[Zope-dev] zc.async versus Zope 2 SIGTERM

2012-03-01 Thread Christian Theune

Hi,

zc.async's shutdown mechanism doesn't really work with Zope 2's SIGTERM 
handling: in my case it causes the Async's threaded dispatcher to die in 
the middle of something:


Exception in thread Thread-1 (most likely raised during interpreter 
shutdown):

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File /home/ctheune/local/lib/python2.6/threading.py, line 532, in 
__bootstrap_inner

  File /home/ctheune/local/lib/python2.6/threading.py, line 484, in run
  File 
/home/ctheune/gocept/code/...deployment/eggs/zc.async-1.5.4-py2.6.egg/zc/async/subscribers.py, 
line 115, in start
  File 
/home/ctheune/gocept/code/...deployment/eggs/Twisted-10.2.0-py2.6-linux-x86_64.egg/twisted/internet/base.py, 
line 1158, in run
  File 
/home/ctheune/gocept/code/...deployment/eggs/Twisted-10.2.0-py2.6-linux-x86_64.egg/twisted/internet/base.py, 
line 1172, in mainLoop

type 'exceptions.AttributeError': 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'msg'

This ends up in the worker not correctly unregistered and thus on next 
startup:


Exception in thread Thread-1 (most likely raised during interpreter 
shutdown):

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File /home/ctheune/local/lib/python2.6/threading.py, line 532, in 
__bootstrap_inner

  File /home/ctheune/local/lib/python2.6/threading.py, line 484, in run
  File 
/home/ctheune/gocept/code/webwork.deployment/eggs/zc.async-1.5.4-py2.6.egg/zc/async/subscribers.py, 
line 115, in start
  File 
/home/ctheune/gocept/code/webwork.deployment/eggs/Twisted-10.2.0-py2.6-linux-x86_64.egg/twisted/internet/base.py, 
line 1158, in run
  File 
/home/ctheune/gocept/code/webwork.deployment/eggs/Twisted-10.2.0-py2.6-linux-x86_64.egg/twisted/internet/base.py, 
line 1172, in mainLoop

type 'exceptions.AttributeError': 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'msg'

The funny thing is: although this instance didn't get to register it 
will then on regular shutdown:


2012-03-01 11:54:56 INFO zc.async.events deactivated dispatcher
8da98af0-5c95-11e1-a205-0024e8d50597
2012-03-01 11:54:56 INFO SignalHandler Caught signal SIGINT
2012-03-01 11:54:56 INFO Z2 Shutting down

The first issue (fast shutdown) you can avoid by simply not sending 
SIGTERM and switching to always use SIGINT. (For some reason zdaemon 
seems to do that by default when sending SIGTERM to the daemon manager.)


The second issue seems like a bad thing. Right?

Any comments?
Christian



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[Zope-dev] Revert removal of ++skin++ in Zope4?

2011-11-16 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

I'd like to revert the removal of the ++skin++ traverser in Zope 4.

As we're working on a replacement ZMI at a sprint currently (more 
details about that in a bit) we'd like to leverage this feature.

 From my perspective, I value that Zope 2/4 has always made some choices 
upfront that one could leverage right away. Especially as multiple 
orthogonal components (like: your application and the ZMI) need to 
leverage this plugin point, I'd rather have this provided by the framework.

I couldn't find an argument anywhere why ++skin++ should be gone.

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Revert removal of ++skin++ in Zope4?

2011-11-16 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

On 11/16/2011 12:24 PM, Laurence Rowe wrote:
 On 16 November 2011 10:30, Christian Theunec...@gocept.com  wrote:
 Hi,

 I'd like to revert the removal of the ++skin++ traverser in Zope 4.

 As we're working on a replacement ZMI at a sprint currently (more
 details about that in a bit) we'd like to leverage this feature.

   From my perspective, I value that Zope 2/4 has always made some choices
 upfront that one could leverage right away. Especially as multiple
 orthogonal components (like: your application and the ZMI) need to
 leverage this plugin point, I'd rather have this provided by the framework.

 I couldn't find an argument anywhere why ++skin++ should be gone.

 It was removed in http://zope3.pov.lt/trac/changeset/122056 because it
 wasn't actually being used anywhere. I'm not completely averse to
 adding it back, but it does create confusion with the various
 different alternatives in Zope2 like CMF skins and plone.browserlayer.

I think it was not used by Zope2 itself - however, it's a feature 
provided by the framework that applications can use. I guess there might 
be features in a framework that the framework itself doesn't make use of.

Going down into the new ZMI project I find it to be the most 
light-weight approach without adding an extra dependency.

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Revert removal of ++skin++ in Zope4?

2011-11-16 Thread Christian Theune
On 11/16/2011 12:31 PM, Martin Aspeli wrote:
 On 16 November 2011 11:30, Christian Theunec...@gocept.com  wrote:

 Going down into the new ZMI project I find it to be the most
 light-weight approach without adding an extra dependency.

 What is this project? ;-)

We're currently sprinting in Berlin to explore a clean-up of the ZMI. 
We're experimenting a bit with some ideas and I'll make a write-up of 
what we found in the next days.

Technically we're investigating making a separate package that would 
allow us to remove the old cruft DTML-ZMI and replace it with a small, 
PT-based Zope4 application that runs in a separate skin.

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Revert removal of ++skin++ in Zope4?

2011-11-16 Thread Christian Theune
On 11/16/2011 02:06 PM, Tres Seaver wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On 11/16/2011 07:28 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote:
 On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:53, Charlie Clark
 charlie.cl...@clark-consulting.eu  wrote:
 Am 16.11.2011, 12:49 Uhr, schrieb Lennart Regebro
 rege...@gmail.com:

 Right. Could we standardize on skins or browserlayers plz? Having
 both confuses the heck out of me.

 Definitely a topic that needs (re)-opening. From a CMF point of I
 think we're just about at the point where we could switch to browser
 layers, well, at least once CMF 2.3 has been released. But I think
 that CMF Skins still offer some functionality that you don't get
 with browser layers out of the box.

 When I said skins I meant ++skins++. CMF Skins must die.

 Note that for all their warts, they are *massively* more successful than
 the Z3 reimplementation, which was overengineered (I helped with that,
 I'm sure).  In particular, the exceesive amount of ZCA majyk makes
 complicaterd uses of the Z3 skins very fragile (easy to misconfigure,
 hard to discover what you broke).

But they also have their merits. If I could make a wish, I'd like to see 
a shared implementation that marries all the benefits. :)

Something I love a lot is the ++skin++ traverser for example. I also 
like the idea of tagging the Request object with structured 
information (an interface) to indicate specialisation.

I hate that I have to spell the layer in each ZCML statement.

Just my 0.02,
Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Revert removal of ++skin++ in Zope4?

2011-11-16 Thread Christian Theune
On 11/16/2011 04:12 PM, Laurence Rowe wrote:
 On 16 November 2011 12:28, Lennart Regebrorege...@gmail.com  wrote:
 On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:53, Charlie Clark
 charlie.cl...@clark-consulting.eu  wrote:
 Am 16.11.2011, 12:49 Uhr, schrieb Lennart Regebrorege...@gmail.com:

 Right. Could we standardize on skins or browserlayers plz? Having both
 confuses the heck out of me.

 Definitely a topic that needs (re)-opening. From a CMF point of I think
 we're just about at the point where we could switch to browser layers,
 well, at least once CMF 2.3 has been released. But I think that CMF Skins
 still offer some functionality that you don't get with browser layers out
 of the box.

 When I said skins I meant ++skins++. CMF Skins must die.

 While I think there is definitely scope for simplifying the mix of
 competing skin concepts in the Zope/CMF/Plone space, we need to be
 careful not to bite off more than we can chew. We still have a lot of
 CMF skin scripts and templates in Plone that I don't want to become a
 blocker for adopting Zope 4. This should be the first of several
 releases that progressively rationalise our software stack, lets not
 try and do it all at once.

Ack.


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Re: [Zope-dev] Revert removal of ++skin++ in Zope4?

2011-11-16 Thread Christian Theune
On 11/16/2011 11:30 AM, Christian Theune wrote:
 Hi,

 I'd like to revert the removal of the ++skin++ traverser in Zope 4.

 As we're working on a replacement ZMI at a sprint currently (more
 details about that in a bit) we'd like to leverage this feature.

   From my perspective, I value that Zope 2/4 has always made some choices
 upfront that one could leverage right away. Especially as multiple
 orthogonal components (like: your application and the ZMI) need to
 leverage this plugin point, I'd rather have this provided by the framework.

 I couldn't find an argument anywhere why ++skin++ should be gone.

I'm interpreting the thread overall as an OK to revive the ++skin++ 
traverser.

Thanks,
Christian

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[Zope-dev] Zope 4 ZMI sprint report

2011-11-16 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

as you might have noticed there was a sprint and we'd like to update you 
on what happened. :) Sorry if we under-communicated beforehand.

As part of the DZUG[1] sprint series[2] we tried looking into what a 
refreshed ZMI for Zope 4 could be.

We started working on some code (it's really not that much) and gathered 
our thoughts[3] about the ZMI that might be interesting for you to read. 
We hope to follow up on this in the near future.

However, we also discussed technical and organisational hurdles that we 
met and that kept us from just doing the ZMI and we're currently 
approaching the Zope Foundation board about officially establishing 
the Zope 4 project and concentrating our efforts on that.

We think there will be a need (and we have some ideas for that) to 
establish project management, a mission statement and road map so that 
we can all channel our efforts together.

Cheers,
Christian Theune (and Charlie Clark, Veit Schiele, Yvo Schubbe, Jens 
Vagelpohl)

[1] In case you haven't heard, we're in the process of renaming this to
Python Software Verband - Germany's Python Software Foundation. So
 PySV will be showing up instead of DZUG in the future.

[2] We're working on a sprint series concept that will establish
 sprint opportunities for Python-related projects in Germany on a
 quarterly basis. I personally hope to use those to work on stuff
 like Zope 4 in a more productive manner than with those sprint days
 attached to an already exhausting conference.

[3] http://docs.zope.org/zmi.core/thoughts.html

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Re: [Zope-dev] Please, if you port to Python 3, port to 23

2011-05-08 Thread Christian Theune
On 05/05/2011 07:41 PM, Jim Fulton wrote:
 On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 3:01 AM, Lennart Regebrorege...@gmail.com  wrote:
 On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 17:36, Jim Fultonj...@zope.com  wrote:
 If we decide to port zope.org-based projects to Python 3, please
 please please, port them to Python 23 rather than relying on 2to3 (or
 3to2).  That is, update the code to work with both Python 2 and Python
 3.  Relying on 2to3 (or 3to2) is a headache for anyone who uses a
 develop installation of a package. (It's also rather annoying for
 someone installing a 2to3-based project in Python 3.)

 I'm not sure exactly what using a develop installation means or what
 headaches it causes,

 Often, when working on a project, I'll check it out and create a
 develop egg that allows me to work with it in place.  It's not
 practical to run 2to3 on it.  This is especially true if I'm working
 on it while I'm working on something else.

 but, for many projects supporting Python 2 and
 Python 3 without 2to3 is going to require massive changes and/or
 dropping Python 2.5 support. That has to be considered.

 Right, Python 3 is a giant pain.  2to3 is far from perfect, so
 significant changes are often needed even if you use 2to3.  I believe
 that the workflow impacts of 2to3 are far worse than the, admittedly
 painful, impacts of maintaining code that runs in Python 2.5-2.7 and
 3.2. Buildout works with all these versions and it's been fairly
 straightforward to make it do so.

Note: while Thomas and I worked on the Python 3 port of zc.buildout at 
the last Sprint we didn't even find it overly challenging to also keep 
Python 2.4 in the loop.

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] [buildout] private releases

2011-03-30 Thread Christian Theune
On 03/30/2011 07:12 AM, Wolfgang Schnerring wrote:
 * Martijn Pietersm...@zopatista.com  [2011-03-29 20:59]:
 On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 14:16, Adam GROSZERagroszer...@gmail.com  wrote:
 ...and just dump the .tgz sdists in that folder.
 Well the problem is that it's not always so simple.
 For me a release process is preferably a single command or a single
 click on a button.

 Both zest.releaser and jarn.mkrelease offer you simple single-command
 release options. I use jarn.mkrelease to make releases to private,
 password protected folders on our dist.jarn.com 'egg server' (apache
 directory indexes).

 (Shameless plug: ;-) gocept.zestreleaser.customupload is a plugin for
 zest.releaser that allows uploading the created egg via scp. We use this
 to put our non-public eggs into a folder that's served (and htpasswd
 protected) by an Apache or somesuch, no complicated egg server
 business required.

So those solutions then require you to put the password for accessing it 
somewhere during deployment ... where is that for you?

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[Zope-dev] 1st DZUG Sprint 2011

2011-03-25 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

the German speaking Zope Users Group (DZUG e.V.) organizes a series of 4 
sprints this year to support feature development within the proximity of 
the ZTK and solve problems encountered by Zope, Plone and Python developers.

This is the announcement of the first sprint, although it's a bit late, 
I'd like you to consider whether you might wanna join us.

Where and when
==

The sprint is scheduled for April 6th 2011 to April 8th 2011 and will 
take place at the Hasso-Plattner-Institut in Potsdam, Germany, which is 
where Martin v. Löwis is working at.

On April 8th there will be a separate event in the evening for 
presenting the results of the sprint to Non-Sprinters in a relaxed 
atmosphere.

Topics
==

The sprint topics will revolve around PyPI and zc.buildout including:

* Making PyPI faster (Chameleon integration)

* Adding support for the PyPI mirroring protocol to zc.buildout

* Discussing how to deal with private releases

* Porting zc.buildout to Python 3

More topic suggestions in this area are welcome - we'll gather them and 
review based on the following criteria:

* Each topic in the sprint should be supported and worked on by at
   least two developers from independent organisations (to ensure
   a reasonable amount of varying perspective).

* Each topic should be specific enough and limited in scope
   so that we can deal with it in 2 days in such a way that we
   get a result we can continue to build on and use.

* We do not only want to see code but also documentation: be
   prepared to write module-specific developer documentation as well
   as documentation on how to use what you build.

* Each topic shall be presented to others on Friday evening
   in a way that clarifies it's relevance and context.

Please send your topic suggestions to spri...@dzug.org.

Participation
=

Developers may participate after asking for an invitation and committing 
to one of the selected topics or suggesting a topic that gets selected.


The organisation team may actively invite developers whose reputation 
suggests that they would be highly valuable within the scope of the sprint.

Please be aware that the main working language of the sprint will be 
German. We're happy to have non-German-speaking developers around but be 
prepared to hear quite some amount of our tongue. ;)

Please send your requests for participation by email to
spri...@dzug.org

Sponsoring
==

Organizing those sprints requires financial support - to make this 
sprint series sustainable we kindly ask you to consider sponsoring our 
effort. We have prepared sponsoring packages of 250 EUR to support a 
single sprint or 800 EUR to support all 4 sprints. If you're interested 
in a sponsoring package, please contact me by direct email.


More information


More information is available on the sprint website in German at
http://www.zope.de/community/veranstaltungen/1.-dzug-sprint-2011

If you would like to get more information in English, feel free to 
respond to this post or contact me personally.

Best regards,
Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] We need to get the board green

2011-03-23 Thread Christian Theune
On 03/23/2011 08:45 AM, Adam GROSZER wrote:
 Hello,

 On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 07:43:26 +0100 you wrote:

 * Tres Seavertsea...@palladion.com   [2011-03-21 16:56]:
 Too many never-resolve failures in our buildbots makes their output just
 noise:  the amount of effort required to diagnose the cause of a failure
 seems to have no payoff if we don't get them each cleared up.

 On a tangentially-related note, what happened to the proposed new
 summarizer formatting? Half a year ago (or whenever), I got the
 impression it was going to be ready in a few days, but it seems it
 never happened. What is needed to get this switched?

 (I'm not saying dressing the continuous failures up nicer is a solution
 to the problem Tres is presenting, but I do think the noisy format
 contributes to the confusion about the buildbots)

 You mind walking over to Theuni and asking him? ;-)

Dang! I need to really change my lair now ...


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Re: [Zope-dev] Sprints at PyCon

2011-03-18 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

On 03/18/2011 04:47 AM, Chris McDonough wrote:
 On Sun, 2011-03-13 at 09:13 +0100, Christian Theune wrote:
 Hi Guys,

 On 02/10/2011 07:07 AM, Christian Theune wrote:
 Hi,

 I'll be at PyCon during the sprints. As promised from the tasks last
 year, I'd be happy to organize Zope sprinting activity.

 Who's coming? Who's interested? Any topic suggestions?

 Sorry for not updating earlier - I was recovering from a sickness.
 Unfortunately that also means I won't be at PyCon at all, including the
 sprints.

 I guess you'll see each other anyway. Can someone take the lead and get
 everyone who's working on Zope stuff to post a quick update here during
 the sprints on what's going on?

 We missed you there...

Heh, thanks! I'd really badly wanted to be there. But some virus told me 
otherwise. :/

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Re: [Zope-dev] proposed ZNagios changes

2011-03-14 Thread Christian Theune
On 03/14/2011 08:42 PM, Hanno Schlichting wrote:
 Hi.

 On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 7:56 PM, David Glickdavidgl...@groundwire.org  
 wrote:
 I'd like to make a couple changes to Products.ZNagios:
 1. Add an optional setting in the munin plugin configuration to control
 which database to report metrics for, in Zope instances with multiple
 mountpoints.
 2. Make the cacheconnections graph not assume that there are 4 connections.

 Are these changes okay? And can someone add me to the package on pypi (uid:
 davisagli)?

 I added you as a PyPi owner.

 Personally I don't use the package anymore, so don't have any relevant
 opinion on the changes ;)

Same here - specifically for the Munin stuff.

 P.S. I use http://pypi.python.org/pypi/munin.zope these days.


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Re: [Zope-dev] Sprints at PyCon

2011-03-13 Thread Christian Theune
Hi Guys,

On 02/10/2011 07:07 AM, Christian Theune wrote:
 Hi,

 I'll be at PyCon during the sprints. As promised from the tasks last
 year, I'd be happy to organize Zope sprinting activity.

 Who's coming? Who's interested? Any topic suggestions?

Sorry for not updating earlier - I was recovering from a sickness. 
Unfortunately that also means I won't be at PyCon at all, including the 
sprints.

I guess you'll see each other anyway. Can someone take the lead and get 
everyone who's working on Zope stuff to post a quick update here during 
the sprints on what's going on?

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Sprints at PyCon

2011-02-16 Thread Christian Theune
On 02/10/2011 07:38 AM, Baiju M wrote:
 Hi Theune,

 On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Baiju Mbaiju.m.m...@gmail.com  wrote:
 On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Christian Theunec...@gocept.com  wrote:
 Hi,

 I'll be at PyCon during the sprints. As promised from the tasks last
 year, I'd be happy to organize Zope sprinting activity.

 Who's coming? Who's interested? Any topic suggestions?

 I am coming to PyCON and planning to stay for sprint (all days).

 I have two suggestions:

 1. Port ZTK to Python 3
 2. Port ZTK to PyPy (trunk version is Python 2.7 compatible)

 I am interested to work on zc.buildout and recipes to port to Python 3.

Right. There's more interest in that from others, too. The whole of ZTK 
will take a while longer, though, I guess. ;)

 I added Zope project here, with your name as the leader :)
 http://us.pycon.org/2011/sprints/projects/

 It's a wiki, feel free to make changes!

Cool, thanks!

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[Zope-dev] Sprints at PyCon

2011-02-09 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

I'll be at PyCon during the sprints. As promised from the tasks last 
year, I'd be happy to organize Zope sprinting activity.

Who's coming? Who's interested? Any topic suggestions?

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] adduser command: give feedback about success

2011-01-08 Thread Christian Theune
On 01/07/2011 11:55 PM, Maurits van Rees wrote:
 Hi all,

 I saw that Hanno added an entry point in Zope2 to create a
 bin/addzope2user command, which does the same as the 'bin/zopectl
 adduser' command.

 That got me thinking that I have always found it not very helpful that
 this command never gave feedback about whether the user addition was
 successful or not.  In standard Zope2 it should always work as the
 _doAddUser method in AccessControl simply overwrites an existing user.
 But with Plone or other systems using Products.PluggableAuthService
 nothing is done in this case and the script just stops, giving you no
 clue that it failed.

 I propose to add this feedback.  This needs a few simple changes in
 Zope2/utilities, Zope2/Startup, AccessControl,
 Products.PluggableAuthService, and a few doctest fixes in Products.Five.
The change to Zope2/utilities/adduser.py would be this:

 ===
 -adduser(app, user, pwd)
 +result = adduser(app, user, pwd)
 +if result:
 +print User %s created. % user
 +else:
 +print Got no result back. User creation may have failed.
 +print Maybe the user already exists and nothing is done then.
 +print Or the implementation does not give info when it succeeds.
 ===

 The wording leaves room for the current _doAddUser implementations that
 simply never return info.

 Is it okay if I do this?

Sounds bearable given what we have. :)

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[Zope-dev] Stopping weekly meetings, moving towards sprints

2010-12-21 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

during my holidays I evaluated where I spend my time. I feel that the 
weekly IRC meetings in their current form do not foster more development 
or get stuff done on the maintenance side of things but keep rather 
reiterating on the things we feel we should do.

As they keep adding more maintenance burden on me (preparation and 
post-mortem) without having much effect (it seemed there was some steam 
initially but that dropped substantially) I'll seek ways to contribute 
my time more efficiently.

I had a very enjoyable face to face meeting with Hanno Schlichting and 
Veit Schiele (of DZUG fame) today in which we figured that we'd like to 
support creative action within the ZTK next year. We'd like to do so by 
organizing a sprint each quarter over here in Germany. We're sketching 
out details on how we want organization to work out over the next weeks 
so that we find the topics that are interesting to people.

Our current goal is to get together during March for 3 days, probably in 
Berlin.

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Stopping weekly meetings, moving towards sprints

2010-12-21 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

On 12/21/2010 10:05 PM, Chris McDonough wrote:
 Thanks for giving it a shot Christian!  I always read the meeting notes,
 if I didn't participate.

Thanks, good to know that. :)

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[Zope-dev] Weekly meeting

2010-12-20 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

I'm back from vacation (for a few days until the holidays kick in). :)

I'm still getting back on track and I'll be online tomorrow but won't be 
able to prepare much.

Whatever you want to talk about I'll be happy to discuss.

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Draft of new aggregator

2010-12-01 Thread Christian Theune
On 12/01/2010 03:17 PM, Benji York wrote:
 On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 3:04 AM, Jens Vagelpohlj...@dataflake.org  wrote:
 If I understood Christian right he wants to keep the full list of
 entries sorted so everyone knows where to find their items of interest
 quickly. I think that's valuable, the full list should stay as it is.

 +1  Perhaps even a blank line between groups would help accentuate the
 groupings.

I thought about that, too. However, there's no homogeneous syntax 
currently in place that defines the groups.


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[Zope-dev] Bug day and IRC meeting

2010-11-30 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

today is bug day and I've been hacking away on the nightly test result 
aggregator script a bit to make the output more readable for the large 
number of results we get every night.

Also, I'll be around for the 3pm UTC IRC meeting today.

Christian

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[Zope-dev] Draft of new aggregator

2010-11-30 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

here's a shot at a new format of the aggregated mails.

My focus on this draft was:

- allow dealing with *lots* of results every day more easily
- allow having a graphical overview of how broken something is
   (group builders by prefix)
- have a stable sorting so you can quickly pin-point whether something
   that you're interested in is broken
- reduce the noise


The draft here has line-breaks in the URLs which it didn't produce when 
viewing it in my mailer in the first place.

Thoughts?

 Original Message 
Subject: Zope TestsNo messages
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 14:34:20 +0100 (CET)
From: Zope tests summarizer ct+zopete...@gocept.com
To: c...@gocept.com

Summary of messages to the zope-tests list.
Period Mon Nov 29 13:34:00 2010 UTC to Tue Nov 30 13:34:00 2010 UTC.
There were 79 messages: 6 from Zope Tests, 4 from buildbot at pov.lt, 19 
from buildbot at winbot.zope.org, 9 from ccomb at free.fr, 41 from 
jdriessen at thehealthagency.com.


[1]OK  Bluebream / Python2.4.6 64bit linux
[2]OK  Bluebream / Python2.5.5 64bit linux
[3]OK  Bluebream / Python2.6.5 64bit linux
[4]OK  ZTK 1.0 / Python2.4.6 Linux 64bit
[5]OK  ZTK 1.0 / Python2.5.5 Linux 64bit
[6]OK  ZTK 1.0 / Python2.6.5 Linux 64bit
[7]OK  ZTK 1.0dev / Python2.4.6 Linux 64bit
[8]OK  ZTK 1.0dev / Python2.5.5 Linux 64bit
[9]OK  ZTK 1.0dev / Python2.6.5 Linux 64bit
[10]   OK  Zope 3.4 Known Good Set / py2.4-32bit-linux
[11]   OK  Zope 3.4 Known Good Set / py2.4-64bit-linux
[12]   OK  Zope 3.4 Known Good Set / py2.5-32bit-linux
[13]   OK  Zope 3.4 Known Good Set / py2.5-64bit-linux
[14]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zope2.12-py2.6 slave-osx
[15]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zope2.12-py2.6 slave-ubuntu32
[16]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zope2.12-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
[17]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zope2.13-py2.6 slave-osx
[18]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zope2.13-py2.6 slave-ubuntu32
[19]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zope2.13-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
[20]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zope2.13-py2.7 slave-osx
[21]   FAILED  Zope Buildbot / zope2.13-py2.7 slave-ubuntu32
[22]   FAILED  Zope Buildbot / zope2.13-py2.7 slave-ubuntu64
[23]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zope2.13_win-py2.6 slave-win
[24]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zope2.13_win-py2.7 slave-win
[25]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zope2.14-py2.6 slave-osx
[26]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zope2.14-py2.6 slave-ubuntu32
[27]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zope2.14-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
[28]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zope2.14-py2.7 slave-osx
[29]   FAILED  Zope Buildbot / zope2.14-py2.7 slave-ubuntu32
[30]   FAILED  Zope Buildbot / zope2.14-py2.7 slave-ubuntu64
[31]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.4 slave-osx
[32]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.4 slave-ubuntu32
[33]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.4 slave-ubuntu64
[34]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.5 slave-osx
[35]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.5 slave-ubuntu32
[36]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.5 slave-ubuntu64
[37]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.6 slave-osx
[38]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.6 slave-ubuntu32
[39]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
[40]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0_win-py2.4 slave-win
[41]   FAILED  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0_win-py2.5 slave-win
[42]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0_win-py2.6 slave-win
[43]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-py2.5 slave-osx
[44]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-py2.5 slave-ubuntu32
[45]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-py2.5 slave-ubuntu64
[46]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-py2.6 slave-osx
[47]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-py2.6 slave-ubuntu32
[48]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
[49]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-py2.7 slave-osx
[50]   FAILED  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-py2.7 slave-ubuntu32
[51]   FAILED  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-py2.7 slave-ubuntu64
[52]   FAILED  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit_win-py2.5 slave-win
[53]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit_win-py2.6 slave-win
[54]   OK  Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit_win-py2.7 slave-win
[55]   OK  Zope-2.10 Python-2.4.6 : Linux
[56]   OK  Zope-2.11 Python-2.4.6 : Linux
[57]   OK  Zope-2.12 Python-2.6.5 : Linux
[58]   OK  Zope-2.12-alltests Python-2.6.5 : Linux
[59]   OK  Zope-trunk Python-2.6.5 : Linux
[60]   OK  Zope-trunk-alltests Python-2.6.5 : Linux
[61]   OK  winbot / ZODB_dev py_254_win32
[62]   OK  winbot / ZODB_dev py_265_win32
[63]   OK  winbot / ZODB_dev py_265_win64
[64]   OK  winbot / ZODB_dev py_270_win32
[65]   OK  winbot / ZODB_dev py_270_win64
[66]   OK  winbot / zc_buildout_dev py_254_win32
[67]   OK  winbot / zc_buildout_dev py_265_win32
[68]   OK  winbot / zc_buildout_dev py_265_win64
[69]   OK  winbot / zc_buildout_dev py_270_win32
[70]   OK  winbot / 

Re: [Zope-dev] Bug day and IRC meeting

2010-11-30 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

On 11/30/2010 02:43 PM, Christian Theune wrote:
 Hi,

 today is bug day and I've been hacking away on the nightly test result
 aggregator script a bit to make the output more readable for the large
 number of results we get every night.

 Also, I'll be around for the 3pm UTC IRC meeting today.

To wrap this up: I've spend a bit of  time today revamping the 
aggregator script (there's drafts floating around now) and we discussed 
this during the IRC meeting. I guess we almost have this ready as a 
replacement now.

I've been lagging in the last weeks with summarizing what happened 
during the meetings, so fortunately this week wasn't so bad. ;)

However, I'm looking forward to a two-week holiday, so I won't be 
present at the meetings next week and the week after. I'll be back at 
the meeting on 2010-12-21, though.

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Draft of new aggregator

2010-11-30 Thread Christian Theune
On 11/30/2010 06:04 PM, Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On 11/30/10 16:06 , Christian Theune wrote:
 Hi,

 here's a shot at a new format of the aggregated mails.

 My focus on this draft was:

 - allow dealing with *lots* of results every day more easily
 - allow having a graphical overview of how broken something is
 (group builders by prefix)
 - have a stable sorting so you can quickly pin-point whether something
 that you're interested in is broken
 - reduce the noise

 Looks good to me, much better than what we have now. I'm guessing the
 URLs will be fixed to point to http://mail.zope.org... instead of
 file:///tmp/mail.zope.org..., right?

Yeah. I just mirrored the data to my local machine to get faster results 
...

Here's the draft we ended up with yesterday:

 jens

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin)

 iEYEARECAAYFAkz1LqsACgkQRAx5nvEhZLKtsACgjwcVfPvgDqr9UNAwFsnQhkls
 RdMAn2PEw7gtWKcOdIuS+kQi712CSmwh
 =zxEc
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: [Zope-dev] Draft of new aggregator

2010-11-30 Thread Christian Theune
On 11/30/2010 06:04 PM, Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On 11/30/10 16:06 , Christian Theune wrote:
 Hi,

 here's a shot at a new format of the aggregated mails.

 My focus on this draft was:

 - allow dealing with *lots* of results every day more easily
 - allow having a graphical overview of how broken something is
 (group builders by prefix)
 - have a stable sorting so you can quickly pin-point whether something
 that you're interested in is broken
 - reduce the noise

 Looks good to me, much better than what we have now. I'm guessing the
 URLs will be fixed to point to http://mail.zope.org... instead of
 file:///tmp/mail.zope.org..., right?

Yeah. I just mirrored the data to my local machine to get faster results 
...

Here's the draft we ended up with yesterday:
http://dpaste.com/281566/

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[Zope-dev] Bug day: Tuesday 2010-11-30

2010-11-22 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

the Doodle has spoken: our next bug day will be on 2010-11-30 as 3 out 
of 4 people have time there.

So again to everybody: I'd like to invite you to join us fixing bugs in 
the general area of Zope (2, ZTK, grok, whatever). If you can spare some 
time, please join us.

We'll hang out on #z...@freenode.

Christian

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[Zope-dev] Doodle for bug day

2010-11-16 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

another bug day would be nice and here's the doodle:
http://www.doodle.com/huvz2swwpaebab4u

Pick the day(s) you'd prefer to participate in the bug day and remember: 
you don't have to spend the whole day - bug day is about advancing 
together not achieving world peace in a day. :)

Christian

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[Zope-dev] Developer IRC meeting on Tuesday 15:00 UTC

2010-11-12 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

this week didn't see a meeting, AFAICT from the logs. So I'm picking up 
where we left a while ago and would suggest we check for:

- input from people who attended the Plone conference
- input from people who attended the grok sprint
- An update on the repository policy? There's a nagging script supposed
   to appear ... ;)
- summit goals

We'll probably not be able to touch all of that, so I suppose we pick 
the issues depending on who participates.

See you next week at 15:00 UTC (watch your local winter time 
adjustments!) on #z...@freenode.

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] logrotation/logreopening in ZTK-based applications

2010-11-11 Thread Christian Theune
On 11/12/2010 06:22 AM, Fred Drake wrote:
 On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 8:23 AM, I said:
 There's a package called zc.signalhandler in the Zope Corporation
 repository that I'll be open-sourcing.

 This is now available on svn.zope.org.  The tests pass with Python
 2.4, 2.5, 2.6, and 2.7.

 I've added a brief README.txt to show how it's used; there's a more
 extensive doctest inside the package.

Cool, thanks!


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Re: [Zope-dev] logrotation/logreopening in ZTK-based applications

2010-11-10 Thread Christian Theune
On 11/10/2010 02:23 PM, Fred Drake wrote:
 On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 2:47 AM, Christian Theunec...@gocept.com  wrote:
 We have a ZTK-based app and found that the server provides neither
 signal handling to rotate logs nor a zopectl command. Does anybody
 remember wether this was ever built?

 Christian,

 If you want size- or time-based rotation, that can be configured
 directly using ZConfig.

 There's a package called zc.signalhandler in the Zope Corporation
 repository that I'll be open-sourcing.  It'll let you include
 something like this in your zope.conf:

  signalhandlers myapp
usr2  ZConfig.components.logger.loghandler.reopenFiles
  /signalhandlers

 That will let you re-open ZConfig-configured log files based on a
 signal.  (The myapp is a turdly bit caused by using the same schema
 bits asproduct-info  sections in the zope.conf schema.)

That's what I'm looking for - would be great if you found the time to 
release it.

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] logrotation/logreopening in ZTK-based applications

2010-11-10 Thread Christian Theune
On 11/10/2010 03:21 PM, Adam GROSZER wrote:
 Hello Christian,

 Wednesday, November 10, 2010, 8:47:43 AM, you wrote:

 CT  Hi,

 CT  Zope 2 provides a command to ask it to re-open its log files thus
 CT  supporting outside logrotation.

 CT  We have a ZTK-based app and found that the server provides neither
 CT  signal handling to rotate logs nor a zopectl command. Does anybody
 CT  remember wether this was ever built?

 CT  I see an old discussion on the Python list
 CT  (http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2006-January/059566.html)
 CT  but no conclusion.

 CT  If this isn't in yet, does anybody know what the right place would be?
 CT  (I guess the packages providing the main loops and configuring the
 CT  process would be the right ones.)

 I think ZTK should have a configurable log rotation built-in.
 Like:
logfile
  path log.log
  formatter zope.exceptions.log.Formatter
  max-size 50MB
  old-files 5
/logfile

I'd like to keep this out of the server: rotation is a system 
administration task where I'd like to rely on the policies and tools 
provided by the system environment.

Christian

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[Zope-dev] logrotation/logreopening in ZTK-based applications

2010-11-09 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

Zope 2 provides a command to ask it to re-open its log files thus 
supporting outside logrotation.

We have a ZTK-based app and found that the server provides neither 
signal handling to rotate logs nor a zopectl command. Does anybody 
remember wether this was ever built?

I see an old discussion on the Python list 
(http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2006-January/059566.html) 
but no conclusion.

If this isn't in yet, does anybody know what the right place would be? 
(I guess the packages providing the main loops and configuring the 
process would be the right ones.)

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Developer meeting next Tuesday at 15:00 UTC

2010-11-04 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

On 10/29/2010 03:26 PM, Christian Theune wrote:
 Hi,

 for next week's meeting (#zope on freenode, as always) I propose to hear
 from the PloneConf, check with the summit goals, and follow up on the
 bicycle toolkit again (Charlie, you coming?)

Hmm. It's either been DST confusion or Plone Conference exhaustion, but 
Marius and me were the only ones but didn't discuss anything.

I won't be there next week unfortunately, as I'll be travelling for a 
customer. (I *might* be there but with only a very slight chance.)

Charlie? Can you take over?

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] zope.18n:translate() keyword arguments versus MessageID attributes

2010-10-29 Thread Christian Theune
On 10/29/2010 08:26 AM, Michael Howitz wrote:
 Am 27.10.2010 um 08:52 schrieb Christian Theune:
 On 10/27/2010 08:44 AM, Michael Howitz wrote:
 [...]
 +1 But the `mapping` attribute should update the existing mapping of the 
 message ID as this would allow to have a partial mapping stored on the 
 message ID and add the other part when translating.

 Does this use case really appear that often?

 I think of it as low hanging fruit.

You're probably right.

 I see that there isn't much danger to doing that as the mappings
 shouldn't be too large anyway and the code that processes them doesn't
 allow for control structures based on their values so having superfluous
 values wouldn't hurt and this behaviour would keep old code working.

 OTOH can you make a feature request for this so I can deal with it
 separately?

 https://bugs.launchpad.net/zope.i18n/+bug/668189 (Did not find out how to 
 make a feature request, so filed it as bug.)

Make a bug and mark it wishlist. I've done that for your.

Christian

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[Zope-dev] Sprints in 2011

2010-10-29 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

I volunteered to take care of overall sprint organization for next year. 
My current plan is to have around 3 topic-focused sprints in addition to 
being present at PyCon and EuroPython for more general (conference) 
sprinting.

I've started a wiki page here:
http://wiki.zope.org/ztk/ZopeSprints2011

If you're interested in anything related to Zope software that you'd 
like to work together with other people during the next year, then 
please talk to me, tell me what the topic is and when and where you'd 
prefer a sprint.

Christian

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[Zope-dev] Developer meeting next Tuesday at 15:00 UTC

2010-10-29 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

for next week's meeting (#zope on freenode, as always) I propose to hear 
from the PloneConf, check with the summit goals, and follow up on the 
bicycle toolkit again (Charlie, you coming?)

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] zope.18n:translate() keyword arguments versus MessageID attributes

2010-10-27 Thread Christian Theune
On 10/27/2010 08:44 AM, Michael Howitz wrote:
 Am 26.10.2010 um 16:13 schrieb Tres Seaver:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On 10/26/2010 09:36 AM, Christian Theune wrote:
 Hi,

 I've fiddled a bit with
 https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/zope.i18n/+bug/592753 and ended up with
 an unclear situation:

 The ``translate'' methods of both zope.i18n and ITranslationDomain have
 optional parameters for the domain/default/mapping attributes of a
 message ID.

 The message ID attributes always override the parameters but it is not
 said why. (I probed the tests and they at least verify that this is the
 case but don't state motivation.)

 As I had to chase this down for quite a while when I originally tried to
 call zope.i18n.translate() directly (for providing translated emails) it
 took me quite a while to understand what's going on.

 I see two possibilities for improving the situation:

 - don't implicitly ignore the parameters, but raise an exception if
both a message id and at least one of the parameters (domain/default
/mapping) is given and write some documentation that explains the
situation (what is happening and why)

 or

 - make the parameters take precedence over the message id attributes

 So - why not do the latter?

 I prefer the latter, and don't think we need a deprecation cycle for it:
 if the call site is passing in a mapping, that is presumably more
 specific than anything stored in the catalog.  I can't see how we would
 break anything here, as nobody is likely to have actually used the
 feature (since it is effectively a no-op).

 +1 But the `mapping` attribute should update the existing mapping of the 
 message ID as this would allow to have a partial mapping stored on the 
 message ID and add the other part when translating.

Does this use case really appear that often?

I see that there isn't much danger to doing that as the mappings 
shouldn't be too large anyway and the code that processes them doesn't 
allow for control structures based on their values so having superfluous 
values wouldn't hurt and this behaviour would keep old code working.

OTOH can you make a feature request for this so I can deal with it 
separately?

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Bug day and developer meeting today at 15:00 UTC

2010-10-27 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

On 10/26/2010 09:14 AM, Christian Theune wrote:
 Hi,

 Today is a bug day and the weekly developer meeting.

 I haven't managed to write up the log from last week, but basically Jim,
 me, and some others talked about about the need for being able to
 communicate/document architecture/design decisions well - we didn't find
 the grand solution, though. ;)

 Today, we'll meet, as always, in #z...@freenode at 15:00 UTC.

This week my job of summarizing is suprisingly easy: nothing to 
summarize as I was the only attendee of the meeting.

So, just in case: if you're not happy with the topics I propose, please 
feel free to suggest others or just walk in. I'm happy to provide the 
regular space (and time) and am open to any issues regarding zope-dev.

Christian

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[Zope-dev] Bug day and developer meeting today at 15:00 UTC

2010-10-26 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

Today is a bug day and the weekly developer meeting.

I haven't managed to write up the log from last week, but basically Jim, 
me, and some others talked about about the need for being able to 
communicate/document architecture/design decisions well - we didn't find 
the grand solution, though. ;)

Today, we'll meet, as always, in #z...@freenode at 15:00 UTC.

Topics will be:

- Follow-up on summit goals
- The bicycle toolkit

Christian

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[Zope-dev] zope.18n:translate() keyword arguments versus MessageID attributes

2010-10-26 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

I've fiddled a bit with 
https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/zope.i18n/+bug/592753 and ended up with 
an unclear situation:

The ``translate'' methods of both zope.i18n and ITranslationDomain have 
optional parameters for the domain/default/mapping attributes of a 
message ID.

The message ID attributes always override the parameters but it is not 
said why. (I probed the tests and they at least verify that this is the 
case but don't state motivation.)

As I had to chase this down for quite a while when I originally tried to 
call zope.i18n.translate() directly (for providing translated emails) it 
took me quite a while to understand what's going on.

I see two possibilities for improving the situation:

- don't implicitly ignore the parameters, but raise an exception if
   both a message id and at least one of the parameters (domain/default
   /mapping) is given and write some documentation that explains the
   situation (what is happening and why)

or

- make the parameters take precendence over the message id attributes

So - why not do the latter?

Christian

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[Zope-dev] My bug day wrap-up

2010-10-26 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

here's a quick wrap-up of what I did to zope.i18n today:

- I merged the duplicate bugs asking for ngettext support.

- I started working on Sphinx documentation by taking Tres' example
   from zope.event, playing with it, and start pulling in some API
   documentation. It's really nowhere useful yet, but hey, it's a start.

- I merged a (long missing) NAME_RE change from zope.tal.taldefs to
   zope.i18n. I'm feeling somewhat uncomfortable with having to just
   blindly copy it over: neither packages test for the change and I was
   unable to locate where it came from as it seemed to have happened
   during the large rename/restructure back in 2003.

So, what's up for everyone else who joined the bug day?

Christian

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[Zope-dev] Bug day next tuesday, 2010-10-26

2010-10-19 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

another bug day! I've picked next Tuesday based on the input from the 
Doodle (Charlie and me) and the IRC (Tres).

So, if you'd like something to get improved: please join us.

Remember: you don't have to join the whole day - fixing a bug is always 
helpful and you'll be more likely to be able to contribute something if 
you don't try to fit the whole day into your probably busy schedule.

We'll hang out, as always, on IRC at #z...@freenode.

Christian

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[Zope-dev] My plans for bug day: zope.i18n

2010-10-19 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

I looked around for tasks to handle during the next bug day and I think 
I'll pick up some zope.i18n bugs.

Here's what I found:

#592753 - The module level translate function kills the mapping that is 
passed in if the message is a message object. I'm not sure what the 
exact expectation is: either replace or update the mapping that's on the 
message object already. If anyone has an idea, I'd like to hear it. 
Otherwise I'll dig around the code a bit

#161985 seems to be a duplicate of #567482. Is it?

#615821 the package's documentation needs to be turned Sphinx style. I 
think I'd like to help with that. I think Tres' did provide a summary of 
what to do somewhere. Does someone know from the top of his head?

#611746 where a regular expression seems to not match exactly what it 
should. I think I'll look into that if I have time left on the bug day. 
Does anyone have an opinion on this?

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Developer meeting TODAY at 15:00 UTC

2010-10-15 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

so, here's this week's summary:

We talked a bit about the summary goals. I will (have to) do some 
nagging to get everyone who signed up to fill in his details and 
timeframe. If anyone feels nagged already, you can go straight here:
http://wiki.zope.org/ztk/ZopeSummit2010Summary

Some of us already put in our time frames and some more detailed 
explanations.

Also, we talked about the bug days. This time we seem to have quite low 
interest, maybe the week is bad or so...

However, we'd like to point out (or remind) that you don't have to 
schedule your whole day for participating with a bug day: spending an 
hour or so to fix some bug makes a much larger difference than not being 
able to join for a whole day. ;)

In addition to that, we'd like to encourage everyone to pick some bugs 
they'd like to work on *before* the bug day. Especially if you pick bugs 
that need some discussion/explanation it will help you actually achieve 
something on the bug day if you understand what's going on and what 
needs to be done - that's going to be much more satisfying.

Christian

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[Zope-dev] Developer meeting next Tuesday at 15:00 UTC

2010-10-15 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

here's the reminder and agenda for next week's meeting:

We'll meet, as always, in #z...@freenode at 15:00 UTC.

Topics will be:

- Follow-up on summit goals
- Planning the next bug day
- The bicycle toolkit

I hope you enjoy your weekend and see you next week,
Christian
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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Toolkit 1.0 release

2010-10-14 Thread Christian Theune
On 10/13/2010 08:03 PM, Tres Seaver wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On 10/13/2010 11:59 AM, Jan-Wijbrand Kolman wrote:
 Hello.

 On behalf of the Zope Toolkit release team and the Zope community, I'm
 happy to announce the release of Zope Toolkit version 1.0!

 You can read more about the release at
 http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/releases/overview-1.0.html. The
 first ZTK release supports all of Python 2.4, 2.5 and 2.6.

 To use the ZTK release, you can use:

 [buildout]
 extends =
  http://download.zope.org/zopetoolkit/index/1.0/ztk-versions.cfg
  http://download.zope.org/zopetoolkit/index/1.0/zopeapp-versions.cfg

 This release focuses on cleaning up the ztk and zopeapp package lists
 by deprecating packages that are not used by any of the frameworks
 that use the ZTK. It should provide a stable set of libraries that are
 known to work well together and for the frameworks to expand on.

 We post our meeting notes at
 http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/releaseteam/index.html. Feel free to
 start discussing with us on this mailing list.

 Yay!  Congratulations and thanks for all the hard work the team has put
 into getting this release out the door.

Indeed. I'm happy to see this happen. :)


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Re: [Zope-dev] Developer meeting TODAY at 15:00 UTC

2010-10-12 Thread Christian Theune
Gah. Editing old posts ... :)


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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Tests: 42 OK, 8 Failed

2010-10-07 Thread Christian Theune
On 10/07/2010 03:01 PM, Marius Gedminas wrote:
 On Thu, Oct 07, 2010 at 08:52:41AM +0200, Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
 On 10/6/10 18:33 , Tres Seaver wrote:
 +1 for dropping the test:  if we aren't going to try to fix it to pass,
 then scrap it.  Note that I actually feel the same way about *all* the
 every-day failures:  the value of the every-day mail drops sharply when
 there are any expected failures.

 For me personally the value has dropped so far that I am mostly ignoring
 those emails.

 I used to ignore them, now I pay attention.

 They are hard to parse to begin with and there are just
 too many buildbot entries.

 What do you think about the overview table at
 http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/process/buildbots.html#the-nightly-builds
 ?

 I wonder if it would make sense to send
 separate emails per software package (such as ZTK, Zope2, etc) so that
 people can pick and choose.

 -1 for separate emails.  One per day is plenty enough.

 +1 for better organization within the email.

 Currently the build results are grouped by status, and then ordered by
 time.  I'd prefer if they were grouped by status, and then grouped by OS
 (or by project; don't care much) inside the larger per-status groups.

I think that ordering by name, only showing the bad status is a better 
idea for the *summary*.

Having a stable sorting makes it easier to look for your entry. 
Dropping the OKs will make noise go away.

I also suggest a single URL in the mail to go to a more detailed page in 
case you care for something specific to avoid the noise of visible text 
urls sprinkled all over the place.

Like this:

/= SNIP

Subject: Zope Tests: 42 OK, 8 Failed


zc_buildout_dev py_244_win32 / winbot.zope.org - FAILED
zope2.12 slave-osx / thehealthagency.com - FAILED
zope2.12 slave-ubuntu64 / thehealthagency.com - UNKONWN
ztk_dev py_254_win32 / winbot.zope.org - FAILED
ztk_dev py_265_win32 / winbot.zope.org - FAILED
ztk_dev py_265_win64 / winbot.zope.org - FAILED
ztk_dev py_270_win32 / winbot.zope.org - FAILED
ztk_dev py_270_win64 / winbot.zope.org - UNKNOWN

Status details can be found here:
http://example.com/zopetests/2010-01-12-00:30:15.html

\= SNAP


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Re: [Zope-dev] Developer meeting next Tuesday at 15:00 UTC

2010-10-05 Thread Christian Theune
On 10/05/2010 01:51 PM, Charlie Clark wrote:
 Am 05.10.2010, 07:44 Uhr, schrieb Christian Theunec...@gocept.com:

 Me bad. My scheduling isn't good enough it seems. I need to be on the
 road at 3pm UTC today and won't be there. :/
 Charlie?

 Shit. I have a doctor's appointment at 13:00 UTC. I hope I am back in time
 but if not can I ask Adam to step in?

Sure thing.


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Re: [Zope-dev] Developer meeting next Tuesday at 15:00 UTC

2010-10-04 Thread Christian Theune
Sigh,

On 10/01/2010 03:50 PM, Christian Theune wrote:
 Good afternoon,

 another developer meeting is coming up next Tuesday at 15:00 UTC.

Me bad. My scheduling isn't good enough it seems. I need to be on the 
road at 3pm UTC today and won't be there. :/

Charlie?

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[Zope-dev] Developer meeting next Tuesday at 15:00 UTC

2010-10-01 Thread Christian Theune
Good afternoon,

another developer meeting is coming up next Tuesday at 15:00 UTC.

As the discussion about the goals that were established during the last 
meeting didn't get a conclusion last time, I'll pick it up again.

I'd also like to review the bug day as it seems there was only little 
participation. Maybe we need to do something different about the scheduling?

Finally, the repository policy came up in a recent ZF board meeting, so 
we should check what's going on there.

And if you have any other topic you'd like to discuss: speak up!

See you next Tuesday!

Christian
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Re: [Zope-dev] Developer meeting next Tuesday at 15:00 UTC

2010-09-30 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

On 09/28/2010 04:48 PM, Charlie Clark wrote:
 Am 28.09.2010, 16:42 Uhr, schrieb Christian Theunec...@gocept.com:

 I won't be there today as I have to fix some stuff around my flat, but
 I'll go through the logs tomorrow.

 I guess this means a job for Theuni's stand-in! See you all in a few
 minutes. :-D

I just updated the minutes and the summary should be visible soonish 
(http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/zope-dev/zope-dev-20100928.html)

As I saw you went through the summary and the list of goals.

I partially put in only the headlines as I missed to take enough notes 
during the meeting. I then opted for releasing the summary quickly 
instead of lagging to gather all the missing information right away.

I would appreciate if the task owners filled in the deadlines and a 
little more detail themselves. (I might at some point go through the 
list and ask people directly if they seem AWOL).

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Developer meeting next Tuesday at 15:00 UTC

2010-09-28 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

On 09/24/2010 07:56 PM, Christian Theune wrote:
 Good evening,

 another developer meeting is coming up next Tuesday at 15:00 UTC.

 During the meta-discussion this week Charlie mentioned that we really
 need to keep following up on the issues/goals/topics that were
 identified during the summit.

 So, before returning to pure maintenance topics and as the summary [1]
 is online now, I'll open up the next agenda to deal with the outcome of
 the summit.

I won't be there today as I have to fix some stuff around my flat, but 
I'll go through the logs tomorrow.

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Good news: ZODB will work with Python 2.7 (was Re: Heads up: ZODB probably won't work with Python 2.7)

2010-09-24 Thread Christian Theune
On 09/24/2010 05:16 PM, Jim Fulton wrote:
 Thanks to Tim Peters for helping me figure out the fix.

Cheers for Tim! :)


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[Zope-dev] Summary from the summit

2010-09-24 Thread Christian Theune
Hi there,

thanks again for everyone who joined the summit, I was happy to see so 
many of you come.

The summit definitely had its ups and downs and the discussions 
continued even after when some of you joined us at the DZUG conference 
and even the sprints on the weekend after.

I have compiled a summary from the index cards and notes and put it next 
to the organisational Wiki page:
http://wiki.zope.org/ztk/ZopeSummit2010Summary

Some of the ideas that were presented and some of the discussions that 
were started aren't concluded yet so use the summary as a reminder of 
what topics you'd like to continue talking about and then do so. :)

Also, we have volunteers for individual goals. If you volunteered for 
something, please check back with the goal and help me write down the 
more specific agreements that were promised.

Although we didn't come to a single grandiose conclusion, I'd like to 
point out that I personally (by continued discussion over the week) 
found ideas that I'd like to pursue in the future within the Zope 
community and thus have drawn energy from talking to you - I hope that 
you had at least a little bit of the same.

Hope to see you all again soon,
Christian


PS: I don't want to be secretive about my ideas, but then again, I don't 
know how far I can develop the idea. It's basically about taking the 
ideas of the component architecture, decouple stuff from the web, 
separate the concerns more cleanly etc. In some discussions we dived 
down into more of the patterns and DDD community and I'm hoping to 
explore some of their good ideas (not the architecture astronaut ones) 
but that's a separate story from this post ...

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[Zope-dev] Developer meeting next Tuesday at 15:00 UTC

2010-09-24 Thread Christian Theune
Good evening,

another developer meeting is coming up next Tuesday at 15:00 UTC.

During the meta-discussion this week Charlie mentioned that we really 
need to keep following up on the issues/goals/topics that were 
identified during the summit.

So, before returning to pure maintenance topics and as the summary [1] 
is online now, I'll open up the next agenda to deal with the outcome of 
the summit.

Hope to see you next week,
Christian

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[Zope-dev] Developer meeting today at 15:00 UTC

2010-09-20 Thread Christian Theune
Good morning,

another developer meeting is coming up today at 15:00 UTC.

I'd like to talk about your post-summit thoughts (I still need to 
prepare the summary for those who haven't been there, though).

Also, the next bug day wants to be organized and I'd like to revisit the 
meta issues around the meeting itself.

See you later,
Christian

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[Zope-dev] No weekly meeting today, summary of summit

2010-09-14 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

there's not weekly meeting today where Charlie or I will attend as most 
of us are at the (closing) summit and move to the DZUG conference 
afterwards.

I'll post a summary of the summit in the near future. :)

Christian


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Re: [Zope-dev] September bugday

2010-08-31 Thread Christian Theune
Hi there,

On 08/24/2010 05:34 PM, Christian Theune wrote:
 Hi,

 and here's the Doodle for the next bug day.

 I've moved it further away than 4 weeks as many people seem to join us
 at the summit and the conference and we figured we don't want this to
 overlap and give people a quiet week afterwards.

 http://doodle.com/ntqpvpcaxdwus352

 Hope to see you there!

I'd like to close the poll soonish (read: tonight), so if you haven't 
added your name and intend to participate, please add your preferred 
dates for the bug day!

Christian

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[Zope-dev] Developer meeting today at 15:00 UTC

2010-08-31 Thread Christian Theune
Hi again,

our weekly meeting is coming up today at 15:00 UTC.

I'd like to catch up with topics that have been in limbo for a while:

- Supporting Python 2.7
- Abandoned projects
- Windows compiler licenses

Does anybody else have other topics?

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] zope.app.appsetup and RootErrorReportingUtility

2010-08-31 Thread Christian Theune
On 08/30/2010 03:01 PM, Adam GROSZER wrote:
 Hello,

 zope.app.appsetup installs the following RootErrorReportingUtility:

  ensureUtility(root_folder, IErrorReportingUtility, '',
RootErrorReportingUtility, copy_to_zlog=False)

 My problem with this is that copy_to_zlog=False, that means if your
 app is *really* hosed you don't get the error logged to the usual
 error.log or event.log and are also *unable* to access the UI of the
 utility.

 Anyone objects a change to copy_to_zlog=True as default?

+1

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Re: [Zope-dev] Developer meeting today at 15:00 UTC

2010-08-31 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

On 08/31/2010 10:32 AM, Hanno Schlichting wrote:
 Hi.

 On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Christian Theunec...@gocept.com  wrote:
 our weekly meeting is coming up today at 15:00 UTC.

 I won't make it to todays meeting, so some notes upfront.

Thanks for noting. That reminds me that I can't be there either, but 
I'll ask Charlie whether he can take over.

Christian

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[Zope-dev] Developer meeting today at 15:00 UTC

2010-08-24 Thread Christian Theune
Hi again,

our weekly meeting is coming up today at 15:00 UTC.

I had a request that we talk about the buildbot organization and I'd 
also like to review the bug day.

Does anybody else have other topics?

Christian

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[Zope-dev] Bug day reports

2010-08-24 Thread Christian Theune
Hi everyone,

last week was a bug day and I'd like to repeat the exercise from last 
time: it would be nice if everyone who was involved in some way to speak 
up and say what they worked on.

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Developer meeting today at 15:00 UTC

2010-08-18 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

looks like my announcement was too late already.

Hanno was there and we chatted a bit, one of the outcomes was his update 
mail which you already received.

See you on the bug day tomorrow, or next week at the weekly meeting!

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Developer meeting today at 15:00 UTC

2010-08-18 Thread Christian Theune
On 08/18/2010 09:36 AM, Hanno Schlichting wrote:
 Hi.

 On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 8:36 AM, Christian Theunec...@gocept.com  wrote:
 Hanno was there and we chatted a bit, one of the outcomes was his update
 mail which you already received.

 Hhm, interesting. Are you or me hallucinating? I definitely wasn't at
 the zope-dev meeting. There was a ZTK release team meeting before,
 though. Maybe you talked to J-W or ccomb.

Hallucination. It was J-W. (Sorry, J-W!)

 See you on the bug day tomorrow, or next week at the weekly meeting!

 /me sadly won't make it. I have a customer visiting the rest of the week.

Ouh!

Christian

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[Zope-dev] Developer meeting today at 15:00 UTC

2010-08-17 Thread Christian Theune
Hi again,

late, but here it is:

We have an IRC meeting coming up in about an hour.

Topics, if nothing else comes up, will be

- upcoming bug day
- test noise reduction
- how to choose topics for the weekly meeting

Hope to see you later,
Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Developer meeting 2010-08-10 at 15:00 UTC

2010-08-11 Thread Christian Theune
Hi there,

On 08/10/2010 02:16 PM, Christian Theune wrote:
 Hi everyone,

 today's another meeting coming up.

and here's the notes from yesterday's meeting:

The DZUG conference will get some more announcements through the Python 
conference advertisement channels.

The summit preparation is currently making sure everyone's travel and 
accomodation works out. Topics will be prepared in the next days.

The daily test messages are noisy and we'll try to improve the 
aggregator to make them more readable. We need contact with Stefan Holek 
for this.

The wineggbuilder is online and now automatically building Python binary 
packages. There is documentation about it online here:
http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/process/winbotsetup.html (Adam will add 
a few introductory sentences for developers who want to leverage it, soon.)

On the documentation improvement front, Christian managed to create the 
blueprint and bugs for tracking the effort.

That's it from this week, the long, detailed version is here:
http://svn.zope.org/zopetoolkit/doc/source/zope-dev/zope-dev-20100810.rst?rev=115633view=auto

See you next week!

Christian


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Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: ETag support for zope.browserresource

2010-08-10 Thread Christian Theune
On 08/10/2010 12:37 AM, Sidnei da Silva wrote:
 On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Marius Gedminasmar...@gedmin.as  wrote:
 I've added ETag support for zope.browserresource in a branch:
 http://zope3.pov.lt/trac/changeset/115596

 Does anybody have any comments/objections?  If not, I'd like to merge
 this to trunk and release zope.browserresource 3.11.0.

 +1 as long as there's a way to disable or configure how it's computed.
 There's some information about issues with ETags here:

http://developer.yahoo.com/performance/rules.html#etags

 I see that your implementation uses last-modified + size, which should
 generally be fine. However if you're load-balancing across two
 different servers and the timestamps don't match then the ETag is
 useless.

 On a completely different note, I see that the File object reads the
 whole file into memory. Hum. Maybe RAM is cheaper than Disk these days
 and it doesn't matter, but reading whole files into memory generally
 raises a red flag for me.

IOPS aren't cheap nowadays. The IOPS/MB have had the issue that the MB 
kept increasing a lot in disks but the IOPS didn't catch up that much, 
so it may not even be a RAM issue but throughput/caching/IOPS.

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Re: [Zope-dev] zope.i18nmessageid 3.5.3 released (windows binaries needed)

2010-08-10 Thread Christian Theune
On 08/10/2010 07:19 AM, Chris McDonough wrote:
 I made a new release of zope.i18nmessageid (3.5.3) persuant to a
 conversation that took place on this list a few weeks ago related to
 switching back to overriding build_ext to allow the package to work on
 Jython and other CPython platforms.

 Would someone be kind enough to build and upload new Windows binaries?

Hmm. There should be dragons here that take care of that automatically 
if I understood the wineggbuilder correctly.


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[Zope-dev] Developer meeting 2010-08-10 at 15:00 UTC

2010-08-10 Thread Christian Theune
Hi everyone,

today's another meeting coming up.

Charlie asked for talking about the summit and the upcoming 
Zope/Python/Plone conference in Germany.

I'd like to get back to the documentation and also the automated 
builders (there's still too much noise going on IMHO).

Agenda (in a few minutes):
http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/zope-dev/zope-dev-20100810.html

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Developer meeting 2010-08-02 at 15:00 UTC

2010-08-05 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

there notes from this weeks meeting should appear in a few minutes:
http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/zope-dev/zope-dev-20100803.html

In short:

Documentation improvements are making progress with Jens leading on 
making stuff accessible on doc.zope.org. Getting the packages in shape 
needs support with some initial bookkeeping (blueprints/bugs) and 
probably some coordinated effort at a sprint.

Has everyone who was supposed to received their MSDN licenses by now?

Adam is done with the Windows egg builder but due to PyPI issues and a 
hickup in doc.zope.org we couldn't review it.

Christian

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[Zope-dev] Developer meeting 2010-08-02 at 15:00 UTC

2010-08-02 Thread Christian Theune
Hi everyone,

tomorrow's the weekly IRC meeting.

As Jens mentioned some progress on the documentation, I've pulled that 
issue back on the Agenda for tomorrow.

Also, as Adam started documenting the wineggbuilder I've pulled the 
testing/buildbot topic up.

Agenda (in a few minutes):
http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/zope-dev/zope-dev-20100803.html

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Developer meeting 2010-08-02 at 15:00 UTC

2010-08-02 Thread Christian Theune
On 08/02/2010 04:51 PM, Christian Theune wrote:
 Hi everyone,

 tomorrow's the weekly IRC meeting.

That's 2010-08-03 of course ...


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Re: [Zope-dev] unit test policy questions

2010-07-29 Thread Christian Theune
On 07/29/2010 02:17 PM, Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On 7/29/10 14:00 , Martin Aspeli wrote:
 On 29 July 2010 19:26, yuppiey.2...@wcm-solutions.de  wrote:
 1.) Is it still policy to add these lines?

 2.) Is there a better solution for using zope testrunner than the one
 shown above?

 I never do either. I install zc.recipe.testrunner in a buildout and
 use bin/test, which picks up tests in modules automatically.

 Same here. I have never in my life run tests by executing the module.
 The options provided by the testrunner to pare down what I want to test
 have always been sufficient for me.

 I have had a tendency to add these blurbs myself, thinking I guess it's
 useful for *someone*. But IMHO it's like those CVS/SVN $Id$ snippets,
 it's not really useful anymore.

Fullack.

Even better: the current test runner even lets you avoid the test_suite 
function in many cases.


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Re: [Zope-dev] Developer meeting 2010-07-27 at 15:00 UTC

2010-07-28 Thread Christian Theune
On 07/27/2010 08:50 PM, Charlie Clark wrote:
 Am 27.07.2010, 16:31 Uhr, schrieb Christian Theunec...@gocept.com:

 I'd like to see whether someone was at EuroPython and can report whether
 anything interesting for us, the Zope developers, happened.

 I was there but I couldn't join in today's meeting as I was still
 airborne. My BFG presentation seemed to go down pretty well and Zope/Plone
 seemed to be pretty well represented, better than the current framework du
 jour, Django. It was great to see Zopish stuff (ZCA and ZODB) presented
 outside the web world and Matt Hamilton did a sterling job promoting the
 Plone conference in Bristol in October.

 I did my best to plug the upcoming Python (and Zope) conference in Dresden
 in September but was a bit hampered at having to do this *without* any
 visual support, although my Macbook had no trouble with the main projector
 (seemed to crash lots of machines - my guess is that the VGA signal wasn't
 properly damped), as I was able to announce it between lightning talks.
 Only two slots for lightning talks but I really the one after lunch much
 better than sticking them at the end of day.

  [...]

Thanks for the report! Is there a list of talks online where we can get 
the links to the Zope-related ones, maybe even slides, from?

Christian

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[Zope-dev] EP reports

2010-07-28 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

Charlie already send a report from his EP visit.

If anybody else visited and found something relevant for the rest of us 
(talks? sprints? interesting discussion topics that popped up?) then I'd 
like to invite you to share your thoughts!

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Developer meeting 2010-07-27 at 15:00 UTC

2010-07-28 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

for the summary:

No EP participant was around, but (as you can see) we're asking for 
quick updates from participants via the mailing list.

The experiment for reviewing languishing bugs turned into a more general 
discussionabout responsiveness, process, expectations and others. No 
decisions were made but we can probably use some of it as an input for 
the summit. See the IRC log if you're interested in the full 20 minutes.

http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/zope-dev/zope-dev-20100727.html

Cheers,
Christian

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[Zope-dev] Developer meeting 2010-07-27 at 15:00 UTC

2010-07-27 Thread Christian Theune
Hi again,

late, but here it is:

We have an IRC meeting coming up in about 30 minutes.

I'd like to see whether someone was at EuroPython and can report whether 
anything interesting for us, the Zope developers, happened.

I'd also like to try again doing some languishing bug review together.
Just to make sure: I want us to take 10-15 minutes to review new bugs 
and either reject them or accept them as valid bugs signalling the 
reporters that we have seen them (and will deal with them eventually).

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Doodle for August bug day

2010-07-23 Thread Christian Theune
On 07/20/2010 05:13 PM, Christian Theune wrote:
 Hi everyone,

 here's the Doodle for our next bug day:
 http://www.doodle.com/6gydequztpac3xud

Wow!

9 people doodled and there's a day that seems acceptable to everyone:

Thursday, 2010-08-19

will be our next bug day.

I'm excited already about the number of people wanting to join!

See you then!
Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Developer meeting 2010-07-20 at 15:00 UTC

2010-07-23 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

and here's the summary from this week.

We had a quick review of the bug day, noticing that only two people 
actively joined it. We think it was due to scheduling issues and holiday 
season. (The next bug day already looks much more promising with 9 
people already signed up.)

Also, I tried to get everyone triaging some bugs but miscommunicated my 
goal so we ended up me triaging bugs while everybody else was waiting 
for me to talk about triaging them. In the meantime we discussed some 
smaller isseus. I'll try doing better next week about this, but I still 
think it might be a good idea to spend 15 minutes together triaging some 
bugs to get the languishing bug reports down.

The full report is here:
http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/zope-dev/zope-dev-20100720.html
(pending SVN update)

See you next week,
Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Help review #181754

2010-07-21 Thread Christian Theune
On 07/21/2010 09:17 AM, Wichert Akkerman wrote:
 On 2010-7-21 07:32, Wolfgang Schnerring wrote:
 * Wichert Akkermanwich...@wiggy.net   [2010-07-20 19:28]:
 On 2010-7-20 18:15, Christian Theune wrote:
 At least, WRT this bug, I don't think it's a good idea to ask explicitly
 for bad requests to go to the application as the test layer should model
 real server behaviour as closely as possible. And again it wouldn't make
 sense anyway as you can't pass an unparsable request to the application.

 I'm not sure I agree. Like everything else servers have bugs, so it
 can't hurt to test how your application would behave given certain
 server bugs.

 I don't think it is usually a productive assumption that lower layers
 fail to uphold their end of the contract. Maybe an
 extrapolation/hyperbole illustrates my opinion: Cosmic rays might also
 flip bits in your computer's RAM or disk, but I don't think it's
 worthwile to test how your application reacts when the python
 interpreter (or whoever, really) presents it with mangled data
 structures or objects or whatnot.

 And for some situations you do want to explicitly test for such things.
 It all depends on how critical your app is. I'm not sure I'm not the
 only one who has tested code with randomly broken/bit-flipped input to
 test robustness.

That double negative confuses the hell out of me. :)

However, I don't think the request of the given bug matches that 
requirement anyway.

Christian

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[Zope-dev] Doodle for August bug day

2010-07-20 Thread Christian Theune
Hi everyone,

here's the Doodle for our next bug day:
http://www.doodle.com/6gydequztpac3xud

I'd like to see many people there, so if you have any questions that 
need answering before you can join us on the bug day: ask them!

Christian

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[Zope-dev] Help review #181754

2010-07-20 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

I just rejected issue 
https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/zope.app.testing/+bug/181754

There might be room for different oppinions and if anyone would like to 
veto the decision, I'd welcome a discussion.

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Help review #181754

2010-07-20 Thread Christian Theune
On 07/20/2010 06:01 PM, Wichert Akkerman wrote:
 On 2010-7-20 17:39, Christian Theune wrote:
 Hi,

 I just rejected issue
 https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/zope.app.testing/+bug/181754

 There might be room for different oppinions and if anyone would like to
 veto the decision, I'd welcome a discussion.

 Your rejection contains an assumption that the request won't make it to
 the application. Is that assumption testable?

I guess so.

I think it's relatively clear that the application server should 
insulate the application from malignant requests.

The details probably depend on the HTTP implementation. zope.server, 
zope.app.twisted, Paster and others might deal with this differently. 
Looking at the interfaces between those parts of the application it 
makes no sense to have syntactially invalid requests end up on the 
application level.

At least, WRT this bug, I don't think it's a good idea to ask explicitly 
for bad requests to go to the application as the test layer should model 
real server behaviour as closely as possible. And again it wouldn't make 
sense anyway as you can't pass an unparsable request to the application.

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Help review #181754

2010-07-20 Thread Christian Theune
On 07/20/2010 07:28 PM, Wichert Akkerman wrote:
 On 2010-7-20 18:15, Christian Theune wrote:
 At least, WRT this bug, I don't think it's a good idea to ask explicitly
 for bad requests to go to the application as the test layer should model
 real server behaviour as closely as possible. And again it wouldn't make
 sense anyway as you can't pass an unparsable request to the application.

 I'm not sure I agree. Like everything else servers have bugs, so it
 can't hurt to test how your application would behave given certain
 server bugs.

Right. IMHO this specific bug asked for would usually mean that the 
server breaks and can pass anything to the application. Whatever 
happens: the server needs to prepare a data structure to hand over to 
the application. If it can't do that, then there's nothing to test what 
happens with the application.

I guess this kind of test (what happens with the application if it 
receives invalid data) needs to work around server/publisher components 
and inject data directly to application methods.

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] zope.testing / zope.testrunner path forward:

2010-07-20 Thread Christian Theune
On 07/21/2010 06:40 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote:
 On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 23:57, Marius Gedminasmar...@gedmin.as  wrote:
 I'm for two separate releases.  Release early, release often.

 Oh, that's not a problem.
 svn://svn.zope.org/repos/main/zope.testing/branches/regebro-400 Is
 testrunner free and runs on Python 3 already. It's purely a question
 of if we want both changes at once or not. :-)

I myself prefer having more releases. I like Marius' idea: 3.10 would be 
good for removing the test runner then 4.0 can be Py3 compatibility.

Christian

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[Zope-dev] Developer meeting 2010-07-20 at 15:00 UTC

2010-07-19 Thread Christian Theune
Hi again,

another week another developer meeting in IRC.

We had a bugday last week and we should review that and plan ahead.

We've also had the languishing bug check run for a while without too 
much improvements, so I'd also like to spend some time triaging them.

Additional topic suggestions are, as always, welcome.

See http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/zope-dev/zope-dev-20100720.html 
(should be available in a few minutes).

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Tests: 47 OK, 17 Failed

2010-07-17 Thread Christian Theune
On 07/12/2010 03:29 PM, Tres Seaver wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1


 Subject: FAILED : ZTK 1.0dev / Python2.7.0 Linux 32bit
 From: ccomb at free.fr
 Date: Mon Jul 12 00:18:15 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/016518.html
 ...
 Subject: FAILED : ZTK 1.0 / Python2.7.0 Linux 32bit
 From: ccomb at free.fr
 Date: Mon Jul 12 01:53:35 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/016524.html

 Maybe we should not be running the ZTK 1.0 tests against Python 2.7:
 the failures in the pinned zope.testing.testrunner, for instance, seem
 to be WONTFIX on the new platform.  I think it is fine to run trunk
 version tests against Python 2.7 (e.g., once we add zope.testrunner and
 unpin zope.testing).

 Or maybe we can just cut the frequency of those runs down.  Having too
 many failures show up every day is seriously demotivating.

Ack.

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[Zope-dev] IRC meeting summaries from 2010-07-13 and 2010-07-06

2010-07-16 Thread Christian Theune
Hi there,

sorry for the even larger lag ... here's the summaries from the IRC 
meetings of last week and this week:


- Please don't put VCS properties ($Id) in code anymore. If you find
   them you may actively remove them. No need to spend time combing
   through the repository, though.

- People are coming up with topic ideas for the Zope summit in
   September in Germany, including:

   - getting more compelling stories for Zope
   - better documentation
   - zope.org improvements
   - experimentation and folding common experiences into common code,
 higher quality code
   - describing Zope's use cases

- Tres is currently building a tool (zope.optionalextension) to allow
   packages like zope.i18nmessageid to be build properly on platforms
   that don't support our C-Extensions (GAE. Jython, IronPython, Windows
   without compilers)

- We need to deal with the fact that some projects in svn.zope.org are
   likely abandoned and we need to deal with it. Initially we will start
   annotating the repository policy report with 'last checkin time' and
   'frequent committers' to allow everyone to scan through the rather
   large report and check for projects that they are interested in.

- ZTK 1.0 vs Python 2.7 was discussed but there was no deviation from
   the outcome of the thread in this list.

- We need help from the people who run Windows by actively fixing bugs
   as they appear on the builders. Please. :)

The full reports are available here:
http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/zope-dev/index.html

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Invitation to bug day in July

2010-07-06 Thread Christian Theune
On 06/28/2010 06:33 PM, Christian Theune wrote:
 Hi everyone,

 our bug day in July needs scheduling and we'd like you to tell us which
 day works best for you if you want to participate:
 http://doodle.com/akd2f59kdadp86r2

Ok, so although Charlie indicated that his doodle is wrong, I'll take 
that as an indicator that Wednesday is generally more acceptable.

So, next Wednesday (2010-07-14) is the next bug day. Here's a wiki page 
so you can also register there to indicate participation:
http://wiki.zope.org/ztk/BugDay20100714

So, again:

Everyone can participate in a bug day: whether you want to report a bug, 
discuss a
bug or a feature, fix bugs or do anything else to improve Zope software,
feel free to step by on #z...@freenode and join us!

Hope to see you next week!

Christian

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[Zope-dev] Reminder: doodle your bug day participation

2010-07-05 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

I'd like to close the Doodle (see link below) tonight and have only had 
4 responses so far, so, if you only forgot about it, please go ahead and 
indicate what day is best for you.

Christian

On 06/28/2010 06:33 PM, Christian Theune wrote:
 Hi everyone,

 our bug day in July needs scheduling and we'd like you to tell us which
 day works best for you if you want to participate:
 http://doodle.com/akd2f59kdadp86r2

 Everyone can participate: whether you want to report a bug, discuss a
 bug or a feature, fix bugs or do anything else to improve Zope software,
 feel free to step by on #z...@freenode and join us!

 The last bug day got a lot of work done, see the summarized reports in
 the wiki:
 http://wiki.zope.org/ztk/BugDay20100616

 Hope to see you during the bug day in July,
 Christian



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Re: [Zope-dev] Developer meeting in IRC tomorrow at 15:00 UTC

2010-07-05 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

in preparing tomorrows meeting, here's the report from last week:

KGS 3.4.1 is out. Adam misses a German translation of the announcement, 
please help translating, ask Adam.

Reminder: there will be no KGS 3.5 as there will be no Zope 3.5. 
BlueBream is the successor.

Some ideas for the Zope summit were thrown in:

* software quality certification
* more explanation about how to solve problems with a component-based
   approach instead of more features
* check what others do to discover where we're missing out
* bicycle toolkit

The full minutes should be available soonish, here:
http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/zope-dev/zope-dev-20100629.html

-- 
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[Zope-dev] Developer meeting, week 27

2010-07-05 Thread Christian Theune
Hi there,

I'd like to invite you all to this week's developer meeting on IRC 
(#z...@freenode) which will happen tomorrow at 15:00 UTC.

If you have anything you'd like to talk about, please feel free too send 
a topic suggestion in response to this post: it's really intended to be 
a platform for anyone of us to get itches scratched, so I want *you* to 
speak up. :)

If nothing else comes up, we'll talk about:

- The use of CVS keywords ($Id$) and whether to keep them, ignore them,
   remove them.
- Revisit the Zope summit topic planning (I'll be around this time...)

Also, it's been another 4 weeks down the road and we agreed last time to 
spend some time in meta mode every now and then. So, independent of what 
we talk about in the 30 minutes of the meeting, please bring an 
additional 15 minutes for talking about the meeting itself.

Christian

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Re: [Zope-dev] Developer meeting in IRC tomorrow at 15:00 UTC

2010-06-28 Thread Christian Theune
On 06/21/2010 05:59 PM, Christian Theune wrote:
 Hi,

 I'd like to invite to the next developer meeting on IRC (#z...@freenode)
 which happens tomorrow at 15:00 UTC.

And here's the report. Sorry for the delay.

http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/zope-dev/zope-dev-20100622.html

(Might take a minute for the cronjob to update)

Here's the quick summary:

* Bug trackers are now checked once a week for bugs that have been
   reported but not answered in more than 7 days.

* We sketched out the steps to turn package documentation to Sphinx
   based on Tres' example of zope.event

* We sketched out the plan for gathering floating documentation and
   porting it over to docs.zope.org

* Last bug day got a lot done, see the summarized reports here:
   http://wiki.zope.org/ztk/BugDay20100616

* The next bug day will be scheduled in the week of July 12th-18th.
   Doodle coming up right away.

Christian

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[Zope-dev] Invitation to bug day in July

2010-06-28 Thread Christian Theune
Hi everyone,

our bug day in July needs scheduling and we'd like you to tell us which 
day works best for you if you want to participate:
http://doodle.com/akd2f59kdadp86r2

Everyone can participate: whether you want to report a bug, discuss a 
bug or a feature, fix bugs or do anything else to improve Zope software, 
feel free to step by on #z...@freenode and join us!

The last bug day got a lot of work done, see the summarized reports in 
the wiki:
http://wiki.zope.org/ztk/BugDay20100616

Hope to see you during the bug day in July,
Christian

-- 
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gocept gmbh  co. kg · forsterstraße 29 · 06112 halle (saale) · germany
http://gocept.com · tel +49 345 1229889 0 · fax +49 345 1229889 1
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Re: [Zope-dev] Invitation to bug day in July

2010-06-28 Thread Christian Theune
On 06/28/2010 06:33 PM, Christian Theune wrote:
 Hi everyone,

 our bug day in July needs scheduling and we'd like you to tell us which
 day works best for you if you want to participate:
 http://doodle.com/akd2f59kdadp86r2

PS: Deadline for doodling is Monday 2010-07-05

Christian

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[Zope-dev] Developer meeting in IRC tomorrow at 15:00 UTC

2010-06-28 Thread Christian Theune
Hi,

I'd like to invite to the next developer meeting on IRC (#z...@freenode) 
which happens tomorrow at 15:00 UTC.

If you have anything you'd like to talk about, please feel free too send 
a topic suggestion in response to this post: it's really intended to be 
a platform for anyone of us to get itches scratched, so I want *you* to 
speak up. :)

If nothing else comes up, we'll:

- review/wrap up the KGS 3.4.1 release
- look forward to the Zope summit

As I probably won't make it tomorrow (Charlie, taking over?) I will 
point out some more details about the Zope summit here:

The summit is intended to provide a space for as many of us as possible 
to meet face to face and look forward to what we want to do next.

I'm happy to provide an organizational framework (time, space, 
infrastructure) at the gocept offices but I do not want to impose or 
imply anything, really (especially no hidden agendas, only open ones: do 
cool stuff!)

So I'd like to open up the floor to everyone who ponders participating 
and express their wishes/hopes/expectations for the summit. Don't start 
your engines trying to solve any specific issue right now. Try to 
abstain from bikeshedding. Think of this as the preliminary 
brainstorming to figure out what we want to talk about at the summit.

If nothing else, I'd be happy to get a list of ideas what people think 
would be worthwhile to talk about.

Christian

-- 
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