Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope

2000-05-29 Thread Martijn Faassen
Jimmie Houchin wrote: I would like to echo what Dieter wrote here. We need to encourage people who write products or other extensions to Zope in writing cleanly, clearly defined extensions which can be used in a black box manner. Sure, but we also need to encourage people to study each

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed

2000-05-29 Thread Martijn Faassen
Oleg Broytmann wrote: Where do you intend on going? If there was something better out there you'd be humping its leg already. Thanks goodness, I am not using Zope on production servers. I use Zope only to experiments and understand the technology. Looked good until yesterday. This is

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed

2000-05-29 Thread Martijn Faassen
Martijn Pieters wrote: [snip] Now, please, can we stop this whole silly argument? Can't we talk about old terminal types or something, instead? That invocation only works on comp.lang.python. :) Regards, Martijn ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed

2000-05-29 Thread Martijn Faassen
Paul Everitt wrote: [snip] As the person that made the decision, I can at least testify that no ulterior motives were behind it. Still, Zope is a community thing, and we here at DC need our heads bopped on a regular basis, lest we ever forget it. Consider our heads bopped. :^) And this

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope

2000-05-29 Thread Paul Everitt
Martijn Faassen wrote: The addition of the Perl stuff will be bad if the Zope source will be hacked up in various places in order to support this. I can be _good_ if this means a focus on providing clean interfaces first, and a more componentized architecture. I.e. there's a focus on

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope

2000-05-29 Thread Jimmie Houchin
Martijn Faassen wrote: Jimmie Houchin wrote: I would like to echo what Dieter wrote here. We need to encourage people who write products or other extensions to Zope in writing cleanly, clearly defined extensions which can be used in a black box manner. Sure, but we also need to

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope

2000-05-29 Thread Martijn Faassen
Paul Everitt wrote: Martijn Faassen wrote: The addition of the Perl stuff will be bad if the Zope source will be hacked up in various places in order to support this. I can be _good_ if this means a focus on providing clean interfaces first, and a more componentized architecture. I.e.

RE: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed

2000-05-26 Thread John Chandler
Actually, I'd like to see Zope interface with "more" languages (Java, C++ etc.) There are a number of areas that Python performs poorly (I'd prefer to write encryption algorithms in C, personally) and there are areas where Python performs very well (OO modelling). I think if people are

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed

2000-05-26 Thread Bill Anderson
Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote: [...] The sad fact of the matter is that there is more concern for people's personal welfare, than that of the project as a whole. When in fact, what is good for Zope is good for the community. Zope is open source, if you don't like Perl, and it morally

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed

2000-05-26 Thread Oleg Broytmann
On 25 May 2000, Roman Milner wrote: Here is why I'm bummed about this. Like other people who have posted - after years of coding perl for money, I have vowed never to do it again. (I find that it produces encourages unmaintainable code.) Also, I think my main marketable skill now is Zope.

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed

2000-05-26 Thread Andrew Kenneth Milton
+[ Oleg Broytmann ]- | | So, I believe this is enough reason for me to start considering other | web technologies for me, and my company. | |I am considering dismounting the Zope bandwagon, too :( It was good | techonology, but what will

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed

2000-05-26 Thread Oleg Broytmann
On Sat, 27 May 2000, Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote: | So, I believe this is enough reason for me to start considering other | web technologies for me, and my company. | |I am considering dismounting the Zope bandwagon, too :( It was good | techonology, but what will come? Where do

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed

2000-05-26 Thread Karl Anderson
Ken Manheimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 25 May 2000, Roman Milner wrote: Well, my point is that I don't think you will be able to ignore it. Your boss will give you a product to maintain that includes someone else's perl code - sooner or later. My boss isn't going to suddenly tell

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope

2000-05-26 Thread Dieter Maurer
Evan Gibson writes: What happens when we have 4 or 5 different types of methods (perl, php, python, c, pascal, whatever...) and through multiple people working on a site or a product you suddenly have them all used and have to suddenly upkeep something you have no idea about because

[Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope

2000-05-25 Thread Heiko Stoermer
Zopistas, Paul Everitt wrote: Digital Creations, creators of the Open Source Zope application server, announced today that it is teaming with ActiveState, a leading provider of Internet programming software, to make Perl a scripting language for Zope. [...] --Paul Paul Everitt

[Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed

2000-05-25 Thread Roman Milner
Here is why I'm bummed about this. Like other people who have posted - after years of coding perl for money, I have vowed never to do it again. (I find that it produces encourages unmaintainable code.) Also, I think my main marketable skill now is Zope. So, were I to want to find a different

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed

2000-05-25 Thread Kevin Dangoor
- Original Message - From: "Roman Milner" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 1:48 PM Subject: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed Here is why I'm bummed about this. Like other people who have posted - after years

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed

2000-05-25 Thread Roman Milner
"KD" == Kevin Dangoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: KD I think Zope offers a ton of features that I wouldn't want to KD give up. (And I've been watching what the other servers out KD there are doing, and I still appreciate the power given by KD Zope.) I don't question at all that

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed

2000-05-25 Thread Hannu Krosing
Kevin Dangoor wrote: I haven't heard of anyone standing up and saying "I'm not going to use Linux, because people might write tools in perl [or awk, or C, or lisp, or sh, or yacc or postscript, or ...]" Perhaps that's a better way to look at Zope... not as a python web application, but as

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope

2000-05-25 Thread Dieter Maurer
Heiko Stoermer writes: Zopistas, Paul Everitt wrote: Digital Creations, creators of the Open Source Zope application server, announced today that it is teaming with ActiveState, a leading provider of Internet programming software, to make Perl a scripting language for

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed

2000-05-25 Thread Ken Manheimer
On 25 May 2000, Roman Milner wrote: Well, my point is that I don't think you will be able to ignore it. Your boss will give you a product to maintain that includes someone else's perl code - sooner or later. Since it is "part of zope" and you clearly "know zope" you should be able to

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed

2000-05-25 Thread Roman Milner
"KM" == Ken Manheimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: KM I have some misgivings with this outlook. It sounds like KM people who seek job security by having expertise with a system KM that closes out unfamiliar options - whether the options are KM better or worse. I'm not in any way

RE: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed

2000-05-25 Thread Michael Oas
Actually, I'd like to see Zope interface with "more" languages (Java, C++ etc.) There are a number of areas that Python performs poorly (I'd prefer to write encryption algorithms in C, personally) and there are areas where Python performs very well (OO modelling). I think if people are upset

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed

2000-05-25 Thread Ken Manheimer
On 25 May 2000, Roman Milner wrote: "KM" == Ken Manheimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: KM I have some misgivings with this outlook. It sounds like KM people who seek job security by having expertise with a system KM that closes out unfamiliar options - whether the options are

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope

2000-05-25 Thread Evan Gibson
On Thu, May 25, 2000 at 09:17:16PM +0200, Dieter Maurer wrote: What are the benefits? - being able to use DBI when I have Zope Database connectors? - finally having people doing obfuscated perl contests again in their products, when I was just glad to having gotten rid of all this?

Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed

2000-05-25 Thread mindlace
Roman Milner wrote: For zope, you will just have to "know zope" - employers will see "zope" and a language just like parents see "understanding computers" as knowing how to fix their windows boxes :) I feel like I "know zope", but I don't have a deep understanding of python, or a