[Zope-dev] Zope Book 2.7 edition
Chris, what do you think about moving the current version of the ZB hosted on plope.com back on zope.org. The quickstart page of Zope still points to the 2.6 edition. I would like to get of the 2.6 edition and call it just Zope Book + the data of the last modification. Since we can not synchronize Zope release with the Zope Book it would make sense to me to get rid of the version numberI think it is confusing to distinguish between the 2.6 and 2.7 edition (when there is already Zope 2.8) and versions hosted on zope.org vs. plope.com. -aj pgpwCh4ej222o.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] The Zope Book
On Fri, Apr 08, 2005 at 06:58:31PM +0200, Dieter Maurer wrote: Lennart Regebro wrote at 2005-4-8 10:59 +0200: ... On Apr 8, 2005 8:48 AM, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Which The Zope Book are you referring to? The 2.6 one on Zope.org? The 2.7 one on Plope.com? The 3.whatever one somewhere-I-don't-know? I would expect it to be featured, that is mentioned as a recommended practice, in a Zope2.9 book, should one appear. I also thonk that with 2.8 a 2.8 book should be released, which main feature could be to move the ZClass part to an appendix. Indead, something along this line... Considering that we still have not finished the 2.7 edition of the book, I find it very unlikely that we will manage to get something out in sync with the first zope 2.8 release. Anyone who wishes to help us edit the book is encouraged to visit http://plope.com/Books/zb_signup -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] The Zope Book
Lennart Regebro wrote at 2005-4-8 10:59 +0200: ... On Apr 8, 2005 8:48 AM, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Which The Zope Book are you referring to? The 2.6 one on Zope.org? The 2.7 one on Plope.com? The 3.whatever one somewhere-I-don't-know? I would expect it to be featured, that is mentioned as a recommended practice, in a Zope2.9 book, should one appear. I also thonk that with 2.8 a 2.8 book should be released, which main feature could be to move the ZClass part to an appendix. Indead, something along this line... -- Dieter ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] The Zope Book
Chris McDonough wrote: I don't think anyone has given much thought to actually documenting all these nice nifty features in 2.9. Which is no change from the norm, and it will be a fairly organic process again. I hate it, but whatever. - C Speaking of which, and being one of the people that promised to deliver but has not done so 100% yet, is it possible to checkout the Zope Book from cvs or svn? That'd help a lot in terms of incrementally adding stuff, at least for me. Thanks, /dario -- -- --- Dario Lopez-Kästen, IT Systems Services Chalmers University of Tech. ...and click? damn, I need to kill -9 Word again... - b using macosx ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] The Zope Book
No, sorry. THe canonical version is on the web. - C On Tue, 2005-04-12 at 04:10, Dario Lopez-Ksten wrote: Chris McDonough wrote: I don't think anyone has given much thought to actually documenting all these nice nifty features in 2.9. Which is no change from the norm, and it will be a fairly organic process again. I hate it, but whatever. - C Speaking of which, and being one of the people that promised to deliver but has not done so 100% yet, is it possible to checkout the Zope Book from cvs or svn? That'd help a lot in terms of incrementally adding stuff, at least for me. Thanks, /dario ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] The Zope Book
Dieter Maurer wrote: When will they feature in *the* Zope Book? Which The Zope Book are you referring to? The 2.6 one on Zope.org? The 2.7 one on Plope.com? The 3.whatever one somewhere-I-don't-know? It's the age old documentation problem coming back to bite us again :-S cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] The Zope Book
On Apr 8, 2005 8:48 AM, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dieter Maurer wrote: When will they feature in *the* Zope Book? Which The Zope Book are you referring to? The 2.6 one on Zope.org? The 2.7 one on Plope.com? The 3.whatever one somewhere-I-don't-know? I would expect it to be featured, that is mentioned as a recommended practice, in a Zope2.9 book, should one appear. I also thonk that with 2.8 a 2.8 book should be released, which main feature could be to move the ZClass part to an appendix. -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/ ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] The Zope Book
I don't think anyone has given much thought to actually documenting all these nice nifty features in 2.9. Which is no change from the norm, and it will be a fairly organic process again. I hate it, but whatever. - C On Fri, 2005-04-08 at 11:22, Paul Winkler wrote: On Fri, Apr 08, 2005 at 10:59:46AM +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote: On Apr 8, 2005 8:48 AM, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dieter Maurer wrote: When will they feature in *the* Zope Book? Which The Zope Book are you referring to? The 2.6 one on Zope.org? The 2.7 one on Plope.com? The 3.whatever one somewhere-I-don't-know? I would expect it to be featured, that is mentioned as a recommended practice, in a Zope2.9 book, should one appear. I also thonk that with 2.8 a 2.8 book should be released, which main feature could be to move the ZClass part to an appendix. I would love that. But in the present day, we haven't even finished the 2.7 book. I suppose we could just change the book's release number from 2.7 to 2.8 and hope that's adequate ;-) But that leaves unanswered questions - should we document the Five stuff at all, and if so, how? The primary problem with the Zope Book is still the relative scarcity of resources (i.e. editors with time to work on it). The secondary problem with the Zope Book is that it's showing its age: the choice and organization of topics is IMHO less than ideal, but that can't be sufficiently addressed on a chapter-by-chapter basis, one needs to have a good overview of the whole project. This vastly increases the scope of the task. Sadly I can't see the status quo changing unless somebody wants to invest sufficient money in the project so that some of the independent contractors involved could schedule work on the book as an actual paying job. Hopefully one of two things will happen: * I will be proven wrong, or * such money will materialize somehow :-) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] The Zope Book
On Fri, Apr 08, 2005 at 05:41:30PM +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote: On Apr 8, 2005 5:22 PM, Paul Winkler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But that leaves unanswered questions - should we document the Five stuff at all, and if so, how? Well, the Five stuff is a subset of the Zope3 stuff, with way too much Zope2 stuff still necessary. The idea is that this should change quite rapidly and get more and more Zope3-ish and become less and less of a subset. So it may be that documenting it is a bit of a waste of time. I think the most realistic part is to rename the 2.7 book to 2.8, move ZClasses and DTML last, note that 2.8 includes some Zope3 support but don't document it. OK, but there should at least be a pointer to something to read for people wanting to get started with 2.8.0/Five. I haven't yet looked at any of the Five stuff. Is there at least a README? :) Then we'll concentrate on getting 2.9s Zope3 support to be more Zope3-ish, and documenting the differences into a Zope2.9 book. ;) Yes, I'm sure we will ;-) I don't have an overview of what needs to be done on the Zope book in general though. Well, the chapter-by-chapter editing is still not done. See http://plope.com/Books/zb_signup for an overview of the known tasks to be done. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] The Zope Book
On Apr 8, 2005 5:59 PM, Paul Winkler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, but there should at least be a pointer to something to read for people wanting to get started with 2.8.0/Five. I haven't yet looked at any of the Five stuff. Is there at least a README? :) Sure. I don't guarantee that it's remotely relevant, however. :-) Well, the chapter-by-chapter editing is still not done. See http://plope.com/Books/zb_signup for an overview of the known tasks to be done. OK, but that's better than expected, I'd say. :) It sais Finished on a whole bunch of chapters. -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/ ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] The Zope Book
On Fri, Apr 08, 2005 at 06:06:57PM +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote: On Apr 8, 2005 5:59 PM, Paul Winkler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, the chapter-by-chapter editing is still not done. See http://plope.com/Books/zb_signup for an overview of the known tasks to be done. OK, but that's better than expected, I'd say. :) It sais Finished on a whole bunch of chapters. Yep! But only about half. Current stats for anyone who cares: Finished15 In Progress 12 Not Started 1 Unclaimed 4 -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] The Zope Book
On Friday 08 April 2005 11:22, Paul Winkler wrote: The primary problem with the Zope Book is still the relative scarcity of resources (i.e. editors with time to work on it). The secondary problem with the Zope Book is that it's showing its age: the choice and organization of topics is IMHO less than ideal, but that can't be sufficiently addressed on a chapter-by-chapter basis, one needs to have a good overview of the whole project. This vastly increases the scope of the task. Note that my Zope 3 book is published under CC license. I could ask SAMS whether it would be okay to include parts (with proper reference and copyright notice) in the online version of the Zope 2 book. That will not document Five, but some of the component architecture. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope-dev] Zope Book at ZopeWiki.org
Andreas Jung wrote: Yeah...just had a look a zopewiki.org it seems to be a great place. I wonder why we were not able to built a such place there were it would belong to: zope.org? Indeed. I shall see if I can put some input there... Any chance ZopeWiki.org could become the master location for the book? It's got a much nicer UI than Zope.org... Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Book at ZopeWiki.org
On Thu, 2004-04-22 at 02:56, Chris Withers wrote: Any chance ZopeWiki.org could become the master location for the book? It's got a much nicer UI than Zope.org... Every few weeks or so I go and clean out (sometimes hundreds of) test and fglrldjksjds and you suck! comments in the BackTalk version of the book and I'm tremendously thankful at that point that I don't need to actually read the text to distinguish a comment from a canonical part of the book, but I still have the comment in-situ to see its context. Before the Zope.org transition, I had configured the books to be commentable only by authenticated users to make inane and content-free comments harder for people to make, but it still happened. When the transition was done, it turned out that authentication was no longer required, I didn't bother to turn it back on; I figured it's more important to lower the bar for commenters in order to get the best feedback possible anyway, so I just go clean it manually every so often and keep the good parts. It works pretty well, and I'm pretty happy with BackTalk for this purpose. Wikis are great for ad-hoc sorts of things but not so great when it's useful to maintain a distinct level of separation between reader and writer. I can also generate a PDF of the book at will from the BackTalk version, which I couldn't do (or at least I don't think I could do easily) with ZWiki. That said, I think zopewiki.org is a good thing and I encourage folks to contribute. If the Zope.org problems persist and I'm unable to find the time to fix them, I will host the development of the book somewhere else, but it will almost certainly be hosted with BackTalk. - C ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Book at ZopeWiki.org
From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Any chance ZopeWiki.org could become the master location for the book? It's gonna be hard to get a printable book out of a Wiki... ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Book at ZopeWiki.org
On Thursday 22 April 2004 03:31, Lennart Regebro wrote: Today 03:31:57 From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Any chance ZopeWiki.org could become the master location for the book? It's gonna be hard to get a printable book out of a Wiki... I tried this and I can tell you that a Wiki is not the right format for a book. While it lowers the entrance points, it is far too simplistic. I eventually changed my master to LaTeX, where I can add as much meta-data and other markup (especially for an index, which is crucial) easily and then I try to create Wiki-friendly STX files from that. When people change things in the Wiki, I use the diffs to update the masters. This turned out to be a very good move, since sometimes the corrections change the meaning of what I intended to say. Additionally, I can now always create a beautiful PDF in less than a minute. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] zope book volunteering
I am incredibly happy to report that many folks are signing up to edits chapters of the Zope Book in preparation for the upcoming Zope 2.6.1 release! It's really beating the cynicism out of me! ;-) As a matter of fact, so many people are signing up that I'm getting *multiple* submissions of the same chapters! While this is a wonderful problem to have, I don't want folks to waste effort doing something that somebody else has already committed to. I have put up a page documenting signups and current status for the editing effort at http://www.zope.org/DocProjects/zope_book_signups/index_html . Hopefully this will serve as a place that I can keep track of who is doing what. Here are the chapters in the 2.6 edition of the Zope Book ( http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/index_html ) that are not yet spoken for: Maintaining Zope Extending Zope (ZClasses) Advanced DTML Searching and Categorizing Content If anyone aspires to edit some Zope docs and get some fame and glory, the time is now. ;-) - C ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] zope book volunteering
On Wed, 2002-12-11 at 20:14, Chris McDonough wrote: Here are the chapters in the 2.6 edition of the Zope Book ( http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/index_html ) that are not yet spoken for: Maintaining Zope Extending Zope (ZClasses) Advanced DTML Searching and Categorizing Content Whoops! I think I made a mistake in the above. I think Bakhtiar Hamid picked up Extending Zope (maybe he can speak up if this isn't the case). ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Book call for assistance
Jeffrey P Shell wrote:
But SQL Method DTML is very very very very nice. It has a lot of type
enforcement/safety measures (ie - autoquoting SQL Strings, ensuring
that a 'sqlvar type=float' operation is inserting a float); a lot of
*very* nice features for generating 'where' clauses (the sqltest
'optional' flag and the smart 'dtml-and and dtml-or' tags that
won't render if an optional 'sqltest' preceding them was not
rendered); the 'sqltest multiple' feature is especially nice:
dtml-sqlgroup where
dtml-sqltest foo type=nb multiple optional
/dtml-sqlgroup
If foo is a blank string or empty list, that will render nothing.
If foo is a single string, that renders::
where foo = 'bar'
But if foo is a list of strings, that will render::
where foo in ('bar', 'baz')
Doing that programatically in Python is counterintuitive and awkward
(just as it was before the specialized 'dtml-sql___' tags in DTML).
For simple queries, doing it in the host programming language is not
bad. But for complex queries, it's very awkward to generate SQL.
It's almost as bad as generating HTML inside of a programming language
- it becomes difficult to maintain.
Yes, I think SQL methods are going to stick around. The downside is
there are some things that they SHOULD do that they dont, and that DTML
doesnt (to my knowledge) facilitate.
For example, dtml-sqltest foo type=nb ought to be able to check with
the underlying DA, and ask that DA to help it format its parameters.
Currently the render() method used by DTML seems to be presumed to be a
string, but what you want back is
(foo=:foo, ('foo',foo)) # or whatever all this foo foo sounds
like a poodle
so that any bind variables can be handled more efficiently by the DA.
Since each DA handles bind variables differently, it has to be involved
in the process to return a string with substitution text, and the value
to be substituted later. The DA's query method currently takes only a
string, but it should take a string and a concatenation of bind variables.
I remember looking at it and not wanting to get into trying to track
down where DTML would have to change to allow nonlinear results.
There may well be something in DTML processing that would make this
simple, I'm not very well versed on DTML processing internals.
--
Matt Kromer
Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com/
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Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Book call for assistance
On Saturday, December 7, 2002, at 04:11 AM, Tino Wildenhain wrote:
Hi Chris,
--On Freitag, 6. Dezember 2002 21:27 -0500 Chris McDonough
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, 2002-12-06 at 19:13, Tino Wildenhain wrote:
These are exactly the things you shouldn't neither do in DTML
nor in ZPT :-)
What do you suggest people use for a templating language for email,
JavaScript, SQL, etc? I think it's too much to expect them to use
Python to do this (esp. wrt SQL methods).
Oh, is it? I'd rather like to write %(name)s %(value)d
then dtml-whatever value
Recently I read the python-dbi spec and its very nice to see
what you could do with the above form. There are even
standard ways to do multiple querys or function calls.
(Hope I can contribute a product for this as time permits)
But SQL Method DTML is very very very very nice. It has a lot of type
enforcement/safety measures (ie - autoquoting SQL Strings, ensuring
that a 'sqlvar type=float' operation is inserting a float); a lot of
*very* nice features for generating 'where' clauses (the sqltest
'optional' flag and the smart 'dtml-and and dtml-or' tags that
won't render if an optional 'sqltest' preceding them was not rendered);
the 'sqltest multiple' feature is especially nice:
dtml-sqlgroup where
dtml-sqltest foo type=nb multiple optional
/dtml-sqlgroup
If foo is a blank string or empty list, that will render nothing.
If foo is a single string, that renders::
where foo = 'bar'
But if foo is a list of strings, that will render::
where foo in ('bar', 'baz')
Doing that programatically in Python is counterintuitive and awkward
(just as it was before the specialized 'dtml-sql___' tags in DTML).
For simple queries, doing it in the host programming language is not
bad. But for complex queries, it's very awkward to generate SQL. It's
almost as bad as generating HTML inside of a programming language - it
becomes difficult to maintain.
For E-Mail and Javascript templates I also find it less confusing
if I can use %(var)s form.
It's worth noting that there's a little known DTML format that's of
this style. Again - when doing simple insertion, %(var)s is not bad.
But once anything fancy comes into play - conditional insertion,
looping, etc - maintainability goes out the window when staying in the
host programming language. When I was evaluating Roundup
http://roundup.sf.net, I wanted to generate emails that looked as
good as the ones generated by Tracker. I had to write lines and lines
and lines of Python code to do it in order to replace a subclassed
method. There was no template that I could jigger around. (To be fair
to Roundup and Tracker both, I think customizing Tracker's email
messages is even harder).
I wouldn't mind seeing DTML.String re-emerge, which complements the
Python formatting string with DTML constructs to handle more advanced
templating needs. If you took a lot of the programming-language style
tags (dtml-try, dtml-return) out of DTML and normalized the expression
system (ie - to use TALES), you'd have a very usable system. The core
design concepts of DTML are good, it's just corrupted itself over the
years by stepping out of the plain-text templating language domain and
straddling the templating/programming language domains. DTML is even
used to generate DTML, by using the Extended Python Format String
syntax. This is how the 'Z Search Interface' custom reports are
generated.
As a general solution for texts one can use file which has an edit
tab for several releases of zope now. Then use it like this:
context.thefile.read() % context.REQUEST.form
or whatever seems appropriate to get values from.
E-Mail even gets clearer with the solution since you can easyly
loop and do whatever instead of multiple dtml-sendmail tags.
Life would be so much better if odd tags like dtml-sendmail could
just go away, and instead we had 'SMTP Methods' or something like that
- mail specific templates that are bound to a mailhost, with special
DTML tags (like the mime tag), similar to SQL Methods.
I love the SQL Method specific DTML tags. They make writing dynamic
SQL statements so easy, especially when compared to _any_ other system
that I've seen. It's a good showcase for DTML's ability to turn into a
domain specific templating language.
Regards
Tino
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Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Book call for assistance
DTML needs to be given the same amount of attention as it always has. For some bizarre reason, DTML makes sense in my headeven complicated logic... Doctor! Do I need help? It's one of the reasons I really liked Zope three years ago when starting with it The tag structure just made sense and was similar to a tool I used to get database calls and logic on a web page... Long live DTML!! - Original Message - From: Chris McDonough [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tino Wildenhain [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Book call for assistance erm... would advanced DTML not be the short sentence: avoid DTML where you can? ;) That'd be ok, except that DTML can of course do things that ZPT can't, yada yada yada. Btw. did you think of putting the whole DTML stuff at the end for reference only to help migrating old products and turn the whole thing a bit around so beginners get a clear path of Zope development? I found it a bit confusing when I edited the german translation of the 2.3 book a year ago. That's probably a good idea. But I think the rewritten chapters explain when to use ZPT and when to use DTML. And DTML still needs to be given some attention for the reason I say above... - C ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Book call for assistance
Hi Chris, --On Freitag, 6. Dezember 2002 21:27 -0500 Chris McDonough [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 2002-12-06 at 19:13, Tino Wildenhain wrote: These are exactly the things you shouldn't neither do in DTML nor in ZPT :-) What do you suggest people use for a templating language for email, JavaScript, SQL, etc? I think it's too much to expect them to use Python to do this (esp. wrt SQL methods). Oh, is it? I'd rather like to write %(name)s %(value)d then dtml-whatever value Recently I read the python-dbi spec and its very nice to see what you could do with the above form. There are even standard ways to do multiple querys or function calls. (Hope I can contribute a product for this as time permits) For E-Mail and Javascript templates I also find it less confusing if I can use %(var)s form. As a general solution for texts one can use file which has an edit tab for several releases of zope now. Then use it like this: context.thefile.read() % context.REQUEST.form or whatever seems appropriate to get values from. E-Mail even gets clearer with the solution since you can easyly loop and do whatever instead of multiple dtml-sendmail tags. Regards Tino I'd start the lessons with ZPT to only show static content and may be macros. Then the logical order would be introduction to python scripts without HTML output - only show how they are used to calculate and output simple values, lists, dictionaries and so on. Next chapter should show how one uses the scripts with ZPT to provide output into HTML. Then the usual things like Catalog, ZSQL, important API parts, etc. Don't you think this would be clearer for the beginner? Sure. I'd love to rewrite the entirety of the Zope Book. But please notice that I'm asking for help finishing the existing chapters, so I don't think this is a realistic goal. - C ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Book call for assistance
On Sat, 2002-12-07 at 06:11, Tino Wildenhain wrote: Hi Chris, --On Freitag, 6. Dezember 2002 21:27 -0500 Chris McDonough [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 2002-12-06 at 19:13, Tino Wildenhain wrote: These are exactly the things you shouldn't neither do in DTML nor in ZPT :-) What do you suggest people use for a templating language for email, JavaScript, SQL, etc? I think it's too much to expect them to use Python to do this (esp. wrt SQL methods). Oh, is it? I'd rather like to write %(name)s %(value)d then dtml-whatever value Recently I read the python-dbi spec and its very nice to see what you could do with the above form. There are even standard ways to do multiple querys or function calls. (Hope I can contribute a product for this as time permits) For E-Mail and Javascript templates I also find it less confusing if I can use %(var)s form. As a general solution for texts one can use file which has an edit tab for several releases of zope now. Then use it like this: context.thefile.read() % context.REQUEST.form or whatever seems appropriate to get values from. E-Mail even gets clearer with the solution since you can easyly loop and do whatever instead of multiple dtml-sendmail tags. The solution then would be to write several new chapters that talk about how to do this. - C ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Book call for assistance
Hi, --On Donnerstag, 5. Dezember 2002 23:20 -0500 Chris McDonough [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Advanced DTML: http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/AdvDTML.stx erm... would advanced DTML not be the short sentence: avoid DTML where you can? ;) Btw. did you think of putting the whole DTML stuff at the end for reference only to help migrating old products and turn the whole thing a bit around so beginners get a clear path of Zope development? I found it a bit confusing when I edited the german translation of the 2.3 book a year ago. Regards Tino ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Book call for assistance
erm... would advanced DTML not be the short sentence: avoid DTML where you can? ;) That'd be ok, except that DTML can of course do things that ZPT can't, yada yada yada. Btw. did you think of putting the whole DTML stuff at the end for reference only to help migrating old products and turn the whole thing a bit around so beginners get a clear path of Zope development? I found it a bit confusing when I edited the german translation of the 2.3 book a year ago. That's probably a good idea. But I think the rewritten chapters explain when to use ZPT and when to use DTML. And DTML still needs to be given some attention for the reason I say above... - C ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Book call for assistance
Hi Chris, --On Freitag, 6. Dezember 2002 09:50 -0500 Chris McDonough [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: erm... would advanced DTML not be the short sentence: avoid DTML where you can? ;) That'd be ok, except that DTML can of course do things that ZPT can't, yada yada yada. These are exactly the things you shouldn't neither do in DTML nor in ZPT :-) I'd start the lessons with ZPT to only show static content and may be macros. Then the logical order would be introduction to python scripts without HTML output - only show how they are used to calculate and output simple values, lists, dictionaries and so on. Next chapter should show how one uses the scripts with ZPT to provide output into HTML. Then the usual things like Catalog, ZSQL, important API parts, etc. Don't you think this would be clearer for the beginner? Regards Tino Btw. did you think of putting the whole DTML stuff at the end for reference only to help migrating old products and turn the whole thing a bit around so beginners get a clear path of Zope development? I found it a bit confusing when I edited the german translation of the 2.3 book a year ago. That's probably a good idea. But I think the rewritten chapters explain when to use ZPT and when to use DTML. And DTML still needs to be given some attention for the reason I say above... - C ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Book call for assistance
On Fri, 2002-12-06 at 19:13, Tino Wildenhain wrote: These are exactly the things you shouldn't neither do in DTML nor in ZPT :-) What do you suggest people use for a templating language for email, JavaScript, SQL, etc? I think it's too much to expect them to use Python to do this (esp. wrt SQL methods). I'd start the lessons with ZPT to only show static content and may be macros. Then the logical order would be introduction to python scripts without HTML output - only show how they are used to calculate and output simple values, lists, dictionaries and so on. Next chapter should show how one uses the scripts with ZPT to provide output into HTML. Then the usual things like Catalog, ZSQL, important API parts, etc. Don't you think this would be clearer for the beginner? Sure. I'd love to rewrite the entirety of the Zope Book. But please notice that I'm asking for help finishing the existing chapters, so I don't think this is a realistic goal. - C ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Zope Book call for assistance
Hi, Time has rolled around for me to ask for assistance with editing the most recent edition of the Zope Book. A 2.6 edition of the Zope Book exists at http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/index_html. It has many new chapters and a most existing chapters have been rewritten and extended. But it's not finished and I'd really like this Zope Book edition to be the current edition by the time Zope 2.6.1 comes out. If anyone has the time and inclination to edit and extend one of the following chapters of the 2.6 edition Zope Book, you will be rewarded with a glowing mention in the Preface of the book. If you professionally edit two chapters, you'll be considered a coauthor and your name will go on the header. That'd be nice on a resume, I'd imagine. Maintaining Zope: http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/MaintainingZope.stx Extending Zope (ZClasses): http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/CustomZopeObjects.stx Relational Database Connectivity: http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/RelationalDatabases.stx Users and Security: http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/Security.stx Advanced DTML: http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/AdvDTML.stx Searching and Categorizing Content (ZCatalog): http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/SearchingZCatalog.stx Advanced Zope Scripting: http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/ScriptingZope.stx Editing and extending these chapters means: - Downloading the source version of the chapter via the STX source link at the top of the page. - Addressing all the comments in the section (by deleting the extraneous ones and answering via narrative in the document the meaningful ones). - Extending the chapter based on your own personal experience. - Optionally re-screenshotting and renumbering the figures based on the format of the already re-screenshotted Basic Objects chapter (I can do this as well if you can't, as long as I know what needs to be done). - Sending the edited source back to me for inclusion into the Book. Thanks much! - C ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Zope book now in public CVS
Greetings! The Zope book is now available in raw (structured text) format in a sourceforge CVS repository. We are also using SF's bug tracking and other tools to allow you better report problems to us than just email. If you'd like to check the book out of CVS, follow the instructions on this page under 'Anonymous CVS Access': http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=21038 What does this do for you? Well, first off, if you see problems in the book and you'd like to fix them, you can submit a patch to us instead of an email "describing" your suggested fix in prose. This is much more accurate for us to see the problem you point out. Tracking patches also gives us a nice mechanism for making sure we give patch-submitters honorable mention in the book! Also, some people may want to distribute the book (in accordance with the OPL license, or course) in some format we don't support yet, like LaTeX or Word (yes, PDF is coming, we're working on it!). With "the source" you are free to go about converting the content into whatever format you'd like. Lastly, although we try to keep the site as in-sync as possible with the CVS, the latest and greatest bug changes to the book may be found in CVS, where the web-site may lag a few days behind. So check it out, and enjoy. -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope] Signed Zope Book Winners
Last week we announced a content to win free, signed copies of the book for finding errors in the book releated to calling a Script a Method. We have winners! Thanks folks, there are real bugs my eyes missed, and we've fixed them all. As soon as the book hits our local shelves, we'll get your signed copies in the mail. Here are the official winners! o "jimbo" o M. Adam Kendall o Jason Cunliffe o Lalo Martins o Jochen Knuth o Holger Hoffmann o "Bak@kedai" o Magnus Heino We'll be contacting the winners by email. If I sent you an email saying you *did* win and you're not in this list, fwd: it back to me and we'll get you a book, you may have slipped through the cracks (my mail filtering isn't all that hot). Please do *not* send it to the zope list, cuz then my filters send it off to the big pile that I don't read that often. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Book Question: 'context' doesn't work in PythonMethods
On Mon, 20 Nov 2000, Shane Hathaway wrote: They are using an unreleased version of the Python Methods product. AFAIK the only thing holding up the release of the new Python Methods is the renaming. (I believe the version in question is available from the public CVS repository, as the Products/DC/PythonMethod module.) (Ken) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope] OT Zope book images - PDF
In light of all the hubbub about the Zope book, I thought I would try and make my own copy of it in PDF format (just for me, of course). I'm finding that Acrobat doesn't know how to convert the PNG image file type used in the Zope Book. (or rather, I don't know how to get it to work !) Anyone know how to get png files into Acrobat? Oh, I'm trying to use their 'Open Web Page' method of creating the document. Is there another/better way that will get the png images? Thanks, Eric. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] OT Zope book images - PDF
Eric, I got Acrobat to recognise the png's by first loading the html nto msword and then 'printing' the PDF from there. hth Phil - Original Message - From: "Eric Walstad" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 12:58 AM Subject: [Zope] OT Zope book images - PDF | In light of all the hubbub about the Zope book, I thought I would try and | make my own copy of it in PDF format (just for me, of course). I'm finding | that Acrobat doesn't know how to convert the PNG image file type used in the | Zope Book. (or rather, I don't know how to get it to work !) Anyone know | how to get png files into Acrobat? Oh, I'm trying to use their 'Open Web | Page' method of creating the document. Is there another/better way that | will get the png images? | Thanks, | Eric. | | | ___ | Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope | ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** | (Related lists - | http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce | http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Wolfgang Strobl wrote: On 30 Oct 2000, 17:32 Michel Pelletier wrote: Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the Zope Book Beta. [...] Great! For my own use, I'Ve just created a fully indexed MS-Windows HTMHelp-Version, see http://www.zope.org/Members/strobl, that I want to share with others doing Zope work on that platform. I believe that O'Reilly doesn't want the book redistributed before it is printed. I'll recheck with them. Take a look at the copyright stuff info on each page. Luckily the book will soon be under an open content license, and then you'll be free to do what ever you wish. Thanks for taking a look at the book! -Amos -- Amos Latteier mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
On 31 Oct 2000, at 10:39, Amos Latteier wrote: I believe that O'Reilly doesn't want the book redistributed before it is printed. It's gone. I'll recheck with them. No need to. But what is the meaning of This is the one to print out and give to your friends as christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at." in the announcement? Take a look at the copyright stuff info on each page. didn't restribute it, I uploaded the same content in a different format to the very same site I got it from: www.zope.org. -- Wolfgang Strobl ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Wolfgang Strobl wrote: On 31 Oct 2000, at 10:39, Amos Latteier wrote: I believe that O'Reilly doesn't want the book redistributed before it is printed. It's gone. I'll recheck with them. No need to. But what is the meaning of This is the one to print out and give to your friends as christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at." in the announcement? That was a joke. Sorry. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
On 31 Oct 2000, at 12:54, Michel Pelletier wrote: That was a joke. Sorry. Uh, oh. Well, my thought was as follows: people are already annoucing making PDF versions, which are a much greater potential harm to to the number of sales of a printed book.With a good pdf file, I can get to my local prinshop and get a perfect bounded book back within half an hour. On the other hand, a MS HTML help file is of little use other than having a compact, searchable file which fits well into a development environment on Windows. Frankly, I can't see how these could do any harm to selling your book. To the contrary; I tend to beleive that having a properly indexed and tightly integrated online format might even might help selling the book. For example; I have HTML help versions _and_ printed copies of the - outdated - Zope docs, and one of each from the actual howto-collection, and I'm using them both. -- Wolfgang Strobl ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
At 10/31/00 11:08 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote: For example; I have HTML help versions _and_ printed copies of the - outdated - Zope docs, and one of each from the actual howto-collection, and I'm using them both. Wolfgang - How about putting up your HTML help version of the howto-collection? That would be very cool. Thanks! -- Dennis Nichols [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Wolfgang Strobl wrote: On 31 Oct 2000, at 12:54, Michel Pelletier wrote: That was a joke. Sorry. Uh, oh. Well, my thought was as follows: people are already annoucing making PDF versions, which are a much greater potential harm to to the number of sales of a printed book.With a good pdf file, I can get to my local prinshop and get a perfect bounded book back within half an hour. On the other hand, a MS HTML help file is of little use other than having a compact, searchable file which fits well into a development environment on Windows. Frankly, I can't see how these could do any harm to selling your book. To the contrary; I tend to beleive that having a properly indexed and tightly integrated online format might even might help selling the book. I certainly can't speak for O'Rielly, but I can take a guess at their logic. It goes something like this: If people begin reproducing copies of the book, in PDF, HTML Help, whatever form, and distributing it, they will soon be all over the net. It is not in its finished form. It may have misspellings, or technical errors that will (hopefully) be corrected before publication. When the final version comes out, will they be able to guarantee that all old copies of the book are updated with the final version? If someone downloads a copy with a lot of errors, and gets a bad impression of the book, is that fair to O'Reilly, given that it was not the final version they were looking at? If we simply wait until its final before reproducing it, this becomes much easier to manage. At least, that's my $0.02. Wolfgang Strobl --Jeff --- Jeff K. Hoffman 704.849.0731 x108 Chief Technology Officer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Going Virtual, L.L.C. http://www.goingv.com/ ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] New Zope Book
Hi, when do you think there will be the first part of the O'Reilly-book be online?? I thought in August there should be partly online. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
