Re: [Zope] Using Zope and Worldpilot on a large site
Bill Anderson wrote: Paolo Bizzarri wrote: Hi Zopers, we would like to use Zope for an ISP, with more than 400.000 customers. Zope would be used with Worldpilot, in order to provide Webmail, Calendar, to do, etc. THis demonstrates a problem or two with Worldpilot. I would defintiely _not_ use worldpilot in that setting. Why not? Well, the sharing capability (IIRC) gives a list of people on the system you can share with. Think about that for a moment. Four hundred thousand people. One list. It would be nice if it were possible for people to not appear in the list, and for there to be groups. Yes, this is a problem. As a first step, we are going to remove sharing from Worldpilot (disabling it). Then we would like to give customers the possibility to "create" their own groups and subgroups, so that they can build their own "company-on-the-web". Has anyone tried the scalability of Zope till this level ? Well, what you are describing really isn't a test of Zope's scaleability. , but rather workdpilots (and the machines's). Zope's scalability in this case is more a matter of resource usage, than a funtion of the number of users. Thats is to say, what is the expected load of the machine/site. 400,000 users will not access all at once, will they? Zope can be scaled accross multiple machines, through the use of ZEO, so if your load gets too high, you can move to a ZEO solution, adding machines as neccessary. As far as I can understand, ZEO is still in alpha/beta stage, so I am not sure to use it immediately. One caveat to that is that worldpilot stores data on the filesystem, so that data would need replicated accross the sites. Perhaps NFS or Coda could server this function. There is one more problem. Worldpilot create a directory for each user. For 400.000 users this means 400.000 directories, which is not nice for Linux+ext2 (and in general I am not sure I want a directory with 400.000 files inside). So we are considering either hacking WP, so that it creates something like a p/a/paolo directory for the paolo user, or moving data to a relational database. The latter could be the preferred solution, but it could become a too long step right now. So probably we are going to use the former. BTW, I have seen WP has the directory /var/spool/worldpilot that is hard coded into the code. Perhaps we could create a configuration file for WP, in which one can specify these directories. Ciao Paolo -- Paolo Bizzarri - Responsabile Marketing I3 Icube Srl Sede: Via Ridolfi 15 - 56124 Pisa (PI), Italia E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: www.icube.it Tel:(+39) 050 97 02 07 Fax: (+39) 050 31 36 588 ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Using Zope and Worldpilot on a large site
Paolo Bizzarri wrote: Bill Anderson wrote: Paolo Bizzarri wrote: Hi Zopers, we would like to use Zope for an ISP, with more than 400.000 customers. Zope would be used with Worldpilot, in order to provide Webmail, Calendar, to do, etc. THis demonstrates a problem or two with Worldpilot. I would defintiely _not_ use worldpilot in that setting. Why not? Well, the sharing capability (IIRC) gives a list of people on the system you can share with. Think about that for a moment. Four hundred thousand people. One list. It would be nice if it were possible for people to not appear in the list, and for there to be groups. Yes, this is a problem. As a first step, we are going to remove sharing from Worldpilot (disabling it). Then we would like to give customers the possibility to "create" their own groups and subgroups, so that they can build their own "company-on-the-web". Cool. Has anyone tried the scalability of Zope till this level ? Well, what you are describing really isn't a test of Zope's scaleability. , but rather workdpilots (and the machines's). Zope's scalability in this case is more a matter of resource usage, than a funtion of the number of users. Thats is to say, what is the expected load of the machine/site. 400,000 users will not access all at once, will they? Zope can be scaled accross multiple machines, through the use of ZEO, so if your load gets too high, you can move to a ZEO solution, adding machines as neccessary. As far as I can understand, ZEO is still in alpha/beta stage, so I am not sure to use it immediately. That is stur aboiut the stage, but seems to be more One caveat to that is that worldpilot stores data on the filesystem, so that data would need replicated accross the sites. Perhaps NFS or Coda could server this function. There is one more problem. Worldpilot create a directory for each user. For 400.000 users this means 400.000 directories, which is not nice for Linux+ext2 (and in general I am not sure I want a directory with 400.000 files inside). Linux+ReiserFS ;^) So we are considering either hacking WP, so that it creates something like a p/a/paolo directory for the paolo user, or moving data to a relational database. The latter could be the preferred solution, but it could become a too long step right now. So probably we are going to use the former. I agree this is another issue of WP. Perhaps if it was modified to use ZPatterns ... BTW, I have seen WP has the directory /var/spool/worldpilot that is hard coded into the code. Perhaps we could create a configuration file for WP, in which one can specify these directories. Yeah, this is one of the my issues with WP. It just seems to be counter to the precepts of Zope and Linux to hard code this stuff. The other is that user login information is stored on the hard drive in plaintext. Ciao Paolo -- Paolo Bizzarri - Responsabile Marketing I3 Icube Srl Sede: Via Ridolfi 15 - 56124 Pisa (PI), Italia E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: www.icube.it Tel:(+39) 050 97 02 07 Fax: (+39) 050 31 36 588 -- Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are easy to annoy, and have the root password. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Using Zope and Worldpilot on a large site
Paolo Bizzarri wrote: Hi Zopers, we would like to use Zope for an ISP, with more than 400.000 customers. Zope would be used with Worldpilot, in order to provide Webmail, Calendar, to do, etc. THis demonstrates a problem or two with Worldpilot. I would defintiely _not_ use worldpilot in that setting. Why not? Well, the sharing capability (IIRC) gives a list of people on the system you can share with. Think about that for a moment. Four hundred thousand people. One list. It would be nice if it were possible for people to not appear in the list, and for there to be groups. THe way I would see that working is that by default, a user is not liste din the sharing options, and has a checkbox to change it. Then, they could be seperated by groups, either on some algorithm, or by other logical divisions (marketing, webusers, RD). Has anyone tried the scalability of Zope till this level ? Well, what you are describing really isn't a test of Zope's scaleability. , but rather workdpilots (and the machines's). Zope's scalability in this case is more a matter of resource usage, than a funtion of the number of users. Thats is to say, what is the expected load of the machine/site. 400,000 users will not access all at once, will they? Zope can be scaled accross multiple machines, through the use of ZEO, so if your load gets too high, you can move to a ZEO solution, adding machines as neccessary. One caveat to that is that worldpilot stores data on the filesystem, so that data would need replicated accross the sites. Perhaps NFS or Coda could server this function. Well, I'll stop rambling now. ;) Many thanks in advance Paolo -- Paolo Bizzarri - Responsabile Marketing I3 Icube Srl Sede: Via Ridolfi 15 - 56124 Pisa (PI), Italia E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: www.icube.it Tel:(+39) 050 97 02 07 Fax: (+39) 050 31 36 588 ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) -- Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are easy to annoy, and have the root password. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
