Re: [Zope] Does anyone care whether we deprecate Your Favourite Part of Zope
Andrew Milton wrote: I think people on this list need to realize that eventually, the direction of any significantly large Open Source project is hijacked by the relatively small number of people actually doing the work. The reasons for this are many-fold, but, normally come down to a lack of communication between the developers and the users, which is realized in a lack of understanding by the developers of what the users want. This for the most part isn't generally a problem, until, the developers start to do things for the user's own good, like remove features that are kludgey, or a hack, or insert some other reason, which generally means either noone wants to work on it, or some other change caused it to break, and noone wants to fix it. Now to the credit of the Zope guys, they actually poll the users to find out, rather than just announce the demise of something. However, in general once you add a feature, you can be guaranteed, that somewhere, someone is using it, so removing it will always cause a problem. So there will always be an uproar when you poll. You're never going to be able to reduce the feature set between point releases without upsetting some group of people. So why don't we stop all this nonsense now, and just agree, that you're never going to do that d8) You have Zope 3 to remove all the stuff you hate d8) In my opinion if you change something, it's your responsibility to fix the resulting breakage. That's part of your responsibiliity to the rest of the community (i.e. the [mostly non-paying] customers). If you don't think you have this responsibility to us, then you should work on your own version of Zope, where you're not impacting anyone else. For the record, I hate ZClasses... d8) I wish Terri Shiavo had as much compassion as ZClasses. ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Does anyone care whether we deprecate Your Favourite Part of Zope
flame What gives us the right to dictate what features these people give up their time to work on? Sure, Zope (the company) pays some, but others seem to do it for no direct reward, other than the Zope program. end flame I admire these people, I have no idea what goes through Zope, though I might look at fixing some bugs and submitting patches to see what's involved. If you love the feature so much, either make it work yourself, or pay someone to. I do sympathise those who have spent time creating and maintaining solutions based on ZClasses, and I hope someone comes up with a system to export them to a product. I started with python scripts and then a product. Basic products are simple and development can be quite fast with refreshing turned on. -- Phillip Hutchings http://www.sitharus.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Does anyone care whether we deprecate Your Favourite Part of Zope
David H escribió: Andrew Milton wrote: I think people on this list need to realize that eventually, the direction of any significantly large Open Source project is hijacked by the relatively small number of people actually doing the work. The reasons for this are many-fold, but, normally come down to a lack of communication between the developers and the users, which is realized in a lack of understanding by the developers of what the users want. This for the most part isn't generally a problem, until, the developers start to do things for the user's own good, like remove features that are kludgey, or a hack, or insert some other reason, which generally means either noone wants to work on it, or some other change caused it to break, and noone wants to fix it. Now to the credit of the Zope guys, they actually poll the users to find out, rather than just announce the demise of something. However, in general once you add a feature, you can be guaranteed, that somewhere, someone is using it, so removing it will always cause a problem. So there will always be an uproar when you poll. You're never going to be able to reduce the feature set between point releases without upsetting some group of people. So why don't we stop all this nonsense now, and just agree, that you're never going to do that d8) You have Zope 3 to remove all the stuff you hate d8) In my opinion if you change something, it's your responsibility to fix the resulting breakage. That's part of your responsibiliity to the rest of the community (i.e. the [mostly non-paying] customers). If you don't think you have this responsibility to us, then you should work on your own version of Zope, where you're not impacting anyone else. For the record, I hate ZClasses... d8) I wish Terri Shiavo had as much compassion as ZClasses. ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) Perhaps a unfortunated comment ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Does anyone care whether we deprecate Your Favourite Part of Zope
I think people on this list need to realize that eventually, the direction of any significantly large Open Source project is hijacked by the relatively small number of people actually doing the work. The reasons for this are many-fold, but, normally come down to a lack of communication between the developers and the users, which is realized in a lack of understanding by the developers of what the users want. This for the most part isn't generally a problem, until, the developers start to do things for the user's own good, like remove features that are kludgey, or a hack, or insert some other reason, which generally means either noone wants to work on it, or some other change caused it to break, and noone wants to fix it. Now to the credit of the Zope guys, they actually poll the users to find out, rather than just announce the demise of something. However, in general once you add a feature, you can be guaranteed, that somewhere, someone is using it, so removing it will always cause a problem. So there will always be an uproar when you poll. You're never going to be able to reduce the feature set between point releases without upsetting some group of people. So why don't we stop all this nonsense now, and just agree, that you're never going to do that d8) You have Zope 3 to remove all the stuff you hate d8) In my opinion if you change something, it's your responsibility to fix the resulting breakage. That's part of your responsibiliity to the rest of the community (i.e. the [mostly non-paying] customers). If you don't think you have this responsibility to us, then you should work on your own version of Zope, where you're not impacting anyone else. For the record, I hate ZClasses... d8) -- Andrew Milton [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
