Re: [Zope-dev] Forcing buildout to download sdist packages only

2013-05-30 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Andreas Jung li...@zopyx.com wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Hi there,

 I have a buildout where I am using the 'pyamp' module.

 https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyamp

 zc.buildout on my Raspberry PI tries to download and install
 the binary release package for Linux.

Fair enough, (as I assume you run Linux on it) but the only binary
release is for i686 Linux, and that's wrong, since it's an ARM. This
must be a bug somewhere.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] ZCA for javascript

2013-05-22 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 1:52 AM, Christopher Lozinski
lozin...@freerecruiting.com wrote:
 ZCA is very interesting stuff.

 I got a call today from a client who wants to do an extensible
 application in Javacript.

 I instantly thought, we could do ZCA in Javascript.  And while not many
 people likes ZODB servers, they all love Javascript clients.

 Has anyone done something like this?   Is anyone interested in doing
 something like this?

 What do you think

Although I'm sure it is possible to make a generic component
architecture in Javascript I highly doubt that it makes sense. JS is
almost all about UI and DOM manipulation, and having something as
abstract as a generic component framework for that may be an
abstraction too far. So what you want is a framework for making
modular JS clients.

And there are tons and tons of modular frameworks for making front-end
apps in Javascript already. Creating another one probably doesn't make
any sense, at least not until you can explain exactly why you can't
use anyone of those that exist.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] Success at porting ZTK to Python 3!

2013-04-08 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 4:36 PM, Albertas Agejevas a...@pov.lt wrote:
 Subject: Success at porting ZTK app to Python 3!

Awesome!
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Re: [Zope-dev] ZTK 2.0: Deprecate zope.sequencesort

2013-03-01 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 4:04 AM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote:
 Assuming an unsorted list of news stories, how would you use sorted to
 get them ordered by category (ascending) + publication date (descending)?

This is the easiest, most obvious way:

 sorted(sorted(news_stories, lambda x: x.publication_date,
reverse=True), lambda x: x.category)

And yes, I have made performance analysis, and it is often faster two
do two sorts than trying to compute a complex key.

 If you spend more than a minute on it (e.g., trying to come up with a
 bug-free way to compute negative dates) you've proved my mpoint. :)

I haven't got a clue what negative dates are, unless you mean BC.
But the above works (unless I got ascending and descending mixed up as
usual).

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] ZTK 2.0: Deprecate zope.sequencesort

2013-03-01 Thread Lennart Regebro
I'm sorry, it's early in the morning. It is of course:

  sorted(sorted(news_stories, key=lambda x: x.publication_date,
reverse=True), key=lambda x: x.category)

I forgot the key= bit.
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Re: [Zope-dev] ZTK 2.0: Deprecate zope.sequencesort

2013-03-01 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 7:06 PM, Suresh V. suresh...@yahoo.com wrote:
 On Friday 01 March 2013 02:15 PM, Lennart Regebro wrote:

 I'm sorry, it's early in the morning. It is of course:

   sorted(sorted(news_stories, key=lambda x: x.publication_date,
 reverse=True), key=lambda x: x.category)



 Won't the two sorteds step over each other?

Nope. Timsort is a stable sort, so you get a list that is sorted first
by category and then by publication_date.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] ZTK 2.0: Deprecate zope.sequencesort

2013-02-28 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 3:00 PM, Wichert Akkerman wich...@wiggy.net wrote:

 On Feb 28, 2013, at 14:43 , Stephan Richter stephan.rich...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi everyone,

 I would like to deprecate zope.sequencesort in ZTK 2.0, since it cannot
 properly ported to Python 3, since it depends heavily on the cmp() way of
 sorting. I am also not a user of the package and I only tried to port the
 package for completeness sake.

 What does it do? I could not find a single line of documentation for it, 
 which makes it likely very few people, if any, are using it.

Reading through the code, it seems to use a lot of code to provide
quite basic sorting functionality.
It feels like it's trying to fill the same role as sorted() does since
Python 2.4.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] ZTK 2.0: Deprecate zope.sequencesort

2013-02-28 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On 02/28/2013 10:41 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote:

 Reading through the code, it seems to use a lot of code to provide
 quite basic sorting functionality. It feels like it's trying to fill
 the same role as sorted() does since Python 2.4.

 The other features (locale-aware sorting, sort different keys using
 different algorithms / directions) are not easy to emulate using 'sorted()'

Locale aware sorting can be tricky, I'll have to look at that code
again. Sorting different keys and directions are trivial with
sorted(). I'm not sure what different algorithms mean, with sorted
you implement a function that returns a sorting key, that sorting key
is then used to sort. It should be possible to sort according to any
algorithm that way.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] ZTK 2.0 process

2013-02-27 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 4:45 PM, Stephan Richter
stephan.rich...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi everyone,

 We are about 5-6 packages away from porting ZTK to Python 3

That's awesome!

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] Porting zope.tal to Python 3

2013-02-11 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 7:44 PM, Marius Gedminas mar...@gedmin.as wrote:
 - Running 2to3 on your sources is a good way to identify places that
   need changing, but you'll have to revert most of the actual changes to
   keep it compatible with Python 2.

I've find the easiest way to keep compatibility to port to Python 3
first, and then reintroduce compatibility with first Python 2.7, and
then 2.6.
Python-modernize might change that.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] javascript in zope

2013-02-08 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 9:25 AM, murat bilal murat.bi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Can anybody help how to execute javascript code on DTML method like

It's a bit unclear what you are trying to do. But you can not call
DTML methods from Javascript, if that's what you want.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] Python 3 support status page

2013-01-29 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Marius Gedminas mar...@gedmin.as wrote:
 On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 10:41:59PM +0100, Lennart Regebro wrote:
 On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Marius Gedminas mar...@gedmin.as wrote:
  I wanted to have an up-to-date status page for the status of the Python
  3 porting efforts of various zope-ish packages, so I made one:
  http://zope3.pov.lt/py3/

 Awesome. But do we have to call it Zope3? :-)

 What should I call it, BlueBream?  ZTK?  Just Zope?

 Hmm, Zope, in the sense of all packages maintained under the aegis of
 the Zope Foundation, seems reasonable, as long as people won't assume
 the page was about Zope2.

 The Pyramid folks have a Pylons Project, which will develop a
 collection of related technologies [r]ather than focusing on a single
 web framework.  Sounds familiar.  Should there be a Zope Project, to
 encompass Zope 2, Zope 3/BlueBream, ZTK, Grok, and everything else?

 In other news, experts discuss the best color for bike sheds.  Stay
 tuned.

Yeah, ZTK, Zope or Zope Project all work.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] Python 3 support status page

2013-01-28 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Marius Gedminas mar...@gedmin.as wrote:
 I wanted to have an up-to-date status page for the status of the Python
 3 porting efforts of various zope-ish packages, so I made one:
 http://zope3.pov.lt/py3/

Awesome. But do we have to call it Zope3? :-)


//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] [ZODB-Dev] Progress report: porting persistent, BTrees to Python3

2012-12-17 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Chris McDonough chr...@plope.com wrote:
 On Sun, 2012-12-16 at 22:10 +0100, Godefroid Chapelle wrote:
 Le 15/12/12 01:52, Tres Seaver a écrit :
  I fixed the remainig issues in persistent and released 4.0.5 today:  its
  tests properly exercise the C extensions Under Python 3.2 / 3.3.

 I want to express my thanks to you, Tres, for taking care of that work !

 This port of ZODB to Python 3 is really a crucial step for the ZTK
 ecosystem. After the work already done on zope.interface and zope.component.

 Further, I'd like to also thank Jim for his work on porting buildout.

 When this will be finished, porting the rest of the ZTK should be much
 easier, which hopefully implies that more of us will be able to
 participate.

 Hear, hear!

+lots
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Re: [Zope-dev] [ZODB-Dev] [announce] NEO 1.0 - scalable and redundant storage for ZODB

2012-08-27 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Vincent Pelletier vinc...@nexedi.com wrote:
 Hi,

 We've just tagged the 1.0 NEO release.

 NEO aims at being a replacement for use-cases where ZEO is used, but
 with better scalability (by allowing data of a single database to be
 distributed over several machines, and by removing database-level
 locking), with failure resilience (by mirroring database content among
 machines). Under the hood, it relies on simple features of SQL
 databases (safe on-disk data structure, efficient memory usage,
 efficient indexes).

That sounds pretty cool!
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Re: [Zope-dev] We need to change how code ownership works.

2012-08-20 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 1:38 PM, Hanno Schlichting ha...@hannosch.eu wrote:
 The Plone Foundation adopted a policy for this, see 
 http://plone.org/foundation/materials/foundation-resolutions/patch-policy-052011

 As we don't have any terms of service stating so for any of our issue 
 trackers, we don't get any copyright assignments for reported bugs or 
 proposed patches. Patches can be sent we private email, posted to bug 
 trackers, on paste.org like services or sent via pull requests. All of those 
 are legally the same and it's the responsibility of the person doing the 
 checkin to validate the copyright situation. That said a lot of patches don't 
 actually contain any creative work that falls under the copyright rules. This 
 last point is the reason most projects aren't very strict about this issue.

I Am Not A Lawyer, but this sounds reasonable, and if it's good enough
for the Plone foundation, it's good enough for me. :-)

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] We need to change how code ownership works.

2012-08-20 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Jens Vagelpohl j...@dataflake.org wrote:
 Maintaining the chain of custody doesn't just consist of selecting pull 
 requests or patches coming from somewhere. It also means verifying the 
 contributor - be it the one who is creating the patch or pull request or the 
 one who is merging new code into the repository - is who he claims to be. In 
 the current setup the verification of the merging contributor is done using 
 unique SSH logins with keys for every contributor, which works very well.

Once again I have to say that I think it's beyond any reasonable doubt
that whoever is using a github account is the owner of that account.
Somebody could steal an SSH key as well. I'm pretty sure that the
claim I know it says that Jens did the checkin, but in fact it was
me, I had stolen his account, so therefore I own the copyright is
hardly a claim that will hold up in a court of law.

 - Read access for everyone including anonymous viewers

Github: Check.

 - Write access for signed contributors only

Github: Check.

 - Signed contributors must be able to create new repositories themselves 
 (current analogy: A contributor adds a new project on svn.zope.org)

Github: Check.

 - Good verification that a login to the chosen system represents a specific 
 person/contributor (current example: access via unique SSH logins with keys)

Github: Check.

 - Only ZF-appointed contributor admins may open access for contributors after 
 receiving and verifying signed  contributor agreements (currently Andreas 
 Jung as officially appointed contributor committee member and Christian 
 Theune as board member and contributor committee member handle this job)

Github: I don't know. I took the liberty of adding you to one of my
repos as collaborator, but I didn't find any way to change your
privileges so that you also could add collaborators, so someone else
have to answer that more closely. (I removed you as a collaborator
again, but just FYI: If anyone wants write access to my github repos
you'll probably get it. :-) )

 - Only ZF-appointed contributor admins (see above) may change or revoke 
 access privileges for contributors

Same thing, no?

 - a reasonably convenient web view onto the repositories/projects for 
 visitors and contributors

Github: Check

 - a reasonably convenient way (e.g. web admin capabilities) for the ZF 
 contributor adminstration to do their job

Github: Check


The discussion is not github or nothing, but almost. Github makes open
source easier. I got angry when Plone moved to github with basically
no discussion, but there is no doubt that it was the right decision.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] We need to change how code ownership works.

2012-08-20 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
 Github: I don't know. I took the liberty of adding you to one of my
 repos as collaborator, but I didn't find any way to change your
 privileges so that you also could add collaborators, so someone else
 have to answer that more closely. (I removed you as a collaborator
 again, but just FYI: If anyone wants write access to my github repos
 you'll probably get it. :-) )

And I just realized that this test was completely pointless, as I was
testing on repositories, but what we are takling about is
Organizations like https://github.com/collective and
https://github.com/plone.
I'm 99% sure that Github fulfills the requirements here as well. I for
example, have write access to the repos in the Collective, I can
create new repos, but I do not have admin rights, showing that there
is separation between collaborators and admins, and that therefore
only Andreas and Christian could be made admins, fulfilling the
requirement here as well.

Hence I'm 99.8% sure that Github fulfills all the requirements, and
that we can move development of various parts to Github with no
problem.

The patch/merge problem exists as of today, with or without Github,
and needs to be fixed in any case. The Plone patch policy is one
option there.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] We need to change how code ownership works.

2012-08-20 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 10:28 AM,  j...@nexedi.com wrote:
 This approach protects from:
 - legal risks posed by github

Such as?

 - instabilities due to ever changing fashion in code hosting (sourceforce 
 then google code then bitbucket then github then etc.)

Sure. At the cost of a lot of extra complexity, that is.

 - destruction, traceability or security issues posed by cloud infrastructure 
 not controlled by ZF (logs, bugs,  forums, not only code)

What would these be.

 This approach enforces:
 - freedom for fashion victims to follow latest fashions

Making it easy to contribute is not a fashion but a fundamental part
of how good open source works.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] We need to change how code ownership works.

2012-08-20 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Leonardo Rochael Almeida
leoroch...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,

 On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 10:28 AM,  j...@nexedi.com wrote:
 This approach protects from:
 - legal risks posed by github

 Such as?

 I'll let Jean-Paul elaborate, but I suppose it could be something
 along the lines of GitHub suddenly disappearing with (some of) your
 content (code, forum posts, metadata like group associations)

We need backups, yes.

 making some other unwanted use of it, and you having no legal recourse
 because of some small print in some EULA somewhere that someone didn't
 bother to fully read.

I have absolutely no idea what kind of legal but unwanted use that
could be, except spamming email addresses of course.

 The point is not that these can't happen to ZF repos, but that ZF
 would have no recourse to fix the issue except to wait on GitHub to
 act on it.

OK, that's the first good argument I have heard.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] We need to change how code ownership works.

2012-08-20 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Charlie Clark
charlie.cl...@clark-consulting.eu wrote:
  https://github.com/popular/starred
  i doubt that github i willing to get into the doghouse by doing really
 nasty things - and thus getting into risk of loosing projects.

 This is pure speculation, or are you privy to board decisions at Github.

Yet again, I point out that the nastiest thing they legally can do is
spamming your email address.

 I raised a specific objection: that the onus is on anyone with a Github
 account to demonstrate their code does not violate any patents in the case
 of a claim feels like a pretty real threat to me.

If you are on Github or not makes no difference. Github has that
clause to protect themselves if somebody else hosts copyright or
patent protected code. It means, should Zope violate any patents and
Github get sued because of this, the Zope Foundation needs to pay any
damages. If we host it ourself, the *we* get sued, and need to pay the
damages anyway.

Hence Github or no Github yet again makes little, if any, difference.

 Again, as Jens has repeatedly said we should not conflate the separate items
 of toolchain and service provider. Zope Foundation has hardware and a proven
 track record in hosting. Is anyone actually criticising this?

This is not about git vs svn. It's about using external services, with
all the benefits this gets us, or not. And the arguments against are
so far mostly because of perceived legal problems with using an
external service. Problems that in fact either don't exist, or are
just as severe with self-hosting of the code.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Jens Vagelpohl j...@dataflake.org wrote:

 On Aug 18, 2012, at 21:46 , Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:

 Yes, but my question is why this changes with github.

 GitHub is a third party infrastructure run by other people. I cannot 
 ascertain how well it enforces our requirement that all checkins must be from 
 signed contributors only.

I have to say that I find it to be without any reasonable doubt
without question that you can only wrote to a repository if you have
write access. Questioning this is to me somewhat surprising, and we
might as well claim that we can't ascertain how well the current SVN
server enforces our requirements, as we don't know what undiscovered
security holes it might have.

 Furthermore, I cannot ascertain that private contributor data remains private 
 (email addresses etc).

Is this really a requirement? Why is this a requirement? All you need
to enter at github is an email (which in practice is all we can verify
in ZF as well, as all communication is by email). Why does this email
address have to remain private?

 And since it becomes ever easier to accept code from unknown sources (e.g. 
 pull requests) legal code ownership becomes an issue again.

And that returns me to my first question: Is it really legally
different for a contributor to accept a pull request from a
non-contributor compared with a contributor merging a patch from a
non-contributor?

//Lennart
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[Zope-dev] We need to change how code ownership works.

2012-08-19 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Jens Vagelpohl j...@dataflake.org wrote:

 On Aug 19, 2012, at 10:17 , Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:

 And since it becomes ever easier to accept code from unknown sources (e.g. 
 pull requests) legal code ownership becomes an issue again.

 And that returns me to my first question: Is it really legally
 different for a contributor to accept a pull request from a
 non-contributor compared with a contributor merging a patch from a
 non-contributor?

 Legally, both are disallowed unless there's some proof (written statement 
 etc) from the code author that he assigns ownership of the patch or the 
 contents of that pull request to the contributor who is doing the checkin.

 In the past we haven't done a good job of enforcing this clear ownership 
 assignment chain. There are always code patches from non-contributors in the 
 bug tracker that may make it into the code base with the help of a 
 contributor. There's a grey area: Is the act of submitting a patch into the 
 Zope bug tracker enough to signal I am giving you ownership of this code? I 
 am not sure.

 GitHub makes this pulling in of outside code even easier. I'm afraid it 
 will become even harder to really maintain this chain of custody.

This is then, IMO a problem that we should fix. What you are in fact
saying is that the current system are violating people's copyright
everytime we merge a non-contributors patch. It is unfeasible to not
merge peoples patches, and I think it is also a big problem that the
way the ownership of the code works now inhibits the increased
simplicity of making and merging fixes for non-core contributors.

In other words, we have had an ownership situation which is terrible,
and nobody seems to have realized this until now. Well, now we know.

As such, the discussion must now shift from don't do this to how do
we do this. Poeple want to contribute and we should not say don't do
that, we have to figure out *how* to make it possible to do that, and
pretty pronto as well.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Jens Vagelpohl j...@dataflake.org wrote:
 Speaking for myself as ZF representative, it is my duty to make sure that 
 chain of custody for the code is upheld and safeguarded. Convenience, which I 
 feel is driving the move towards GitHub, is nice to have. But I would not do 
 my job if I didn't make extra-sure that any move for Zope Foundation code did 
 not fulfil all legal requirements before spending much thought on convenience.

Absolutely, and you are doing a good job as well, as you have no
identified a problem that we have been having for a long time, before
the problem actually turns legal. That's an amazing relief, because it
means we can fix it.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 5:49 PM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote:
 The point is that the identity of the committer on Github is not tied to
 the ZF's machinery for contributions, which means that it cannot be used
 to preserve the chain of custody under the contributor agreement.

What stops us from fixing this problem?

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Jens Vagelpohl j...@dataflake.org wrote:
 Legally this must be a fork then and I'm not sure it can be released as 
 official Zope Foundation software anymore if you make releases from GitHub. 
 Reason: the ZF can no longer ascertain that only official ZF contributor 
 agreement signers have modified code in the package, which is a core 
 requirement for software released from Zope Foundation repositories/under 
 Zope Foundation auspices.

Is this because of the support for merging pull requests? Is that
really legally different than a contributor making a merge from a
patch?

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 11:03 PM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote:
 Because the ability to check into svn.zope.org is based on a chain of
 custody managed by the ZF (web account, verified e-mail address, and SSH
 key).  J. Random Hacker's account on Github has no such chain.

Sure, but Random J Hacker shouldn't have write permission to the
repository, so I don't understand why that makes a difference.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] [ZODB-Dev] RFC: release persistent as a standalone package

2012-07-03 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 7:35 PM, Alan Runyan runy...@gmail.com wrote:
 I would like to release a '4.0.0' version of the package, and switch
 the ZODB trunk to pull it in as a dependency (deleting the currently
 included (older) copy of persistent).  One possible issue is that I
 have not (yet) made the C extensions work under Python 3.2:  I don't
 know whether that should be a blocker for a release.

 I do not believe its a blocker. That is a feature that could be added.

 Comments?

 You rock.

+1
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Re: [Zope-dev] zope.interface 4.0.0 considered annoying.

2012-05-21 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 10:42 PM, Jim Fulton j...@zope.com wrote:
 Except that most of us aren't going to use 2to3, except for an initial
 stab at porting to 23.

Which is good enough. You only need to run it once.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] zope.interface 4.0.0 considered annoying.

2012-05-20 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 6:08 AM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote:
 I will release a 4.0.1 silencing the warnings unless somebody speaks up
 in their favor.

We should make sure we have 2to3 fixers for everything change as well.
I added some fixers, but it's so long ago I'm not sure all changes are
covered. But with fixers the warnings aren't very problematic, as
fixing the loud failures is just a matter of running the fixers.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] zope.i18n plural form support

2012-05-18 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 10:42 PM, Thomas Massmann
thomas.massm...@inqbus.de wrote:
 I added the plural form support

Whohoo!
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Re: [Zope-dev] Python 3.3 port of zope.configuration

2012-04-13 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 01:37, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote:
 How deep is the six dependency?  For every package I've ported to date,
 it has ended up being more sensible to implement a local '_compat' module
 which had only the needed straddles (sometimes inspired by six, sometimes
 very localized).

You can also just copy six.py into the module and use it from there.
That way it's not an external dependency any more.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] ZAM/ZMI Demo

2012-02-07 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 13:07, Sylvain Viollon sylv...@infrae.com wrote:
  That would be great, for my part to be able to have the management tools
 (packing and such) in a separate package than the object browsing

Excellent point.

 (and even
 the object actions, if you want to keep them, I don't want them).

We need two packages for the object browser: One with the interfaces
and layers to enable registration of the object actions and views, and
one with the actual object browser views, that makes use of these
registered actions and views.

And we need one package that contain the New ZMI which is basically
just a Zope Control panel, where the object browser is just one plugin
to that control panel.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] ZAM/ZMI Demo

2012-02-06 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 04:49, Roger d...@projekt01.ch wrote:
 It has an Add menu, but there is nothing to add by default.
 You can see the Add menu left from the Context Menu. It will
 open if you hover on the +.

 The important part in ZAM is, that it is cusomizable
 by ist plugins. This concept was used because not
 every project is using the full zope.* package stack.

This is at least an important attitude.
I think also a future admin interface to a large extent should lose
many of the ZMI concepts. For example, we need several management
tools, like what is in the control panel at the moment. But that
should be separate from the browsing of objects. That browsing should
instead be a rather low-level ZODB browser, IMO.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 4 release management

2012-02-02 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 14:29, Alex Clark acl...@aclark.net wrote:
 On 2/1/12 8:21 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote:
 Should you then decide
 that github is the place  to host it, well, then git is the software
 to use.

 Actually, they introduced improved Subversion client support late last year:

 - https://github.com/blog/966-improved-subversion-client-support

And now you have two problems. :-)

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 4 release management

2012-02-02 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 15:40, Alexandre Garel alex.ga...@tarentis.com wrote:
 I'm a bit amazed by this argumentation. I think one important thing is that
 subversion is centralized while dvcs are not.

And I think it's very unimportant.

 With dvcs everyone got full history of zope libs. I personally find it a big
 pro for a free software.

You get that with svn too.

 More over with dvcs someone may fork a product on his side (a branch of his
 own, not on a zope server) and make it evolve, still having ability to merge
 updates (and auto merge in dvcs are superior to the one found in
 subversion).

You can do that with svn too. The merging of it is easier with
something like github or gitorious, but git in itself doesn't really
help.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 4 release management

2012-02-01 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 13:03, Alex Clark acl...@aclark.net wrote:
 - what RCS software to use
 - where to host it

 It may be easier if we disentangled them.

 Traditionally it was easier, but now-a-days with github and bitbucket they
 are harder to disentangle.

It is entangled, but it is important to notice that they are separate concerns.

I do think the big issue is where to host it. Yes, fine, people have
opinions on git vs svn vs hg, etc. But that boils down to 25%
technical arguments, 25% what you are used to 25% what everyone else
uses and then 30% religion to make sure the bucket overflows.

But where to host it is a tricky issue. Ownership and control is one
big argument for having our own servers. Githubs forking/merging
process a big argument for going to github. Should you then decide
that github is the place  to host it, well, then git is the software
to use.

To be honest I see little point in just setting up our own git
repository. Yeah, maybe git is better from some technical standpoints,
but it's also harder to use, and the question then becomes just
religion.

What we would like to do, of course, is to have a self-hosted github.
:-)  (And that exists. Buuut... it costs $250 per commiter and
year, so that's not an option, obviously.)

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope internals documentation

2011-12-31 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 20:09, Martin Aspeli optilude+li...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi folks,

 I have documented some of the darker corners of Zope's internals. I
 put it in the Plone developer documentation for lack of a better
 place, but it's not Plone-specific:

 http://collective-docs.readthedocs.org/en/latest/zope_secrets/index.html

 Topics covered include startup, publication, traversal and security.

 One reason to do this, apart from morbid fascination, is to provide a
 baseline against which we can consider simplifying some of this stuff.

 For example, I'd like to consider an (opt-in) simplification of the
 publisher and traversal, probably based on a stripped-down and
 modernised repoze.zope2, which does away with some hooks and edge
 cases, but is much simpler and easier to understand. Some things we
 could consider chopping are:

  - Attribute traversal to anything other than methods at the end of
 the traversal chain (i.e. use __getitem__ traversal only)
  - Traversal to anything without explicit security declarations
  - The docstring security check
  - Maybe __bobo_traverse__ (i.e. just implement __getitem__) and
 __before_publishing_traverse__ (use a BeforeTraverseEvent instead, and
 notify this for all traversals, not just over local component sites)
  - All differences between publication and path traversal

 This is still somewhat half-baked and obviously would break things and
 require at least a new major version of Zope, but I think it's worth
 exploring at least.

+1 for all of those, as a part of the so called Zope 4 path of developments.
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Re: [Zope-dev] Revert removal of ++skin++ in Zope4?

2011-11-17 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 16:12, Laurence Rowe l...@lrowe.co.uk wrote:
 While I think there is definitely scope for simplifying the mix of
 competing skin concepts in the Zope/CMF/Plone space, we need to be
 careful not to bite off more than we can chew. We still have a lot of
 CMF skin scripts and templates in Plone that I don't want to become a
 blocker for adopting Zope 4. This should be the first of several
 releases that progressively rationalise our software stack, lets not
 try and do it all at once.

Absolutely. Getting rid of CMFSkins is a part of getting rid of CMF,
not a part of moving to Zope 4. Different issues.

But I do think that whatever skin concept Zope 4 has, should be one
that can also be used by Plone. Until we get rid of CMF we have to
have at least two skin concepts, and that's one to many. Having a
third one is no good.

If, as Tres say, ++skins++ is overworked and overcomplicated, could we
extend plone.browserlayers to have a traverser or something?

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] Revert removal of ++skin++ in Zope4?

2011-11-17 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 11:52, Charlie Clark
charlie.cl...@clark-consulting.eu wrote:
 Hi Lennart,

 I'm not sure if you're not mixing different issues here.

 Am 17.11.2011, 11:35 Uhr, schrieb Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com:

 Absolutely. Getting rid of CMFSkins is a part of getting rid of CMF,
 not a part of moving to Zope 4. Different issues.

 I assume you are referring to removing Plone's dependencies on CMF. That
 is not relevant to the discussion about Zope 4 / ZMI reimagined.

Which is exactly what I said above.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 4 roadmap

2011-11-17 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 20:57, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote:
 FWIW, the port to Python3 of substantial existing web framework code is
 already a dubious proposition:  nearly everybody doing it these days is
 suffering pain (making their own code more complicated by straddling) in
 order to gain hypothetical future benefits.

The framework as a whole should not straddle versions. Just as we drop
backwards incompatibility for Zope 4 and then Zope 5 and then Zope 6,
etc, in one of these moves we drop backwards incompatibility by moving
from Python 2 to Python 3. That in fact is probably a good reason for
a new release all by itself. :-)

The same thing goes for Plone. Once Zope X does the move, Plone Y
does. Only the packages and products for Plone should need to straddle
versions.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] Revert removal of ++skin++ in Zope4?

2011-11-16 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:24, Laurence Rowe l...@lrowe.co.uk wrote:
 It was removed in http://zope3.pov.lt/trac/changeset/122056 because it
 wasn't actually being used anywhere. I'm not completely averse to
 adding it back, but it does create confusion with the various
 different alternatives in Zope2 like CMF skins and plone.browserlayer.

Right. Could we standardize on skins or browserlayers plz? Having both
confuses the heck out of me.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] Revert removal of ++skin++ in Zope4?

2011-11-16 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:53, Charlie Clark
charlie.cl...@clark-consulting.eu wrote:
 Am 16.11.2011, 12:49 Uhr, schrieb Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com:

 Right. Could we standardize on skins or browserlayers plz? Having both
 confuses the heck out of me.

 Definitely a topic that needs (re)-opening. From a CMF point of I think
 we're just about at the point where we could switch to browser layers,
 well, at least once CMF 2.3 has been released. But I think that CMF Skins
 still offer some functionality that you don't get with browser layers out
 of the box.

When I said skins I meant ++skins++. CMF Skins must die.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 4 publisher/traversal, sprint topic

2011-10-27 Thread Lennart Regebro
Do we really have to call it Zope 4? :-)

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 15:34, Leonardo Rochael Almeida
leona...@nexedi.com wrote:
 Hi,

 Sorry for the cross-post, but I'd like to talk about a possible sprint
 topic for the next DZUG sprint[1], and invite myself to it :-)

 After the last two rather serious security issues that were recently
 patched in the Zope2 code base, it is increasingly clear to me that,
 differently than what Hanno reported some time ago, it's not so much
 the ZMI that represents a huge security liability in the Zope
 codebase, but it's actually the way the current publisher happily
 traverses any attribute and publishes any method with docstring by
 default.

 The ZMI, of course, has its problems (ugly in appearance and even
 uglier in code), and I agree with Hanno on most everything he has to
 say about it, but I'd like to propose we start, for Zope 4, by
 tackling the potential security liability that is the Zope publisher
 itself, and the fact that it makes it easy to open up large security
 holes if you're not paying attention.

 I'd like to propose that publishing traversal in Zope 4 would, by
 default only traverse based on __getitem__ (not attribute lookup). For
 a minimum of backward compatibility, it could perhaps do a single
 traversal on getattr, and only after it has exhausted __getitem__
 traversal.

 After this, if the traversal found something, it would only be
 published if there is an explicit indication of intention that the
 object in question is supposed to be published. Otherwise, raise a
 NotFound, as if the traversal had failed.

 One example of an explicit demonstration of intent is, for example, if
 it provides an IPublishable interface (I just made that up, other
 names can be considered).

 Taking a suggestion from Shane, we could have convenient decorators
 for people who wants to explicitly publish class methods. They could
 dynamically create ZTK views with the same name as the function that
 they wrap and allow (or perhaps enable by default) some form of CSRF
 protection.

 To ease code migration, we could consider that the InitializeClass
 call provides the same effect as the above decorator. This would allow
 large amounts of previously existing code to work without recoding,
 while at the same time avoiding the security trap of forgetting to
 call InitializeClass and thus exposing unintented methods. It could
 even remove the need for the single getattr traversal compatibility
 above.

 On top of that, if InitializeClass register these views to a specific
 ZTK skin, it would make it possible to disable them by default,
 unless that specific skin is in effect, which would alleviate what
 Hanno described as running phpMyAdmin accessible to the world with
 the same credentials and on the same domain as the rest of your
 application.

 Anyway, I think the above is on-topic for the next DZUG sprint and I'd
 like to work on it there.

 So, even if the sprint is supposed to be in German, and I don't speak
 a word of it, can I attend?

 [1] http://www.zope.de/community/veranstaltungen/3.-dzug-sprint-2011-zmi
 , translation at:
 http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ensl=autotl=enu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zope.de%2Fcommunity%2Fveranstaltungen%2F3.-dzug-sprint-2011-zmi

 Cheers,

 Leo
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Re: [Zope-dev] zope.schema and Python 3

2011-10-11 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 10:22, Brian Sutherland br...@vanguardistas.net wrote:
 On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 01:14:26PM +0200, Brian Sutherland wrote:
 I've managed to port zope.schema to Python 3.2 on a branch
 (jinty-python3).

 One doubt which has just crept up on me is if these classes:

    ASCII, ASCIILine, URI, Id, DottedName

 should still inherit from Bytes on Python 3. It seems more logical that
 they should inherit from Text. I had to do some gymnastics to keep them
 bytes on python 3 and feel all dirty about it.

 DottedName, in particular, describes itself as Python-style dotted
 names. But in Python 3 this code works:

     from 漢語 import Español
     print(Español)
    class '漢語.Español'

 so a DottedName could be '漢語.Español' under Python 3. Definitely
 unicode and not Bytes.

 However, changing the behaviour of these classes between Python 2 and 3
 may be even more problematic.

 Another option is simply to have these classes raise NotImplementedError
 in their validate() methods under Python 3 and wait till the solution
 becomes more obvious.

 Anyone out there willing to assuage my doubts?

It seems to me that they should be `str`, all of them, except possibly
URI. I'm unsure exactly how that changes the behavior. ASCII/ASCIILine
should have validators to restrict them to ASCII only, reasonably, I
don't know if they already do.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] web sites are keep crashing

2011-08-25 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 10:34, Babylakshmi Muthusamy
babylakshmim...@gmail.com wrote:
 I would like to know whether we can change the proxy error to site error
 which wont affect the uptime of the site.

By default the proxy you have in front (Apache?) should not show 502
in these cases. This may be a problem in the configuration of that
proxy. It could also be that the Zope application you have catches the
error and then returns an empty response instead of the normal error
page. In that case the application needs to be fixed.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] congrats on the new zope.org launch, but..

2011-07-18 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 16:23, Martijn Faassen faas...@startifact.com wrote:
 On 07/15/2011 03:13 PM, Hanno Schlichting wrote:
 On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Martijn Faassenfaas...@startifact.com  
 wrote:
 I'd just call the category web framework; 2 out of 3 already say they
 are. Zope can then itself say in its description that it's an
 application server if that's an important term.

 At least zope2.zope.org uses the web framework term to describe Zope
 2 as well. application server doesn't describe todays Zope 2
 codebase and aim anymore either.

 So I'd rather place all of the big guys in the web framework box.

 +1

+1 too.
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Re: [Zope-dev] versions on zope.org and launchpad.net

2011-06-29 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 00:17, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote:
  - breaking the historic URLs for no purpose is lame, and would
   cause useless pain to people with older installations that rely
   on them (Yes, Virginia, there were automated buildouts before
   zc.buildout).

True. Can we have the old download URL's still there, but redirect or
link to PyPI from the web?

  - PyPI is the canonical download location for the current releases:
   launchpad should just be pointing there.

+1

I think also we should not on PyPI hide all releases except the latest
one. The download box should contain at minimum all supported
releases, preferrably the last of each major version (within reason).

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] zope-tests - FAILED: 4, OK: 86, UNKNOWN: 1

2011-06-27 Thread Lennart Regebro
Will not having open bug reports as a fail again turn the buildbots
red again, and hence return the overview to uselessness?

//Lennart

On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 07:00, Zope tests summarizer nore...@zope.org wrote:
 This is the summary for test reports received on the
 zope-tests list between 2011-06-25 00:00:00 UTC and 2011-06-26 00:00:00 UTC:

 See the footnotes for test reports of unsuccessful builds.

 An up-to date view of the builders is also available in our
 buildbot documentation:
 http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/process/buildbots.html#the-nightly-builds

 Reports received
 

       Bluebream / Python2.4.6 64bit linux
       Bluebream / Python2.5.5 64bit linux
       Bluebream / Python2.6.5 64bit linux
 [1]    Repository policy check found errors in 305 projects
       Total languishing bugs for zope2: 0
 [2]    Total languishing bugs for zope: 59
 [3]    Total languishing bugs for zopeapp: 2
 [4]    Total languishing bugs for zopetoolkit: 200
 [5]    UNKNOWN : Zope Buildbot / zope2.13_win-py2.6 slave-win
       ZTK 1.0 / Python2.4.6 Linux 64bit
       ZTK 1.0 / Python2.5.5 Linux 64bit
       ZTK 1.0 / Python2.6.5 Linux 64bit
       ZTK 1.0dev / Python2.4.6 Linux 64bit
       ZTK 1.0dev / Python2.5.5 Linux 64bit
       ZTK 1.0dev / Python2.6.5 Linux 64bit
       Zope 3.4 KGS / Python2.4.6 64bit linux
       Zope 3.4 KGS / Python2.5.5 64bit linux
       Zope 3.4 Known Good Set / py2.4-32bit-linux
       Zope 3.4 Known Good Set / py2.4-64bit-linux
       Zope 3.4 Known Good Set / py2.5-32bit-linux
       Zope 3.4 Known Good Set / py2.5-64bit-linux
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.12-py2.6 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.12-py2.6 slave-ubuntu32
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.12-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.13-py2.6 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.13-py2.6 slave-ubuntu32
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.13-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.13-py2.7 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.13-py2.7 slave-ubuntu32
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.13-py2.7 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.13_win-py2.7 slave-win
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.14-py2.6 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.14-py2.6 slave-ubuntu32
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.14-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.14-py2.7 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.14-py2.7 slave-ubuntu32
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.14-py2.7 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.4 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.4 slave-ubuntu32
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.4 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.5 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.5 slave-ubuntu32
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.5 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.6 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.6 slave-ubuntu32
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0_win-py2.4 slave-win
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0_win-py2.5 slave-win
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0_win-py2.6 slave-win
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.1-py2.5 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.1-py2.5 slave-ubuntu32
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.1-py2.5 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.1-py2.6 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.1-py2.6 slave-ubuntu32
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.1-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.1_win-py2.5 slave-win
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.1_win-py2.6 slave-win
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-py2.5 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-py2.5 slave-ubuntu32
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-py2.5 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-py2.6 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-py2.6 slave-ubuntu32
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit_win-py2.5 slave-win
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit_win-py2.6 slave-win
       Zope-2.10 Python-2.4.6 : Linux
       Zope-2.11 Python-2.4.6 : Linux
       Zope-2.12 Python-2.6.6 : Linux
       Zope-2.12-alltests Python-2.6.6 : Linux
       Zope-2.13 Python-2.6.6 : Linux
       Zope-2.13-alltests Python-2.6.6 : Linux
       Zope-trunk Python-2.6.6 : Linux
       Zope-trunk-alltests Python-2.6.6 : Linux
       winbot / ZODB_dev py_254_win32
       winbot / ZODB_dev py_265_win32
       winbot / ZODB_dev py_265_win64
       winbot / ZODB_dev py_270_win32
       winbot / ZODB_dev py_270_win64
       winbot / ztk_10 py_254_win32
       winbot / ztk_10 py_265_win32
       winbot / ztk_10 py_265_win64
       winbot / ztk_11 py_254_win32
       winbot / ztk_11 py_265_win32
       winbot / ztk_11 py_265_win64
       winbot / ztk_11 py_270_win32
       winbot / ztk_11 py_270_win64
       winbot / ztk_dev py_254_win32
       winbot / ztk_dev py_265_win32
       winbot / ztk_dev py_265_win64
       winbot / ztk_dev py_270_win32
       winbot 

Re: [Zope-dev] zope-tests - OK: 77

2011-06-22 Thread Lennart Regebro
Whohoo! Amesome work all bugfixers!

On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 07:00, Zope tests summarizer nore...@zope.org wrote:
 This is the summary for test reports received on the
 zope-tests list between 2011-06-20 00:00:00 UTC and 2011-06-21 00:00:00 UTC:

 See the footnotes for test reports of unsuccessful builds.

 An up-to date view of the builders is also available in our
 buildbot documentation:
 http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/process/buildbots.html#the-nightly-builds

 Reports received
 

       Bluebream / Python2.4.6 64bit linux
       Bluebream / Python2.5.5 64bit linux
       Bluebream / Python2.6.5 64bit linux
       ZTK 1.0 / Python2.4.6 Linux 64bit
       ZTK 1.0 / Python2.5.5 Linux 64bit
       ZTK 1.0 / Python2.6.5 Linux 64bit
       ZTK 1.0dev / Python2.4.6 Linux 64bit
       ZTK 1.0dev / Python2.5.5 Linux 64bit
       ZTK 1.0dev / Python2.6.5 Linux 64bit
       Zope 3.4 KGS / Python2.4.6 64bit linux
       Zope 3.4 KGS / Python2.5.5 64bit linux
       Zope 3.4 Known Good Set / py2.4-32bit-linux
       Zope 3.4 Known Good Set / py2.4-64bit-linux
       Zope 3.4 Known Good Set / py2.5-32bit-linux
       Zope 3.4 Known Good Set / py2.5-64bit-linux
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.12-py2.6 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.12-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.12-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.13-py2.6 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.13-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.13-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.13-py2.7 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.13-py2.7 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.13-py2.7 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.14-py2.6 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.14-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.14-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.14-py2.7 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.14-py2.7 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zope2.14-py2.7 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.4 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.4 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.4 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.5 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.5 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.5 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.6 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.0-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.1-py2.5 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.1-py2.5 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.1-py2.5 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.1-py2.6 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.1-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-1.1-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-py2.5 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-py2.5 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-py2.5 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-py2.6 slave-osx
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope Buildbot / zopetoolkit-py2.6 slave-ubuntu64
       Zope-2.10 Python-2.4.6 : Linux
       Zope-2.11 Python-2.4.6 : Linux
       Zope-2.12 Python-2.6.6 : Linux
       Zope-2.12-alltests Python-2.6.6 : Linux
       Zope-2.13 Python-2.6.6 : Linux
       Zope-2.13-alltests Python-2.6.6 : Linux
       Zope-trunk Python-2.6.6 : Linux
       Zope-trunk-alltests Python-2.6.6 : Linux
       winbot / ZODB_dev py_254_win32
       winbot / ZODB_dev py_265_win32
       winbot / ZODB_dev py_265_win64
       winbot / ZODB_dev py_270_win32
       winbot / ZODB_dev py_270_win64
       winbot / ztk_10 py_254_win32
       winbot / ztk_10 py_265_win32
       winbot / ztk_10 py_265_win64
       winbot / ztk_11 py_254_win32
       winbot / ztk_11 py_265_win32
       winbot / ztk_11 py_265_win64
       winbot / ztk_11 py_270_win32
       winbot / ztk_11 py_270_win64
       winbot / ztk_dev py_254_win32
       winbot / ztk_dev py_265_win32
       winbot / ztk_dev py_265_win64
       winbot / ztk_dev py_270_win32
       winbot / ztk_dev py_270_win64

 Non-OK results
 --

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Re: [Zope-dev] beta.zope.org (www.zope.org relaunch project)

2011-05-13 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 12:12, Charlie Clark
charlie.cl...@clark-consulting.eu wrote:
 One thing that I think is missing on the resource page is a Products
 overview - PyPI isn't really suitable for someone wanting to see whether
 Zope (2) is suitable for them and despite what we now think about how to
 extend Zope, the Products do provide off-the shelf solutions for many
 situations; something that as developers we easily overlook.

That's not really Products but full applications, like Plone and
ERP5 etc. It might be an idea to have a listing for that, but that's
not really to determine if Zope is suitable, but to brag of the nice
solutions built with Zope. :-)

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] beta.zope.org (www.zope.org relaunch project)

2011-05-10 Thread Lennart Regebro
Oh! Nice!

IMO you can switch now. It's already a vast improvement, constructive
feedback and changes might improve it more, but it doesn't need to be
perfect before it's launched, just better. And it is.

On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 06:55, Andreas Jung li...@zopyx.com wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Hi there,

 I am happy to announce that we have made progress
 with the zope.org relaunch project. The first public
 version of the new site is now available under

 http://beta.zope.org

 The basic idea behind the project is:

  - a minimalistic www.zope.org site giving a short
   overview about what Zope is - including all
   related app servers, CMSes, frameworks etc.
   which links to the related project sites (micro-site
   approach)

  - no more member contents on www.zope.org

  - the current www.zope.org will be stripped down
   to the current member contents and stuff that
   has to be preserved. www.zope.org will be
   renamed to old.zope.org later

 Constructive criticism and feedback is welcome _now_.

 I hope that we can fix the outstanding issues and integrate
 further feedback over the next few week in order to roll
 out the new site in the first half of June (2011 of course).

 Many thanks to my team (doing the real work):

 - - Michael Haubenwaller
 - - Kai Mertens
 - - Johannes Raggam

 Andreas Jung
 Zope Foundation

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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Re: [Zope-dev] beta.zope.org (www.zope.org relaunch project)

2011-05-10 Thread Lennart Regebro
I think http://beta.zope.org/the-world-of-zope does a good job.

On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 07:28, Alex Clark acl...@aclark.net wrote:
 Hi,

 On 5/10/11 12:55 AM, Andreas Jung wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Hi there,

 I am happy to announce that we have made progress
 with the zope.org relaunch project. The first public
 version of the new site is now available under

 http://beta.zope.org

 The basic idea behind the project is:

   - a minimalistic www.zope.org site giving a short
     overview about what Zope is - including all
     related app servers, CMSes, frameworks etc.
     which links to the related project sites (micro-site
     approach)

   - no more member contents on www.zope.org

   - the current www.zope.org will be stripped down
     to the current member contents and stuff that
     has to be preserved. www.zope.org will be
     renamed to old.zope.org later

 Constructive criticism and feedback is welcome _now_.


 Looks great, well done all! Thanks for putting in the effort. My one
 (very minor) nit would be that we try to over-emphasize and over-clarify
 what Zope is (and is not), anywhere and everywhere possible.

 And by that, I mean:

 - Zope is: a brand, a term for any Zope-related technology, a general
 term. It no longer refers to anything specific. It is all-encompassing.

 - Zope 2 is the original web application server.

 - Bluebream is the former-Zope 3 web application server.

 - ZTK is a set of re-usable libraries.


 And so on.


 Alex









 I hope that we can fix the outstanding issues and integrate
 further feedback over the next few week in order to roll
 out the new site in the first half of June (2011 of course).

 Many thanks to my team (doing the real work):

 - - Michael Haubenwaller
 - - Kai Mertens
 - - Johannes Raggam

 Andreas Jung
 Zope Foundation

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Re: [Zope-dev] beta.zope.org (www.zope.org relaunch project)

2011-05-10 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 09:15, Jens Vagelpohl j...@dataflake.org wrote:
 I strongly disagree on the term Zope 2. Now is a great time to finally
 stop the Zope2/3 confusion: Kill that name and start using a more
 sensible name, such as the Zope application server.

Yup. That or just Zope. That is what people mean when they say Zope anyway.

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Porting to Python 3: http://python3porting.com/
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Re: [Zope-dev] Please, if you port to Python 3, port to 23

2011-05-04 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 17:36, Jim Fulton j...@zope.com wrote:
 If we decide to port zope.org-based projects to Python 3, please
 please please, port them to Python 23 rather than relying on 2to3 (or
 3to2).  That is, update the code to work with both Python 2 and Python
 3.  Relying on 2to3 (or 3to2) is a headache for anyone who uses a
 develop installation of a package. (It's also rather annoying for
 someone installing a 2to3-based project in Python 3.)

I'm not sure exactly what using a develop installation means or what
headaches it causes, but, for many projects supporting Python 2 and
Python 3 without 2to3 is going to require massive changes and/or
dropping Python 2.5 support. That has to be considered.

 I found 2to3 somewhat helpful in beginning the process of getting
 buildout working with Python 3, but then worked the source into a form
 that works with both Python versions. The code is uglier, but not as
 ugly as incporating 2to3 in the development workflow.

Well, incorporating 2to3 into the buildout development workflow would
have been nearly impossible, but buildout is a special case.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?

2011-04-05 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 07:56, Chris McDonough chr...@plope.com wrote:
 On Thu, 2011-03-17 at 14:57 -0400, Lennart Regebro wrote:
 I'm still in Atlanta, and Arc Riley asked for a Zope person to
 possibly mentor some zope.* project for Python Software Foundation
 this year. They probably want to get more of the Zope Toolkit ported
 to Python 3. I forwarded the roadmap to him, so anyone who wants to
 mentor, that would be great.

 I've said I'm available to ask questions about porting and help from a
 technical point of view, but I suck at the mentoring part, so somebody
 else that does that is needed.

 Mail him at arcri...@gmail.com if interested.

 Did this particular effort get to the place where there are students and
 mentors lined up to do ZTK porting?

No, it got to the pace where I'm supposed to set up a team page on a Wiki.
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Re: [Zope-dev] Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?

2011-04-05 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 11:57, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 07:56, Chris McDonough chr...@plope.com wrote:
 Did this particular effort get to the place where there are students and
 mentors lined up to do ZTK porting?

 No, it got to the pace where I'm supposed to set up a team page on a Wiki.

Done: http://wiki.zope.org/gsoc/SummerOfCode2011
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Re: [Zope-dev] Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?

2011-03-21 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 01:06, Stephan Richter
srich...@cosmos.phy.tufts.edu wrote:
 On Saturday, March 19, 2011, Lennart Regebro wrote:
 Getting ZCA/ZTK to run on PyPy is probably easier, and actually more
 useful. Maybe someone would want to mentor that?

 While I would mentor someone wanting to do such a project, I would be much
 more interested in seeing a working WebOb to zope.publisher bridge. I know
 Jim(?) has done some initial work on that. I think it would make an
 interesting PSF project, since it encourages more reusability across the
 Python Web dev community.

 So I'll sign up as a Zope team member.

Cool. But it turns out we need three to make a team (see
https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dHh3WFNGYzkyWWE0ZjM1eFFoUUVGWmc6MQ),
and we only really have one. :-) I guess I could take a bullet for the
team too, but that still makes only two. Maybe next year. :-)

//Lennart
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[Zope-dev] Non-ZCML config for ZCA. (Was: Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?)

2011-03-21 Thread Lennart Regebro
I haven't read through the whole discussion in detail, so I'm sure I
repeat some of what has been said already, but here is my point of
view.

1. Yes, Grok is pretty implicit. If it's soo implecit is a matter of
taste, but much of the implicitness makes sense. You typically do have
a model and a view and a template, and the model and view are
typically in one module, and has a name similar to the template. That
implicitness however only makes sense in the specific context of web
applications. There is no reasonably way to have that implicitness
with components and adapters. So a configuration for the ZCA in
general can't be implicit.

2. That doesn't mean we can't use grok-style configuration though.

3. Although Python 3 means we can't. We'll have to use decorators.

4. zope.interface already does, and zope.component will as well, once
it's ported. That means we get things like:

class IMyFace(Interface):
whatevah

class IMyFeet(Interface):
something

@implementer(IMyFace)
class MyFace(object):
   yeahyeah

@adapter(IMyFace, IMyFeet)
class FootInMouth(object):
   def __init__(self, mouth, foot):
   pass

The @adapter decorator so far only handles functions, but will be
extended to classes once we port zope.component. I think also adapter
today will only mark the object as adapts(...) does, but you will
still use zcml to register the adapter. So probably we still need
@adapter (as it already exists) and also another decorator (say
@adapt() maybe?) that will both mark the class and register it in the
registry, and hence do the same as the adapter ... / directive does
today.

Then we have subscriber, utility, resource and view directives.
There's no particular reason I know of that means they couldn't be
class decorators as well.

That takes care of most of the configuration needed for the ZCA
itself. How to deal with the rest probably gets more obvious once
we've done this.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] Non-ZCML config for ZCA. (Was: Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?)

2011-03-21 Thread Lennart Regebro
Also, the decorators will always return the original component,
meaning they can easily be used as post-config:

@adapter(IMyFace, IMyFeet)
class FootInMouth(object):
...

Will mark the class as an adapter, but not register it.

@adapt(IMyFace, IMyFeet)
class FootInMouth(object):
...

Will mark and register.

@adapter(IMyFace, IMyFeet)
class FootInMouht(object):
...

adapt(FootInMouth)()

Will register a previously marked adapter, and

adapt(FootInMouth)(IMyFace, IMyFeet)

Will mark and register. This means you can, if you want, still have
the interfaces in one file, the implementations in one file, and the
registrations separately (say, configure.py), thereby getting the same
separation as you had with interfaces.py, components.py and
configure.zcml. Your package just needs to *not* import the
configure.py file.



On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 12:47, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
 I haven't read through the whole discussion in detail, so I'm sure I
 repeat some of what has been said already, but here is my point of
 view.

 1. Yes, Grok is pretty implicit. If it's soo implecit is a matter of
 taste, but much of the implicitness makes sense. You typically do have
 a model and a view and a template, and the model and view are
 typically in one module, and has a name similar to the template. That
 implicitness however only makes sense in the specific context of web
 applications. There is no reasonably way to have that implicitness
 with components and adapters. So a configuration for the ZCA in
 general can't be implicit.

 2. That doesn't mean we can't use grok-style configuration though.

 3. Although Python 3 means we can't. We'll have to use decorators.

 4. zope.interface already does, and zope.component will as well, once
 it's ported. That means we get things like:

 class IMyFace(Interface):
    whatevah

 class IMyFeet(Interface):
    something

 @implementer(IMyFace)
 class MyFace(object):
   yeahyeah

 @adapter(IMyFace, IMyFeet)
 class FootInMouth(object):
   def __init__(self, mouth, foot):
       pass

 The @adapter decorator so far only handles functions, but will be
 extended to classes once we port zope.component. I think also adapter
 today will only mark the object as adapts(...) does, but you will
 still use zcml to register the adapter. So probably we still need
 @adapter (as it already exists) and also another decorator (say
 @adapt() maybe?) that will both mark the class and register it in the
 registry, and hence do the same as the adapter ... / directive does
 today.

 Then we have subscriber, utility, resource and view directives.
 There's no particular reason I know of that means they couldn't be
 class decorators as well.

 That takes care of most of the configuration needed for the ZCA
 itself. How to deal with the rest probably gets more obvious once
 we've done this.

 //Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?

2011-03-21 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 13:28, Stephan Richter
srich...@cosmos.phy.tufts.edu wrote:
 On Monday, March 21, 2011, Lennart Regebro wrote:
  So I'll sign up as a Zope team member.

 Cool. But it turns out we need three to make a team (see
 https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dHh3WFNGYzkyWWE0ZjM1eFFoUU
 VGWmc6MQ), and we only really have one. :-) I guess I could take a bullet
 for the team too, but that still makes only two. Maybe next year. :-)

 Jim said he would be willing to mentor someone for the right project. That
 would make us three.

Ah, OK. I'll sign up then.
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Re: [Zope-dev] Non-ZCML config for ZCA. (Was: Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?)

2011-03-21 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 14:17, Martijn Faassen faas...@startifact.com wrote:
 Anyway, Grok's configuration is dependent on the rules you give it, so
 it's possible to have a completely explicit set of directives with no
 implicit fallback to default values whatsoever. Martian supports that
 scenario right now.

Sure, but I'm of course referring to how it behaves by default,
including the associations made by the grokking process.
I think that makes sense in a webapp, but not otherwise, and we should
at least as a start concentrate on the generic component architecture
case.

 For Martian, Python 3 support is mostly an issue of making class
 directives work as class decorators.

And the same goes for zope.component support, of course.

With martian, the registration is then done by the grokking process,
but I think decorators would be a process that is more acceptable to
the Python world in general. Instances does indeed require something
else than decorators, I hadn't thought of that, that's a drawback.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] Non-ZCML config for ZCA. (Was: Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?)

2011-03-21 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 15:28, Jim Fulton j...@zope.com wrote:
 This might be OK for @implements and maybe @adapts, which describe
 behavior, but start feeling wonky to me for something like: @utility.

Well, the wonkyness comes from @utility *not* being inherited, while
@implements would be. That could be confusing.

It wold be possible to let @utility be inherited if it's done by
scanning, though. But under what name in that case? I think that
possibly would be even *more* confusing.

It may be that decorators isn't the right answer for registration. In
that case scanning is an option, unless we simply go for straight
imperative configuration.

@implementer(IMyFace)
@adapter(IMyFoot)
class FootInFace(object):
 def __init__(self, foot, face)
self.foot = foot
self.face = face

component.utility(FootInFace())

It's easy and clear, but has the drawback of encouraging that
registration is done on import time, while scanning separates the
registration from the definition. I'm not sure how important that is.

On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 15:36, Martijn Faassen faas...@startifact.com wrote:
 Do we really care about the Python world in general? Is that relevant
 to the discussion? Can't we just talk about what we care about? The
 Python world in general uses metaclasses for this kind of stuff, which
 relies on base classes too, by the way.

Yeah, but that's to a large extent because class decorators still are
relatively new. You can't use them if you need to support Python 2.5.

 You'll still need a module importing process, as I sketched out
 elsewhere if you use class decorators, to have the class decorators
 kick in at all for modules you don't need to import otherwise.

Is that a problem? In the end, no matter what you do, the module needs
to be imported. :-) That a utility doesn't get registered unless you
import a specific module somewhere in the app doesn't seem like a
problem to me.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?

2011-03-19 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 22:08, Jim Fulton j...@zope.com wrote:
 On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm still in Atlanta, and Arc Riley asked for a Zope person to
 possibly mentor some zope.* project for Python Software Foundation
 this year. They probably want to get more of the Zope Toolkit ported
 to Python 3. I forwarded the roadmap to him, so anyone who wants to
 mentor, that would be great.

 I hope that isn't what they want. :)

 His stated goal for GSOC was to bring people into the community. I
 can't think of many better ways to turn someone off than to ask them
 to port something from Py2 to Py3.

Well, that's what he said. But in any case it might be a good idea if
Zope people joined the PSF GSoC project to vote and comment on any
zope related applications if those show up. I will, even though I
refuse to be a mentor, since I suck at it.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?

2011-03-19 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 13:07, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 22:08, Jim Fulton j...@zope.com wrote:
 On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm still in Atlanta, and Arc Riley asked for a Zope person to
 possibly mentor some zope.* project for Python Software Foundation
 this year. They probably want to get more of the Zope Toolkit ported
 to Python 3. I forwarded the roadmap to him, so anyone who wants to
 mentor, that would be great.

 I hope that isn't what they want. :)

 His stated goal for GSOC was to bring people into the community. I
 can't think of many better ways to turn someone off than to ask them
 to port something from Py2 to Py3.

 Well, that's what he said. But in any case it might be a good idea if
 Zope people joined the PSF GSoC project to vote and comment on any
 zope related applications if those show up. I will, even though I
 refuse to be a mentor, since I suck at it.

Ah, actually, this year you put together teams. So in this case we
need a Zope team.  So if nobody shows interest we don't have a team,
and we won't do anything.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?

2011-03-19 Thread Lennart Regebro
Getting ZCA/ZTK to run on PyPy is probably easier, and actually more
useful. Maybe someone would want to mentor that?

On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 22:08, Jim Fulton j...@zope.com wrote:
 On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm still in Atlanta, and Arc Riley asked for a Zope person to
 possibly mentor some zope.* project for Python Software Foundation
 this year. They probably want to get more of the Zope Toolkit ported
 to Python 3. I forwarded the roadmap to him, so anyone who wants to
 mentor, that would be great.

 I hope that isn't what they want. :)

 His stated goal for GSOC was to bring people into the community. I
 can't think of many better ways to turn someone off than to ask them
 to port something from Py2 to Py3.

 Jim

 --
 Jim Fulton
 http://www.linkedin.com/in/jimfulton

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[Zope-dev] Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?

2011-03-17 Thread Lennart Regebro
I'm still in Atlanta, and Arc Riley asked for a Zope person to
possibly mentor some zope.* project for Python Software Foundation
this year. They probably want to get more of the Zope Toolkit ported
to Python 3. I forwarded the roadmap to him, so anyone who wants to
mentor, that would be great.

I've said I'm available to ask questions about porting and help from a
technical point of view, but I suck at the mentoring part, so somebody
else that does that is needed.

Mail him at arcri...@gmail.com if interested.


//Lennart
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[Zope-dev] PyCon Zope sprint Python 3 progress report / roadmap.

2011-03-15 Thread Lennart Regebro
We are here in Atlanta porting Zope stuff, and I've updated the
roadmap, so I thought I'd post it on zope-dev and python-porting, so
people know things are happening, and that they should have been here,
because PyCon was awesome!

So yesterday we've finished the porting of some low-hanging fruits,
and they are now just hanging around waiting for releases. The
complete roadmap for zope.component porting is here:


Done and released:
==

setuptools (ie distribute)
zope.interface
zope.event
zope.exceptions
zope.testrunner


Low hanging fruit:
==

zope.i18nmessageid: Done - not released
   setuptools - Done
TODO: Trunk supports Python 3, not yet released.

zope.hookable: Done - not released
   setuptools - Done
   zope.testing - [test] Done, not released
TODO: Trunk supports Python 3, not yet released.

zope.proxy: Done - not released
   setuptools - Done
   zope.interface - Done
TODO: Trunk supports Python 3, not yet released.

zope.testing: Done - not released
   setuptools - Done
   zope.interface - Done
   zope.exceptions - Done
TODO: Trunk supports Python 3, not yet released.

zope.testrunnner: Done
   setuptools - Done
   zope.interface - Done
   zope.exceptions - Done
   zope.testing - [test] Done, not released
TODO: Some cleanup needed after releasing zope.testing for Python 3.

Mid hanging fruit:
==

zope.configuration:
   setuptools - Done
   zope.interface - Done
   zope.i18nmessageid -  Done, not released
   zope.schema

transaction:
   zope.interface - Done

zc.lockfile:
   setuptools - Done

ZConfig:
   None

zdaemon:
   None

manuel:
   setuptools - Done
   zope.testrunner - Done, waiting for zope.testing.
   zope.testing - [test] Done, not released

High hanging fruit:
===
zc.buildout: In Progress
   setuptools - Done
   zope.testing - [test] Done, not released

zope.component:
   setuptools - Done
   zope.interface - Done
   zope.event - Done
   zope.testing - [test] Done, not released
   zope.testrunner - [test] Almost done, waiting for zope.testing.
   zope.hookable - [hook] [test] Done, not released
   zope.i18nmessageid - [zcml] Done, not released
   zope.proxy - [security]
   zope.location - [security] (Note semi-circular dependency)
   zope.security - [security] (Note semi-circular dependency)
   zope.configuration - [zcml]
   ZODB3 - [persistentregistry] [test]
COMMENT: Loads of tests, mostly doctests means this is a pain to port. Also
there is loads of magic which also may be a pain to port. Lastly, to run all
the tests, we need a lot of extra modules, and some of those require
zope.component. So we need to run only some tests under Python 3, and add
tests once we port the other modules.


zope.component dependencies
===

Optional packages for zope.component. Should be ported directly after
zope.component. I don't know how difficult these are to port.

zope.schema:
   setuptools - Done
   zope.interface - Done
   zope.event - Done
   zope.testing - [test] Done, not released
   z3c.recipe.sphinxdoc - [docs]
COMMENT: Sphinx isn't ported yet. That's only for docs though, so no biggie.
Possibly we'll have to avoid zc.buildout because of that.

zope.location:
   setuptools - Done
   zope.interface - Done
   zope.proxy
   zope.schema
   zope.component - (Note semi-circular dependency)

zope.security: (Uses a c-module)
   setuptools - Done
   zope.interface - Done
   zope.i18nmessageid -  Done, not released
   zope.proxy
   zope.component - (Note semi-circular dependency)
   zope.location
   zope.schema
   zope.testing - [test] Done, not released

ZODB3:
   zope.event - Done
   zope.interface - Done
   transaction
   zc.lockfile
   ZConfig
   zdaemon
   zope.testing - [test] Done, not released
   manuel - [test]
COMMENT: Once zope.testing and zc.buildout are done, merging Martins work
might not be too painful.
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Re: [Zope-dev] string exceptions

2011-02-27 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 12:05, Laurence Rowe l...@lrowe.co.uk wrote:
 I take that back, that documentation is incorrect, they have indeed
 stopped working.

You are allowed to catch them, but not raise them. This is so you can
have code that runs on old Pythons with old libraries still.

But in any case I think we safely can move them to ordinary exceptions.
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Re: [Zope-dev] Sprints at PyCon

2011-02-17 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 16:46, Jim Fulton j...@zope.com wrote:
 I was planning to work on getting buildout woring with Python 3 (if it
 isn't done by then).

Awesome! I'll make sure to get up to speed on what the issues was with
my last attempt, because I forgot as usual.

On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Baiju M baiju.m.m...@gmail.com wrote:
 1. Port ZTK to Python 3

Excellent!

More people interested in this are welcome, I made a roadmap recently,
there are tasks that are both simple and very difficult on that one,
we can find work for anyone interested. :-)

Glad to see so many signing up already, this will be fun!

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] PyPy 1.4.1 and the ZTK

2010-12-26 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 15:24, Martijn Faassen faas...@startifact.com wrote:
 Hi there,

 I thought it'd be interesting to note that PyPy 1.4.1 (with JIT) now
 works out of the box with buildout

Awesome!
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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3 porting sprint?

2010-12-02 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 07:26, Ross Patterson m...@rpatterson.net wrote:
 Who would be interested in a sprint, when, where and how?

 I'd be interested in remote sprinting.  I'm available now, FWIW.

OK, so it's me and you then. :-)
Let's talk in January about doing something and staying online at the
same time during some specified period.
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Re: [Zope-dev] I want some Python 3 C coding style guidance.

2010-11-30 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 11:37, Wichert Akkerman wich...@wiggy.net wrote:
 On 11/25/10 11:31 , Lennart Regebro wrote:
 Which style do you prefer? I'll make zope.hookable, zope.i18nmessage
 and zope.proxy use the same style if we can agree on one.

 The second. #ifdefs in code make code hard to follow and tend to lead to
 problems. FWIW the Linux kernel tree has a similar policy: they hide all
 differences behind macros and helper functions.

OK, only one voice, but it agrees with me, so I'll go for this. Thanks!

//Lennart
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[Zope-dev] I want some Python 3 C coding style guidance.

2010-11-25 Thread Lennart Regebro
I've been porting some zope.* modules that have C-extensions to Python
3, and with the C-preprocessor you have so many possibilities that I
get all confused. So I'd like some opinions. Or onions. Or something.


The big issue is the module definition, which is quite different in
Python 2 and Python 3. What I ended up with in zope.proxy was
something like this:

--

#if PY_MAJOR_VERSION = 3
  static struct PyModuleDef moduledef = {
PyModuleDef_HEAD_INIT,
_zope_proxy_proxy, /* m_name */
module___doc__,  /* m_doc */
-1,  /* m_size */
module_functions,/* m_methods */
NULL,/* m_reload */
NULL,/* m_traverse */
NULL,/* m_clear */
NULL,/* m_free */
  };
#endif

static PyObject *
moduleinit(void)
{
PyObject *m;

#if PY_MAJOR_VERSION = 3
m = PyModule_Create(moduledef);
#else
m = Py_InitModule3(_zope_proxy_proxy,
module_functions, module___doc__);
#endif

if (m == NULL)
return NULL;

if (empty_tuple == NULL)
empty_tuple = PyTuple_New(0);

ProxyType.tp_free = _PyObject_GC_Del;

if (PyType_Ready(ProxyType)  0)
return NULL;

Py_INCREF(ProxyType);
PyModule_AddObject(m, ProxyBase, (PyObject *)ProxyType);

if (api_object == NULL) {
api_object = PyCObject_FromVoidPtr(wrapper_capi, NULL);
if (api_object == NULL)
return NULL;
}
Py_INCREF(api_object);
PyModule_AddObject(m, _CAPI, api_object);

  return m;
}

#if PY_MAJOR_VERSION  3
PyMODINIT_FUNC
init_zope_proxy_proxy(void)
{
moduleinit();
}
#else
PyMODINIT_FUNC
PyInit__zope_proxy_proxy(void)
{
return moduleinit();
}
#endif

--

As you see, there are loads of #if PY_MAJOR_VERSION = 3 in there. And
three methods (I took this from Martin v Löwis work on zope.interface)
for the module init, as they have different profiles and names in
Python 2 and Python3.
This may be seen as quite messy, and many other compatibility issues
between 2 and 3 can be handled by defining macros and using #ifndefs.
So why not do the same for the module initialization? Said and done.
This is from zope.hookable:

--

#if PY_MAJOR_VERSION = 3
#define MOD_ERROR_VAL NULL
#define MOD_SUCCESS_VAL(val) val
#define MOD_INIT(name) PyMODINIT_FUNC PyInit_##name(void)
#define MOD_DEF(ob, name, doc, methods) \
static struct PyModuleDef moduledef = { \
PyModuleDef_HEAD_INIT, name, doc, -1, methods, }; \
ob = PyModule_Create(moduledef);
#else
#define MOD_ERROR_VAL
#define MOD_SUCCESS_VAL(val)
#define MOD_INIT(name) void init##name(void)
#define MOD_DEF(ob, name, doc, methods) \
ob = Py_InitModule3(name, methods, doc);
#endif

MOD_INIT(_zope_hookable)
{
PyObject *m;

hookabletype.tp_new = PyType_GenericNew;
hookabletype.tp_free = _PyObject_GC_Del;

if (PyType_Ready(hookabletype)  0)
return MOD_ERROR_VAL;

MOD_DEF(m, _zope_hookable,
Provide an efficient implementation for hookable objects,
module_methods)

if (m == NULL) return MOD_ERROR_VAL;

if (PyModule_AddObject(m, hookable, \
(PyObject *)hookabletype)  0)
return MOD_ERROR_VAL;

return MOD_SUCCESS_VAL(m);
}

--

As you see, there is one block of macro definitions in the start, and
then just one function at the bottom. Benefits are that if you have
many C-extensions you can extract the macro definitions to a separate
file. Drawbacks are that MOD_INIT looks like a function, when it is in
fact a function definition. But I don't know, maybe C-programmers are
used to that sort of thing. :-) Also, it's far from complete, MOD_DEF
doesn't support the new module_reload and module_traverse things for
example, bt maybe that's fixable.

Which style do you prefer? I'll make zope.hookable, zope.i18nmessage
and zope.proxy use the same style if we can agree on one.

//Lennart
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[Zope-dev] Zope 3 porting sprint?

2010-11-25 Thread Lennart Regebro
OK, I've run out of steam for this run of trying to port zc.buildout
to Python 3. I got pretty far, in fact. Of course, if we wait too
long, somebody will make big changes, and all will be messy and the
branch will rot and we might as well start over. :-) So I want to
avoid that, and get some help on zope.proxy and zc.buildout to finish
the ports.

The best way to do this is a sprint. And there are loads of small
tasks to do as well, such as test zope.hookable and zope.i18nmessage
on Plone and ZTK to make sure nothing breaks (even though each modules
tests pass), merge and release it. Also finish the Python 3 port of
zope.testing/zope.testrunner. All these are small and fairly easy
tasks that I'm sure somebody else interested could do.

I hope to attend PyCon, so that would be an option. Otherwise we have
to do an online sprint, which with irc and skype/google phone should
be doable. I'd havetime for that in January, I think.

Of course, if people want to come to Krakow for a sprint I would be
happy host it. But you'd have to pay for plane tickets yourself. And
hotels, unless you want to sleep on my floor. :-)

Who would be interested in a sprint, when, where and how?

--
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Telephone: +48 691 268 328
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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope vs. Python 3 porting roadmap

2010-11-24 Thread Lennart Regebro
Oh, and zc.buildout also exposes bugs in Distribute under Python 3, so
a new version of Distribute is needed before this can be finished. But
that could probably happen quite fast after I get most of the
zc.buildout tests running.
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[Zope-dev] zope.proxy explanation?

2010-11-20 Thread Lennart Regebro
I'm trying to port zope.proxy to Python 3, and most tests seem to
work, but investigating those two who doesn't is confusing. The first
one is the test to prevent pickling. This works under Python 2, but as
I understand it it should work by implementing a __reduce__ function
that throws an exception. But that method is never called under Python
2. Instead a pickling error is thrown, but this is because the pickler
has no special knowledge about proxies, and then tries to find
__reduce__ and fails. Apparently the __reduce__of the proxy isn't
found, weirdly enough.

In Python 3, the base object now *has* __reduce__, so it *is* found
and used, so the test fails.

So there is something I'm missing here. It seems to be that two bugs
cancel each other out under Python 2, and under Python 3 they don't,
and the test fails.

//Lennart
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Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zope.i18nmessageid/branches/regebro-python3/src/zope/i18nmessageid/messages.txt Paper over different exception type raised under Python3.

2010-11-19 Thread Lennart Regebro
 Hmm, the tests failed for me without that change under Python 3.1, but
 pass with it:

Weird.

 How are you running the tests under Python3, BTW?

python3 setup.py test
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Re: [Zope-dev] Survey: most obscure errors

2010-11-08 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:00, Marius Gedminas mar...@gedmin.as wrote:
 What are the most obscure error conditions you've encountered while
 developing Zopeish[1] applications?

  [1] ZTK, Grok, Bluebream, the old Zope 3.x KGSes all qualify.

 I'm talking about situations where the error message/traceback are
 disconnected from the actual cause.

Late answer: The really obscure ones are when there *is no error
message*. Common in Plone (which may or may not be zopeish).
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Re: [Zope-dev] Class advisors in Python 3

2010-07-30 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 13:35, Hanno Schlichting ha...@hannosch.eu wrote:
 zope.interface contains 2to3 fixers to rewrite them to a class
 decorator syntax IIRC.

Actually, it's in zope.fixers. :) And it's only implements() -
@implementor i think. Adapts come with zope.component which isn't
ported to Python 3 yet, but the same thing should happen there, yes.

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Telephone: +33 661 58 14 64
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Re: [Zope-dev] zope.testing / zope.testrunner path forward:

2010-07-30 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 13:26, Jonathan Lange j...@mumak.net wrote:
 Just to be clear, is zope.testing 4.0.0 intended to work with Python 2?

Yes.
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[Zope-dev] I have loads of tests failing on zc.buildout on trunk

2010-07-22 Thread Lennart Regebro
Am I doing something wrong? I have a dedicated python 2.6, and run
python2.6 dev.py and then bin/test.

-- 
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Python, Zope, Plone blog: http://regebro.wordpress.com/
Telephone: +33 661 58 14 64
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Re: [Zope-dev] I have loads of tests failing on zc.buildout on trunk

2010-07-22 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 08:38, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
 Am I doing something wrong? I have a dedicated python 2.6, and run
 python2.6 dev.py and then bin/test.

I looked through the tests again, and some of the tests are clearly an
effect of using doctest instead of zope.testing.doctest, I recognize
that. I'll try again with zope.testing.doctest, so ignore this mail
for a couple of hourse. I'll be back. :-)
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Re: [Zope-dev] I have loads of tests failing on zc.buildout on trunk

2010-07-22 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 08:40, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 08:38, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
 Am I doing something wrong? I have a dedicated python 2.6, and run
 python2.6 dev.py and then bin/test.

 I looked through the tests again, and some of the tests are clearly an
 effect of using doctest instead of zope.testing.doctest, I recognize
 that. I'll try again with zope.testing.doctest, so ignore this mail
 for a couple of hourse. I'll be back. :-)

OK, I got that down to one error:

bootstrap.py: error: no such option: --setup-source

It seems the --setup-source option is gone? I can remove the test...
Then I can start updating the tests to using zope.testrunner and
doctest as well, that seems to be a couple of extra failing tests
there.

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Telephone: +33 661 58 14 64
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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Tests: 38 OK, 17 Failed, 1 Unknown

2010-07-22 Thread Lennart Regebro
Well, that was one failure less than yesterday, so at least the new
zope.testing release didn't make anything explode. I guess that's
because most have version pinning, but there you go. :-)

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 12:58, Zope Tests Summarizer
zope-te...@epy.co.at wrote:
 Summary of messages to the zope-tests list.
 Period Wed Jul 21 12:00:00 2010 UTC to Thu Jul 22 12:00:00 2010 UTC.
 There were 56 messages: 6 from Zope Tests, 1 from buildbot at 
 enfoldsystems.com, 4 from buildbot at pov.lt, 15 from buildbot at 
 winbot.zope.org, 13 from ccomb at free.fr, 17 from jdriessen at 
 thehealthagency.com.


 Test failures
 -

 Subject: FAILED : Bluebream / Python2.4.6 32bit linux
 From: ccomb at free.fr
 Date: Wed Jul 21 22:04:08 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017105.html

 Subject: FAILED : Bluebream / Python2.5.2 32bit linux
 From: ccomb at free.fr
 Date: Wed Jul 21 22:05:50 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017106.html

 Subject: FAILED : Bluebream / Python2.6.4 32bit linux
 From: ccomb at free.fr
 Date: Wed Jul 21 22:05:51 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017107.html

 Subject: FAILED : winbot / ztk_dev py_244_win32
 From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
 Date: Wed Jul 21 22:10:34 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017109.html

 Subject: FAILED : winbot / ztk_dev py_254_win32
 From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
 Date: Wed Jul 21 22:19:31 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017110.html

 Subject: FAILED : winbot / ztk_dev py_265_win32
 From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
 Date: Wed Jul 21 22:28:03 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017111.html

 Subject: FAILED : winbot / ztk_dev py_265_win64
 From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
 Date: Wed Jul 21 22:36:41 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017113.html

 Subject: FAILED : winbot / ztk_dev py_270_win32
 From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
 Date: Wed Jul 21 22:45:01 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017114.html

 Subject: FAILED : winbot / ztk_dev py_270_win64
 From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
 Date: Wed Jul 21 22:53:36 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017115.html

 Subject: FAILED : winbot / ztk_10 py_244_win32
 From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
 Date: Wed Jul 21 23:01:54 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017116.html

 Subject: FAILED : ZTK 1.0dev / Python2.4.6 Linux 32bit
 From: ccomb at free.fr
 Date: Wed Jul 21 23:46:31 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017120.html

 Subject: FAILED : ZTK 1.0dev / Python2.7.0 Linux 32bit
 From: ccomb at free.fr
 Date: Wed Jul 21 23:47:58 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017121.html

 Subject: FAILED : ZTK 1.0dev / Python2.6.4 Linux 32bit
 From: ccomb at free.fr
 Date: Wed Jul 21 23:48:20 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017122.html

 Subject: FAILED : ZTK 1.0dev / Python2.5.2 Linux 32bit
 From: ccomb at free.fr
 Date: Wed Jul 21 23:48:39 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017123.html

 Subject: FAILED : ZTK 1.0 / Python2.7.0 Linux 32bit
 From: ccomb at free.fr
 Date: Thu Jul 22 01:51:03 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017129.html

 Subject: FAILED : winbot / ZODB_dev py_270_win32
 From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
 Date: Thu Jul 22 03:12:19 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017133.html

 Subject: FAILED : winbot / ZODB_dev py_270_win64
 From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
 Date: Thu Jul 22 04:07:42 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017134.html


 Unknown
 ---

 Subject: [zodb-tests] buildbot failure in Enfold Systems on 
 zodb-trunk-python-2.6-maestro
 From: buildbot at enfoldsystems.com
 Date: Thu Jul 22 04:53:32 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017135.html


 Tests passed OK
 ---

 Subject: OK : Zope Buildbot / zope2 slave-ubuntu64
 From: jdriessen at thehealthagency.com
 Date: Wed Jul 21 10:54:41 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017094.html

 Subject: OK : Zope Buildbot / zope2 slave-ubuntu32
 From: jdriessen at thehealthagency.com
 Date: Wed Jul 21 10:54:48 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017095.html

 Subject: OK : Zope Buildbot / zope2 slave-osx
 From: jdriessen at thehealthagency.com
 Date: Wed Jul 21 10:54:54 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017096.html

 Subject: OK : Zope 3.4 Known Good Set / py2.4-64bit-linux
 From: buildbot at pov.lt
 Date: Wed Jul 21 21:08:38 EDT 2010
 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-July/017097.html

 Subject: OK : Zope 3.4 Known Good Set / py2.4-32bit-linux
 From: 

[Zope-dev] zope.hookable ported to Python 3

2010-07-21 Thread Lennart Regebro
I've ported zope.hookable too, but I don't need it until it's time to
port zope.component (and I think the same goes for zope,security which
I think is next if I remember correctly), so I'm not merging the
branch yet. It's full if ugly Python 3 hacks, as it's a c-extension.
Feel free to take a look and complain if you you like. :-)

http://svn.zope.org/zope.hookable/branches/regebro-python3/

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Re: [Zope-dev] zope.testing / zope.testrunner path forward:

2010-07-21 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 06:28, Christian Theune c...@gocept.com wrote:
 I myself prefer having more releases. I like Marius' idea: 3.10 would be
 good for removing the test runner then 4.0 can be Py3 compatibility.

OK, I'll merge and release 3.10 today or tomorrow or so.

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Re: [Zope-dev] zope.testing / zope.testrunner path forward:

2010-07-21 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 23:57, Marius Gedminas mar...@gedmin.as wrote:
 1. Should there be BBB imports of zope.testrunner into zope.testing?
 We can do that to get a longer deprecation period, a couple of months
 isn't very long).

 *shrug*

Nobody said YES! and since it actually requires that zope.testing
depends on zope.testrunner to be pracically useful, I think we'll skip
it.

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Re: [Zope-dev] zope.testing / zope.testrunner path forward:

2010-07-21 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 15:06, Jim Fulton j...@zope.com wrote:
 Do whatever is easiest for you.  One option would be to release as
 eggs for Python 3 only.  That way, you shouldn't be affecting Python 2
 users.

I've released 3.10.0 now, and will let that simmer a while. I'm on
Europython so please mail me if something breaks so I see it.

4.0.0 is ready, but I'll wait with releasing it for a week at least, I
only need it to work on my porting of zc.buildout, and I don't need it
uploaded to PyPI. :-)

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[Zope-dev] zope.testing / zope.testrunner path forward:

2010-07-20 Thread Lennart Regebro
I'd like to put down some effort this week during the EuroPython
sprint to go forward with zope.testing for Python 3. zope.testing
3.9.5 is already deprecating zope.testing.testrunner, but I need to
remove it so that I can port zope.testing to Python 3 without going
mad. (zope.testrunner runs on Python 3 already, although installing it
fails, because it tries to install zope.testing 3.9.5.)

The questions are (some have been discussed before, but I don't
remember the outcome):

1. Should there be BBB imports of zope.testrunner into zope.testing?
We can do that to get a longer deprecation period, a couple of months
isn't very long).

2. Should I release the testrunner-free version before I port to
Python 3, or should we do both at once?Doing both at once of course
risks more problems than one at a time. On the other hand we might
want all changes at once to lessen annoyance.

3. It should be zope.testing 4.0.0, right?

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Re: [Zope-dev] ./bin/test failing with trunk zope.testing

2010-07-20 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 16:58, Jonathan Lange j...@mumak.net wrote:
 Actually, it turned out to be something of a pebkac.

Happy to hear it, zope.testrunner and zope.testing.testrunner *should*
be compatible, and if they aren't that is probably a bug.

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Re: [Zope-dev] zope.testing / zope.testrunner path forward:

2010-07-20 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 23:57, Marius Gedminas mar...@gedmin.as wrote:
 I'm for two separate releases.  Release early, release often.

Oh, that's not a problem.
svn://svn.zope.org/repos/main/zope.testing/branches/regebro-400 Is
testrunner free and runs on Python 3 already. It's purely a question
of if we want both changes at once or not. :-)

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Tests: 10 OK, 4 Failed, 2 Unknown

2010-05-04 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 00:41, Christophe Combelles cc...@free.fr wrote:
 Unless I missed something, the ZTK was globally compatible with Python2.4
 recently, wasn't it?  Do we want the latest changes and Lennart's work to be
 part of the ZTK 1.0?

I think it's OK if they are not. Of course it would be cool if 1.0
does include the latest and greatest, but my changes are mostly aimed
at Python 3 compatibility, and ZTK 1.0 will not have that as a whole
anyway.

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Tests: 10 OK, 4 Failed, 2 Unknown

2010-05-04 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 20:02, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote:
 - - zope.browserpage
 - - zope.viewlet
 - - zope.contentprovider
 - - zope.deferredimport

These tests all fail because as Tres pointed out, Python 2.4 doesn't
set __file__ to the doctest filename in the globals. Zope.browserpage
in turn uses those globals to determine the filename of the
pagetemplate. So, you get an error if you create a browserpage in a
DocTestFile, like so:

  ErrorPage = SimpleViewClass(errorFileName, name='error.html')

Passing in file explicitly solves the problem:

  ErrorPage = SimpleViewClass(errorFileName, name='error.html',
offering={'__file__': 'README.txt'})

The same thing goes for ViewPagetemplateFile, but there it's called
_prefix instead of offering. Yeah, none of those variable names make
sense.
It can also typically be fixed by passing in __file__ explicitly to the doctest:

def test_suite():
import doctest
filename = os.path.join(os.pardir, 'namedtemplate.txt')
return doctest.DocFileSuite(
filename,
setUp=pageSetUp, tearDown=zope.component.testing.tearDown,
globs={'__file__':
os.path.abspath(os.path.join(os.path.dirname(__file__), filename))}
)

Other options is to make the usage of __file__ lazy, so that it's only
looked up in the globals when accessed. Because I suspect it's not
actually used except when you get errors, but I'm not 100% sure.

So for the time being, I went for passing in __file__ explicitly in
globs.  The tests run under Python 2.4 again.

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Tests: 10 OK, 4 Failed, 2 Unknown

2010-05-04 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 12:07, Martijn Faassen faas...@startifact.com wrote:
 For a while already people have been making changes that at least break
 tests on 2.4. For instance, zope.testing has some facility to pretty
 print a dictionary that sorts the keys, because Python 2.4's built-in
 pretty print module apparently doesn't do that yet, meaning random test
 failures can happen. But people have been updating code to use Python's
 built-in pretty print facility and this will only be reliable on Python
 2.5 and higher.

Although that zope.testing facility has been deprecated, as far as I'm
aware it's still there... If not maybe it should be reintroduced,
we're suppose dto deprecate, not break in this case.

 In my opinion it's time to drop Python 2.4 support anyway, but it's been
 going a bit haphazardly by way of bit rot..

Yeah, officially dropping is better than bitrot dropping it, that's
for sure. And as mentioned, except for the Bicycle toolkit or
whatever the name is, 2.4 is not needed any more.

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Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-03 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 13:22, Martijn Faassen faas...@startifact.com wrote:
 Wichert Akkerman wrote:
 Sorry, my mistake. I meant the ZTK release manage group, not the now
 defunct ZTK steering group,

Well, if it's defunct or not is up to the members of the steering
group. The steering group created itself, and may disband itself if it
so wishes. It has all the right in the world to continue existing,
even if the idea is that the ZTK oversight will be done by the release
manager team instead.

 If it's defunct someone better update the documentation.

The creation of the release manager team was only recently concluded.
To expect zope process documentation to update quickly is unrealistic.

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Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-03 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 15:41, Martijn Faassen faas...@startifact.com wrote:
 Well, I'm disappointed in the zope documentation process then. Work faster!

:)

 If you don't inform people about this release manager team thingy, you
 can't rightly expect people like me to care about it.

Heh. Martijn, I understand you are just shaking off all the shit that
you had to take, but I'm not sure everyone gets the joke.

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Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-03 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 17:30, Martijn Faassen faas...@startifact.com wrote:
 Answers like read the mailing list archives and we're working on it
 are legitimate sometimes. But they're also all too easily the answers of
 a bureaucracy that's stalling things as bureaucracies do. They're not
 very useful in a constructive discussion.

But in this case it's not bureaucracy that's stalling. It's the
community readjusting to a large extent to fill the hole that appeared
when you stepped aside. And that readjustment will NOT take a couple
of days, it will take longer.

We will need to keep the ZTK up to date, and I know people are
committed to the ZTK so it will be. But we'll need to figure out the
process, but that process isn't really done yet, and it's hard to
document what doesn't exist.

I don't know anything about the fork, but my view of the fork is that
of Hanno wants a fork, Hanno can have a fork, as long as he doesn't
try to poke anyones eye out with it. If it's a stupid waste of time,
it's Hannos stupid waste of time.

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Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-03 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 18:09, Martijn Faassen faas...@startifact.com wrote:
 Hanno is making releases of packages in the ZTK. So it's not just
 Hanno's waste of time; it's mine too.

Obviously he shouldn't hurt the main ZTK in any way. That would be a
problem (even if i missed this incident completely and hence dn't
understand what or how things broke). But I think the fork in itself
is a red herring.

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Re: [Zope-dev] summary of suggestions

2010-05-03 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 20:13, Martijn Faassen faas...@startifact.com wrote:
 Since there are no ZTK releases Grok and BlueBream gain stability by
 pinning to a particular revision of ztk.cfg (and moving it forward when
 needed). Zope 2 could easily do the same. If more is needed, then a
 branch or tag can easily be made. Besides the perennial documentation
 issues, I also don't see why we couldn't just start releasing the ZTK;
 instead of pinning to an SVN revision we'd start pinning to an SVN tag
 (or a release URL with version number in it). What's the holdup, really?

Making a ZTK 1.0a seems to be a good idea to me, and should help here.
And we don't have to commit to anything, since it's an alpha. We could
even call it 0.1, if so desired. :)

 One objection I can see is that we might end up with quite a few
 releases in a short period, and it might be nicer to have a more stable
 base that people can build on. But they could simply pin to one release
 and stick with it for a while, right?

Right.

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