Re: [Zope] Re: deprecated products? 2 more... +rant

2007-10-17 Thread Jason Cunliffe

LocalFS
ZopeShortCut
both very nice, useful   work with 2.9.x, 2.10.x
..
Zope.org is a scary sad stupid mess, BUT yes it's also full of useful stuff
But oh boy its some tlc and some web2.0 commonsense interface friendliness

Like add a form so people can flag and comment notes and version 
goodness and trouble

METADATA for fucksakes..
Then one could actually sort and search for products in more useful, 
less time consuming random way.

But then it would'nt be zope if you did'nt need hope right

Things that would be really useful to know:

list/sort/search products by
-- last date product was updated
[then you could narrow to only within 1 year . If no good or some 
special need, widen the timerange.]


-- number of downloads  this could be very useful indicator of 
aliviness or currrent validity


-- abandonned  lots of products say that they are discontinued. Good 
to know.
But if only that info were stored as metadata flag [with date of 
announcment], imagine ow uch easier it would be.


-- Plone dependencies  == packages needing some version of plone
-- Zope 3 dependencies == products using Zope 3
-- now hosted elseware -- many are mainatained elsewere with newer 
versions etc
-- dead link  WHY is it so hard for noble prize winning dynamic Zope 
to track a dead url, and save one all that extra hassle ???


Jason

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[Zope] How to use Zope2 products in Zope3 ?

2007-10-09 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hello

I have some Zope2 products  I want to use in Zope3. First up these:

-- LocalFS
-- ZopeShortcut
-- SWFFile

Confused by changes... I can't find any 'Products' or 'Import' folders 
in my Zope3 instance...
Does this mean all those good products have to be rewritten using some 
new super-complexificated Zope3  syntax?

I hope not. What am I missing please..?

Thanks for any advice
Jason
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Re: [Zope] How to use Zope2 products in Zope3 ?

2007-10-09 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Martijn Pieters wrote:

On 10/9/07, Jason Cunliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Confused by changes... I can't find any 'Products' or 'Import' folders
  

in my Zope3 instance...
Does this mean all those good products have to be rewritten using some
new super-complexificated Zope3  syntax?
I hope not. What am I missing please..?



I am afraid that you are correct. Zope 3 does not support Zope 2
products. Instead, Zope 2 is using more and more Zope 3 tech and
products get rewritten over time, gradually.
  

ah ok thanks..

so how in Z3 does one do the equivalent of
-- DTMLMethod
-- PythonScript
-- ExternalMethod
??

I'm just looking for some ways to do some very light script programming 
in Zope3 via ftp from UltraEdit or directly using ZMI  in a browser.
For example I have ''randomImage',  a tiny Zope2 PythonScript to display 
random images in whichever folder it is called from.

Beautiful example of what Zope does really well.

from random import choice
imagelink = str(choice( context.objectValues(['Image']) ))
#return imagelink
print 'htmltitlerandomImage... /titlebody %s /body/html' % 
imagelink

print '/html'
return printed
-
Please how/where do I this in Zope3 ?
What is the vehicle?
ZPT ?
What ever happened to 'PythonScripts' and those nice 'External Methods'?
I read how Zope 3 was/is supposed to be be *more* pythonic [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Most of my client interfaces will be done in Flash [Actionscript3.0]. I 
want Zope to remain *invisible* and stick to server-side tasks, with 
Flash as the visible graphical face.
As much  as  possible client-side logic, design, presentation, 
typography, media, and interface programming -- all that belongs on the 
client. AJAX is now very popular for this reason also.
For my purposes, Flash is really perfect for this, except for one small 
problem- lacks of basic communication between embedded SWF file and the 
browser.
Good news = is there is now a very nice solution which opens the gates 
for powerful easy Zope-Flash interoperability: SWFAddress

http://www.asual.com/swfaddress/


 SWFAddress - Deep linking for Flash


SWFAddress is a small script that sits on top of SWFObject 
http://blog.deconcept.com/swfobject/ and provides deep linking for 
Flash websites and applications. In other words it enables the Back, 
Forward and Reload buttons of the browser and creates unique URLs with 
page titles that can be sent over email or IM. SWFAddress uses the 
ExternalInterface functionality introduced in Flash Player 8 and comes 
with a technique that enables search engine indexing for deep Flash links.

demo
http://www.asual.com/swfaddress/samples/flash/


With SWFAddress installed and Zope scripts such as 'randomImage' it 
means that one can write/craft standalone user interface components in 
Flash or Flex AS3.0 - complied as .swf files.
A gallery image display widget for example can now be built to load 
images using  URL call http://somesite.com/images/randomImage
The beauty is the famous separation - logic, design, content. In this 
example there is no need to change the flash file. It can be freely 
copied and used in different places in different sites. But the 
parameters for the URL can also be passed in from javascript/html 
interface or transparently implicitly via the Zope programming lying 
behind its ubercool object path logic = 
http://somesite.com/images/randomImage


So I'm trying to get to grips with the *simplest* possible use of Zope3 
--  later I'll grapple with writing components etc if I need them

hope this makes sense
thanks for any help

Jason

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Re: [Zope] How to use Zope2 products in Zope3 ?

2007-10-09 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Andreas Jung wrote:


so how in Z3 does one do the equivalent of
-- DTMLMethod


There is also DTML support in Zope 3 but why do you need DTML???

Maybe I don't need it... but there are lots of DTML examples out there, 
plus I have some things already working on Zope2 installation here. I'm 
in test/review/compare/learn cycle at the moment.
Was hoping for some fast copy'n'paste between  versions. My main  effort 
will be in the userclient AS3.0 dev.. On the Zope side it's more about 
organizinng minimal pieces. IF I knew how, I'd love to write theentire 
ZMI in Flash. AS3.0 in Flex especially has great data binding. For 
example cool drag'n'drop trees with lovely E4X  syntax for XML.


The site tree admin in ZMI could be as nice to use as the live flex 
examples in this drag'n'drop tree component article shows:

tutorial
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/quickstart/working_with_tree/
source
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/quickstart/working_with_tree/src/TreeDragTo/index.html

Going further one can use AIR and have drag'n'drop access on the desktop
Interfacing that to Zope3 would make the basis for a superb CMSWikiLog++


 AIR-to-Desktop Drag-and-Drop: Two Simple Utility Classes
 
http://coenraets.org/blog/2007/06/air-to-desktop-drag-and-drop-two-simple-utility-classes/

http://coenraets.org/blog/2007/06/air-to-desktop-drag-and-drop-two-simple-utility-classes/
download demo
http://coenraets.org/downloads/dragdrop.air


-- PythonScript
-- ExternalMethod


Write a browser view.


ok thanks..
So now I'm googling for How to write a Zope3 browser view?
Wondering has anyone done this already.. seems like it must be basic to 
using Zope3

lots more to learn
Any suggestions where best to learn how to do this?
Has anyone written a glossary for Zope 3 concepts  terminology for Zope 
2 users?


Jason
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[Zope] Zope 3 Cookbook beta.. model?

2007-10-09 Thread Jason Cunliffe

*Zop 3 cookbook beta.. as clear and accessible as this page:

http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/communityengine/index.cfm?event=homepageproductId=2

rollover posted list headings displays 1 paragraph Problem/Solution 
summaries

*
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[Zope] Zope 3 editors?

2007-10-09 Thread Jason Cunliffe

What do you recommend as code completion tool for learning/writing Zope3 ?

... is there anything like this nice Javascript developer tool?

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/jseclipse/
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/jseclipse/videos/
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/jseclipse/videos/codecompletion/

thanks,
Jason



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Re: [Zope-dev] Professional Sites Using Zope??

2001-05-16 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Thanks for the news...

Brad Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I have another site I can't tell you the URL for, its for an
importer-exporter handling 600
 packages per day (shipping, tracking, customs, etc) His customers (100 or
so) and their
 staff (200 or so) login to track packages every day.

Can't tell as in don't know or not permitted?

This increases my ongoiing suspicion that Zope is #1 secret weapon [webpon?]
for many. Arguably, The most 'professional' zope sites almost uniformly do
not appear to be listed, dicsussed, promoted or cerdit Zope either.

See posts from a while back about the radio stations and others listed at:
http://www.zopezen.org/links

in particular cbs new york and its merry clones:

http://cbsnewyork.com/
http://1010wins.com/
http://www.krockradio.com
http://www.wcbs880.com
http://www.wcbsfm.com
http://www.wfan.com

..lots of other 'professional' Zope sites to consider, for example at a
random what do you call these two

http://ddi.cs.uni-dortmund.de/
http://www.rosettaproject.org:8080/live


./Jason
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[Zope] basic dtml syntax question

2001-01-30 Thread Jason Cunliffe

example: img src="dtml-absolute_url;"
 ^
 ^
 ^
 ?

Please can anyone explain why dtml... syntax has a semi-colon ; at the
end?

What is for?
Why is necessary? etc
How to use/abuse it?

thanks

 Jason




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Re: [Zope] Editors [OT]

2001-01-25 Thread Jason Cunliffe

check out HTML-Kit
http://www.chami.com/html-kit/#features

- Jason
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- Original Message -
From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tres Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 5:08 AM
Subject: [Zope] Editors [OT]


 Tres Seaver wrote:
 
  I'm liking it a lot -- the last reason to even consider using
  emacs is gone :)

 Hmmm... interesting, maybe it's time to find a new editor...

 My wishlist would be:

 - Runs nicely on NT4
 - Syntax highlighting for Python, C, XML, HTML (and, although this is
dreamworld
 stuff, DTML ;-)
 - FTP or WebDAV editing built in as standard (or alternative solution,
like
 cadaver making it work ;-)
 - Regular Expression search  replace
 - search  replace of multiple files

 and my dream list would be:

 - can run multiple copies of the editor at once
 - class browser for python, with expand/collapse of code (like the editor
for
 Python 2)

 Any ideas?



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Re: [Zope] ZClasses and title property

2001-01-19 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hi Tim,

I _think_ the problem may be that your choice of property is unlucky,
because 'title' is already defined by default in Zope.
Try changing it to something else and test. For example: 'timtitle'

In 2.3b1 you can go to the built in Help System by selecting 'Zope Quick
Start' + 'GO' [use the management top HTML frame]
Then use seerch for title and see what comes up... a long list since as you
will see.

Hope this helps. Welcome to wide, deep, free land of Zope ...and good luck!

- Jason
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- Original Message -
From: Tim Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 5:58 PM
Subject: [Zope] ZClasses and "title" property


 Let me start by introducing myself...My name is Tim Moore and I'm new
 to the list and Zope in general.  I'm still figuring out how
 everything works, so forgive me if I'm missing something basic here
 :-)

 I'm creating several ZClasses for the site I'm working on.  In one of
 them I'd like to have a property called "title", but when I try to add
 it, I get the following error:

 Error Type: Bad Request
 Error Value: The id "title" is invalid--it is already in use.

 I'm confused, because this seems to happen even when I make a
 bare-bones minimal class, but a few of the examples I've found on the
 web site have ZClasses with title properties.

 I'm using version 2.3b1...is this a recent change in behavior or am I
 doing something wrong?  If this is a change, does this mean I have to
 use a different property name, or is there some other way I can edit
 this title property?




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[Zope] ZAlert = 2.3b1 and ZBook out-of-sync ?

2001-01-19 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hello

I like the revised Zope 2.3b management interface. Big improvement and step
in healthy UI direction. Thanks!

..I notice however, that the illustrations in the online version of the book
are now visually 'out of sync' with the new Zope software.
It may be trivial [non functional] matter and very tedious to fix, but is
surely worth considering..

For example:

The screen shot in Chapter 2
http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/UsingZope.html

does not display the actual interface in 2.3b1
etc etc ..

What to do?
Will this be fixed in the printed book?
Is it too late?
Does anyone care?
Does anyone have the time to update these?
Am I getting too carried away?

It would be a real shame to release the O'Reilly Book and immediately
confuse people running 2.3, who I believe the book is your target audience.
I believe it would also be a strategic mistake to release the book too soon
without making SURE it is as in-sync as possible for an obviously wider
audience.

Let's assume that 2001, as the [Asian] year of the Snake, is also the year
of Pyhon and [imo] the year of Zope. I estimate the Zope User population
will at least double during the next 12 months, probably triple. I also
expect serious Zope sites to catch on as Zopistas really start to apply
their knowledge. Plus I think that Zope will catch on in both business and
community [low-budget] applications.

The ORA Zope book will become #1 reading for all newcomers and version 2.3++
will be where they begin their journey. They won't know or care about the
'ZPython thingy' debates [a great name] or lots of other stuff. They will
care if the screen shots are all wrong and if there is no attempt to address
this problem. Of course they won't realize till they get home..

best wishes
- Jason
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[Zope] ZPOP Popularity Property ?

2001-01-16 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hello

I want to add a property to folders, documents and certain objects called
'popularity'.
Can anyone offer some Zope advice how I might achieve the following:

1. Maintain an updated count of hits to those objects storing the number of
hits, or preferrably an some offfset processed version of that number in
'popularity'. The processed value could take into account when and where the
hits came from.

2. Search through folders and subfolders, checking objects 'popularity'
value, and then return ordered lists to display of most/least popular.
Preferably these lists would be Python dictionaries, and could be stored
externally using BerkeleyStorageDB or similar so as not to extend the ZODB
uneccesarily with small transaction data.



This is inspired in part by a cool interface idea at:
http://rhizome.org/starrynight/

quote
Description
When a new text is read for the first time on the Rhizome website, it
appears on StarryNight as a dim star.

Each time a text gets read again-by any Internet user around the world-the
corresponding star gets a bit brighter. Over time, the page comes to
resemble a starry night sky, with bright stars corresponding to the most
popular texts in the database, and dim stars corresponding to less-popular
ones.

Dragging the mouse over one of the stars brings up a pop-up list of keywords
that the corresponding text shares with other texts. Select a keyword in the
pop-up list to draw a constellation linking all the stars that share that
keyword.
/quote

I have other plans how to 'render' the popularity results, including as
boring but very useful XHMTL tables, using Zwiff [Zope Flash product based
on Ming. see http://www.zope.org/Members/sspickle/Zwiff/]

Thanks

- Jason
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Re: [Zope] IEMethod (was: Can Zope ... )

2001-01-09 Thread Jason Cunliffe

 Try searching for "Internet Explorer" in Software release search.

http://www.zope.org/Members/johanc/ZIE/ZIE-demo


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Re: [Zope] IEMethod (was: Can Zope ... )

2001-01-09 Thread Jason Cunliffe

 Try searching for "Internet Explorer" in Software release search.

also

http://www.zope.org/Members/johanc/ZIE/xmlrpc_client


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Re: [Zope] IEMethod (was: Can Zope ... )

2001-01-09 Thread Jason Cunliffe

 I give up, what and where is IEMethod? Zope.org search turns up nothing.

The Wiki for ZIE = 'The Zope Internet Explorer Editor Project' is

http://www.zope.org/Members/johanc/ZIE/wiki/FrontPage


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[Zope-dev] ZDESIGN IDEAS = How to improve 'manage' ?

2001-01-08 Thread Jason Cunliffe
r criteria listed here. For example only show me the objects
modified since last week by USER 'really nice client' :-)

How easy hard is the above to do?
Has it already bee done?
What techniques/components exists already to make it happen?
What need to be developed?
How does this affect Zope core?
What woudl you like to see when you click on manage?
What would you lceints liek to see?

- Jason
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[Zope] ZDESIGN IDEAS = How to improve 'manage' ?

2001-01-08 Thread Jason Cunliffe
r criteria listed here. For example only show me the objects
modified since last week by USER 'really nice client' :-)

How easy hard is the above to do?
Has it already bee done?
What techniques/components exists already to make it happen?
What need to be developed?
How does this affect Zope core?
What woudl you like to see when you click on manage?
What would you lceints liek to see?

- Jason
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Re: [Zope] zope on Win95

2001-01-05 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Nando

This should be what you are looking for:

http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope/2.2.4/Zope-2.2.4-win32-x86.exe/view

I have been running Zope on Win95 and Win98 on laptops for learning,
development and off-line site demsontration very happily for a long time.

You don't 'execute dtml files' ... Zope uses them for many purposes as
server-side scripts which are rendered and returned as ordinary HTML in the
client web browser. DTML files can combine Zope-specific syntax, Python
sytnax, Javascript stuff, CSS etc.

Learning how to design for Zope, factoring the application, when and where
to use the many tools and techniques - it takes time and practice to do
well. But it is possible to get simple but impressive results very fast.

DTML can be called within other DTML, Python or directly in a URL from a web
browser.
For example: http://www.myzopesite.com/invent
'invent' might be one of many things including:
- a DTML Document or Method
- some other script or method typically programmed in Python and accessible
to Zope
- a Zope other object in the ZODB [Zope Object Data Base]
- a Zope 'folder' which appears as a hierarchical file system tree of
containers for Zope applications, projects and data


1. See the online version of the new Zope Book
http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/
This will be published very soon by O'Reilly

2. Run through the tutuorials which are included when you download Zope.

3. See many more guides, how-to's etc are linked from
http://www.zope.org/Documentation

Good luck!

- Jason
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- Original Message -
From: nando n [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 2:16 PM
Subject: [Zope] zope on Win95



 where can i download (exact url) binary version
 of zope to install it on my win95 system?
 for now i've only been able to download python
 source code version of zope.
 how do i execute dtml files?

 i just want to know that. thanks



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Re: [Zope-dev] PartitionedFileStorage - Eek!

2001-01-02 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Now BerkeleyStorage is on its way and once that's ready,
 PartitionedFileStorage will have such a small audience that it won't be
 worth the trouble.  Oh well, it was a fun experiment.

Can you pleae expand on this.. what about BerkeleyStorage is on its way and
when ?

Been using it for soem tests and like it very much, sincerely hoping it
might get rolled into Zope and Python before long.


thanks

- Jason
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Re: [Zope] Re: Z-Commerce components

2000-12-31 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hi Brad

Delighted to hear that Wampum and Zope work well for you.
I just took a quick look at your site - very nice.

However it seems very slow to load even a simple page and when I tried to
but something the Checkout pages came up with broken icons :-(

Am I unlucky or do you have a problem?

thanks

- Jason
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From: Brad Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Do you know is anyone _using_ Wampum :
 
  a. For handling real transactions, or is it still in development stages
?

 We are using it for real transactions at http://www.adirondackcraft.com
 (RH Linux 7)

 So far has worked perfectly.

 We created our own shopping cart and checkout stuff.



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[Zope] Re: Z-Commerce components

2000-12-28 Thread Jason Cunliffe

 The Wampum Generator is available at:
 
  http://www.zope.org/Members/ngarcia/WampumGenerator
 

Thanks!

Do you know is anyone _using_ Wampum :

a. For handling real transactions, or is it still in development stages ?

b. With Etailer's Zope kit?

- Jason 
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[Zope] Z-Commerce components

2000-12-27 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hi

Looking for an e-commerce tool to use for a Zope-based site for artists to
share, display and sell 'net art' and more. Also to allow sponsors to do
just that.

Thus it will not typically have huge throughput traffic like a commercial
site selling books or whatever, but on the other hand, must work smoothly
enough to allow ticket sales for small concerts/events etc. The more
artists/musicians/venues can use i, the lieklyier all will succeed.

1. What do you recommend for taking credit card purchases online with Zope?

2. Does Zope even have anything to do with this this part of the design
problem?

Thanks for any comments

- Jason
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Re: [Zope] Reality check PYZOMA = python / zope for Mac ?

2000-12-23 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Steve

Thanks very much for this encouraging news.
Indeed if it runs well, Zope could be important enough app for for soem
people to upgrade to MacOSX.

If one needs to install Zope __now__ on non-MacOSX machines, what is the
story?

cheers
- Jason
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Steve Spicklemire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Have you seen:   http://www.zope.org/Members/sspickle/MacOSXBHFS

 Zope-2.3a1 runs with Python-1.5.2. I've run Zope-2.2.x on MacOSX
 and it runs great. At some point someone with time, or a paying customer,
...[snip mySQL commercial/non-commercial prospects]


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Re: [Zope] Reality check PYZOMA = python / zope for Mac ?

2000-12-22 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Dieter Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   Is the mac getting left behind or will the new MacOSX in fact bring
Python
   adn Zope more easily into the fold?
 MacOSX is almost Unix.

 It should be easy to create Python and Zope on it.

That's good news, assuming that Mac owners uniformly adopt MacOSX.
I would love to here from anyone interested who has MacOSX and would be
willing to test this out.

Does anyone know what Apple's plans are for MacOSX introduction to broad
mass market.?
Will it be the default AppleOS by end of 2001?

I imagine though that most existing Mac users, artists, etc, especially long
term users will not be in much of a hurry to upgrade at all unless they are
technology freaks or have compelling new tools to benefit from.

This makes me suspect there  will be a large current Mac User population
likely to be left behind by as we go into the next year with Python 2.x++
and Zope 2.3x++ being the modern versions.

Will Zope 2.3x run on Python 1.5.2 - yes/no/maybe/sometimes/depends?

My concern is because I want to install an integrated application using Zope
+ [Python] + Browser + Flash5 and I want it to run on Mac, Win32, Linux
[etc]. Local ZServer + Flash5 offering peer-peer + smart-client features
which can work offline and online adn be easy for desktop drag and drop for
group site creation and management. Local Zope is a key part of this
strategy - I have been recently discussing Zope based project with some
artists, and was reminded about how many creative people only use Macs, thus
the ZMac question.

Thanks

- Jason
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[Zope] Reality check PYZOMA = python / zope for Mac ?

2000-12-21 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hello

I am wondering what the prospects are for Python and Zope on Macintosh:

Is the mac getting left behind or will the new MacOSX in fact bring Python
adn Zope more easily into the fold?

I am quite concerned that projects planned for Python and Zope will not be
in fact be usable on Macs.. What are the realistic prospects during the next
6-12 months do you think?

Does anybody even care anymore?

Thanks for any opinions and links.. brief searching for Python and has been
a frustrating and confusing experience


- Jason
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Re: [Zope] quick python book - question about the feedback form example

2000-12-09 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Lee

I'm no expert, but I thought all Python Scripts [Methods] in Zope need to
include 'self' as the first argument.

Thus you should try instead

"""feedback.py: A simple feedback form application"""
def save_feedback(self, feedback_type, comments):
etc..

among others do check out the ZDP  FAQ at
http://zdp.zope.org/projects/zfaq/faq/ExternalMethods#952541309

and also the new Zope Book Chapter 8
http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/ScriptingZope.html
[See section about External Python halfway down, but beware the new change
in terminology from 'Python Methods' to 'Python Scripts' - slightly out of
sync with the Quick Python Book]

good luck
- Jason
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- Original Message -
From: Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 - I then create a python method called 'feedback.py' containing the
 following:

 feedback.py
 --
 """feedback.py: A simple feedback form application"""
 def save_feedback(feedback_type, comments):
 """ A function to handle submitted feedback form data"""
 # Open a file for appending to save the feedback
 # creating the file if necessary
 try: file=open("feedback_data", "a")
 except IOError:
 file=open("feedback_data", "w")
 # Save the data
 file.write("Feedback type: %s\n" % feedback_type)
 file.write("Comments: %s\n\n % comments)
 file.close()
 return "Thankyou for your feedback!"



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[Zope] methodist revival meeting

2000-12-07 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Surely this should be corrected: ??

--

http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/Preface.html

Chapter 8: Advanced Zope Scripting
This chapter covers scripting Zope with Python and Perl. In it we cover how
to write business logic in Zope using more powerful tools than DTML. It
discusses the idea of methods in Zope, and focuses on Python and Perl
methods. This chapter shows you how to add industrial-strength scripting to
your site.

--

best wishes
- Jason
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Re: [Zope] FTP in HTML-Kit? Sussed it!

2000-12-05 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Paul

Thanks for your notes, especially the  "open as text" tip.

Very fast and easy.
HTML-Kit Preview is very useful too for changing forms in Zope.

Now if only someone would create an HTML-Kit library Zope extension complete
with all essential DTML and pythonisms for auto tag completion

- Jason
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- Original Message -
From: Paul Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 8:04 AM
Subject: RE: [Zope] FTP in HTML-Kit? Sussed it!

 1. Go Workspace - Add FTP Server/Folder - Add FTP Server.
Do the obvious (all familiar to Homesite users).
A blue coloured ftp source will appear in the File pane
on the RHS. Expand/collapse trees to navigate to the
file you want to open.

 2. Right-click and "Open As Text". Haven't yet fathomed
the significance of this as opposed to other options.
What I do know is that "Save" then does the business -
saves it back to your FTP source.




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Re: [Zope] FTP in HTML-Kit? Sussed it!

2000-12-05 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Yes interesting + thanks again.
Also there is radio button in "Edit | Preferences | Workspace"

'Transfer mode' = use text mode to transfer files with extensions

and then a long list:

al;asa;asc;asp;aspc;aspx;bas;bat;c;c++;cat;cc;cfm;cfml;cgi;cnf;conf;cpp;cs;c
ss;css1;css2;css3;csv;cxx;dcl;decl;dtd;dtml;el;ent;etx;f90;h;h++;hh;hkh;hks;
hpd;hpp;htaccess;htm;html;htt;htx;hxx;inc;inf;ini;inl;iss;j;jav;java;javascr
ipt;js;jscript;l;latex;lcd;lisp;log;lsp;m;pas;pc;perl;php;php2;php3;php4;php
5;php6;pht;phtml;pl;pl3;pl4;pl5;pl6;pl7;pll;plx;pm;py;rtf;rtx;scm;shtm;shtml
;soc;sql;stm;sys;tex;text;tsv;txt;vb;vbs;xml;xsd

so I addeddtml;  not sure what side efect there but seems to
be ok :-)

- Jason
_______
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From: Stefan H. Holek [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Zope] FTP in HTML-Kit? Sussed it!

 I found an option in "Edit | Preferences | Workspace" named
 "Ignore file type when opening/inserting"

 It may have (yet undetected) side effects, but doubleclicking
 index_html now does what I would expect it to... ;)



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[Zope] Re: [Zope-ZEO] Zope 2.2.4 ZEO 0.4.1 (latest anyway) doesn't want to add Products

2000-12-04 Thread Jason Cunliffe

 Shane Hathaway wrote:

  Bill Anderson wrote:
On a related note, has anyone successfully made a mounted ZEOStorage
thingum yet (mounted FileStorage for ZEO).
 
  The Wikis folder on zope.org is now a ZEO mount.  We have chosen to use
  the ExternalMount product we created internally.  It calls an external
  method to open the storage and create the database.  It has the
  flexibility advantages we need; for example it lets you move a .fs file
  from non-ZEO to ZEO and back without going through a long recataloging
  process.
 
  Anyone interested in it?
 
  Shane

 Yes please.

We are also interested. =+ 'Yes Please'

- Jason
_
Jason Cunliffe = Nomadics['Zmaps'].design




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Re: [Zope] PythonScripts and ExternalMethods

2000-12-04 Thread Jason Cunliffe

From: Evan Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Jim and I expect to make External Methods obsolete, rather
 than upgrading them.  In the near future, you will be able
 to get most of the functionality of External Methods from
 Python Scripts' import capability.  In the longer term, we
 expect Zope 3 to completely change the way you write Zope
 code.

 In the meantime, External Methods work pretty well.

This is very interesting ..

Does this mean typically Python Exterbal Method code will be moved inside of
Python Scripts, then modified and the ralted DTML simplified and/or
eliminated?

Hopefully Python Scripts will then be much more straightforward and any
needed 'power' modules are accessed via import.

I would like to hear more about how you envisage the actual workflow would
happen.
For example making changes to scripts - debugging - updating etc.

How Zope import export may work in realtionship to this.
say, bundling a folder of Python Scripts in.zexp file?

How you imagine it working with ZEO setups when one needs to bounce scripts
around and how script namespace will be handled..?

- Jason
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Re: [Zope] Running Zope == ZopeVirgins

2000-12-03 Thread Jason Cunliffe

I hope Norm LaDuke does take a breath and follow the advise others have
given.

But his post does in fact seem to be a common first-time experience. So I
would like to suggest a sensible super-newbie-oriented adjustment to _all_
future Zope installations:

At installation Zope system should create a default user called 'tutorial'
or 'guest' or 'first-time' or something.

Upon launching Zope the first time after installation, user 'tutorial' would
immediately be logged in automatically and routed to the tutuorial istelf,
where the first page advises him/her to create a personal user 'Id' and
password for any further real-world use of Zope. This page should also
include a form right there to do this.


- Jason

 - Original Message -
 From: "Norm LaDuke" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 1:17 AM
 Subject: [Zope] Running Zope


 | Can anyone out there tell me why anyone would use a product whose
tutorial
 won't
 | even run.  You guys are either INFINITELY more patient than I or you all
 have
 | WAY too much time on your hands.  I'm about 7 hours into this thing and
we
 do
 | finally have zope up and running but of course the tutorial doesn't
work.
 | Requires you to put in an ID then blows up and goes no further.What
a
 piece
 | of garbage  (Does my frustration show??)



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Re: [Zope] ZopeWeaver?

2000-11-29 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hello

Thanks for all the comments so far on this topic. Hope to hear more.

I have been looking this morning gain at the Extending Dreamweaver docs.
[on Win32 its typically at
C:\Program Files\Macromedia\Dreamweaver 3\Extending\ExtendingHelp.htm ]

It seems to me that by using the XML-based TAGSPEC, and then the Dreamweaver
Javascript DOM, it should be possible to open index_html or anything.dtml in
a fully controlled manner. It looks like this can avoid any dependancy on
Win32.

SOME EXAMPLES:

DWfile.read()
The following code reads the file mydata.txt and, if successful, displays an
alert box with the contents of the file.

 var fileURL = "file:///c|/temp/mydata.txt";
var str = DWfile.read( fileURL);
if (str){
  alert( fileURL + " contains: " + str);
}

..

In Dreamweaver 3, extensions are no longer limited to working within the
local file system. Dreamweaver now provides a mechansim for getting
information from and sending information to a web server via hypertext
transfer protocol (HTTP). This chapter describes the HTTP API and how to use
it.


MMHttp.getFile()
The following code gets an HTML file, saves all the files in the
Configuration/Temp folder, and then opens the local copy of the HTML file in
a browser:

 var httpReply =
MMHttp.getFile("http://www.dreamcentral.com/people/profiles/scott.html",
false);
if (httpReply.statusCode == 200){
  var saveLoc = httpReply.data;
  dw.browseDocument(saveLoc);




There's lots more, but these seem like the 2 essential ones [+ their
.write() counterparts]



The potential advantages I see for Zope are:

- PROFILE
[improving Zope's general visibility and acceptance for new projects] Having
a set of Zope Dreamweaver Extensions in itself would help promote it.

- WORKFLOW
[making Zopesite development with Dreaweaver much friendlier for
designers/programmers etc.]

- DESIGN
[ better integration with Macromedia's graphic toolset will make it easier
to for professional designers to develop more professional looing ZopeSites]

- FEATURES
[There are many features available now in Dreamweaver3+ which can be
leveraged to prototype and build higher level Zope templates design and
interface]


So my questions are what Javascript 'ZopeWeaver' extensions would you really
like to see?

- Jason
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[Zope] ZopeWeaver?

2000-11-28 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hello

I am looking for realworld workflow tips on using Dreamweaver with Zope.
There was a speculativ thread about this some time ago, when UltraDev was
being pumped..

There are now all manner of Dreamweaver extensions, both trivial and
sophisticated.
http://www.macromedia.com/exchange/dreamweaver/
[check out the various categories listed in the 'browse extensions' dropdown
menu near top of page]

I would love to hear from anyone has been using Dreamweaver with Zope
[recently]..
How you organize your tasks between Dreamwever features and Zope features,
etc?

:Have you and problems with site upload from Dreamweaver into ZServer?
:Use of Tables to implement zopesite design changes.
:Not losing DTML tags..
:handling DTML
:managing files locally and their relationship to ZODB

thanks
- Jason
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Re: [Zope] Python Script demo site

2000-11-23 Thread Jason Cunliffe



 "Evan Simpson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  A few announcements.  First, in the interests of sanity and
  getting things moving, I'm choosing the only name other than
  "Python Method" to get a positive score in the naming poll.

 For the sake of future votes: did you actually hold a second poll ?
 Last I heard was a call for name candidates, which I thought would be
 the basis for a poll.

Yes ..but the Florida supreme court overruled that late yesterady afternoon
;-)

- Jason


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Re: [Zope] Objection to Python Script Name

2000-11-23 Thread Jason Cunliffe

- Original Message -
From: Stefan H. Holek [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On Thu, 23 Nov 2000, Chris Withers wrote:
 I had already made my point when the last poll was taking place.
 Renaming the XY Methods will break all documentation, how-tos, snippets,
 whatever. After all the traffic the mismatch of the ZB and non-CVS Python
 Methods has created, I really do not want to even imagine the flood of
 "My system does not have XY Methods" posts.

Stefan, Yes this is still a good point..

But pragmatically, it seems like 'Python Scripts' is now President [unless
major riots, appeals and insurgency follow..]

However, I hope to god that Someone

1. Will put post some clear glossary-dictionary explanation or translation
tables at zope.org to help Zope newbies and others relate the terminology of
'Python Scripts' vs. 'XY Methods' etc.

2. Fixes the OReilly book in some sensible manner - add highly legible note
on Page 1, update the index in useful manner to catch the differences.

3. Will explain to me 100% clearly what difference there is now between a
regular Python script and a 'Python Script' in Zope?

Thanks
- Jason

[who though 'Python ZMethods' was good]




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Re: [Zope] Python Zope Method as option for renamed Python Method?

2000-11-08 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hamish Lawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote


 In the poll currently underway on renaming options for Python Methods,
 the most popular choice so far is to leave the name as it is. It could
 just be because people don't see enough benefit in changing what's
 already there, but I think it may be that people actively feel that the
 term 'method' captures some technical essence. However, we still have
 the problem of disambiguating between a method in Zope's eyes and a
 method in the implementation language. How about calling anything that
 Zope regards as a method a Zope Method? That would then give us Python
 Zope Method, Perl Zope Method, DTML Zope Method, SQL Zope Method, etc.
 Is it too late to add the option for Python Zope Method to the poll?

YES. I agree this makes a _lot_ of sense.

It also means in any forms or menu popup boxlist, the most important
distinguishing words will be shown first:

Python Zope Method
Perl Zope Method
SQL Zope Method
DTML Zope Method
Rebol Zope Method
Java Zope Method
VB Zope Method
Custom Zope Mthod
etc..


- Jason


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Re: [Zope] ZMethod (Safe)

2000-11-08 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Evan Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
  Safe and Flexible are probably more meaningful words there ;-)
 
  ZMethod is growing though ;-)

 We've pretty much settled on restricted/unrestricted here.  In honor of
the presidential Indecision
 2000 race, we're seriously thinking about revamping and rerunning the
poll, so ZMethod may well get
 its moment in the spotlight.

lol

Good news: 'ZMethod' is nice and 'sounds' good, however one says it.

'safe' / 'flexible' imho=nice ideam but a little too subjective, not
informative enough

'restricted' / 'unrestricted'

hmm.. better because more functional, but how about:


1. 'closed' / 'open'

2. 'builtin' / 'custom'

3. 'local' / 'custom'

4. 'client-side' /  'server-side'

???

- Jason




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Re: [Zope] XML-RPC

2000-11-08 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hello

I am missing the start of this thread, so I may be off topic, but you might
want to look seriously at Flash5 for the client side programming and
graphics.

PROS:

1. Flash5 ActionScript is _very_ close to JavaScript

2. Flash Player/Plugin is much smaller than SVG 300Kb vs. 13Mb I think +
large user installed base.

3. Flash5 has new XML and XMLSockets objects which should integrate nicely
with XMLRPC and Zope via some smooth Python external method programming.

4. Flash will allow _much_ more client side interactivity than SVG

5. You can port SVG graphics to Flash using various tools [or even write
your own].

6. You can still use SVG JavaScript and do some comparisons where
appropriate...

7. Flash is more mature than SVG, though I agree SVG is developing very
well. I expect we shall see some serious applications during next 12 months
with it.

8. Flash is very object-oriented once you grok to its design. Thus mirrors
Zope very well.

CONS:

A. Flash has steepish learning curve, but high payback and reusability.
[Not as tough as Zope :-) ]
B. SVG is fully open; the Flash spec is 'published' but not open in the same
way.
C. must be more but cant thing of them right now

If you are interested contact me - I have lots of useful research on this
topic.

- Jason

___
Jason Cunliffe = Nomadics['Interactive Art+Technology']


 - Original Message -
 From: "Hannu Krosing" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: "David Nimmons" [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 | David Nimmons wrote:
 | 
 |  I am trying to develop a web based interface to automation equipment
 (Allen
 |  Bradley plc's in this case) to use for an operator interface. I am
using
 |  SVG to develop graphics and want to use javascript to manipulate the
 |  graphics based on data from the plc. I am looking for a way to pull
more
 |  data from the server without having to reload the page. My question is
 will
 |  XML-RPC allow this. Or does Zope have some other mechanism that would
 allow
 |  this. Thanks for any help.
 |
 | Actually this is mainly a client-side problem, on server side you have
 | total
 | freedom to serve any protocol ;)
 |
 | Often this kind of problem is solved by having twho frames and data is
 | aquired
 | by reloading the "data-page" which then manipulates the
 | "presentation-page"
 | using javascript, possibly in its onLoad method.



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Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-11-01 Thread Jason Cunliffe

- Original Message -
From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  Not yet. I think that O'Reilly doesn't want us to produce any more
  public versions of the book until it is published. I'm double checking
  with them right now. Take a look at the copyright verbage on each book
  page to see what I'm talking about.

 Kinda tough to check out/read/find mistakes in a book that's only
 available as a set of html pages that aren't full text searchable

This is a really good point.

Just as open source benefits from real-time peer review, so do manuscripts
get better when fresh eyes and minds and go over them.

How about 'releasing' a PDF / HTML Doc with header/footers clearly marked:
'Preview Review copy for Copy-Editing use only. Not for general public or
commercial distribution'

The number of people who are likely to 'bootleg' the Zope book must be tiny.
Most will want to see the book sales thrive, so that Zope grows and gets the
wider recognition it deserves.And to save time and money when developing
Zope projects.
For such sophisticated 'free' software, a well written, well edited book is
a trivial price to pay.

The issue is how to get the best final copy to the printer in timely manner.
Peer review now by skilled expert readers is huge advantage to be tapped. No
matter how good OReilly are as publishers, I doubt they have many Zope
experts in-house at ORA... Because there are not yet that many in the world!

Most people are too busy anyway to be of much help. Anyone who wants to help
adn has the ability to do so should be engaged now not deterred. Everyone
will benefit if you act quickly now. Final stages of proofreading and
tweaking are time consuming adn take many hands and many heads to get right.
When done thoroughly this is the difference which makes a difference,
especially for technical books. Look at how much hideous fast junk is out
there in bookstores now. Look at how many books are a waste of paper and
time and money, simply because they were not properly checked and tuned.

good luck and best wishes
- Jason



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Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-11-01 Thread Jason Cunliffe

- Original Message -
From: Michel Pelletier [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  Just as open source benefits from real-time peer review, so do
manuscripts
  get better when fresh eyes and minds and go over them.
 
  How about 'releasing' a PDF / HTML Doc with header/footers clearly
marked:
  'Preview Review copy for Copy-Editing use only. Not for general public
or
  commercial distribution'

 This is a good idea and probably a good compromise, but this would
 require us taking the time to negotiate it with O'Reilly and engineer a
 stx-pdf converter and pre-empt alot of work we have lined up for the
 book and other documentation efforts.  With the existing setup, we don't
 have to worry about this for a couple months and we don't have to stir
 the shit with O'Reilly.

This is truly nuts...
Sounds a like you guys are tired and just want it done and printed now.

So please just let us know whom we should contact directly at OReilly.

This really is not 'stiring the shit'.
Publishing staff are always over worked especially copy-editors. They will
appreciate some timely comments, from some [free] Zope experts to help them
get their work done quicker and better.

Hell, they can even use it on the blurb to help sell the book and get some
nice 'OpenSource reaches the Book Publishing World'-type reviews !!

I find it hard to believe given the significant role OReilly have in
openSource, Python etc that they would not be happy to embrace a __tiny__
experiment in this direction.


  The issue is how to get the best final copy to the printer in timely
manner.

 Well... from your perspective (and ours) but from O'Reilly's I think
 they're woried about *who* the first person to print that best final
 copy is.  Those are the people they are worried about bootlegging the
 book, not you, they _know_ you'll buy a copy.  ;) If we open content it
 now, someone could beat ORA to the shelves by a week and undercut a
 sizable percentage of sales and all they would ahve to do is put ORAs
 name on the cover, but they don't get any money.

 I feel your pain on all issues.  A couple more months and this will all
 go away.

A couple of months from now is exactly when the pain will be felt!
You open the book and go ooops! damn how'd we miss that one..?

Then the reviews come and say "Been really looking forwards to this
milestone book for a long time. It is well written by two members of the
core Zope team but unfortunately"

Please don't confuse controlled easy accesss for willing proofreaders, with
public licensing and e-distribution models. Those CAN be sorted out later.

Just as employees and freelancers working for Publishers have access to
manuscripts, so should and can designated members of the Zope community.
These are not annonymous strangers.

I have been reading and printing out various chapters of the book from
http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/ over the past month. Then saved out a
bunch of the HTML files and printed to PDF. Took 'em round the corner for
cheap fast b+ printout and had comb binding put on then. It was worth the
$15 for print+binding just to be able to scan on planes and while I was
travelling.  It already gave me a much better feeling and understnding of
Zope :-)

- Jason
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Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-10-31 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hello

Congratulations on getting the book to this stage!!

It is very readable and I hope it is well promoted, and well received.

One obvious presentation improvement I suggest is that you make ALL zope
code references in the same typographic style.

For example throughout most of the text you sensibly have DTML and Python
examples in courier or equivalent.

But in the Appendices, for example
http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/AppendixA.html under sections marked
'Attributes', there is not a clear consistent distinction:

encode=string
MIME Content-Transfer-Encoding header, defaults to base64. Valid encoding
options include base64, quoted-printable, uuencode, x-uuencode, uue, x-uue,
and 7bit. If the encode attribute is set to 7bit no encoding is done on the
block and the data is assumed to be in a valid MIME format.

"encode=string" should display in courier also like all examples.
And if possible put one extra line space after each Attribute description
before the next entry. Thought this takes up a little more space, it is
white space well used adn really helps one to find and absorb this crucial
content better.

An editorial suggestion I would make is that in the Appendices, MORE
examples would be BETTER and clearer definitions and examples of the
attributes arguments would really help too. Even a single one or two-line
example after each 'Attributes section would be a godsend. I imagine there
are lots of juicy examples in the archives.

For example check sendmail,
mailhost ="mailhostnamegoeshere"

Also there is no mention about the sendmail quirkiness of formatting,
needing space after the subject: line

This is a FAQ and surely belongs in the appendix of the only Zope book.
Are there others?

In general for the Appendices, please check that explicitly it is clear and
consistent when and if anything is returned,  and when and how arguments are
needed.
You all know, and take all this for granted no doubt, but others truly
don't.
The API aspect is one that holds so many people back and so many questions
about real-world use. Copious well placed examples go a long way.

I know how hard it is use to make a book and how many endless fiddly
time-consuming tasks there are. But it really is worth getting this right. I
work for 10 years in the design and production side of book publishing.

Ditto the index.
I hope you push to make sure your editorial team at OReilly are really
behind you on helping to produce a great index and will sweat all the
details and typographic minutiae which do matter so much when you hold the
final result.

A classic example is 'Lingo in a Nutshell' [ORA] which has very detailed
examples and excellent tables and appendices, but was marred by a cheap fast
shallow index. It was author Bruce Epstein's painful learning curve. It is
still the definitive LINGO book, but widely criticized for lack of serious
index. Bruce later added stuff online and vowed to fix it in the next
edition. As I recall from his post to the Direct-L mailing list, he said
that he had not been personally very involved in the index, and as an
exhausted and tired new author, he had not reckoned on what could go wrong,
nor how important the index is to a static printed paper book. Very
different from the dynamic online world where a few searches on google or
wherever will get a handy reference, backed up by a  post to
xyz-mailinglist.

Best wishes

- Jason

____
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Re: [Zope] Fw: PythonLabs Team Moves to Digital Creations

2000-10-30 Thread Jason Cunliffe

- Original Message -
From: Andy McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 Now I have to know, whats a "Jam Session"?

I assume 'jam' session = creative improvisation based on experience and
talent,
as in Jazz.. Miles Davis, Thelonius Monk, John Coltrane, Louis Armstrong..

- Jason


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Re: [Zope] WebDAV's not really the problem...

2000-09-29 Thread Jason Cunliffe

 Yes, your fears are valid, but WebDAV really isn't the problem. Zope, at
 a deeper level, is what is causing your problem.
 You can find out the above information using any web browser, try this:

 http://www.cbsnewyork.com/objectIds

 I see they haven't deleted the QuickStart. Interesting... As you point
 out, once you know the names of methods and the like (see
 http://www.cbsnewyork.com/objectValues to find out what type objects
[--8--snip]
 It's a hard problem to solve, made harder by the fact that Zope supports
 loads of protocols and is totally manageable through the web. These are
 Zope's strengths, but they do raise interesting problems :-S

This reveals a fascinating double-edged sword.
It also makes for a very good way to explore what Zope really is and does.

It would be cool if someone could set up a small Zopesite pro-actively, to
demonsrte and explain this stuff better.

Also me think that the security issues coul be addressed by having
securebot DTMLmtehod which could go through the site, sniffing out stuff fed
it by a template page and assigning come other role or settign preoperties
to allow stronger filtering of requests on a folder scale. Maybe this is
impossible due the reverse- peverse catch-22 nature of 'acquisition'.

But surely one could use acqusition to insitute an even higher level method
which would check any requests say which do not come from that local or
specified IP/domain ?

any thoughts?

- Jason


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Re: [Zope] Should I use ZODB or not ?

2000-09-20 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Dieter

Thanks for your answer and advice..

   I am curious how do you all think LocalFS would perform for such a big
   multimedia application.?
   http://www.zope.org/Members/jfarr/Products/LocalFS
 In my view, LocalFS is an excellent product. I like it very much.

 However, I would not upload and not serve objects with a size
 of several hundred megabytes through ZServer (and thereby through
 Zope).
 As I said in an earlier response, ZServer is at least on
 order of magnitude slower with static content than
 Apache. This matters, if you transfer big objects!

OK, sorry to be so dense about this, but when you say "through ZServer"
..please clarify for me on thing:

Does LocalFS actually go "through ZServer" ?
I thought that all it does, is to make a virtual link, storing a pointer in
the ZODB to the real physical file system.
Upload thus via FTP would be as fast as could be, and download could be
defined if you prefer FTP or HTTP.
Does'nt the link in LocalFS work the same in both directions, merely storing
the linkn in XODB adn pass the location to the protocol?

 Recently, there has been some simple benchmarks for
 Zope versus Apache performance in this list.
 Search the archive (there is a searchable one at NIP)
 to get a feeling about the bandwidth.

 You may well use LocalFS to view the metadata (id, size, modification
time,
 ...) from Zope, but you should not go through ZServer for upload
 and HTTP requests to really large objects.

Again I dont understand.
With LocalFS, isn't the "really large object" outside of Zope.
Surely it does not care how big the file is?
All it cares about is its location, and any extra metadata IF you choose to
store it in Zope.
yes / no?

thanks
- Jason



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[Zope] How best to restart Zope?

2000-09-19 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hello

Q: How to make sure Zope restarts automatically it is shut down ?

Zope version: Zope 2.2.0 (binary release, python 1.5.2, linux2-x86) 
Python version: 1.5.2 (#10, Dec 6 1999, 12:16:27) [GCC 2.7.2.3] 
Linux2.2.5-15 RedHat6.0 (Hedwig)

any ideas?

tia
- Jason


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[Zope] sendmail

2000-09-19 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hello

Trying to automate some sendmail messages
but we keep getting

Error Type: error
Error Value: host not found

Traceback (innermost last):
  File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 222, in
publish_module
  File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 187, in publish
  File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line 221, in
zpublisher_exception_hook
(Object: ApplicationDefaultPermissions)
  File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 171, in publish
  File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/ZPublisher/mapply.py, line 160, in mapply
(Object: sendmail_test)
  File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 112, in
call_object
(Object: sendmail_test)
  File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/OFS/DTMLMethod.py, line 167, in __call__
(Object: sendmail_test)
  File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/DT_String.py, line 502, in
__call__
(Object: sendmail_test)
  File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/Products/MailHost/SendMailTag.py, line 188, in
render
(Object: dolphinsMailHost)
  File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/Products/MailHost/MailHost.py, line 220, in
send
(Object: dolphinsMailHost)
  File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python1.5/smtplib.py, line 452, in sendmail
  File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python1.5/smtplib.py, line 303, in ehlo
error: (see above)

Any clues to what is wrng here?

tia
- Jason

Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director



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Re: [Zope] sendmail

2000-09-19 Thread Jason Cunliffe

- Original Message -
From: J. Atwood [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 It looks like the email address you are sending (testing) to is not valid.

 "host not found"

That can't be right. I have tried with a couple of known working email
address.
..But I notice the Python error points first to /lib/python1.5/ and then
/lib/python

What up? Is this 'normal' for Zope 2.2.x?

File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/Products/MailHost/MailHost.py, line 220, in send
(Object: dolphinsMailHost)
File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python1.5/smtplib.py, line 452, in sendmail
File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python1.5/smtplib.py, line 303, in ehlo

Thanks
Jason

 At 7:10 AM -0400 9/19/2000, Jason Cunliffe wrote:
 Hello
 
 Trying to automate some sendmail messages
 but we keep getting
 
 Error Type: error
 Error Value: host not found
 
 Traceback (innermost last):
File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 222, in
 publish_module
File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 187, in
publish
File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line 221, in
 zpublisher_exception_hook
  (Object: ApplicationDefaultPermissions)
File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 171, in
publish
File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/ZPublisher/mapply.py, line 160, in mapply
  (Object: sendmail_test)
File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 112, in
 call_object
  (Object: sendmail_test)
File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/OFS/DTMLMethod.py, line 167, in __call__
  (Object: sendmail_test)
File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/DT_String.py, line 502,
in
 __call__
  (Object: sendmail_test)
File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/Products/MailHost/SendMailTag.py, line
188, in
 render
  (Object: dolphinsMailHost)
File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python/Products/MailHost/MailHost.py, line 220,
in
 send
  (Object: dolphinsMailHost)
File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python1.5/smtplib.py, line 452, in sendmail
File /Zope-2.2.0/lib/python1.5/smtplib.py, line 303, in ehlo
 error: (see above)
 
 Any clues to what is wrng here?
 
 tia
 - Jason



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Re: [Zope] Should I use ZODB or not ?

2000-09-19 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hello

I am curious how do you all think LocalFS would perform for such a big
multimedia application.?
http://www.zope.org/Members/jfarr/Products/LocalFS

Use Zope for managing meta-data, or mayeb even better Zope + a fast DB tool
for the metadata part.
Let Zope do its holy best for the 'virtual-object interfacing' jobs, let the
others do their thing..

My understanding was that using the LocalFS is as fast as you can get really
and that any file size limits are to do with the OS, disks RAM, caching etc,
not Zope or anything else. Plus one is free to scale or mix and match zope
with other tools and systems, as it develops without compromising all the
work which has gone into  the base data's filestructure. Might be much
easier to develop too..

The data would not be locked into Zope or for that matter any RDBMS
'solution'. One coud performance tests, develop optimizations and determin
along the way when and where to apply them.
No headaches as Zope goes through upgrades either because one is not taxing
it too much.

Can anyone see what are the faults with this approach?

I have been wondering about such what plan to use and if or with Zope for
large animated map datasets project. This would  use Flash SWF, and also SVG
[XMLbased Scalable Vector Graphics]
The SWF can be merged into Quicktime allowing for multiple tracks.

This is a powerful combinatoin where one needs to package trainging,
presentation. Video though big contains a huge amount of 'information' which
is lost in all other infromation system: body language, human language, tone
of voice, inflexion, accent, emphasis, mood, lighting, context, scale,
enviromnental conditions. etc.

- Jason


Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director

- Original Message -
From: Dieter Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jerome Alet [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Zope] Should I use ZODB or not ?


 Jerome Alet writes:
   Our needs are to store hundreds, and possibly thousands of MPEG2 and
MPEG4
   (generally short) video movies, MP3 audio files, JPEG images, etc...
  
   Altough most of the files will be in the 1 Mb - 10 Mb range, some
could
   be larger, e.g. some Gigabytes.
  
   For each file we also want to keep some data: author, subject,
encoding,
   description, keywords, domain, etc...
  
   I see 5 solutions:
  
   1 - store both files and their associated datas in ZODB
   2 - store files in the filesystem and datas in ZODB
   3 - store files in the filesystem and datas in an RDBMS
   (use Zope only for the presentation of files and datas)
   4 - store files in ZODB and datas in an RDBMS.
   5 - don't use Zope at all because it's not appropriate.

 Do not store the files in Zope or serve them with Zope.
 A standard web server (e.g. Apache) is at least one order
 of magnitude faster than Zope for static content (such as
 multi media files). This is essential for you
 large file objects.

 If you have up to a few thousand objects and they do not change too
 often, you can put them (the meta data) into the ZODB.
 Otherwise, put them in a RDBMS.
 I would use the RDBMS whenever I have one or I have more than
 a few hundred objects or I would need access to the data
 from legacy processes, too.


 Dieter

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[Zope] Permissions logic and redirecting failed logins cleanly

2000-09-14 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hello

We have folder on our site with a list of links to restricted pages and
downloadable binary objects.

1. 'Anonymous' can view the index_html of the top level folder for this part
of the site.

I did this by selecting 'Security' tab of my Zope folder, and then
deselected the 'Aquire permissions' boxes for
'View' and 'Access Content Information'
I then added 'View'  permsission manually for role 'Anonymous'

I did the same for 'index_html' but also manually added 'Access Contents
Information' permission for role 'Anonymous'

Everything works fine. Anyone can read about it an see the links to objects
below this point, but clicking on them or typing in direct URL will open a
{user, password}login dialogue box. Good.

Now if people do not enter a valid login, after a few tries it bounces as
you would expect to a Zope error screen. This is nice when you expect it,
but inexperienced users are confused or think the site is 'broken' when in
fact it is working.

What we need is to redirect 'Anonymous' users [or indeed anyone] to another
page if their login fails. For example:
...
"The item your tried to access is restricted and requires member login
blahblahblah.
Contact mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] with your request

click [HERE] to return


How to detect and redirect to a page like this?

Thanks for any suggestions
- Jason

Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director



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[Zope] Adding a new property over http

2000-09-14 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hello

I asked this in longer form before, but it fell by the way I think..

How to add a property to a containing folder.
Looking for DTML or External Method way to do this.

We need a Method to to add a new folder property assigning an 'Id' =
somename adn 'type' = 'tokens'.
We need to be able to do this by passing the variable somename over http.

thanks
- Jason

Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director



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[Zope] img tag dtml question

2000-09-13 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hello

Can anyone see why under 2.2.0 this is wrong ?


/images [folder]
7Dlogoicon_gif  [gif image file object]

/deliverables/standard_html_footer [DTMLmethod]

dtml-with /images
a href = /deliverables
  dtml-var "7Dlogoicon_gif.tag(border = 0)"
/a
/dtml-with
/body
/html

This worked many times before ok under 2.1.6  on another site with similar
technique.

But now I am getting
 invalid syntax, for tag dtml-var "7Dlogoicon_gif.tag(border=0)", on
line 3 of standard_html_footer

When I try removing the outer quotes  dtml-var 7Dlogoicon_gif.tag(border =
0)
 Document Template Parse Error
 invalid parameter: " = 0)", for tag dtml-var 7Dlogoicon_gif.tag(border
= 0), on line 3 of standard_html_footer

Simply, I need to make sure that every document I put in '/deliverables' can
have a localized standard HTML footer
with an icon which will link users back up to /deliverables.
The icon needs to have a 'border = 0' attribute.


help much appreciated
thanks

- Jason
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Re: [Zope] Looking for Zope vs. Others at-a-glance comparison

2000-09-11 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Ron

yes +thanks for paying keen attention here..

  What Manila has done is to provide some reasonable default templates for
  getting useful site development work done 'out of the box' - they have
  provided a structure template, and well defined access to changing the
  obvious things people want to change.

 I see.  Having higher level drop-in Web sites, IMO, is a job for add-on
Zope
 products that could be created by DC or the community to meet various
needs
 (as in Squishdot like projects).  As the Zope community grows, I have no
 doubt that more add-on products for "Web sites in a can" will pop up.


Exactly.
My concern is to get the right kind of discussion going because it is going
to need some differnt kinds of minds to work together.

 I can only guess that most Zope users are either not designers or are so
 filled with awe over its power that they forget to put effort into beauty.
 :-)  I think Zope lends itself more to the programmer and content provider
 types, and leaves the designer with nothing special to desire.  I don't
say
 that in a bad way, but Zope isn't a design tool, so designers have no
 special interest in learning to use it.  As Zope makes its way into more
 businesses with design teams, pretty design will make its way into more
Zope
 sites.

Problem is am not sure Zopie will make its way into more businesses wiht
design teams if it is such a pain in the $# to get sites sketched out.

A really valuable  feature which Zope could offer is Site-Sketching
You do the back of napkin whiteboard 'design' of the main site architecture
hierharchy functioning. Now you need to map it out in 'dummy' mode so
everyone can get to work playing with it and working on the bits they are
all best at.
You know you are going to make changes and so you want to benfit from object
abstraction from the get go
You know in house team and design [visual + code] will force changes not to
mention clients..
Then start throwing database at it - look and feel vs. satabase search
menchaisms etc. This can be expensive time consumign stuff.. things people
need to apply samrt reusable components to.. but which also allow them to
get down very fingraoned and adjust = zope
I think there is a big demand for this kind of up and running toolset.

A zope folder full images or navigation widgets or search form elements are
the type of things yu want to do a single copy paste or import on.

I am a designer who has a special interest in learning to use.
I do not see many other tools with this potential, but in its present state
and my present programming skills, I am still a little short of being able
to take Zope where I see it can go on my own. I hope this changes soon..


 My understanding is that DC has been putting so much of their resources
into
 the Zope core, much needed documentation, and probably their consulting
 business, that their own Web site has been left with a lower priority.  I
 don't fault them for that.  I think they've done a great job at
 prioritizing.

Granted.
The price is right and there is some hairy stuff under the hood.
I just hope DC can step back a bit more from time to time to see where they
fit in from other perspectives also.
I realize their income comes from consulting.
They could apply their expertise [or others] to package off useful stuff for
a reasonable price.
Zope products coudl be very cost efefctive all around - those with teh time
and skills can develope their own.
Perhaos you are right adn it is still a little early yet.. maybe next year..

  And if you select yes you will get 'index_html' and 'acl_users'
included..
  THIS is the entry point I am talking about
  The 'Add a Folder' page needs to offer more so that it can default to
the
  immediate bones of a useful site, methods and links. The irony to

 I think the "bones of a useful site" belong in a different object than a
 Folder, though I agree that specialized products/objects for canned sites
 would be a nice addition to the Zope products list, whether from DC or the
 community.

Yes.  How about :
- 'Add Bones object'
- 'Add Navigation Object'
- Add Styles object'
- 'Add Report Object'
- 'Add WebSite Object'

Any one else interested to go further with this?

kind regards
- Jason


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Re: [Zope] Looking for Zope vs. Others at-a-glance comparison

2000-09-11 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Exactly.
My concern is to get the right kind of discussion going because it is
going
to need some differnt kinds of minds to work together.

 This meshes with my thinking recently. I think many in the Zope
 community are "early-adopters" kind of people -- willing to put up
 with spending time to know the ins and outs of DTML or python
 programmers who would do most in python. A python programmer or early
 adopter does not a typical web design team make. Personally. I like the
 notion of a DTML an that you can do a little business logic there if
 you choose to. This issue with DTML in my mind is that its
 syntax/semantics design throws people for loops that can waste their
 time for sometimes days. Early adopters will go through this trial by
 fire. I did and now on the other side I know the gotchas.  Early
 adopters are a special breed of people that will give a new product a
 ring of success but this pool saturates easily, leading a new company
 to the chasm.


Well put.

 To cross the chasm, and reach a broader audience, this trial by fire
 phase of becoming a productive Zope user has to be reduced -- in
 addition to addressing other productivity parts of the bigger product
 pie mentioned in prior messages.

 If you are interested in understanding the business of Crossing the
 Chasm, I would recommend a book by the same name.  I think the Zope
 story is still unfolding on how an open source product will cross the
 chasm.

 Regards,
 Albert Boulanger
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thanks for this. It looks interesting. Google came up with:
http://www.testing.com/writings/reviews/moore-chasm.html
http://www.mit.edu/people/wdc/chasm.html

and a lot of other funny stuff

I recommend Don Norman's "The Invisble Computer".
It belongs on teh same shelf next to 'Crossing the Chasm'.

regards
- JASon


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Re: [Zope] Looking for Zope vs. Others at-a-glance comparison

2000-09-10 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hi Nils

thanks for your reply
  What's missing?

 For example, everything with Java (e.g. Apple WebObjects) or
 Perl (e.g. Mason).

[doh] Java..Right [see what using zope does to one ?  ;-)

 There is a good overview of Content Management Systems at

 http://www.camworld.com/cms/

Excellent. Thanks very much for this.
and supplying a magic_phrase  = 'Content Management System'

  For each of above I'd like to fill in the following:
 
  {'name':"name", 'features':{feature dict},'pro':[pros],
  'con':[cons] }

 That's a bit difficult to do because we don't know what you
 want to do with a CMS/web application platform. Manila, for
 instance, is a nice end-user weblog application but not a
 replacement for a real web app server.

Yes of course not.
But imagine one meets up with a small group of  experienced people who have
all been working around Content Management Systems, are in Zope and are
tracking the developments both potential and RealWorld(tm). The you ask them
ok to get started can please resume for me zope and alternative systems
according you whatever priorities/experiences you wish. That conversation is
_not_ going to read like a research document. It is going be opinionated,
informed, direct and typically subjectively prioritized.. and damn helpful

I agree about Manila.
pros = ['good idea', 'great community', 'cool interesting RealWorld sites',
'designer-savvy', 'very user friendly' ]
cons = ['mac/win only', 'does not scale well to become 'real' web app
server', etc..]

What is very impressive is that it has focused on some real end user need
and answered that in large part. Zope could learn a lot from Manila.
[Zopefish etc]. Mostly Zope imho is just plain damn ugly out of the  box...
like some ghost from the 70s  - zero graphics sense.. it s a bitch to make a
decventlooking page in zope when it shouldn't be, not one nice looking zope
site I have visited yet vs. all those nice looking nice reading Weblogs.
Why?? Well Zope is very cool and powerful adn full of potential but try to
use it and even seasoned programmers become unraveled in obfuscated syntax,
etc etc.

I love what Zope represents, what it _can_ do, but I do not like what I see
people actually doing with it. This continues to bother me and I keep my eye
on where the alternatives are going for much the same reasons. Jeff Shelton
has been putting up great service with his ZopeNewbies page. Not an accident
that he is running it on Manila - because Manila makes it easy to set this
stuff up and keep it going. Zope does not.

In part the difference are that Manila attracts a more aesthetically
[visually] aware crowd than Zope. Zope is geeky and damn proud of it. Zope
rocks but there are no rocking zope sites that I can tell. Please correct me
if I am wrong.
[yes I am Awaiting some real news about CBS etc]
But look at the 'Case Studies' page..

It is not even titled  'Sites using Zope'
instead "The following are a list of case studies in which Zope provided the
solution."
Reading between the lines it does not inspire great confidence. Nor does
there appear to

Is the problem with the tool the technology or the users??
It is not an either or question - its a synergy issue.. But Zope does
nothing to encourage one alas nor do the examples out there, [yet].

Imagine if the home page at www.zope.org was built using Manila?
I'll bet it would be more dynamic more readable, more fun, more useful that
it is now. Even having a damn calendar to browse through developments, news
adn changes would be good. Not to mention the decidedly dead and strange
style and links. What a shame. But it does not stop me loving what is cool
about zope or trying to use it.

But as soon as more Manila-like Zope comes along I am likely going to jump
ship, because Zope is expensive to run. I am not talking about the free
price, I am talking about the counter-intuitive chaotically undocumented
nature of Zope.
And that costs developer time wickedly..Yes I know it is changing and
improving and I am holding on and hanging in there, hoping a) it improves
and b) I improve..

  If was more adept in DTML was I could put up a comparative poll page
though
  I suspect most here would respond like you Nils.

 I'm only an innocent Computer Science student who still thinks
 that in Real Life (tm) outside university you research competing
 solutions before selecting a product :-)

Of course you are right in this respect. We did that and
For-what-we-wanted-to-do, Zope met the most important criteria. But our
Project proposal was written and given the initial green light over 1 year
ago. It was an experiment to use zope then , and the experiment is still
running.

In brief I continue to be very impressed by portable import/export features
of Zope.
But we have elected to use External Methods to bypass lack-of-confidence and
some of the headaches we experienced doing things with DTML. We like the
resultant stretegy as it play sto both our own strengths and Zope's
strengths we think.

So 

Re: [Zope] Looking for Zope vs. Others at-a-glance comparison

2000-09-10 Thread Jason Cunliffe

 Completely calm and friendly opinions follow...

yes thanks..

 I don't think it's any more difficult to create an attractive
 (graphics-wise) site in Zope than it is with PHP or ASP or plain old
 Apache-served HTML files.  Quite honestly, I'm not qualified to do it with
 any tool. :-)  I get the feeling that a lot of people expect Zope to
design
 sites for them.  Maybe they're expecting too much.  Or maybe I'm expecting
 too little???  Or maybe it's that most of the people using Zope today
(like
 me) are not pretty-site designers, but people that want a powerful tool to
 manage the most important part of a site...content.

I agree absolutely that Zope is on level with PHP, ASP apacheHTML in terms
of ease.
My point is that Zope allows one to create powerful highlevel functionality
at many levels, wrapping, hiding, abstracting, reusing, modularizing things
which potentially could allow graphic designers to jump in and do great
work. But out of the box it does not and for perhaps cultural reasons will
not..Zope is largely based on reusable templates, and chunks of 'smart-html'
better known as DTML.

What Manila has done is to provide some reasonable default templates for
getting useful site development work done 'out of the box' - they have
provided a structure template, and well defined access to changing the
obvious things people want to change.

Perhaps the only product which does for Zope is Squishdot.. and I think that
largely explains why most Zope sites are Squishdot or modified squishdot
sites. I do not believe it is content vs. style.. I really think it is a
matter of Zope programmers working with graphics and web site interface
designers to create some much more accessible site templates. I fear that
without these Zope will be missing a great opportunity to extend itself into
RealWorld web applications. It _has_ the capability but lacks the real
benefits in the zope community 2-way dialogue between content managers and
content presenters. The point of view is wonderful, but rather one sided.

 Zope is not to blame for what people have done with it on the visual side.
 Content is far more important than visual appeal.  I see too many
companies
 (many of my clients) ignoring this and focusing way too much on layout,
 placement of images, colors, cute JavaScript menus and other fancy stuff.
 I'm not saying these things are not at all important.  Browsing an
 unattractive, sloppily layed out site with lots of useful information is
 annoying and distracting.  But it's *far* better than browsing a fancy,
 "attractive" site that has nothing to offer other than sparse information,
 pretty images and slow viewing time.

Yes and Yes.
But be careful not to ignore the implications that the medium is [part of]
the message.
Style _is_  part of the content. Depends on who and what your audience is.
In so far as websites are [virtual] places, the look and feel of the
environment does matter.
Where people get carried away to either extreme they will surely fall off
those edges.

The invisible server-side aspects of sites will only be visible as
experienced functionality by end users.
But  the visible client-side is all they will ever touch. yin and yang.
How they fit together is where the magic lies.

It takes a diversity of talents and perspectives to make this work.
Content not style is a great mantra - but it leads to content without style
[and vice versa] and who wants that?

I did not say it had to be complex or excessive.. Less is more and much
harder to design often.
The problem is that to achieve good minimal design requires a lot of
iterations. People are looking for new interface paradigms and also better
tools to allow them to find them, and subsequently explore them when they
do.

This means tools with the flexibility of zope but not in it its present
state of awareness.

 It's the site designers.  Zope isn't designed for assistance in creating
 attractive sites.  It's designed for creating manageable sites.  It's
 completely up to the designers to make it attractive, using tools designed
 to do so.  Zope (in my experience) does nothing to limit the ability to
make
 a site attractive, but it does do buckets for increasing manageability.

Yes. I quite agree..But why are there no attractive Zope sites?

My argument is that zope does nothing to HELP one's ability to make a site
attractive.
Actually it does limit one's ability. for example look at even the syntax
for making an image object borderless? it aunt obvious.. and it could/should
be part of the image object properties

--or how about a rollover button.. Yes that is a JavaScript problem perhaps,
but what about including that as a BASIC feature of modern websites. But
imagine if that alone was made easier by zope.
Navigation bar objects would be another big plus.
Or how about a web page 'Table object' which made allowed one rapidly to
group and include other zope object in a useful and productive way.

This is not gratuitous graphics this is stuff 

[Zope] Looking for Zope vs. Others at-a-glance comparison

2000-09-09 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hello

I need to present the arguments for why we haev chosen Zope vs. Others.

Does anyone know of a clear at-a-glance table or anything with the main
contenders, features, price, licensing etc.

Thanks
- Jason

Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director



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Re: [Zope] Looking for Zope vs. Others at-a-glance comparison

2000-09-09 Thread Jason Cunliffe

  I need to present the arguments for why we haev chosen Zope vs. Others.
  Does anyone know of a clear at-a-glance table or anything with the main
  contenders, features, price, licensing etc.

 You didn't collect this data _before_ choosing Zope? :-)

lol

not really.. back then it seemed obvious to me why to try zope what's
interesting about it:

zope_pros = ['idea', 'free', 'openSource', 'Zserver', 'ZODB', 'x-platform',
'persistence',
'python', 'DTML', 'community', 'zopezen', 'scale and scope', 'easy install',
'External Methods', '.zexp files']

and what's to watch out for
zope_cons = ['DTML', 'documentation', 'lack of books', 'lack of demonstrable
large
commercial or cool sites', 'lack of  visual design sense' 'versionitis',
'zopezen', 'learning curve', 'DTML interface/edit-test cycle']

...to be clearer in a wide context

As I see it these are the alternative choices:

name
- Zope
- ColdFusion
- ASP
- Roxen
- Vignette
- AOLserver/ArsDigita
- Manila ?

Do you agree?
What's missing?

For each of above I'd like to fill in the following:

{'name':"name", 'features':{feature dict},'pro':[pros],
'con':[cons] }

where

feature dict = {'OS': [], 'Xplatform':[], 'cost':[] , 'sourcecode':[],
'license':[], 'openSource':[]
'version':[],  'scriptinglanguages':[], 'DBconnectivity':[] )

Any takers?

If was more adept in DTML was I could put up a comparative poll page though
I suspect most here would respond like you Nils.

cheers
- Jason



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[Zope] WOWDamn !! ZopeNewbies wakeup

2000-09-06 Thread Jason Cunliffe

This is for any+all of you new to Zope.. and for those like me who have been
struggling with DMTL for too long.

I just found a perfect *gemstone* burried in 'Chapter6 - Advanced DTML' of
the online sample of the O'Reilly Zope Book at
http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/AdvDTML/view

"""
The REQUEST namespace is very useful in Zope since it is the primary way
that clients (in this case, web browsers) communicate with Zope by providing
form data, cookies and other information about themselves.

A very simple and enlightening example is to simply print the REQUEST out in
an HTML page:

dtml-var standard_html_header

dtml-var REQUEST

dtml-var standard_html_footer

""""

Try it...beautiful and yes very enlightening.

This should be on www.zope.org PageZero in my opinion
I never saw a single line of ZopeDTML which so well demonstrates what it is
capable of and why it _is_ cool when you know what to type.

Get this book in Print asap please!

thanks
- Jason

PS. Be warned: 8-()
 if you try put the code above in a DTML methods named 'showREQUEST' or
'show_REQUEST' it will not work = 'Id already in use'


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[Zope] How to make and populate properties remotely..? 4 questions of the apocalypse..

2000-09-05 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hello

Hoping some kind enlightened zopistas can point me to existing examples or
show me how the syntax works for this:

1. I need to  write a simple general method which will allow me to create a
property in the parent folder.

for example:

'createParentProperty()'  DTMLmethod
---
dtml with PARENTS[-1]
  dtml manage_addProperty(Id = 'myNewPopertyName')
  dtml manage_addProperty(type = 'tokens')
  dtml manage_addProperty(value = '')
dtml-with
-

2.  Then I need to extend my 'createParentProperty()'  method so I can call
it from an URL, http POST or GET.
I want to pass or fetch the parent folder's property 'Id' name.
for example:

http://www.zopesite.net/TOP/SUB/PROJECTA/createParentProperty?=id+statistics
type=tokens

will create a property Id = 'statistics' in PROJECTA folder of my site whose
type = 'tokens'
but if it exists already it will return a '1'

How to do this?


3. Then I need to do the same thing but this time setting or getting the
property's 'Value' field via http POST or GET.

for example:

http://www.zopesite.net/TOP/SUB/PROJECTA/createParentProperty?=id+statistics
value+2000september

will create a new property id = 'statistics', type = 'tokens', value ='
2000september'
but if 'statistics' already exists, the method will just change the value

4. Finally some properties we need to 'lock' so they cannot be overwritten
by the above methods.
However I do need to check remotely over http if this is so. For example:

http://www.zopesite.net/TOP/SUB/PROJECTA/createParentProperty?=id+adminvalu
e+2000September

will return an integer '2' or string such as : 'locked' or "property id =
'admin' is locked"
where:
0 = does not exist
1 = exists
3 = locked

How to do this?

...ideally there there should be a separete method we can call to lock or
unlock a property for admin use over http


Thanks for any help..deadlines loom..
- Jason
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[Zope] Ad banners in Zope anyone ?

2000-09-02 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hello

I am glad to see any new web site anoncements using Zope.
For example the new Malaysian news service at http://www.emedia.com.my/

Out of curiosity I checked to see how they handled their ad banners:
a href="/phpAds/click.php3"img src="/phpAds/phpads.php3?what=NST"
border="0" width="468" height="60"

It looks like this is perhaps some instant cut-and-paste of exsiting PHP
tools tacked onto the Zope Server.
If it ain't broke don't fix it..and DTML aint pretty we know..

- Can one run PHP from inside of Zserver/ZODB easily?
- How would to do that?
- Is anyone using Zope for Ad Banner services??
- What would would make it a good or bad choice?

thanks
Jason
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Re: [Zope] Small Tip

2000-08-25 Thread Jason Cunliffe

THANK YOU!!!

- Jason

 Maik Roeder wrote:
  It always got on my nerves that I needed to change the column
  size of the DTML Method and DTML Document Edit Forms
  manually by pressing "Wider" and "Narrower".
  
  Instead of patching the Zope source code, I found the following
  a good approach:
  
  Define a property in your root folder:
  
  id: dtpref_cols
  type: int
  value: 80
  
  The magic of acquisition does all the rest ;-)
 
 Or how about this (from Evan Simpson):
 
 In OFS/documentEdit.dtml change the line that reads:
 
 TEXTAREA NAME="data:text" WRAP="Off"
 
 to:
 
 TEXTAREA NAME="data:text" WRAP="Off" STYLE="width: 100%"
 
 This should make the edit box expand automatically to the full width in
 browsers that support this property, including IE 5.x and Mozilla but
 not Netscape 4.x.
 
 Shane



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Re: [Zope] Looping through a folder's contents...

2000-08-21 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hello

oops!.. I just tried this and now I am getting error messages saying "not
authorized" to access 'objectValues' - stranger yet seems to have broken my
login to Zope - so I am locked out from even getting back into the site to
fix ..hmm this can't be right.
I had put the Recurse_SubFolder method at top level, hoping to use it
liberally through the site. I then made a call to it from my site's root
index_html

Any ideas how to restore my Zope?

TIA
- Jason

- Original Message -
From: Andrew Kenneth Milton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 2:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Zope] Looping through a folder's contents...


 +---[ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ]--
 | I would like to loop through the contents of a folder, and the
 | contents of the subfolders of that folder.  I know I can do this to a
 | singular level by doing something like:
 |
 | dtml-in "subfolder.objectValues('Folder')"
 | dtml-var title
 | /dtml-in
 |
 | Should give me a list of the titles of all the subfolders of the
 | folder called "subfolder".  So, once I get there, how do I loop
 | through the subobjects of each of those folders?
 |
 | In other words, I have a subfolder inside of the folder called
 | "subfolder" and I want to see the contents of that folder.  How do I
 | do it?

 I'll give you the general case for 'all' folders:-

 Make a Method...  Recurse_SubFolder.

 dtml-in "root.objectValues('Folder')"
 dtml-in "_.range(depth)"nbsp;/dtml-indtml-var title
 dtml-var "Recurse_SubFolder(root=this(),depth=depth+1)"
 /dtml-in

 -

 dtml-var "Recurse_SubFolder(root=subfolder, depth=0)"


 You can obviously expand this to also take a 'type' for objectValues,
 and pass the namespace etc.

 --
 Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet|  P:+61 7 3870 0066   | Andrew
Milton
 The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd  |  F:+61 7 3870 4477   |
 ACN: 082 081 472 ABN: 83 082 081 472 |  M:+61 416 022 411   | Carpe Daemon
 PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068|[EMAIL PROTECTED]|

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[Zope] looking for DTML Property examples

2000-08-17 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hello

I am looking for some basic examples on using Properties in Zope.
For example: How-To write methods which put and get properties, and with
these examples of accessing properties via URLs directly as wellas via
custom methods.

There must be a ton of examples _somewhere_, but somehow, I can't seem to
find them and th ORA book is not out yet [praying hard for great index and
LOTS of small examples thourhgt the text].

Thanks in advance for any links

- Jason

Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director



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[Zope] Import broken by namespace conflict - fragile!

2000-08-14 Thread Jason CUNLIFFE [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Hello

This is a repost of a serious message I posted on friday.
[The threaded version of this list is corrupted - my message content has
been automatically replaced by another person's message, athough strangely,
the gzip archive is ok.]


Please can someone help us understand how to avoid DTML method names
conflicting with other zope objects with same name.

For example using Zope export/import during recent site development to
transfer work from local machines to the linux server broke sections of our
site in a manner which was very hard to find. The reason we have finally
traced to namespace conflict.

We imported code which included calls to a local zope object named 'swf' for
simple substitution. But suddenly our code did not work. It turned out that
another object identically named 'swf'  was an already existing 'folder'
..!!

This is a very disturbing discovery, becuase it implies that one might have
anywhere at anytime hidden or visible namespace conflicts emerging and
vanishing with no control. We had thought that dtml-with
something/dtml-with would avoid this. But it does not and may even cause
it! It also implies that makes development of Zope sites across various
machines very hit-or-miss

Please help..

Exact code dump follows...

1. I have an original DTML template called 'objembedswf' in a folder named
'Flash4'

OBJECT ID='login' CLASSID='clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-44455354'

CODEBASE='http://active.macromedia.com/flash2/cabs/swflash.cab#version=3,0,0
,0'
WIDTH=dtml-var width HEIGHT=dtml-var height
  PARAM NAME='Movie' VALUE='dtml-var swf'
  PARAM NAME='Play' VALUE='false'
  PARAM NAME='Quality' VALUE='best'
  PARAM NAME='swLiveConnect' VALUE='true'
  PARAM NAME='menu' VALUE='false'
  EMBED NAME='login' mayscript='mayscript' SRC='dtml-var swf'
swLiveConnect='true'
   WIDTH='100%' HEIGHT='100%' salign='t' quality='best' play='false'
menu='false'
   TYPE='application/x-shockwave-flash'
pluginspage='http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_
Version=ShockwaveFlash'
  /EMBED
/OBJECT


2. Below this my DTML file includes calls to this template like this:

dtml-with Flash4
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('swf','login.swf')"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('width','100%')"
dtml-call "REQUEST.set('height','100%')"
dtml-var objembedswf
/dtml-with


3. Here is the result of substitution returned in browser

OBJECT ID='login' CLASSID='clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-44455354'

CODEBASE='http://active.macromedia.com/flash2/cabs/swflash.cab#version=3,0,0
,0'
WIDTH=100% HEIGHT=100%
  PARAM NAME='Movie' VALUE='Folder instance at 8557b00'
  PARAM NAME='Play' VALUE='false'
  PARAM NAME='Quality' VALUE='best'
  PARAM NAME='swLiveConnect' VALUE='true'
  PARAM NAME='menu' VALUE='false'
  EMBED NAME='login' mayscript='mayscript' SRC='Folder instance at
8557b00' swLiveConnect='true'
   WIDTH='100%' HEIGHT='100%' salign='t' quality='best' play='false'
menu='false'
   TYPE='application/x-shockwave-flash'
pluginspage='http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_
Version=ShockwaveFlash'
  /EMBED
/OBJECT

I draw you attention to the fact that dtml-var swf was supposed to be
subsituted with 'login.swf',  but instead became Folder instance at
8557b00
..ouch..


4. The reason appears to be that there is a namespace conflict elsewhere in
my Zope tree. As it turns out, we have a folder right under / called 'swf'.
In fact it could be many places and still cause a conflict.

This 'bug/feature' is the same under Zope 2.1.6, and Zope 2.2.0 in Win98se
and LinuxRedhat.
Is it something about dtml-with or perhaps our use of dtml-call
"REQUEST.set which creates this unpredictable and confusing effect?
Is this is a bug? As it stands it means is is very hard to have people
working on separate sections of a Zope site because at any time they might
be causing namespace collisions like this. In our case the effect was
obvious - our swf files immedaitely woudl not display. But other voodoo
could easily occur which migh not appear for some time.

It provokes me to ask simply what is the search path priority of object
acquistion in zope and how do you control it safely?

Thank you
- Jason Cunliffe




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[Zope] IRC Chat - tools[win32]

2000-05-30 Thread Jason Cunliffe

quote
Jim Fulton and Paul Everett are going to be availiabe for a chat at
Wednesday, May 31 at 1:00 PM EST on the #zope channel of
irc.openprojects.net.
/quote

I have not used IRC before, but would love to join the chat session.

I just just downloaded a trial version of 'mIRC' software for Win32
from http://www.mirc.co.uk which seems to work ok. For the benefit of any
other IRC newbies like me on Win32, hre are some trivial how-to notes

help
1. Under 'options' menu select category=connect and then click 'Add'
2. Description = anynameyouwant, server = irc.openprojects.net,
port=6667[default, works ok], grouppassword = blank
3.This will return you to 'options' menu select category=connect. Enter your
name and email etc..Then select new server named anynameyouwant from the
pop-up menu, and click 'Connect to IRC Server' button
4. A window with scrolling list named "mIRC Channels Folder" should
appear.For the first time type "#zope" in the field titled "Enter name of
channel to join".. #zope will be added to the list.
5. Now select #zope from the scrolling list and click the 'Join' button
Voila..! You should now be in the zope chat window - other users will be
listed on right hand margin
help

irseeya
- Jason
________
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[Zope] WebObjects

2000-05-29 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hello

Now that Apple has slashed the price of WebObjects from $50,000 to $700, I
am very interested to hear any opinions/experiences of WebObjects.. how does
it compare with Z*** , Man***, Rox**, ColdF* etc
http://www.apple.com/webobjects/

-What are the good ideas?
-What is similar?
-What is different?
-How does WebObjects handle integration with various scripting languages:
Python, Perl etc
-What effect you think Apple's announcement wil have on webapp market and
development?

Thanks in advance for any feedback
- Jason

Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director



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Re:[Zope] A similar issue with Perl for Zope

2000-05-25 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Michel Pelletier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
 Jon Udell wrote:
 
  BTW, there is essentially no difference between VBScript, JavaScript,
  PerlScript, or PythonScript when used at this level. All can make the
  same CreateObject call, and diddle the controlled app's object model in
  the same ways. It ends up not being a language issue at all, but more a
  case of, as I said, what the heck is that object model anyway, and then
  why doesn't it behave as expected?

 This is such a good point I wanted to share it with the Zope community
 as well.  The language issue is minor to the need for a definate object
 model with clear interfaces.  It shouldn't matter if the core of Zope is
 written in Python or FORTH, from your perspective and the perspective of
 your language the model and interfaces should be well definded.

Amen!

- consistent object model
- a map of the damn thing, with a poster of same which you can hang on your
wall can meditate to
- consistent interface syntax you can learn in 10 minutes and then repeat ad
infinitum as you explore the map
- "apples-for-apples" examples with side-by-side scripting language use
  [VBScript, JavaScript,PerlScript, PythonScript, etc..]
- a welcome mat for all linguists
- a copy of ZIAN [Zope-In-A-Nutshell]

Jason
________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director


________
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Re: [Zope] Feedback Requested: Editor Applet for Zope?

2000-05-23 Thread Jason Cunliffe


- Original Message -
From: Heiko Stoermer [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 My question:
 Do you like the idea of having a slim java-based editor applet instead
 of the textarea?
 (NO, not a 400k editor with WYSIWYG preview and an exotic scripting
 engine - it's supposed to be _very_ slim)

 Please give me feedback on this, because if the community wants such a
 thing, I might start working on it.

 Thanks in advance,
 Heiko

Hello Heiko

Yes please!. Sounds like a great idea.
..and now for some wishlist slim features:

- maximise the text area horizontal + vertical quickly and easily [and then
store/fetch the prefs to/from a zope object  or method somewheres]

- scale type [change font size + font]

- some basic coloring or styling please... dtml-iwuyi  in colorA, other
non-dtml tags in colorB, anythin in "" in colorC, etc.

- keep a scrolling list on one margin of DTML so that one can click on items
to allow faster more accurate code paste [yes I am a lousy typist adn dtml
is _so_ picky] . The list can be preloaded with the obvious and not so
obvious and also  remembers recent chunks of dtml slilm 'history'.

maybe this request puts it over the size limit - but maybe not..:-)
goodluck

- Jason


________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director


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