Peter Bengtsson wrote at 2009-4-13 15:03 +0100:
- Chris, I rarely agree with you but I actually like your fearless
and provocative bashing for the sake (hopefully) of stirring up some
action.
- Andreas, you've done a great job with Zope but let's raise the bar
and not pass judgement on peoples
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On 13.04.2009 22:15 Uhr, Garito wrote:
do you want that everyone contribute here? Well, respect us and don't
think we are as stupids to talk to us like you are
Very encouraging for continuing my Zope 2 relaunch project. You are once
again
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On 14.04.2009 2:18 Uhr, Tim Nash wrote:
Andreas, please keep up the great work but take a break every now and
then. I appreciated your advice, but not that email because you
clearly weren't just joking, it was the only private email you have
Well, Andreas, I think you don't understand that I'm in the process to left
behind Zope as my application framework, again you don't read what I write
you properly (the same problem again and again and again and again...)
2009/4/14 Andreas Jung li...@zopyx.com
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On 13.04.2009 6:46 Uhr, Dieter Maurer wrote:
Andreas Jung wrote at 2009-4-12 09:52 +0200:
...
@Dieter: participate or be silent. You are member of the Zope community
for years, you are member of the Zope Foundation as a committer member.
Such
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On 13.04.2009 6:29 Uhr, Dieter Maurer wrote:
Andreas Jung wrote at 2009-4-12 09:52 +0200:
@Dieter: participate or be silent.
I do not obey your orders.
You are Zope 2 release manager and part of the
Foundation board -- but you do not
Hi there,
this is an email I wanted to write for several times in the past.
I find it very sad, that grown up people that are extremely knowledgeable and
the source of lots of incredibly helpful advice *nobody* else seems to be able
or willing to give, contributers of a wealth of tools the whole
will have to investigate other solutions.
cb
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: zope-boun...@zope.org [mailto:zope-boun...@zope.org] Namens Andreas
Jung
Verzonden: maandag 13 april 2009 9:31
Aan: Dieter Maurer
CC: Chris Withers; zope@zope.org
Onderwerp: Re: [Zope] [Zope-dev] Zope 4.0, maybe
This kind of actitude is what doing me and other like me stop to participate
to this list and I hope soon left Zope as a good tool without future
Andreas your actutide and your way make some of others seek at other
technologies
Is you who could be silent if you can't be gentle
You think that
- Chris, I rarely agree with you but I actually like your fearless
and provocative bashing for the sake (hopefully) of stirring up some
action.
- Andreas, you've done a great job with Zope but let's raise the bar
and not pass judgement on peoples opinions (especially not my personal
hero Dieter
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On 13.04.2009 14:28 Uhr, Garito wrote:
The real thing is that you and other like you are killing Zope
community, take note, man
Before you make such nonsense statements, please step up and show
your engagement in the Zope community e.g. by
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On 13.04.2009 11:33 Uhr, robert rottermann wrote:
Hi there,
this is an email I wanted to write for several times in the past.
I find it very sad, that grown up people that are extremely knowledgeable and
the source of lots of incredibly helpful
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On 13.04.2009 11:56 Uhr, Kees de Brabander wrote:
For me, this looks like dictatorship tendencies start to grow and are
soon embracing censorship.
There is neither dictatorship nor censorship. Only those that
participate and contribute in an
Onderwerp: Re: [Zope] [Zope-dev] Zope 4.0, maybe not such a bad idea...
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On 13.04.2009 11:56 Uhr, Kees de Brabander wrote:
For me, this looks like dictatorship tendencies start to grow and are
soon embracing censorship.
There is neither
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On 13.04.2009 21:00 Uhr, Kees de Brabander wrote:
First, I wrote something completely different.
Sorry, appearently I made a mistake in quoting the postings.
Second, it seems to me that, in the end, an open source project like zope
proves its
Did you think that I'm considering myself part of these comunity?
Since the first time I wrote here you are telling me that I'm wrong even if
you don't know a word of what I'm doing
Did you think that I have good opinion about Zope, at this time, to
contribute?
I make a contribution that no one
Andreas,
On feb 28 you sent this private email to me as a part of a thread
about sqlite:
Hopefully you won't release your trash to the public :-)
- -aj
Andreas, please keep up the great work but take a break every now and
then. I appreciated your advice, but not that email because you
Andrew Milton wrote at 2009-4-11 21:46 +1000:
...
So your position is, the code is fine, but, the docs suck so don't use
it. Well the docs have always sucked, the zope-3 docs don't seem any
better. Perhaps the people deprecating and removing interfaces willy-nilly
should document the
+---[ Dieter Maurer ]--
| Andrew Milton wrote at 2009-4-11 21:46 +1000:
| ...
| So your position is, the code is fine, but, the docs suck so don't use
| it. Well the docs have always sucked, the zope-3 docs don't seem any
| better. Perhaps the people deprecating and
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On 12.04.2009 9:01 Uhr, Dieter Maurer wrote:
Andrew Milton wrote at 2009-4-11 21:46 +1000:
...
So your position is, the code is fine, but, the docs suck so don't use
it. Well the docs have always sucked, the zope-3 docs don't seem any
better.
Andreas Jung wrote at 2009-4-12 09:52 +0200:
@Dieter: participate or be silent.
I do not obey your orders.
You are Zope 2 release manager and part of the
Foundation board -- but you do not have command power over things outside
the Zope 2 release management and the foundation.
Thus, I
censorship.
Thus, should you soon no longer hear from me, you know what happened
Here the complete message of Andreas (in German):
From: Andreas Jung li...@zopyx.com
To: Dieter Maurer die...@handshake.de
Subject: Re: [Zope] [Zope-dev] Zope 4.0, maybe not such a bad idea...
Date: Sun, 12 Apr
Andrew Milton wrote:
My position is that plenty of people use Zope 2 without plone,
Your position appeared to be that it's a good idea to tempt new users
into using plain zope 2. I assert that it's not because zope.org is
dead, the docs have barely changed in 7 years and, in a specific case,
+---[ Chris Withers ]--
| Andrew Milton wrote:
| My position is that plenty of people use Zope 2 without plone,
|
| Your position appeared to be that it's a good idea to tempt new users
| into using plain zope 2. I assert that it's not because zope.org is
| dead, the
Andrew Milton wrote:
+---[ Chris Withers ]--
| Andrew Milton wrote:
| My position is that plenty of people use Zope 2 without plone,
|
| Your position appeared to be that it's a good idea to tempt new users
| into using plain zope 2. I assert that it's not because
+---[ Chris Withers ]--
| Andrew Milton wrote:
| +---[ Chris Withers ]--
| | Andrew Milton wrote:
| | My position is that plenty of people use Zope 2 without plone,
| |
| | Your position appeared to be that it's a good idea to tempt new users
| |
Lennart Regebro wrote:
3. Grok moves over either to Zope.pipeline or repose.bfg as publisher in
Grok 2.
Grok is Grok, Repoze is Repoze, lets leave them be and let them choose their
own names...
Grok and Repoze is not mutually exclusive.
For end users who pick one or the other, they are
On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 10:34, Chris Withers ch...@simplistix.co.uk wrote:
Lennart Regebro wrote:
Grok and Repoze is not mutually exclusive.
For end users who pick one or the other, they are *are* mutually exclusive
in that the users won't necessarily know (or care) that the other exists...
I
Lennart Regebro wrote:
On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 10:34, Chris Withers ch...@simplistix.co.uk wrote:
Lennart Regebro wrote:
Grok and Repoze is not mutually exclusive.
For end users who pick one or the other, they are *are* mutually exclusive
in that the users won't necessarily know (or care) that
Chris Withers wrote at 2009-4-2 21:29 +0100:
Andreas Jung wrote:
Andrew others have been working on this issue at the sprint. There is
consensus that www.zope.org must be turned into landing page with some
mission statement and then links to the related subprojects. The current
zope.org site
On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 08:32, Dieter Maurer die...@handshake.de wrote:
Because members put there content (product implementations) still usable?
Absolutely right. In the long run that should probably be moved over
to PyPI though.
--
Lennart Regebro: Pythonista, Barista, Notsotrista.
(Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 04:11:00PM -0400) Jim Fulton wrote/schrieb/egrapse:
I don't think we need AB. Maybe just Zope and Zope Framework.
As long as both use the word Zope, the confusion will continue.
Why don't the Zope 3 people find a different name now, something that
relates but is not the
My preferred Zope-future would be:
1. The Zope Framework dependency cleanup project continues. When
cleanup is deemed reasonably finished, we rename the framework Zope 4.
2. Zope 3 The Application server moves over to zope.pipeline or
similar, and gets a new name, and becomes one of the
Andrew Milton wrote:
| Plenty of people use it without plone. You might want to crawl out of
| the vacuum you live in.
|
| Yes, and I'm one of them, but I don't think it's fair to try and tempt
| new users into it...
|
| I'm happy to be proven wrong by you writing lots of decent docs,
Sascha Welter wrote:
(Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 04:11:00PM -0400) Jim Fulton wrote/schrieb/egrapse:
I don't think we need AB. Maybe just Zope and Zope Framework.
As long as both use the word Zope, the confusion will continue.
Well, not quite, I think as long as any *one* of the bits uses the
Andrew Milton wrote:
I think making a distinction between the app servers and the
framework/architecture is a good idea, it then just becomes a matter of
educating our current or potential users.
Indeed, I hope you'd agree that differentiating them both by nothing
more than version number is
Lennart Regebro wrote:
1. The Zope Framework dependency cleanup project continues. When
cleanup is deemed reasonably finished, we rename the framework Zope 4.
Oh, so Zope 4 is a run on from Zope 2?
How do I upgrade from Zope 2 to Zope 3?
How about from 3.5 to 4?
No, Martijn as Zope Framework
2009/4/3 Chris Withers ch...@simplistix.co.uk:
Lennart Regebro wrote:
1. The Zope Framework dependency cleanup project continues. When
cleanup is deemed reasonably finished, we rename the framework Zope 4.
Oh, so Zope 4 is a run on from Zope 2?
Eh... no.
How do I upgrade from Zope 2 to
+---[ Chris Withers ]--
| Andrew Milton wrote:
| | Plenty of people use it without plone. You might want to crawl out of
| | the vacuum you live in.
| |
| | Yes, and I'm one of them, but I don't think it's fair to try and tempt
| | new users into it...
| |
| | I'm happy
On Apr 2, 2009, at 3:57 PM, Chris Withers wrote:
Remember this:
http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2001/04/01/parrot.htm
Well, that lead to this:
http://www.parrot.org/
One of the reasons I got suckered into replying was that I thought
this
might be the result of some stuff a few of us had
Jim Fulton wrote:
What Martijn has announced and is already being worked on extensively.
- Zope A 4.0
What was to be Zope 2.12
- Zope B 4.0
Whatever the next pending release of the Zope 3 appserver stuff was to
be. (Need to keep the Canonical and ZC guys happy afterall ;-) )
On Apr 2, 2009, at 4:17 PM, Chris Withers wrote:
Jim Fulton wrote:
What Martijn has announced and is already being worked on
extensively.
- Zope A 4.0
What was to be Zope 2.12
- Zope B 4.0
Whatever the next pending release of the Zope 3 appserver stuff
was to
be. (Need to keep
Jim Fulton wrote:
We and canonical use the Zope Framework. We don't use an
application. Zope (aka Zope 2) is an extensible application. We (ZC
and Canonical and others) assemble components from the Zope Framework
to build our own applications.
Hmm, maybe I got this wrong, but Gary
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On 02.04.2009 22:17 Uhr, Chris Withers wrote:
I'd *really* like to see the majority of the current www.zope.org simply
eradicated from existence. It's out of date and a source of nothing but
confusion.
Andrew others have been working on this
Andreas Jung wrote:
Andrew others have been working on this issue at the sprint. There is
consensus that www.zope.org must be turned into landing page with some
mission statement and then links to the related subprojects. The current
zope.org site should be moved to old.zope.org (it must
+---[ Chris Withers ]--
| Jim Fulton wrote:
| We and canonical use the Zope Framework. We don't use an
| application. Zope (aka Zope 2) is an extensible application. We (ZC
| and Canonical and others) assemble components from the Zope Framework
| to build our
Andrew Milton wrote:
| - mature
| - stable
| - maybe not the best choice for new development.
^ for you
Indeed, but classic doesn't have any bad connotations as far as I'm
concerned, and it'll need to keep living as long as Plone relies on it,
which will be
+---[ Chris Withers ]--
| Andreas Jung wrote:
| Andrew others have been working on this issue at the sprint. There is
| consensus that www.zope.org must be turned into landing page with some
| mission statement and then links to the related subprojects. The current
|
+---[ Chris Withers ]--
| Andrew Milton wrote:
| | - mature
| | - stable
| | - maybe not the best choice for new development.
| ^ for you
|
| Indeed, but classic doesn't have any bad connotations as far as I'm
| concerned, and it'll need to
Andrew Milton wrote:
| Why does it need to keep living even at old.zope.org?
Why do you care if it does?
Because someone needs to look after the (rather large, ancient and
crufty) zope instance in which it lives, and it keeps on tripping up
innocent passers-by.
I don't think many of these
Andrew Milton wrote:
| Indeed, but classic doesn't have any bad connotations as far as I'm
| concerned, and it'll need to keep living as long as Plone relies on it,
| which will be forever...
Plenty of people use it without plone. You might want to crawl out of
the vacuum you live in.
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On 02.04.2009 22:29 Uhr, Chris Withers wrote:
Andreas Jung wrote:
Andrew others have been working on this issue at the sprint. There is
consensus that www.zope.org must be turned into landing page with some
mission statement and then links to the
Andreas Jung wrote:
Because we can't break existing download URL - neither to old Zope
releases
I'd imagine the full set of releases would appear on the respective
parts of classic.zope.org or advanced.zope.org...
nor to old product releases.
I wonder how many of these are actually safe
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On 02.04.2009 22:37 Uhr, Chris Withers wrote:
Andreas Jung wrote:
Because we can't break existing download URL - neither to old Zope
releases
I'd imagine the full set of releases would appear on the respective
parts of classic.zope.org or
Andreas Jung wrote:
I'd imagine the full set of releases would appear on the respective
parts of classic.zope.org or advanced.zope.org...
*shrug* I don't care if those releases on the new zope2.zope.org
Please not zope2.zope.org, the insane version naming has *got* to stop...
microsite or
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On 02.04.2009 22:45 Uhr, Chris Withers wrote:
Andreas Jung wrote:
I'd imagine the full set of releases would appear on the respective
parts of classic.zope.org or advanced.zope.org...
*shrug* I don't care if those releases on the new
Andreas Jung wrote:
We might discuss this unhurriedly. To sleep and being in vacation mood
in order to discuss this now :-) At least the term 'classic' is a NO-GO
for me.
Why? Would you prefer 'a' or maybe 'old'? ;-)
microsite or somewhere else. The point is that the release should
remain
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On 02.04.2009 22:52 Uhr, Chris Withers wrote:
Andreas Jung wrote:
We might discuss this unhurriedly. To sleep and being in vacation mood
in order to discuss this now :-) At least the term 'classic' is a NO-GO
for me.
Why? Would you prefer 'a'
+---[ Chris Withers ]--
| Andrew Milton wrote:
| | Indeed, but classic doesn't have any bad connotations as far as I'm
| | concerned, and it'll need to keep living as long as Plone relies on it,
| | which will be forever...
|
| Plenty of people use it without plone. You
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