Re: [Zope] site structure
On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Nuno Goncalves wrote: How can we define a structure for an entire site with Zope ? for example i want that all the site's pages have a table with 3 colums. it's kind of a template for the web site ! Using standard_html_header and standard_html_footer in every Document on your site... But that way if i want to change the structure, i have to change on every page. My ideia was to create a template(3 colums) where i add objects (dtml documents). If i want to change the site structure to 2 colums i only change the template ! Nuno Oleg. Oleg Broytmann http://www.zope.org/Members/phd/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] site structure (fwd)
Using standard_html_header and standard_html_footer in every Document on your site... But that way if i want to change the structure, i have to change on every page. No, you only need to change 2 places: standard_html_header and standard_html_footer :) All Documents that use these header/footer will be rendered using new structure. Oleg. Oleg Broytmannhttp://phd.pp.ru/[EMAIL PROTECTED] Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] site structure (fwd)
From: Oleg Broytmann But that way if i want to change the structure, i have to change on every page. No, you only need to change 2 places: standard_html_header and standard_html_footer :) All Documents that use these header/footer will be rendered using new structure. I think you misunderstand him. He is actually right. Some things are pretty hard to do in zope, because of the header/footer principle. Making a global look to a site can be pretty difficult if it doesn't fit nicely into a header/footer structure, with a main area being the pages' unique content. If I where to do it in regular Python I would use special classes for special layouts. That is hard to do in Zope. Regards maxm Max M. W. Rasmussen,Denmark. New Media Director private: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Specialization is for insects. - Robert A. Heinlein ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] site structure (fwd)
On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Max M wrote: If I where to do it in regular Python I would use special classes for special layouts. That is hard to do in Zope. Why hard? Not hard at all - develop your own set of classes, make it into a Product, and use instance of these classes instead of DTML Documents. Actually, there is nothing special in DTML Documents - they are instances of DTMLDocument class, nothing more. Creating your own type of document is not harder, IMHO. Oleg. Oleg Broytmann http://www.zope.org/Members/phd/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] site structure (fwd)
On Thu, Dec 14, 2000 at 06:25:19PM +0100, Max M wrote: Some things are pretty hard to do in zope, because of the header/footer principle. Making a global look to a site can be pretty difficult if it doesn't fit nicely into a header/footer structure, with a main area being the pages' unique content. Although I agree that Zope misses real templates (like in M4 or, to take a more Web-centric example, in WML http://www.engelschall.com/sw/wml/, there are several workarounds: 1) if you need "standard" elements between header and footer, a bit of discipline from the page authors (which can be helped by tools like HTML-kit, where you can define a template for the new and empty page): dtml-var header ... Content here dtml-var inbetween .. More content here dtml-var footer 2) DTML methods allow you to replace a lot of what would be document-specific elements (such as context-dependant navigation bars), helping to stay in the header/footer paradigm. On the other hand, they are very complicated to use properly. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] site structure (fwd)
i see !!! i have just found a package ZopeFish that has ZFSuite. ZFSuite has an object (ZF document template) that defines a layout and structure for the entire site. More info at http://www.zope.org/WikiCentral/ZFWiki still i installed it (it is a bunch of libs) but i haven't tested it ! if i get it work i will tell you thanks On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Max M wrote: From: Oleg Broytmann But that way if i want to change the structure, i have to change on every page. No, you only need to change 2 places: standard_html_header and standard_html_footer :) All Documents that use these header/footer will be rendered using new structure. I think you misunderstand him. He is actually right. Some things are pretty hard to do in zope, because of the header/footer principle. Making a global look to a site can be pretty difficult if it doesn't fit nicely into a header/footer structure, with a main area being the pages' unique content. If I where to do it in regular Python I would use special classes for special layouts. That is hard to do in Zope. Regards maxm Max M. W. Rasmussen,Denmark. New Media Director private: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Specialization is for insects. - Robert A. Heinlein ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] site structure (fwd)
On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Oleg Broytmann wrote: On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Max M wrote: If I where to do it in regular Python I would use special classes for special layouts. That is hard to do in Zope. Why hard? Not hard at all - develop your own set of classes, make it into a Product, and use instance of these classes instead of DTML Documents. Actually, there is nothing special in DTML Documents - they are instances of DTMLDocument class, nothing more. Creating your own type of document is not harder, IMHO. I was thinking about that to ! But how could you build a page with the template developed ?? something like: dtml var template(COMPONENTS LIKE HEADER AND FOOTER AS ARGUMENTS) and how can you generelize the objects to beeing used by the template ? Oleg. Oleg Broytmann http://www.zope.org/Members/phd/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] site structure (fwd)
On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Nuno Goncalves wrote: Why hard? Not hard at all - develop your own set of classes, make it into a Product, and use instance of these classes instead of DTML Documents. Actually, there is nothing special in DTML Documents - they are instances of DTMLDocument class, nothing more. Creating your own type of document is not harder, IMHO. I was thinking about that to ! But how could you build a page with the template developed ?? something like: dtml var template(COMPONENTS LIKE HEADER AND FOOTER AS ARGUMENTS) and how can you generelize the objects to beeing used by the template ? No, no, no! :) You misunderstand how the Zope works. You think that basic building block is a piece of HTML (probably you think to put it into DTML Documents). No. In Zope basic building block is "instance of some python class". A DTML Document is an instance of DTMLDocument class, e.g. If you develop your own set of classes, you'll just build Zope sites creating instances of these classes - you put HTML fragmenst just into these instances. Zope will call your objects, you don't need to use DTML to call them. Oleg. Oleg Broytmann http://www.zope.org/Members/phd/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] site structure (fwd)
But how could you build a page with the template developed ?? something like: dtml var template(COMPONENTS LIKE HEADER AND FOOTER AS ARGUMENTS) and how can you generelize the objects to beeing used by the template ? No, no, no! :) You misunderstand how the Zope works. You think that basic building block is a piece of HTML (probably you think to put it into DTML Documents). No. In Zope basic building block is "instance of some python class". A DTML Document is an instance of DTMLDocument class, e.g. If you develop your own set of classes, you'll just build Zope sites creating instances of these classes - you put HTML fragmenst just into these instances. Zope will call your objects, you don't need to use DTML to call them. humm !!! I see now !! So i can have a general structure for all my site and when create a page, specifying the template to use and consequently adding the objects that i want ?? Nuno Oleg. Oleg Broytmann http://www.zope.org/Members/phd/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] site structure
Nuno Goncalves wrote: On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Nuno Goncalves wrote: How can we define a structure for an entire site with Zope ? for example i want that all the site's pages have a table with 3 colums. it's kind of a template for the web site ! Using standard_html_header and standard_html_footer in every Document on your site... But that way if i want to change the structure, i have to change on every page. My ideia was to create a template(3 colums) where i add objects (dtml documents). If i want to change the site structure to 2 colums i only change the template ! Nuno That is *exactly* what standard_dtml_header and ...footer are for. Together, they *are* your template. You *include* these in every document (using the dtml-var standard... tag. They'll show up in your documents at run time. Put the default template into the root folder and all your DTML documents will acquire it. In a sub-folder, you can either do nothing (then the acquired header and footer will be used), or override these with a folder-specicic template. See the Zope book, it explains it pretty well. Jan ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] site structure (fwd)
You may also want to take a look at HiperDOM as a templating mechanism as well. I haven't used it, but in looking at the Wiki and the examples, it looks like it would do what you are looking for, and from all accounts I have read, this will be the "official" Zope replacement for DTML for presentation logic in the future (relegating DTML for logic use, along with Perl and Python methods), and has a lot of cool features that allow you to create a template with mockup data that actually renders your presentation, replacing the mockup. http://www.zope.org/Members/lalo/HiperDom I'm working on a content-management project in which I am just starting to do real user interface work, and I am likely going to try switching over most of the presentation from DTML to HiperDOM. Anyway, creating valid XHTML documents for templates is an exciting idea, especially in the sense that this decreases the learning curve for a designer needing to work on presentation, but not logic - that is a definite need in my organization. Cheers, Sean -Original Message- From: Nuno Goncalves [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 9:51 AM To: Max M Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Zope@Zope. Org Subject: RE: [Zope] site structure (fwd) i see !!! i have just found a package ZopeFish that has ZFSuite. ZFSuite has an object (ZF document template) that defines a layout and structure for the entire site. More info at http://www.zope.org/WikiCentral/ZFWiki still i installed it (it is a bunch of libs) but i haven't tested it ! if i get it work i will tell you thanks On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Max M wrote: From: Oleg Broytmann But that way if i want to change the structure, i have to change on every page. No, you only need to change 2 places: standard_html_header and standard_html_footer :) All Documents that use these header/footer will be rendered using new structure. I think you misunderstand him. He is actually right. Some things are pretty hard to do in zope, because of the header/footer principle. Making a global look to a site can be pretty difficult if it doesn't fit nicely into a header/footer structure, with a main area being the pages' unique content. If I where to do it in regular Python I would use special classes for special layouts. That is hard to do in Zope. Regards maxm Max M. W. Rasmussen,Denmark. New Media Director private: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Specialization is for insects. - Robert A. Heinlein ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] site structure (fwd)
On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Nuno Goncalves wrote: humm !!! I see now !! So i can have a general structure for all my site and when create a page, specifying the template to use and consequently adding the objects that i want ?? No, you should separate design (template) and content. Actually, it is possible even without creating a python product - you put content (HTML fragments) into small DTML Documents, and define design (template) using DTML Methods - standard_html_header/footer and other methods, your custom methods. Think, for example, you want to create a site with the following design: - | || left | CONTENT1| right | column | | column | | special || | fature || | || | CONTENT2|| | || - Easy! (Thanks, Zope! :) You define "left column" in standard_html_header, "right column" in standard_html_footer, in every folder put two pieces of content and feature into 3 DTML Documents, and call these Documents again from standard_html_header (or DTML Methods that will be called from standard_html_header). In outline, your standard_html_header will looks like the following: HTMLHEADTITLEdtml-var title_or_id/TITLE/HEAD tabledtml-commentI'll skip most HTML-related things like tr td etc/dtml-comment dtml-var left-column dtml-var CONTENT1 dtml-var feature dtml-var CONTENT2 Oleg. Oleg Broytmann http://www.zope.org/Members/phd/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] site structure (fwd)
Getting fairly familiarized with namespaces and acquisition is going to be useful here. You actually will need to do 2 templates (one for the footer, and one for the header) in the case of writing a "wrapper." That said, objects in Zope (like a document, in this case) behave based upon their context or environment. A DTML document, when it is told to render something with dtml-var name="foo" looks for foo in it's current namespace (i.e. the folder it is in), and if it doesn't find it, it then works its way upward (by looking in the namespace of the folder that is the parent of the folder it just looked in before). When it finds foo, it renders that method (or if foo is an attribute, it renders its value). Let us suppose that your document is called bar, and looks like this: htmlbody dtml-var name="foo" /body/html bar is in a folder hierarchy that looks like this (using URL syntax) http://mysite.com/folder1/subfolder/bar bar would first look for foo as an attribute of it's own namespace (i.e. it would look to see if you defined a custom property called foo in the properties of the document). If it found it, it would render it, but let's suppose that it does not find it, so it has to look in another namespace. So, it moves up to the next namespace (subfolder) looking for foo, as either a method of that folder or a data member (attribute). If it finds it, it renders it. If not, it moves up to folder1 as the next namespace, and perhaps that is where it finds foo; in that case it renders foo. Seems rather simple, and in some cases it is, but what if foo is a dtml method and looks like the following? h1Title:dtml-var title/h1 Where does foo look for title? Not in folder1, where foo resides, but in in bar's namespace, and indeed, since dtml documents have a title attribute, that will be rendered. If, instead of title, we had an attribute named something like "what" but there was no attribute named "what" in bar, it would look through the namespace stack (starting with the namespaces of bar, then subfolder then folder1, then the root folder, etc), until it found what it was looking for. This, I hope, explains acquisition well. If you were to apply this to templating strategies, you would realize, that (as long as you kept standard_html_header and standard_html_footer in sync) that you could do some powerful things with your site navigation. Consider the following example: Suppose you have a sports news site, and you publish stories about baseball, football, and basketball. In the upper right hand-corner of your document (i.e. in the header portion) you have an 32x32 icon image that is a picture of a football, basketball, and baseball, respectively. Otherwise, you wanted to use the same template for all of the documents. Suppose that you have a folder structure like this: -/ -basketball -baseball -football In this case, you could have a standard_html_header in the root folder / that creates the top portion of your document, so you only have to use one template, and that the template might have code that looks like this: !--html here-- dtml-var name="sports-icon.gif" !--more html here-- In this case, you could have an image in each folder (basketball, football, baseball) containing an appropriate image with the id of sports-icon.gif. This is useful, because now, one template is rendering sports news stories different folders differently, depending upon the context of the folder they are contained in. In this simple example, you don't even need to create a different standard_html_header for every folder to create different results, but can rely upon Zope's built-in acquisition smarts to work for you. Applying this in practice, takes some playing around with, but once you get a clear idea of applying this, you can create some very intelligent standard_html_headers that do a lot of work for you. Hope this helps, Sean -Original Message- From: Nuno Goncalves [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 10:19 AM To: Oleg Broytmann Cc: Max M; Zope@Zope. Org Subject: RE: [Zope] site structure (fwd) But how could you build a page with the template developed ?? something like: dtml var template(COMPONENTS LIKE HEADER AND FOOTER AS ARGUMENTS) and how can you generelize the objects to beeing used by the template ? No, no, no! :) You misunderstand how the Zope works. You think that basic building block is a piece of HTML (probably you think to put it into DTML Documents). No. In Zope basic building block is "instance of some python class". A DTML Document is an instance of DTMLDocument class, e.g. If you develop your own set of classes, you'll just build Zope sites creating instances of these classes - you put HTML fragmenst just into these instances. Zope will call your objects, you don't need to use DTML to call them. humm !!! I see now !! So i can have
RE: [Zope] site structure
If you are like me, you like to keep your standard_html_[header,footer] fairly stock. I have started including dtml-method components in my pages like this: dtml-var name="standard_html_header" dtml-var name="top_navbar" *CONTENT HERE* dtml-var name="bottom_navbar" dtml-var name="standard_html_footer" Though, I have a difficult situation: If I understand correctly, definition of JavaScript functions belongs in the head tags. Does anyone know how to do this? Troy -Original Message- From: Jan H. Haul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 12:17 PM To: Nuno Goncalves Cc: Oleg Broytmann; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zope] site structure Nuno Goncalves wrote: On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Nuno Goncalves wrote: How can we define a structure for an entire site with Zope ? for example i want that all the site's pages have a table with 3 colums. it's kind of a template for the web site ! Using standard_html_header and standard_html_footer in every Document on your site... But that way if i want to change the structure, i have to change on every page. My ideia was to create a template(3 colums) where i add objects (dtml documents). If i want to change the site structure to 2 colums i only change the template ! Nuno That is *exactly* what standard_dtml_header and ...footer are for. Together, they *are* your template. You *include* these in every document (using the dtml-var standard... tag. They'll show up in your documents at run time. Put the default template into the root folder and all your DTML documents will acquire it. In a sub-folder, you can either do nothing (then the acquired header and footer will be used), or override these with a folder-specicic template. See the Zope book, it explains it pretty well. Jan ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] site structure
Well, just put them there. The head section is in standard_html_header, open it up and add your script section. Bill. On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Farrell, Troy wrote: Though, I have a difficult situation: If I understand correctly, definition of JavaScript functions belongs in the head tags. Does anyone know how to do this? ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] site structure
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Farrell, Troy
Though, I have a difficult situation: If I understand correctly,
definition
of JavaScript functions belongs in the head tags. Does anyone know how
to
do this?
Just pop in them old:
script language="JavaScript"
!--
function allwaysTrue(){return 1;}
--
/script
anywhere on your page. Makes no difference.
or you could:
head
titleWhat goes here/title
dtml-var header_script missing
/head
And then just make shure that your "header_script" method doesn't do any
funny business through aquisition. ie. you should put an empty
"header_script" method if needed.
Regards Max M
___
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Re: [Zope] site structure
Nuno Goncalves writes: How can we define a structure for an entire site with Zope ? for example i want that all the site's pages have a table with 3 colums. it's kind of a template for the web site ! As others told you, you can use a header and footer to standardize layout. The header would define the top and left part of your site (i.e. your first table column); the bottom your right part of the site (i.e. the third table column) and the bottom part. The content between header and footer would define the center of the page (i.e. your second table column). If this does not provide enough flexibility, you can look into ZClasses. The page specific content would go into properties or content items of the ZInstances. The ZClass' "index_html" would combine all these elements into the final page. Dieter ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
