Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql
The official message for newbies is likely: use ZPT. Andreas This is what missing in the first response My error was not say what I have with my system 4 years ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql
On Saturday 08 November 2008 21:59, Tim Nash wrote: +1 Well spoken. It is painful to see all the cheers for django templates when dtml has been around longer and is just as good, maybe better. Just had a look. They do the same as dtml but with less functionality. Amusing that something that is dead in one system is the best thing since sliced bread in another! I too appreciate all the work that goes into maintaining Zope, thanks Andreas, long may you continue your contributions. Regards Garry ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql
On 09.11.2008 12:17 Uhr, Garry Saddington wrote: On Saturday 08 November 2008 21:59, Tim Nash wrote: +1 Well spoken. It is painful to see all the cheers for django templates when dtml has been around longer and is just as good, maybe better. Just had a look. They do the same as dtml but with less functionality. Amusing that something that is dead in one system is the best thing since sliced bread in another! I too appreciate all the work that goes into maintaining Zope, thanks Andreas, long may you continue your contributions. Guys, please calm down :-) Nobody told you that we are going to take DTML away. The point is pretty easy: if you are new to Zope then there is very little reason to get in touch with DTML (other than for ZSQL methods). ZPT is recommendation for generating markup for years. It is well maintained and documented and adopted. We should not throw newbies into the DTML hell - if you use it for legacy reasons or whatever reason, fine. The official message for newbies is likely: use ZPT. Andreas begin:vcard fn:Andreas Jung n:Jung;Andreas org:ZOPYX Ltd. Co. KG adr;quoted-printable:;;Charlottenstr. 37/1;T=C3=BCbingen;;72070;Germany email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:CEO tel;work:+49-7071-793376 tel;fax:+49-7071-7936840 tel;home:+49-7071-793257 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.zopyx.com version:2.1 end:vcard ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql
On Saturday 08 November 2008 06:21, Andreas Jung wrote: Any particular reason for using DTML instead of ZPT? DTML is dead. Firstly let me say that I do not wish to relight the ZPT vs DTML argument, only to make a few points. I find this an extraordinary attitude coming from someone so important to this community. I am sure there are many developments out there relying on DTML and I am also sure that the developers are earning a living from those developments. Will employers be happy that the technology used for their sites is dead ? Will they continue to pay these developers? Can you give one reason why DTML is bad that is not based on personal preference, presentation tools or the cognitive ability of developers to understand where variables are coming from? Does it not work if used properly? If someone comes to Zope and prefers to use DTML then let him, don't criticise instead of help him. Zope is a fantastic piece of software, however it is used, and its use should be encouraged. I prefer DTML and always have done and always will, no matter what this list says and I am sure there are many more like me. DTML is available and is used, let's support it properly on this list. While I was learning Zope I had many questions, but I had to work most of them out myself, not wanting to get lambasted again on this list for using DTML. If help was more forthcoming I'm sure that I would have learned more quickly rather than in relative isolation. Is the ZMI going to be re-written using ZPT? Regards Garry ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql
+1 cb -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Garry Saddington Verzonden: zaterdag 8 november 2008 12:54 Aan: zope@zope.org Onderwerp: Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql On Saturday 08 November 2008 06:21, Andreas Jung wrote: Any particular reason for using DTML instead of ZPT? DTML is dead. Firstly let me say that I do not wish to relight the ZPT vs DTML argument, only to make a few points. I find this an extraordinary attitude coming from someone so important to this community. I am sure there are many developments out there relying on DTML and I am also sure that the developers are earning a living from those developments. Will employers be happy that the technology used for their sites is dead ? Will they continue to pay these developers? Can you give one reason why DTML is bad that is not based on personal preference, presentation tools or the cognitive ability of developers to understand where variables are coming from? Does it not work if used properly? If someone comes to Zope and prefers to use DTML then let him, don't criticise instead of help him. Zope is a fantastic piece of software, however it is used, and its use should be encouraged. I prefer DTML and always have done and always will, no matter what this list says and I am sure there are many more like me. DTML is available and is used, let's support it properly on this list. While I was learning Zope I had many questions, but I had to work most of them out myself, not wanting to get lambasted again on this list for using DTML. If help was more forthcoming I'm sure that I would have learned more quickly rather than in relative isolation. Is the ZMI going to be re-written using ZPT? Regards Garry ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1775 - Release Date: 8-11-2008 9:56 ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql
+1 Well spoken. It is painful to see all the cheers for django templates when dtml has been around longer and is just as good, maybe better. ZPT may also be fantastic but I haven't needed them yet. They seem to be designed to solve web editing problems circa 2002. -Tim On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Kees de Brabander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 cb -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Garry Saddington Verzonden: zaterdag 8 november 2008 12:54 Aan: zope@zope.org Onderwerp: Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql On Saturday 08 November 2008 06:21, Andreas Jung wrote: Any particular reason for using DTML instead of ZPT? DTML is dead. Firstly let me say that I do not wish to relight the ZPT vs DTML argument, only to make a few points. I find this an extraordinary attitude coming from someone so important to this community. I am sure there are many developments out there relying on DTML and I am also sure that the developers are earning a living from those developments. Will employers be happy that the technology used for their sites is dead ? Will they continue to pay these developers? Can you give one reason why DTML is bad that is not based on personal preference, presentation tools or the cognitive ability of developers to understand where variables are coming from? Does it not work if used properly? If someone comes to Zope and prefers to use DTML then let him, don't criticise instead of help him. Zope is a fantastic piece of software, however it is used, and its use should be encouraged. I prefer DTML and always have done and always will, no matter what this list says and I am sure there are many more like me. DTML is available and is used, let's support it properly on this list. While I was learning Zope I had many questions, but I had to work most of them out myself, not wanting to get lambasted again on this list for using DTML. If help was more forthcoming I'm sure that I would have learned more quickly rather than in relative isolation. Is the ZMI going to be re-written using ZPT? Regards Garry ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1775 - Release Date: 8-11-2008 9:56 ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql
BTW, Andreas, It is probably extra work to maintain both ZPT and DTML in each Zope release. We want you to know that we appreciate the extra work and your skills. :) On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Allen Schmidt Sr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 We love zope on our site and continue to build new things almost daily and all with DTML and ZSQL. Not a single line of ZPT anywhere within our 7gb Data.fs that has been making us all money and employing many folks for almost 8 years now as a newspaper website. AND in the birthplace of Zope www.Fredericksburg.com/Virginia/ 8^) Cheers! -Allen Tim Nash wrote: +1 Well spoken. It is painful to see all the cheers for django templates when dtml has been around longer and is just as good, maybe better. ZPT may also be fantastic but I haven't needed them yet. They seem to be designed to solve web editing problems circa 2002. -Tim On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Kees de Brabander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 cb -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Garry Saddington Verzonden: zaterdag 8 november 2008 12:54 Aan: zope@zope.org Onderwerp: Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql On Saturday 08 November 2008 06:21, Andreas Jung wrote: Any particular reason for using DTML instead of ZPT? DTML is dead. Firstly let me say that I do not wish to relight the ZPT vs DTML argument, only to make a few points. I find this an extraordinary attitude coming from someone so important to this community. I am sure there are many developments out there relying on DTML and I am also sure that the developers are earning a living from those developments. Will employers be happy that the technology used for their sites is dead ? Will they continue to pay these developers? Can you give one reason why DTML is bad that is not based on personal preference, presentation tools or the cognitive ability of developers to understand where variables are coming from? Does it not work if used properly? If someone comes to Zope and prefers to use DTML then let him, don't criticise instead of help him. Zope is a fantastic piece of software, however it is used, and its use should be encouraged. I prefer DTML and always have done and always will, no matter what this list says and I am sure there are many more like me. DTML is available and is used, let's support it properly on this list. While I was learning Zope I had many questions, but I had to work most of them out myself, not wanting to get lambasted again on this list for using DTML. If help was more forthcoming I'm sure that I would have learned more quickly rather than in relative isolation. Is the ZMI going to be re-written using ZPT? Regards Garry ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1775 - Release Date: 8-11-2008 9:56 ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) -- ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED]://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql
+1 We love zope on our site and continue to build new things almost daily and all with DTML and ZSQL. Not a single line of ZPT anywhere within our 7gb Data.fs that has been making us all money and employing many folks for almost 8 years now as a newspaper website. AND in the birthplace of Zope www.Fredericksburg.com/Virginia/ 8^) Cheers! -Allen Tim Nash wrote: +1 Well spoken. It is painful to see all the cheers for django templates when dtml has been around longer and is just as good, maybe better. ZPT may also be fantastic but I haven't needed them yet. They seem to be designed to solve web editing problems circa 2002. -Tim On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Kees de Brabander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 cb -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Namens Garry Saddington Verzonden: zaterdag 8 november 2008 12:54 Aan: zope@zope.org Onderwerp: Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql On Saturday 08 November 2008 06:21, Andreas Jung wrote: Any particular reason for using DTML instead of ZPT? DTML is dead. Firstly let me say that I do not wish to relight the ZPT vs DTML argument, only to make a few points. I find this an extraordinary attitude coming from someone so important to this community. I am sure there are many developments out there relying on DTML and I am also sure that the developers are earning a living from those developments. Will employers be happy that the technology used for their sites is "dead" ? Will they continue to pay these developers? Can you give one reason why DTML is bad that is not based on personal preference, presentation tools or the cognitive ability of developers to understand where variables are coming from? Does it not work if used properly? If someone comes to Zope and prefers to use DTML then let him, don't criticise instead of help him. Zope is a fantastic piece of software, however it is used, and its use should be encouraged. I prefer DTML and always have done and always will, no matter what this list says and I am sure there are many more like me. DTML is available and is used, let's support it properly on this list. While I was learning Zope I had many questions, but I had to work most of them out myself, not wanting to get lambasted again on this list for using DTML. If help was more forthcoming I'm sure that I would have learned more quickly rather than in relative isolation. Is the ZMI going to be re-written using ZPT? Regards Garry ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1775 - Release Date: 8-11-2008 9:56 ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql
Of course!! That goes without saying, but I guess it does not get said often enough. Thanks to all you hard working contributors who keep DTML alive!!! -Allen Tim Nash wrote: BTW, Andreas, It is probably extra work to maintain both ZPT and DTML in each Zope release. We want you to know that we appreciate the extra work and your skills. :) On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Allen Schmidt Sr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 We love zope on our site and continue to build new things almost daily and all with DTML and ZSQL. Not a single line of ZPT anywhere within our 7gb Data.fs that has been making us all money and employing many folks for almost 8 years now as a newspaper website. AND in the birthplace of Zope www.Fredericksburg.com/Virginia/ 8^) Cheers! -Allen Tim Nash wrote: +1 Well spoken. It is painful to see all the cheers for django templates when dtml has been around longer and is just as good, maybe better. ZPT may also be fantastic but I haven't needed them yet. They seem to be designed to solve web editing problems circa 2002. -Tim On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Kees de Brabander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 cb -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Namens Garry Saddington Verzonden: zaterdag 8 november 2008 12:54 Aan: zope@zope.org Onderwerp: Re: [Zope] Was Problem using nested dtml-in with zsql On Saturday 08 November 2008 06:21, Andreas Jung wrote: Any particular reason for using DTML instead of ZPT? DTML is dead. Firstly let me say that I do not wish to relight the ZPT vs DTML argument, only to make a few points. I find this an extraordinary attitude coming from someone so important to this community. I am sure there are many developments out there relying on DTML and I am also sure that the developers are earning a living from those developments. Will employers be happy that the technology used for their sites is "dead" ? Will they continue to pay these developers? Can you give one reason why DTML is bad that is not based on personal preference, presentation tools or the cognitive ability of developers to understand where variables are coming from? Does it not work if used properly? If someone comes to Zope and prefers to use DTML then let him, don't criticise instead of help him. Zope is a fantastic piece of software, however it is used, and its use should be encouraged. I prefer DTML and always have done and always will, no matter what this list says and I am sure there are many more like me. DTML is available and is used, let's support it properly on this list. While I was learning Zope I had many questions, but I had to work most of them out myself, not wanting to get lambasted again on this list for using DTML. If help was more forthcoming I'm sure that I would have learned more quickly rather than in relative isolation. Is the ZMI going to be re-written using ZPT? Regards Garry ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1775 - Release Date: 8-11-2008 9:56 ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )