[Zope-dev] Re: self = self.this() in Factory Methods [Was: Dynpersist.so and makefile.pre.in]

[Andrew Kenneth Milton]

+---[ Stefan H. Holek ]--
| At 01.02.2002 10:44 -0500, R. David Murray wrote:
|
| All,
| 
| Please have a look at my patch for XUF at
| 
| 
| I believe that manage_addexUserFolder() is faulty, in that it does not call 
| the FactoryDispatcher's this() before assigning to self.__allow_groups__.
| 
| My point is that 'self' is initially referring to a FactoryDispatcher 
| (App/FactoryDispatcher.py) which does *not* define __setattr__().

As I explained previously I think that if you are trying to install XUF 
(or anything) programmatically from a ZClass, then you should call the 
manage_addFoo() on an instanciated object i.e. a Folder or some other container 
that your ZClass has created, not on your Dispatcher.

If someone gives me a sane reason why this isn't correct and that calling
self = self.this() in every product constructor is actually the correct 
behaviour I'll put it in (as opposed to catering for lazy ZClass 
programmers d8) Not that this seems to be in very many constructors for
Zope stuff or other products I have installed.

Since it seems this is going to occur repeatedly, having spent 10 seconds
looking at it, it seems that the 'correct' way is to call

self.Destination()._setObject()

so in essence self.Destination().__allow_groups__ will also get what we
want. 

This is actually documented (although it's not clear what versions of Zope
this will work with, or whether this will do the same thing as 
self._setObject(), it's late, I've had no sleep, I'll look later, or someone
who actually knows can fill in the blanks for us, but, I think it's 2.4 only)

It doesn't seem to be used by any of the Zope objects in 2.4.3 (at least not 
in any python ones), so it's hard to say.

The ZDG does not say that self (or dispatcher as it says), will not be
usable as if it was your ObjectManager.

"The add function will be passed a FactoryDispatcher as its first argument 
which proxies the location (usually a Folder) where your product was added."

This implies nothing special is needed to use the first argument as if it
was the ObjectManager to which you are being installed.

So from this it seems if you are running 2.4 that self should be a proxy
to an ObjectManager to which you can add things w/o calling Destination()

| I believe this to be the reason for issues surrounding XUF like 
| "undeletable" userfolders where the __allow_groups__ attribute appears to 
| be installed in the wrong place.

err no. That was something completely unrelated, and had to do with the
manage_beforeDelete() failing (now corrected).

| I am not posting to the XUF list as I would have to subscribe first.

Yes, we enjoy the lower spam count over on -devel, -users is open though.
If you want to discuss XUF devel issues then you should subscribe and you
should post there.

Your patch was rejected because it claimed to fix something it was unrelated
to, namely the __allow_groups__ persisting after the acl_users was deleted.

Your fix could not have possibly fixed it, because the code that actually
removed the attribute was never executed, which means you didn't actually
test your patch against the condition you told me it was supposed to fix.

-- 
Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet|  | Andrew Milton
The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd  |  |
ACN: 082 081 472 ABN: 83 082 081 472 |  M:+61 416 022 411   | Carpe Daemon
PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068|[EMAIL PROTECTED]| 

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[Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev

[Andrew Kenneth Milton]

Since I seem to be the cause of all hell breaking loose over here, I thought
take the opportunity to respond, since I haven't really been given an
opportunity to do that. Since this probably going to be my only ever 
posting to zope-dev, I don't feel constrained to be brief in exercising my
right of reply.

I'm not going to apologise for the comments I made, or the manner in which I 
made them. Those comments were made on a list run by me, basically for my own
amusement. If I had posted either of those emails to someone else's list, I'd
quite rightly deserve to be fried.

I don't make money from Zope Development (I don't make money), I don't
run a website, in fact, I don't actually use any of the products I have
released. So it's not like I have a vested interest in Zope. My fortunes don't
rest on the success or failure of Zope or any one of its components. I live 
in a country the size of the USA that has the approximate population of 
New York State. Even if I stood on a busy street corner with a loud hailer, 
the number of people I could actually influence would be small. This makes
me one of the people in the trenches.

It is the people who are in the trenches who are increasingly being
disaffected by Zope Corp, it seems as if you're not subscribed to zope-dev, 
you have no voice, and for most people zope-dev is not an appropriate forum 
for them to be subscribed to. As some of you know, I was hounded off of the
zope@ mailing list for suggesting that there be some other mailing list
for more technical discussion. People were very upset, because, they
already have a hard time getting any support. Noone from Zope Corp seems
to monitor the list to help out. The zope list was manned by people like
me volunteering expertise and time to help more of the little people.

A lot of those people come to the irc channel, which is also rarely if
ever visited by anyone from Zope Corp. Most people know that #zope is the
place to go when all else fails. The major irony of this is, that most
of the people seeking help on #zope are working with it, or consulting with
it, and are supported by me and others for free. We are the ones that
deal with the 'general zope public.' We are the defenders of the faith.

The Zope Weekly News, which turned into Zope Monthly News, which now
has not been updated since October is a joke. It shows Zope Corporation's
attitude towards their community. It says "We don't care about our community."
I'm sure that's not the feeling of the *individuals* inside Zope Corp, I'm
sure it is (or I hope it is) a source of great embarassment to those
individuals that work for Zope Corp.

Letting your community showpiece atrophy doesn't show any great passion 
towards us, it certainly doesn't endear new users to Zope. New users are
the only way Zope Corp is going to make more money, unless of course
zope.org is just for us non-revenue generating little fish, an inconvenience
associated with having Open Source software, not something that promotes
and supports the non-paying community.

Noone wants a standardised User Management API more than me. I *want* to
have confidence that someone can replace any User Folder with XUF, and it
will just work. So when I come across something that says there is a 
New User Management API, I get excited. I prepare to roll up my sleeves and
make the necessary changes to make software I contributed to the community
continue to work. I think we all know by now my opinion on what I found,
the harshness of the expression of that opinion is directly related to 
the way that these days Zope Corp seems to be an Ivory Tower and the way
they seem to treat the community at large.

There are approximately 450 products released by just over 200 people on
Zope.org. There are approximately 1000 'entities' subscribed to this list
(more to the main list), I represent 0.1% of this community, but, am
responsible (but, not soley) for 3% of the total product space available.

If people want to form an opinion of me based on one email, that's your
right. You don't have the right to tell me, that *I* don't have the right
to say the things I'm saying. I have earned the right to make these comments,
I have contributed time, effort, and code, and I put my money where my
mouth is. I'm not some backseat political observer, I am in the trenches
I deal with the disaffected, the confused, and the generally pissed off
every day. In my efforts, I try to help to make Zope a better product.

You would be hard pressed to find a more stalwart supporter of Zope than me.
This doesn't mean that I have to think that everything that leaves the 
holy temple of Zope Corp is the panacea of web development. My opinions
might be wrong, but, they're not wrong simply because something was released 
by Zope Corp, or written by some person you have attached some god like
status to.

I will continue to do my thing, but, the way Zope Corp deals with us, 
the little fish had better change, or there's not going to be much of

[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope] Looping through a folder's contents...

[Andrew Kenneth Milton]

+---[ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ]--
| What would the "Recurse_Subfolder" method do?
| 
| > 
| >  
| > 
| > 

That *is* Recruse_Subfolder :-)

-- 
Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet|  P:+61 7 3870 0066   | Andrew Milton
The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd  |  F:+61 7 3870 4477   | 
ACN: 082 081 472 ABN: 83 082 081 472 |  M:+61 416 022 411   | Carpe Daemon
PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068|[EMAIL PROTECTED]| 

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[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope] Looping through a folder's contents...

[Andrew Kenneth Milton]

+---[ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ]--
| I would like to loop through the contents of a folder, and the
| contents of the subfolders of that folder.  I know I can do this to a
| singular level by doing something like:
| 
| 
| 
| 
| 
| Should give me a list of the titles of all the subfolders of the
| folder called "subfolder".  So, once I get there, how do I loop
| through the subobjects of each of those folders?
| 
| In other words, I have a subfolder inside of the folder called
| "subfolder" and I want to see the contents of that folder.  How do I
| do it?

I'll give you the general case for 'all' folders:-

Make a Method...  Recurse_SubFolder.


 



-




You can obviously expand this to also take a 'type' for objectValues,
and pass the namespace etc.

-- 
Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet|  P:+61 7 3870 0066   | Andrew Milton
The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd  |  F:+61 7 3870 4477   | 
ACN: 082 081 472 ABN: 83 082 081 472 |  M:+61 416 022 411   | Carpe Daemon
PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068|[EMAIL PROTECTED]| 

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