Re: [Zope] Zope Projects in NL/Europe?

2001-01-04 Thread Cees de Groot

Jonathan [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Just wondering: are there any Zope projects are available in the
Netherlands/Benelux/Europe? We did one last year but they seem hard to
find. Are there commercial projects available or is Zope mostly used on
internal projects? Is there any demand for Zope expertise around here?

We are using Zope and could use an extra pair of hands. We're an ISP, and
use Zope for our own development work (backoffice stuff, domain management
for customers, etcetera).

-- 
Cees de Groot   http://www.cdegroot.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
GnuPG 1024D/E0989E8B 0016 F679 F38D 5946 4ECD  1986 F303 937F E098 9E8B

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Re: [Zope] Zope Projects in NL/Europe?

2001-01-03 Thread Rik Hoekstra

(Writing from the Netherlands)


 Just wondering: are there any Zope projects are available in the
 Netherlands/Benelux/Europe? We did one last year but they seem hard to
 find. Are there commercial projects available or is Zope mostly used on
 internal projects? Is there any demand for Zope expertise around here?

From the (spontaneous) requests I have had over the last year about Zope
expertise, I can assure you that there is plenty of demand for Zope
expertise. The problem is mainly that it is harder to find (commercial)
expertise than to have projects available. Zope not (yet) being such a
widespread Web developing alternative, needs are less visible. We are using
Zope in our institution and there is too much work for me to handle, but I
have had a hard time finding developers who can help me out. I'm sure this
applies to more institutions and companies in the Netherlands (and Belgium
for that matter).

And, btw, not to be nitpicking, but how would people know you have Zope
expertise? Is it in your company profile, are you on the Zope service
provider page, have you offered your services somewhere visible.

The second point is of course that you could also prove Zope to be a viable
alternative over other web developing tasks, by just doing projects in Zope.
Or are all you customers asking for applications in specific technologies
rather than solutions with the highest quality/for the best price/in the
shortest time possible?



 Reason I'm asking is that I'd love to continue working with Zope, but
 it's hard to justify in a company focused on Microsoft and Oracle,
 especially if there is no money to be made. I can learn Perl on company
 time and Linux is our internet server OS of choice, but JSP/Java and
 .NET (the latter is not that bad, uses SOAP/XML-RPC) is next if we don't
 find a use for our Zope expertise.


I'd say: just do it and make yourself heard. You might be surprised.


Rik


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Re: [Zope] Zope Projects in NL/Europe?

2001-01-03 Thread Maik Röder

Hi Jonathan !

Jonathan wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 Just wondering: are there any Zope projects are available in the
 Netherlands/Benelux/Europe? We did one last year but they seem hard to
 find. Are there commercial projects available or is Zope mostly used on
 internal projects? Is there any demand for Zope expertise around here?

Find out yourself at the EuroZopeCon on the LinuxExpo in Amsterdam
January 23-24 2001 ;-)

http://zdp.zope.org/projects/eurozope/events/linuxexpo2001

BTW: EuroZope is an initiative to better support Zope in Europe. The
main topic
right now is Internationalization and planning the next Zope events. 

http://www.eurozope.org

The purpose of EuroZope is to develop a central European Zope community
that is not only a meeting and information point for European Zope
developers,
but also a useful contact source for press, exhibition staff, editors,
magazines and other entities from Europe interested in Zope. The
EuroZope 
members goal is to publicize Zope throughout Europe by organizing press
releases, writing articles and organizing events. 

Best regards,

Maik Röder

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RE: [Zope] Zope Projects in NL/Europe?

2001-01-03 Thread Jonathan

  Just wondering: are there any Zope projects are available in the
  Netherlands/Benelux/Europe?

 What do you mean by 'available'?

Ai, just spotted a grammatical error in my own message. By available I
mean projects that might need extra people/expertise in programming and
design. Most of our income is made by putting our people to work on
other people's projects (contract programming).

What I am interested in is the 'general state of the market'.

 What do you mean by 'hard to find' ? Where did you look?

On this list ;)  My own network is not large enough, our sales people
are not looking for it because we already have Perl in our 'open source
toolkit'. I can recommend Zope for use in our smaller projects, but the
larger projects tend to be Java based because that's what most of the
people around here have experience with and the client requires brand
names.

 It's a matter of convincing the
 client. Basically your client has to find Zope with your aid.

Try selling Zope to a large bank or an insurance company. Yes sir, we
would like to connect it to your mainframe. No sir, Python is not a
snake, it's a programming language ;)

 I think there is (lots of) money to make, but if your company has no
 strategy for Zope (only a, short sighted, strategy based, only on the
 major brand names) you are going nowhere with your Zope expertise
 within your company. Btw, if you have Zope knowledge you know that
Zope
 has no problems with Microsoft and Oracle.

It's a matter of analyzing your clients needs/wishes etc. and matching
the outcome of this process with the right tools, platform etc. :)  And
don't forget experience and expertise available within the company. Most
of our clients require brand name products that are well supported.
Don't get me started on the quality of support you get from Oracle
though ;)

We have large amounts of experience with Oracle and Microsoft
technologies. We have few content heavy projects, the emphasis is on
transaction heavy applications and backend connectivity.

 Btw Zope can be integrated with
 JSP/Java, SOAP/XML-RPC and Perl.

Yes I know. JSP/Java not that easy, but SOAP/XML-RPC and Perl are doable
;)

 My background,
 I''m co-president/owner of a Dutch based ICT consultancy firm
 (founded in
 1987). Our strategy is now focussed on Zope webapplications
 based on our
 'crystal ball' (content management is the keyword) and input from our
 clients.
 Besides that I'm one of the keymembers of a small team that developes
 webapplications, with Zope, for the Faculty of Social
 Sciences of the Leiden
 University. Part of this system is an advanced webbased
 learning system.

Impressive :)  Well, if you need any help, let me know ;)

Cya
Jonathan


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RE: [Zope] Zope Projects in NL/Europe?

2001-01-03 Thread Jonathan

 Find out yourself at the EuroZopeCon on the LinuxExpo in Amsterdam
 January 23-24 2001 ;-)

 http://zdp.zope.org/projects/eurozope/events/linuxexpo2001

Gotta be there :)

 BTW: EuroZope is an initiative to better support Zope in Europe. The
 main topic
 right now is Internationalization and planning the next Zope events.

 http://www.eurozope.org

 The purpose of EuroZope is to develop a central European Zope
 community that is not only a meeting and information point for
 European Zope developers, but also a useful contact source for
 press, exhibition staff, editors, magazines and other entities
 from Europe interested in Zope. The EuroZope members goal is to
 publicize Zope throughout Europe by organizing press
 releases, writing articles and organizing events.

A lofty goal indeed. Worth investing time in. Need hosting? :)  I'll
have a look as soon as I get a chance to send this message.

Cya
Jonathan


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Re: [Zope] Zope Projects in NL/Europe?

2001-01-02 Thread Henny van der Linde

Hi,

From the Netherlands,

- Original Message -
From: "Jonathan" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "Zope Mailinglist" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 12:43 AM
Subject: [Zope] Zope Projects in NL/Europe?


 Just wondering: are there any Zope projects are available in the
 Netherlands/Benelux/Europe?

What do you mean by 'available'?

 We did one last year but they seem hard to
 find.

What do you mean by 'hard to find' ? Where did you look?
I'ts a matter of analyzing your clients needs/wishes etc. and matching the
outcome of this process with the right tools, platform etc.
When in comes down to interactive, database driven web applications in
combination with decentralized content management we think Zope is the best
platform around
(btw it's our firm believe that these kind of websites will be very much in
demand, so there is money to be made). It's a matter of convincing the
client. Basically your client has to find Zope with your aid.

 Are there commercial projects available or is Zope mostly used on
 internal projects?

I guess you mean projects developed inhouse versus outhouse. It's my
impression that most Zope projects are at this moment developed inhouse
(BeNeLux). That doesn't mean that there isn't room for commercial
enterprises. It has more to do with 'playing safe', and lack of creativity
from the commercial perspective.

 Is there any demand for Zope expertise around here?

You have to create the demand (based on ... see above).

 Reason I'm asking is that I'd love to continue working with Zope, but
 it's hard to justify in a company focused on Microsoft and Oracle,
 especially if there is no money to be made.

I think there is (lots of) money to make, but if your company has no
strategy for Zope (only a, short sighted, strategy based, only on the major
brand names) you are going nowhere with your Zope expertise within your
company. Btw, if you have Zope knowledge you know that  Zope has no problems
with Microsoft and Oracle.

I can learn Perl on company
 time and Linux is our internet server OS of choice, but JSP/Java and
 .NET (the latter is not that bad, uses SOAP/XML-RPC) is next if we don't
 find a use for our Zope expertise.

(Repeat myself) What did you do to find it? Btw Zope can be integrated with
JSP/Java, SOAP/XML-RPC and Perl.

My background,
I''m co-president/owner of a Dutch based ICT consultancy firm (founded in
1987). Our strategy is now focussed on Zope webapplications based on our
'crystal ball' (content management is the keyword) and input from our
clients.
Besides that I'm one of the keymembers of a small team that developes
webapplications, with Zope, for the Faculty of Social Sciences of the Leiden
University. Part of this system is an advanced webbased learning system.



 Thnx
 Jonathan


regards,

Henny van der Linde



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