Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-22 Thread Mark Barratt
Andreas Jung wrote: --On 21. Juni 2005 23:04:12 +0100 Mark Barratt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: or there's PHP, where the communities are probably more newbie-friendly and there are loads of tutorials. Don't compare PHP with Zope. PHP is a tiny language compared to the fat Zope frameworks.

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-22 Thread Chris McDonough
The Zope Book says this in its preface FWIW: To make effective use of the book, you should know how to use a web browser and you should have a basic understanding of HTML (Hyper Text Markup Language) and URLs (Uniform Resource Locators). You don't need to be a highly-skilled programmer in order

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-22 Thread Peter Bengtsson
I think we (the Zope community) should try to be clearer in telling newcomers what the 'entry requirements' are. My preference is to lie about the complexity. Newcomers are welcoming it much more then. Because if you say it is easy people will blame themselfs if they get stuck and to avoid

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-22 Thread John Poltorak
On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 11:04:12PM +0100, Mark Barratt wrote: John Poltorak wrote: I was on a course over the weekend where ordinary people in their 70's with no technical ability were knocking together websites in just a few hours with no prior training and no understanding of the

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-22 Thread Andrew Milton
+---[ John Poltorak ]-- | On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 11:04:12PM +0100, Mark Barratt wrote: | [Snip] | Most (not all) of the people who hang out here have all three of these | skill sets, and like many skilled people, they find it hard to | understand that the skills

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-22 Thread Bakhtiar A Hamid
I'm sufficiently aware of Zope to know it provides a far more comprehensive build environment than PHP ever will and I would like to adopt it as my platform of choice, but it would be nice if the ZOPE support community was as newbie-friendly as the PHP crowd. Loads of tutorials and worked

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-21 Thread John Poltorak
On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 01:24:18AM +0200, Andreas Pakulat wrote: On 20.Jun 2005 - 23:45:34, John Poltorak wrote: Does a ZPT tutorial exist anywhere? How about the 2 chapters in the Zope book? I just don't find this book very helpful at all. It's written as a manual rather than tutorial

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-21 Thread David H
John Poltorak wrote: On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 01:24:18AM +0200, Andreas Pakulat wrote: On 20.Jun 2005 - 23:45:34, John Poltorak wrote: Does a ZPT tutorial exist anywhere? How about the 2 chapters in the Zope book? I just don't find this

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-21 Thread J Cameron Cooper
John Poltorak wrote: Does a ZPT tutorial exist anywhere? How about: http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Articles Specifically: http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Articles/ZPT1 http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Articles/ZPT2 There's something odd about the rendering of the second one, but

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-21 Thread Peter Bengtsson
How about the 2 chapters in the Zope book? I just don't find this book very helpful at all. It's written as a manual rather than tutorial and reminds me of a book which explains how to chop down a tree if you are interested in putting up some bookshelves. What I did find useful, though,

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-21 Thread John Poltorak
On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 07:04:48PM +0100, Peter Bengtsson wrote: How about the 2 chapters in the Zope book? I just don't find this book very helpful at all. It's written as a manual rather than tutorial and reminds me of a book which explains how to chop down a tree if you are

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-21 Thread J Cameron Cooper
John Poltorak wrote: On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 07:04:48PM +0100, Peter Bengtsson wrote: How about the 2 chapters in the Zope book? I just don't find this book very helpful at all. It's written as a manual rather than tutorial and reminds me of a book which explains how to chop down a

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-21 Thread Paul Winkler
On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 07:29:20PM +0100, John Poltorak wrote: re. zopelabs.com: It probably is very useful, but I know I'd get hopelessly lost because there is just so much stuff on it. So you prefer to ignore it? Granted, zopelabs.com has flaws. It's harder to find stuff than it should be.

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-21 Thread John Poltorak
On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 03:15:33PM -0400, Paul Winkler wrote: On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 07:29:20PM +0100, John Poltorak wrote: re. zopelabs.com: It probably is very useful, but I know I'd get hopelessly lost because there is just so much stuff on it. So you prefer to ignore it? Just how

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-21 Thread David H
John, If you spent more time just *learning* Zope and HTML, etc and less time rationalizing your lack of progress everyone would be happy. David John Poltorak wrote: On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 03:15:33PM -0400, Paul Winkler wrote: On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 07:29:20PM +0100, John

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-21 Thread Mark Barratt
John Poltorak wrote: If I spend a couple of days on something and make no progress, I'd say it's 'too much work'. Wouldn't you. Yes I was on a course over the weekend where ordinary people in their 70's with no technical ability were knocking together websites in just a few hours with

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-21 Thread Tamas Hegedus
Hi, In addition, Zope is heading fast into even less friendly territory. DTML, which is technically 'mucky' but reasonably easy to grasp for non-programmers, is increasingly deprecated. I just started to learn Zope recently. I choose dtml over page templates to learn as it = seemed to me

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-21 Thread Paul Winkler
On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 10:10:06PM +0100, John Poltorak wrote: On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 03:15:33PM -0400, Paul Winkler wrote: On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 07:29:20PM +0100, John Poltorak wrote: re. zopelabs.com: It probably is very useful, but I know I'd get hopelessly lost because there

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-21 Thread Jens Vagelpohl
On 21 Jun 2005, at 23:23, Tamas Hegedus wrote: Hi, In addition, Zope is heading fast into even less friendly territory. DTML, which is technically 'mucky' but reasonably easy to grasp for non-programmers, is increasingly deprecated. I just started to learn Zope recently. I choose

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-21 Thread Andreas Jung
--On 21. Juni 2005 23:04:12 +0100 Mark Barratt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: or there's PHP, where the communities are probably more newbie-friendly and there are loads of tutorials. Don't compare PHP with Zope. PHP is a tiny language compared to the fat Zope frameworks. Working with Zope on the

[Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-20 Thread John Poltorak
Does a ZPT tutorial exist anywhere? -- John ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-20 Thread Peter Bengtsson
Don't know of a good tutorial but I know there are many. I'm sure that plone.org has some good ones. In case you already know your DTML, this little howto has helped people a lot. http://www.zope.org/Members/peterbe/DTML2ZPT On 6/20/05, John Poltorak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does a ZPT

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-20 Thread Andreas Jung
--On 20. Juni 2005 23:45:34 +0100 John Poltorak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does a ZPT tutorial exist anywhere? Aren't the *three* ZPT chapters in the Zope Book good enough? -aj pgpRrnfGY61Jv.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Zope maillist -

Re: [Zope] ZPT tutorial

2005-06-20 Thread David H
Everyone, I think the ZPT tutorials are excellent. Both "Using Page Templates" and "Advanced Page Templates" are worth reading more than once. David Andreas Jung wrote: --On 20. Juni 2005 23:45:34 +0100 John Poltorak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does a ZPT tutorial exist