Re: [Zope] Openflow_ZPygresqlDA_products_broken_on_ZMI

2010-12-08 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Smita, On 08/12/2010 14:32, Smita Kamdar wrote: Can I install ZPygresqlDA without uninstalling ZPsycopgDA on the same m/c? Will it work properly? If it works properly I will install ZPygresqlDA-0.0.3 on dev Linux box again import my source code check whether it still appears broken?

Re: [Zope] problem installing Openflow product of zope on LINUX

2010-12-07 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Smita, On 07/12/2010 15:26, Smita Kamdar wrote: I have already installed the following products on my dev RedHat LINUX m/c – 1) Zope-2.11.4 2) Python-2.4.4 3) Egenix-2.0.6 4) Postgresql-7.4.13 5) Psycopg-1.1.6 6) OpenFlow-1.1.0 on the live m/c also all these products are

Re: [Zope] anyone heard of Zamasing?

2008-04-18 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Tim, Tim Nash wrote: @Phil, I think you will find the product learning curve isn't that steep at all. The famous z-shaped curve has more to do with the lack of up-to-date documentation than anything else. Products are the way to go. It is very much like wriitng 'Scripts Python'. I am

Re: [Zope] anyone heard of Zamasing?

2008-04-17 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Tim, Tim Nash wrote: It is great to see more posts about how well zope works for Web 2.0 projects. I have used extjs with zope and really like the combination. I'd like to learn more about your jquery /plone setup and how you make it work. Would it be a time consuming for you to create a

Re: [Zope] anyone heard of Zamasing?

2008-04-16 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Tom, Tom Von Lahndorff wrote: Thats pretty awesome. It's zamazing to me that Zope 2 is not a de facto platform for Web 2.0 projects. I think it has some major benefits over Rails and maybe even Django but there seems to be no interest in it from that community. This is a great start. I

Re: [Zope] extract page title

2007-04-24 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Dean, Dean Hale wrote: I'm trying to implement some web tracking code within a page template, however a little stuck. In the code below i'd like to append the page template - page title between the title tags dynamically rather than having to manually add to each page script

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.6.4 + Win32 server

2007-02-21 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi David, David VanKirk wrote: I'm trying to migrate from a Linux server with Oracle to a win32 server with MS SQL Server. I need to run it behind a webserver so that I can connect through SSL. I've tried IIS, Apache + PCGI, and Apache + FastCGI. Has anyone been able to successfully run a

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.6.4 + Win32 server

2007-02-21 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi David, Please stay on the list - have added back in as CC. David VanKirk wrote: I was under the impression that you needed PCGI or FastCGI to get Zope and Apache to communicate. If you have another method, I'm open to try it. No, not at all - in fact FastCGI at least is deprecated in

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.6.4 + Win32 server

2007-02-21 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi David, Once again, please stay on the list - you need to hit reply to all. David VanKirk wrote: I appreciate your help and links, but I'm still not getting anything. I did say it was fiddly! I've go to get some urgent stuff out of the way, but I'll have some time later and will do a

Re: [Zope] cpu load 99 percent a lot in plone evinironment

2007-02-15 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Jamie, Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: Very useful. I've based my system on the first link because I didn't need to use POSTs, I just add ?foo=bar to the end of the URL and get it as normal. I added the ability to load a list of urls and element ids one after the other, then only activate the

Re: [Zope] cpu load 99 percent a lot in plone evinironment

2007-02-13 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Robert (Jamie?), Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: I've been having similar speed problems with a page that loops through a lot of SQL records. From what I can tell from the profiler, it is the security machinery that is at fault. I'm doing the same sort of stuff, and routinely have the same

Re: [Zope] Zope Alternative

2006-11-14 Thread Philip Kilner
Michael, michael nt milne wrote: Is there a reason that the Plone list gets 3 times the level of postings that the Zope list gets? Yes. because it is a more mature and constructive support environment which actually helps promote the product. Bollocks. :-) -- Regards, PhilK Say what

Re: [Zope] Zope and Log File Analysis

2006-10-19 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi, Doyon, Jean-Francois wrote: Ah yes, indeed, I could do custom logging ... But then I'd have to worry about the performance impact, the fact that because these logs would be custom, I'd need custom analysis tools as well (unless I can make it compatible somehow?) ... And so on ...

Re: [Zope] Upgrading Zope

2006-10-18 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi, Nightflyer wrote: I'd like to know if you think that such migration is feasible or if I'll encounter some problems. Do you think it is better to migrate to the latest version of the 2.x or 3.x branch? From 2.1.x to the latest 2.x should be feasible. Zope 3.x is a rewrite with no

Re: R: [Zope] Upgrading Zope

2006-10-18 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Andrew, Nightflyer wrote: Which RDBMS are you using your ZSQL Methods against? MySQL 4.1. From what you tell us, the database adapter is the only 3rd-party dependency, and (although I don't use it myself) I understand mySQL is well-supported, so you really need to try the upgrade on a

Re: [Zope-DB] Zope and PostgreeSQL

2006-10-18 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Javi, javi lopez wrote: Hello i´m a spanish boy and i have a problem with zope-postgreeSQL. My zope version ( Windows 2000) is 2.9.4, postgreSQL 8.1.5, python 2.4 y i want to conect my database about psycopg 2.0.5.1 but it don´t work. Can you help me please?? I don´t know what the problem

Re: [Zope] Zope 2 for Windows

2006-10-12 Thread Philip Kilner
Michael, michael nt milne wrote: ignorant thinking. Most businesses use Windows and Zope will suffer unless it is embraced. Volunteer to look after Windows if you want to fix this, but do not insult those who have volunteered to look after other platforms. Re-read what Andreas said (there

Re: [Zope] zope gets killed on startup

2006-10-05 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Martijn, Martijn Pieters wrote: Note that Plone 2.5 uses PlonePAS, which for some reason feels the need to replace the root-level acl_users folder when you create a Plone site. I've just been bitten by this, and aren't at all happy. Is there any reason I can't zap this and revert to a

Re: [Zope-DB] windows 2003 and sql server 2000

2006-09-30 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi, shahrzad khorrami wrote: Is there any body to know that what is the problem with windows 2003 and sql server 2000 ?I can't setup sql server2000 in windows 2003 ! Your question is off-topic for this list (they are both M$ products, after all), but FYI SQL Server needs to have service

Re: [Zope] zope hosting

2006-09-22 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi David, David H wrote: My understanding is that Zettai is closing down. Bummer cause I have been using them. Just looking for Zope Host recommendations I've moved to HSR from Zettai, and am very happy. I did the migration myself, as I wanted to do it step by step, but: -

Re: [Zope] Re: Zope behind iis

2006-08-24 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Max, Max M wrote: (Having seen a server wiped out via an IIS security hole, I just don't trust it on a public IP - long time ago, but once bitten, twice shy!) Hmmm ... then try making a mistake in your apache httpd.conf and turn on proxy by mistake. Sure - but I'm much more worried

Re: [Zope] MailBoxer Question

2006-08-24 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Beno, beno wrote: Well, all I know is that Pound has a strong following of Zopistas that use it in combination with Zope (and without Apache) for high volume production work and seem to be happy. Odd, then, that you have not had much input on the list about that. I can't provide numbers,

Re: [Zope] Zope behind iis

2006-08-23 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Chris, Chris Withers wrote: Personally, I'd just put Apache in front of both Zope and IIS... Me too - simpler, better documented, safer. (Having seen a server wiped out via an IIS security hole, I just don't trust it on a public IP - long time ago, but once bitten, twice shy!) --

Re: [Zope] MailBoxer Question

2006-08-23 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi, beno wrote: Apache duplicates 95% of what Zope's server does, so if you're only using Zope, then it's un-elegant to use Apache. Not so - Apache is a mature production web server, Zope is an application server that serves over HTTP, but it's HTTP server is *not* designed for production use.

Re: [Zope] MailBoxer Question

2006-08-23 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Chris, Chris Withers wrote: numpty. That is /such/ a great word! -- Regards, PhilK Human language continually changes, innit. - Stephen Juan ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts

Re: [Zope] MailBoxer Question

2006-08-23 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Chris, Chris Withers wrote: numpty. That is /such/ a great word! My thanks to Tim Penhey for re-introducing me to it :-) First said to me by a distressed Scots techie - Is that guy a numpty, or what?, and I hear it in my head in a Scots accent to this day. UrbanDictionary.com has

Re: [Zope] Logging client IPs to Z2.log

2006-08-17 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Oliver, Oliver Hookins wrote: I'd missed that you were using the reverse proxy technique - I'd strongly recommend rewrite rules. Without meaning to be greedy, can you suggest an example? As Jonathan says, the Zope book has examples. The most recent version I'm aware of is at: -

Re: [Zope] Logging client IPs to Z2.log

2006-08-16 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Oliver, Oliver Hookins wrote: So... is it at all possible to log the real client IPs in Z2.log using mod_proxy? If not what is going to happen when (and if) PCGI/FCGI support is removed? FCGI is already unsupported, It may be that you need to reconfigure apache, have a look at the

Re: [Zope] Logging client IPs to Z2.log

2006-08-16 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Oliver, Oliver Hookins wrote: Exactly. Instead of using apache as a reverse proxy, set up rewrite rules and then you can pass along the ip address (if you really need it). ...[snip]... Hmmm sounds like what I suspected is actually true... well at least I won't spend time bashing my

Re: [Zope] ZJetDA product and Microsoft Access

2006-07-27 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Michael, michael nt milne wrote: Thanks a lot. Yes I know it's crazy but some organisations built up a database over the years and want to stay with that technology. The best way would be to migrate but I can understand why it doesn't happen. I understand - but the migration from Access

Re: [Zope] ZJetDA product and Microsoft Access

2006-07-26 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Michael, michael nt milne wrote: I know it's totally crazy to want to hook Access up with Zope using sql queries but I'd just like to know if it's been done or is possible. Crazy on so many levels.../but/, although I can't tell you anything about the DA you are asking about, I can very

Re: [Zope] installing zope with appropriate python version

2006-07-16 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Noah, Noah wrote: The zope installed is telling me it is going to use the older version of python of 2.3.5 . Is this proper and welcome behavior? Yes... The optimum Python version (2.3.5) was found at /usr/local/bin/python2.3. - Zope top-level binary directory will be

Re: [Zope] Inavlid Refernce Counts in Temporary Storage

2006-07-14 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Dieter, Dieter Maurer wrote: You may see a bug in the pack implementation for TemporaryStorage. Aha - well, my Zope version is 2.8.6 - I'll dig to see if this version is affected. Few people will probably try to pack a TemporaryStorage... Are you shure to need it? No, not as such -

[Zope] Inavlid Refernce Counts in Temporary Storage

2006-07-13 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi All, I have an RDBMS application, which resides in a Plone site, but uses only Zope techniques. Aside from Plone, the only use of the ZODB is to hold session variables for users (search parameters etc.), and the load on that part of the system is very light (10 users, accessing the script in

Re: [Zope] manage_changeProperties has strange side effect on response Content-Type.

2006-06-16 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Andreas, Andreas Jung wrote: 'Hustype' is pure ASCII...this will *always* have the same encoding in almost all encodings (except in Klingon). [klingon] ghaH ghItlhta' Daq [ASCII] ;-) -- Regards, PhilK Human language continually changes, innit. - Stephen Juan

Re: [Zope-DB] A web based rewards management system for [EMAIL PROTECTED]

2006-06-10 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Bob, Since this is somewhat off topic for this list, I have replied to Philip directly, cc'ing yourself. Bottom line: Implementing something like this with Plone and some RDBMS integration should be relatively simple. For my own part, I think that the RDBMS route has advantages over a pure

Re: [Zope] apache rewrite rules redux

2006-05-24 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi David, I'm suffering from a coffee underflow error, so am not 100% (yet!), but... David Bear wrote: RewriteRule ^/z2$ http://127.0.0.1:9080/VirtualHostBase/\ https/%SERVER_NAME}:80/VirtualHostRoot/_vh_z2/ [L,P] RewriteRule ^/z2/(.*) http://127.0.0.1:9080/VirtualHostBase/\

Re: [Zope] Atomic ZSQL on Zope 2.7.5

2006-04-25 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Andreas, Andreas Jung wrote: For some reason I thought ZSQL method calls were atomic, but they appear otherwise. What do you mean by atomic? ZSQL are handled by the database adaper which is usually tied to the transaction manager of the ZODB. I'm too tired to find the words, so cut

Re: [Zope] Atomic ZSQL on Zope 2.7.5

2006-04-25 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Floyd, Floyd May wrote: Like Michael, I had understood that ZSQL database transactions were tied into Zope transactions, and would fail or succeed as a whole. Like him, I have found that - at least with this combination of DA RDBMS - this is not so. I work around it, as I always do when a

Re: [Zope] Atomic ZSQL on Zope 2.7.5

2006-04-25 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Michael, Maslak, Michael wrote: How can I detect failure and maintain atomicity? You may get more responses to this on the Zope-DB list - as well as other RDBMS + Zope users, the eGenix guys are active over there (or as active as you can be on such a quiet list). -- Regards, PhilK

Re: [Zope] Nabble, again?

2006-03-22 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Chris, Chris Withers wrote: Dunno what Nabble is You could always google for it... ;-) (Sorry - couldn't help myself!) -- Regards, PhilK Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP Public key: http://www.xfr.co.uk Voicemail Facsimile: 07092 070518 You'll find that one part's sweet and one

Re: [Zope] Using folder name in macro

2006-03-13 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi John, John Poltorak wrote: How do I use a folder name in a macro? ie I want to change this metal:macro metal:use-macro=context/abc.pt/macros/page This is a path expression with a file (abc.pt) and path (context/, signifying the context of the call)... which is in the folder 'abc'

[Zope-DB] Accessing ZSQL Method properties

2006-02-20 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi All, I'd like to throw a warning in my application when a record-set is truncated (e.g. if the ZSQL Method has a Maximum Rows to Retrieve value lower than the size of the record-set). In a Script(Python), what is the syntax to access this value? FWIW, I've been trying to work this out from

Re: [Zope] Re: major problems placing authentication on an extranet site-security flaw?

2006-02-11 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi, J Cameron Cooper wrote: Also, as I recall, there was a private plone site howto on plone.org; dunno what happened to it. It's still there, still works - and is very likely what Michael wants. -- Regards, PhilK Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP Public key: http://www.xfr.co.uk Voicemail

Re: [Zope] Re: major problems placing authentication on an extranet site-security flaw?

2006-02-11 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Again, Re. Private Plone Site Howto Philip Kilner wrote: It's still there, still works - and is very likely what Michael wants. I'm an idiot - should have checked, knowing that there was a documentation sprint last weekend. It was at: - http://plone.org/documentation/how-to/creating

Re: [Zope] Re: major problems placing authentication on an extranet site-security flaw?

2006-02-11 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Michael, michael nt milne wrote: Yes I found that as well but picked it up from the Google cache. Strange that it is available there as it's password protected. Possibly it was public before? Yes, it was public before. Have you tried this, and does it solve your problems? JCC is spot

Re: [Zope] Re: major problems placing authentication on an extranet site-security flaw?

2006-02-11 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Michael, michael nt milne wrote: I've implemented what's outlined in the make private site documentation and it works fine on Plone 2.1.1. No content is available apart from the site-map page (doesn't list content) and the contact form but I can figure that out separately. Since

Re: [Zope] Re: major problems placing authentication on an extranet site-security flaw?

2006-02-10 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Michael, michael nt milne wrote: Also I feel that Plone has usabillity which sits above it's prettyness. It is a well designed interface graphically but also has very strong non graphical usability elements. You are correct - but you are not comparing like with like, as Plone is an

Re: [Zope-DB] Suggestions If Any Please ! ! ! ! !

2005-11-18 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Rajesh, Rajesh wrote: I'm Having problem in Zsql Method ,which return recordset dictionary,containing key--.value pairs, this recordset returns only 1000 records ,Even if my Sql query satisfies more than 1000 records , Looking forward for suggestions/alternatives Look at the Advanced

Re: [Zope] ODBC DA on zope2.6.x

2005-11-03 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Giuseppe, Giuseppe Bonelli wrote: What people use as an ODBC database adaptor on Zope 2.7 and above? Is the eGenix.com mxODBC Zope DA commercial product the only serious alternative? I use the eGenix product (against MS SQL Server, primarily), and am very happy with it. It is not

Re: [Zope] NTUserFolder still useful?

2005-10-17 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Sean, Sean Dunn wrote: I’m running Zope on WindowsXP with plans to run it on server 2003. Instead of creating user accounts I’d like to leverage NT authentication.. And NTUserFolder looks like it might be what I want, except that it looks like a dead product. Besides a note that it works

Re: [Zope] Vservers and ZOPE

2005-09-27 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Benmania, Benmania Guin wrote: I have some experience with Zope on my desktop pc with an WIN XP operating system. Now I want to order my own virtual server but I am unsure about the features I will need and I do not know how to install ZOPE on such a system at all. Can you give me any

Re: [Zope] Re: ZDatabaseTool - does this still exist?

2005-08-11 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Michael, michael nt milne wrote: I've already made it clear in this thread exactly what I want to do! It doesn't to be a relational db to be able to easily add fields.The database browser tools in the ZMI are ok but basic. I'm as puzzled as other readers, but now you have said add

Re: [Zope] Re: ZDatabaseTool - does this still exist?

2005-08-11 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Michael, michael nt milne wrote: Whether you call them objects or fields it's still clear what I want to do and there's no easy way to do it. Surprised someone hasn't developed a product tn do this. I'm looking at CMFMember and perhaps it will fit the bill. There are a bunch of things

Re: [Zope] Re: localhost:8080 not found on windows

2005-08-10 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Michael, michael nt milne wrote: Thanks for the help here. I'm calling in a support engineer to try and get it up and running. Firewall, router issues involved. Strange though that localhost doesn't work. Because that wouldn't go through the firewall/router. I despise ISA Server with a

Re: [Zope] Re: localhost:8080 not found on windows

2005-08-10 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Michael, michael nt milne wrote: I've even tried using the machine's local IP but that doesn't work in the same way that localhost doesn't. I've installed Apache now as well so as to route requests through that to Zope. I'm going to be using the same IP address that the webmail exchange

Re: [Zope] localhost:8080 not found on windows

2005-08-09 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Michael, Apols for delay in replying - been on the hoof. michael nt milne wrote: Thanks for the advice. Yes I've looked at everything mentioned here. Localhost is in the hosts file. Zope has started as a service. I've changed the hosts file to include localhost:8080/manage etc. Yes this

[Zope] Re: localhost:8080 not found on windows

2005-08-09 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Michael, Michael nt milne wrote: I read though that you have to do a re-write in IIS or install an ISAPI re-write extension so that IIS speaks to zope. There's also the 404 asp script in Andy Mckay's book. This only applies if you are using the /same/ ports on IIS as Zope. Using 8080

[Zope] Re: localhost:8080 not found on windows

2005-08-09 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Michael, michael nt milne wrote: Ok thanks. Will check on the ISA side. I've it up and running on a laptop fine. Will let you know progress. Would you say it should be fine just running the app from the zope server on 8080 once it is running,rather than configuring to go through

[Zope] Re: localhost:8080 not found on windows

2005-08-09 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Michael, michael nt milne wrote: Ok, thanks. Yes, Apache would be much better to route traffic through. And also it looks like a complete pain to try and route traffic through IIS. Is Apache for windows good? I only have experience of it on UNIX Works fine - once it's up and running and

Re: [Zope] Anyone using isapirewrite or freshlogic re-write for IIS and Zope?

2005-08-09 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Michael, michael nt milne wrote: Has anyone used either of the ISAPI re-write tools for IIS and Zope from HeliconTech at http://www.isapirewrite.com or at Freshlogic http://freshlogic.net ? I'm attempting to set up a largescale instance on a windows small business server. The latter

Re: [Zope] RE: Blobs in Interbase

2005-08-02 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Ashley, Ashley Lloyd wrote: The LDAP error, as it turns out, was from zkinterbasdb or something like that - something I probably picked up thinking it was kinterbase. Aha - thought it was unlikely to be from the DA! Forgive my ignorance, but what was your procedure for installing

Re: [Zope] localhost:8080 not found on windows

2005-08-02 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Michael, michael nt milne wrote: I have installed Zope and Plone on a windows business server. On trying to view http://localhost:8080/manage I am getting a 404 not found etc. Is that under IE? It's error messages can be misleading... The server is already running a webmail service,

Re: [Zope] Re: Zope Foundation Update

2005-07-20 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Godefroid, Godefroid Chapelle wrote: It's definitely better to speak about it in the open air, where we all will be able to think about it together. Amen. I wasn't aware of this until ten minutes ago, and now it seems a whole bunch of stuff has gone on, up to and including people getting

Re: [Zope] Re: Zope Foundation Update

2005-07-20 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Chris, Chris Withers wrote: This has the potential to make the Zope community look like muppets, and not in a good Swedish chef kind of way... I'm not sure muppetism applies to the Zope community, it appears to be Zope Corporation who are coming out of this looking less than clever.

Re: [Zope] Newbie Questions - many-many relationships? Zope 2 or 3?

2005-06-22 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Jim, Jim Vine wrote: I’d greatly appreciate any guidance that can be provided on these subjects. I know a lot has been said since your original query, but re-reading it I was surprised that no one had asked a fundamental question: - If the data is structured in nature and fits the

Re: [Zope] Transferring Zope Settings

2005-06-14 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Joel, jlegris wrote: Clearly, transferring the Data.fs from the test server to the production server is insufficient given the user data mismatch. Therefore, it would seem that my only option, given the circumstances would be to manually replicate the configuration in the production

Re: [Zope-DB] ZODBCDA

2005-05-20 Thread Philip Kilner
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Carlos, Carlos A. Micucci wrote: I have a problem with ZODBCDA. When query a DB which instances have a null values, this values return as cero values (0) not nulls values, and this is a problem for me, because I need differentiate them.

Re: [Zope] Re: Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

2005-04-07 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Chris, Chris Withers wrote: (There are no plans to deprecate DTML. It is even supported in Zope 3.) That is the best news I have heard all day (although, it is early). I will be selling black flags for the mourning of a missed opportunity... With or without a circled A? ;-) -- Regards, PhilK

Re: [Zope] RE: [Zope-dev] Prohibiting Spams on the List

2004-06-18 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Tim, Tim Peters wrote: I'd be happy to restrict posting to members, *if* people don't object to the idea. I wouldn't ever even /expect/ to be able to submit from a non-member address... I spend an increasingly resented part of each day doing list-admin triage (for zodb-dev and about 6 other