Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql

2008-11-11 Thread Miguel Beltran R.

  The official message for newbies is likely: use ZPT.

 Andreas


This is what missing in the first response

My error was not say what I have with my system 4 years
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Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql

2008-11-09 Thread Garry Saddington
On Saturday 08 November 2008 21:59, Tim Nash wrote:
 +1
 Well spoken. It is painful to see all the cheers for django templates when
 dtml has been around longer and is just as good, maybe better.
Just had a look. They do the same as dtml but with less functionality. Amusing 
that something that is dead in one system is the best thing since sliced 
bread in another!
I too appreciate all the work that goes into maintaining Zope, thanks Andreas, 
long may you continue your contributions.
Regards
Garry
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Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql

2008-11-09 Thread Andreas Jung

On 09.11.2008 12:17 Uhr, Garry Saddington wrote:

On Saturday 08 November 2008 21:59, Tim Nash wrote:

+1
Well spoken. It is painful to see all the cheers for django templates when
dtml has been around longer and is just as good, maybe better.

Just had a look. They do the same as dtml but with less functionality. Amusing
that something that is dead in one system is the best thing since sliced
bread in another!
I too appreciate all the work that goes into maintaining Zope, thanks Andreas,
long may you continue your contributions.


Guys, please calm down :-) Nobody told you that we are going to take 
DTML away. The point is pretty easy: if you are new to Zope then there 
is very little reason to get in touch with DTML (other than for ZSQL 
methods). ZPT is recommendation for generating markup for years. It is 
well maintained and documented and adopted. We should not throw newbies 
into the  DTML hell - if you use it for legacy reasons or whatever 
reason, fine. The official message for newbies is likely: use ZPT.


Andreas
begin:vcard
fn:Andreas Jung
n:Jung;Andreas
org:ZOPYX Ltd.  Co. KG
adr;quoted-printable:;;Charlottenstr. 37/1;T=C3=BCbingen;;72070;Germany
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:CEO
tel;work:+49-7071-793376
tel;fax:+49-7071-7936840
tel;home:+49-7071-793257
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:www.zopyx.com
version:2.1
end:vcard

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Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql

2008-11-08 Thread Garry Saddington
On Saturday 08 November 2008 06:21, Andreas Jung wrote:
 Any particular reason for using DTML instead of ZPT? DTML is dead.
Firstly let me say that I do not wish to relight the ZPT vs DTML argument, 
only to make a few points.

I find this an extraordinary attitude coming from someone so important to this 
community. I am sure there are many developments out there relying on DTML 
and I am also sure that the developers are earning a living from those 
developments. Will employers be happy that the technology used for their 
sites is dead ? Will they continue to pay these developers?

Can you give one reason why DTML is bad that is not based on personal 
preference, presentation tools or the cognitive ability of developers to 
understand where variables are coming from? Does it not work if used 
properly?

If someone comes to Zope and prefers to use DTML then let him, don't criticise 
instead of help him. Zope is a fantastic piece of software, however it is 
used, and its use should be encouraged.

I prefer DTML and always have done and always will, no matter what this list 
says and I am sure there are many more like me. DTML is available and is 
used, let's support it properly on this list.

While I was learning Zope I had many questions, but I had to work most of them 
out myself, not wanting to get lambasted again on this list for using DTML. 
If help was more forthcoming I'm sure that I would have learned more quickly 
rather than in relative isolation.

Is the ZMI going to be re-written using ZPT?


Regards
Garry
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Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql

2008-11-08 Thread Kees de Brabander
+1
cb 

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Garry
Saddington
Verzonden: zaterdag 8 november 2008 12:54
Aan: zope@zope.org
Onderwerp: Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql

On Saturday 08 November 2008 06:21, Andreas Jung wrote:
 Any particular reason for using DTML instead of ZPT? DTML is dead.
Firstly let me say that I do not wish to relight the ZPT vs DTML argument,
only to make a few points.

I find this an extraordinary attitude coming from someone so important to
this community. I am sure there are many developments out there relying on
DTML and I am also sure that the developers are earning a living from those
developments. Will employers be happy that the technology used for their
sites is dead ? Will they continue to pay these developers?

Can you give one reason why DTML is bad that is not based on personal
preference, presentation tools or the cognitive ability of developers to
understand where variables are coming from? Does it not work if used
properly?

If someone comes to Zope and prefers to use DTML then let him, don't
criticise instead of help him. Zope is a fantastic piece of software,
however it is used, and its use should be encouraged.

I prefer DTML and always have done and always will, no matter what this list
says and I am sure there are many more like me. DTML is available and is
used, let's support it properly on this list.

While I was learning Zope I had many questions, but I had to work most of
them out myself, not wanting to get lambasted again on this list for using
DTML. 
If help was more forthcoming I'm sure that I would have learned more quickly
rather than in relative isolation.

Is the ZMI going to be re-written using ZPT?


Regards
Garry
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Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql

2008-11-08 Thread Tim Nash
+1
Well spoken. It is painful to see all the cheers for django templates when
dtml has been around longer and is just as good, maybe better.

ZPT may also be fantastic but I haven't needed them yet. They seem to be
designed to solve web editing problems circa 2002.

-Tim


On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Kees de Brabander 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 +1
 cb

 -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
 Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Garry
 Saddington
 Verzonden: zaterdag 8 november 2008 12:54
 Aan: zope@zope.org
 Onderwerp: Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql

 On Saturday 08 November 2008 06:21, Andreas Jung wrote:
  Any particular reason for using DTML instead of ZPT? DTML is dead.
 Firstly let me say that I do not wish to relight the ZPT vs DTML argument,
 only to make a few points.

 I find this an extraordinary attitude coming from someone so important to
 this community. I am sure there are many developments out there relying on
 DTML and I am also sure that the developers are earning a living from those
 developments. Will employers be happy that the technology used for their
 sites is dead ? Will they continue to pay these developers?

 Can you give one reason why DTML is bad that is not based on personal
 preference, presentation tools or the cognitive ability of developers to
 understand where variables are coming from? Does it not work if used
 properly?

 If someone comes to Zope and prefers to use DTML then let him, don't
 criticise instead of help him. Zope is a fantastic piece of software,
 however it is used, and its use should be encouraged.

 I prefer DTML and always have done and always will, no matter what this
 list
 says and I am sure there are many more like me. DTML is available and is
 used, let's support it properly on this list.

 While I was learning Zope I had many questions, but I had to work most of
 them out myself, not wanting to get lambasted again on this list for using
 DTML.
 If help was more forthcoming I'm sure that I would have learned more
 quickly
 rather than in relative isolation.

 Is the ZMI going to be re-written using ZPT?


 Regards
 Garry
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 9:56

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Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql

2008-11-08 Thread Tim Nash
BTW,  Andreas,  It is probably extra work to maintain both ZPT  and DTML in
each Zope release. We want you to know that we appreciate the extra work and
your skills.
:)




On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Allen Schmidt Sr. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  +1
 We love zope on our site and continue to build new things almost daily and
 all with DTML and ZSQL.  Not a single line of ZPT anywhere within our 7gb
 Data.fs that has been making us all money and employing many folks for
 almost 8 years now as a newspaper website. AND in the birthplace of Zope
 www.Fredericksburg.com/Virginia/  8^)

 Cheers!
 -Allen



 Tim Nash wrote:

 +1
 Well spoken. It is painful to see all the cheers for django templates when
 dtml has been around longer and is just as good, maybe better.

 ZPT may also be fantastic but I haven't needed them yet. They seem to be
 designed to solve web editing problems circa 2002.

 -Tim


 On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Kees de Brabander 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 +1
 cb

 -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
 Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Garry
 Saddington
 Verzonden: zaterdag 8 november 2008 12:54
 Aan: zope@zope.org
 Onderwerp: Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql

 On Saturday 08 November 2008 06:21, Andreas Jung wrote:
  Any particular reason for using DTML instead of ZPT? DTML is dead.
 Firstly let me say that I do not wish to relight the ZPT vs DTML argument,
 only to make a few points.

 I find this an extraordinary attitude coming from someone so important to
 this community. I am sure there are many developments out there relying on
 DTML and I am also sure that the developers are earning a living from
 those
 developments. Will employers be happy that the technology used for their
 sites is dead ? Will they continue to pay these developers?

 Can you give one reason why DTML is bad that is not based on personal
 preference, presentation tools or the cognitive ability of developers to
 understand where variables are coming from? Does it not work if used
 properly?

 If someone comes to Zope and prefers to use DTML then let him, don't
 criticise instead of help him. Zope is a fantastic piece of software,
 however it is used, and its use should be encouraged.

 I prefer DTML and always have done and always will, no matter what this
 list
 says and I am sure there are many more like me. DTML is available and is
 used, let's support it properly on this list.

 While I was learning Zope I had many questions, but I had to work most of
 them out myself, not wanting to get lambasted again on this list for using
 DTML.
 If help was more forthcoming I'm sure that I would have learned more
 quickly
 rather than in relative isolation.

 Is the ZMI going to be re-written using ZPT?


 Regards
 Garry
 ___
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 http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
 **   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
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 Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
 Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1775 - Release Date: 8-11-2008
 9:56

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Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql

2008-11-08 Thread Allen Schmidt Sr.




+1
We love zope on our site and continue to build new things almost daily
and all with DTML and ZSQL. Not a single line of ZPT anywhere within
our 7gb Data.fs that has been making us all money and employing many
folks for almost 8 years now as a newspaper website. AND in the
birthplace of Zope www.Fredericksburg.com/Virginia/ 8^)

Cheers!
-Allen



Tim Nash wrote:
+1
Well spoken. It is painful to see all the cheers for django templates
when dtml has been around longer and is just as good, maybe better.
  
ZPT may also be fantastic but I haven't needed them yet. They seem to
be designed to solve web editing problems circa 2002.
  
-Tim
  
  
  On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Kees de
Brabander [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
  +1
cb

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Namens Garry
Saddington
Verzonden: zaterdag 8 november 2008 12:54
Aan: zope@zope.org
Onderwerp: Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql


On Saturday 08 November 2008 06:21, Andreas Jung wrote:
 Any particular reason for using DTML instead of ZPT? DTML is dead.
Firstly let me say that I do not wish to relight the ZPT vs DTML
argument,
only to make a few points.

I find this an extraordinary attitude coming from someone so important
to
this community. I am sure there are many developments out there relying
on
DTML and I am also sure that the developers are earning a living from
those
developments. Will employers be happy that the technology used for their
sites is "dead" ? Will they continue to pay these developers?

Can you give one reason why DTML is bad that is not based on personal
preference, presentation tools or the cognitive ability of developers to
understand where variables are coming from? Does it not work if used
properly?

If someone comes to Zope and prefers to use DTML then let him, don't
criticise instead of help him. Zope is a fantastic piece of software,
however it is used, and its use should be encouraged.

I prefer DTML and always have done and always will, no matter what this
list
says and I am sure there are many more like me. DTML is available and is
used, let's support it properly on this list.

While I was learning Zope I had many questions, but I had to work most
of
them out myself, not wanting to get lambasted again on this list for
using
DTML.
If help was more forthcoming I'm sure that I would have learned more
quickly
rather than in relative isolation.

Is the ZMI going to be re-written using ZPT?


Regards
Garry
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9:56


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Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql

2008-11-08 Thread Allen Schmidt Sr.




Of course!! That goes without saying, but I guess it does not get said
often enough. Thanks to all you hard working contributors who keep DTML
alive!!!
-Allen

Tim Nash wrote:
BTW, Andreas, It is probably extra work to maintain both
ZPT and DTML in each Zope release. We want you to know that we
appreciate the extra work and your skills.
:)
  
  
  
  
  On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Allen
Schmidt Sr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
  

+1
We love zope on our site and continue to build new things almost daily
and all with DTML and ZSQL. Not a single line of ZPT anywhere within
our 7gb Data.fs that has been making us all money and employing many
folks for almost 8 years now as a newspaper website. AND in the
birthplace of Zope www.Fredericksburg.com/Virginia/
8^)

Cheers!
-Allen



Tim Nash wrote:

  
  +1
Well spoken. It is painful to see all the cheers for django templates
when dtml has been around longer and is just as good, maybe better.
  
ZPT may also be fantastic but I haven't needed them yet. They seem to
be designed to solve web editing problems circa 2002.
  
-Tim
  
  
  On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Kees de
Brabander [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
  +1
cb

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Namens Garry
Saddington
Verzonden: zaterdag 8 november 2008 12:54
Aan: zope@zope.org
Onderwerp: Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql


On Saturday 08 November 2008 06:21, Andreas Jung wrote:
 Any particular reason for using DTML instead of ZPT? DTML is dead.
Firstly let me say that I do not wish to relight the ZPT vs DTML
argument,
only to make a few points.

I find this an extraordinary attitude coming from someone so important
to
this community. I am sure there are many developments out there relying
on
DTML and I am also sure that the developers are earning a living from
those
developments. Will employers be happy that the technology used for their
sites is "dead" ? Will they continue to pay these developers?

Can you give one reason why DTML is bad that is not based on personal
preference, presentation tools or the cognitive ability of developers to
understand where variables are coming from? Does it not work if used
properly?

If someone comes to Zope and prefers to use DTML then let him, don't
criticise instead of help him. Zope is a fantastic piece of software,
however it is used, and its use should be encouraged.

I prefer DTML and always have done and always will, no matter what this
list
says and I am sure there are many more like me. DTML is available and is
used, let's support it properly on this list.

While I was learning Zope I had many questions, but I had to work most
of
them out myself, not wanting to get lambasted again on this list for
using
DTML.
If help was more forthcoming I'm sure that I would have learned more
quickly
rather than in relative isolation.

Is the ZMI going to be re-written using ZPT?


Regards
Garry
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