power for some degree of insecurity, at least to the initiated. Newbies
should be warned away if they don't get the connotation.

This leads to:

Direct Python Op, etc.

Later,
Jerry S.

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[Zope-dev] DTML Entity Syntax, was (no subject)

2000-10-27 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Johann Loibl wonders:

 What does the following line means?

 href="dtml.url-mail_password_form;

 how to work with '' ?

This means to substitue the value stored in the variable

"mail_password_form"

as an "absolute URL". It's known as "DTML Entity Syntax".

Check out:  http://www.zope.org/Members/AlexR/EntitySyntax

BTW, this is a pretty basic question, and is best addressed 
to the generic Zope List:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Later,
Jerry S.

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[Zope-dev] zope and java

2001-02-06 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Mike asked:

 Can zope work with Java yet? If so, please point us in the right
direction.

Phil responded:

 I'll recap.  There is a piece of software under development called JPE.
 This is supposedly going to be or even is a Jave-Python gateway in effect.

 It should allow you to use Java classes in Python and Vice-versa.

FYI, more details here:

 http://www.arakne.com/jpe.htm

The actual interface seems to be based on JNI, which should be
cross-platform, 
at least that's the intention.

Discalimer: After you hit the link above you will know as much as I do.

Later,
Jerry S.


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[Zope-dev] SAP DB -- ZODB ?

2001-03-11 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Kapil said:

 looks like it will instantly become the most advanced open source database

 out there. my current rankings of the general os rdbms  in terms of
features 
 postgresql-interbase-mysql  

Keep in mind that (even though) it is an effective "general os rdbms",
PostgreSQL was originally developed as an experimantal platform for 
testing concepts in the Object-Relational database realm. As such, 
it has some unique potential, especially in its ability to define 
and store Objects as _native_data_types_. 

Most of the effort and press related to PostgreSQL in the recent past 
has focused on adding SQL in place PostgreSQL's QEL, and improving 
stability and performance. Now that most of this important work has 
been accomplished, my hope is that some of the truly differentiating 
features can be showcased, e.g. a Zope Storage where an external SQL 
engine can directly interact with objects as native data. 

Imagine a SQL statement that updates every instance of a ZClass with 
new properties, or slipping a super-class in underneath (re-parenting), 
where it had never been before. 

also:

 the feature list of this database is astonishing
 www.sapdb.org

 to name a few
 subtransactions
 outer joins
 sql 92 compliant, possible modes for db2, oracle 7
 very nice prodecural sql language.
 lots of statistics information
 really rich set of standard functions
 scrollable cursors
 
 this is a great candidate for a zodb storage

SAP DB is a fully licensed version of Software AG's (SAG) Adabas D, 
a descendant of SAG's venerable mainframe class system, Adabas C. 
Yes, SQL is fully supported, but SQL is after all a query language, 
not a physical model of the internal structure of an rdbms. 

This is not to say that Adabas, in any form, is any less of a capable 
system. Don't be surprised, however, to find something much closer to 
a network database under the surface, compared to PostgreSQL, which 
is about two generations newer, according to its "birth date" (1988?). 

Interestingly, many folks who have been around for several "database 
revolutions" see the network model as a very good choice for storage 
of "non-tabular" data types, such as objects, etc. On the other hand, 
that may be the result of lack of familiarity with the possibilities 
inherent in a true Object-Relational data model.

Later,
Jerry S.

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[Zope-dev] State of ZPatterns

2001-03-11 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Itai wrote:

 My understanding was, though, 
 that TransWarp will replace ZPatterns as the best tool for object 
 model based development, which means that the idea of developing 
 ZPatterns code with a view for long term future reuse suddenly isn't 
 that attractive.

My inclination exactly. I would feel so much better if all these 
geniuses would just jump "straight to Go". It seems, though, that 
they have to work through this "unproductive" prototyping stage 
in order to get there. Of course, I can't complain, since just 
watching the breakneck evolution of Python, Zope, ZPatterns, and 
all the amazing goodies that show up here and at Zope.org leave 
my head spinning. 

If I recall, the original RIPP slide presentation stated pretty 
clearly that the toolkit that came to be called ZPatterns was 
really just the groundwork needed to achieve a much larger goal. 
So, TransWarp is that much closer to reality, and it took ZPatterns 
to make that happen. The stamina alone is mind boggling, let alone 
the fact that useful stuff, _very_useful_stuff_, was generated 
along the way. 

also:

 I expect the ZPatterns-based e-commerce app 
 I'm building today to make the e-commerce app I build in 12 months a 
 lot easier to build. So any changes in the basic tools I use bother 
 me.

Me too. My preference is to have only the best solutions right from 
the start, and to only have to learn things once. Problem is, after 
14 years doing this stuff, none of it has had the simple courtesy to 
just stand still! The good news is, for the most part, the trend is 
in the general direction of improvement. Again, how can I complain? 

I don't pretend to fully "get" any of the stuff these guys, nor the 
DC crew, not to mention the PythonLabs team, and all the astounding 
folks on the lists are cooking up for the rest of us. All that I 
can say for certain is that based on past history, it will be even 
more amazing than the stuff that has me totally dazzled already.

One thing that has definitely grabbed my attention about TransWarp 
is the goal of not only making Zope development more flexible and 
powerful, but to bring the same facility to "Extra-Zope" development. 
We all hang out here because of the incomparable degree to which 
Zope has empowered Web development. But Jim Fulton himself has said 
how tickled he is that folks are starting to use ZODB independent of 
Zope. Zope is, after all, an amalgam of several Python modules, any 
one of which can be pulled into a non-Zope application. Right now, 
at this point in time, the Web is absolutely critical, and anything 
that helps us deal with the crude state of the Web (e.g. browser hell) 
is a life-saver. 

So, Zope's greatest strength is its Web-centricity, but it can also 
be it's Achille's heal, once the Web reaches maturity, and technology 
moves on. Something like TransWarp can assure that all the goodies that 
we build for Zope can continue to live on and remain viable, long after 
"The Web" is a quaint artifact, a footnote in the primitive history of 
an ubiquitous Global Communication System.

Thanks Phil, Ty, Jim, Brian, Paul, Shane, Tres, Michel, Amos, Guido, 
Tim, Ken, and way too many more to mention!
Jerry S.

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[Zope-dev] Is ZFormulator alive?

2001-03-12 Thread Spicklemire, Jerry

Arno said:

 I am currently checking ZFormulator and could import the demo,
 but was unable to add new input fields.  


From a post by Steve Spicklemire to the Zope list, October, 27th, 2000:

"
 line 312: Form.py should be:

__roles__ = ('Manager',)
"

This was quickly retrieved by searching at NIP Ltd. 

 http://zope.nipltd.com/public/lists/zope-archive.nsf/

Thanks again Steve, and NIP folks!
Jerry S.


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