On Wed, May 31, 2000 at 10:45:31PM +1200, Rodger Donaldson wrote:
the sheer, stupid *hatred* directed by a big
chunk of the list at anyone who doesn't draw and quarter perl
programmers on
sight
That's an overstatement.
But if this list is representitive of the python
community - well,
On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 01:39:56AM +1000, Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote:
+[ Chris McDonough ]-
| This is pretty silly.
I agree, it got silly about 8 hours ago.
I'll go with that. In fact, the sheer, stupid *hatred* directed by a big
chunk of
Rodger Donaldson wrote:
I'll go with that. In fact, the sheer, stupid *hatred* directed by a big
chunk of the list at anyone who doesn't draw and quarter perl programmers on
sight has me convinced not to bother with Zope any more; I can work with
a variety of *tools* like Mason and ACS,
:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Rodger Donaldson
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 5:46 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Zope] ANN: Perl For Zope
On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 01:39:56AM +1000, Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote:
+[ Chris McDonough
Chris McDonough wrote:
Isn't this covered in the FAQ?
The FAQ wasn't referred to directly in the original announcement; there
was a web page with a FAQ but my mail message was already gone before
I read the FAQ.
Honestly I'm sort of surprised that there is such a strong reaction to
this.
Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote:
+[ Chris McDonough ]-
| This is pretty silly.
I agree, it got silly about 8 hours ago.
I don't think I've ever seen paranoia and religious fervour mixed in
quite the same way before. Anyone would think that
Look, a whole bunch of great questions for Wed's IRC chat. :^)
I propose 1PM Eastern on Wed for the chat. We'll make a more formal
announcement tomorrow. (Right, Ethan?)
--Paul
Jimmie Houchin wrote:
Are Python Products considered implementation level?
Or another question. What are the
I'd happilly pay a few hundred bucks to be able to use Scheme
(more specifically Guile with GOOPS and perhaps CMH could use
this as an excuse to get finished).
[]s,
|alo
+
--
Hack and Roll
I have kept silent on this issue while watching comments fly by.
I'll agree with a comment Paul made about passions being high and that
can be a good thing. Disagreements are sometimes inevitable, however we
do not have to be disagreeable.
It seems that many here who do not share the concerns
Are Python Products considered implementation level?
Or another question. What are the current reasons that Perl Products are
a no no?
Where are the lines for having other languages being first class
citizens of Zope without them being "implementation languages"?
I think this also goes back to
then educate people as to how to use YNPLOC in
a way that matches the Zope philosophy.
Ha, "educate people"! Educate people not to use Windows? Educate them at
least not to be beaten by ILOVEYOE virus? Anyone succeede in this educating?
A lot of people use Windows because they either
Michel Pelletier wrote:
Martijn Faassen wrote:
J. Atwood wrote:
Stunned. Totally and utterly stunned. I would have thought there
would be Java floating around in Zope's bowl before Perl! Perl?
Jeeze... what a great but very scary thing. I trust that DC will do
it right.
I'd
On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 03:02:42PM +, Michael Bernstein wrote:
In you hadn't noticed, ActiveState already has dealings
'with the dark side'.
Bring on the paranoia people! Microsoft _invests_ in ActiveState. ActiveState
originally started with a Win32 port of Perl, together with support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jim Fulton
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
In the future, I'd be happy (and expect) to see
other languages supported, XQL, TCL, PHP, lisp,
Fortran, . :)
What I would like to see first is support for Rebol ( www.rebol.com
+[ Denis [Fr_re] ]-
[Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...]
| "J. Atwood" wrote:
|
| Stunned. Totally and utterly stunned. I would have thought there
| would be Java floating around in Zope's bowl before Perl! Perl?
| Jeeze...
Paul Everitt wrote:
Howdy gang. Below is an announcement that we'll start distributing over
the next 24 hours. I wanted to let you folks see it first. In summary:
Perl Methods.
Why is this a good thing? ;-)
Chris
___
Zope maillist - [EMAIL
Agreed...
We can use COM, CORBA, SOAP, etc.
~BDW
At 05:19 25/05/00 -0400, Paul Everitt wrote:
That's quite a strained metaphor. I'll be pretty unequivocal. Anyone
that thinks we are lessening our commitment to Python (a) hasn't read
the FAQ before reacting and (b) doesn't know us very well.
Budi Wiyono wrote:
Agreed...
We can use COM, CORBA, SOAP, etc.
On the other hand, we'll likely do even more things like this over the
year: open up to COM, CORBA, etc. as method facilities.
--Paul
Now ya talkin :-)
bring it on...
Chris
Well, I can see good points here. Perl methods probably will attract
more users. But I can see bad points, too. What if my perl developer
resigned? Should I pick up his code? I don't want, I want Python. Should I
I'm personally looking forward to being able to use Perl with Zope, so
long
The only badness I can see coming out of this is this:
At present, I can consult at a client who is running Zope, and I'm
reasonably confident that I can read and understand all their code.
When people can write their site half in Perl, I could well
be stuck...
unless I learn Perl :-)
On Thu, 25 May 2000, Kevin Dangoor wrote:
People who are big fans of python aren't forced to use those Products, but I
Very soon we'll be forced, 'cause most Products will be in Perl (yse,
I've read the FAQ and saw "no Perl Products"; it's temporary, mark you).
Oleg.(All
Well, I can see good points here. Perl methods probably will attract
more users. But I can see bad points, too. What if my perl developer
resigned? Should I pick up his code? I don't want, I want Python. Should I
spent a lot of time manually converting his code to Python Method and debug
Chris McDonough wrote:
This is pretty silly.
Very soon we'll be forced, 'cause most Products will be in
Perl (yse,
I've read the FAQ and saw "no Perl Products"; it's temporary,
mark you).
I have to say, I'm not convinced it is. Providing Perl methods is like
drilling a hole
+[ Chris McDonough ]-
| This is pretty silly.
I agree, it got silly about 8 hours ago.
I don't think I've ever seen paranoia and religious fervour mixed in
quite the same way before. Anyone would think that people think that
python is inadequate
+[ Chris Withers ]-
|
| This userbase gets into hacking the core and bring perl into there.
|
| Suddenly Zope is a total mess of perl and python and the whole community
| shifts onto something cleaner leaving DC high and dry and spoiling a
|
Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote:
I find the whole 'perl will pollute us' mentality quite disappointing,
it's worse than a bunch of school girls arguing over which all boy
band is best.
You never seen blokes arguing over which girl band is best ;-)
I agree though since it's a moot point anyway.
I find the whole 'perl will pollute us' mentality quite disappointing,
it's worse than a bunch of school girls arguing over which all boy
band is best.
You never seen blokes arguing over which girl band is best ;-)
It's a coin flip between Kittie and L7 IMHO, anyone who disagrees can
Chris Withers wrote:
I have to say, I'm not convinced it is. Providing Perl methods is like
drilling a hole through a dyke wall. By getting loads of perl
programmers on board, you suddenly have a large userbase wishing they
can do more in perl, so you implement perl products. (yes, I've read
- Original Message -
From: "Chris Withers" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "Kevin Dangoor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: "Chris McDonough" [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; "Zope
Mailing List" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 11:05 AM
Subject
On Thu, 25 May 2000, John Chandler wrote:
then educate people as to how to use YNPLOC in
a way that matches the Zope philosophy.
Ha, "educate people"! Educate people not to use Windows? Educate them at
least not to be beaten by ILOVEYOE virus? Anyone succeede in this educating?
It's not
Itamar Shtull-Trauring wrote:
Chris Withers wrote:
I have to say, I'm not convinced it is. Providing Perl methods is like
drilling a hole through a dyke wall. By getting loads of perl
programmers on board, you suddenly have a large userbase wishing they
can do more in perl, so you
"J. Atwood" wrote:
Gang (and Paul),
I guess my major concern (and mosts) would be that one of the reasons
we like Python/Zope/OO is that it is not Perl and does not have all
that quirky structure and if you introduce Perl into Zope it would be
like throwing a pair of red socks in your
"J. Atwood" wrote:
The real question is: Can we get all those Perl people to help with
our documentation? :)
I hope so.
I, for one, will welcome my Perl brothers (actually sent the ANN
post to two of them five seconds after reading it) and hope that
together we can bring Zope to
Martijn Faassen wrote:
J. Atwood wrote:
Stunned. Totally and utterly stunned. I would have thought there
would be Java floating around in Zope's bowl before Perl! Perl?
Jeeze... what a great but very scary thing. I trust that DC will do
it right.
I'd agree with the scary part.
Digicool's announcement of some Perl support for Zope obviously
surprised a lot of people. I haven't seen much positive reaction here
on the list.
In fact, I daresay I have seen some concerns which I consider to be
quite valid indeed. After all, a web developer who is a Python
fanatic chooses
"Eric W. Sink" wrote:
After all, a web developer who is a Python
fanatic chooses Zope for its underlying language. [Sh|H]e is unlikely
to react warmly to the stench of Perl and the hideous possibility that
a customer might develop the expectation that Zope and Perl expertise
would go hand
Ooo Ooo - XSLT?
Presumably I should read your sentence as "You will have the option
of using Perl as well as XSLT methods pretty soon" and not "Thou wilt
need Perl to get XSLT methods" ? :)
The former... see http://www.zope.org/Wikis/zope-xml/UseCases
Paul Everitt wrote:
That's [the egg] quite a strained metaphor. I'll be pretty unequivocal. Anyone
that thinks we are lessening our commitment to Python (a) hasn't read
the FAQ before reacting and (b) doesn't know us very well.
On the other hand, we'll likely do even more things like
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