Re: [Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-24 Thread Joseph Cheek
nope. that's a function of the DB, not PHP. if the DB is written right it will roll back/commit transactions automatically. so this becomes an argument for zope over php+some really lame DB, not zope over php regardless. 8-) [agreed that the linuxjournal commit/rollback code is hairy, but

Re: [Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-24 Thread R. David Murray
On Wed, 24 Apr 2002, Joseph Cheek wrote: nope. that's a function of the DB, not PHP. if the DB is written right it will roll back/commit transactions automatically. so this becomes an argument for zope over php+some really lame DB, not zope over php regardless. 8-) [agreed that the

Re: [Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-24 Thread Leonardo Rochael Almeida
On Tue, 2002-04-23 at 21:36, Jason Spisak wrote: [...] 5. The transactional nature of Zope (although they didn't believe me when it came to rolling back multiple dbs) impressed them and if it really can mange a rollback from from a DB and transaction safety for inventory,etc...(which I

Re: [Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-24 Thread Jason Spisak
This means that every Update/Insert command make sthe ZODB grow, right? Has anyone had experience with Packing a site with high traffic in a case like this (RDBMS backend)? What happens? On Wednesday 24 April 2002 12:55 pm, Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote: On Tue, 2002-04-23 at 21:36,

Re: [Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-24 Thread R. David Murray
On Wed, 24 Apr 2002, Jason Spisak wrote: This means that every Update/Insert command make sthe ZODB grow, right? Has anyone had experience with Packing a site with high traffic in a case like this (RDBMS backend)? What happens? No, and RDBMS update or insert does *not* cause the zodb to

Re: [Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-24 Thread Jason Spisak
Thanks Leonardo, I was confusing the two. The encapsulation, yes that makes a lot more sense. On Wednesday 24 April 2002 2:44 pm, R. David Murray wrote: On Wed, 24 Apr 2002, Jason Spisak wrote: This means that every Update/Insert command make sthe ZODB grow, right? Has anyone had

Re: [Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-24 Thread Leonardo Rochael Almeida
On Wed, 2002-04-24 at 17:39, Jason Spisak wrote: This means that every Update/Insert command make sthe ZODB grow, right? Wrong. Transactions allways happen. An insert/update causes the db adapter in question to register itself for transactions, but ZODB itself won't inflate unless an object

Re: [Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-24 Thread Phillip J. Eby
At 04:55 PM 4/24/02 -0300, Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote: As for multiple DB rollback, yes, that works as advertised, and is actually really easy to believe if you explain them how it works. Truth is, Two-Phase-Commit was INVENTED (a long time ago, and not in Zope) to make it possible to commit

[Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-23 Thread Jason Spisak
You might remember me, I've been a big Zope fan since ZTables, and have recently been asked Why Zope?. The project is commited to PostgreSQL and leaning toward PHP. Here's the project requirements for a softwre company: Hardware Compatability List Software Compatability List Store/ECommerce

RE: [Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-23 Thread Steve Drees
Plus the over head of running Zope instances is greater than PHP scripts. Is this really ture for anything non-trivial? ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML

Re: [Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-23 Thread Jason Spisak
I am not a PHP guy by any means, but I imagine having to run an extra server (Apache, Postgres vs Apache, Zope, Postgres) means there is another server process to watch, manage, start/restart. You don't have to do those things with PHP scripts. Perhaps someone with experience with a larger

Re: [Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-23 Thread William Trenker
I have only minor experience with PHP so this may be ignorant, but isn't programming a web application with PHP scripts more comparable to programming such an application with Python scripts? If PHP scripts are handling HTTP requests directly, that can also be done with pure Python scripts.

Re: [Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-23 Thread Oliver Bleutgen
Jason Spisak wrote: You might remember me, I've been a big Zope fan since ZTables, and have recently been asked Why Zope?. The project is commited to PostgreSQL and leaning toward PHP. Here's the project requirements for a softwre company: Hardware Compatability List Software

Re: [Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-23 Thread Jason Spisak
I think that's a big part of it. Using something that's already documented that has many features of a 'web app' built in already, vesus scripting those. But there are a lot of prepackaged scripts for Calendars, and database connections, shopping carts, etc... for PHP. So there's got to

Re: [Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-23 Thread Jason Spisak
Excellent thinking. I'm guessing that the PyscopyDA handles that type of thing and makes sure that it doesn't get nasty. That's a big win for Zope when dealing with inventory and things like that. Thanks Oliver. On Tuesday 23 April 2002 10:33 am, you wrote: Jason Spisak wrote: You might

Re: [Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-23 Thread William Trenker
At 11:01 AM 4/23/02 -0700, you wrote: But there are a lot of prepackaged scripts for Calendars, and database connections, shopping carts, etc... for PHP. So there's got to be more that just the prepackagedness of Zope to chose it over PHP. Yes, that is important. Of course, there are a lot

Re: [Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-23 Thread Jason Spisak
Curiously, if there are prepackage scripts for both, and there's less to 'mange' with PHP, that's a PHP win. I personally have CalendarTag, ZDataQueryKit and lots of yummy others runing from the downloads page. But since I'm trying to convince PHP people that using Zope is better, they

Re: [Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-23 Thread Jason Spisak
Dirk, Thanks for that. By 'separation' I'm assuming you mean ZPT, correct? I'm new to that, but the virtues seem to be simple edit and save for layout folks. With PHP, you can create forms to publish content. You don't have to give content mamagers PHP. Zope's a win for Designers, for

Re: [Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-23 Thread Lennart Regebro
From: Jason Spisak [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think Oliver's point about transaction safety is a big win. I might convince them just on that. But I'm still looking for more ammunition. Basic things from the top of my head: - Full OO = short development time = cheaper development. - Integrated

Re: [Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-23 Thread Jason Spisak
Thanks Lennart, There is OO php now, which they seem to enjoy. ugh The audited security is something I believe is big win. The quickness and efficiency of Zope Corp's (still calling them DC in my head) Zope security patching is outstanding. The community really shines there. With

Re: [Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-23 Thread Jason Spisak
Dirk, One more quick question about application/business logic in one place and layout in another. Looking at ZPT, I still see expressions and condition statements in the Templates themselves. That's not really separation, it's just making it work with HTML editing tools. I'm curious is

Re: [Zope-dev] PHP vs Zope cost benefit

2002-04-23 Thread Jason Spisak
To everyone who replied to this thread, I give a hearty congratulatory Thank you. They have decided to allow me to mock up the app in Zope and prove it's worthiness. I'm already halfway done with the first 2 modules. ;-) To recap what turned the tides were these wins: 1. Zope's security