Re: [Zope-CMF] Accessing PageMacros

2010-03-11 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Heya Charlie,

The way I do this is register a view for * with the name I'm using for the
macro:
browser:page
for=*
name=foo
permission=zope2.View
template=../path/to/my_template.pt
/

Then in in the template:
metal:foo use-macro=here/@@foo/macro_to_use

Not sure if that's the SOP or what...but works for me.

Cheers,

Andrew


On 3/11/10 7:12 AM, Charlie Clark char...@begeistert.org wrote:

 Hi,

I think I'm probably making this more complicated than it need be but I'm
 
stumped.

I have a form that uses five.formlib.formbase.PageForm, ie. the
 default  
zope.formlib PageForm. How can I make use of the macros in the
 template,  
ie. what is the lookup for the macros? @@form_macros only seems to
 have  
widget_macros and addform and I'd like the whole page and just make use
 of  
the slots. metal fill-slot=extra_info...

Zope 3 skin declarations
 aren't my strong suit and I think they just wrap  
the meta-class stuff which
 has my head spinning.

Charlie
-- 
Charlie Clark
Helmholtzstr.
 20
Düsseldorf
D- 40215
Tel: +49-211-938-5360
GSM:
 +49-178-782-6226
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Re: [Zope-dev] Defining Zope 3.

2009-04-17 Thread Andrew Sawyers
+1 with Tres' position.

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Martijn Faassen wrote:
  Jim Fulton wrote:
  On Apr 17, 2009, at 11:49 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote:
 
  Simon Michael wrote:
  -1, Gary's is clearer.
  I think what is clear or not is very subjective. I think that at least
  is clear.
 
  I think it is clear that you are disregarding many people's opinions.
 
  Okay, I'll come back with a bit more rational response than my first one.
 
  Could you also tell me how I'm disregarding people's opinions in this
  thread? Examples?
 
  Or do you think stating my own opinions and concerns, while I'm clearly
(explicitly mentioned) thinking this topic through, is tantamount to
  disregarding other people's opinions?
 
  Do you really think I'm in this discussion with people just to disregard
  their opinions?
 
  I'm trying to consider the impact of changing a well-known well-used
  name that carries certain expectations (different ones for different
  people!) to something else that was set up explicitly to have different
  expectations, namely the Zope Toolkit.
 
  The Zope Toolkit concept was explicitly designed to *separate* those
  expectations from the (vague but broad) expectations surrounding Zope 3.
  I spent quite a bit of time trying to work that out. Now we're a few
  weeks later. It is proposed instead we rename what we called Zope 3 to
  Zope Toolkit and tell everybody that the expectations changed. I've
  expressed clearly that's an interesting approach and also clearly that I
  have some concerns.

 I am -1 on pushing a Zope3 is now the Zope Toolkit message:  I would
 rather that we *not bring up Zope3 in public again*, while still
 enabling those who have built apps atop the un-brand to maintain them.
 If somebody asks, Hey, what happened to Zope3?, we can explain briefly
 that the core of it is now ZTK, and that the other bits have a life of
 their own, but *without the un-brand*.

 To this end, I think we sholud remove all traces of the un-brand from
 prominent places on our websites, try to stay on message as a
 community, while re-focusing on the technical aspects of the transition
 (rather than the branding / perception ones).


 Tres.
 - --
 ===
 Tres Seaver  +1 540-429-0999  tsea...@palladion.com
 Palladion Software   Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com
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 Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Re: [ZWeb] svn server broken

2008-11-10 Thread Andrew Sawyers
If you blocked it at the load balancer or router, that would help in their
regard until the issue is fixed

Andrew


On 11/10/08 2:21 PM, Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Nov 10, 2008, at 7:01 AM, Christian Theune wrote:
 
 On Mon, 2008-11-10 at 02:40 -0500, David Lawson wrote:
 Sorry, svn.zope.org experienced a hardware failure earlier in the day
 which we believed we had remediated, but which has re-surfaced as
 something more serious.  We're working on getting it resolved and
 should have it back up soon, hopefully before noon EST.
 
 I'm with Martijn here. I'm happy you take care of the machine, but
 noon
 EST is a full working day in Europe without svn.zope.org. That's a lot
 of buildout processes hanging. So, please, pretty please, can you make
 the machine fail gracefully for the outside world and not have
 dangling
 connections?
 
 
 Unfortunately we can't. The file system on that machine isn't
 currently allowing writes. :(
 
 Jim
 
 --
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 Zope Corporation
 
 
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Re: [ZWeb] Instance problems

2008-10-01 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Autolance was used to kill (restart) instances which exceeded a certain
size
No clue how it's setup for the zope.org setup though.
Are there memory issues?  Did you restart the hung instances?

Andrew


On 10/1/08 11:57 AM, David Lawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 We got a page on cache problems relating to the zope.org site earlier
 this morning, I spent some time investigating and initially suspected
 a badly behaved spider from 61.230.26.210 was just slamming the
 servers and making them unhappy, so I dropped that IP at the firewall,
 but the problem has continued for the most part, and I'm not familiar
 enough with the ZO software to diagnose it further.  At the moment,
 one instance is up and serving relatively well, the other three,
 everything on app2.zope.org and instance2 on app1.zope.org are hung on
 connections.  I have found this error in the logs a few times, but
 honestly have no idea what it's refering to:
 2008-10-01T06:54:31 PROBLEM(100) AutoLance AutoLance memchecker died
 Traceback (innermost last):
File /home/zope/zope.org/var/app1/Products/AutoLance/__init__.py,
 line 269, in run
File /home/zope/zope.org/var/app1/Products/AutoLance/linuxproc.py,
 line 190, in self_statm
File /home/zope/zope.org/var/app1/Products/AutoLance/linuxproc.py,
 line 253, in get_dict
 TypeError: unsubscriptable object
 
 Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, if there's anything we can do, let
 us know, I'll probably be unavailable, but Jim knows where to find a
 Zope Corp SA.
 
 --Dave
 Systems Administrator
 Zope Corp.
 540-361-1722
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
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Re: [ZWeb] Re: zope.org - serious caching issues

2007-05-21 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Mon, 2007-05-21 at 10:09 -0400, Jim Fulton wrote:
 I'm adding zope-web to the CC list.
 I wish you hadn't done that yet.  If we keep changing things. it will  
 be hard to figure this out.
 
 It would be helpful to show the results of, say wget -S, as in:
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/tmp$ wget -S http://www.zope.org/news.rss
 --09:58:05--  http://www.zope.org/news.rss
 = `news.rss'
 Resolving www.zope.org... 63.240.213.171
 Connecting to www.zope.org|63.240.213.171|:80... connected.
 HTTP request sent, awaiting response...
HTTP/1.0 200 OK
Server: Zope/(unreleased version, python 2.2.3, linux2) ZServer/1.1b1
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 13:57:28 GMT
Content-Length: 4011
Content-Type: text/xml
Age: 4
X-Cache: HIT from parent-ng2.zmh.zope.net
X-Cache: MISS from cache2.zmh.zope.net
Connection: close
 Length: 4,011 (3.9K) [text/xml]
 
 100%[] 4,011 --.--K/s
 
 09:58:05 (365.80 KB/s) - `news.rss' saved [4011/4011]

 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/tmp$ wget --user jim --password xx -S http:// 
 www.zope.org/news.rss
 --10:00:45--  http://www.zope.org/news.rss
 = `news.rss.1'
 Resolving www.zope.org... 63.240.213.171
 Connecting to www.zope.org|63.240.213.171|:80... connected.
 HTTP request sent, awaiting response...
HTTP/1.0 200 OK
Server: Zope/(unreleased version, python 2.2.3, linux2) ZServer/1.1b1
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 13:45:20 GMT
Content-Length: 4011
Content-Type: text/xml
X-Cache: HIT from parent-ng2.zmh.zope.net
Age: 892
X-Cache: HIT from cache4.zmh.zope.net
Connection: close
 Length: 4,011 (3.9K) [text/xml]
 
 100%[] 4,011 --.--K/s
 
 10:00:45 (1.85 MB/s) - `news.rss.1' saved [4011/4011]
It looks to me like the cache tier has been changed; IIRC zope.org was
not in the cache tier I setup for Managed Hostingand didn't have (at
least) 4 cache servers in it's request flow.
 
 Note that the second request is authenticated (except with a  
 different password :)
That won't make any difference...they both resulted in a cache hit.  The
first time, you hit a front side cache server that didn't have it
cached: cache2, the second time, you hit a cache server that did have it
cached:  cache4.
 
 ...
 
  The objects do not display any caching policy in ZMI, but the cache
  manager still shows the enties in different variations.
What cache manager?
 
 Possibly because it doesn't know about the change.
 
 
  It looks like in issue in Zope.
 
 How so?  If you look at the wget output above, there don't seem to be  
 any cache headers set.  So, data would not be cached unless there is  
 an overriding policy in squid.
If the cache tier was changed and relying on the (old) default settings,
then it's going to cache for a certain period of time.
 
  If you see both te child and the parent MISS,
  then what you're getting is coming from the app server.
Yup.
 
 I'm getting a hit from the parent.  Also note that both hits have me  
 results for which the most recent entry is from March 29.  If I bust  
 the cache with a query string, the most recent entry is for May 15.
 
 
  That would also
  explain differences based on roles. There is nothing in squid that
  distinguishes if a user is authenticated, anonymous or manager.
I don't follow this, what explains the difference; there should be no
difference based on roles.
 
 I *think* Andrew Sawyers did something to arrange that non-anonymous  
 users get non-cached results.  This doesn't seem to be working any  
 more. This is bad. I'm hoping that however got this working properly  
 at some point can tell us what they did. :)
It's been a long time, but IIRC we got rid of all caching for zope.org
where a cache header wasn't explicitly being set.
 
 Jim
Was the cache servers changed around?  IIRC the zope.org tier only had 2
measly cachesand if they changed, I bet the rules where not changed
along with the cache servers.

Andrew

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Re: [ZWeb] Re: zope.org - serious caching issues

2007-05-21 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Mon, 2007-05-21 at 16:42 -0400, David Lawson wrote:

 
 It has, but mostly only in layout and some streamlining of the  
 configuration.  The basic rules you established are still in place,  
 since we assumed you had good reasons for them.  I haven't been  
 following this discussion terribly closely, but I'll take a closer  
 look at things this evening.

Well, trying to figure out what's changed...that would be the first
thing I'd check; just verify that the rules are indeed hitting the
requests.  How long has this problem been evident?  When did the changes
take place?  I presume awhile ago?

Andrew

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Re: [ZWeb] wiki.zope.org is still unreachable

2007-05-11 Thread Andrew Sawyers
I had to start the wiki instance by hand - as well as the foundation
instance.  If it's there, it's not working properly.  I haven't checked.

Andrew


On 5/10/07 7:06 PM, Simon Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 wiki.zope.org's zope server, at least, should have those startup scripts
 already. Pretty sure I saw it start up after the last server outage.
 
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Re: [ZWeb] wiki.zope.org is still unreachable

2007-05-10 Thread Andrew Sawyers
The last word I got was last night, there was a power supply failure at
Amaze's data center.  I would presume this would be a power supply failure
in the server which hosts these sites.  No further word.  I personally don't
have contact with Amaze, not any idea how to contact them.

Andrew


On 5/10/07 1:05 AM, Baiju M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Simon Michael wrote:
  Unfortunately, wiki.zope.org has been unreachable for more than 24
  hours now.
 
 What is the status now ?
 
 Regards,
 Baiju M
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Re: [ZWeb] wiki.zope.org is still unreachable

2007-05-10 Thread Andrew Sawyers
I think that's a generous offer - Thanks Chris.

The server is now back online.  I've restarted both the foundation site and
wiki site.  I'll add start up scripts for this to init.d in the near future
today/tomorrow - so that when the server restarts we don't have to manually
restart out software.

Andrew


On 5/10/07 5:17 AM, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Andrew Sawyers wrote:
 The last word I got was last night, there was a power supply failure at
 Amaze's data center.  I would presume this would be a power supply failure
 in the server which hosts these sites.  No further word.  I personally don't
 have contact with Amaze, not any idea how to contact them.
 
 Well, I'll make the offer again, I have a server in a rackspace
 datacenter in the states that is currently doing nothing but backup mx.
 It has 1TB month bandwidth, scsi raided disks and is monitored 24/7/365.
 
 cheers,
 
 Chris


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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Uploading the Installer for Windows

2007-03-01 Thread Andrew Sawyers
 Toc, toc. Is there anybody home?
I'll test it for you alsolet you know how it goes.

Andrew Sawyers

 On 2/23/07, Sidnei da Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Someone volunteered to test and upload the Zope Installer for Windows
 when one was ready. I believe Chris Withers was the vict..^H^H
 volunteer. There's an installer ready for testing over here:

 http://files.enfoldsystems.com/Zope-2.10.2-Final-6947.exe

 Thanks!

 --
 Sidnei da Silva
 Enfold Systemshttp://enfoldsystems.com
 Fax +1 832 201 8856 Office +1 713 942 2377 Ext 214



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Re: [ZWeb] zope.org frontpage modifications

2006-10-26 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Any reason why we don't want to just do a permanent redirect from old wikis
to new wikis?

Andrew


On 10/26/06 4:18 AM, Michael Haubenwallner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 for the records, a few changes have been made recently:
 
 zope.org frontpage
 - left column
replaced 'Zope Exits' with 'Zope Sites', now links to
http://zopewiki.org/Sites (anyone can add links and reorganize)
 - center column:
added the first paragraph from MembersFAQ to fill the space
betweem 'Zope for...' and the Zope/Plone training announcements
 - right column:
added a 'Planets' section on top of the sidebar
  featuring planet.zope.org and planet.plone.org
  - any other planets to include there ?
changed the number of NewsItems in the 'News' section
  from 7 to 5
 
 zope.org/Wikis
 - each ZWikiPage under that folder now has a message
describing its 'read-only' state and the move
to the new location at http://wiki.zope.org/...
- the message is inserted into the
  'header/portal_message' macro
  called by main_template
 
 Michael


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[ZWeb] Possible Cache Problem?

2006-10-24 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Intermittently going to the following URL returns a failed conneciton error:
http://zope.org/Collectors/Zope/1425

Since we have no insight into the caches - not sure whom to inform.


The following error was encountered:

   * Connection Failed

The system returned:

   (111) Connection refused

The remote host or network may be down. Please try the request again.

Your cache administrator is [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Generated Tue, 24 Oct 2006 16:25:52 GMT by parent-ng1.zmh.zope.net
(squid/2.5.STABLE12)


Andrew Sawyers


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Re: [ZWeb] Skinning the new zope 3 wiki

2006-10-16 Thread Andrew Sawyers

On 10/16/06 9:32 AM, Jens Vagelpohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 
 On 16 Oct 2006, at 09:26, Lennart Regebro wrote:
 
 On 10/16/06, Jens Vagelpohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hm... I thought we had not made any decision as to a _zope.org_
 design, only a _foundation.zope.org_ design - those are two different
 things.
I thought the exact opposite.  Go figure.

I think the foundation site slurped the new zope.org look and feel because
it was something that needed to be up sooner.

 
 You're definitely right on that, I just wanted to bring it up so we
 don't have a lot of people starting to complain *after* the redesign
 work for other microsites has been done. Besides, if we choose a
 different design for zope.org it might be a bit confusing when you
 jump to a wiki site with a different design - unless that doesn't
 matter.
 
 We should have a quick show of hands throughout today to make sure we
 don't end up in some squabble over this.
 
 +1 from me - I think the simple foundation design is perfectly fine
 for the wiki microsite.
 
 jens

Regardless, clarification and finalization would be nice.
I think the work Tom did for the zope.org site should span all the
*.zope.org sites.

Andrew


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Re: [ZWeb] Skinning the new zope 3 wiki

2006-10-16 Thread Andrew Sawyers



On 10/16/06 9:35 AM, Lennart Regebro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 10/16/06, Jens Vagelpohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 You're definitely right on that, I just wanted to bring it up so we
 don't have a lot of people starting to complain *after* the redesign
 work for other microsites has been done.
 
 Yes, good point!
 
 Besides, if we choose a
 different design for zope.org it might be a bit confusing when you
 jump to a wiki site with a different design - unless that doesn't
 matter.
 
 Well, I think this design is born from the design originally made for
 zope.org, no?
 So hopefully we can use something similar for all the sites.
 ___

You are right Lennart - I think Jens is a little confused.  :)

A


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Re: [ZWeb] Foundation Site

2006-10-16 Thread Andrew Sawyers
This will not be the case in the official foundation website.  There's
apparently a bug in docutils

Andrew


On 10/16/06 6:51 AM, Tom Von Lahndorff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 Im noticing that the pages of the Foundation website are pages within
 pages. Meaning entire pages including the doctype, body and head tags
 were pasted within the site wrapper. These secondary doctype body and
 head tags should be removed.
 
 On Oct 15, 2006, at 9:29 PM, Andrew Sawyers wrote:
 
 On 10/14/06 2:12 PM, Michael Bernstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 On Thu, 2006-10-12 at 23:37 -0400, Andrew Sawyers wrote:
 See:  foundation.zope.org
 
 This is using Darryl's magic.  It was painful to get such a beast
 of RH 9
 working (with 2 arms tied behind my back) but we did it.  Thanks
 Darryl and
 David from ZC.
 
 I will need to speak with someone about getting the necessary
 pieces from
 Darryl's end into svn so we can have the whole ball of wax in svn.
 
 Great work! Very classy looking, and well organized.
 
 Minor consistency nit: Something seems to be changing the width of
 the
 'columntwo' div in all the pages under 'Membership'. This is
 causing the
 grey Z-ball watermark to shift left by various amounts for these
 pages,
 instead of lining up with the to header watermark.
 
 This was observed with Firefox 1.5.
 
 - Michael Bernstein
 
 
 Yeah, this happens to me as well.  I'm cc'ing Tom to see if he
 might have
 some fixes in mind...
 
 Andrew Sawyers
 
 
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Re: [ZWeb] Foundation Site

2006-10-16 Thread Andrew Sawyers
I don't see a rightcolumn class in Foundation stuffmaybe missing the
obvious though.

A


On 10/16/06 6:47 AM, Tom Von Lahndorff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 That should do it. For the Foundation website though it should be on
 the .rightcolumn class.
 
 
 On Oct 16, 2006, at 3:36 AM, Kevin Teague wrote:
 
 I think I figured out an easy fix for the watermark bug. In
 the .content declaration of the CSS add:
 
 right: 0px;
 
 This should pin the right side of the content box to the edge of
 the browser window and the watermark lines up :)
 
 I've only tested this on FF and Safari on Mac, but it should work
 in IE6, that's a pretty stable, bug free browser ...
 
 - Kevin
 
 On Oct 15, 2006, at 2:55 PM, Michael Bernstein wrote:
 
 On Sat, 2006-10-14 at 11:12 -0700, Michael Bernstein wrote:
 Minor consistency nit: Something seems to be changing the width
 of the
 'columntwo' div in all the pages under 'Membership'. This is
 causing the
 grey Z-ball watermark to shift left by various amounts for these
 pages,
 instead of lining up with the to header watermark.
 
 Typo, sorry: top header watermark.
 
 - Michael Bernstein
 
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Re: [ZWeb] Foundation Site

2006-10-16 Thread Andrew Sawyers
All kinds of weird behavior with that under Firefox on my Mac.
Paste me the entire class definition for .columntwo

Andrew


On 10/16/06 2:51 PM, Darryl Cousins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Mon, 2006-10-16 at 15:25 -0400, Andrew Sawyers wrote:
 I don't see a rightcolumn class in Foundation stuffmaybe missing the
 obvious though.
 
 A
 
 
 Hi Andrew,
 
 This works for me (Firefox 1.5.0.4 - haven't tested IE, but should be
 ok):
 
 Replace:
 
 .columntwo {
 display: block;
 position: absolute;
 top: 0px;
 left: 150px;
 ...
 
 With:
 
 .columntwo {
 display: block;
 position: absolute;
 top: 0px;
 right: 0px; /* changed from left */
 margin-left: 150px; /* added */
 ...
 
 Regards,
 Darryl
 


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Re: [ZWeb] Foundation Site

2006-10-15 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On 10/14/06 1:36 AM, Darryl Cousins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


  And docutils needs to be updated on the
 server (cheers Baiju and Andreas) and that there is a typo (cheers
 Carlos).
 
 Is the full code up on svn.zope.org? It doesn't appear to be at
 http://svn.zope.org/web/zf/trunk/. I have recently acquired commit
 privileges and could attend to the menu and to the typo.
 
 Andrew - can you fix docutils? And will you you remain responsible for
 updating rest files on the server (ssh/svn update)? Can I volunteer?
 
 Regards,
 Darryl
 

I don't think docutils needs to be updated - it could, but I grabbed the
latest version when I set all this up last week.

None of the changes I've made are back into svn - the account we're using
doesn't have write access.

Yes, you can volunteer
Andrew


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Re: [ZWeb] Foundation Site

2006-10-15 Thread Andrew Sawyers

On 10/14/06 3:00 AM, Baiju M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 10/14/06, Darryl Cousins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Is the full code up on svn.zope.org? It doesn't appear to be at
 http://svn.zope.org/web/zf/trunk/. I have recently acquired commit
 privileges and could attend to the menu and to the typo.
 
 Since you got commit privilege, you can commit it.
 I think we can put those programs/scripts here:
   svn://svn.zope.org/repos/main/web/scripts
 (This directory is not created yet)
 
 Martijn, is it OK?
 
 Andrew - can you fix docutils? And will you you remain responsible for
 updating rest files on the server (ssh/svn update)? Can I volunteer?
 
 What about setting up a cronjob for updating (once in a day) ?
 
 Regards,
 Baiju M

Those scripts need to be in the server root (i.e. The root of the svn check
we use for the 'content' files).  There's no reason to have to move them
around to work as they do currently:  they are located in the site root.
They are not in svn yet...

Andrew


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Re: [ZWeb] Apache config for lists.zope.org/mail.zope.org fubar?

2006-10-13 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Not exactly.  An Apache directive fubar doesn't cause spam making it through
mailman.

Andrew


On 10/13/06 4:15 AM, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 yep :-)
 
 Chris
 
 Lennart Regebro wrote:
 Does this have anything with the sudden onsplurt of spam via Zope
 mailing lists?
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Re: [ZWeb] Zone Edit nameserver Offerings FYI

2006-10-13 Thread Andrew Sawyers
$10.95 a year, for ea. additional one you want

Andrew


On 10/13/06 12:09 PM, Christian Theune [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 So what's the price tag on the deal?
 
 Andrew Sawyers wrote:
 Zone Edit offers DNS services on different continents for a small fee.  We
 can easily support our requirements with little effort from these folks:
 
 ZoneEdit's basic service offers a pair of DNS servers with 24x7 monitoring
 and recovery on each server. Each server is located on a distinct and
 separately maintained network with a 99.9% uptime.
 
 With DNS, if any one server goes down, the other servers are used.
 Therefore, each nameserver you add to your domain greatly reduces the odds
 of an outage.
 
 For your most important domains, we highly reccomend using 3 or 4 DNS
 servers. We have never had a 3 server outage. We offer a 100% uptime
 guarantee for domains with four ZoneEdit nameservers.
 
 If you are already a ZoneEdit customer, you can log in, click on your most
 important domain, click Advanced, click Nameservers, and click Purchase
 an Extra Backup Nameserver. You can then choose the country and location of
 the new nameserver.
 
 If you are not using ZoneEdit's DNS, you can sign up to use our secondary
 DNS service. Our servers will be automatically synchronized with your
 primary servers, and are added to your domain as DNS backups.
 
 We offer up to 8 managed DNS networks in the US, Canada, Europe, and
 Australia. For your most important domains, use ZoneEdit's backup DNS.


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Re: [ZWeb] DNS still fishy?

2006-10-12 Thread Andrew Sawyers
FYI, there's a problem with your host Justizin:

 server ns1.zoneedit.com
Default server: ns1.zoneedit.com
Address: 207.234.248.200#53
 cvs.zope.org
Server: ns1.zoneedit.com
Address:207.234.248.200#53

Name:   cvs.zope.org
Address: 63.240.213.173
 server ns.qutang.net
Default server: ns.qutang.net
Address: 70.84.6.50#53
 cvs.zope.org
Server: ns.qutang.net
Address:70.84.6.50#53

Name:   cvs.zope.org
Address: 63.240.213.171
 


In my opinion, the registrar should only have zoneedit.com servers in it for
the time being.

Andrew 


On 10/12/06 11:02 AM, Justizin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 10/12/06, Lennart Regebro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Just a couple of notes here.
 
 Although zoneedit has been running fine for me for years without a
 single problem, obviously it would be nice with some backup.
 Preferably something with another ISP and located on like another
 continent or something. Two of these backups would be even better.
 
 But honestly, compare the likelyhood that all three of these would
 fail at one time, together with the increasing likelyhood than one
 server of them is misconfigured and starts disturbing the usage for a
 minor part of the users, then we will quickly realize that the more
 backups and failsafes we have the larger the likelyhood that something
 of this will go wrong.
 
 the worst that happens is that some changes fail to propogate.
 changes to DNS should always be approached with the assumption that
 this will happen.  What's worse is for there to be no copy of a zone
 available.
 
 It should never be necessary for an A record to change immediately,
 because this cannot be relied upon.  The best defense to this is,
 however, to set TTLs at 300s, or 5 minutes, about a week in advance.
 
 8 servers seems to be to be a complete overkill, and it will only
 cause problems. I will change my mind on this the time all zone-edit
 servers stop working at the same time as two of the backups fail.
 
 It could cause problems, and that's why we aren't really using eight
 servers right now, but it should not cause problems.  It is a
 challenge, also, that our DNS is not hosted in the same location as
 the website.  So, it's possible that DNS will be unreachable when an
 outage occurs, i.e. a fibre being cut in the middle of the ocean, and
 this outage may not actually affect our site.
 
 I bet ten bucks if we rely entirely on zoneedit's nameservers that
 this will happen once for at least twelve hours for some significant
 region of the world within the next year.
 
 Don't overcomplicate things. It just makes them fail.
 
 This assumption really has nothing to do with what happened this week.
 
 What happened this week was either:
 
   (a) a typo
 
   (b) an erroneously truncated string
 
 If there were only two nameservers, they would have pointed at the
 wrong IP, and the site would have been perceptually unavailable for a
 few hours to two days for various people.  If there were eight, the
 same would happen, for about the same time frame.
 
 So, if you want to only use two nameservers, that's okay with me.
 Remember to wake me up when the zone is unreachable for someone and we
 want to run more. :)
 
 I always assume, if anything, that some machines, network connections,
 disk drives, etc.. will invariably fail, and that you can never have
 too many if they are available.  I like the idea of a group of zope
 community members collectively providing DNS service.  Maybe we should
 even talk about running multiple copies of the flat content in
 different places.  If my site goes down, esp if one of my machines
 fail, I much prefer to feel comfortable that I can reach zope.org than
 rely on the possibility that i might have copies of recent releases in
 another location.  if i'm going to keep copies of the releases around
 for myself, might as well mirror them, eh?
 
 While having a set of servers configured by various people sounds as
 if it would be overcomplicated, with proper planning and coordination,
 we should be able to keep it simple.
 
 When making changes to DNS, always assume that for 48 hours there will
 be between a 90-10 and 10-90 split between people who have your new
 records and people who have old records.  When changing nameservers,
 double or triple this, because some people will have cached records
 from the old nameserver *and* more recently cached NS records, so they
 may continue querying the old nameserver until the cached NS record
 itself expires.
 
 When something critical like svn/cvs or the main website need to be
 changed, again, it is necessary to drop the TTL, on the entire zone,
 even, to something really short like 300s about a week in advance.
 This ensures that everyone in the world has a copy of the zone which
 says: no copy of this zone and no records in this zone are good for
 longer than five minutes..  Just before a switch is made, you can
 proxy the old front-end apache server to the new host explicitly, and
 then 

Re: [ZWeb] DNS still fishy?

2006-10-12 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Can we have only zoneedit as the registered nameservers?  3 out of the 5
listed name servers at the registrar are wrong.  We need this fixed ASAP.


Andrew


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Re: [ZWeb] DNS still fishy?

2006-10-12 Thread Andrew Sawyers



On 10/12/06 8:07 PM, Jens Vagelpohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 - - I went in and made one minor correction to the foundation.zope.org
 record
 
 The data is now clean and consistent and it will just take
 propagation time to get that through to all users. When this has
 happened we can think of integrating more DNS servers.
 
 
 I'm also more than happy to do what I can on the Apache front.
 
 Apache is now working as far as the old hosts, like mail.zope.org
 or lists.zope.org are concerned. Dave at ZC fixed that one after I
 emailed ZC. Anything after this point should only involve managing
 the separate foundation Apache instance configuration on
 cvs.zope.org:/usr/local/apache2/conf, if you email Jim he can set you
 up with the ability to sudo to become the static user.
 
 jens

We added the .174 IP this morning; since it's not working yet I wasn't
worried about switching.  One thing is essential - if you're going to muck
with stuff, be in #zope-web when you do it.  While this didn't cause a
problem...things could easily in the future and we don't want people
crossing wires.

I am curious as to what fubar'd the apache - cuz the addition of the virtual
domain conf file for the foundaiton had nothing to do with it.

Until this site gets done (using Darryl's setup) I'd prefer people leave it
alone.  I've been working through this fuster cluck for many hours now -
thanks to not having enough access to get things done and running on an
antiquated system:  RH 9.0

Woo hoo!

Andrew Sawyers


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[ZWeb] Foundation Site

2006-10-12 Thread Andrew Sawyers
See:  foundation.zope.org

This is using Darryl's magic.  It was painful to get such a beast of RH 9
working (with 2 arms tied behind my back) but we did it.  Thanks Darryl and
David from ZC.

I will need to speak with someone about getting the necessary pieces from
Darryl's end into svn so we can have the whole ball of wax in svn.


Andrew Sawyers


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Re: Zope.org DNS ( was Re: [ZWeb] http://namespaces.zope.org/zope )

2006-09-27 Thread Andrew Sawyers
You didn't cc tres - but I'm sitting next to him, and informed him *we*
volunteered cabana if we want it.Tres actually doesn't use cabana as a
nameserver - mainly me (unless the other guys have changed how the have
their domains setup).

A


On 9/27/06 3:52 AM, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Justizin wrote:
 I haven't even got my responder up yet, to be honest.
 
 I'll be moving my domains to zoneedit at the same time as zope.org.
 
 I assume one of these is yours, and one of them jens' ?
 
   cabana.palladion.com   69.44.155.17
 
 That'll be Tres (cc'ed in 'cos I don't know if he's on this list)
 
   ns1.dataflake.org   8.7.96.28
 
 That'll be Jens.
 
 cheers,
 
 Chris


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Re: [ZWeb] http://namespaces.zope.org/zope

2006-09-27 Thread Andrew Sawyers



On 9/27/06 11:57 AM, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Justizin wrote:
 Perhaps I am making a wild and sweeping assumption here, but I think
 that Chris is talking about the DNS servers which are controlled by
 software the team I worked on at Rackspace was responsible for, and
 look like ns.rackspace.com. ;)
 
 Yep, so you're responsible for that crappy ui?
 Dotster's wins for ease of use so far...
 
 So, I'm actually curious if they have implemented a feature which was
 not high priority when I worked there, and that is the ability to
 configure their nameservers as slaves.
 
 Don't think so, it's just that I can host dns there for stuff that
 isn't hosted on their servers.
 
 I'd hope their nameservers are also pretty robust?
 
 Tom - do you know if Rackspace's nameservers are capable of serving up
 a slave copy of a zone which is managed at ZoneEdit.com?
 
 When I wrote that email, I was actually proposing hosting the masters
 there. I don't mind being DNS boy for zope.org and I'd hope
 rackspace's nameservers would scale to the challenge...
This is why I proposed using zoneedit
 
 We'd like to
 de-centralize the zope.org zone so that no one individual or
 organization such as Zope Corp are responsible for / in control of it.

 
 If I ever did stop doing Zope stuff (hahahaha) then I'd happilly hand
 the records on to someone else.
Easily done at zoneedit (change pasword) and no pain in migrating.  Bad
idead IMNSHO putting this into a single persons control.
 
 If I dropped dead (or got taken out by that hitman Jens keeps on
 promising), the DNS could similarly be moved elsewhere...
 
No need to be moved if it's on zoneedit.

 I presume one of our volunteers is a Rackspace customer, and is thus
 offering to host our domain as part of their account.
 
 That'd be me ;-)
 
 cheers,
 
 Chris

This solution is already started, lets just put it to bed?

Andrew


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Re: [ZWeb] http://namespaces.zope.org/zope

2006-09-27 Thread Andrew Sawyers



On 9/27/06 12:10 PM, Justizin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 9/27/06, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Justizin wrote:

 
 
 When I left, I believe NS and NS2 were both load balanced clusters of
 three large machines, which probably sit behind PrevenTier, a patented
 DoS-aversion system, now.  They may also have moved onto geographic
 load balancing.  I wouldn't really know.
 
 Tom - do you know if Rackspace's nameservers are capable of serving up
 a slave copy of a zone which is managed at ZoneEdit.com?
 
 When I wrote that email, I was actually proposing hosting the masters
 there. I don't mind being DNS boy for zope.org and I'd hope
 rackspace's nameservers would scale to the challenge...
 
 
 If you want to do that, I don't object to losing Czar status. ;)
 
 I am concerned that we can't easily allow a team of people who aren't
 on your private customer account access to do this.  I'm already
 concerned that with my ZoneEdit account I can't give anyone else
 access, and was going to propose opening a Zope Foundation account
 which several people could have access to.
 
This is the key to using something like zoneedit - so you can share it.
 That said, concern raised, what do Martijin and others think?
If you made a 'personal' account and are then putting zope.org into that -
don't do that.  Make a 'shared' account just for zope.org
 
 We could still slave to Rack's nameservers.
Don't we have enough slave volunteers right now?


Andrew


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Re: Zope.org DNS ( was Re: [ZWeb] http://namespaces.zope.org/zope )

2006-09-26 Thread Andrew Sawyers



On 9/26/06 11:10 AM, Jens Vagelpohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 
 On 26 Sep 2006, at 17:02, Andrew Sawyers wrote:
 
 We can use someone like zoneedit.com for the primary, and then have
 a bunch
 of secondaries.I'm sure there's lots of us who could do
 secondary dns
 for this.  I've used zoneedit for several years now - flawlessly.
 First 5
 domains are free - so that shouldn't be a problem.
 
 Hey Andrew, learn bottom-posting please!
 
 I haven't worked with zoneedit, but would volunteer a secondary DNS
 setup on one of my boxes.
 
 DNS changes should be very tightly regulated and the group of people
 who can make them should be very small since DNS is a very important
 wheel in the machinery which can break all other services if not
 handled correctly. I don't think it is important to have some newbie-
 friendly tool.
 
 jens
 
This has nothing to do with a newbie friendly tool - but a third party to be
the primary, so that a single person isn't the 'owner' of this - so those
with appropriate access can manage this.  I'm sure all of us on the list
understand the importance of DNS and it's reliability.  Since it's free and
been around for years, I thought it was worthy of looking at for the group.

Andrew


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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Read what I wrote.  :)
A


On 9/25/06 8:38 AM, Jens Vagelpohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 
 On 25 Sep 2006, at 14:31, Andrew Sawyers wrote:
 
 If it is simply taking what's running and set it up on a new set of
 servers,
 it would be fairly trivial.  There's 1 or 2 zeo client servers.
 There's a
 storage server.  There's cvs/svn and mail and ldap lives some where
 in that
 mix.  :)  That's about it.
 
 That's not trivial by any stretch of the imagination...  If you
 wanted to rebuild that whole infrastructure you're be siting there a
 couple days I'd think.
 
 I don't know if there are (working) automated buildouts, if there
 aren't then the only way to get a working ZEO client quickly would be
 to copy a complete instance, file by file, from the old system and
 then recompile anything that is compiled.
 
 jens
 
 
 
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin)
 
 iD8DBQFFF83RRAx5nvEhZLIRAr7wAJwKiGSOWlKzTVp6ZbNfp16I0yGftQCeNBW9
 81QmOI3B5/1CIYaK56YaW1w=
 =MVJU
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Andrew Sawyers
There's a lot more to it then LDAP.  LDAP doesn't make it hard, it just
makes it harder.
The goal (or lack thereof) will make it hard or trivial.  Regardless, I
didn't say rebuilding everything from scratch and sorting out the 'mess'.  I
said if it's just resetting up on a different group of servers.

Regardless, it's always subjective - and it's not that hard.  :)

A


On 9/25/06 9:56 AM, Lennart Regebro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 9/25/06, Jens Vagelpohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I read what you wrote and I do not think it is trivial.
 
 I agree.  I'd guess that for somebody that knows the LDAP software
 better than me, it might take a day or two. That's not trivial. It's
 also not hard. I'd call it ehm, Not too hard. :-)


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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Andrew Sawyers



On 9/25/06 10:04 AM, Lennart Regebro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 9/25/06, Andrew Sawyers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 There's a lot more to it then LDAP.  LDAP doesn't make it hard
 
 For me it does. That's why I said somebody that knows it better than me. :-)
 
 Regardless, it's always subjective - and it's not that hard.  :)
 
 Not that hard sounds like a reasonable compromise. :-)
 Now, when we agree that this is not that hard do we think we should do it?
Not sure, what's the goal?  :)

The reason it should be done, would be to improve the underlying hardware.
The other reason would be so that the community can manage all aspects of
it's setup.  If it's still like it was, then parts of the architecture are
not going to be accessible by anyone in the community.  If I were doing it,
I would put as little effort into the existing setup as possible and all
effort into where it's going.

 Personally, I don't care where www.zope.org is currently located, and
 I also think we should replace it part by part with microsites, like
 wiki.zope.org, bugs.zope.org, news.zope.org, products.zope.org and so
 on, until www.zope.org gets useless, and we can move it to
 old.zope.org and replace it with a new snazzy front-page, linking to
 all the other sites.
That's easily done with rewrite rules at the cache.

Andrew




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Re: [ZWeb] Re: the maintenance of change logs

2006-09-25 Thread Andrew Sawyers
We just need to resurface the svn location of the doc and update if
necessary.

A


On 9/25/06 11:18 AM, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Martijn Faassen wrote:
 Andrew Sawyers wrote:
 This is all documented in subversion IIRC.  Jim will know.
 
 We need to make sure there are people in the foundation (besides Jim and
 ZC) who know. I'll ask Jim.
 
 Actually strike out 'foundation' and read 'community' in the line above.
 
 Regards,
 
 Martijn
 


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Re: [ZWeb] volunteers wanted! zope foundation website as guinea pig

2006-08-22 Thread Andrew Sawyers
What's up with zopefoundation.org - especially since it's changed since I
looked at it yesterday?  :P)

A


On 8/22/06 1:43 PM, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi there,
 
 It's nearing september, and I'd like to start some work on zope.org, in
 particular www.zope.org/foundation. I'm looking for volunteers to help.
 
 As you all probably know, we have a Zope Foundation, of which I'm a
 board member (representative for the committer members). Aroldo
 Souza-Leite is also on the board as chairman.
 
 Aroldo and I are the board members responsible for the zope.org website
 committee. The task of the zope.org committee is to improve the zope.org
 web presence. Aroldo and I won't be doing the work or decision making
 alone, but since we have the backing of the foundation, we can make
 decisions stick. Volunteers are welcome to join this committee!
 
 One of the first tasks at hand is to improve the presence of the Zope
 Foundation on the web. We currently have a section here:
 
 http://www.zope.org/foundation
 
 This website doesn't look very pretty at all. My proposal is to
 reorganize it, have some introductory text, put in links to relevant
 information resources, such as mailing lists (including this one), and
 to stick a nice layout around it.
 
 This project will serve two purposes:
 
 * to create a nice website for the foundation.
 
 * serve as an example and test case for the wider zope.org renewal project.
 
 So, please help us out.
 
 Layout
 --
 
 I propose we use Tom Von Lahndorff's design for the foundation website.
 For the purposes of the foundation site we should strip it down:
 
 * no login necessary
 
 * no search (unless we integrate google-based search, perhaps)
 
 * possibly no drop-down menus at the top. We could simply have links
 there, or possibly a standard left-hand side navigation. This design is
 the top page; we need to see a sub-page design as well.
 
 Tom, are you still there? This time we're going to use what you made
 quickly, if you're willing!
 
 Structure and text
 --
 
 Aroldo and I (Aroldo, I'm volunteering you :) are willing to work on a
 bunch of restructured text documents that introduce the zope foundation
 and set up the site structure.
 
 Technology
 --
 
 I've said this before, and I'll just repeat it again: let's try to avoid
 technology discussions as much as we can. Most of us, including myself,
 are techies, so it's attractive to do this, but we just want to put a
 website up. This doesn't require any new technology, nor does it require
 a heavy-duty CMS.
 
 To break my own rule on no technology discussions right way:
 
 I propose letting www.zope.org/foundation point to a Apache directory,
 where we maintain HTML files. We will then generate such HTML files from
 restructured text we maintain in the zope SVN repository, using a simple
 script that drives docutils.
 
 If you want examples of websites that are managed this way and I have
 personal experience with, check out the following places on codespeak:
 
 http://codespeak.net/z3/
 
 http://codespeak.net/lxml/
 
 Since we're not aiming for a big site, this should be sufficient technology.
 
 For the larger zope.org, we may need something else, or we may not.
 Let's treat the foundation website as a trial case here too, and see how
 we like it.
 
 There's one alternative to this approach that will also work on the
 short term: a volunteer that's willing to work with zope.org and
 integrate the layout and text and structure we want into existing
 zope.org infrastructure. If someone volunteers to work on this, I'd be
 happy to do it that way as well. Does anyone volunteer?
 
 Any other technological approaches require more setup and I'd like to
 defer them for the time being. We can take them up when we tackle
 zope.org proper.
 
 I hope we can all have this together in a couple of weeks, so let's
 start working!
 
 Regards,
 
 Martijn
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Re: [Zope] Improved Zope Org Proposal

2006-06-27 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 09:50 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote:
 On 6/27/06, John Schinnerer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  This is a basic principle of design that works (as opposed to design
  that fails to work).
  Start small and work the edges outwards.
  The work edges outwards that works is often modular in nature (perhaps
  a.k.a. 'micro-sites').
  That doesn't mean it can't look-and-feel like one big site as access
  point.
 
  Biting off more than one (person, organization, whatever) can chew
  usually results in choking...
 
 Exactly my points.
 
  So I actually see a lot of agreement in what may appear to be argument.
 
 Well, the proposal is to start only with the accesspoint (and the
 origonal proposal did not contain anything else than the access point,
 and also proposed it to be interim, for some reason).
This is not true Lennart.  I'm not going to keep arguing with you; but I
think it was clear from what I originally sent this is not as you
describe it.  Of course, I wrote it - and maybe I'm thinking more to
myself about what I mean then saying it.

  We can't start
 with only the accesspoint, as we would have no product listing and ...
I wonder how all the other successful projects out there manage to not
have an arbitrary products listing managed in their sites.  PHP, JAVA,
RoR, Python, ad nauseum.  I just don't see how it's the sole stopping
point.  Write the 'Zope product' management software and expose it as a
service - put it on the site.  Nearly everyone uses Google to find
anything they care about anyhow.

No one said bag the collectors.  Rewrite http://www.zope.org/Collectors/
to collectors.zope.org and that's done.
 no collector other than at old.zope.org, which would be completely
 bizarre. We have to start, as a minimum, with creating a
 products.zope.org and a collector.zope.org (or maybe rather
 bugs.zope.org) before we can replace www.zope.org. 
 None of this is hard to do. It should be doable in a couple of days worth of 
 work, in
 any case less than a week.
Are you volunteering to do those two things in the next week?  If so,
then maybe we can move forward if the foundation has interest.

Andrew

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Re: [Zope] Improved Zope Org Proposal

2006-06-25 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Sun, 2006-06-25 at 08:38 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote:
 
 OK; I see what you mean now. You ant to create the www.zope.org that
 works as the main entrance and integratoor of the microsites. The
 proble is that you wnat to do that BEFORE the microsites exist, which
 is backwards.
I'd beg to differ.  A community such as what PHP has built didn't work
this way.  They managed this very successfully.  We have not.  I think
the problem is you want to wait until the complete city is built before
you think you can open select stores for business.  So, I guess we'll
have to agree to disagree on approach.
 
 Also, you seem to think that the microsites can be run by whoever
 under whatever domainname. That doesn't work. We can't have our main
 product site disappear because the guy who managed it got tired or
 forget to pay his internet provider bill. And it looks bad if the
 community is a hodgepodge of domains and URLs.
Yes, I seem to think this.  You seem to think it needs to continue to be
centrally managed., which has been a proven failure IMNSHO.

If you're concerned about domains are easily managed.  It's called a
CNAME.  You seem to presume the worst case.  I'm more of a capitalist in
regards to what I'd expect to happen here.  Empower the community and
acknowledge them, and they will do what is necessary.  

We've seen the success of a group trying to centrally manage the entire
breadth of zope.org.  As far as I know, the community has been empowered
to do things to improve the state and condition of the zope.org arena
for quite a long time.  Nothing has happened substantially.  What has
happened though, is community areas have popped up to fill the failing
area on zope.org because it was easier for them and they cared to do
something.  Promoting this IS the right way, IMNSHO.  Rewarding this, is
the right way INMNSHO.  Wishing it is going to happen out of ether is
questionable, just because the foundation is now formed.  I'd love to be
wrong, but unless people had so much contempt for Zope Corp directly
that they refused to do anything on these fronts for that reason alone,
I don't see how this situation magically changes.  Prove me wrong.
 
 I say that you repost this proposal when we have some community sites
 to integrate. :-)
I appreciate you saying that - but again, I beg to differ.  What you
propose is to continue to have the current status quo.  I and others are
proposing to force the move.  Guess I could wait to move into my new
house because the carpets and hardwood floors aren't laid yet - or I
could move in and make due.  I prefer the later.

  I think we have the community sites.  We have docs on plope.com (but
I'd prefer those to actually live on zope.org).  We have zopelabs.com,
we have zwikis.org IIRC, there is a great site D2M has been doing work
on, and there are several others which have great content.  None of
which push their content back to zope.org - but can, and can be used to
fulfill our immediate needs.  The only community site which is yet to
step up is a product site.  No one is saying bag products on zope.org
the day after.  Do something - there's plenty who have and are waiting
to do more.  Don't squash that.


Andrew

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Re: [Zope] Improved Zope Org Proposal

2006-06-25 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Sun, 2006-06-25 at 21:41 +0200, Dieter Maurer wrote:
 
 Then I fear few interesting content will arrive at this site.
 
Well, I think the content of this site is what I'd noted is what I noted
in earlier emails.  It might not be 'interesting', but I would hope it
to be quality and focused.  I have faith the 'interesting' aspects you
wish will come from the community.

 We use Plone.org's infrastructure. When I remember right,
 we have membership there and this membership contributes
 a good deal of valuable content (software, howtos, faqs).
We have failed at managing the breadth of content and properly
presenting it to potential and exisitng Zope users.  Maybe that
sub-community has not.
 
 Why should it be different for Zope.org?
Because it has not shown it can rise to the occasion.  Outside our
community this might not be so obvious, but referring new co-workers to
zope.org when they inquire as to the technology I bring to the table at
work, is an embarrassment.

I think my position is pretty clear.  It's up to the Foundation
ultimately.  I was asked to get the proposal out.  I've provided my
view.  The rest will become history.  :)

Andrew

 
 
 

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Re: [Zope] Improved Zope Org Proposal

2006-06-24 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Sat, 2006-06-24 at 20:13 +0200, Dieter Maurer wrote:
 Andrew Sawyers wrote at 2006-6-23 18:15 -0400:
  ...
   For bug
   tracking, either links to the existing ZC trackers or
   a Trac installation.
 
 If you move to Trac *PLEASE* migrate the current issues.
 
   It is very discouraging to loose all the bug reports
   and patches (as happened when a former collector site crashed).
Of course, if that were to happen, there would have to be a migration.
Agreed.
 
  ...
 Content
 ---
 
 * The existing
   concept of membership for uploading bit-rot content will be retired.
 
 This means what?
There would be VERY limited things an individual could upload.  I
personally argued strongly for 0 membership on this site.  If the ideas
of micro sites went forward, the appropriate micro sites could allow (or
not) membership as necessary.
 
 Some of the current content might not be very valuable but
 there are also great pieces of software!
Devil's in the details.  I would presume all software could be retained
in some manner forever.  ??  I'd personally like to see a community
member step up and write a kick ass Zope software site - dedicated to
community software packages.  If that didn't happen, maybe we can
migrate software packages to sourceforge if the 'owners' are MIA?  
 
 * Existing community content on zope.org will NOT be migrated.
   The content will be made available on ZC's existing server
   via URL rewriting (to keep existing links from breaking) or
   by moving everything to an old.zope.org domain.  The best
   content will be migrated by hand to PloneHelpCenter / 
   PloneSoftwareCenter products.
 
 Who will decides which content is worth migration?
For the site I refer to, only that which meets the scope of the site.
Again, I'd love to see community members step up for the areas which are
necessary for supporting things which Lennart refers to.  I personally
don't think those sites need to be official Zope (Foundation).  I think
Zope Labs is an excellent site which fills some of this niche.  A Zope
Foundation site should not compete where the community excells already
in my opinion.

I don't disagree with Lennart, just possibly who 'runs' it.


Andrew
 
 
 
 

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Re: [Zope] Improved Zope Org Proposal

2006-06-24 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Sat, 2006-06-24 at 10:58 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote:

 We have already made a new www.zope.org once. That was an ambitious
 project, which potential did not become fully realized. We need to
 take with us the experiences of that.
 
Trust me, many of us do.  Jens and I spent many many hours on the
predecessor to www.zope.org which got canned.  Thus, I think it's
imperative to limit the scope and focus of www.zope.org to that which I
noted.  Superior documentation, Product releases from svn.zope.org and
Marketing. 

 And this is mainly:
 
 1. We do NOT want a new www.zope.org.
Oh, you may not be 'WE' do.  Some of us make up the 'WE'.  We want it.
No need to argue this point.


  We want MANY new
 something.zope.org. We should have a products.zope.org, and a
 collector.zope.org, and a faq.zope.org, and a wiki.zope.org, and
 blablabla.

I agree, to some degree - where we may disagree is who 'manages' and
runs them.  I would like to see the community step up and create those
sites as it interests them.


 www.zope.org would be an hyping site, where we hype zope, and referr
 people to the other microsites.  -- Community Sites

I agree - just change from microsite to 'communuty supported site' and I
wouldn't find any reason to argue this personally.  :)

 I'm very much less concerned about what software we actually have.
 It's a minor issue in this, although of course, not writing software
 from scratch unless you have too seems to be a good idea. The
 important thing is that we do not try to build a big monolithic site
 that does everything again, because then this will for the third time
 stall and slowly die.
Agreed, thus note the focus and scope items of the proposal - they are
key to the success IMNSHO.

 
  * zope.org will have a paid sysadmin.  Bas van der Linden of
Amaze has volunteered the services of Wichert Akkerman,
the very talented sysadmin who currently administers
plone.org.
 
 Well, this is of course completely up to the foundation board. It's
 probably a good idea, it's just a matter of judging the benefit and
 the cost. ;-)

This paid sysadmin has been volunteered already and is being paid for by
Ras van der Linden - suppose if the foundation doesn't want to accept
that gracious offer, they could decline his offer.

 
  * Volunteers from the Zope community will be responsible for the
site's content.  The current mock-up uses a skin designed
by Tom Von Lahndorff.  I imagine that the initial text and
information architecture will come from the svn repository
of content that Andrew Sawyers and others have been working on.
See http://new.zope.nl for an initial a mock-up.  The existing
concept of membership for uploading bit-rot content will be retired.
 
 No I don't follow you. Surely product information and news will be
 uploaded and created by members? And surely that means some of it
 sooner or later will rot?

I'd like to see some other site write this software and feed it to
www.zope.org via rss or some Ajax implementation the designers come up
with.  The limited content placed directly on zope.org should be that
noted herein and other emails IMNSHO.
 
  * Existing community content on zope.org will NOT be migrated.
The content will be made available on ZC's existing server
via URL rewriting (to keep existing links from breaking) or
by moving everything to an old.zope.org domain.
 
 The old site can be moved to a old.zope.org as soon as there is a
 products.zope.org and collector.zope org and news.zope.org up.
 
   The best
content will be migrated by hand to PloneHelpCenter /
PloneSoftwareCenter products.
 
 I see no reason why product developers can't be held responsible for
 migrating their own products. Products that then are not migrated can
 be seen as abandoned and will go away when old.zope.org goes away.

The can - to that site the community steps up with or to sourceforge.
No need for it to be on the www.zope.org.  I of course prefer it if
someone in the community did it, so they could feed data to zope.org for
display.  It's about integration in my opinion - not about
consolidation.
 
  * The zope.org site should acknowledge contributors in a overt fashion.
  Zope Rock Stars who have risen up above the call of duty,
  contributors, etc should be noted.  The Foundation can determine how to
  implement this, but those paying for and providing services should
  receive acknowledgment.
 
 Yeah, good idea!
A must in my opinion.
 

Andrew

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[Zope] Improved Zope Org Proposal

2006-06-23 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Sorry for the cross-post; lets but wanted to make sure those on the
zope-web list saw this.  Lets keep this on the zope list going forward.

For sometime, we have tried to coordinate various numbers of people in
the community to get an improved Zope.org up and functional.  Some of
this improvement was through the 'visual' look and feel of the site and
the other was by cleaning up what has been often thought as
unmaintainable code as well as reducing the content scope of Zope.org.
During this time, it was largely agreed that the zope.org site would
highlight ZOPE the technology, Documentation, the products found in the
Zope Code Repository, and highlight the community, to offload features
which people had previously relied on zope.org for in the past.  The
current zope.org site would remain available for some time while a
(tedious) and manual migration of content deemed beneficial would be
placed on the new site.  To the best of my knowledge, this is still
agreed on by all those who over the months participated in countless
#zope-web irc chats and discussions on the mailing lists.

It then came to technology.  Some cared some didn't.  I personally
didn't if the result was something which the community could be proud of
and not make excuses for as they directed people to the site.  This
caused some stalling of the momentum.  We had many ideas, some text
which is in svn at codespeak, and artisitic work being done.  Geoff
Davis contacted me with a proposal which would get this move started and
has offered resources to accomplish this to finally happen.  They
currently have taken the artistic work done by Tom Von Lahndorff and put
it online at http://new.zope.nl for preview.  I'd like to forward
Geoff's proposal to the list, now that the Zope Foundation is setup to
act on this generous offer by members of the community.  I'd like to see
this get blessed so we can move forward and finally get a site which has
a focused scope and is something the community can be proud of.  I have
done some minor editorial changes to reflect discussions back and forth
since the initial offering.

A group of people in the (Plone) community have volunteered
their time and resources to put together an improved,
**interim** zope.org site.  We understand that work is
underway on a longer-term zope.org solution -- the current
initiative is not intended to replace this longer-term work;
rather, the goal is to improve upon the existing zope.org
site until something better is put together.  

I am appending a sketch of the vision and would like very much 
to hear your feedback.

Geoff



Maintenance and Administration
--
A number of people have expressed concerns about the 
maintenance of zope.org going forward.  We share those
concerns!  A central goal in setting this site up is to 
make maintenance as painless as possible.  Toward that end, 
we envision doing the following:

* The zope.org site will be set up with the same software that runs
plone.org.  The sites will have different skins, of course, and will 
  be configured a bit differently, but the underlying software will be
the same.  

* The products on the site will all be off-the-shelf 
  products that have an active community of developers.  
  The current likely candidates: PlonePAS + LDAP for 
  site management authentication, PloneHelpCenter for documentation, and
  PloneSoftwareCenter for software distribution.  For bug
  tracking, either links to the existing ZC trackers or
  a Trac installation.

* plone.org and zope.org software updates will be done at the
  same time and by the same people.  The more similar the 
  code/products are, the simpler it will be to update them in
  parallel.  

  The Plone community will manage upgrades of the off-the-
  shelf code.  However, if people decide to customize the
  code on the zope.org site, those people will then be 
  responsible for ensuring its continued functionality 
  during upgrades.  This should be discouraged without valid
requirements someone is willing to 'pay' for, either with $ or labor.

* zope.org will have a paid sysadmin.  Bas van der Linden of 
  Amaze has volunteered the services of Wichert Akkerman,
  the very talented sysadmin who currently administers
  plone.org.

* zope.org will be hosted outside of ZC's servers.  I believe
  Bas has lined up a suitable box similar to the one that
  runs plone.org (dual P4-class processors, lots of memory).

Content
---

* Volunteers from the Zope community will be responsible for the 
  site's content.  The current mock-up uses a skin designed
  by Tom Von Lahndorff.  I imagine that the initial text and
  information architecture will come from the svn repository 
  of content that Andrew Sawyers and others have been working on.
  See http://new.zope.nl for an initial a mock-up.  The existing
  concept of membership for uploading bit-rot content will be retired.

* Existing community content on zope.org will NOT be migrated

Re: [Zope] Some installation glitches

2006-04-18 Thread Andrew Sawyers
 Andrew Sawyers wrote:
 I'm running Suse 10 - and I've got both /usr/lib and /usr/lib64
 I don't believe that dependency has anything to do with  Zope.


 If I take the zope distribution tarball and do the configure, make, make
 install dance, I get a 'lib64' directory inside the Zope installation
 instead of a 'lib' directory.

 mkzopeinstance has trouble with that configuration.  It needs a 'lib'
 directory instead of a 'lib64' directory, so mkzopeinstance fails unless
 I do something, like symlinking lib64 to lib.
We run our own scripts to build out instancesthat's likely the
difference.  IIRC though, I did stumble across something like this awhile
back.

Andrew

 -Jim Washington

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Re: [Zope] Some installation glitches

2006-04-17 Thread Andrew Sawyers
I've not experienced any build problems running on 64bit machines.  I've
got a 64bit laptop and 64bit dev desktop machine, not to mention all our
production servers are 64bit as well.

Andrew Sawyers


 --On 16. April 2006 09:07:28 +0200 Jerry Westrick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 On Sunday 16 April 2006 08:27, Andreas Jung wrote:
 --On 15. April 2006 20:42:11 -0700 Dennis Allison

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  When I install Zope 2.9.0 on a 64 bit machine the path to the system
 is
 
.../Zope/lib64/python/...
 
  but with Zope 2.9.2, also on a 64-but machine the path to the system
 is
 
...Zope/lib/python/
 
  Why the change?

 Huh? Never seen that! ...and no idea where this change should come
 from.

 -aj

 I confirm,  I also have problems with building zope 2.9.2. on X86...

 Allison have you got a work around?


 Scary. Unfortunately I don't have a 64 bit machine to test it on my own.

 -aj

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Re: [Zope] Some installation glitches

2006-04-17 Thread Andrew Sawyers
I'm running Suse 10 - and I've got both /usr/lib and /usr/lib64
I don't believe that dependency has anything to do with  Zope.

Andrew
 Andrew Sawyers wrote:
 I've not experienced any build problems running on 64bit machines.  I've
 got a 64bit laptop and 64bit dev desktop machine, not to mention all our
 production servers are 64bit as well.


 I've seen the same lib/lib64 problem in Gentoo Linux on Zope 3.

 To work-around the problem, I make a symlink from lib to lib64 after
 install, and things work OK.

 -Jim Washington


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Re: [Zope] Virtual Hosting is confusing

2006-03-28 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Wed, 2006-03-29 at 00:14 +0530, Vishal Kashyap wrote:
 Andreas  ,
 
  What's the problem with using Vhosting as described in the Zope Book. The
  documentation explains how to solve the problem. If you have a problem,
  tell us about the problem.
 
 I am not able to understand that. In apache what we do is create a
 document root make sure that apache is listening on the ip on which
 virtual host is running.
 In apache I simply do is
 
 VirtualHost 19.19.19.0:80
 ServerAdmin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 DocumentRoot /www/docs/dummy-host.example.com
 ServerName dummy-host.example.com
 ErrorLog logs/dummy-host.example.com-error_log
 CustomLog logs/dummy-host.example.com-access_log common
 /VirtualHost
 
 
 What is equivalent of above in Zope.
The equivalent in Zope if you continue using apache would be a
VirtualHost with a rewrite.  For example:
VirtualHost *:80
ServerAdmin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ServerName  www.foo.com
RewriteEngine On
RewriteRule ^(.*)
http://127.0.0.1:8080/VirtualHostBase/http/www.foo.com:80/sub_ob/VirtualHostRoot/$1
 [L,P]
/VirtualHost

Where sub_ob is the zope object you wish to map the 'site' to.

You could also by pass using apache and just use the VirtualHostMonster
Mappings tab:
www.foo.com/sub_ob
www.bar.com/someother_ob


Hope this helps a bit more,
Andrew



 
 I know its given in Zope book. but could not understand that may be I
 am to much occupied with apache.
 
 --
 With Best Regards,
 Vishal Kashyap.
 http://www.vishal.net.in
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Re: [ZWeb] V3 Updated

2006-03-27 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Mon, 2006-03-27 at 08:26 +0100, Chris Withers wrote:
 Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
  Why should it be on zope.org?
  
  Um, because it's useful information about Zope, which is sort of what 
  Zope.org is about? 
 
 Well, I don't know if that _is_ what zope.org is about anymore. It's 
 been so poor for so long that people have found or created other 
 resources and those aren't going to go away even if zope.org did 
 suddenly become magically better ;-)
Zope.org shouldn't have any designs to do such.  Good projects which
have stepped up should be rewarded and encouraged.
 
  The Web Site for the Zope Community (...who are 
  currently discussing Zope at various other places on the web). Thanks 
  for visiting. :)
 
 Well, point taken, but I really think zope.org should be a gateway to 
 those existing resources. If, at a later stage, those resources want to 
 migrate back to zope.org, then great, but until then, lets leave them be...
 
I agree, they should be positioned on zope.org as prominent resources.
Zope.org should be about what's in svn.zope.org and the technology.
Excellent docs, good introductory information (i.e. marketing speak) and
downloads for those products in svn.zope.org

All, IMNSHO,
Andrew
 cheers,
 
 Chris
 

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Re: [Zope] Re: Give it a rest + answers. (Re: Re: Zope + Apache on Quad Debian machine)

2006-03-22 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Wed, 2006-03-22 at 08:24 -0500, Tres Seaver wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 
 WHile at ZC, one of the other engineers and I did some testing on SMB
 boxes, and found that one appserver per CPU gave us near linear
 scaling of the application, without any explicit affinity set.  I don't
 have the numbers (we were using stock Dell 1U dual CPU boxes, I think),
 but the win seemed clear enough that we quit invesigating taskset.
 
The other engineer was me, and it was close enough to double the load
per instance, per cpu.  If he needs to test it, the numbers are easy to
get.  Run a single instance on a SMP Server, and hit it with load. You
will get Y.  Run another instance and spread that load across both
instances and you will get nearly 2xY.  Take a single cpu server and run
1 instance and load test it, and you'll get Y.  Take that same single
cpu server and run 2 instance, and load test it across both instances,
and you'll get Y.  These tests were done on both Linux and FreeBSD and
both were approximately the same.  The conclusion was, no further
complexity is required to get a substantial performance benfit by
running SMP Servers with multiple Zeo Clients instances, where the # of
CPUS == the # of Zeo Client instances.  This has been posted to the
lists serveral times BTW.

The only snafu is to make sure you have enough RAM to run several zeo
client instances.  If you've got a 4way server, I'd recommend 16GBs of
RAM if it's a big site.  I personally like to put as much ram into a
server as it can physically handle.

Andrew Sawyers
 
 Tres.
 - --
 ===
 Tres Seaver  +1 202-558-7113  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Palladion Software   Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com
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Re: [ZWeb] Version 3

2006-03-20 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Mon, 2006-03-20 at 08:45 +0100, Michael Haubenwallner wrote:
 Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
  - What about the login + navbars ?
  
  Will add login as well. Not sure what you mean about navbars? The 
  navigation is up top, the black bar.
Maybe we don't have login on these pages; maybe use a different url for
'managing' the site:  manager.zope.org or something which adds in an
additional skin which includes these macros.  Just an idea.
  
 
 I meant the bar holding the object, folder, user, workflow and global 
 actions, currently displayed in a horizontal bar under the header/banner 
 block. You can't use zope.org (plone) without the actions.
It should be fairly trivial to work these in - remember, these types of
actions are not going to be for the general user populacethus
shouldn't be a main focus for his designs INMNSHO.

Andrew
 
 

 
 Michael
 

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Re: [ZWeb] Version 3

2006-03-20 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Sun, 2006-03-19 at 21:25 -0600, Brad Allen wrote:
   http://www.modscape.com/zope/v3

 
 The Zope News and Zope Products section do seem slightly drab.
 Drab is ok for documention but news stories could use just a
 little bit of zing.
 
The News and Products sections you see now are not going to be paramount
on the page when all is said and done.  We're trying to get some good
catchy text/phrases going for the home page which draws users into the
'meat' of the site.  A smaller presence of the news and products needs
to be considered.

Andrew
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Re: [ZWeb] Version 3

2006-03-20 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Mon, 2006-03-20 at 16:09 +0100, Michael Haubenwallner wrote:
 
 Understood and ok with me. Its just that we never talked about that 
 solution before (i've always seen the modscape mockups as a drop-in 
 replacement for the current mode of zope.org operation).
Forgot to reply all
This thought had never occurred to me, thus the divergence.  I had
always thought developmental work was to move forward the 'new' site -
never deal with the current one.  It was my opinion it was stay as is.

Andrew
 
 Michael
 

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Re: [Zope] Zope Managed Server

2006-03-14 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Depending on what performance levels you need, I've used these folks in
the past and have had excellent service from them:  aplus.net
(http://servers.aplus.net/valueservers.html) - Their $49.00/mo server
was an awesome buy for what I needed - and it's fully dedicated.  They
have higher end machines as well.  You get root, so you can do whatever
you wish. 

Andrew Sawyers

On Mon, 2006-03-13 at 22:56 +, michael nt milne wrote:
 Servelocity at 
 
 http://www.servelocity.net/
 
 are also very good. You can rent your own dedicated server and install
 what you want on it. Excellent support and service. 
 
 On 3/12/06, Allen Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 +1 for Zettai. Have had great success with them.
 If you need a place to stick a server then I highly recommend
 bayMountain. Amazing service and support. A great team of open
 source and Zope experts there.
 
 Allen
 
 
 David wrote:
  J Cameron Cooper wrote:
 
  Dan Gaibel wrote:
 
  Hello Folks,
 
  I'm interested in finding a company that will do monthly
 managed zope 
  hosting. We're looking for a dedicated machine. I know
 that Zope Corp
  does
  this and it is quite expensive. I wonder if anyone has had
 any
  experiences
  with such a service. 
 
  Any advice is highly appreciated, and I apologize if this
 list is an
  inappropriate venue to pose such a question.
 
 
 
  There are a number of these companies around. iMeme and
 Zettai come to 
  mind. I'm sure there are more nowadays.
 
  --jcc
 
 
  Dan,
 
  I use Zettai.  Can't complain at all.   Even though I use
 virtual host
  plan (I share a server with about 8(?) others) the
 performance is better 
  than I feared might be the case.
  The best of all worlds is to at least co-host your
 server.  But thats
  more over-head for the developer.  Zettai support is
 excellent.
  (although they do get cranky if you lean too much on them). 
 
  I just checked out the iMeme site - and they may be pretty
 good ( jcc
  wouldn't recommend them otherwise) but their presentation is
 gawd-awful
  and not confidence inspiring.
  David
 
 
 
 
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Re: [ZWeb] no discussions about technology on this list right now

2006-03-06 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Mon, 2006-03-06 at 16:21 +0100, Lennart Regebro wrote:
 On 3/6/06, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  It's currently not
 
 OK, super! So lets go. :-)
 There is loads of content there already, I don't think we need more to
 get started. It's already much better than what is a zope.org now.
 
 What do we do next?
Come into #zope-web if you wish to participate.

Andrew
 
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Re: [ZWeb] Zope 2 web site

2006-03-06 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Mon, 2006-03-06 at 07:06 -0800, Martin Aspeli wrote:
 
 Andrew Sawyers wrote:
  
  
  In the future, zope.org (will) migrate easily.  Before I left ZC, I went
  into the plone channel asking for assistance, and when it was learned
  the version of Plone we were on, there was little encouragement for any
  sensible migration.  That said, it doesn't matter today.  Today zope.org
  sucks and we're working to fix that.
 
 Which version was it, do you remember?
 
 
 
  zope.org shouldn't have membership - people should not be able to dump
  crap on it which can easily bit-rot.  That said, there should be a site
  for people to use as a sandbox or playground, but where the 'front site'
  for the technology comes in, it should be limited in scope to promoting
  the software, providing excellent docs, software (zope.org CVS only) and
  promoting the Zope Vision.  Anything that does not directly contribute
  to this is not necessary and should go.
  
 
 Probably sensible. That said, we've had a lot of success on plone.org by
 letting people have accounts (but no member folder) so that they can
 contribute products (plone.org/products) and documentation
 (plone.org/documentation), that goes through a light review cycle before
 being published. The Plone products that drive this also help maintain that
 documentation e.g. by letting us mark things as outdated, by marking things
 for different audiences/sections etc.
I don't think the bar should be high to contribute, but and I presume my
goal would be met by not allowing members folders.  Early on, my goal
was to reduce kruft and bit-rot content which people could throw on and
abandon.

Andrew
 
 Martin
 --
 View this message in context: 
 http://www.nabble.com/Zope-2-web-site-t1182227.html#a3263175
 Sent from the Zope - web forum at Nabble.com.
 
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Re: [ZWeb] Zope 2 web site

2006-03-06 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Mon, 2006-03-06 at 12:26 -0300, Sidnei da Silva wrote:
 On Mon, Mar 06, 2006 at 06:30:29AM -0800, Martin Aspeli wrote:
 | Not sure what this means ... were you involved in building the current site
 | or do you know its architecture? As I've said, my comments are based on what
 | I've been told by people who were involved in the original decision to use
 | Plone (pre 1.0 as I understand, with heavy internal customisations). My
 | feeling is exactly that there's no *need* for zope.org customisations that
 | would make it hard to maintain/migrate in the same way plone.org is
 | maintained and migrated right now.
 
 I made the original decision and I've put together the migration and
 all that, alone. Then I've left the project just before launch. I'm
 pretty sure it was Plone 1.0 or a 1.0 rc. Some customizations seem to
 have been made since then, but nothing serious.
The only serious thing which I found daunting the last time I was
trying to debug a problem with the software product was the HUGE
number of customized skins.  With no clue why, and the amount of effort
to sort through them all, It left me with a lot of contempt for whomever
did it and didn't fix them in CVS.

Andrew
 

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Re: [ZWeb] Zope 2 web site

2006-03-01 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Geoff,
Daily several of us (Michael, Martijn F, Phillip V, and a couple others)
utilize #zope-web to try and further work that has been going on for
awhile to get a suitable zope.org rolled out and upgraded that the
community can be proud of.  There are people working on docs, marketing
data, newsletters, layout/design upgrades and more.  Please participate
in the existing drive, not start a new one.  :)

I'd love to see ya drop by.  There's no secret that the current site
needs fixing; lets pool the collective interest and get it finished
up.

Andrew Sawyers


On Fri, 2006-02-24 at 12:09 -0500, Geoff Davis wrote:
 Hi all--
 
 I think the idea of a Zope 3 web site rewrite is a great one.  However,
 since Zope 2 is going to continue to be around for awhile, I am wondering
 if we might be able to shore up the Zope 2 resources in a reasonable way?
 
 Migrating all the community content sounds like a herculean task; I'm
 talking about doing something with rather narrower scope.  Here is what I
 propose:
 
 * Create a new zope.org (or zope2.org) for Zope 2 that is focused on 2
 things:
   1) Distribution of Zope 2 and related add-ons
   2) Documentation
 
 * Maintain all the old community content in the current instance and bind
 the two together using URL rewriting.
 
 The Plone community has developed a couple of products for distributing
 software (PloneSoftwareCenter) and for maintaining documentation
 (PloneHelpCenter).  You can see these in action at
 http://plone.org/products and http://plone.org/documentation ,
 respectively.
 
 I know that zope.org gets a lot of traffic; we also have a product for
 making Plone play nicely with Squid.
 
 I think that people in the Plone community would be willing to help out
 with getting such a site set up.  The bigger task would be moving
 community content to the new setup.
 
 Is there any interest?
 
 Geoff
 
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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Two visions

2006-02-27 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Mon, 2006-02-27 at 10:37 -0500, Jim Fulton wrote:
 I'd like to get feedback on two possible visions for the future of
 Zope 2 and Zope 3.  
 
 1) Our current vision (AFAIK) is that Zope 3 will eventually
replace Zope 2
 
- There will be lots of overlap between the Zope 2 and Zope 3
  lifetimes.  (Zope 2 might be supported more or less
  forever.)
 
- Eventually, the gap between Zope 2 and will become very small. 
  requiring a small leap.
 
In this vision, Zope 3 would have to become a lot more like
Zope 2, or we would lose features.
-1
   

 2) In an alternate vision, Zope 2 evolves to Zope 5.

 
- Zope 5 will be the application server generally known as Zope.  It
  will be backward compatible (to the same degree that Zope 2
  releases are currently backward compatible with previous Zope 2
  releases) with Zope 2.  Zope 5 will similarly be backward
  compatible with Zope 3 applications built on top of the current
  Zope 3 application server.
 
  Note that Zope 5 will leverage Zope 3 technologies to allow a
  variety of configurations, including a Zope 2-like configuration
  with implicit acquisition and through-the-web development, and a
  Zope 3-like configuration that looks a lot like the current Zope
  3 application server.  Maybe, there will be a configuration that
  allows Zope 2 and Zope 3 applications to be combined to a
  significant degree.
 
- Zope 3 will explode. :)
 
  For many people, Zope 3 is first a collection of technologies
  that can be assembled into a variety of different applications.
  It is second a Zope 2-like application server.  I think that
  these folks aren't really interested in the (Zope 2-like)
  application server.
 
  Zope 3 will continue as a project (or projects) for creating
  and refining these technologies.  
 
  (It would probably make sense for this activity to to have some
   name other than Zope.  On some level, the logical name would
   be Z (pronounced Zed :).  An argument against Z is that 
   it would be hard to google for, but Google handles such queries
   quite well and I'd expect that we'd move to the top of Google Z
   search results fairly quickly.  However, I'll leave naming
   decisions to experts. ;)
 
Advantages of this vision:
 
- Zope 2 users don't need to leave Zope 2. 
 
- Zope 3 doesn't have to reproduce all Zope 2 features.
 
- There wouldn't be confusion about 2 Zopes.
 
It is important that Zope 5 be backward compatible with both Zope 2
and Zope 3, although not necessarily in the same
configuration. Many people are building Zope 3 applications today
and they should not be penalized.
 
 Thoughts?
+2 

I personally think that one of the great things about what has come out
of Zope 3 development:  other projects can use the technologies without
taking Zope 3 lock stock and barrel.  I'd hate to see Zope 3 get more
girth and loose future traction because it had to be fully backwards
compatible with Zope 2.  For those who wish to slowly migrate to using
Zope 3 technologies without completely rewriting their software,
evolving via Five is a fair approach.  

To quote a blog I'd read earlier today:  Doing little things well is a
step towards doing big things better.

Allowing others to assist in refining the little technologies which make
up Zope 3 can achieve this goal.  I would fear this would be impossible
if the first vision was followed.

Andrew Sawyers
 
 Jim
 

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Re: [ZWeb] Zope 3 Website

2006-02-16 Thread Andrew Sawyers
That's excellent Peter!  I don't want any money, but would be cool to
find the best use for it
Talking to Christian T from the German Zope Users Group the other day,
he pointed out something interesting they were doing with available
funds:  hiring 2 'writers' who would watch the Zope and python lists and
bi-weekly (2 - ea. offsetting one another) write an in-depth article for
their site.  

I think that would be interesting possibility to do with offered funds
and maybe could be further used by the foundation when that gets
established.  

Anyhow, really just wanted to say 'thanks'.

Andrew Sawyers


On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 09:58 +1300, Peter Simmons wrote:
 Hi All,
 
 I just subscribed to both these lists (forgive the cross post) so you 
 may have gotten further down the road on this one than I have seen. I 
 have been following a conversation on Zope3-users list about setting up 
 a website and doing a little marketing push for Zope 3.
 
 I really liked the ideas in the email from Joel Moxley 
 ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) as pasted at the end in particular as I think they 
 sum up where the discussion got to. Anyway I wanted to offer some 
 funding to help get a site like that going I could offer $1000 NZD 
 (about $700 USD at present) from my company to kick this thing off.
 
 I am not sure where to go next though, Gary Poster suggested I get over 
 to the zope-web list and that the foundation would also be able to help 
 with this when it gets up and running.
 
 I noticed recently that the Plone foundation had started using a site 
 http://fundable.org to help people organise funding for projects similar 
 to this. Have a look at the site it seems like a good place to do this 
 kinda thing.
 
 Anyone got a place to point me or ideas about how to get the funding 
 into place and get this thing going?
 
 Cheers,
 Pete
 
 As I see it, Zope 3's central marketing issue is the lack of a
 coherent online identity.  There needs to be a single place that
 answers the following questions:
 
 1) What is Zope 3?
 2) Why use Zope 3?
 3) How does Zope 3 compare to competing frameworks?
 4) How do I get started?
 
 Largely, this is assembly of the Zope 3 FrontPage, philikon's first
 two chapters, and the appetizer quick start guides on worldcookery. 
 However, I would also  love to see a section on the lead developers
 answering Q1-Q3.  And this would be in conjunction with conveying...
 
 Zope3's shtick:  Zope3 is not flashy.  Zope3 does not put pastel
 colors on its website. Zope3 is the no-nonsense, industrial strength
 platform.  It's where you come when you want to do it right.  It was
 coded with the most rigorous standards by a bunch of hard-nosed sons
 of bitches who don't have time for froofy marketing  :) .  And so forth.
  This would come across in lead dev's answering Q1-Q3.
 
 And finally, the site should demonstrate the industrial strength
 quality with examples.  Little snippets from developers of SchoolTool,
 corporate users, and so forth should demonstrate hey, we're for real,
 and we don't mess around -- you give me an animated screenshots, I
 raise you a XYZ transaction per day uber site.  In a sense, we'd want
 to portray ourselves as the Chuck Norris[1] of web platforms  :) 
 
 Bottom line, a coherent online identity would go a long way.  Instead
 of doing some snazzy marketings, let's communicate the character that
 Zope3 does have.  It sounds like zope3.org under ZF might be the ideal
 way to do this,
 
 As for codenames, this is just one way we could help create a coherent
 online identity.  I certainly think release names would be fun (and
 not distracting to the central Zope 3 brand we'd want).  Overall, I
 think the time has come for communication of Zope 3 identity to move
 hand in hand with development.
 
 Joel
 
 
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Re: [Zope] Squid ESI

2006-01-30 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Yes it works; we have some stuff working here at my place of employment.
I had some problems getting the right squid build to work last year when
looking at this for a customer, but since the team here has had no
problems that I'm aware of with current builds.

Andrew
On Thu, 2006-01-26 at 19:44 +, Chris Withers wrote:
 Alan Milligan wrote:
  We haven't had any problems in building Squid-3.x images
 
 ...with ESI enabled?
 
  I've also heard of at least one other abandoned Squid3 rollout, and it's
  quite possible that without Robert's participation, Squid3 isn't really
  production strength.
 
 Yup, that and Squid 3's not production quality status makes the whole 
 Squid/ESI thing a total non-starter, which is a shame...
 
 ...but I do wish, as a result, that people would stop touting it as a 
 way to scale Zope apps.
 
 cheers,
 
 Chris
 

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Re: [Zope] Zope vs Plone: performance issues!

2006-01-24 Thread Andrew Sawyers

 standard products that probably will not help you. I'm not a speed
 guru, but load balancing with ZEO would probably be the easiest way of
 improving the performance in this case. That's my guess.
 

If he's got a dual cpu'd machine and is running two zeo instances, he's
fine unless he's got a ram problem.  To be running 2 zeo instances on
the same machine, they have to be doing some type of load balancing or
faking load balancing so that ea. zeo client can respond to requests.
One thing that might help is CRANK up your on disk zeo cache as high as
you can afford - it's just disk space.  If this hasn't been done, the
zeo clients might be spending a lot of time 'requesting' objects from
the zeo storage server when you can be caching them on the zeo clients.

Some substantial effort would likely be required to optimize the Plone
installation.  If you choose this route, look at the skins - there's
lots, lots of layers, and lots of searches going on you could eliminate
or rewrite to be more efficient.  If you go down the Zope/MySQL path,
this would require some substantial effort also.  I would recommend, if
you're going to be putting substantial effort into the application, look
at a CMF/Five implementation, relying heavily on using the View paradigm
Lennart references.  Another option, not knowing your technical level,
is to implement in Zope 3.  I personally am liking Zope 3 alot.
IIRC, there is a Zope 3 CMS project out there.

Andrew Sawyers



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Re: [ZWeb] Python.org is redesigning

2006-01-19 Thread Andrew Sawyers
That looks excellent!  

Andrew
On Thu, 2006-01-19 at 00:18 +0100, Michael Haubenwallner wrote:
 Carlos de la Guardia wrote:
 
  Have you seen http://beta.python.org/ yet? I like the using Python for...
  and written in Python boxes at the right. The design is another thing, but
  let's not go there now.
  
 
 Great link, i've been waiting for it a long time...
 
 Michael
 

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Re: [Zope] Spam-Bounces

2006-01-17 Thread Andrew Sawyers
IIRC, all of the zope mailing lists only accept mail from subscribers -
so these are likely just someone spoofing the sender address.  No reason
to try and handle this on the list server side IMNSHO.

Andrew
On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 12:37 +0100, Tino Wildenhain wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I'm getting bounces of messages sent to zope@zope.org
 with aparently large binary attachments. Luckily they
 are too big to get thru automatically.
 
 Looks like spammers are around and faking identities.
 
 Is it possible to enhance the list software to check
 gpg keys of posts?
 
 Just an idea...
 
 ++Tino
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Re: [Zope] Spam-Bounces

2006-01-17 Thread Andrew Sawyers
I'm a little confused, if that's the whole point, not sure what the
point is.  Perhaps I jumped the gun by replying :).

I guess I would setup a local procmail rule or posfix rule to not accept
mail with these attachments?  If the mail is not going through the zope
mailservers, I'm not sure how one would logically deal with this
spoofing problem?  One options is enforcing this with SPF records - we
could get Mark to set this up on the zope.org side perhaps?

Andrew

On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 15:39 +0100, Tino Wildenhain wrote:
 Andrew Sawyers schrieb:
  IIRC, all of the zope mailing lists only accept mail from subscribers -
  so these are likely just someone spoofing the sender address.  No reason
  to try and handle this on the list server side IMNSHO.
 
 Of course they are. Thats the whole point :-) On which side do you think
 it can be handled instead?

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Re: [Zope] Re: Leave the ivory tower now!

2005-12-27 Thread Andrew Sawyers

 
 
 what's needed to spruce up the howtos, or zope.org? iirc, there was a
 closed group with that mission setup some time back
 
 
 
It wasn't really 'closed' - just 'well defined'.  It fell apart, due to
both of the committed developers backing out due to commitments they
couldn't get around.  I am still highly interested in helping lead this
and actually doing work if we had 1 or 2 others who were committed.  We
also already have a designer put in some time to assist with a nicer
look and feel who is still willing to work on this.  The goal was not to
just 'spruce' things up, but rather change the focus of the site from
everything to just Zope the software, Zope Documentation, and Zope
Community.  I was just talking about this on Christmas with someone, so
there's still hope it will happen.

Andrew  Sawyers


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Re: [Zope] Re: Leave the ivory tower now!

2005-12-27 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Sun, 2005-12-25 at 10:03 +0800, Bakhtiar A Hamid wrote:

 
 The 'closed group' dissolved a while ago.
 
 
 that's sad(?)  anything came out of the group?  i think we need to do
 to zope.org what we did to zope2.  ignore and build.  leave it as
 old.zope.org and link from the new site.
 

That was the plan.  I'd like to revive the plan.  :)  Volunteers?
Andrew

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Re: [Zope-dev] zope-2.9 r40780 make install doesn't finish, files missing from bin

2005-12-21 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Wed, 2005-12-21 at 13:47 -0500, Jim Fulton wrote:

 
 I'll note, FWIW, that we don't do installs from Zope 3 checkouts.
 I think it's worth asking whether this is an important requirement.
 If it is, then we should make it work.  Question is, is it worth
 delaying the release?  I don't know.
I think it's an important requirement; many of us have done this dance
for years.  The reason I'd suspect this got done by Chris M was to ease
our pains we'd had to work around over time and make it easier for
people coming into the Zope Community - or their support staff (i.e.
Admins)  

I can't answer the last question, but it seems to apparent that it's
important and expected behavior by lots of people in the community.  

 
 If we did stay with the current situation, we'd need to cleanup the
 documentation so that a developer can easily reminder herself
 what she can do and how to do it.
If it's indeed *easy* and clear, that should be ok.  It just needs to
work sensibly  :)  So many of us are used to the ./configure; make; make
install dance.
 
 Jim
 

Andrew

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Re: [Zope-dev] zope-2.9 r40780 make install doesn't finish, files missing from bin

2005-12-21 Thread Andrew Sawyers
This has been my approach also.  Not surprisingly, many of us worked on
these processes together and have 'sanitized them' over time.  :)  There
has always been 'another side' who either hasn't liked this procedure or
the 'make' voodoo and have come up with their own, or just haven't had
to do this at all.

Andrew
 
 I really think there is not a single good reason for having a  
 different experience for checkouts vs tarballs. It would even lead to  
 major annoyance where I work right now, just to give a real life  
 example. For us, building out a development sandbox is the same  
 process as building out a production instance, and for development  
 buildouts we routinely want to just substitute checkous from a  
 different tag/branch of Zope.
 
 jens
 


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Re: [Zope] Trying zope on Linux

2005-12-15 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Allen,
Most likely your default installation installed apache to run on
startup.  You need to stop Apache.  You can try the following as root:
/sbin/service http stop
If that fails, look for apachectl - and stop the service with that.
Then pull the service from startup services.  To do that, try as root:
/sbin/chkconfig -level 2345 httpd off
I don't know how all linux varients implement the above examples.

Andrew Sawyers

On Thu, 2005-12-15 at 05:20 -0800, Allen Huang wrote:
 I'm trying zope on linux but I have come a cross a problem.
  
 I windows, I simply changed the port number from 8080 to 80
 in zope.conf  so I could get to my site without typeing the port.
  
 But in Linux, I did the same thing but it always tells me that some
 other server already occupied this port. (and I just started too, so
 there shouldn't be any server. right??)
  
 I'm now trying to figure out what server to close but with no luck at
 all.. 
  
 can someone help me so I can display my site on port 80?
 
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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Please vote about conflict errors logging

2005-12-09 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Fri, 2005-12-09 at 15:45 +0100, Florent Guillaume wrote:

 So I propose another little change: have the error_log copy to event.log be 
 the default behaviour. Today the default is off.
 
 Florent
 

+1

A

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[Zope] Job Opportunity with Revolution Health Group

2005-12-09 Thread Andrew Sawyers
I'll keep this short, since I wasn't sure of the list policy regarding
these types of posts.

Revolution Health Group is seeking python and Zope programmers for
several positions.  If anyone is interested in exiciting job
opportunities with a well funded startup; feel free to email me offlist
for more details.  General company info can be found at
www.recolution.com and Google. 

Thanks,

Andrew Sawyers
Revolution Health Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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[Zope] Re: Job Opportunity with Revolution Health Group

2005-12-09 Thread Andrew Sawyers
I apologize for this follow-on post, I typo'd the company URL and wanted
to clear that up:  www.revolution.com

No more from me on this.
Thanks,

Andrew

On Fri, 2005-12-09 at 12:11 -0500, Andrew Sawyers wrote:
 I'll keep this short, since I wasn't sure of the list policy regarding
 these types of posts.
 
 Revolution Health Group is seeking python and Zope programmers for
 several positions.  If anyone is interested in exiciting job
 opportunities with a well funded startup; feel free to email me offlist
 for more details.  General company info can be found at
 www.recolution.com and Google. 
 
 Thanks,
 
 Andrew Sawyers
 Revolution Health Group
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 

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Re: [Zope-dev] Please vote about conflict errors logging

2005-12-05 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Fri, 2005-12-02 at 23:00 +0100, Florent Guillaume wrote:
 1. Do you want these ConflictErrors retried logs to be at level:
 - INFO
INFO
 - BLATHER
 - DEBUG
 - not logged
 - other
 
 2. In addition, please specify if you feel those retried  
 ConflictErrors should have their full traceback logged?
 - Yes, with traceback
 - No, without traceback
No Traceback
 3. Finally, please tell us if the ConflictErrors that *can't* be  
 retried (and are returned to the user as an error, and are also  
 logged to the error_log) should be additionally explicitely logged to  
 the event log, and at which level:
 - ERROR
 - not logged
 - other
Error
 
 (Also, if you feel the logging should be different between 2.8 and  
 2.9, please say so.)
 
 I'll wait until Wednesday morning to collect results.
 
 Thanks,
 Florent
 
Andrew

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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] RFC: Reunite Zope 2 and Zope 3 in the source code repository

2005-11-24 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On 11/24/05 8:54 AM, Chris McDonough [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Nov 24, 2005, at 8:37 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote:
 I recall a slightly different discussion I was involved in. I
 remember Zope 2 core developers worrying about the inclusion of
 Five in Zope 2.8; they were worried they'd need to maintain its
 codebase.
 
 I was one of these people.  Since then, I've completely changed my
 mind; it was a pure win.
 
 - C

As was I.  Five has brought me and a few others I know closer to Zope 3.
This is a huge win.  Many of us have lots of experience to bring to the
benefit of the Z3 community.  As a result, I am excited to take even more
strides to Z3.  Phillips goal is a good one.  The challenge is if there is
resistance, how to smooth the bridge.  Rather then Z3 developers shoot it
down outright, they should provide reasonable alternatives (other then
doomsday scenarios).

It is a good thing to bring more developers into the Z3 community, many of
us Z2 developers are hungry for this.  I don't know the answer for every
developer on either side of this argument, but there must be an effective
compromise out there.  The two groups need to work to come to that solution
and not alienate one or the other or blindly shoot it down and hope it will
go away.  It's unreasonable to do so.

Taking my ball and heading homely,
Andrew

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RE: [Zope] Zope 2.8 or 3.1?

2005-10-26 Thread Andrew Sawyers









We use lots and lots of Centos 4.x servers
 not a problem there  go for it.



Andrew Sawyers

Zope Corporation

Zope Managed Hosting

Software Engineer













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harald Finns
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005
4:43 PM
To: zope@zope.org
Subject: [Zope] Zope 2.8 or 3.1?






I'm new to Zope, and I've been playing with 2.8.1, but
I really haven't done any real work with it yet. Now I expect to get my new
decicated Zope hardware tomorrow, so I have to decide if I should go for 2.8.4
or 3.1.0. Any tips if I should go for the latest and greatest or stick with
2.8? 

I've also seen comments that running Zope on RHEL/CentOS might not be wise. My
test env. is using FC4, but I'm planning to install CenOS 4.2 on the production
server. Unwise choice? 

Regards, 
Harald 








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RE: [Zope] Zope 2.8 or 3.1?

2005-10-26 Thread Andrew Sawyers








I meant to send a reply to the list.  The
gist of my offlist response to Harald was:

We use lots and lots of Centos 4.x
servers in heavy production with no problems.  Go for it.



Andrew Sawyers

Zope Corporation

Zope Managed Hosting

Software Engineer













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doyon, Jean-Francois
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005
4:40 PM
To: 'HaraldFinnås'; zope@zope.org
Subject: RE: [Zope] Zope 2.8 or
3.1?





I'm using Zope 2.7.x on RHEL 3.x without
trouble ... Though I should be upgrading to CentOS 4.x fairly soon ... what
problems have you heard of?



As for Zope, if you're not sure, then you
probably want 2.8.x ... 3.1 is stable, but for lower level development ... also
depends what features you need ... some CMF things aren't avilable in it yet.



J.F.









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of HaraldFinnås
Sent: October 26, 2005 4:43 PM
To: zope@zope.org
Subject: [Zope] Zope 2.8 or 3.1?


I'm new to Zope, and I've been playing with 2.8.1, but
I really haven't done any real work with it yet. Now I expect to get my new decicated
Zope hardware tomorrow, so I have to decide if I should go for 2.8.4 or 3.1.0.
Any tips if I should go for the latest and greatest or stick with 2.8?


I've also seen comments that running Zope on RHEL/CentOS might not be wise. My
test env. is using FC4, but I'm planning to install CenOS 4.2 on the production
server. Unwise choice? 

Regards, 
Harald 








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RE: [Zope] Zope scalability / efficiency question

2005-09-22 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Any load balancer should be able to do this, google for your OS there.  The
load balancer I use LVS.  See http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/ for more
details.

Andrew Sawyers
--
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Software Engineer
Zope Corporation
(540) 361-1700 

 -Original Message-
 From: Fernando Lujan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 5:35 PM
 To: Andrew Sawyers; zope@zope.org
 Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope scalability / efficiency question
 
 On 9/20/05, Andrew Sawyers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I did some tests a few years back, basically that came out such that you
 run
  the number of zope instances as you have CPUs.  I was able to get double
 the
  performance of a single instance on a dual cpu server when adding a
 second
  instance.  On a single CPU server, I found that the number of requests
 the
  server was able to render was cut by nearly 50% +/- when adding a second
  instance.
 
  My rule for building out ZEO Client servers is:
  Single CPU - Single Zope instance
  Multiple Processors - # CPUs == # of Zope instances
 
 Hi Andrew,
 
 And how can I distribute the load over these Instances, running on the
 same machine?
 
 Thanks in advance.
 
 Fernando Lujan

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RE: [Zope] Zope scalability / efficiency question

2005-09-20 Thread Andrew Sawyers
I did some tests a few years back, basically that came out such that you run
the number of zope instances as you have CPUs.  I was able to get double the
performance of a single instance on a dual cpu server when adding a second
instance.  On a single CPU server, I found that the number of requests the
server was able to render was cut by nearly 50% +/- when adding a second
instance.

My rule for building out ZEO Client servers is:
Single CPU - Single Zope instance
Multiple Processors - # CPUs == # of Zope instances

Make sure you have enough ram if you're running multiple instances.  

The number of sites you can run from a single instance without cache
problems really takes some localized knowledge of how your instances are
performing.  I run *lots* of sites from a single Zope instance without
splitting them off at the load balancer into different mini-pools.  I do
this because I can, but if I was performance challenged from, say, cache
flipping, I would definitely do this.

You could likely better off if you ran all of your sites within a single
instance (spread across multiple multi-processor machines with enough ram (2
- 4 GBs should do?)).  It's a tough question to answer with much precision
without intimate knowledge of what you're doing and how your systems are
performing.  If they're in the same zope instance, managing them as separate
entities is difficult.  Your application and maintenance of these sites
might be the best determination for how you should factor the instances
across your hardware.

Andrew Sawyers

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 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J
 Cameron Cooper
 Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 1:26 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: zope@zope.org
 Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope scalability / efficiency question
 
 mark hellewell wrote:
  Hi everyone, I've got a question I'd really appreciate some input on.
 
  If I'm running perhaps a dozen Zope sites, experiencing anywhere
  between several hits per second to a lot less, would it potentially
  be more efficient (decreased latency etc.) to run each site as its own
  Zope instance or have one Zope instance running muliple (CMF based)
  sites.
 
  I haven't even thought about adding ZEO into the mix yet.
 
  The basic aim of the exercise is to find out how many usable
  zope instances / sites I could get onto a typical mid-range
  modern server.
 
  I know it's a bit of a how long are your pieces of string sort
  of question, but any help you could offer would be gratefully
  accepted! If anyway has any experience of this sort of setup
  and can offer a little insight it might reduce the amount of
  testing I have to do myself.
 
 I don't think you'll see any improvement unless you have a
 multi-processor machine. In such a case, running X processes (where C is
 the number of cores) will fully load the machine, since Python threads
 won't skip processors.
 
 On a single-core machine, multiple instances probably will just increase
 your overhead, especially in memory. But I could be wrong: there's so
 many variables the best way to know is to test. (Caches and usage
 patters, for instance, can make a big difference.)
 
 If you do have several sites, you could be running into cache eviction
 issues since there are a lot of objects that need to be accessed. Check
 your cache fullness and watch your ZODB usage chart for excessive loads.
 
   --jcc
 --
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RE: [Zope] Zope scalabilty and problems

2005-09-01 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Sorry, 
I missed the beginning of this thread, I've got some questions that I didn't
see answered or asked:  
Did Matt indicate if he was running multiple zeo app servers?  It might help
to be spreading the load.  1, writes a day is not outrageousso it's
possible that really what you need to spread the load across a load balanced
pool of zeo app servers.  

How many users are authenticated at any given time actually using the system
for writing?  

Are you running a persistent or non-persistent cache?  If so, what size it
is?  

Check the control panel, under database management and choose your database,
then look at the activity tab.  Do you have a high volume of object loads?
What is the volume of object stores?  

There is also an in-memory zeo object cache - click the cache parameters tab
and see the number of objects in your in-memory cache.  If your zeo
client(s) have lots of ram (they definitely should), you can crank this up
as well.

What is the 'horespower' of your app server(s)?

Andrew
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Software Engineer
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 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
 Kennamore, Matthew G [NTK]
 Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:19 PM
 To: Chris McDonough
 Cc: zope@zope.org
 Subject: RE: [Zope] Zope scalabilty and problems
 
 Thanks everyone for their suggestions, bought a squid book today and I
 know what I'll be doing all weekend grin
 
  -Original Message-
 From: Chris McDonough [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:13 PM
 To:   Kennamore, Matthew G [NTK]
 Cc:   zope@zope.org
 Subject:  RE: [Zope] Zope scalabilty and problems
 
 What you've got now is a pretty reasonable setup.  Moving to 2.7.7 will
 likely not get you any free performance increases and it doesn't
 appear that there are any critical ZODB bugfixes relating to your
 problems since 2.7.3.  FWIW, also, I'd venture a guess that moving off
 Data.fs (as you mentioned in your original email) may be quite costly,
 requiring a lot of application recoding.  It also might not help solve
 the scaling problem you're having.  It's a high risk, potentially low
 reward solution.  You need something that is low-risk and potentially
 high reward, I'd suspect.
 
 Others have said this, but it bears repeating.  The biggest
 administrative win you can get for the cheapest cost is to add an HTTP
 cache (like Squid or even Apache's mod_proxy) in front of your ZEO
 clients and to cause your Zope application to set the proper response
 headers which allow the cache server to cache (and thus serve) those
 pages on subsequent requests.
 
 This can be tricky when most of your traffic is authenticated because
 there is usually very little win and a lot of danger to serving up
 cached pages when a page in the cache represents a view that a
 privileged user sees when visiting the site.  You typically don't want
 other people to see the same thing he does.  As a result, typically
 people will say pages that require authentication can't be cached
 which isn't entirely true (you can cache them but it's often useless).
 
 However, even serving up fully static content that doesn't require any
 authentication like CSS, images, and so on can be a win.  You might
 start there.
 
 HTH,
 
 - C
 
 
 On Thu, 2005-09-01 at 11:54 -0500, Kennamore, Matthew G [NTK] wrote:
  Zope version 2.7.3 (planning to goto 2.7.7 soon with ZODB 3.2.9)
  Pyhton is 2.3.4
  Apache 1.3
 
  We have 943 users as of this minute with a bout 1000 objects being
 created a day (Lots of creates)
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Chris McDonough [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 12:51 PM
  To: Kennamore, Matthew G [NTK]
  Cc: zope@zope.org
  Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope scalabilty and problems
 
  Your tranaaction blocked error messages seem to imply that either or
  both of the following is true:
 
  - some transactions are taking a long time
(any more than, say, 200 milliseconds is a long time)
 
  - you have a very high transaction volume.
 
  That said, these messages are informational rather than signifying an
  error condition.  Some transaction blockage is expected since the ZEO
  server can only deal with one transaction at a time.
 
  What version of Zope are you using?
 
  Is this an intranet application?  Are there lots of users creating
  content?  Can you venture a guess as to how many users are creating
  content vs. viewing content at any given time?  Are the users that are
  creating content logged in?  The users that are viewing content?
 
  On Wed, 2005-08-31 at 11:03 -0500, Kennamore, Matthew G [NTK] wrote:
   Here is our situation, we originally launched zope with a small user
   base in mind and like most IT implementations it got away from us
   quickly and we have over 1000 users now.  We are experiencing huge
   slowdowns and lots of complaints of performance.
  
   Let me outline our system:
  
   I 

RE: [Zope] Re: zope.org site and limited search results

2005-08-16 Thread Andrew Sawyers
I could be wrong, but I don't think zope.org uses ZSql methods for
searching..

Andrew

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 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
 Josef Meile
 Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 7:05 AM
 To: zope@zope.org
 Subject: [Zope] Re: zope.org site and limited search results
 
 Hi,
 
  few times ago I was few times wrote to ZC webmaster about limited query
 to
  Zope Products search results (see attached picture) - in any case it
 does not
  find more than 200 results. Nothing to do. If somebody has enough power
 to
  initiate zope.org webmaster, please tell him about change number of
 results
  from database at advanced tab of appropriate ZSQL method (if it is not
  defined somewhere else).
 
  Note, that old zope site does not has this limit.
 Then you may try to post a bug in the collector of the zope.org site:
 http://www.zope.org/Collectors/ZopeOrg
 
 Regards,
 Josef
 
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RE: [Zope] 2 Zope instances on a 2 CPU linux server

2005-07-28 Thread Andrew Sawyers








Run as many Zope instances as CPUs you
have if you wish to take advantage of this in Zope: i.e. 2 CPUs == 2 Zope
Instances.

You will basically double the performance
of the server with ea. CPU/Instance. At some point there might be a
diminishing return, but I doubt any of us have that kind of hardware J





Andrew





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From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pascal Peregrina
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 9:11
AM
To: 'zope@zope.org'
Subject: [Zope] 2 Zope instances
on a 2 CPU linux server







Hi,











I would like to know what if using taskset (CPU affinity
utility on linux) to bind each Zope instance to one single CPU can improve
overall performance of both instances in any way ?











As far a I know, python can not fully take advantage of 2 CPU
cause python threads are not OS threads.











Thanks.











Pascal





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RE: [Zope-dev] Problems with Zope 2.8 on FreeBSD (was Re: Problems with PageTemplates on Zope 2.8)

2005-07-01 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Did you bump up the thread stack size for the python you're running Zope
with?  This sounds like that problem.  If you search zope.org for FreeBSD -
I have a note on how I fix it.


Andrew

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 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Morten W. Petersen
 Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 7:37 PM
 To: Max M
 Cc: zope-dev@zope.org
 Subject: [Zope-dev] Problems with Zope 2.8 on FreeBSD (was Re: Problems
 with PageTemplates on Zope 2.8)
 
  I have an application called the Issue Dealer which I'm porting to Zope
  2.8.  However, whenever I try to access a PageTemplate which makes use
  of a page template macro it just hangs and consumes all available CPU.
 
  Any ideas what could be wrong here, or how I could debug it?
 
  Does the server or the client hang?
 
 It's the client that's hanging.  The first time I tested it, it was as a
 simple Zope instance.  http://instance/manage worked fine, but accessing
 an Issue Dealer instance (http://instance/stuff) didn't work.
 
 Now when I try setting up a ZEO server/client version 2.8 with python
 2.3.5 on FreeBSD 5.4, the server hangs even when I try to access
 http://instance/manage.  http://instance/manage_copyright works fine
 however.
 
 -Morten

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RE: [Zope] Generating links from a list

2005-06-27 Thread Andrew Sawyers
One way would be:

a href= tal:attributes=href python:'some_string' + opt[0]

Andrew

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 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
 John Poltorak
 Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 2:05 PM
 To: zope@zope.org
 Subject: Re: [Zope] Generating links from a list
 
 On Mon, Jun 27, 2005 at 10:03:08AM -0600, Nikko Wolf wrote:
  John Poltorak wrote:
 
   My links list consists of simple lines such as
  
   org-1,First link
   org-2,Second Link
   org-x,Another Link
  
   How do I prepend a hardcoded path to org-1 instead of what is getting
   generated?
 
   I would like to see the link for org-1 being generated as
  
   http://www.mysite.org/links/org-1
 
  Check the HREF attribute of the links in the generated HTML, and see
  what you are getting there; unrooted paths are appended (by the browser,
  not Zope) to the directory component of the source URL.
 
  For example:   A HREF=org-2Second Link/A
  in a page at:  http://mysite.org/links/org-1
  should equate to:  http://mysite.org/links/org-2
 
  [If you're still having problems, be explicit on the HREF and the URL
  you are seeing.]
 
 
  And have you tried simply replacing org-1 in the File with
  http://www.mysite.org/links/org-1; ?
 
 Just tried - and that does work, but the actual site will be changing
 before long.
 
 
  Finally -- from the ZPT snippet, it looks like links is a File object,
  yet you put it in the URL that you say you wish.  It's *sometimes* not a
  problem given Zope's sibling-acquisition when parsing paths, but could
 be.
 
 
 That's right 'links' simply contains a list of objects and descriptions as
 shown above. When a web page is displayed the objectname is prepended by
 the directory component. I assumed that Zope did that, but I guess I was
 wrong.
 
 What I really need is to change this line:-
 
 tal:attributes=href python:opt[0]
 
 to something like:-
 
 tal:attributes=href '/mysite/links/' python:opt[0]
 
 but I can't figure out how to prepend python:opt[0] with '/mysite/links/'.
 
 Any hints?
 
 
 
  G'Luck
  Nikko
 
 
 
 --
 John
 
 
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RE: [Zope-dev] Uploading Windows release 2.8b1

2005-04-28 Thread Andrew Sawyers
What happened?  Too large of a file?  I can up it for you otherwise, let me
know and I'll check into it.

Andrew

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 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Christian Theune
 Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 2:32 AM
 To: zope-dev@zope.org
 Subject: [Zope-dev] Uploading Windows release 2.8b1
 
 Hi,
 
 the upload didn't work again. If someone could put the file located at
 http://amy.gocept.com/~ctheune/Zope-2.8.0-b1-win32.exe to the right
 place?
 
 The proxy on Zope.org caught me again.
 
 Cheers,
 Christian
 
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RE: [Zope-dev] Re: Uploading Windows release 2.8b1

2005-04-28 Thread Andrew Sawyers
I just bumped this up to 20MBs.

Andrew

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 Hi Christian,
 just tried it and got an error too: 'The request or reply is too large.'
 (Upload size is more than 15MB)
 
 Michael
 
 --
 http://zope.org/Members/d2m
 http://planetzope.org
 
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Re: [Zope-dev] June Zope Bug Day: IRC correction

2004-07-27 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Chris Withers wrote:
Chris Withers wrote:
Where?
  #zope-dev on irc.zope.org

That should probably be irc.freenode.net.
irc.zope.org is just a cname pointing to irc.freenode.net
Andrew
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Re: [Zope-dev] zope-dev list policies

2004-06-24 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote:
+1 for member-only posting
On Wed, 2004-06-16 at 22:24, Tim Peters wrote:
 

Over on the zope and zope-dev lists, there's currently agitation to make
them members-only mailing lists.  The point is that spam could not get thru
then (unless posted by a member).
What would zodb-dev members like?
[...]
   

+1
I propose this policy extends to all ZC managed community lists.
Andrew Sawyers
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[Zope-dev] test: ignore

2004-06-24 Thread Andrew Sawyers
test
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Re: [Zope.Com Geeks] Re: [Zope-dev] zope-dev list policies

2004-06-24 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Ken Manheimer wrote:
I noticed this when it went initially went by, but didn't have time to 
follow up.  The upshot is that there is absolutely no way *under the 
current arrangement* that this is going to happen.  I can see a way to 
swing it, requiring earnest volunteer effort.  Here are the details.

Being the administrator of many of the zope lists (probably over ten 
and below twenty), i am already dismayed by the challenge of the 
typically thirty to one hundred held spam messages, bounces, and other 
effluvia i have to handle *per day*.  I do not know how many of the 
legitimate list messages would additionally be held and require more 
attention (with the current mailman implementation, it takes a lot 
more fuss to approve a held message than to discard it), but the load 
is already untenable, so one more is too many.

Why would we hold non-member postings for review?  Why not simply 
outright reject them?
Andrew

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Re: [Zope.Com Geeks] Re: [Zope-dev] zope-dev list policies

2004-06-24 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Ken Manheimer wrote:
What proportion of the list traffic comes from valid members who are 
posting from alternate accounts?
A huge percentage was - I don't know how much is making it through to 
the lists though.  I'm hearing a lot of complaints from people either 
third party, seeing it in IRC or from emails off the lists.

I've recently added an increased amount of header and body checks which 
were not being applied yesterday as well as increased spam reject 
features.  This should help - in any event now that it's being blocked 
at the MTA, Mailman's load on the server has went from 2 -3 to ~.5 on 
the server in the last hour.
Andrew

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004, Andrew Sawyers wrote:
Ken Manheimer wrote:
I noticed this when it went initially went by, but didn't have time 
to follow up.  The upshot is that there is absolutely no way *under 
the current arrangement* that this is going to happen.  I can see a 
way to swing it, requiring earnest volunteer effort.  Here are the 
details.

Being the administrator of many of the zope lists (probably over ten 
and below twenty), i am already dismayed by the challenge of the 
typically thirty to one hundred held spam messages, bounces, and 
other effluvia i have to handle *per day*.  I do not know how many 
of the legitimate list messages would additionally be held and 
require more attention (with the current mailman implementation, it 
takes a lot more fuss to approve a held message than to discard it), 
but the load is already untenable, so one more is too many.

Why would we hold non-member postings for review?  Why not simply 
outright reject them?


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Re: [Zope.Com Geeks] Re: [Zope-dev] zope-dev list policies

2004-06-24 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Ken Manheimer wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004, Andrew Sawyers wrote:
Ken Manheimer wrote:
What proportion of the list traffic comes from valid members who are 
posting from alternate accounts?

A huge percentage was - I don't know how much is making it through to 
the lists though.  I'm hearing a lot of complaints from people either 
third party, seeing it in IRC or from emails off the lists.

I've recently added an increased amount of header and body checks 
which were not being applied yesterday as well as increased spam 
reject features.  This should help - in any event now that it's being 
blocked at the MTA, Mailman's load on the server has went from 2 -3 
to ~.5 on the server in the last hour.
Andrew

Huh?  I was specifically talking about the legitimate postings, valid 
members who are posting from alternate accounts, sounds like you're 
talking about spam.

Yeah, I was.  Misunderstood.  Others will have to answer this for 
themselves.  I've said my peace - so that's enough for me.
Andrew

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[Zope-dev] Zope Lists

2004-06-23 Thread Andrew Sawyers
The zope.org lists have been migrated to new hardware.   The lists and 
archives are updated as of  ~10 minutes prior to the DNS switch; so I 
expect them to be as current as I could get.  I've heard of people 
getting resubscribed to lists which they had recently unsubscribed 
from.  Since the old system was not being managed by us, I do not have 
any details as to what/why that might have happened, so if you find 
youself resubscribed now we appologize.  This should not continue to 
happen and if anyone experiences further problems please let us know ASAP.
Thank You,
Andrew Sawyers

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[Zope-dev] zope.org/cvs.zope.org/svn.zope.org server move

2004-06-10 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Dear Zope Community Members,
Excuse the cross post, but this announcement is important to all.
This coming Thursday, 06.17.2004 we will be moving the the zope.org 
website, cvs and svn services to new hardware at our Northern Va. data 
center.  Effective 5:00pm EST the creation of accounts on the zope.org 
website and logging in to the zope.org website will be disabled to 
ensure that up to date data is migrated onto the new servers.  We expect 
this move to take ~1 to 2 hours to complete.  The zope.org TTL and 
secondary refresh times have been updated to 1 hour.  The afternoon of 
the move, these times will be reduced down to 15 minutes in preparation 
for a smooth DNS change over when the migration is complete.  Ken I'm 
evil, so don't mess with me Manheimer will be handling the CVS/SVN 
migration and will provide more details on the expected outages early 
next week.  If anyone has questions, feel free to let us know.
Thanks,
Andrew Sawyers

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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope and zope

2004-04-14 Thread Andrew Sawyers
Jim Fulton wrote:

The first question is:

Is it a problem to have two packages with names differing only in case?

+1

A response with a positive sign (e.g. +1, +0, +2, ...) indicates
agreement that this is a probelm. :)
Jim

Andrew

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Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-dev] Using 2.3.2 for Zope 2.7

2003-10-03 Thread Andrew Sawyers
I don't know about 'blessing', but I'm using it on a project currently 
(Python 2.3 and Zope 2.6.2) without glitches.
Andrew

Toby Dickenson wrote:

On Friday 03 October 2003 15:33, Chris McDonough wrote:
 

Jim is keen to get an audit going quickly before a 2.7
final release, and the audit would be performed against Python 2.3.2.
   

Does anyone else have an interest in blessing Zope 2.6.x with Python 2.2/2.3 ?



 



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