Re: [Zope-dev] DTML is dead, long live DTML ;-)

2010-09-05 Thread Vincent Fretin 
Hi,

For AGX3, we started to use Jinja for the template, for example for
the generation of setup.py, we have:

version = '{{version}}'

setup(name='{{project}}',
  version=version,
  description={{description}},
...

The syntax is simpler than dtml we use in AGX2:
dtml-var description

Vincent


On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 5:13 AM, Tim Hoffman zutes...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Florian
 I use a model based generation approach (from enterprise architect) however
 even archgenxml has templates for large amounts of  boiler plate under the
 hood.
 Have you actually looked at the src of archgenxml, if you did you will
 notices it uses dtml for templating the code output ;-)
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Re: [Zope-dev] DTML is dead, long live DTML ;-)

2010-09-05 Thread Tim Hoffman 
HI Vincent.

I haven't looked an jinja to date. Will definately have a look at it.

I generate a lot of code (sql, gae models, storm schema, formish schema's)
from Enterprise Architect, and
currently using dtml for all non html/xml output.

 Cheers

T

On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Vincent Fretin vincent.fre...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi,

 For AGX3, we started to use Jinja for the template, for example for
 the generation of setup.py, we have:

 version = '{{version}}'

 setup(name='{{project}}',
  version=version,
  description={{description}},
 ...

 The syntax is simpler than dtml we use in AGX2:
 dtml-var description

 Vincent


 On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 5:13 AM, Tim Hoffman zutes...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi Florian
  I use a model based generation approach (from enterprise architect)
 however
  even archgenxml has templates for large amounts of  boiler plate under
 the
  hood.
  Have you actually looked at the src of archgenxml, if you did you will
  notices it uses dtml for templating the code output ;-)

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Re: [Zope-dev] DTML is dead, long live DTML ;-)

2010-09-05 Thread Laurence Rowe 
On 5 September 2010 02:49, Tim Hoffman zutes...@gmail.com wrote:


 Please note that DTML is a dead (and horrid) technology.
 Martin

 But zpt is horrible for doing non html/xml based things ;-), What do you
 think is good alternative in the zope eco system now
 for templating other types of things (sql, python ...) ?

If you don't need conditions or looping, then string.Template from the
standard library is a reasonable choice. For templating SQL I would
use SQLAlchemy, as you want appropriate quoting applied to your input.
(You don't have to use it's ORM).

Laurence
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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3 Newbie Feedback

2010-09-05 Thread Andreas Jung 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

hm...yet another try getting out of your ZClass-based legacy apps?

Why don't you look at something easier like Grok or repoze.bfg
for writing your stuff...or choose an existing CMS solution like LFC
(also based on Python but Django).

I am always under the impression that you are trying to use a complex
technology without being interested or capable to diving into the depth
of the framework.

- -aj

Christopher Lozinski wrote:
  First of all my compliments to all of the people who put in enormous
 amounts of work first figuring out how to build Zope 3, and then
 building it.  I am most grateful  I hope that these comments help you
 better understand your market.
 
 I should say that I have been using Zope 2 since 1999 and watching Zope
 3 for the longest time.  I just could not get it.  Python is cool, but
 interfaces, adaptors, zcml etc just made my eyes glaze over.  I now
 understand why all that was necessary, but it was off putting.  I
 finally have an app I need to write, but the complexity quite delayed my
 working with Zope 3.  What is needed is a simple model to get people
 hooked. 
 
 So how to make Blue Bream easier to use?   I propose making the initial
 start up interface a simple content management system, kind of a Plone
 light.  We all know there is way too much stuff under the hood of
 Plone.  It slows software evolution.  In contrast I know that Zope 3 is
 easy to evolve, just getting started is hard.  So everyone starts in
 Plone, but never migrates to Zope 3.   So a simple content management
 system out of the box would make it very easy to get started in Blue
 Bream.  Then users could grow into the system. 
 
 I know Plone just had a new release . I am not sure what all is in it,
 but it would be great if Zope 3 on startup looked just like Plone, as
 far as possible.  Right out of the box allow users to register
 themselves, and add in the stock content types.  Calendar item, news
 item, things like that, not the developer centric ZPT and DTML file. 
 Also allow the developer stuff, but under a different branch of a
 hierarchical menu system.Maybe only people with a developer or
 manager permission see those kinds of items.
 
 There are three parts to a simple content management system.   First,  a
 way to generate new content types, and second some dtml or page
 templates to display them.  Finally some examples would also be useful.
 
 So the critical thing I need is a way to put up custom content types
 using a web interface to build the schema.  Maybe I could even add a few
 python scripts.  And click on some options that usually go in an zcml
 file.  That would make it super fast to put up a custom content type.  
 That would make for a very easy entry for someone like myself into
 building a new BlueBream application.
 
 Then I need to add some DTML or page templates to display those content
 types.  I can already do that right through the web. 
 
 Finally a few existing content types like calendar item, link, and
 article would provide for great examples if anyone wanted to modify or
 copy them.  They could be implemented through the web as examples or
 base classes to be inherited or modified.
 
 That would be an awesome demo.  A real simple way to get started in Zope
 3.  A simple abstraction that would make it accessible to those stupider
 developers like myself.   And everyone else out there.  Once hooked,
 over time we could dig deeper.
 
 That is all I want.  A simple content management system out of the box,
 make it easy to add my own content type.  Sure the serious hackers can
 throw all that out, but for the average end user/developer, that would
 be a hugely tempting improvement over using Plone.   If I can add a few
 dtml pages to display my content, it would all be very easy to get
 started.  Later I could export to the file system, and svn.
 
 But that is not what I currently get.   Instead, in my case, we will go
 with the system admin manually adding users for a while.  And I have to
 learn how to write an interface file, which is way way more difficult
 than just using a web form to define one.  The web form, lays out my
 choices, and only allows for legal schema definitions.  Much better. 
 
 Okay, so much for my wish list.  Here are some more specific comments.
 
 Thank you for providing the user interface.   Registration is quite
 confusing.  First I create something, then I have to register it. 
 Hello, if I created it, then just go ahead and register it for me.  Take
 a ZPT page.  I am a zope 2 developer.  I know what that is.  Then they
 ask me to register it.  Took a while to figure out what that means.   I
 still have no idea what all those options for interfaces are.  If you
 have to have all those choices there, just label one default for me.  It
 can't be that hard.  Maybe register one by default, and provide the
 option to change it.  Make the page say clearly that something has been
 registered.

[Zope-dev] Zope Tests: 35 OK, 14 Failed, 2 Unknown

2010-09-05 Thread Zope Tests Summarizer 
Summary of messages to the zope-tests list.
Period Sat Sep  4 12:00:00 2010 UTC to Sun Sep  5 12:00:00 2010 UTC.
There were 51 messages: 6 from Zope Tests, 2 from buildbot at 
enfoldsystems.com, 4 from buildbot at pov.lt, 19 from buildbot at 
winbot.zope.org, 8 from ccomb at free.fr, 5 from ct at gocept.com, 7 from 
jdriessen at thehealthagency.com.


Test failures
-

Subject: FAILED : winbot / ztk_dev py_244_win32
From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
Date: Sat Sep  4 16:13:03 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019439.html

Subject: FAILED : winbot / ztk_dev py_254_win32
From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
Date: Sat Sep  4 16:15:38 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019440.html

Subject: FAILED : winbot / ztk_dev py_265_win32
From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
Date: Sat Sep  4 16:18:30 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019441.html

Subject: FAILED : winbot / ztk_dev py_265_win64
From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
Date: Sat Sep  4 16:21:16 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019442.html

Subject: FAILED : winbot / ztk_10 py_244_win32
From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
Date: Sat Sep  4 16:30:08 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019443.html

Subject: FAILED : winbot / zc_buildout_dev py_244_win32
From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
Date: Sat Sep  4 17:04:10 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019447.html

Subject: FAILED : winbot / zc_buildout_dev py_265_win64
From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
Date: Sat Sep  4 17:41:04 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019450.html

Subject: FAILED : winbot / zc_buildout_dev py_270_win64
From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
Date: Sat Sep  4 18:06:32 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019452.html

Subject: FAILED : Total languishing bugs for zopetoolkit: 189
From: ct at gocept.com
Date: Sat Sep  4 20:37:37 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019463.html

Subject: FAILED : Total languishing bugs for zope: 106
From: ct at gocept.com
Date: Sat Sep  4 20:40:53 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019464.html

Subject: FAILED: Repository policy check found errors in 393 projects
From: ct at gocept.com
Date: Sat Sep  4 21:22:44 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019468.html

Subject: FAILED : winbot / ZODB_dev py_270_win32
From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
Date: Sat Sep  4 21:48:23 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019475.html

Subject: FAILED : winbot / ZODB_dev py_270_win64
From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
Date: Sat Sep  4 22:44:34 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019481.html

Subject: FAILED : ZTK 1.0 / Python2.4.6 Linux 64bit
From: ccomb at free.fr
Date: Sun Sep  5 01:39:25 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019485.html


Unknown
---

Subject: [zodb-tests] buildbot failure in Enfold Systems on 
zodb-trunk-python-2.6-maestro
From: buildbot at enfoldsystems.com
Date: Sun Sep  5 02:01:37 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019488.html

Subject: [zodb-tests] buildbot failure in Enfold Systems on 
zodb-trunk-python-2.5-maestro
From: buildbot at enfoldsystems.com
Date: Sun Sep  5 02:03:22 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019489.html


Tests passed OK
---

Subject: OK : winbot / ztk_10 py_254_win32
From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
Date: Sat Sep  4 16:37:50 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019444.html

Subject: OK : winbot / ztk_10 py_265_win32
From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
Date: Sat Sep  4 16:45:07 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019445.html

Subject: OK : winbot / ztk_10 py_265_win64
From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
Date: Sat Sep  4 16:52:40 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019446.html

Subject: OK : winbot / zc_buildout_dev py_254_win32
From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
Date: Sat Sep  4 17:16:05 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019448.html

Subject: OK : winbot / zc_buildout_dev py_265_win32
From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
Date: Sat Sep  4 17:28:39 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019449.html

Subject: OK : winbot / zc_buildout_dev py_270_win32
From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
Date: Sat Sep  4 17:53:52 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019451.html

Subject: OK : winbot / ZODB_dev py_254_win32
From: buildbot at winbot.zope.org
Date: Sat Sep  4 19:01:47 EDT 2010
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2010-September/019453.html

Subject: OK : Zope Buildbot /

Re: [Zope-dev] DTML is dead, long live DTML ;-)

2010-09-05 Thread Florian Friesdorf 
On Sun, Sep 05, 2010 at 11:13:05AM +0800, Tim Hoffman wrote:
 Hi Florian
 
 I use a model based generation approach (from enterprise architect) however
 even archgenxml has templates for large amounts of  boiler plate under the
 hood.
 
 Have you actually looked at the src of archgenxml, if you did you will
 notices it uses dtml for templating the code output ;-)

Once did, but wasn't aware of any dtml, come to think of it, there is
some reason to it ;)

-- 
Florian Friesdorf f...@chaoflow.net
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Jabber/XMPP: f...@chaoflow.net
IRC: chaoflow on freenode,ircnet,blafasel,OFTC


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Re: [Zope-dev] DTML is dead, long live DTML ;-)

2010-09-05 Thread Hanno Schlichting 
On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Tim Hoffman zutes...@gmail.com wrote:
 So I was looking for zope eco system based non html/xml based templating
 systems as a response to Martin
 saying DTML is dead, as I am currently using DTML for these sorts of tasks.

The Zope eco system for such tasks is the same as the wider Python eco
system these days. There's absolutely no need to stick with a
Zope-only approach anymore.

string.Template, Jinja2 and Mako all seem to be well maintained
templating solutions you could use. DTML is definitely dead as far as
open-source software can die.

Hanno
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Re: [Zope-dev] Extending Zope2 bin/instance run

2010-09-05 Thread Wichert Akkerman 
On 2010-9-4 00:43, Chris Withers wrote:
 On 03/09/2010 17:21, Tres Seaver wrote:
 I am not sure if this is best done in plone.recipe.zope2instance or
 Zope2.Startup.zopectl. They have differing versions of ZopeCmd. Perhaps
 the plone.recipe.zope2instance code should be merged into Zope2's
 original as well?

 I don't know anything about the code in plone.recipe.zope2instance.

 Yes, and please remember that Plone is not the only consumer of Zope 2,
 and neither is plone.recipe.zope2instance the only way to deploy Zope...

there is absolutely nothing Plone-specific about plone, and people are 
using it for non-Plone systems as well.

Wichert.

-- 
Wichert Akkerman wich...@wiggy.net   It is simple to make things.
http://www.wiggy.net/  It is hard to make things simple.
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Re: [Zope-dev] Extending Zope2 bin/instance run

2010-09-05 Thread Wichert Akkerman 
On 2010-9-5 16:03, Wichert Akkerman wrote:
 On 2010-9-4 00:43, Chris Withers wrote:
 On 03/09/2010 17:21, Tres Seaver wrote:
 I am not sure if this is best done in plone.recipe.zope2instance or
 Zope2.Startup.zopectl. They have differing versions of ZopeCmd. Perhaps
 the plone.recipe.zope2instance code should be merged into Zope2's
 original as well?

 I don't know anything about the code in plone.recipe.zope2instance.

 Yes, and please remember that Plone is not the only consumer of Zope 2,
 and neither is plone.recipe.zope2instance the only way to deploy Zope...

 there is absolutely nothing Plone-specific about plone, and people are
 using it for non-Plone systems as well.

.. about plone.recipe.zope2instance that is. Obviously Plone itself is 
quite Plone-specific :)

Wichert.


-- 
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http://www.wiggy.net/  It is hard to make things simple.
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