Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features
On 31.10.2008 18:36 Uhr, Tres Seaver wrote: In that case Plone will neither use 2.11 nor 2.12 but go straight for a Zope 2.13 including Python 2.6. A major release every six month would be desirable for us in that case. Right now I don't see anyone, who would be using those releases. If those people exist, please speak up. Plone isn't the only consumer of Zope2, although it is clearly the biggest one. Tres, what are you current needs and requirements (properly based on your Repoze project)? I agree that Plone isn't the only consumer but I wonder if all other consumers really have the need jumping on every train passing the train station. We have the luxury with four supported Zope 2 major release. I don't want a fith right now unless we are having very good reasons. I think we need to move toward 2.6 compatibility, but we need to give people a migration path, largely because 2.6 will break 3rd party apps in ways that 2.4 doesn't warn about. So, I would like to see a 2.12 which is explicity about bridging first to 2.5 support: that way, people get a chance to clean up the new deprecation warnings (e.g., for the 'with' keyword, etc.). If ZODB 3.9 lands in time, then a near-term release of Zope 2.12 could be this consolidation release (2.5 support, new ZODB, including maybe RelStorage, other work done to date). Good points - let's head for Python 2.5 support in Zope 2.12. We could the focus trunk development on 2.6 compatibility, with the goal of releasing a 2.13 no later than Q3 next year. ACK In the meantime, we can acknowledge that 2.8 and 2.9 are retired (no future work except maybe important security fixes), +1 and announce that 2.10 will be retired after the 2.12 release: We have to care about 2.10 for a longer period because of the large amount of Plone 3.X installations. I don't see a win there, myself: I'd rather make an easier transition for 2.12 than spend resources on a potentially-destabilizing backport of 2.5 compatibility. ok - the goals for the 2.12 release should be documented somewhere (your ideas, see above + the Hanno's proposals). Andreas -- ZOPYX Ltd. Co. KG - Charlottenstr. 37/1 - 72070 Tübingen - Germany Web: www.zopyx.com - Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Phone +49 - 7071 - 793376 Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, Handelsregister A 381535 Geschäftsführer/Gesellschafter: ZOPYX Limited, Birmingham, UK E-Publishing, Python, Zope Plone development, Consulting begin:vcard fn:Andreas Jung n:Jung;Andreas org:ZOPYX Ltd. Co. KG adr;quoted-printable:;;Charlottenstr. 37/1;T=C3=BCbingen;;72070;Germany email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:CEO tel;work:+49-7071-793376 tel;fax:+49-7071-7936840 tel;home:+49-7071-793257 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.zopyx.com version:2.1 end:vcard ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Nov 4, 2008, at 09:10 , Andreas Jung wrote: In the meantime, we can acknowledge that 2.8 and 2.9 are retired (no future work except maybe important security fixes), +1 and announce that 2.10 will be retired after the 2.12 release: We have to care about 2.10 for a longer period because of the large amount of Plone 3.X installations. While there have been attempts to come up with an orderly release schedule I don't think anyone ever suggested some kind of deprecation scheme for Zope versions. It would be very helpful for everyone in the community to have a place to go where they can see which versions are in which support state. So far Zope versions just slipped into unsupported state by some implied - but unstated - consensus. Clearly, it's impossible to support all these versions from 2.8 to 2.12, +1 from me for dropping 2.8 and 2.9. Just make sure this is mentioned somewhere obvious. jens -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkkQFvkACgkQRAx5nvEhZLIP5wCfUj+XMB8JZguAC8Gje9dcgYSD Fb0AnRjFPYihYKesoXZMxhhExfSYoJdO =DJ8R -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features
Jens Vagelpohl wrote: On Nov 4, 2008, at 09:10 , Andreas Jung wrote: In the meantime, we can acknowledge that 2.8 and 2.9 are retired (no future work except maybe important security fixes), +1 and announce that 2.10 will be retired after the 2.12 release: We have to care about 2.10 for a longer period because of the large amount of Plone 3.X installations. While there have been attempts to come up with an orderly release schedule I don't think anyone ever suggested some kind of deprecation scheme for Zope versions. It would be very helpful for everyone in the community to have a place to go where they can see which versions are in which support state. So far Zope versions just slipped into unsupported state by some implied - but unstated - consensus. Clearly, it's impossible to support all these versions from 2.8 to 2.12, +1 from me for dropping 2.8 and 2.9. Just make sure this is mentioned somewhere obvious. From what I remember there have been discussions around this while attempting to get to a six-month time based release cycle at some point. If I'm not mistaken there was something about every release being supported two years after its initial release in those discussions. But time went on, we haven't sticked to a time-based release schedule and those policies haven't been written down or been followed. So it's probably time to document and decide on them once again :) Hanno ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Zope Tests: 4 OK, 2 Failed
Summary of messages to the zope-tests list. Period Mon Nov 3 12:00:00 2008 UTC to Tue Nov 4 12:00:00 2008 UTC. There were 6 messages: 6 from Zope Tests. Test failures - Subject: FAILED (failures=2) : Zope-trunk Python-2.4.5 : Linux From: Zope Tests Date: Mon Nov 3 21:10:28 EST 2008 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2008-November/010422.html Subject: FAILED (failures=2) : Zope-trunk Python-2.5.2 : Linux From: Zope Tests Date: Mon Nov 3 21:11:58 EST 2008 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2008-November/010423.html Tests passed OK --- Subject: OK : Zope-2.8 Python-2.3.7 : Linux From: Zope Tests Date: Mon Nov 3 21:04:25 EST 2008 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2008-November/010418.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.9 Python-2.4.5 : Linux From: Zope Tests Date: Mon Nov 3 21:05:57 EST 2008 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2008-November/010419.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.10 Python-2.4.5 : Linux From: Zope Tests Date: Mon Nov 3 21:07:27 EST 2008 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2008-November/010420.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.11 Python-2.4.5 : Linux From: Zope Tests Date: Mon Nov 3 21:08:57 EST 2008 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2008-November/010421.html ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Nov 4, 2008, at 13:59 , Hanno Schlichting wrote: If I'm not mistaken there was something about every release being supported two years after its initial release in those discussions. But time went on, we haven't sticked to a time-based release schedule and those policies haven't been written down or been followed. 2 years sounds fine to me. By that reasoning, we can stop supporting 2.8 (2.8.0 was released June 11, 2005) and 2.9 (2.9.0 was released January 9, 2006). However, if we were strict it would also mean EOL for 2.10 (2.10.0 was released October 4, 2006). But we can be lenient... jens -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkkQhBUACgkQRAx5nvEhZLJULgCgqQiCKyA/PXgQPDastrc2dGgU ucAAn3qBkt52dJsbU/e1yOtYIsvmxAOw =88Sa -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features
Jens Vagelpohl wrote: On Nov 4, 2008, at 13:59 , Hanno Schlichting wrote: If I'm not mistaken there was something about every release being supported two years after its initial release in those discussions. But time went on, we haven't sticked to a time-based release schedule and those policies haven't been written down or been followed. 2 years sounds fine to me. By that reasoning, we can stop supporting 2.8 (2.8.0 was released June 11, 2005) and 2.9 (2.9.0 was released January 9, 2006). However, if we were strict it would also mean EOL for 2.10 (2.10.0 was released October 4, 2006). But we can be lenient... +1 to retiring 2.8, 2.9. Of course, if people still want to maintain it, they should be welcome to. I just don't think we should have to merge bugfixes to those branches anymore. Maintaining 2.10, 2.11, trunk seems perfectly acceptable and it's plenty to deal with. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features
Andreas Jung wrote: On 04.11.2008 18:19 Uhr, Jens Vagelpohl wrote: On Nov 4, 2008, at 13:59 , Hanno Schlichting wrote: If I'm not mistaken there was something about every release being supported two years after its initial release in those discussions. But time went on, we haven't sticked to a time-based release schedule and those policies haven't been written down or been followed. 2 years sounds fine to me. We must be careful with such time-based policies because of the installed (Plone) installations. Zope 2.8 and Zope 2.9 are definitely dead horses. We must support Zope 2.10 (which is a pretty good release) as long as Plone 3.X is supported. Let's say Plone 4 becomes mature in late 2009 and widely used by 2010...then we can talk about getting rid of 2.10 (except the Plone releases = 3.2 would adopt Zope 2.11 or 2.12 at some point but I haven't heard that this is on the agenda for the next Plone 3.X releases). There are currently no plans to switch to a new Zope version for neither Plone 3.2 or 3.3. There are no plans or even a preliminary roadmap for a Plone 3.4 release yet. It would be something like a summer or autumn 2009 release. I think we will have some kind of feedback loop here, which makes it a good idea from a Plone perspective to upgrade to at least Zope 2.11 for Plone 3.4, as Zope 2.10 by whatever date that will be, is going to be an old an rather unmaintained release. So sticking to support 2.10, 2.11 and trunk right now and phasing out 2.10 sometime next year, sounds like a good roadmap to me. Hanno ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.12 features
On 04.11.2008 18:41 Uhr, Hanno Schlichting wrote: Andreas Jung wrote: On 04.11.2008 18:19 Uhr, Jens Vagelpohl wrote: On Nov 4, 2008, at 13:59 , Hanno Schlichting wrote: If I'm not mistaken there was something about every release being supported two years after its initial release in those discussions. But time went on, we haven't sticked to a time-based release schedule and those policies haven't been written down or been followed. 2 years sounds fine to me. We must be careful with such time-based policies because of the installed (Plone) installations. Zope 2.8 and Zope 2.9 are definitely dead horses. We must support Zope 2.10 (which is a pretty good release) as long as Plone 3.X is supported. Let's say Plone 4 becomes mature in late 2009 and widely used by 2010...then we can talk about getting rid of 2.10 (except the Plone releases= 3.2 would adopt Zope 2.11 or 2.12 at some point but I haven't heard that this is on the agenda for the next Plone 3.X releases). There are currently no plans to switch to a new Zope version for neither Plone 3.2 or 3.3. There are no plans or even a preliminary roadmap for a Plone 3.4 release yet. It would be something like a summer or autumn 2009 release. I think we will have some kind of feedback loop here, which makes it a good idea from a Plone perspective to upgrade to at least Zope 2.11 for Plone 3.4, as Zope 2.10 by whatever date that will be, is going to be an old an rather unmaintained release. So sticking to support 2.10, 2.11 and trunk right now and phasing out 2.10 sometime next year, sounds like a good roadmap to me. ok,ok - I'll stop caring to much about the Plone world :-) Andreas begin:vcard fn:Andreas Jung n:Jung;Andreas org:ZOPYX Ltd. Co. KG adr;quoted-printable:;;Charlottenstr. 37/1;T=C3=BCbingen;;72070;Germany email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:CEO tel;work:+49-7071-793376 tel;fax:+49-7071-7936840 tel;home:+49-7071-793257 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.zopyx.com version:2.1 end:vcard ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
