[Zope] Re: acl_users folder 25000

2008-06-06 Thread Max M

Kees de Brabander skrev:

A client of mine wants a site that is only accessible for members. However,
there are more than 25000 members. Are there any reasons that would make it
unwise to populate an ordinary acl_users folder with such a number of user
accounts?



Have you tried to just generate 25K users in an empty site and see what 
happens? It should take 15 about minutes to set up and write the code.


Members are stored in a dict, and the ZODB. They should be plenty fast.

Last week I wrote a tool that imported 10K lines of data from a csv file 
as dicts. It took about 2 seconds to read them from disk and save them 
in the ZODB. That is comparable.


Perhaps you don't have a problem?



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[Zope] Re: problem migrating ZClasses from Zope 2.6.1 to Zope 2.9.8

2008-03-26 Thread Max M

Allen Schmidt Sr. skrev:
No idea even where to start. I played with creating a 'boring' object a 
while back but I am pretty sure ours is a tad more complicated. All the 
parts of our site I work on are in SQL and was never involved in the 
ZClass News stuff. It just works...and continues to work...but is 
limiting us from upgrading.



This product only needs minor changes in the initialization code to be 
used as a generic product:


http://www.mxm.dk/products/public/minimalPloneTool/

A bit more info here. Even though it is a bit outdated, it is pretty sound:

http://www.zope.org/Members/maxm/HowTo/minimal_01



So, where to start. Once we get some guidance, we could probably do it 
ourselves.  Anyone willing to a$$$ist? We don't have a budget for it but 
could scrape something together to get started.


You understand how to motivate ;-)



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[Zope] Looks like a great tool for making web apis with minimal effort.

2008-02-13 Thread Max M

A web based tool for making any site into an api using xml, json etc.

See the screencast:
http://grid.orch8.net/extractions/grab

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[Zope] Re: Zope/plone behind ISS

2008-02-07 Thread Max M

TrashMan skrev:

I can't. There is another service active with IIS .


Oh yes. Just put apache in front of that and proxy it. No one will know 
the difference.



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[Zope] Re: urlparse equivalent

2007-12-15 Thread Max M

David Bear skrev:

On Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 09:16:54PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



I'm a little suprised that there isn't anything like urlparse
functionaly in zope. I would think parsing urls would be a fairly
common chore. Which leads me to think that I may be thinking
completely wrong about what I want to accomplish.



You practically newer use urlparse like functionality when scripting and 
skinning zope.


You sometimes do when developing special products, but then you got the 
entire python library to use.



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[Zope] Re: Groupmember in ATWorkgroups

2007-11-20 Thread Max M

PaulGoe skrev:


My problem is that I'm not good in Python. But I'm willing to look for a
possibility to change the code if I'm sure that I'm working at the right
part. :-)


You are, but you need to change the portlet too, so that you don't link 
to the homefolder. Afair there si probably a few more place that needs a 
bit of changing for it to work.


The main reason I have not changed it, is because it would change break 
the installed based.


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[Zope] Re: How to use Zope2 products in Zope3 ?

2007-10-10 Thread Max M

Andreas Jung skrev:



--On 10. Oktober 2007 15:05:31 +1000 Andrew Milton 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



+---[ Andreas Jung ]--
|
|  Look at Philipp von Weitershausens Zope 3 Book or the Zope 3 Cockbock
|  by Stefan Richter.

I think you mean cookbook. d8)


ups :-)



I believe the cockbook is by Steven Rooster. A synonym for Charles Dickens.


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[Zope] Re: Zope is in trouble

2007-09-27 Thread Max M

Andreas Jung skrev:
Basically everything is true. The time of www.zope.org as a software 
repository has gone. In earlier times zope.org has been the only Zope 
related site. Nowadays with the growth and Zope and a lot of new 
projects, projects moved out into different sites. zope.org is an 
official project of the Zope Foundation and there were some talks on 
relaunching zope.org - however I don't know about details and the 
current state. The new site is likely to become a small site 
representing the Zope platform  in the first place.



I used to be pretty active on the original Zope site. Then we got what 
we asked for, and it was migrated to Plone.


Then it got too cumbersome to work with, and I put all the new stuff out 
on my own site.


These days I use a mix of plone.org and my own site.

zope.org is pretty irrelevant to what I do these days. I believe it is 
so for many zope people.


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[Zope] Re: genealogy product?

2007-09-07 Thread Max M

Mihamina (R12y) Rakotomandimby skrev:

Hi,
Would you know any genealogy product for Zope?
Is zope a tool for managing a big (20 members) of genealogy oriented 
group, which has over 150,000,000 entries in the genealogy tree?


It is now managed with about 20 servers and SQL databases but Zope might 
be a solution, isn't it?



It depends a bit on what kind of data is in the genealogy product.

If it is 150,000,000 of very similar data objects, it might be better 
stored in a relational database.


It would probably be relatively simple to create a small working 
product, to import some of the data and see how it pans out.


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[Zope] Re: Zope products that allows people to Add Commentsto publications

2007-06-29 Thread Max M

Shane Graber skrev:


A quick look at svn
(http://squishdot.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/squishdot/) shows no
activity for 11 months, which also lends itself to this inference.
I'm not meaning to sound harsh so I hope it doesn't come across this
way.


Ahh ... spoken as a true Plone developer. You are too used to minor 
versions breaking stuff.


The upshot of the dev team moving their time and efforts to zope 3 is 
that the zope 2 base stays very stable :-s


I have some stuff from years ago that runs unchanged on recent zope 2's

If it it aint broke ... :-)


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[Zope-dev] Re: ZClassNG and ProductNG proposal

2007-04-26 Thread Max M

Andreas Jung skrev:


He's trying to reinvent wheels? Reads a bit like GrokNG :-)


And reinventing the wheel is bad?

I believe that pirelli or firestone has a larger market than Zope. And 
they do nothing but.


Besides, my car would suck with stone wheels at 100MPH. Well probably 
allready at 1MPH.


Reinventing the wheel as something bad, is only bad as a metaphor

;-)

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[Zope-dev] Re: ZClasses Maintenance and Upgrade

2007-04-18 Thread Max M

Jonathan skrev:


- Original Message - From: Christopher Lozinski 


Well I have finally reached the stage where I am pushing the limits of 
ZClasses and would love an upgrade.  Guess I need to do it myself.


I know this is a serious PITA... I just spent 3 months replacing 
ZClasses with a custom product in a client's web site because they did 
not want to get stuck in an old version of Zope.



Come on now.

I wrote this 5 message years ago:

http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope/2002-May/115427.html

ZClasses have not changed since. It cannot be a surprise.

:-)


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[Zope] Re: Urgent Help Required......

2007-01-15 Thread Max M

Reena Karthikeyan skrev:

*Dear All,*

* *
*I am a new user of Zope. I am sure, all of you all are masters at using
Zope. I am not sure if I am writing my query to the right place. However,
please forgive me if I am doing something wrong. *
**



Please read this document

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#urgent


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[Zope] Re: a question about aq_base

2006-11-29 Thread Max M

Dieter Maurer skrev:

Yuri wrote at 2006-11-28 14:23 +0100:

here: http://docs.neuroinf.de/programming-plone/ate we can read:

   obj = brain.getObject().aq_base

why .aq_base and not only brain.getObject()? :)


Usually, it is a bad idea to use aq_base in Zope applications

You should carefully examine the context of the code fragment above.
Maybe, the context is one of the rare situations where aq_base
is called for...


Why is it rare?

I often need to check if an object has a certain attribute. Getting 
aquisition into the mix is a bad idea there.::


name = getattr(obj, 'name')

Is a lot different than

name = getattr(obj.aq_base, 'name')

In the first example you don't know if the name attribute is an aquired 
object or an attribute on the actual object. Which can make for 
uncontrollable results.


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[Zope] Re: newbie -- creating a Product

2006-11-06 Thread Max M

Aidan skrev:
I'm a complete Zope novice. Forgive me if my question is inane. 


I need to be able to send an e-mail (following a form submit) with an attachment
(and I prefer not to use DTML). I can send e-mails withOUT attachments, but
according to this: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope/2005-May/159291.html



If your are using Zope 2 and is a newbie, do yourself the favour of 
starting with Zope 3.


If you want to work in zope 2 you should use Plone as a base, and create 
 products with Archgen XML (AGX)


There are no advantages in using plain Zope 2 anymore.


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[Zope] Re: newbie -- creating a Product

2006-11-06 Thread Max M

Jens Vagelpohl skrev:

If your are using Zope 2 and is a newbie, do yourself the favour of 
starting with Zope 3.


If you want to work in zope 2 you should use Plone as a base, and 
create  products with Archgen XML (AGX)


There are no advantages in using plain Zope 2 anymore.


I'm sorry, that's just complete BS.



No it isn't!

Mind what I said (or tried to say). If you are a *new developer*, with a 
*new project*, you are far better of starting with Zope 3 than with Zope 2.


If you need features that are in Zope 2 but not in Zope 3, you are 
better of using a framework like Plone.


I have done Zope for +6 years, and I would not dream of starting up a 
project from scratch in Zope 2 anymore.


I did not say that Zope 2 was useless. I still spend most of my time 
working on Plone based projects.


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[Zope] Re: newbie -- creating a Product

2006-11-06 Thread Max M

Jens Vagelpohl skrev:

Mind what I said (or tried to say). If you are a *new developer*, with 
a *new project*, you are far better of starting with Zope 3 than with 
Zope 2.


That's questionable. Answers like this only add to a certain FUD factor 
out there about Zope2 being thrown out shortly.


You don't have to throw out Zope 2 to start using Zope 3. Just ignore 
Zope 2 and get on with it.



If you need features that are in Zope 2 but not in Zope 3, you are 
better of using a framework like Plone.


Hell no. Trying to throw a complete newbie not just into developing with 
Zope, but developing with Plone on top of Zope is, IMHO, insane. Not 
only do you need to learn Zope, you also need to learn the various Plone 
programming paradigms.


That is why I recommended Zope 3 as the first choice. Zope 3 is clearly 
ready for production. In many areas it is allready far better than Zope 2.


I don't understand why it is better for a newbie to learn Zope 2 than 
Zope 3? Zope 2 has so many warts, and is a dead end.



That's just bad advice, unless someone truly 
wants those portal-like functionalities in Plone.


And if they don't, they should use Zope 3.


I did not say that Zope 2 was useless. I still spend most of my time 
working on Plone based projects.


This is a case of professional blinders. You've been working with a 
specific combination for years so these things come easy to you. The 
problem is you don't seem to see that there is healthy life outside of 
Plone. Or outside of Zope 3, for that matter.



Well the problem is that Zope 2 was never easy for beginners either. And 
by now it is starting to get phased out for Zope 3.


This is not something I make up. It is the stated goal for all the Zope 
2 based projects I have heard about. They call it slowly migrating to 
Zope 3, but it really is the same goal!


This will take years. But it is happening. Eg. any new development in 
Plone will be in Zope 3. At least afaik.


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[Zope] Re: newbie -- creating a Product

2006-11-06 Thread Max M

Jonathan skrev:

P.S.  if you want a complete newbie NOT to use zope, throw them into the 
deep end with Zope 3 (compared to Zope 2 there is not a lot of 
documentation, examples, and expertise available to help newbies; not to 
mention the fact that Zope 3 is still rapidly evolving).


There is a *lot* more documentation of Z3 than there was of Z2 when I 
was a newbie in that...



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[Zope] Re: newbie -- creating a Product

2006-11-06 Thread Max M

Jonathan skrev:

Well the problem is that Zope 2 was never easy for beginners either. 
And by now it is starting to get phased out for Zope 3.


This is the first I have heard about Zope 2 being phased out...


Well .. get used to it then ;-)

Z2 will keep on being maintained until it is replaced by Z3. The goal of 
the zope developers is not about keeping Z2 and Z3 running for as long 
as possible. Only for as long as necessary.


Z2 is still being maintained, and will be for a long time. But the 
development is all moving in the direction of Z3.


Read the changelog of the latest Z2 releases. They are practially only 
about bugfixes and Z3 integration. Core Zope 2 development has 
practically grinded to a halt. New developments are taking place in Zope 3.



How is that not an outphasing?

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[Zope] Re: newbie -- creating a Product

2006-11-06 Thread Max M

Andreas Jung skrev:



--On 6. November 2006 20:01:55 +0100 Max M 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Well the problem is that Zope 2 was never easy for beginners either. And
by now it is starting to get phased out for Zope 3.


BS



A case of bear says that in the next two years (1. Jan. 2008) the vast 
majority of Zope development will take place in Z3 technologies.


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[Zope] Re: newbie -- creating a Product

2006-11-06 Thread Max M

Max M skrev:

Andreas Jung skrev:



--On 6. November 2006 20:01:55 +0100 Max M 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Well the problem is that Zope 2 was never easy for beginners either. And
by now it is starting to get phased out for Zope 3.


BS



A case of bear says that in the next two years (1. Jan. 2008) the vast 
majority of Zope development will take place in Z3 technologies.



A case of beer will do in lack of bears.

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[Zope] Re: newbie -- creating a Product

2006-11-06 Thread Max M

Andreas Jung skrev:

The future of Zope 2 and Zope 
3 are open - 


Yes so please stop arguing as if we are arguing anything but opinions.


read the corresponding posting on Zope 2+3 by Jim Fulton 
published after the last PyCon. There is no word of phasing out Zope 2.


I believe it will happen a lot faster than you think. New versions of 
Plone will use it exensively, so there will be a lot of new developers 
from that comunity. Which is pretty big. That will drive the shift forward.


I know plenty of Plone developers, and I don't recall that any of them 
yearn to stay in Z2 after having tried Z3. Quite the opposite.



Btw. I don't see any reason to use words like 'drivel' and 'bullshit'.

It is rude and counterproductive. And I don't recall that I have been 
rude on this list in general or to you specifically.


I am not trolling I just gave a new developer what I believe is good advice.


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[Zope-dev] Re: Future of ZClasses

2006-09-27 Thread Max M

Andreas Jung skrev:



--On 27. September 2006 13:47:26 -0400 Jonathan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

... i don't suppose anyone has an 'automagical' utility that instantly
transforms zclasses to python classes, and then changes all dtml/external
method usage do they?   ...didn't think so ;-)


Also I don't think so. Just my personal opinion: ZClasses were the biggest
mistake in the history of Zope :-)



Only the implementation.

The idea of interactively creating objects through the web is a 
brilliant idea.




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[Zope-dev] Re: I'm starting to get bored of people complaining about Zope

2006-09-06 Thread Max M

Sidnei da Silva wrote:

Regarding: I'm starting to get bored of people complaining about Zope

Being a full time active Zope developer (as in developing with zope) for 
at least 7 year, having contributed code, libraries, documentation and 
products, I believe I have earned the right to complain once every 
second year so!


I know that if I have problems developing in Zope, so does many more people.

And yes Zope 3 is the future, and will make everything so easy for 
developers. But in the meantime we don't have to scare people of with a 
difficult development process.


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[Zope-dev] Re: I am starting to hate Zope/Plone development and its bl**dy lack of refresh.

2006-09-05 Thread Max M

Max M wrote:


I am not sure what is causing the problems. I am mostly a developer of
end user tools. Not a core Zope/Plone developer. And I am not really
interested in becoming one either. There must be a niche for developers 
like me that focus on end users.



Well ok. I have researched a bit more. All the speedup suggestions gave 
at maximum 5-10 seconds. Not nearly enough. (Didn't try to buy a new 
computer though. Will do that next week ;-)


I also tried to run Zope as a zeo client from a usb flash disk.

As expected the initial compilation to byte code was slw. I then 
expected it to run fast after that. It didn't!

*clever* configuration clearly wasn't clever enough for me.


So I made a site with a standard Zope tool:

class simple_tool(UniqueObject, PropertyManager,
   SimpleItem.SimpleItem, ActionProviderBase):


And I added a simple Plone skin.

Now refresh worked like a charm. Both when changing the code in the tool 
and the page templates in the skin.


So the problem only exists for me in Archetype based products. Anytime I 
do a change in any AT content type I need to restart the site.


Can anybody confirm this behavior?


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[Zope-dev] Re: I'm starting to get bored of people complaining about Zope

2006-09-05 Thread Max M

Sidnei da Silva wrote:

On Tue, Sep 05, 2006 at 03:39:14PM +0200, Max M wrote:
| So the problem only exists for me in Archetype based products. Anytime I 
| do a change in any AT content type I need to restart the site.
| 
| Can anybody confirm this behavior?


That's a known-(at least to me)-issue. 


   When you refresh an Archetypes-based product you need to refresh
   Archetypes as well. You can do this by marking the product as
   dependent on Archetypes and then refresh Archetypes (which will
   refresh it's dependencies, refreshing your product).


I have tried that. It doesn't work.


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[Zope-dev] I am starting to hate Zope/Plone development and its bl**dy lack of refresh.

2006-09-04 Thread Max M

Back in the olden days Zope developments was tiresome. You did a change
in your source file, and you needed to restart Zope to see the change.

Then a 'refresh' option was made, and products would get automatically
refreshed when a change was made. Sweet times.

But doing development in Plone has become increasingly tiring since Zope
2.8 and up.

Refresh no longer works, and the old debug, correct, restart cycle is
back.

Only this time a software stack the size a skyscrapers has to be loaded.
Making it even slower than in the old Zope days.

I am developing on a 1.2 GHz Athlon machine with 1 GB of ram. A slow
machine by modern standards, I know. But it has been fast enough for
everything so far. Just not for modern Plone development!

A restart of Plone 2.5 - (Zope 2.8.6-final, python 2.3.5, win32) takes
46 seconds on this machine. For every little change. And it is driving
me crazy.

If I install zeo I can cut it down to 40 seconds :-s


I am not sure what is causing the problems. I am mostly a developer of
end user tools. Not a core Zope/Plone developer. And I am not really
interested in becoming one either. There must be a niche for developers 
like me that focus on end users.



I love Python because development/testing is so fast. Recompiling code
in Java etc. to see a little chance, is a bad idea to me. But The
Zope/Plone has developed into exactly this. I know that it technically
is two different processes. But for me the end result is the same.

I could try running a zeo client from a usb drive to get a faster 
restart, but it takes 20 minute to copy all the files to it.


Does anybody have a clue as to where the problem is? And why aren't 
there any more people complaining about it? Is it because I develop on 
Windows and am the only one doing so?



What do I have to do to get the sweet sweet refresh working again?


Frustrated regards Max

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[Zope] Re: zope or python reading big or little Endian...

2006-08-28 Thread Max M

Allen Huang wrote:

can anyone help me with this? I have a file that is written in a combination of 
big and little Endian bit-coding, can does anyone know how I can translate 
using python or zope?



Check out Pythons struct module

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[Zope] Re: Zope behind iis

2006-08-24 Thread Max M

Philip Kilner wrote:

Hi Chris,

Chris Withers wrote:

Personally, I'd just put Apache in front of both Zope and IIS...


Me too - simpler, better documented, safer.

(Having seen a server wiped out via an IIS security hole, I just don't
trust it on a public IP - long time ago, but once bitten, twice shy!)



Hmmm ... then try making a mistake in your apache httpd.conf and turn on 
proxy by mistake.


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[Zope] Using property() function in Zope 2.8

2006-07-06 Thread Max M
I needed to dynamically generate local roles for an Archetypes based 
content object today.


Different layers in my Plone stack breaks all rules and reads the 
__ac_local_roles__ variable directly, instead of calling get_local_roles()


So to maximize the compatibility between Zopes zmi and Plones local 
roles management I wanted to make '__ac_local_roles__' a property with 
setters and getters.


My AT class was based via a few hops on:

'from ExtensionClass import Base'.

And as far as I understand from the release notes Zope 2.8.x should use 
extension classes based on new style classes. So the property function 
should work.



This code below works in plain Python. But when I add them to my zope 
class, and run the tester() method I get an Attributer Error: 
__ac_local_roles__


Any ideas/comments?



# -*- coding: latin-1 -*-

class PropTest:

def get__ac_local_roles__(self):
return self.__mxm__ac_local_roles__

def set__ac_local_roles__(self, value):
self.__mxm__ac_local_roles__ = value

def del__ac_local_roles__(self):
del self.__mxm__ac_local_roles__

__ac_local_roles__ = property(get__ac_local_roles__,
  set__ac_local_roles__,
  del__ac_local_roles__,
  Local roles on object)

def tester(self):
return self.__ac_local_roles__


if __name__ == '__main__':

p = PropTest()
p.__ac_local_roles__ = 'working'
print p.tester()

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[Zope] Re: Using property() function in Zope 2.8

2006-07-06 Thread Max M

Fred Drake wrote:

On 7/6/06, Rob Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

it's not an answer to your original question (i have nothing to add to
what fred already replied) but TeamSpace solves this by using a
ComputedAttribute instead of a property for the dynamic local roles.


Yeah, I forgot all about ComputedAttribute.  That's probably what you
want if your class is an ExtensionClass.



Yeah. I remember too now. I don't think I have used one of those since 
2000 in plain Zope.


Thanks.


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[Zope] Re: Improved Zope Org Proposal

2006-06-27 Thread Max M

Chris Withers wrote:

David H wrote:
This is sounding more bizzare with each day and it doesnt feel good.  
Zope cant maintain a friggin web site?  Isnt that rich.


Hey David,

Cool, thanks so much for volunteering to provide all the resources, 
coders and support staff to look after a 10,000 user site with all the 
problems that entails.


Oh? What's that? You weren't volunteering?



Personally I have not visited zope.org for a few years for anything 
other than releases. And I am a long time pro developer.


It seems pretty obvious these days that having a one-shop zope.org site 
is too ambitious. Perhaps even wrong guided.



I wouldn't even know what should be on it. Zope 2 development mostly 
means Plone these days. Plone has a great site already, so no reason to 
do to much about that.



Pure Zope 3 is in even less use than pure Zope 2.

The exciting stuff is going on in Five and 2-3 integration. But why the 
heck make a site about that?


You could say that zope has been beaten by its own success.


The only sensible approach I can see is to make a new zope.org with 
releases, installation guides etc. It should also showcases the great 
cms/applications that are build on top of it. With links to those sites.


On those individual sites there are lots of documentation, product 
releases programming tricks etc.



Eg. I develop in Plone, and practically all I knew about programming in 
pure Zope 2 is useless now that I am using UML/AT/AGX in Plone. It's 
like assembly language to a python programmer. I assume that it is the 
same for other frameworks.


Having a 'Products' section on zope.org probably doesn't even make sense 
anymore. It is simply to low level.



Drop all the old documentation and move it to old.zope.org. Just in 
cases there is a nugget somewhere.



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[Zope-dev] Re: Unify the Zope 2 and Zope 3 repositories!

2006-06-26 Thread Max M

Chris Withers wrote:

Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:

Jim suggested a different strategy with Zope 5
(http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-dev/2006-February/018415.html).
The little bits and pieces that make up Zope 3 (the zope.* packages)
would be developed more or less independently of Zope-the-app-server
(which would only be one product called Zope 5 and incorporate ideas
from Zope 2 and 3 and use those bits and pieces).


Well, the sooner better...

...this comes mainly from my desire to see the exponential combination 
of branches problem go away...



Technically speaking, isn't that a squared problem?

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[Zope] Re: Need prof. tool for conversion html-pdf

2006-06-22 Thread Max M

Tomasz Bielecki wrote:

Greetings to all,

my company is searching for a tool capable of producing good quality pdf's from 
page templates or documents on the fly.
This tool should somehow integrate with Zope. It could be Zope/Plone product, 
python script or even shell script invoked by Zope. It can be commercial (and 
probably will be).
I've searched the net, but found nothing that would met this requirements:
* professional css conversion: pdf should look almost exactly like source 
document, all css properties should be handled
* it should omit silently html elements, that are not supported (e.g. flash 
objects, applets) without crash or error
* links should be active (clickable) in pdf
* conversion of html forms to pdf forms would be nice to see
* conversion from flash objects or java applets to static images (somehow) 
would be nice to see too
* even putting flash objects into pdf was considered (i'm suspecting latest pdf 
format handles build-in flash, since adobe bought macromedia some time ago)

Every help that i can get would be appreciated.



With all those requirements I believe that every help you can get will 
be expensive ;-)



Many of your wishes are huge tasks. A project like that could easily run 
into hundreds of hours.


Building a custom tool using reportlab is probably the most feasible 
approach.



But most likely you should forget about Zope Plone compatibility and 
just find a tool that can convert all html to pdf, and find one that can 
be automated. Then make sure that your Plone output can be converted via 
that tool.


This turned up many interesting tools:
http://www.google.dk/search?q=html+pdf+conversion



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[Zope] Re: Render DTML inslide ZPT slot

2006-06-16 Thread Max M

thomas desvenain wrote:

and how can we transfer the namespace of the current zpt doing :

div tal:replace=structure context/some_dtml_method /

as we do in dtml writing :

dtml-var some_dtml_method



If it doesn't automatically you can most likely just write:

div tal:replace=structure python.context.some_dtml_method(here, 
request, **options) /



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[Zope-dev] Re: Time-based releases vs Bugfixing

2006-06-15 Thread Max M

Lennart Regebro wrote:


Zope2 development stood pretty much still for several years. We
are no picking up the slack, and yes, that means loads of rapid
changes. The alternative is stagnation and ultimately death.



Well, I must say that I enjoyed that. Being able to add new 
functionality in peace, instead of fixing already working stuff.


But then again, my interrest is in user functionality. Not in core 
development.


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[Zope-dev] Re: Time-based releases a good idea?

2006-06-14 Thread Max M

Andreas Jung wrote:

At some point you have to make a cut to get rid of old crap. Fixing the 
zLOG
issue is a straight forward approach with very little risks for the 
programmer and it won't take too much time..I don't see a major problem 
with that.



Except that it hits a sore spot for open source right on the head.

Products are developed for our customers, and they will keep working for 
those customers until they choose to upgrade.


In my case, a single product often starts out as a tool for a single 
customer, that I then make available. Usually I get a lot of 
(unreasonable) change request that I ignore :-s, but no bug fixes at 
all. That is fair enough, as I don't fix many bugs in other peoples 
products.


But the problem is that I don't fix bugs that doesn't exist for my 
customers. So deprecation warnings are ignored, until the product 
sponsor chooses upgrade.


If this is how OSS generally works, as I expect, then deprecations will 
break stuff that just doesn't get fixed. And new user will find it 
impossible to get all the products they need to work together, in the 
latest version.



But the problem is probably not the time based release, just that there 
is to few generations for deprecations.




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[Zope] Re: Questions on ZODB BTrees versus bsddb BTrees

2006-05-04 Thread Max M

Terry Jones wrote:

Chris == Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Chris ZCatalog ships as a standard part of Zope, no need to download.
Chris It's covered extensively in the zope book on Plope.org...

Chris Not everything is as hard as some people manage to make it ;-)

OK, thanks. I hope you'll agree though that the three excerpts below from
http://www.zope.org/Documentation/How-To/ZCatalogTutorial do give the clear
impression that ZCatalog is available as a separate standalo



Hoy cow that doc is old. Last modified on 2003/08/01.

That date was when the site was migrated from the previous version. So 
the real creation date is lost somewhere in space-time.


But ZCatalog has allways been part of Zope as long as I have developed 
in it. And that is since sometime in the nineties.



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[Zope] Re: How to convert characters that have special meaning in HTML to HTML character entities

2006-04-06 Thread Max M

Jonathan Bowlas wrote:

Hi All,

I have a string that contains a a
href=http://www.mywebaddress.com;link/a tag that I would like rendered
as HTML when output but it only seems to render in the html page like this
lt;a href=http://www.mywebaddress.comgt;linklt;/agt;

To replace the characters, I tried this in my TAL:

tal:block tal:define=d_stand row/STANDFIRST | nothing;
d_stand_replaced_chars python: (str(d_stand)).replace('gt;','');

p tal:condition=d_stand_replaced_chars
tal:content=d_stand_replaced_chars /
/tal:block

But it converted the 'gt;' I replaced with a '' back to a 'gt;' upon
rendering the string in a html page.

Any ideas how I can achieve this?


tal:content=structure d_stand_replaced_chars

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[Zope] Re: Zope + Apache on Quad Debian machine

2006-03-16 Thread Max M

Hugo Ramos wrote:

Has any1 tried this before? Can you point me to some documentation?
What's your experience? is it true that not doing this the 4 cpu's
will not be 100% used?

I think these questions are very ZOPE RELATED since I asked them in a
Zope mailing list don't you think?



Eh ... it doesn't become zope related because you ask it in a Zope 
group. Do you also ask how to write books on a Microsoft Word list?




I'm asking about Zope user/administrator experience related to Zope
use on a quad machine!!!

Of course if some1 tells me how to do it using OS related stuff this
is STILL Zope related!


Assigning a process to a cpu is a general os problem, and not really 
related to zope. Zope is just another process.


eg: http://www.google.com/search?q=cpu+affinity

plone.org is running on a dual cpu box, with one zeo and a zeo client, 
so clearly it can be done.




Hey... but thank you Jens for spending all that time writing an email
that doesn't help any1 at all...!!!


Sarkasm against a long time, and helpfull, list user will not help you 
any at all.



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[Zope] Re: Zope + Apache on Quad Debian machine

2006-03-16 Thread Max M

Chris Withers wrote:

Hugo Ramos wrote:

However, as an aside, how have you established that processor affinity 
is the problem here? I'd suggest looking at your disk and memory usage 
patterns. i/o wait or swap death could quite easily see your processors 
only hitting 30% even if the affinity is locked down exactly as you'd 
like...



With a 4 GB machine that is probably not a problem. You can usually run 
quite a few sites with that much memory.



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[Zope-dev] Re: How to delete an object given a path in Zope

2006-03-15 Thread Max M

Tres Seaver wrote:

Takahashi, Michael wrote:


I've actually tried that.  The problem I run into is that the folder in
my path contains a dash. When I call manage_delObjects on the following:


obj = context.restrictedTraverse('webcasts/courses/2005-2006/temp')


You need to get a reference to the container, and call
'manage_delObject' on it, e.g.:

  container = context.restrictedTraverse('webcasts/courses/2005-2006')
  container.manage_delObject('temp')


I usually just call aq_parent

   obj = context.restrictedTraverse('webcasts/courses/2005-2006/temp')
   container = obj.aq_parent
   container.manage_delObject('temp')

If you are deleting a list of objects in different folders you need to 
do a bit of tapdancing not to delete parents first. Like reverse sorting 
on the length of the physical path.


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[Zope] Re: About Archetypes

2006-03-15 Thread Max M

Sergio Gomez wrote:

Does anybody know a good tutorial on how to write archetypes from scratch?



The best approach today is using eg Poseidon for UML Community 
Edition, and then ArchegenXML to generate skeletons for your AT content 
types.


It is a bit longwinded until you figure it out, but very nice and really 
fast once you get to know it.


http://plone.org/documentation/tutorial/archgenxml-getting-started

http://gentleware.com/ (Poseidon)

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[Zope] Re: display results from external source in zpt

2006-03-15 Thread Max M

Dean Hale wrote:


Hi,

Apologies if this is easy to do, cannot find any help in the archives 
(but then again not sure what to search for)


We currently run a script on an external server which returns results 
depending on the userid of the user, which is added to the link below 
once the user logs into zope.


It works and displays what is needed, however i would like to display 
the results somehow within a page template rather than the user having 
to go elsewhere to see the results.


a href= tal:define=uid python:member.getProperty('uid') 
tal:attributes=href 
string:http://site.ac.uk/cgi-bin/tasks?uid=$uidfmt=plain;view results/a


Basically we would like to run above somehow but all results are 
returned within the same page.



This might be what the doctor ordered?

http://www.mxm.dk/products/public/mxmProxyTool/


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[Zope] Re: Zope + Apache on Quad Debian machine

2006-03-15 Thread Max M

Hugo Ramos wrote:

Yellow,

I'm using Zope+Apache on a 4 xeon's/4GB ram machine running Debian.
I've noticed that the CPU's never go beyond 30% top occupation... but
on rush hours the site takes too long to load...

I've been reading about process affinity and how it could speed up
everything by making zope run on 1 CPU, Apache on another and so on...

Has any1 tried this before? Can you point me to some documentation?
What's your experience? is it true that not doing this the 4 cpu's
will not be 100% used?


You can set up zope with zeo and then assign 3 zeo clients on different 
processors that shares the zeo server.


That should get you a lot of the way.


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[Zope] Re: Problems with .po files

2006-03-13 Thread Max M

Sergio Gomez wrote:

Hi, I am working in a Plone website, developing under windows, but
publishing under linux. My problem is that the .po files containing my
own translations work under windows, but they don't under linux, and I
do not know if it is something that I am not doing correctly.



It probably doesn't like windows line endings.

Try to use an editor that can convert to unix line endings.

Eg. Crimson Editor is free, and ok.


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[Zope-dev] Re: characters allowed in object IDs

2006-03-10 Thread Max M

yuppie wrote:

Hi!


As of Zope 2.8.2 (http://svn.zope.org/?rev=38738view=rev) the '@' 
character is allowed in object IDs.


Zope 3 does not allow object IDs starting with '@' because those names 
are reserved for views.


Five makes Zope 3 style views available in Zope 2, so IDs starting with 
'@' should be disallowed in Zope 2 as well.


If there are no objections I'll fix that in Zope 2.8, 2.9 and trunk.




There are several use cases for using an email as the user id. 
Especially when integrating to legacy systems.


So http://localhost/plone/Members/[EMAIL PROTECTED] should be legal. 
Otherwise it is a pita. (Until it gets ok to it in Plone I have a 
monkeypatch for Plone that allows this, and it's pretty simple.)


If you just want to prohibit id.startswith('@') it is fine by me.
But prohibiting id.find('@') != -1 would suck.

I cannot at the top of my head think of a case where @name is used... 
But if anyone else knows about it. Please speak up.



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[Zope-dev] Re: characters allowed in object IDs

2006-03-10 Thread Max M

yuppie wrote:

Dieter Maurer wrote:


To support WebDAV as widely as possible, I would prefer to
get rid of all id restrictions. I do not like to see
new restrictions emerging...



You just don't like it or do you know a better alternative?

We need a way to make sure that object IDs can't mask browser views and 
resources. The current solution in Zope 3 is to reserve names starting 
with '+' and '@' for resources and views.


Compared to Zope 2.8.1 and earlier this is no new restriction.



But that doesn't mean that the restriction was good in the first place.

Naturally there will be some insane developers out there doing webdav, 
with @ having a special meaning, that will bite us in the ... future.


Leading '_' gave problems. '@' in ids has caused problems. So there is 
no reason to expect that a leading '@' won't at some time.


Only trouble is that it will be a problem in Zope 3 too.

Now that Twisted is put in front of Plone, we can also expect it to be a 
problem when Zope is used as a server for other services.


Eg. mirroring an imap folder structure from exchange. Which I am 
allready having some fun with in mxmImapClient. :-s


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[Zope] Re: Upgrading to Zope 2.9.1

2006-03-10 Thread Max M

Chris Withers wrote:

Dieter Maurer wrote:


It does now -- at least for FSPythonScripts when you are on a *nix
platform and your files contain DOS lineends.



Does this only affect (FS)PythonScripts or all disk based python code?



There has been a bug in Zope since ages, where multiline python in tal 
fails if it has Window line endings.


Eg. this will fail with windows line endings:

div tal:content=content python:' '.join(['oh',
   'bugger'])

This does not have multiline Python in the tal expression and will not fail:

div tal:attributes=title string:a title;
 id python: '42';

I have no idea if it is a manifestation of the same problem.


Since no one with the knowledge of the ZPT is willing to fix it, I did 
it for myself by setting up my svn rules to linux line endings ...



But it is clearly an annoying bug. Imagine if plain Python worked that 
way :-(



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[Zope] Re: Need Urgent Help

2006-03-08 Thread Max M

Andrew Milton wrote:

+---[ Andreas Jung ]--
| 
| But learn to post before posting again.

| Subjects like need urgent help + cross-postings are the first step
| for a consultant to throw such a posting into the trashcan.

Actually we rub our hands together and triple our rate d8)



LOL!


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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Two visions?

2006-03-04 Thread Max M

Rocky Burt wrote:

On Fri, 2006-03-03 at 09:30 +0100, Max M wrote:


Benji York wrote:

If we want people outside of the zope community to use these components, 
they should not have the word zope anywhere in their name.  If it says 
zope people will *always* assume it is for use only with/inside Zope 
(Zope 2 more often than not).



Would we want people outside the community to do this?



We want as much as the python developer as possible to use pieces of
zope.  This means those pieces of zope will have had greater testing,
more reviewing, and ultimately, more people contributing.



I am *not* against other developers using bits of Zope. So I am sort of 
being the devils advocate here.


But everytime it is mentioned, it is allways mentioned as a purely good 
thing. But it is in fact not without cost.


Eg. conflicting interrests of 'external' and 'internal' users, or code 
that becomes more complex because of different use cases.


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Re: [Zope-dev] Two visions?

2006-03-03 Thread Max M

Geoff Davis wrote:

No, I think I understood you.  I was being sloppy in my use of language. 
I should have said something more like Zope 3 then becomes an application

server built around the Zed library.


Or Zed is the part of Zope that can be used without Zope.



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[Zope-dev] Re: Two visions

2006-03-03 Thread Max M

Stefane Fermigier wrote:

Strange how (most of) the Plone people seem to be so quick in willing to
sacrifice the Zope brand :(



In out world Zope doesn't have a brand. Plone has a it. Most of our 
customers doesn't have a clue as to what Zope is.


As far as I can tell, Zope is a developers brand. No end users 
(customers) starts up with Zope anymore. Rather they go straight to 
Plone/CPS etc.


Splitting up Zope to let people use seperate pieces of Zope aka Zed is 
not a valid reason. Good software practise is a valid reason. But 
catering for those few developers that wants to use just a few pieces is 
probably not worth the effort.



Zope didn't become really popular before Plone/CPS etc. In my case 
customers are calling and asking for Plone solutions. Nobody where ever 
asking for Zope solutions! You had to push hard to make the customer use 
Zope instead of .asp/Java etc.



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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Two visions?

2006-03-03 Thread Max M

Benji York wrote:

Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:


Good point. There's the question: Does this zed thing need a different
name at all? If we want other people to pick it up, then it seems like a
good idea to distinguish it from Zope-the-app-server. Paul seems to
suggest that in his response.

How about zopelib?


If we want people outside of the zope community to use these components, 
they should not have the word zope anywhere in their name.  If it says 
zope people will *always* assume it is for use only with/inside Zope 
(Zope 2 more often than not).



Would we want people outside the community to do this?

Would it ever be an audience bigger than 5-10 developers somewhere who 
would even have different goals than the Zope community.


It is difficult enough right now to herd this flock of cats called Zope 
developers. Why would we want to make it even more difficult by adding 
other communities?


Personally I could not care less if Page Templates are used in 
TurboGears and other frameworks.


Splitting up software into chunks with few dependencies should be done 
because it is good software practice. Not to favour other communities.


We should rather make a cool stack that will include people in Zope. 
Please remember It is *still* the sexiest technology out there!


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[Zope-dev] Re: Two visions

2006-02-27 Thread Max M

Dario Lopez-Kästen wrote:

Max M said the following on 2006-02-27 17:26:


Jim Fulton wrote:


2) In an alternate vision, Zope 2 evolves to Zope 5.




Zope 2 is complicated! It has too many layers of everything.



read the full sentence that Jim wrote:

  2) In an alternate vision, Zope 2 evolves to Zope 5.
 
...
 
   Note that Zope 5 will leverage Zope 3 technologies to allow a
   variety of configurations, including a Zope 2-like configuration
   with implicit acquisition and through-the-web development, and a
   Zope 3-like configuration that looks a lot like the current Zope
   3 application server.  Maybe, there will be a configuration that
   allows Zope 2 and Zope 3 applications to be combined to a
   significant degree.

In this scenario I cannot see how much of the old ways of zope2 remain 
(unless I have a totally unrealistic view of what Jim proposes). zope 2 
or zop3 become an issue of configuring which components/parts to use.



But he also says:

   - Zope 3 doesn't have to reproduce all Zope 2 features.

Which i fear could mean that the Zope 2 stack will hang in there for ever.

I am pretty shure that is not what he meant meant to imply, I just 
wanted to make my view clear.



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Re: [ZWeb] zope web status report 2006-02-06

2006-02-09 Thread Max M

Chris Withers wrote:


Tonico Strasser wrote:

IMHO, the most important change for reducing visual design 
complexity, is to get rid of the /Members section, including log 
in/log out, and the whole TTW content management system.


I think it's much easier to add and update content with SVN. (This 
would also effectively eliminate the SPAM problem.)



Although you loose the place that many people use to store their 
products for distribution :-/


Oh well, if this new thing actually works, I guess the trade off is 
worth it...




If we cannot make it work in Zope 2 or 3, maybe we should use rails ;-)

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[Zope] Re: Packing data.fs programmatically

2006-01-31 Thread Max M

Chris Withers wrote:

Reinoud van Leeuwen wrote:



I do it though the webinterface with a wget from the crontab:

@daily cd /some_path/zeo_server/var  \
   cp Data.fs Data.fs.pre_pack_backup  \
   /usr/local/bin/wget \
  
'http://myzopeserver/Control_Panel/Database/manage_pack?days:float=0'\

   --http-user=special_user \
   --http-passwd='some_password' \
   --spider \cp Data.fs Data.fs.post_pack_backup



Oh, ouch ouch bad fragile pain failure suffering...

URL whacking is evil and must be punished...


What is the better way then? ZEO and ordinary Python scripts?


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[Zope] Re: Zope vs Plone: performance issues!

2006-01-24 Thread Max M

Chris Withers wrote:


Me? I couldn't _possibly_ comment ;-)


Mr. Chris FU Withers, you might very will think so.


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[Zope-dev] Re: [RfC] Removal of old stuff in Zope 2.10

2005-12-21 Thread Max M

Andreas Jung wrote:

Hi,



- Gadfly(DA) - do we really need this? We discussed this already. In my
  opinion the purpose of Gadfly is only educational but nothing that one
  really needs or uses for production. It could be removed and made
  available for download on zope.org.



-1

From time to time I teach classes on Zope. Often to people with an sql 
legacy. Most companies don't have a computer lab with similar machines, 
so often the educational software must be installed on the participants 
own machine. Which can be of any platform.


Using Gadfly as an educational tool is *very* practical. Eg. they can 
install Zope, and begin using sql at once.


Having to install postgres etc. just to teach about database connections 
etc. would be really impractical.



If there is another practical way to do it, that would be fine too. I 
don't know about sqllite. But if it's more difficulte than dropping a 
package into a directory it would be bad.


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[Zope] Re: Can HTTP and WebDAV share port 80?

2005-12-08 Thread Max M

Michael Dexter wrote:


Hello,

It appears that Apache and IIS put both HTTP and WebDAV/HTTP traffic 
over the same port. Can Zope do the same? Why? Why not?


What I usually do is to create a RewriteRule in apache, that rewrites to 
the dav port.


RewriteRule ^/webdav(.*) 
http://localhost:1981/VirtualHostBase/http/www.example.com:80/plone_instance/VirtualHostRoot/_vh_webdav/$1 
[P,L]


So that the webdav port can be gotten to at:

http://www.example.com:80/webdav


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[Zope] Method cache (Memoize) for Zope

2005-10-09 Thread Max M

Has anybody written a Memoize-like decorator for Zope?

I imagine that it could be a nice feature to have a standard decorator 
for Zope that would cache results in a _v_ volatile variable.


I usually do it a bit like this::

def _cache_it(self, meth, *args, **kwargs):
cache_name = '_v_%s' % meth.__name__
if not hasattr(self, cache_name):
result = meth(*args, **kwargs)
setattr(self, cache_name, result)
return getattr(self, cache_name)


def _some_function(self):
# do expensive calculations and return result
return 42


def some_function(self, *args, **kwargs):
Returns cached values
return self._cache_it(self._some_function, *args, **kwargs)

But I guess that there must be someone who has allready written a more 
generic way to do it via generators?



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[Zope] Re: Using the set object within page templates

2005-09-27 Thread Max M

Floyd May wrote:

How can I use a set object within a page template?

When I attempt to create a set (e.g. tal:define=myset
python:set(some_list)), zope complains that the name 'set' is not
defined.


If you only need to read from some native python objects, you can make a 
simple wrapper. You can wrap a set() in this class and return it from 
python.


_marker = []

class Zello:


Zello (Zellophane)
A minimal wrapper for viewing native python objects in pagetemplates.

If you try to view attributes on simple Python objects you get a 
Permission

error. This is pretty simple to fix in your own objects by setting:

__allow_access_to_unprotected_subobjects__ = 1

For some built in objects you cannot do this. This class just puts a
transparent wrapper around such objects::

wrapped = Zello(datetime(2005, 10, 12))

So you can write this zpt code:

span tal:replace=wrapped/year /

If you wrap a Zope object with it, you basically remove all security
checkcs. So don't do that.


__allow_access_to_unprotected_subobjects__ = 1

def __init__(self, obj):
self._obj = obj

def __getattr__(self, attr, default=_marker):
if default is _marker:
return getattr(self._obj, attr)
else:
return getattr(self._obj, attr, default)

def __getitem__(self, key):
return self._obj[key]




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[Zope] JSON for Ajax applications

2005-09-23 Thread Max M

I don't know how many has seen this, but it's pretty cool.

JSON (JavaScript Object Notation) is a lightweight data-interchange format.

http://www.crockford.com/JSON/index.html

It is used for Ajax applications to transfer data instead of xml. It 
uses repr() versions of standard python objects like dicts, lists, 
string, numbers etc. to transfer data.


It is really simple to generate for Python programmers, so it is very 
simple to use in Zope too.



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[Zope] Re: JSON for Ajax applications

2005-09-23 Thread Max M

Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote:

Max M wrote:



JSON (JavaScript Object Notation) is a lightweight data-interchange
format.


this is used at 100% and more in cpsskins for Zope3 (cf. z3lab.org). You
might also have a look at Jim Washington's 'jsonserver' for Zope3 and
its implementation for Zope2 http://zif.hill-street.net/jsonserver



I read the posts about jsonserver, but somehow it didn't register on my 
radar.


I read it as Johnson-server so i dismissed it, thinking it was some 
kind of personal project :-/


But it looks increasingly sexy ...


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[Zope] Re: Zope iso-8859-1 to utf-8

2005-09-13 Thread Max M

Pascal Peregrina wrote:

Hi,
 
I have been running a Zope installation for 2 years, so there are now lots

of objects, properties, etc...
 
I would like to know what are the possible issues I may have to face if I

change the default encoding for iso-8859-1 to utf-8 in ZMI.


You must write a script that converts any property on any object in your 
site that is latin-1 to utf-8.


So first find all objects you use. See what types they are.

Find all text and string attributes on those opjects.

Write a function that converts from latin to utf and run that on every 
object.


The hard part will be finding all the attributes, but perhaps you can 
write a method that can help find those properties for you using 
introspection.



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[Zope] Re: Can I use datetime and timedelta in zope?

2005-09-05 Thread Max M

jai alai wrote:

Kaixo;

I try to use datetime and timedelta in Zope and
returns a error

Error Type: ImportError
Error Value: import of datetime is unauthorized

I try use datetime and timedelta in an External Method
and returns an error to 

Error Type: ImportError
Error Value: No module named datetime

There's any way to import this module in Zope or I
must create a new product for it.



Use the DateTime module in Zope. If you need datetime and timedelta, you 
can convert between DateTime and datetime with (untested):



from DateTime import DateTime
from datetime import tzinfo

ZERO = timedelta(0)
HOUR = timedelta(hours=1)
STDOFFSET = timedelta(seconds = -_time.timezone)
if _time.daylight:
DSTOFFSET = timedelta(seconds = -_time.altzone)
else:
DSTOFFSET = STDOFFSET
DSTDIFF = DSTOFFSET - STDOFFSET

class LocalTimezone(tzinfo):


Timezone of the machine where the code is running


def utcoffset(self, dt):
if self._isdst(dt):
return DSTOFFSET
else:
return STDOFFSET

def dst(self, dt):
if self._isdst(dt):
return DSTDIFF
else:
return ZERO

def tzname(self, dt):
return _time.tzname[self._isdst(dt)]

def _isdst(self, dt):
tt = (dt.year, dt.month, dt.day,
  dt.hour, dt.minute, dt.second,
  dt.weekday(), 0, -1)
stamp = _time.mktime(tt)
tt = _time.localtime(stamp)
return tt.tm_isdst  0


def dt2DT(dt):
Converts Python datetime to Zope DateTime
try:
# convert dt to local timezone
ltz = dt.astimezone(LocalTimezone())
return DateTime(*ltz.timetuple()[:6])
except:
return DateTime(dt.year, dt.month, dt.day, 0, 0, 0)


def DT2dt(DT):

Converts Zope DateTime to Python datetime, Zope DateTime is allways utc

return datetime.fromtimestamp(DT.timeTime(), LocalTimezone())



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[Zope] Re: Adding a zope product

2005-09-02 Thread Max M

Paul Hendrick wrote:

Hi all,
i've just started with zope, and i'm trying to write a filesystem
product, so i can have a project in svn and work on it in the
filesystem.
I've followed the guide at zope.org for creating a minimal product, but
can't get this to show up in the list of products.



If you are starting from scratch learning Zope, and you don't want to 
use one of the frameworks, it would be far better to start on Zope 3


It's better coded, easier to understand, more futureproof and probably 
better documented.


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[Zope] Re: Adding a zope product

2005-09-02 Thread Max M

Peter Bengtsson wrote:

you registered the manage_addminimal function for creating the actual
object, but what about the ZMI form that lets call manage_addminimal?



It is not necessary in this case, as the function sets the id and adds 
the instance.



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[Zope] Re: Sharing global data between threads / locking a method

2005-06-28 Thread Max M

Dieter Maurer wrote:

Max M wrote at 2005-6-27 15:53 +0200:


...
So in a external method/module I have a function like this:

BUSY_STATE = 0
def sync_in_progress(busy=None):
   global BUSY_STATE
   if busy is None:
   return BUSY_STATE
   else:
   BUSY_STATE = busy



Note that this is likely to fail.

The module containing an External Method is maintained in the
ZODB cache. As a consequence, each worker gets its own copy
and you cannot synchronize via global variables of such modules.

Use a true Python module (note that Zope does not import
the source file of an External Method; therefore, it is
not inside a module in the Python sense) when you need
synchronization via global module level variables.


I wrote a small tool and ended up with this:

BUSY_STATE = 0

def sync_in_progress(busy=None):
global BUSY_STATE
print ''
print 'BUSY_STATE:', BUSY_STATE, 'busy:', busy
print ''
if not busy is None:
BUSY_STATE = busy
return BUSY_STATE

class Syncer(UniqueObject, PropertyManager,
   SimpleItem.SimpleItem, ActionProviderBase):

def redirect(self, url):
self.REQUEST.RESPONSE.redirect(url)

def reset(self):
reset
return repr(sync_in_progress(0))

def sync(self):
Syncs
print '##'
print 'sync start'
if not sync_in_progress():
sync_in_progress(1)
self.redirect('%s/sync_action' % self.absolute_url())
else:
return 'SYNC: in progress'

def sync_action(self):
sync_action
# do stuff
sync_in_progress(1)
self.sync_calendar()
self.sync_email()
sync_in_progress(0)
return 'SYNC: done'

It doesn't seem to work without the redirect. Which is the reason for 
having both a sync and a sync_action method.


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[Zope-dev] Re: Problems with PageTemplates on Zope 2.8

2005-06-27 Thread Max M

Morten W. Petersen wrote:

Hi,

I have an application called the Issue Dealer which I'm porting to Zope
2.8.  However, whenever I try to access a PageTemplate which makes use
of a page template macro it just hangs and consumes all available CPU.

Any ideas what could be wrong here, or how I could debug it?



Does the server or the client hang?

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[Zope] Sharing global data between threads / locking a method

2005-06-27 Thread Max M
I have a synkronisation script that I run every 10 minutes via wget from 
a cron job.


Sometimes the script runs longer than 10 minutes.

In that case I would like to return a page to wget, but not run the 
actual script.


So in a external method/module I have a function like this:

BUSY_STATE = 0
def sync_in_progress(busy=None):
global BUSY_STATE
if busy is None:
return BUSY_STATE
else:
BUSY_STATE = busy

The idea is that BUSY_STATE is a global value shared between all 
threads, and if the sync_test() function below is called while it is 
allready running in another thread, it will just return 'Sync allready 
in progress'.


I then wrap the actual sync code like this:

def long_test_function(): # just to kill time
t = Timer('Loop time')
for i in xrange(10**7):
d = 7*8
e = 7*8
print t.time()
return d


def sync_test(self):
if not sync_in_progress():
sync_in_progress(1)
long_test_function() # placeholder for the real sync code
sync_in_progress(0)
return 'Sync done'
else:
return 'Sync allready in progress'

But it seems that the new method merely waits until the first one has 
completed.


So it allways returns 'Sync done' and calls long_test_function()

What am I misunderstanding here? Isn't it the right way to share global 
data? Or is there some kind of locking going on under my nose that I am 
to blind to see.


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[Zope] Re: Newbie Questions - many-many relationships? Zope 2 or 3?

2005-06-16 Thread Max M

Jim Vine wrote:


Having a look through past threads on this mailing
list I've noticed a few references to mxmRelations
(http://www.zope.org/Members/maxm/products/mxmRelations)
which seems to match up - have I got the right end of
the stick? Before I jump in with this I'd appreciate
any advice or guidance you could provide - it'd be
greatly appreciated.


Use Plone and references instead ;-)


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[Zope] Objects loosing persistency

2005-06-14 Thread Max M
I have a Plone web app where the users are complaining that they can 
create objects, edit titles etc.


But when they return to the objects a little later, they are gone.

The same behaviour as when an object doesn't have its _p_changed = 1 
set, it seems to me.


So I just wonder if anybody knows what can be causing this?

It is not programming error as it happens with stable products. It is 
only this particular site that has the problem.


There are reletively many objects in the system, so I suspect it to be 
some kind of conflict with a lot of reads blocking for the writing to 
the ZODB?


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[Zope-dev] Re: BTrees and Persistance

2005-06-01 Thread Max M

Yair Benita wrote:


# I would really really like this to work
T[1].add(6)
T._p_changed = True
get_transaction().commit()


Why not use 'IOSet' in the BTrees package?

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[Zope] Re: Sending mail with attachments via Python

2005-05-03 Thread Max M
Kirk Strauser wrote:
Please don't misunderstand me.  I'm not complaining, and if that's what I've 
got to do then so be it.  I'm just a little surprised - that's all.

Sending emails correctly is a very tricky, and the RFC 822 standard is a 
beast.

You cannot really blame either Python, nor dtml or Zope for that.
Python has a very nice email module, but even that can be difficult to 
use. Especially when using attachments and non-ascii encodings.

Dtmls mail handling is limited to a specific set of problems. If you 
want to go outside those, you need to roll your own.

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[Zope] Memorysegment error in Zope

2005-04-26 Thread Max M
I am writing an Imap client. The Imap server (Groupwise) I connect to is 
really slow at accepting logins.

So I have made a connection pool where I store the open connections to 
the server.

But once in a while I get a memory segment error on the server and it 
crashes.

I suspect what happens is that a connection has been idle for to long, 
ad the connection dropped by the imap server. Which might cause some 
memory to be freed that is then accessed when I call noop().

It could also be be some kind of threading problem.
Does any of you hav an ide as to how I can find out? I am not used to 
these kind of problems, having been spoiled by Python for too long.

regards Max M
I have attached the connection pool code in the bottom.
##
# a borg/singleton for pooling connections.
# Necessary as login can take a looong time
class ConnectionPool:
__shared_state = {}
def __init__(self):
self.__dict__ = self.__shared_state
def getConnection(self, server_uri, user, password):
if not hasattr(self, 'connections'):
self.connections = {}
user_key = (server_uri, user, password)
user_connections = self.connections.setdefault(user_key, [])
# first try and return a connection from the pool
for i in range(len(user_connections)-1, -1, -1):
# a connection can be timed out,
# try noop to see if it's still open
connection = user_connections[i]
try:
connection.noop()
return user_connections.pop(i)
except: # else login again
user_connections.pop(i)
# if no usable connections in the pool,
# create new one and return it
return Imap4Connector(server_uri, user, password)
def release(self, connection):
# take the connection and put it in the pool
user_key = (connection.server_uri, connection.user, \ 

connection.password)
user_connections = self.connections.setdefault(user_key, [])
user_connections.append(connection)
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[Zope] Re: Memorysegment error in Zope

2005-04-26 Thread Max M
Andreas Jung wrote:
I suspect what happens is that a connection has been idle for to long, ad
the connection dropped by the imap server. Which might cause some memory
to be freed that is then accessed when I call noop().
So it would be (group)wise to ask the vendor (Novell)?
Zope and Groupwise are on different machines, so I don't think I can 
blame Groupwise. Imap servers are supposed to loose the connection after 
a set time. eg. 20 minutes.

It is most likely something that happens in the imap library. Perhaps a 
socket being freed and garbage collected, which I then try to access 
from the pool.

My connection pooling is just a thin wrapper around the standard imap 
library. So I guess I should try to find the problem there.


Looking at the code I see nothing that could help from figuring
out some server problems or doing some remote healing.
Ok. I will need to do some deeper debugging. Nothing is more fun than 
debugging something with a 20 minutes timeout :-s

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[Zope] Re: How to convert Zope instance charset?

2005-04-24 Thread Max M
Daniel Dekany wrote:
Sunday, April 24, 2005, 4:22:10 PM, Andreas Jung wrote:

Zope itself gives a method for sorting strings:
DocumentTemplate.sequence.sort. Many of the products relies on that for
sorting. And that sorts UTF-8 incorrectly

Then it will probably be easiest to just patch it up to sort correctly. 
Or file a bug in the collector.


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[Zope] Re: How to convert Zope instance charset?

2005-04-24 Thread Max M
Andreas Jung wrote:

Daniel Dekany wrote:
Sunday, April 24, 2005, 4:22:10 PM, Andreas Jung wrote:

Zope itself gives a method for sorting strings:
DocumentTemplate.sequence.sort. Many of the products relies on that for
sorting. And that sorts UTF-8 incorrectly
Then it will probably be easiest to just patch it up to sort correctly.
Or file a bug in the collector.
A candidate for a reject. I pointed out that the sort method can not smell
your encoding. If you deal with encodings and deal with it in the right way
but don't expect that the underlying framework can smell or guess what kind
of encoding your application uses. Otherwise: use Python unicode strings
*only* and *overall*.

Yes. I was thinking in the line of a monkeypatch of the sort method, 
that could be used in eg. Plone.

It should be very possible for it to look up the charset under 
properties, and decode strings from that before sorting.

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[Zope] DateTime(), locale, summertime etc.

2005-04-07 Thread Max M
I have a product where I convert some external datetimes to zope 
DateTime() objects. I save them as UTC as zopes DateTime does by default.

But when these are rendered, the time is offset by two hours.
A few weeks ago, it wasn't that bad. It was only one hour, but then 
summertime came along ;-)

So it seems that there is some magic going on where Zope tries to take 
locale and summertime into account.

Is this configurable somewhere. In Zope, Python, as a command switch or 
in a config file?

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[Zope] Re: DateTime(), locale, summertime etc.

2005-04-07 Thread Max M
Max M wrote:
I have a product where I convert some external datetimes to zope 
DateTime() objects. I save them as UTC as zopes DateTime does by default.

But when these are rendered, the time is offset by two hours.

Ok. I was unclear here.
I convert from datetime objects (python) to DateTime (zope) objects.
The datetime objects are in UTC format. So are the DateTime objects.
On an external system I enter a time of 11:00. The external system then 
saves the value as 9:00 UTC, which is correct. Taking summertime and 
time zone offset into account.

When I convert to DateTime objects, they are saved as 9:00 Universal. 
So that is correct too.

The DateTime objects are then displayed in Zope/Plone in UTC time.
I would expect Zope to represent them in the systems locale 'danish' and 
display them as 11:00

I have set the locale danish directive in my zope.conf, but that 
doens't change anything.

Does anybody have an idea as to what to try out next?
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[Zope] Re: Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Max M
Chris Withers wrote:
Jim Fulton wrote:

I think ZPT and python scripts are much more useful tools for newbies 
who will often enter with a scripting rather than OO frame of mind.
Wouldn't that be ZPT and adapters ;-)
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[Zope] Re: DateTime(), locale, summertime etc.

2005-04-07 Thread Max M
Max M wrote:
When I convert to DateTime objects, they are saved as 9:00 Universal. 
So that is correct too.
Ok. Turned out that I have misunderstood zopes DateTime().
It saves in UTC, but it still needs a timezone.
So converting datetime objects to the local timezone and then converting 
to DateTime objects also as local timezone did the trick.

hmmm
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[Zope] Re: Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-05 Thread Max M
Jim Fulton wrote:
We could choose to deprecate ZClasses.  If we deprecated them in
Zope 2.8, they would still work in Zope 2.8 and Zope 2.9, but
their support would be removed in Zope 2.10.  Would anyone be upset
if this happened?
They are evil, they are bad. They lead newcommers down a blind road.
Please do drop them.
Besides, I think that most people are starting up on Zope using a cms
like Plone, and in there I believe they go straight for archetypes.
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[Zope-dev] Re: brain.getObject and traversal

2005-03-31 Thread Max M
Chris Withers wrote:
Well, in 2.8, new behaviour is expected, right?
I really passionately believe that we should not be returnining None in 
Zope 2.8, and since 2.8 hasn't quite hit beta yet I'm very keen to see 
it fixed asap.

Any objections?
Most of my queries, where I need to wake up objects, has the form::
brains = catalog(portal_type='Document')
objects = []
for brain in brains:
try:
obj = brain.getObject()
if not obj is None:
objects.append(obj)
except:
pass
So it will not break any of my code, and I guess that most do something
similar.

Another thing is that I think that this pattern is so common that the
catalog should have a query method where brains are automatically
converted to objects. Like:
objects = catalog.getObjects(portal_type='Document')
That would be a handy time saver.
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[Zope-dev] Re: Problems with non-zope object attribute access

2005-03-11 Thread Max M
Dario Lopez-Kästen wrote:
but I still get
 The container has no security assertions. Access to 'lname' of 
(Products.pdbapi.person.Person instance at 0x03449DA0) denied. 

errors when I try to access the attributes of a person object in the list.
What about wrapping them with something like?
class AccessWrapper:
__allow_access_to_unprotected_subobjects = 1
def __init__(self, obj):
self._obj = obj
def __getattr__(self, attr):
return getattr(self._obj)
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[Zope-dev] Re: Problems with non-zope object attribute access

2005-03-11 Thread Max M
Dario Lopez-Kästen wrote:
I have tried the following in my product class:
def _zopify(self, o):
# wrap object o in a an Acquisition.ImplicitAcquisitionWrapper
# add __allow_access_to_unprotected_subobjects = 1
# Return o
o.__allow_access_to_unprotected_subobjects = 1
return Acquisition.ImplicitAcquisitionWrapper(o, self)
and in my product code I do this.
plist = get_non_zope_person_object_list(...)
return [self._zopify(person) for person in plist ]

btw. if setting __allow_access_to_unprotected_subobjects = 1 on the 
object doesn't work, the ImplicitAcquisitionWrapper most likely sets it 
to something else.

have you tried changing the order?
w = Acquisition.ImplicitAcquisitionWrapper(o, self)
w.__allow_access_to_unprotected_subobjects = 1
return w
--
hilsen/regards Max M, Denmark
http://www.mxm.dk/
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[Zope-dev] Re: ZCatalog getObject broken

2005-03-11 Thread Max M
Roché Compaan wrote:
The rest of the discussion basically boils down to figure out if the
user is allowed to access C or not.
Hasn't it been raised allready that there is no way of knowing that?
A single method might be public, but the rest of the object is hidden.
What to do then? Just ignore the public method and use the objects 
overall visibility?

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[Zope-dev] Re: ZCatalog getObject broken

2005-03-03 Thread Max M
Roché Compaan wrote:
I'm unsure about the security check in the patch below - I copied the
way restrictedTraverse does it. I read through validate in the default
security policy but it is one of those methods where all the security
implications doesn't fit in your head all at once.
--- CatalogBrains.py~   2004-03-23 22:27:23.0 +0200
+++ CatalogBrains.py2005-03-03 09:43:48.0 +0200
@@ -47,7 +47,11 @@
 (i.e., it was deleted or moved without recataloging), or if the
user is
 not authorized to access an object along the path.
 
-return self.aq_parent.restrictedTraverse(self.getPath(), None)
+obj = self.aq_parent.unrestrictedTraverse(self.getPath(), None)
+if obj and securityManager.validate(obj, obj, None, None):
+return obj
+else:
+return None

There is a method deep down in Zope somewhere called:
self.authenticated_has_access(obj)
I cannot find the definition on my local Windows install, so I assume 
it's defined in some c code somewhere.

Unfortunately there is no docs on the web either. Though there must have 
been at some time, as I would otherwise never have found it.

Hmm... that is odd.
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[Zope-dev] Re: CatalogBrains since Zope2.7.1b1

2004-06-23 Thread Max M
Eric Brun wrote:
Hi,
I have a problem with 'getObject' method of CatalogBrains class on Zope271b1 : it's 
return None. But with a Zope2.7.0
my object is correctly find and returned. The permissions are right.
Probably an object has been deleted without being uncatalogued. This 
happens often. Either reindex the catalog, or take the None's into 
account in your code. The latter is the safest approach.

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[Zope-dev] Re: [ZODB-Dev] Re: BTrees strangeness (was Zope 2.X BIG Session problems - blocker - our site dies - need help of experience Zope developer, please)

2004-05-18 Thread Max M
Andrea Patuzzo wrote:
We are now randomly getting this kind of error:

Note: once the error happens, zope has to be restarted to function again.
Before applying patches we were getting get errors (instead of
__setitem__) and we just had to close browser to get back to work.

That's right. Under Plone 2.0 and Zope 2.7 I had the same kind of 
problem. But when I restarted the browser it would be solved.

That could point in the direction of a session id being somehow involved.
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[Zope-dev] How To run current Zope 2 3 from CVS on Windows

2004-05-03 Thread Max M
As I said, I would write a How-To in getting Zope 3 up and running on 
Windows, given the binaries that Tim has made.

http://www.mxm.dk/papers/run-z3-cvs-wthout-compiler/

Feel free to comment.

regards Max M

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Re: Should we require windows users to use tools that honor Unix line endings? (Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] ATTENTION! cvs to subversion transitiontomorrow)

2004-04-28 Thread Max M
Jim Fulton wrote:

I think the real answer, the answer that the svn (and arch) developers 
believe
in the heart of hearts is that windows users should be using tools that 
understand,
well, understand and always produce Unix line endings.

Is it practical to require windows users to use tools that understand 
and produce
Unix line endings?


It is not a problem, but it would be odd. Python don't make me do it. 
Why then should the version control system do it?

It's not difficult to find a Windows editor that understands unix line 
endings, but it would be very easy to forget to ocasionally convert dos 
files to unix.

regards Max M

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[Zope-dev] Re: Demonstration subversion repository created

2004-04-28 Thread Max M
Jim Fulton wrote:
I've done a conversion of a snapshot of the CVS database from yesterday.
This is just to allow people to play with subversion and see what the 
respoitory
might look like when we do cut over.

To browse the respository:

  http://svn.zope.org/


It seems to have some kind of dns problem?

regards Max M

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[Zope-dev] Re: Demonstration subversion repository created

2004-04-28 Thread Max M
Jim Fulton wrote:

Hm, I can get to it from a machine outside of ZC or Zope.org.

Is anyone else haveing troubles getting to it?
Now it's back up.

C:\ping svn.zope.org

Pinger cvs.zope.org [12.155.117.30] med 32 byte data:

Svar fra 12.155.117.30: byte=32 tid=100ms TTL=53
Svar fra 12.155.117.30: byte=32 tid=100ms TTL=53
Svar fra 12.155.117.30: byte=32 tid=100ms TTL=53
Svar fra 12.155.117.30: byte=32 tid=110ms TTL=53
Ping-statistikker for 12.155.117.30:
Pakker: Sendt = 4, modtaget = 4, tabt = 0 (0% tab),
Gennemsnitlig tid for rundtur i millisekunder:
Mindst = 100ms, størst =  110ms, gennemsnitlig =  102ms
regards Max M

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[Zope-dev] Re: Demonstration subversion repository created

2004-04-28 Thread Max M
Max M wrote:

Now it's back up.
And it works fine. Text files are in Unix format. As expected.

regards Max M

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[Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-25 Thread Max M
Joachim Werner wrote:

The problem of Zope 2 is - don't kill me for saying that - Plone. Plone 
and its foundations in CMF have created a large momentum around a 
terribly horrible code base. Believe me or not, almost everything gets 
more complicated with CMF/Plone than with plain Zope. Building a 
framework on top of a broken framework on top of an ageing framework 
that is hardly documented isn't a very good idea after all.


You are somewhat right. It's an absolute bitch to write Products for 
Plone. But it does shows what is actually needed for Zope to work as 
intended.

In plain Z2 You could write a lot of products, and they would all work 
fine on your site. But others could not easily download and use/try out 
the products.

What Plone really is a good example of, is the necessity of a practical 
reference implementation that all content types and tools can be tested 
up against.

It the light house that everything is steering towards. I believe that's 
the reason for it's succes.

It's hard to put a finger on exactly why it has become one. But 
obviously it has reached critical mass of being good enough for a lot 
of things. It is also flexible enough to be changed beyond recognition.

So both novice users and developers can use it with a lot of succes.

A short list of things that I think makes it an end user succes (even 
advanced developers are end users of others products):

The skin

Notably main_template.pt  plone.css. It is absolute paramount to have a 
flexible template/styleguide to write up against. It has to be pretty 
enough to be used in production site out of the box, and easy to change.

The CMS' skin apparently wasn't good enough.

A site can be layed ot in umpteen ways, but the Plone guys has said 
this is how we think it should look and function, and put a working 
example out there. Apparently that has been a very succesfull strategy.

There is also several layers at which it can be changed. From 
stylesheets to programming. So it can look completely different. But 
ther reference is allways there as a guide.

Installation

It is easy to install and try out new products, and they all work 
together, and all use the same skin. So if you install a new product it 
automatically has the look and feel of your site. Even though the site 
is heavily skinned.

Development process
---
Quick and non-bureaucratic. The Plone developers are pretty open for 
suggestions, and hang out on irc and maillists.

There is a shared repository (the collective) for 3'rd party products. 
Which gives a good sense of comunity



There is a lot of stuff that could be different in Plone, but on a basic 
level they got the right solution for making it possible to do 
distributed development of products that can still work together.



regards Max M

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[Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-24 Thread Max M
Dieter Maurer wrote:

Lennart Regebro wrote at 2004-4-23 10:57 +0200:

But ah well, what is done is done. Too late to change the past now. :-0
There is no need to change the past.
You can start using CMFCore profitable in the future :-)
I also disliked the cmf concept, until I actually started using it 
seriously.

regards Max M

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[Zope-dev] Re: Nightly Zope 3 Binary Compiles for WIndows

2004-04-24 Thread Max M
Chris Withers wrote:

Jim Fulton wrote:

FYI, there's a similar zip file now containing the same kind of thing 
for a
current Zope3 checkout (s/Zope2/Zope3/ in the URL).
If this is good enough for people trying to work from CVS on Windows, 
let me
know and I'll update them from time to time, and maybe move them to a 
saner location.

I'd be happy to set up a nightly (or weekly, let me know which would be 
better) scheduled task (see, it's Widnows, there is no Cron, although 
Schedules Tasks do have a much nicer UI ;-) ) that checked out he latest 
HEAD of Zope 3, compiled it and PUT it up to my Zope.org member area


I think that a nightly windows build would have a strong psychological 
effect.

I *did* manage to get Z3 compiled under Cygwin.

I had downloaded it to my Cygwin home directory with my TortoisCVS (win 
client). TortoiseCVS converts newlines to Windows newlines.

This, together with an apparent bug in PageTemplates or somesuch, gave 
me an error when I tried to go to a page in Plone. Are we missing a 
testcase here ;-)

It compiled fine, and all, but just couldn't show any pages.

When I downoaded it from CVS with the Cygwin command line client, it ran 
just as it should. I didn't need to do anything special.

I am writing an extensive How-To on this in any case. It's nice infor to 
have out there.

But I would rather run it from my normal Python under Windows. It would 
be easier in the long run I think.

I wouldn't mind writing a how-to for how to get that up and running  either.

I actually like writing technical documentation. Go figure.

regards Max M

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[Zope-dev] Re: Nightly Zope 3 Binary Compiles for WIndows

2004-04-24 Thread Max M
Tim Peters wrote:

[Chris Withers]

Saw my name mentioned earlier but not sure whether Tim has solved the
problem...
Can't say -- I put up .pyds for current Zope 2 and Zope 3 HEAD, but haven't
heard whether anyone tried them.
I will. Early next week. Something came up friday.


I expect that would be helpful, and also helpful for the Zope 2 HEAD, but
it's not clear what you would upload.  For example, just the .pyds, or the
entire codebase, or...?
CVS clients are easy enough to get a hold on on Windows. The best 
solution would be if it was possible to get the Python sources from CVS 
and the compiled binaries from somewhere else.

The problem is the compilation part, for somebody like me that don't 
normally develop in c. I guess that many Zope developers are like me, 
but I don't know offcourse.

But it would also make it possible for most Zope users, to download and 
try out this Zope 3 thing, and get a feel for how it develops.

regards Max M

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