Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-11-06 Thread Robin Becker

In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Michel Pelletier
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Robin Becker wrote:
 
...
I belive all reference to xslt methods has been removed.  Python methods
will be part of the 2.3 release, and Perl methods are mentioned in the
book as being a component add on that must be installed.


well I think I read about them in the recently released beta, not how
they work, but I didn't pluck the name out of thin air.

 So is there an alpha of this future zope that we could
 use to check the book?

Check out Zope and Python Methods from CVS.  Perl Methods can be
downloaded from the Perl wiki on (I believe) dev.zope.org.

-Michel


I'm using the CVS checkout of Zope2, where are python methods in the CVS
tree?
-- 
Robin Becker

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-11-06 Thread Michel Pelletier

Robin Becker wrote:
 
 In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Michel Pelletier
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
 Robin Becker wrote:
 
 ...
 I belive all reference to xslt methods has been removed.  Python methods
 will be part of the 2.3 release, and Perl methods are mentioned in the
 book as being a component add on that must be installed.
 
 
 well I think I read about them in the recently released beta, not how
 they work, but I didn't pluck the name out of thin air.

Ah you are correct, I just removed the references to them.  I thought
they were purged when we removed the xml chapter.
 
  So is there an alpha of this future zope that we could
  use to check the book?
 
 Check out Zope and Python Methods from CVS.  Perl Methods can be
 downloaded from the Perl wiki on (I believe) dev.zope.org.
 
 -Michel
 
 
 I'm using the CVS checkout of Zope2, where are python methods in the CVS
 tree?

I'm not sure, I suspect you would ahve to check them out of a branch,
and I don't know how to do that from the public CVS.  I'll make some
inquiries.

-Michel

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-11-05 Thread Jan H. Haul

Fred Yankowski wrote:
 
 I agree completely that the Zope Book beta will get more reviewers,
 and better feedback to the authors, if it is available as PDF.  

A valid point.
I do not care about the format that much. But what I care about
is a clear method of referencing the text, to the line or
paragraph level, so that we can get comments and corrections to
the authors/copyeditors efficiently.

A PDF *with page and line numbers* would fit the bill nicely. As
would a HTML file with paragraph numbers (as HTML comments,
maybe?).

The point is that we should be able to give meaningful feedback,
like "page 147, line 15: there should be their" (a totally
made-up example, do not go hunting for that one).
It just does not do to quote full sentences and have the
copyeditor search for all that stuff. Too much wasted time on
both ends.

Cheers,
Jan

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta / inserting anchors into the official HTML?

2000-11-05 Thread Jan H. Haul

Simon Coles wrote:
 
 I wholeheartedly agree with Jason and Chris. I would very much appreciate a
 PDF version that could be easily printed, or read with Adobe's Reader.
 
 If you have the full version of Adobe Acrobat (you have to pay for
 it, as opposed to the free Reader) you can "Capture" web pages into a
 PDF. I created a PDF of the Zope Book beta to read on the train
 today. PDFs created in this way are full text searchable :-)

Well, that is not exactly the point - anybody can use, e.g.,
htmldoc (a very fine tool from www.easysw.com, which is not a big
moneydrain as Adobe distiller is).
The point in favor of a semi-official draft copy PDF is that it
gives us a common reference frame for reviews and feedback. The
PDF would mean everybody has the same page and line numbers,
while HTML has no such concept.

Hmmm. It would be pretty easy to cook up a script to number all
the P tags and include that number in the HTML as comments or,
even better, anchors so you can directly link to a paragraph). Of
course this makes sense only if it is done consistently, i.e., at
the source. That would certainly be fine with O'Reilly.

Cheers,
Jan

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-11-05 Thread Robin Becker

In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jan H. Haul [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Fred Yankowski wrote:
 
 I agree completely that the Zope Book beta will get more reviewers,
 and better feedback to the authors, if it is available as PDF.  

A valid point.
I do not care about the format that much. But what I care about
is a clear method of referencing the text, to the line or
paragraph level, so that we can get comments and corrections to
the authors/copyeditors efficiently.

A PDF *with page and line numbers* would fit the bill nicely. As
would a HTML file with paragraph numbers (as HTML comments,
maybe?).

The point is that we should be able to give meaningful feedback,
like "page 147, line 15: there should be their" (a totally
made-up example, do not go hunting for that one).
It just does not do to quote full sentences and have the
copyeditor search for all that stuff. Too much wasted time on
both ends.

Cheers,
Jan


I agree about the numbering, but even more I would like to know which
version of Zope the book is supposed to be about. It mentions stuff such
as XSLT methods, perl methods and python methods none of which are in an
official zope. So is there an alpha of this future zope that we could
use to check the book?
-- 
Robin Becker

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-11-05 Thread Michel Pelletier

"Jan H. Haul" wrote:
 
 The point is that we should be able to give meaningful feedback,
 like "page 147, line 15: there should be their" (a totally
 made-up example, do not go hunting for that one).
 It just does not do to quote full sentences and have the
 copyeditor search for all that stuff. Too much wasted time on
 both ends.

Jan,

We have very little experience in documentation delivery and
maintenance.  It's sad but true.  We are however working to resolve the
problem.  Please take a look at the documentation process wiki, where we
have a section for discussing delivery issues:

http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/DocumentationProcess/FrontPage

Look under 'CurrentIssues'.  Please place any suggestions or ideas you
have there.

-Michel

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-11-05 Thread Michel Pelletier

Robin Becker wrote:
 

 I agree about the numbering, but even more I would like to know which
 version of Zope the book is supposed to be about. 

When it hits the shelves, it will be about 2.3.  After that, we will
maintain the book to be in sync with the current release according to
the as-yet-unofficial documentation development process:

http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/DocumentationProcess/FrontPage

 It mentions stuff such
 as XSLT methods, perl methods and python methods none of which are in an
 official zope. 

I belive all reference to xslt methods has been removed.  Python methods
will be part of the 2.3 release, and Perl methods are mentioned in the
book as being a component add on that must be installed.

 So is there an alpha of this future zope that we could
 use to check the book?

Check out Zope and Python Methods from CVS.  Perl Methods can be
downloaded from the Perl wiki on (I believe) dev.zope.org.

-Michel

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-11-01 Thread Chris Withers

Amos Latteier wrote:
 
 Chris Withers wrote:
 
  There a PDF of it anywhere?
 
 Not yet. I think that O'Reilly doesn't want us to produce any more
 public versions of the book until it is published. I'm double checking
 with them right now. Take a look at the copyright verbage on each book
 page to see what I'm talking about.

Kinda tough to check out/read/find mistakes in a book that's only
available as a set of html pages that aren't full text searchable

*grumble*

Chris

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-11-01 Thread Jason Cunliffe

- Original Message -
From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  Not yet. I think that O'Reilly doesn't want us to produce any more
  public versions of the book until it is published. I'm double checking
  with them right now. Take a look at the copyright verbage on each book
  page to see what I'm talking about.

 Kinda tough to check out/read/find mistakes in a book that's only
 available as a set of html pages that aren't full text searchable

This is a really good point.

Just as open source benefits from real-time peer review, so do manuscripts
get better when fresh eyes and minds and go over them.

How about 'releasing' a PDF / HTML Doc with header/footers clearly marked:
'Preview Review copy for Copy-Editing use only. Not for general public or
commercial distribution'

The number of people who are likely to 'bootleg' the Zope book must be tiny.
Most will want to see the book sales thrive, so that Zope grows and gets the
wider recognition it deserves.And to save time and money when developing
Zope projects.
For such sophisticated 'free' software, a well written, well edited book is
a trivial price to pay.

The issue is how to get the best final copy to the printer in timely manner.
Peer review now by skilled expert readers is huge advantage to be tapped. No
matter how good OReilly are as publishers, I doubt they have many Zope
experts in-house at ORA... Because there are not yet that many in the world!

Most people are too busy anyway to be of much help. Anyone who wants to help
adn has the ability to do so should be engaged now not deterred. Everyone
will benefit if you act quickly now. Final stages of proofreading and
tweaking are time consuming adn take many hands and many heads to get right.
When done thoroughly this is the difference which makes a difference,
especially for technical books. Look at how much hideous fast junk is out
there in bookstores now. Look at how many books are a waste of paper and
time and money, simply because they were not properly checked and tuned.

good luck and best wishes
- Jason



___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-11-01 Thread Dan L. Pierson

"Jason Cunliffe" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 - Original Message -
 From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  Kinda tough to check out/read/find mistakes in a book that's only
  available as a set of html pages that aren't full text searchable
 
 This is a really good point.
 
 Just as open source benefits from real-time peer review, so do manuscripts
 get better when fresh eyes and minds and go over them.
 
 How about 'releasing' a PDF / HTML Doc with header/footers clearly marked:
 'Preview Review copy for Copy-Editing use only. Not for general public or
 commercial distribution'

I like this suggestion.  There are three of us (ranging from novice to
pretty experienced) here that were planning to print out copies of PDF
and go over them at home, none of us has the time to sit at work and
read/review the whole thing on a web browser.



___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-11-01 Thread Tim Lynch


I wholeheartedly agree with Jason and Chris. I would very much appreciate a 
PDF version that could be easily printed, or read with Adobe's Reader. I hope
there is no hesitation over making a PDF version available because of fear it
will cut into sales of the bound volume. I think it would be just the opposite. 
I can easily think of examples (the original Tcl/Tk book comes first to mind)
where the printed copy closed the sale of the bound volume for me. 

I'll be purchasing multiple copies of the Zope book for my shop regardless.
(I tried to no avail to do a pre-order from OReilly's set yesterday :) Getting
a chance to proof an early version and perhaps contribute to making it better 
only increases my desire to purchase the eventual publication.

--
Tim Lynch
Information Technology Section
A. R. Mann Library
Cornell University
Ithaca, New York 14853
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
607.255.9570

 
 "Jason Cunliffe" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
   Kinda tough to check out/read/find mistakes in a book that's only
   available as a set of html pages that aren't full text searchable
This is a really good point.
  
  Just as open source benefits from real-time peer review, so do manuscripts
  get better when fresh eyes and minds and go over them.
  
  How about 'releasing' a PDF / HTML Doc with header/footers clearly marked:
  'Preview Review copy for Copy-Editing use only. Not for general public or
  commercial distribution'
 
 I like this suggestion.  There are three of us (ranging from novice to
 pretty experienced) here that were planning to print out copies of PDF
 and go over them at home, none of us has the time to sit at work and
 read/review the whole thing on a web browser.
 
 
 
 ___
 Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
 **   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
 (Related lists - 
  http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
  http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
 
 


___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-11-01 Thread Simon Coles

I wholeheartedly agree with Jason and Chris. I would very much appreciate a
PDF version that could be easily printed, or read with Adobe's Reader.

If you have the full version of Adobe Acrobat (you have to pay for 
it, as opposed to the free Reader) you can "Capture" web pages into a 
PDF. I created a PDF of the Zope Book beta to read on the train 
today. PDFs created in this way are full text searchable :-)

 From what people are saying I don't think I can redistribute the PDF 
I have created :-( However, if you have Acrobat, you can make one 
yourself :-)

BTW the book was very useful, I'll be recommending it when it comes out


Simon
-- 
- My opinions are my own, NIP's opinions are theirs --
Simon J. Coles Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
New Information Paradigms  Work Phone: +44 1344 753703
http://www.nipltd.com/ Work Fax:   +44 1344 753742
=== Life is too precious to take seriously ===

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-11-01 Thread Michel Pelletier

Fred Yankowski wrote:
 
 I agree completely that the Zope Book beta will get more reviewers,
 and better feedback to the authors, if it is available as PDF.

I agree, but this is completely out of our hands and we must focus more
on content issues at this point then distribution issues.  All of these
problems will get solved in the comming months, they just won't get
solved today.

-Michel

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-11-01 Thread Michel Pelletier

Tim Lynch wrote:
 
 I wholeheartedly agree with Jason and Chris. I would very much appreciate a
 PDF version that could be easily printed, or read with Adobe's Reader. I hope
 there is no hesitation over making a PDF version available because of fear it
 will cut into sales of the bound volume. I think it would be just the opposite.
 I can easily think of examples (the original Tcl/Tk book comes first to mind)
 where the printed copy closed the sale of the bound volume for me.

I do not know what the reasons is.  I do know that when the book hits
the shelf, it will go under an open content license and we will be free
to distribute it in a myriad of flavors and you will have the freedom to
do with it what you please (according to the license).

 I'll be purchasing multiple copies of the Zope book for my shop regardless.

Thanks. ;)

-Michel

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-11-01 Thread Michel Pelletier

Jason Cunliffe wrote:
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
   Not yet. I think that O'Reilly doesn't want us to produce any more
   public versions of the book until it is published. I'm double checking
   with them right now. Take a look at the copyright verbage on each book
   page to see what I'm talking about.
 
  Kinda tough to check out/read/find mistakes in a book that's only
  available as a set of html pages that aren't full text searchable
 
 This is a really good point.
 
 Just as open source benefits from real-time peer review, so do manuscripts
 get better when fresh eyes and minds and go over them.
 
 How about 'releasing' a PDF / HTML Doc with header/footers clearly marked:
 'Preview Review copy for Copy-Editing use only. Not for general public or
 commercial distribution'

This is a good idea and probably a good compromise, but this would
require us taking the time to negotiate it with O'Reilly and engineer a
stx-pdf converter and pre-empt alot of work we have lined up for the
book and other documentation efforts.  With the existing setup, we don't
have to worry about this for a couple months and we don't have to stir
the shit with O'Reilly.

 The number of people who are likely to 'bootleg' the Zope book must be tiny.

I agree, and honestly, Amos and I don't care about the bootlegging or
book sales revenue.  It is also not our job to enforce the rules; I
would chuckle to hear about people 'bootlegging' ilicit PDF copies of
the book.

 Most will want to see the book sales thrive,

Yeah, NY Times bestseller list!!!

 so that Zope grows and gets the
 wider recognition it deserves.And to save time and money when developing
 Zope projects.
 For such sophisticated 'free' software, a well written, well edited book is
 a trivial price to pay.
 
 The issue is how to get the best final copy to the printer in timely manner.

Well... from your perspective (and ours) but from O'Reilly's I think
they're woried about *who* the first person to print that best final
copy is.  Those are the people they are worried about bootlegging the
book, not you, they _know_ you'll buy a copy.  ;) If we open content it
now, someone could beat ORA to the shelves by a week and undercut a
sizable percentage of sales and all they would ahve to do is put ORAs
name on the cover, but they don't get any money.

I feel your pain on all issues.  A couple more months and this will all
go away.

-Michel

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-11-01 Thread Jason Cunliffe

- Original Message -
From: Michel Pelletier [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  Just as open source benefits from real-time peer review, so do
manuscripts
  get better when fresh eyes and minds and go over them.
 
  How about 'releasing' a PDF / HTML Doc with header/footers clearly
marked:
  'Preview Review copy for Copy-Editing use only. Not for general public
or
  commercial distribution'

 This is a good idea and probably a good compromise, but this would
 require us taking the time to negotiate it with O'Reilly and engineer a
 stx-pdf converter and pre-empt alot of work we have lined up for the
 book and other documentation efforts.  With the existing setup, we don't
 have to worry about this for a couple months and we don't have to stir
 the shit with O'Reilly.

This is truly nuts...
Sounds a like you guys are tired and just want it done and printed now.

So please just let us know whom we should contact directly at OReilly.

This really is not 'stiring the shit'.
Publishing staff are always over worked especially copy-editors. They will
appreciate some timely comments, from some [free] Zope experts to help them
get their work done quicker and better.

Hell, they can even use it on the blurb to help sell the book and get some
nice 'OpenSource reaches the Book Publishing World'-type reviews !!

I find it hard to believe given the significant role OReilly have in
openSource, Python etc that they would not be happy to embrace a __tiny__
experiment in this direction.


  The issue is how to get the best final copy to the printer in timely
manner.

 Well... from your perspective (and ours) but from O'Reilly's I think
 they're woried about *who* the first person to print that best final
 copy is.  Those are the people they are worried about bootlegging the
 book, not you, they _know_ you'll buy a copy.  ;) If we open content it
 now, someone could beat ORA to the shelves by a week and undercut a
 sizable percentage of sales and all they would ahve to do is put ORAs
 name on the cover, but they don't get any money.

 I feel your pain on all issues.  A couple more months and this will all
 go away.

A couple of months from now is exactly when the pain will be felt!
You open the book and go ooops! damn how'd we miss that one..?

Then the reviews come and say "Been really looking forwards to this
milestone book for a long time. It is well written by two members of the
core Zope team but unfortunately"

Please don't confuse controlled easy accesss for willing proofreaders, with
public licensing and e-distribution models. Those CAN be sorted out later.

Just as employees and freelancers working for Publishers have access to
manuscripts, so should and can designated members of the Zope community.
These are not annonymous strangers.

I have been reading and printing out various chapters of the book from
http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/ over the past month. Then saved out a
bunch of the HTML files and printed to PDF. Took 'em round the corner for
cheap fast b+ printout and had comb binding put on then. It was worth the
$15 for print+binding just to be able to scan on planes and while I was
travelling.  It already gave me a much better feeling and understnding of
Zope :-)

- Jason
___
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']


___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-10-31 Thread Wolfgang Strobl

On 30 Oct 2000, 17:32  Michel Pelletier wrote:

 
 Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the
 Zope Book Beta.  [...]

Great!

For my own use, I'Ve just created a fully indexed  MS-Windows 
HTMHelp-Version, see http://www.zope.org/Members/strobl, that I 
want to share with others doing Zope work on that platform.



--
  o  ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] (+49 2241) 14-2394
 /\*   GMD mbH   #include 
   _`\ `_===  Schloss Birlinghoven, std.disclaimer
__(_)/_(_)___.-._  53754 Sankt Augustin, Germany 

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




[Zope] AW: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-10-31 Thread Patrick Koetter

Thanks!
Pretty neat thing :-)

I like the ducks: a-hi-ru.
"Kore wa desu? Ahiru desu." It must have been something like that...

p@

 -Urspr√ľngliche Nachricht-
 Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Im Auftrag von
 Wolfgang Strobl
 Gesendet: Dienstag, 31. Oktober 2000 10:58
 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Betreff: Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta


 On 30 Oct 2000, 17:32  Michel Pelletier wrote:

 
  Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the
  Zope Book Beta.  [...]

 Great!

 For my own use, I'Ve just created a fully indexed  MS-Windows
 HTMHelp-Version, see http://www.zope.org/Members/strobl, that I
 want to share with others doing Zope work on that platform.



 --
   o  ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] (+49 2241) 14-2394
  /\*   GMD mbH   #include
_`\ `_===  Schloss Birlinghoven, std.disclaimer
 __(_)/_(_)___.-._  53754 Sankt Augustin, Germany 

 ___
 Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
 **   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
 (Related lists -
  http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
  http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )



___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-10-31 Thread Chris Withers

There a PDF of it anywhere?

cheers,

Chris

Michel Pelletier wrote:
 
 Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the
 Zope Book Beta.  This is the complete, technical draft of the book with
 all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!).
 Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors is
 missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API reference,
 and the DTML reference.  We've received over a hundred comments,
 corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much
 better book.  This is the one to print out and give to your friends as
 christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at
 http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/.
 
 Enjoy,
 
 -Michel
 
 ___
 Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
 **   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
 (Related lists -
  http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
  http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-10-31 Thread Phil Harris

Give me a few hours and I'll be knocking out the eBook and PDF versions.

By the end of the day.

Phil

- Original Message - 
From: "Chris Withers" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta


 There a PDF of it anywhere?
 
 cheers,
 
 Chris
 
 Michel Pelletier wrote:
  
  Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the
  Zope Book Beta.  This is the complete, technical draft of the book with
  all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!).
  Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors is
  missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API reference,
  and the DTML reference.  We've received over a hundred comments,
  corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much
  better book.  This is the one to print out and give to your friends as
  christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at
  http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/.
  
  Enjoy,
  
  -Michel
  
  ___
  Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
  **   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
  (Related lists -
   http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
   http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
 
 ___
 Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
 **   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
 (Related lists - 
  http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
  http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )


___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-10-31 Thread Ender

Phil Harris wrote:
 
 Give me a few hours and I'll be knocking out the eBook and PDF versions.
 
 By the end of the day.
 
 Phil

Hi Phil,

how do you do that? for the pdf are you dumping stuff into reportlab?

Kapil


 - Original Message -
 From: "Chris Withers" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 11:49 AM
 Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
 
  There a PDF of it anywhere?
 
  cheers,
 
  Chris
 
  Michel Pelletier wrote:
  
   Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the
   Zope Book Beta.  This is the complete, technical draft of the book with
   all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!).
   Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors is
   missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API reference,
   and the DTML reference.  We've received over a hundred comments,
   corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much
   better book.  This is the one to print out and give to your friends as
   christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at
   http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/.
  
   Enjoy,
  
   -Michel
  
   ___
   Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
   **   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
   (Related lists -
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
 
  ___
  Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
  **   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
  (Related lists -
   http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
   http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
 
 ___
 Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
 **   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
 (Related lists -
  http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
  http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-10-31 Thread Phil Harris

Nah, I use the offical stuff , Adobe Distiller.

For the eBook stuff I use a Microsoft Word Add-in, available from
www.pocketpc.com (really microsoft under a pseudonym)

hth

Phil



- Original Message -
From: "Ender" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "Phil Harris" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta


| Phil Harris wrote:
| 
|  Give me a few hours and I'll be knocking out the eBook and PDF versions.
| 
|  By the end of the day.
| 
|  Phil
|
| Hi Phil,
|
| how do you do that? for the pdf are you dumping stuff into reportlab?
|
| Kapil
|
|
|  - Original Message -
|  From: "Chris Withers" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|  Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 11:49 AM
|  Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
| 
|   There a PDF of it anywhere?
|  
|   cheers,
|  
|   Chris
|  
|   Michel Pelletier wrote:
|   
|Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the
|Zope Book Beta.  This is the complete, technical draft of the book
with
|all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!).
|Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors
is
|missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API
reference,
|and the DTML reference.  We've received over a hundred comments,
|corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much
|better book.  This is the one to print out and give to your friends
as
|christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at
|http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/.
|   
|Enjoy,
|   
|-Michel
|   
|___
|Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
|**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
|(Related lists -
| http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
| http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
|  
|   ___
|   Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|   http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
|   **   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
|   (Related lists -
|http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
|http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
| 
|  ___
|  Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|  http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
|  **   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
|  (Related lists -
|   http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
|   http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )


___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




[Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-10-31 Thread Amos Latteier

Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
 
 On 30 Oct 2000, 17:32  Michel Pelletier wrote:
 
 
  Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the
  Zope Book Beta.  [...]
 
 Great!
 
 For my own use, I'Ve just created a fully indexed  MS-Windows
 HTMHelp-Version, see http://www.zope.org/Members/strobl, that I
 want to share with others doing Zope work on that platform.

I believe that O'Reilly doesn't want the book redistributed before it is
printed. I'll recheck with them. Take a look at the copyright stuff info
on each page. 

Luckily the book will soon be under an open content license, and then
you'll be free to do what ever you wish.

Thanks for taking a look at the book!

-Amos

--
Amos Latteier mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-10-31 Thread Wolfgang Strobl

On 31 Oct 2000, at 10:39, Amos Latteier wrote:

 I believe that O'Reilly doesn't want the book redistributed before it is
 printed. 

It's gone.

 I'll recheck with them. 

No need to.

But what is the meaning of This is the one to print out and give to 
your friends as christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start 
reading at." in the announcement?


Take a look at the copyright stuff info
 on each page. 

 didn't restribute it, I uploaded the same content in a different 
format to the very same site I got it from: www.zope.org.


-- 
Wolfgang Strobl

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-10-31 Thread Amos Latteier

Chris Withers wrote:
 
 There a PDF of it anywhere?

Not yet. I think that O'Reilly doesn't want us to produce any more
public versions of the book until it is published. I'm double checking
with them right now. Take a look at the copyright verbage on each book
page to see what I'm talking about.

As soon as the book is published it will go under an open content
license and we'll make PDF, and probably other formats available. At
that time you'll also be able to convert the book to whatever formats
you want and redistribute it as you wish.

Thanks for your patience.

-Amos

--
Amos Latteier mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-10-31 Thread Robin Becker

In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Michel Pelletier
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes

Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the
Zope Book Beta.  This is the complete, technical draft of the book with
all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!). 
Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors is
missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API reference,
and the DTML reference.  We've received over a hundred comments,
corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much
better book.  This is the one to print out and give to your friends as
christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at
http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/.

Enjoy,

-Michel

...
wonderful, but the stuff on Python methods seems to refer to features
which are certainly not in 2.2.2 and apparently not in CVS. Indeed CVS
Zope2 doesn't seem to contain any Python method product! Indeed we will
apparently soon be able to create XSLT methods!

Which potential Zope does the book address? 
-- 
Robin Becker

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-10-31 Thread Michel Pelletier

Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
 
 On 31 Oct 2000, at 10:39, Amos Latteier wrote:
 
  I believe that O'Reilly doesn't want the book redistributed before it is
  printed.
 
 It's gone.
 
  I'll recheck with them.
 
 No need to.
 
 But what is the meaning of This is the one to print out and give to
 your friends as christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start
 reading at." in the announcement?

That was a joke.  Sorry.

-Michel

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-10-31 Thread Michel Pelletier

Chris Withers wrote:
 
 There a PDF of it anywhere?

No, we won't produce one until the book goes to an open content license
when it hits the shelf.

-Michel

 
 cheers,
 
 Chris
 
 Michel Pelletier wrote:
 
  Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the
  Zope Book Beta.  This is the complete, technical draft of the book with
  all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!).
  Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors is
  missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API reference,
  and the DTML reference.  We've received over a hundred comments,
  corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much
  better book.  This is the one to print out and give to your friends as
  christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at
  http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/.
 
  Enjoy,
 
  -Michel
 
  ___
  Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
  **   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
  (Related lists -
   http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
   http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-10-31 Thread Jason Cunliffe

Hello

Congratulations on getting the book to this stage!!

It is very readable and I hope it is well promoted, and well received.

One obvious presentation improvement I suggest is that you make ALL zope
code references in the same typographic style.

For example throughout most of the text you sensibly have DTML and Python
examples in courier or equivalent.

But in the Appendices, for example
http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/AppendixA.html under sections marked
'Attributes', there is not a clear consistent distinction:

encode=string
MIME Content-Transfer-Encoding header, defaults to base64. Valid encoding
options include base64, quoted-printable, uuencode, x-uuencode, uue, x-uue,
and 7bit. If the encode attribute is set to 7bit no encoding is done on the
block and the data is assumed to be in a valid MIME format.

"encode=string" should display in courier also like all examples.
And if possible put one extra line space after each Attribute description
before the next entry. Thought this takes up a little more space, it is
white space well used adn really helps one to find and absorb this crucial
content better.

An editorial suggestion I would make is that in the Appendices, MORE
examples would be BETTER and clearer definitions and examples of the
attributes arguments would really help too. Even a single one or two-line
example after each 'Attributes section would be a godsend. I imagine there
are lots of juicy examples in the archives.

For example check sendmail,
mailhost ="mailhostnamegoeshere"

Also there is no mention about the sendmail quirkiness of formatting,
needing space after the subject: line

This is a FAQ and surely belongs in the appendix of the only Zope book.
Are there others?

In general for the Appendices, please check that explicitly it is clear and
consistent when and if anything is returned,  and when and how arguments are
needed.
You all know, and take all this for granted no doubt, but others truly
don't.
The API aspect is one that holds so many people back and so many questions
about real-world use. Copious well placed examples go a long way.

I know how hard it is use to make a book and how many endless fiddly
time-consuming tasks there are. But it really is worth getting this right. I
work for 10 years in the design and production side of book publishing.

Ditto the index.
I hope you push to make sure your editorial team at OReilly are really
behind you on helping to produce a great index and will sweat all the
details and typographic minutiae which do matter so much when you hold the
final result.

A classic example is 'Lingo in a Nutshell' [ORA] which has very detailed
examples and excellent tables and appendices, but was marred by a cheap fast
shallow index. It was author Bruce Epstein's painful learning curve. It is
still the definitive LINGO book, but widely criticized for lack of serious
index. Bruce later added stuff online and vowed to fix it in the next
edition. As I recall from his post to the Direct-L mailing list, he said
that he had not been personally very involved in the index, and as an
exhausted and tired new author, he had not reckoned on what could go wrong,
nor how important the index is to a static printed paper book. Very
different from the dynamic online world where a few searches on google or
wherever will get a handy reference, backed up by a  post to
xyz-mailinglist.

Best wishes

- Jason


Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'].DesignDirector


___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-10-31 Thread Wolfgang Strobl

On 31 Oct 2000, at 12:54, Michel Pelletier wrote:

 That was a joke.  Sorry.

Uh, oh.  Well, my thought was as follows: people are already 
annoucing making PDF versions, which are a much greater 
potential harm to to the number of sales of a printed book.With a 
good pdf file, I can get to my local prinshop and get a perfect 
bounded book back within half an hour.

On the other hand, a MS HTML help file is of little use other than 
having a compact, searchable file which fits well into a 
development environment on Windows. Frankly, I can't see how 
these could do any harm to selling your book. To the contrary; I 
tend to beleive that having a properly indexed and tightly 
integrated online format might even might help selling the book. 

For example; I have HTML help versions _and_ printed copies of 
the - outdated - Zope docs, and one of each from the actual 
howto-collection, and I'm using them both. 

-- 
Wolfgang Strobl

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-10-31 Thread Phil Harris

Hi all,

If your talking about me with the PDF and eBook, then if it's a problem I
won't redistribute it.

It's actually sitting on my machine waiting to go, but I'll hold if need be.

Let me know either way.

hth

Phil


- Original Message -
From: "Wolfgang Strobl" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; "Amos Latteier" [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta


| On 31 Oct 2000, at 12:54, Michel Pelletier wrote:
|
|  That was a joke.  Sorry.
|
| Uh, oh.  Well, my thought was as follows: people are already
| annoucing making PDF versions, which are a much greater
| potential harm to to the number of sales of a printed book.With a
| good pdf file, I can get to my local prinshop and get a perfect
| bounded book back within half an hour.
|
| On the other hand, a MS HTML help file is of little use other than
| having a compact, searchable file which fits well into a
| development environment on Windows. Frankly, I can't see how
| these could do any harm to selling your book. To the contrary; I
| tend to beleive that having a properly indexed and tightly
| integrated online format might even might help selling the book.
|
| For example; I have HTML help versions _and_ printed copies of
| the - outdated - Zope docs, and one of each from the actual
| howto-collection, and I'm using them both.
|
| --
| Wolfgang Strobl
|
| ___
| Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
| **   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
| (Related lists -
|  http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
|  http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )


___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-10-31 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 10/31/00 11:08 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
For example; I have HTML help versions _and_ printed copies of
the - outdated - Zope docs, and one of each from the actual
howto-collection, and I'm using them both.

Wolfgang - How about putting up your HTML help version of the 
howto-collection? That would be very cool. Thanks!

--
Dennis Nichols
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-10-31 Thread Jeff Hoffman

On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:

 On 31 Oct 2000, at 12:54, Michel Pelletier wrote:
 
  That was a joke.  Sorry.
 
 Uh, oh.  Well, my thought was as follows: people are already 
 annoucing making PDF versions, which are a much greater 
 potential harm to to the number of sales of a printed book.With a 
 good pdf file, I can get to my local prinshop and get a perfect 
 bounded book back within half an hour.
 
 On the other hand, a MS HTML help file is of little use other than 
 having a compact, searchable file which fits well into a 
 development environment on Windows. Frankly, I can't see how 
 these could do any harm to selling your book. To the contrary; I 
 tend to beleive that having a properly indexed and tightly 
 integrated online format might even might help selling the book. 

I certainly can't speak for O'Rielly, but I can take a guess at their
logic. It goes something like this:

If people begin reproducing copies of the book, in PDF, HTML Help,
whatever form, and distributing it, they will soon be all over the net.
It is not in its finished form. It may have misspellings, or technical
errors that will (hopefully) be corrected before publication.

When the final version comes out, will they be able to guarantee that all
old copies of the book are updated with the final version? If someone
downloads a copy with a lot of errors, and gets a bad impression of the
book, is that fair to O'Reilly, given that it was not the final version
they were looking at?

If we simply wait until its final before reproducing it, this becomes much
easier to manage.

At least, that's my $0.02.

 Wolfgang Strobl

--Jeff

---
Jeff K. Hoffman   704.849.0731 x108
Chief Technology Officer  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Going Virtual, L.L.C. http://www.goingv.com/


___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )




[Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-10-30 Thread Michel Pelletier


Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the
Zope Book Beta.  This is the complete, technical draft of the book with
all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!). 
Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors is
missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API reference,
and the DTML reference.  We've received over a hundred comments,
corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much
better book.  This is the one to print out and give to your friends as
christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at
http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/.

Enjoy,

-Michel

___
Zope maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
(Related lists - 
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
 http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )