[Zope] developer docs

2005-04-12 Thread Milos Prudek
What are the best documents for creating Zope products?
I know Zope Book very well and I write TTW scripts. I need to convert a 
bunch of ZClasses into Products.

ZDG seems very outdated. Should I start with mxmEasyProduct and then 
read ZDG? Is there a book available in bookshops that is better than ZDG 
and contains all required information for building products?

--
Milos Prudek
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Re: [Zope] developer docs

2005-04-12 Thread Andreas Jung

--On Dienstag, 12. April 2005 13:46 Uhr +0200 Milos Prudek [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
ZDG seems very outdated. Should I start with mxmEasyProduct and then read
ZDG? Is there a book available in bookshops that is better than ZDG and
contains all required information for building products?
Why is it out-dated? Most things are still valid. If not, point them out to 
be
corrected or even better: help producing a never version of the ZDG.

-aj


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Re: [Zope] developer docs

2005-04-12 Thread Milos Prudek
 Why is it out-dated? Most things are still valid. If not, point them out
 to be
 corrected or even better: help producing a never version of the ZDG.
Hello Andreas,
This kind of response is so common that it deserves a shortcut of its 
own. Such as RTFM. You essentially told me to f*k off. But I did not 
attack ZDG.

ZDG has some outdated parts. You admit that. By following it, I will 
create incorrect code or use obsolete constructs. At least that is what 
reader comments say in ZDG. Well, I do not want to create obsolete 
constructs.

I am looking for a book that will help me. That is all.
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Re: [Zope] developer docs

2005-04-12 Thread Andreas Jung
--On Dienstag, 12. April 2005 15:02 Uhr +0200 Milos Prudek [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

  Why is it out-dated? Most things are still valid. If not, point them
out
  to be
  corrected or even better: help producing a never version of the ZDG.
Hello Andreas,
This kind of response is so common that it deserves a shortcut of its
own. Such as RTFM. You essentially told me to f*k off. But I did not
attack ZDG.
I never said that - neither directly nor between the lines.
ZDG has some outdated parts. You admit that.
I haven't had the ZDG in my hands lately. But from that what  I have in 
memory
most things are still true because the basic haven't changed. If yes, point
them out instead of make such comments.

By following it, I will
create incorrect code or use obsolete constructs. At least that is what
reader comments say in ZDG. Well, I do not want to create obsolete
constructs.
It is your good right to expect documentation but documentation has to be 
written
and maintained. Means: someone has to volunteer and take over *some* 
responsibilities.
Complaining about missing, out-dated docs or whatever is one side of the 
medal, helping
to improve thing is the other side *wink*

And don't be pissed off when I try to point out that the community also 
has to take over
some tasks instead of only having expectations.

-aj


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Re: [Zope] developer docs

2005-04-12 Thread Cliff Ford
Milos Prudek wrote:
What are the best documents for creating Zope products?
I know Zope Book very well and I write TTW scripts. I need to convert a 
bunch of ZClasses into Products.

ZDG seems very outdated. Should I start with mxmEasyProduct and then 
read ZDG? Is there a book available in bookshops that is better than ZDG 
and contains all required information for building products?

I don't know about best documents! There is a minimal Product How To:
http://www.zope.org/Members/maxm/HowTo/minimal_01/
Faced with the same problem (conversion of ZClasses to file system 
Products), I decided to have a look at Zope3X. There are a couple of 
good new books with worked examples - but as soon as I stepped off the 
guided path I found myself struggling. Still, I think I can see how to 
go from 2.7 to 3 and not bother with ZClasses.

Cliff
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Re: [Zope] developer docs

2005-04-12 Thread Stephan Richter
On Tuesday 12 April 2005 09:47, Cliff Ford wrote:
 Faced with the same problem (conversion of ZClasses to file system
 Products), I decided to have a look at Zope3X. There are a couple of
 good new books with worked examples - but as soon as I stepped off the
 guided path I found myself struggling. Still, I think I can see how to
 go from 2.7 to 3 and not bother with ZClasses.

I'll note that we *try* to answer questions on the zope3-users mailing list in 
a timely fashion. If noone response to your question there, it is usually 
because it is a harder problem. ;-)

Regards,
Stephan
-- 
Stephan Richter
CBU Physics  Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student)
Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training
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Re: [Zope] developer docs

2005-04-12 Thread Milos Prudek
 It is your good right to expect documentation but documentation has to
 be written
I've written about 50 pages of rather detailed documentation for Zope 
Page Templates and it is available online at www.root.cz. But not in 
English. So I know, understand and follow the concept you mentioned.

I do not feel I can contribute to ZDG at this time. Is there any other 
resource you can recommend, please?

--
Milos Prudek
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Re: [Zope] developer docs

2005-04-12 Thread Milos Prudek

I'll note that we *try* to answer questions on the zope3-users mailing list in 
a timely fashion. If noone response to your question there, it is usually 
because it is a harder problem. ;-)
I found out that you wrote a book about Zope 3 that gather raving 
reviews on Amazon. Does the book contain all info required to develop 
products (or whatever are they called in Zope 3) for Zope 3?

--
Milos Prudek
http://www.spoxdesign.com - your web usability testing
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Re: [Zope] developer docs

2005-04-12 Thread Stephan Richter
On Tuesday 12 April 2005 11:01, Milos Prudek wrote:
  I'll note that we *try* to answer questions on the zope3-users mailing
  list in a timely fashion. If noone response to your question there, it is
  usually because it is a harder problem. ;-);-)

 I found out that you wrote a book about Zope 3 that gather raving
 reviews on Amazon. Does the book contain all info required to develop
 products (or whatever are they called in Zope 3) for Zope 3?

Yes. In Zope X3.0 you can only develop filesystem-based Python packages, so in 
fact this is all the book covers. Section C has a fairly complex example of a 
message board application, complete with simple and containerish content 
objects. Other sections of the book cover the development of different 
components using filesystem-based development.

Regards,
Stephan
-- 
Stephan Richter
CBU Physics  Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student)
Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training
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Re: [Zope] developer docs

2005-04-12 Thread Milos Prudek
I don't know about best documents! There is a minimal Product How To:
http://www.zope.org/Members/maxm/HowTo/minimal_01/
That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!
--
Milos Prudek
http://www.spoxdesign.com - your web usability testing
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Re: [Zope] developer docs

2005-04-12 Thread Milos Prudek
Yes. In Zope X3.0 you can only develop filesystem-based Python packages, so in 
Well, then your book debuted at number 1 on my book shopping list.
--
Milos Prudek
http://www.spoxdesign.com - your web usability testing
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Re: [Zope] developer docs

2005-04-12 Thread Stephan Richter
On Tuesday 12 April 2005 11:47, Milos Prudek wrote:
  Yes. In Zope X3.0 you can only develop filesystem-based Python packages,
  so in

 Well, then your book debuted at number 1 on my book shopping list.

Cool. :-)

Regards,
Stephan
-- 
Stephan Richter
CBU Physics  Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student)
Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training
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Re: [Zope] developer docs

2005-04-12 Thread Paul Winkler
On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 04:37:58PM +0200, Milos Prudek wrote:
 I do not feel I can contribute to ZDG at this time. Is there any other 
 resource you can recommend, please?

ZDG is really it.  It could use some cleanup to fold in the
comments and errata that are posted to the online version.
For now, just read the ZDG and heed the comments.

I personally do not use mxmEasyProduct. I did at one point, but I found
that while it's a timesaver for trivial things, I ended up having to
understand plain old Product development anyway, anytime I wanted to do
something different, plus I had to figure out how mxmMinimal worked.
That's typical of frameworks that hide details from you...
great until you want the details back ;-)

Rather, I would look at the venerable old Boring and Minimal 
example products.  (But be aware that Boring (last time I looked)
used the old-style security declarations.  Instead
of an __ac_permissions__ attribute, you should use
ClassSecurityInfo as shown in, well, just about any Product
you have lying around.)

I know, this all screams for an organized, updated effort :-(

-- 

Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
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Re: [Zope] developer docs

2005-04-12 Thread Milos Prudek
Rather, I would look at the venerable old Boring and Minimal 
example products.  (But be aware that Boring (last time I looked)
Oh yes, I will look at those. Thanks for the supporting documentation in 
your post.

--
Milos Prudek
http://www.spoxdesign.com - your web usability testing
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