Re: [Zope-CMF] Re: CMF GenericSetup log levels
yuppie wrote: 1.) It would be nice to have a policy for Zope. If the Zope core officially supports the BLATHER level (not just in the deprecated zLOG module) I'm fine with using it in GenericSetup as well. It doesn't, ZODB has a mapping for it but it's a stupid name left over from before the same timeframe as STUPID_LOGGER and some of the wacky error messages that ZServer used to spit out. I really want it to die :-( Python has .info and .debug. If this stuff is useful and normal people will want to know it, it should be at info. If it's not really that interesting and is only useful when there's a problem, it should be at .debug 2.) So far IWriteLogger just defines methods that are also used by the python logging Logger. If we add a blather method we can no longer use the python logger as a replacement. Hmmm, this sounds odd. Why does IWriteLogger even exist if it just mirrors the python logging interface? 3.) I don't think all messages should have the same logging level. E.g. if there are problems that will cause broken setups WARNING might be appropriate. No, .error is what you want here. .warning is for things that are problems but which don't result in broken setups. Messages that report the success of export steps are a candidate for DEBUG. Agreed, although a summary logged at info at the end would be nice... Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF@lists.zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests
[Zope-CMF] Re: CMF GenericSetup log levels
Chris Withers wrote: yuppie wrote: 1.) It would be nice to have a policy for Zope. If the Zope core officially supports the BLATHER level (not just in the deprecated zLOG module) I'm fine with using it in GenericSetup as well. It doesn't, ZODB has a mapping for it but it's a stupid name left over from before the same timeframe as STUPID_LOGGER and some of the wacky error messages that ZServer used to spit out. I really want it to die :-( Stupid is in the eye of the beholder. You don't like something that's useful for others so you want it to die. Congratulations for your openmindedness. And you apparently can't grasp the idea that there can be different levels of informativeness. Python has .info and .debug. If this stuff is useful and normal people will want to know it, it should be at info. There's no such thing has normal people. There are many profiles. And at different times the same person may want to read information at a more detailed level than usual. Just INFO and DEBUG is not enough. Florent -- Florent Guillaume, Nuxeo (Paris, France) CTO, Director of RD +33 1 40 33 71 59 http://nuxeo.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF@lists.zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests
[Zope-CMF] Re: CMF GenericSetup log levels
Hi Chris! Chris Withers wrote: yuppie wrote: 1.) It would be nice to have a policy for Zope. If the Zope core officially supports the BLATHER level (not just in the deprecated zLOG module) I'm fine with using it in GenericSetup as well. It doesn't, ZODB has a mapping for it but it's a stupid name left over from before the same timeframe as STUPID_LOGGER and some of the wacky error messages that ZServer used to spit out. I really want it to die :-( It doesn't right now, but AFAIR the discussion on zope-dev ended without a clear result. The question if BLATHER should die isn't CMF specific in any way, so I don't want to discuss it on this list. 2.) So far IWriteLogger just defines methods that are also used by the python logging Logger. If we add a blather method we can no longer use the python logger as a replacement. Hmmm, this sounds odd. Why does IWriteLogger even exist if it just mirrors the python logging interface? Feel free to contribute a patch if you think this could be implemented in a cleaner way. I don't have the time to figure out how to use the Python logger for the reports created by the setup tool. The current implementation is a wrapper around the Python logger which adds a copy of all messages to the _messages list of the setup context. 3.) I don't think all messages should have the same logging level. E.g. if there are problems that will cause broken setups WARNING might be appropriate. No, .error is what you want here. No, WARNING is what I want here. .warning is for things that are problems but which don't result in broken setups. By 'broken setups' I meant e.g. if you loose some catalog indexes on export/import because no handler exists for those index classes. This is a problem you should know about, but maybe you don't care or you fix that by hand. Cheers, Yuppie ___ Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF@lists.zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests
[Zope-CMF] Re: CMF GenericSetup log levels
yuppie wrote: By 'broken setups' I meant e.g. if you loose some catalog indexes on export/import because no handler exists for those index classes. This is a problem you should know about, but maybe you don't care or you fix that by hand. Ah, okay, I kinda agree here, and don't feel strongly enough about it to argue :-) Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF@lists.zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests
[Zope-CMF] Re: CMF GenericSetup log levels
Hi Tres, Tres Seaver wrote: No, it isn't, at least in Zope. BLATHER is intended to be summary information, useful for developers but not important enough to show by default. DEBUG is for more detailed information, and TRACE is for completely overwhelming detail. Show me the docs in zope and I'll believe that's not just your interpretation ;-) Sure it is ;-) You seem to be confusign .info with .warning. If your funny customers get scared by stuff at .info, then change their log level in zope.conf to warning, then they won't bug you so much and in turn get you bugging the rest of us to log at the wrong levels ;-) Your misunderstanding of Zope's levels is clearly present in that sentence, Chris. Oh? Please explain... Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF@lists.zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests
[Zope-CMF] Re: CMF GenericSetup log levels
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chris Withers wrote: Florent Guillaume wrote: Stupid is in the eye of the beholder. You don't like something that's useful for others so you want it to die. Congratulations for your openmindedness. And you apparently can't grasp the idea that there can be different levels of informativeness. Are you honestly telling me that warning, info, debug, error and critical aren't enough? debug is the same as blather, just with a more meaningful name... No, it isn't, at least in Zope. BLATHER is intended to be summary information, useful for developers but not important enough to show by default. DEBUG is for more detailed information, and TRACE is for completely overwhelming detail. Python has .info and .debug. If this stuff is useful and normal people will want to know it, it should be at info. There's no such thing has normal people. There are many profiles. Yeah, that's why we have configurable log levels in zope.conf ;-) And at different times the same person may want to read information at a more detailed level than usual. Just INFO and DEBUG is not enough. Sure it is ;-) You seem to be confusign .info with .warning. If your funny customers get scared by stuff at .info, then change their log level in zope.conf to warning, then they won't bug you so much and in turn get you bugging the rest of us to log at the wrong levels ;-) Your misunderstanding of Zope's levels is clearly present in that sentence, Chris. Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 202-558-7113 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDoaCB+gerLs4ltQ4RAuJmAJsFmyaDr30bpVyMzHlviX3hOjgp/wCgxBwU raBfALEsvV/RoQHKNsXYEDM= =Hq2n -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF@lists.zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests
