RE: [Zope-dev] How should an ideal Zope IDE look like?

2004-04-24 Thread Joachim Werner
Hi! 
 
I am aware that I am adding another 2-3 man years to the wishlist, but here 
are some ideas I had lately: 
 
A Zope IDE should be much more than just a programming IDE adapted offer 
highlighting etc. for Zope's languages. It should be an RAD tool similar to 
what MS Access does for databases. There are similar tools for commercial 
frameworks like Enfinity from Intershop ... 
 
I'd like to model an application using UML or similar (the UML class diagrams 
are not perfect for Python or Zope, but they could be a starting point). 
 
I'd like to be able to define workflows graphically. 
 
I'd like to click together components. E.g., if I need a user authentication 
module I can choose from all adapters that provide that interface (LDAP, 
SQL-based, etc.) 
 
It should be possible to use hand-written HTML of course, but there should be 
a set of templates that give my applications a decent look  feel to start 
with. 
 
Forms (or more general, schemas), can be defined easily, either in a 
Formulator-like way or graphically (i.e. you see the actual form fields on the 
screen when working on the form). 
 
 
 My main concern would be it's adaptibility to custom content types. 
 
For that you'd be able to use basic building blocks and add your own 
additional attributes (probably using annotations). All in a nice graphical 
front end. 
 
All documentation about interfaces and APIs should be available wherever it 
makes sense, e.g. I can query for all components that are registered for a 
certain interface and view the interface definitions. 
 
Joachim 

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Re: Zope3, CMS, IDEs (was: [Zope-dev] The bleak Future of Zope?)

2004-04-22 Thread Joachim Werner
Hi! 
 
 It would be great to start something like a Zope3 CMS interest group up, 
 to pool all our CMS experience - start collecting requirements, etc.  
 Seems like a mighty large task, though :-) 
 
I've proposed that a couple of times already. There are two problems in real 
life: 
 
1) Somebody has to take care of managing the project. We need at least a web 
page and a first draft of what we want to accomplish. My idea always was to 
start with a feature matrix of the current Zope-based and competing systems 
and then add a wish list of things that we need for Zope 3, based on the 
existing products' implementations. 
 
2) If politics take over, things will quickly fall apart. I for my part would 
be happy to work together with people who are currently using Plone, but I'd 
not want to work on a Plone 3. So the effort should aim at the common grounds 
all the CMS have, not on the individual philosophies that drive the different 
projects ... 
  
 I'd like to at least have a session on this topic at Europython. 
Unfortunately I probably won't be there this year. 
 
 I know it's said to be slow, but Eclipse has some pretty major momentum 
 behind it... has anyone round here looked at it in detail?  I guess it 
 requires you to write loads of Java to produce new plugins :-( 
 
Well, it is becoming some kind of standard. But my personal feeling is that 
we'd need something fresh that is focussed on Zope. That would make things 
easier. Whenever I use an IDE that also talks Python I am distracted by all 
the stuff that I'll never really need ... 
 
Eclipse can be used as a platform though (and I'm sure one can use Jython a 
lot to make things easier for Pythonists). I personally prefer Qt, but that's 
not free on Windows, so the target group is a bit more limited than with using 
a Java-based solution. 
 
 I disagree that performance is a problem in Zope 2.  With a combination 
 of profiling to eliminate bottlenecks, ZEO, and Squid, Zope hums along  
 beautifully.  We are consulting for a company that is in the process of  
 replacing their Java front-end with Zope.  They have huge amounts of  
 traffic, and are impressed with Zope's performance compared with their  
 comparable Java system. 
 
I've heard that a couple of times. But let's face it: Of course you can get 
Zope to deliver partly dynamic pages at high speed and if you use caching you 
can deliver pages at wire speed, but it will not be nearly as fast as a 
solution using Java or .NET/C# if we are talking about a lot of two-way 
traffic and CPU-intensive tasks in the back end, e.g. an online shopping mall, 
a booking system, or a groupware. 
 
 P.S. I don't agree with your pessimistic assessment of CMF, or Plone.  
 They're both good at what they do. 
 
I agree with you that Plone is quite impressive as it is now, but nobody will 
ever convince me that the CMF = Plone way was the right way to go ... Well, 
different people, different tastes ;-) 
  
Cheers 
 
Joachim 
 
 
 
 
 
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Joachim Werner 
 
 
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90475 Nürnberg 
 
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Tel.: +49 (0) 911/ 9 88 39 84 
 

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Re: [Zope-dev] The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-21 Thread Joachim Werner
Hi!

I am not too active on the Zope mailing lists any more because there is 
not too much time left for it. But this thread asks for a comment. So 
here it is:

First of all, I am not sure if the release policy of Zope 3, and the 
whole concept of doing a complete rewrite was right or wrong, but at 
least I don't see a much better alternative. Zope 2 really is getting 
ugly with its age, so just fixing it wouldn't really be too much fun.

What I've been missing in Zope 3 fro years now is a clear focus on a 
single target. Maybe that is the target of Zope 3: not solve a specific 
problem like web content management but be a general toolkit for 
building applications.

But I think it would have been a bit easier and much more efficient to 
start with a rather focussed project, let's say a web groupware system 
or a CMS, then make sure that things don't get too specific. That way 
there would have been a list of deliverables to test all the neat new 
features and concepts against, not just conceptual ideas.

As things are now, me and lots of other commercial Zope users never had 
the resources to really actively participate in Zope 3 because we have 
to earn our living, and that means applications for the end user if we 
don't want to charge for the toolkit (which is obviously no option).

Well, it's not too late for this. The world still doesn't have the 
perfect groupware or CMS application, and maybe Zope 3 can be a starting 
point for it.

The problem of Zope 2 is - don't kill me for saying that - Plone. Plone 
and its foundations in CMF have created a large momentum around a 
terribly horrible code base. Believe me or not, almost everything gets 
more complicated with CMF/Plone than with plain Zope. Building a 
framework on top of a broken framework on top of an ageing framework 
that is hardly documented isn't a very good idea after all. The 
shortcomings in Zope 2 itself should have been addressed and fixed, 
rather than reinventing most of its good parts poorly and keeping the 
bad parts. Send me a private mail for an extensive list of issues I see ;-)

There are quite a few Zope-based CMS solutions out there, and most of 
them are better than their commercial counterparts in many respects. But 
if we had managed to start a joint CMS effort (other than CMF, which is 
a failure by design) two or three years ago things would look even 
better now.

I am currently working on a prototype for a project management solution 
that is going to be used at SUSE LINUX AG. For that I am using plain 
Zope. No Archetypes, no Plone, no nothing. Why? Because while Zope 2 is 
ugly in many respects it still is the most beautiful solution in the 
Zope (2) community. The original Zope concept is great (having a 
filesystem-like structure of objects and a web-based frontend to work 
with it). What I expect from Zope 3 (at least as one part of the 
project) is a better replacement for Zope 2.

The few problems I have always had with Zope 2 haven't been addressed in 
Plone. They probably have been addressed in Zope 3. I'll have to find 
out. What I am looking for is a real rapid development tool for 
web-based (or at least distributed) applications. If Zope 3 doesn't 
deliver that then other solutions will win the war.**

Rapid development can only work if there is an easy-to-understand 
concept or basic paradigm in a system. Zope 2 is such a system. A lot of 
things just got ugly because too much bloat was added later. One of the 
best ideas with the worst implementation was ZClasses. ZClasses would be 
extremely useful if they really worked as expected. In the web frontend 
all we'd have needed is a separation between configuration stuff and 
data (e.g. using two or three tabs instead of one mixing everything). 
Zope 3 has addressed this issue quite well I guess.

What we should work on in the future is development tools for Zope. If I 
get the stuff I know about Zope 3 right it should be relatively easy to 
write IDEs (or plugins for existing IDEs) that add wizards, 
code-completion and lots of introspection, so that I don't have to learn 
all the API but can explore it while developing.

Add an UML-based or UML-inspired graphical frontend to do the 
application architecture.

Finally we need industry-strength performance. The last point is one of 
the most important ones. Zope 2 has lots of very nice features (like the 
ZODB, WebDAV access, etc.). Basically everything is there to replace a 
lot of the most recent Microsoft products (including their planned WinFS 
DB-like filesystem). We are just lacking the performance (mostly thanks 
to Python being a beautiful, but not really fast language).

That's from my part.

Cheers

Joachim

** A final question that is mainly aimed at the ZC people: What is the 
competition you are positioning Zope 3 against? I've never seen an 
answer to that quite important question ...

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[Zope-dev] Using the error log

2003-12-13 Thread Joachim Werner
Hi!

I'd like to use the Site Error Log facility to log errors from my 
application.

What I want to do is catch all errors that occur when a page is rendered 
and log them to the site error log. The pages rendered consist of many 
modules that can trigger their own errors.

On screen there should be a short error message at the place the error 
occurred and a link to the full log entry in the error log.

So what I'd need to know is:

a) How can I write errors to the log from an excep: block in Python?
b) How can I get back the log ID for that specific error log entry to 
use it in my application?

Is there any written documentation on how to hook up the error log?

Cheers

Joachim

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.7 Timeline

2003-08-27 Thread Joachim Werner
Hi!

WRT the Zope 2.7 timeline: Couldn't we just get a new beta that includes 
the most critical bug fixes very soon? If 2.7 doesn't get deployed on 
almost production systems there will not be too much further testing I 
guess. And currently most non-experts will not even be able to get a 
Zope 2.7b1 system up and running with additional Products.

The main issues that come to my mind are:

- Fixing the zope.conf so you don't need to manually add a path to the 
Products directory

- Some simple example in zope.conf to help with ZEO setups.

- The fixes to the VirtualHostMonster, so that the tab for configuring 
mappings is displayed again (fixed in the CVS)

I am willing to help with that. I'll just have to get my CVS checkin SSH 
certificates fixed first ...

And of course we could have a Zope 2.7 bug day, too.

Cheers

Joachim

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.7 Timeline

2003-08-27 Thread Joachim Werner
Chris McDonough wrote:
2.7.0b2 was released yesterday with both of these bugs fixed.  Is that
soon enough? ;-)
Yes it is ;-)

Sorry, I didn't check before ...

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Re: [Zope-dev] How (in)secure is Zope?

2003-03-13 Thread Joachim Werner
Christian Tismer schrieb:
Dear Zope community,

please excuse my ignorance, but I am asked
from time to time how secure or insecure
Zope actually is, and I always have to say
that I actually don't know.
There are people claiming that Zope opens a system
to quite some level, others claim the opposite.
Can someone please enlighten me and give me some
details? Especially, are there some Zope products
considered especially insecure?
And, pondering more on security, are these issues,
if they exist, bounded to Zope itself, or becomes
a system generally more open to attacks, after
Zope was installed?
I don't mean to offend anybody by this, it is just
a very simple question which I cannot answer alone.
thanks so much in advance -- chris
I think to be fair here we should compare Zope's security to the 
security of other similar tools, not only point out that there still are 
issues in Zope.

It is extremely difficult to write secure web software that is at the 
same time highly interactive. If you want people to be able to do a lot 
with your system you will also have to open it up to some degree.

My basic oppinion is that Zope is one of the most secure solutions for 
dynamic web applications.

Some of the issues that have not been talked about in the previous postings:

- Products that let you access the file system:

There is a number of products (like LocalFS) that let you access the 
file system directly. While this is not always a problem one has to be 
extremely careful with those because they circumvent Zope's access 
limitations to the file system. Of course you are still restricted to 
the user Zope is running at ...

- Products or methods that can use up a lot of resources:

I can think of a couple of ways of using up most of the resources on a 
Zope system:

  - Using PIL (Python Imaging Library) without care: Let's say you offer
an automatic image scaling tool to your users that can be called via
a URL. Then it is relatively easy for an attacker to let PIL create
huge images that might take several seconds to render and use up
tens of megabytes of RAM. Doing this in a massive way will bring the
server to a halt. There are similar exploits using other resource-
intensive software, so this is just an example.
Note that this is not a Zope design flaw, but a potential danger
when being too careless in extending Zope.
  - Uploading huge files: This can effectively be handled by a proxy
server (Apache can also limit most other DOS-related parameters
quite efficiently)
  - Doing things that are perfectly allowed too frequently, like
hammering the over-the-web registration tool with a robot: This
has to be taken care of by the programmer. I'd guess that most of
the servers out there (Zope or non-Zope) are not perfect in that
respect. Again, Apache might help here.
  - Writing malicious code that loops forever etc. This is a part
where Zope's security works quite well, but it is not perfect.
There are no infinite loops or recursions because you'll
eventually get stopped by Zope or Python. But I remember that I
was able to write a three-liner in a (Script) Python that had a
flaw and caused an enormous system load before it was terminated.
The only way to stop this is careful coding. In a very public
environment I'd limit the scripting available to site visitors to
very simple tools like structured text. As soons as somebody
untrusted can write code there is no way of preventing DOS-type
attacks. Powerful tools are powerful. It's like guns: They can not
be built to only kill the bad guys ...
- Cross-scripting issues:

I guess that some of those are still in the Zope Management Interface 
(which is not meant to be used by untrusted users in most cases), but 
Zope offers a lot of tools to make sure that it is hard to post 
malicious code in forums, attack Zope via URLs etc.

For example there are quoting mechanisms in place, either automatic or 
easily applicable, that can be used to protect SQL strings, URLs, and 
text that is displayed on the site. The majority of exploits in PHP- or 
Perl-based solutions is in this domain.

It is safe to say Zope is more secure than most other web application 
servers (protection against buffer overflows, limited access to the 
system's resources, very limited file system access, quoting mechanisms, 
secure SQL database access, very sophisticated internal security model), 
but Zope is not a firewall. If you don't take care there is some chance 
of DOS attacks. On the other hand I am quite positive that Zope is very 
secure in terms of preventing unauthorized access to the system (root 
exploits etc.).

Joachim

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[Zope-dev] Pydoc and Zope

2003-03-11 Thread Joachim Werner
Hi!

I've used Pydoc with Dieter Maurer's patches to browse the Zope
sourcecode before.
These patches are quite old and probably incompatible with current Zope
versions.
Is there a HOWTO for using Pydoc with a current Zope? Are there any new
adapted versions of Pydoc? Or is there any better way of browsing the
source code?
Cheers

Joachim

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[Zope-dev] Fuzziness in tracebacks ...

2003-03-10 Thread Joachim Werner
Hi!

I am using Zope 2.6.1 with Python 2.2.2, knowing that this is not
officially supported.
There are no problems in general, but one thing really is annoying:

I start getting tracebacks that only indicate the line in the code where
the method that caused the traceback started. I don't get the actual
line of the error traced down.
This might be completely independent of using Python 2.2.2, so I'd like
to know if anybody else has made similar experiences with 2.6.1.
Another issue that might or might not be related is that I am getting
plain white pages rendered by ZPT if there is an error calling a
variable or so. Errors in the ZPT syntax and some runtime errors are
raised properly, but others just cause a white page to be rendered,
which is very hard to debug without using a debugger.
Joachim

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Re: [Zope-dev] implementing structured text alternative w/in Zope

2003-03-07 Thread Joachim Werner
Toby Bologna schrieb:
Hi,

I'm a programmer but new to Zope. I'm developing a text markup language
like Structured Text that better suits my needs outside the Zope/Python
world. Would I be able to incorporate it within Zope, i.e., so I could
edit the new format in the edit window and have it displayed as HTML by
the server, handled as a Zope object, etc.?
I'd like to do it as transparently as (on the lowest level) possible,
but if it turns out I have to do it as a feature of a product, that
will be OK. Any tips for either scenario much appreciated.
Of course you can do that with Zope. You'll find quite a few examples of 
new markup languages for Zope if you browse the Products list on zope.org.

You definitely will have to write a product for this.

You need a basic method or document object (like DTMLMethod). Writing or 
adapting the over-the-web edit screens is simple. The harder part will 
be the parser that generates the HTML for you. But I guess you know how 
to do this.

There is one thing that might be trickier than you'd expect: If you want 
to have the same security features as in DTML or ZPT (i.e. checking for 
every method call and attribute if the viewer has the permissions to 
execute/view them) you will have to implement much of that on your own 
in the language parser.

Note that if you keep it as simple as structured text you won't need to 
care about the security issue. In structured text you don't call other 
code or attributes ...

The document object will have to implement a __call__() (or 
index_html()) method for it. This method has to take the code (that is 
stored in a property of the object) and render it. Then you just 
return the result at the end. It's really not that difficult, and if 
you take a similar product and look at the code it is relatively easy to 
understand.

Be sure that you read the Zope Developers Guide on zope.org first!

Joachim

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Re: [Zope-dev] [BUG] Quadratic ZODB bloat caused by PathIndex

2003-02-21 Thread Joachim Werner
Andreas Jung schrieb:



--On Donnerstag, 20. Februar 2003 08:05 +0100 Dieter Maurer 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Zope 2.5.1

A PathIndex maps (pathsegment,level) onto the IISet of document ids
with pathsegment at level in their path.

An IISet is a single persistent object, written as a whole to
the ZODB. Its size is proportional to the number of entries.
Therefore a ZODB storage with undo support grows quadratically
with respect to the number of entries (between packs).

The standard path index indexes based on the physical path.
Therefore, the size of the index entry of (at least) one
of the top level pathsegments is in the order of all indexed
objects.

Once, you have lots of indexed objects you will observe
significant ZODB growth between packs.


The fix would be easy: PathIndex should use IITreeSet rather
than IISet to store the document id lists (as do other indexes).
(There are more bugs in PathIndex: e.g. it does not remove
old index information when a new index_object brings in new data.
A code review would be appropriate.)


A quick workaround: delete the path index unless you really need it.




I am going to fix the problem for Zope 2.5, 2.6 and HEAD
next week.


I don't know if that's related, but I had cases where an empty index 
(all cataloged items removed, all lexicons or vocabularies removed) 
still had a size of around 6 MB (when exported in *.zexp format). That 
means that some stuff is not deleted correctly.

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Offtopic: it's vs. its

2003-02-21 Thread Joachim Werner

http://david.tribble.com/text/misspell.htm
Could we add that to the Zope 3 styleguide? ;-)



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Re: [Zope-dev] Security-Problem

2003-02-18 Thread Joachim Werner
Andre Schubert schrieb:

Hi all,

i have a little Security-Problem which results in the following Error
reported by Shane Hathaway's nice VerboseSecurity:

Error Type: Unauthorized
Error Value: The owner of the executing script does not have the required permission. Access to 'foobar' of (Folder instance at 932b600) denied. Access requires View_Permission, granted to the following roles: ['MSAdmin', 'Manager']. The executing script is (DTMLMethod instance at 8c8a508), owned by foo, who has the roles ['Authenticated', 'Owner'].

I try to explain what happens.
Lets say i have a user called foo who has Manager-Roles across a Zope-site.
foo has added 2 DTMLMethods to a folder called bar and foobar.
foobar is called from inside bar (dtml-call foobar).
He also created a Role MSAdmin.
bar is accessible and visible by Anonymous Users.
foobar is accessible and visible by MSAdmin and Manager.
If i view bar and login as a user with MSAdmin-Roles everything works fine.
But if i remove the Manager-Role from foo who has created the two DTMLMethods i get the above error.

I have the same problem with a really big Zope-Site where i have the remove Manager-Roles
from a specific user. The only solution i have found is to recreate the DTMLMethods, but
it is very hard to reacreate all DTMLMethods created by foo.

I hope somebody has another hint for me. :)


Non-authoritative answer:

As far as I know the problem is ownership. If you want to access objects 
whose owner is gone you get into trouble.

So there are probably two solutions:

a) DO NOT delete the owner
b) Let somebody else take over the ownership



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Re: [Zope-dev] [Bug] Zope's transaction behaviour flawed

2003-02-03 Thread Joachim Werner
Toby Dickenson schrieb:

On Sunday 02 February 2003 3:40 pm, Dieter Maurer wrote:



This is flawed as error handling is done outside of a transaction.



Excellent analysis. A futher problem is that this could cause dangling 
references, and a subsequent POSKeyError, since persistent objects can be 
passed from one transaction to the next inside the exception and traceback.

The same applies to your prorosed fix. Is there a need to allow the error 
handling transaction to commit? I propose it always be aborted.


When exactly can we get these dangling references? We are experiencing 
POSKeyErrors quite frequently these days. It's always the same: Some 
objects seem to become dangling references because of something we 
don't know yet. It's always objects that have been commited recently, 
though I don't know exactly if there always is an error involved that 
might interrupt the commit in some way (No feedback from the users). 
Then when the database is packed the objects are removed, and 
POSKeyErrors are the result.

We are heavily depending on sessions, so the scenario you are describing 
could be our problem.

How hard would it be to get this patched for Zope 2.6.1 final? At least 
as an option that can be activated when needed?

--

iuveno AG

Joachim Werner

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Re: [Zope-dev] 2.6.1b2?

2003-01-23 Thread Joachim Werner
Hi,

I'd just like to know when can we expect a 2.6.1b2. It would be nice to
have a new release where we don't have to patch just to get ZClasses to
work.


Yes, it IS indeed a problem if there is no single Zope version out there 
that can be used without patches. 2.6.0 has the DateTime bug, the 
2.6.1b1 has new issues. I have complained a lot about the lousy release 
management in the past, but nobody seems to listen.

Joachim

P.S.: After all, it's so easy: Take a Zope version that has some bugs, 
fix the bugs and release it as a bugfix release. DON'T add features that 
might trigger new bugs. THEN start working on the next feature release.

AND: THERE SHOULD NEVER, I REPEAT: NEVER BE NEW FUNCTIONALITY OR CODE 
CHANGES BETWEEN A FINAL BETA AND A RELEASE! IF IT IS NOT FINAL; RELEASE 
ANOTHER BETA!!


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[Zope-dev] Strange bug (NOT a Zope bug!) when exporting Zope objects on Windows with Norton Personal Firewall running ...

2002-11-13 Thread Joachim Werner
Hi!

I just encountered a very strange bug: One of our clients had problems with
exporting and importing his stuff from his local machine to our servers.
What happened was that lines like

 meta name=keywords content=dtml-var keywords

became

 meta name=keywords content=dtml-var keywords

and



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[Zope-dev] Strange bug (NOT a Zope bug!) when exporting Zope objects on Windows with Norton Personal Firewall running ...

2002-11-13 Thread Joachim Werner
Hi!

Sorry for the corrupted mail. I just hit some button by accident and the
mail was gone ...

Here is the full text:

I just encountered a very strange bug: One of our clients had problems with
exporting and importing his stuff from his local machine to our servers.
What happened was that lines like

 meta name=keywords content=dtml-var keywords

became

 meta name=keywords content=dtml-var keywords

and

img src=dtml-var imageUrl

became

img src=dtml-var imageUrl,

which of course broke the HTML (I know that one could use the dtml entity
syntax instead, but that's not the point here).

We didn't have a clue why that would happen and suspected some
incompatibility with character sets involved (He was on Windows with Zope
2.5.1 and we had Linux and Zope 2.6.0).

But the solution was that as soon as the client had deactivated his Norton
Personal Firewall and Norton Antivirus, everything was o.k. again!

So this is NOT a Zope bug, but maybe it helps to know about the problem. The
Firewall or Antivirus software (we think it is the Firewall) seem to parse
the code (regardless whether you do a zexp or xml export) and replace
characters ...

The funny thing is that this seems to happen even if the Zope server runs
locally!

Cheers

Joachim

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Re: [Zope-dev] HTTP content negotiation-- has anyone tried this in Zope?

2002-11-13 Thread Joachim Werner
Hi!

We've talked a lot about that when we discussed Zope I18N some time ago.
Most of this is relatively easy to accomplish even now.

Regarding language negotiation: Both Localizer and ZBabel do this. The
problem in my practical experience is that most people do not configure
their browsers correctly. This is especially true with people having English
instead of localized browser versions (e.g. in large corporations), but at
the same time not expecting
to get The Web in English only ... -- I hope that this will change ...

With regard to content type: I had a proposal some time ago that I still
think to be cool, but that didn't get too much attention:

If we used object names without any .whatever suffixes, we could easily
provide handlers for different output formats.

An example:

Let's say you upload an OpenOffice text file in XML format. It is called
myFile.sxw. It will actually be stored as a folderish object called
myFile that contains all the items of an OpenOffice file (which is a
zipped folder of content, stylesheet, and image files). You could then
retrieve it as HTML, using myFile.sxw, as a MS Word document, using
myFile.doc, etc. etc.

This might not be the right thing as a Zope default. But in a document
management context this would just be marvelous. The decision what file
format to return could be handled via content type negotiation, or via an
explizit URL containing the suffix. The only thing that still is not quite
obvious to me is how to handle FTP or WebDAV requests. One could display ALL
options, or just the default one.

 I try to keep tabs on other open source CMSs, in particular Apache Cocoon,
and
 I noticed this message:

 http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-devm=103717736917834w=2

 talking about software that, in effect, enables one to configure a server
to respond
 to
 the HTTP headers having to do with content negotiation: preferred charset,
preferred
 language, and content-type.

 This is way cool stuff-- imagine an application capable of returning an
XML
 representation
 of a resource instead of a human-readable XHTML simply based on the HTTP
 header-- same URL.

 ASIDE: This is in line with TBL's original vision of the web and
 is being adopted by high profile organizations like google-- it has
supported
 Accept-Language
 for at least a year-- change the list of acceptable languages to
demonstrate it in a
 browser...

 Question: has anyone tried to support this kind of thing using Zope yet?
I imagine
 it should be possible, b/c you should have access to everything you need
in the
 REQUEST object, right?

 If one agrees that this is a good idea, then wouldn't it be cool to have a
set of
 ready-made components in Zope3 to facilitate switching on relevant HTTP
 headers-- either for mime type, I18N, etc.?

 Thoughts?

 --Craeg


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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: What catalog/index to use ...

2002-11-09 Thread Joachim Werner
Hi!

 Please note that former Zope versions already include a  dedicated
 unicode-aware
 splitter that is already usable with the old TextIndex and maybe with
 ZCTextIndex.
 TextIndexNG resolves all these issues by doing the complete internal
 processing by
 converting the data into unicode. Every single processing step only
handles
 unicode
 data.

 Most older browsers should be able to handle at least UTF-8 as character
 set. This is
 sufficient for most cases.

The problem seems to be that ZCTextIndex indeed does not do the splitting
right if German Umlauts are used. There is no option for Unicode-aware
splitter. Instead of a Vocabulary it uses a Lexicon, which just offers two
options: HTML aware splitter and Whitespace splitter. I haven't tested
the whitespace splitter yet, but the HTML aware splitter did not do the
Umlaut thing right without the patch, i.e. it used umlauts as splitting
characters ...

So there is a bug  ...

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: What catalog/index to use ...

2002-11-09 Thread Joachim Werner
 I must've missed the start of this thread (I only just signed up for
 this list).  I didn't see any patch -- I thought it was just a gripe
 about ZCTextIndex.  Of course patches are welcome -- where can I find
 this particular patch?

Hi Guido!

I don't know where you would expect a patch to be found, but in this
particular case the Zope Collector is a good place to look:

http://collector.zope.org/Zope/597

Use the collector, Luke! ;-)


Joachim


P.S.: I guess most of the people on the zope-dev list have some clue on how
to write their own splitters, but the message of my gripe was that
something worked o.k. (for the dumb end user) with the old TextIndex and
doesn't with the thing that is advertised on the Add form as the
replacement, and that just isn't cool.



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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: What catalog/index to use ...

2002-11-08 Thread Joachim Werner
Hi!

Some additional remarks: While making the splitting dependent on the locale
settings (as done in the old TextIndex) helps with most use cases, I'm not
sure if that is the right thing to do in the long run. Locale settings are
good for client software, i.e. if you want to have a program behave German
for a German user etc.

But a web server might be located in the U.S., but frequented by
German-speaking and Spanish-speaking users. Or even users from China or
Japan. In these cases only Unicode will help I think. After all you can not
have more than one locale at a time. But honestly I still don't understand
the Unicode thing good enough. My main concern is whether a Unicode-enabled
site will still work with older browsers and for all platforms ...

 Casey Duncan wrote:
  The main reason I have not merged this already is that I lack a sample
to make
  a new test with. If someone can provide me with some content samples
that
  break now, but work with the patch, I will make a new test and checkin
the
  fix for 2.7 perhaps 2.6.1 if desired.
 
  -Casey

 hi Casey,

 try some words with german umlaute. things like:

 mülltonne
 waschbär
 behörde
 überflieger

 the last one will work without the patch. explanation: the first
 character is splitted away [non-ascii-character] [both for storing the
 word in the Lexicon and resolving the query-words through the
 queryparser]. so it will in both cases end up in

 berflieger

 searching for 'überflieger' will give you correct results. this is the
 reason, why some people think, that ZCTextIndex works with german
 'umlaute', but it does not...;-)

This patch will probably not hurt anybody. And it would make ZCTextIndex
behave like TextIndex.

OT:

I don't want to be too pedantic about that, but usually I'd expect a
replacement to really replace all of the functionality of the thing it
replaces.
TextIndex was locale-aware (and this was even documented somewhere), so
switching to ZCTextIndex should not break anything, at least not in a Zope
final.

But that's what I've told you all the time: Why do you make things final
releases before they are really tested? 2.6.0 has a really bad bug with the
DateTime module (Lennart Regebro has provided a fix for it:
http://www.zope.org/Members/regebro/datetime_260_fix) that was introduced
after 2.6.0b1. This just shouldn't be possible ...

Anybody listening? ;-)

Cheers

Joachim


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[Zope-dev] What catalog/index to use ...

2002-11-07 Thread Joachim Werner
Hi!

Currently there are at least three options for doing full text indexing with
ZCatalog:

- good old TextIndex
- ZCTextIndex
- TextIndexNG

TextIndex basically works fine for me and handles German umlauts well (if
you use the right locale settings in the Zope start skript), but ZCTextIndex
is generally better, except that it does not handle umlauts correctly as far
as I can see. So without a bug fix ZCTextIndex is good for US, but not for
us ;-)

Then there is Andreas Jung's TextIndexNG, which seems to be really
impressive.

What are the plans for Zope 2.6.x/2.7? Will ZCTextIndex be replaced by
TextIndexNG?

Does it make sense to get ZCTextIndex fixed (there seems to be a patch in
the collector already) or should I go with TextIndexNG? If yes, is it ready
for production environments?

Cheers

Joachim

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iuveno AG
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Tel. +49 (0) 911 / 988398-4
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[Zope-dev] Unicode Support in 2.6 -- background infos?

2002-11-04 Thread Joachim Werner
Hi!

I am currently fighting with the unicode support in Zope 2.6. Actually the
problem is that I don't want to get pages delivered as unicode. Is the exact
behavior of that thingie documented somewhere? Or could someone please give
me a hint on how it works?

The actual case is that I have a formulator form that sometimes is displayed
correctly (that is with the good old Western ISO encoding) and sometimes in
Unicode UTF-8. Which then results in broken German umlauts ...

I know that I can force Unicode mode by having some unicode string on the
page. But can I also do the reverse?

Cheers

Joachim
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Re: [Zope-dev] This was fun!!!

2002-10-15 Thread Joachim Werner

I won't look into the DTML Parser code right now. Don't need no headache ;-)

But this is my first guess:

  dtml-if getEasyLanguageService

DTML looks at getEasyLanguageService and does an implicit
getEasyLanguageService(). So now getEasyLanguageService (as an attribute
in the DTML namespace) represents the actual service object the method
should return.

dtml-let ELS=getEasyLanguageService

ELS represents the service object now

dtml-in getAllLanguages
  dtml-var ELS.getLanguageByRFC3066(_['sequence-item'])

the getLanguageByRFC3066() method of the service object is called


And here it fails because:


  dtml-if is_language_aware() and getEasyLanguageService()

getEasyLanguageService() is called explicitly, and in the , so DTML does
no magic. It does NOT put the returned service object into the namespace as
getEasyLanguageService (as it would do in the first example)

dtml-let ELS=getEasyLanguageService

the method getEasyLanguageService, not its return value (i.e. the language
service object) is passed to ELS

dtml-in getAllLanguages
  dtml-var ELS.getLanguageByRFC3066(_['sequence-item'])

This fails because Zope tries to get the getLanguageByRFC3066() method of
the method (or function) getEasyLanguageService (without ()), and that is
not allowed here.

Yep

Joachim





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[Zope-dev] Multiple entries in the Index menu ... (Zope 2.6.1 b1)

2002-10-09 Thread Joachim Werner

Hello!

I am getting multiple identical entries in the Add menu of the indexes page
of my ZCatalogs with Zope 2.6.1 b1. Is it just me?

Could be a minor bug with filtering the all_meta_types or
filtered_meta_types ...

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: zdaemon fix

2002-10-05 Thread Joachim Werner

 While we're improving zdaemon, I have two other suggestions:

 - Use grown-up language in log messages rather than Aiieee! and
   Houston, we have forked

I think you are right, but from an emotional point of view, I'll be missing
Houston very much. This kind of stuff gave Zope a personal note. It's like
Easter Eggs in desktop applications: You should have some of them ...

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] http://cvs.zope.org/Products/Scheduler vs Xron for cron-like functionality. Advice?

2002-10-05 Thread Joachim Werner

 Hi All,
 I'm interested in starting to maintain Xron, if it has potential to be a
 stable products.
  From the code it doesn't seem to do any strange things, but I would
 like to know if anybody has experience of using it in a production
 environment, or any other experiences and that would recommend not
 using it in a production environment.

We are using it, but there seem to be some problems. One of them is that I
frequently have cases where Xron doesn't reschedule properly (I am using the
improved user interface stuff for Xron, so the bug could also be in there).
What happens is that an event that is scheduled for daily execution at
midnight will not be rescheduled for the next day after it was executed, but
reset to the year 1970, which actually means it is switched off.

The other problem is more obvious, but still it is a major issue: Xron seems
to be incompatible with ZEO at the moment. The reason why is that the Xron
process starts on every ZEO client machine, so everything is executed more
than once. I could think of two policies to get around that, both of which
should be selectable as an option on a per-event base:

- Xron just runs on one server, e.g. the one that is on the fastest machine;
this is useful for cases where you need the events to be executed on the
same machine all the time, e.g. if you want to write stuff to the server's
local file system

- Xron runs on all servers (i.e. ZEO clients), but on a first come first
serve base, i.e. the server that executes the event first blocks the others
from doing so, too.

Another issue is that Xron will use the current virtual host settings when
it executes and reschedules an event. That means that the entries in the
Xron Schedule ZCatalog will have different URLs. In some cases the URL that
is used to execute an event could be important. E.g., we use Apache with
some tricky rewrite rules in front of Zope, and to get around the Apache
server the Zope server has to be called from a different URL.

I am willing to help with maintaining Xron, especially the part concerning
ZEO, because we really need it ...

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] http://cvs.zope.org/Products/Scheduler vs Xron for cron-like functionality. Advice?

2002-10-05 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

OT: I am going to switch to some other mail client soon. It's unbelievable
that Outlook Express still doesn't do the  thing right :-(

- Xron just runs on one server, e.g. the one that is on the fastest
machine;
this is useful for cases where you need the events to be executed on the
same machine all the time, e.g. if you want to write stuff to the server's
local file system

Seems like the most sensible to me.
This should be possible to do by splitting the product in two?
The Dispatcher and the Scheduler. The Scheduler gets installed on both
server and clients but the Dispatcher only gets installed on the server that
should run the triggers.

The reason why I think this behaviour should be optional is that there might
be different scenarios. There even might be a scenario where an event should
be triggered on all of the servers. But for a start I'd be happy if at least
the events are not called more than once.

I also would like to have a Dispatch monitor ttw where the thread can be
start and stopped and the log could be read.

Would be nice indeed.

Possibly having multiple Dispatcher (for Virtual Hosting situations), which
creates another problem because the Dispatcher is started during
product instanciation there must be a registry of Dispatchers or someway
to start the distributed Dispatcher. For example if the server is
restarted.

Yep :-|

One potential problem would also be notification of failure.
I belive I've seen a zLOG email notification product what might be useful.

Yes.

- Xron runs on all servers (i.e. ZEO clients), but on a first come first
serve base, i.e. the server that executes the event first blocks the others
from doing so, too.

This would need some kind of inter-process locking, which I think should be
provided by ZEO. I'm presently not aware of any such services in ZEO?

ZEO can't really do that at the moment. It's really just doing ZODB stuff,
which is very limited in scope. What you can do of course is just use a
global status parameter in the ZODB, but the only effect that would have is
that the first one to set that status parameter would make the other
processes fail and roll back. But a lot of stuff, like sending mails, can
hardly be rolled back ...

Another issue is that Xron will use the current virtual host settings when
it executes and reschedules an event. That means that the entries in the
Xron Schedule ZCatalog will have different URLs. In some cases the URL that
is used to execute an event could be important. E.g., we use Apache with
some tricky rewrite rules in front of Zope, and to get around the Apache
server the Zope server has to be called from a different URL.

I've noticed that Xcron uses ZPublishers client to trigger events.
This seems a bit out-dated to me, wouldn't it be better to use
restrictedTraverse?

After looking at Xron in more detail and comparing it to the Scheduler stuff
in the Zope CVS, I guess that going the Scheduler way is probably more
promising in the long run. Xron seems to have quite a few major design
flaws. One I haven't mentioned yet is that you can only trigger DTML
methods. In a modern Zope installation, you'd probably want to call Scripts
(Python) more often, though of course you can call everything FROM DTML ...

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Plone/Metadata/FUD

2002-10-03 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

I could comment for hours on the postings in this thread (after rereading
what I've just written below I actually did ;-)). But let me just take this
to say what is most important to me:

 In the world of Zope 3, this distinction will be even more clear.  Zope
 2 unfortunately tried too much to be an enduser product, causing
 confusion.  Zope 3 will clearly say: This is for developers.

Paul, you are talking about a point that is very critical to Zope's future.
Many of us started using Zope in the first place because it was a cool,
out-of-the box product. Zope 1.x, as well as the early versions of Zope 2.x,
could be described as a feature-complete, easy-to-customize content
mangement system for a small number of users, with support for integration
of data from SQL and other external sources and for writing nice little
dynamic apps. You just needed some DTML, not really do any real programming,
be it in Python or DTML. And the separation of programming vs. just
customizing was rather obvious. With the limited possibilities of DTML it
was impossible to do real coding, which was a good thing.

The Zope Management Interface (ZMI) worked fine if you had just a few
templates, like a customized index_html, standard_html_header, etc. The
Add-list was short, and even security worked fine with just a few Products
installed and just a few users to map roles to, which you would have to map
Permissions to.

Then a lot of stuff was added, most of it very cool, but not always fitting
into the original concept. ZClasses where the best and the worst idea of all
at the same time. And they also are a good example of a Zope component that
was over-hyped at first and then dropped like a hot potatoe (others are XML
support, Mozilla support, and to some extent even the CMF). Before ZC
started the documentation efforts, a Zope newbie would have no clue whether
it was better to work with ZClasses or file-based products.

Now things are, to an extent, even worse. To work with Zope and really get
the most out of it, you need to know Python (even in the ZMI, as Python
scripts are the preferred way of coding little helper methods), DTML
(because ZPT can't do everything), and ZPT. This is really confusing for a
lot of people.

The thing I hate most is that there are really useful helper methods and
classes in lib/python/App (and also in some other obscure places) that are
frequently used by the ZMI itself. But this stuff is mostly undocumented and
obviously written by ZMI-designers for ZMI-designers. E.g.: Zope copypaste
support is cool. But there is no easy way of using it in customized user
interfaces, as all the methods return you back to some ZMI page.

So while obviously Paul is right that Zope 3 should be focussed at the
developer and mainly provide well-tested, well-documented, low-level tools
for doing great things, Zope (3) will only survive if we get a lot of a lot
people using it. And as most people are NOT developers, they will need
end-user products that are based on Zope. Otherwise Zope will get lost.

If Zope 3 is meant to be a developer's tool then it will play in the league
of BEA WebLogic, IBM WebSphere. Those products are powerful and expensive.
And they are so complicated to use that you need experts to work with them.
So the market segment is very interesting, but limited to large corporate
clients.

Most of the users Zope currently has are probably using it as an alternative
not to an application server but to either Apache+PHP/Perl or to a CMS.
Virtually all the hosting customers we have at iuveno run no custom
products. Some of them use existing ones like Squishdot or the CMF, some use
ZClasses. So for them Zope IS the product, not the platform.

Most of the consulting jobs Zope services companies can get will not be in
the 100.000-1.000.000 EUR or $ range, but smaller in size. So the budget is
large enough to customize an existing product, but not to write one from
scratch, regardless how cool the platform is. I am quite sure that you can
write a lot of stuff much quicker in Zope/Python than you'd get it done in
Java, let alone C. But still that's not good enough to survive. My opinion
is that what we as Zope-using services companies will need to survive is
ready-to-use products we can easily customize. Plone is one of those, though
I personally don't like all of it that much, Silva is another.

And now comes the part where the Zope community can fit in: Most CMS I know,
Zope-based or not, just try to do the same thing in slightly different ways.
I am positive that as an open source community we could do MUCH better if we
shared more of the development, not only on the Zope-level, but also and
maybe even mainly on the application level. For me, Zope 2 is not perfect,
but good enough to base applications on. So I would not necessarily need
Zope 3 from that point of view. It is also hard for me to contribute to Zope
3 if it stays so abstract.

An example: Contributing to the object hub is hard if you don't 

Re: [Zope-dev] Coroner's toolkit for zope, or how to figure out what went wrong.

2002-08-12 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

I know of exactly two cases that could really cause a ZODB loose data: if
you reach the 2GB limit with a Python not compiled for larger files and if
you reach the physical limit of your storage. That is, if your case doesn't
add a third one ...

Have you already tried the usual things, i.e. run fstest.py and/or
fsrecover.py? It's quite unlikely that you'd loose a whole tree, as the data
is not physically stored in trees, but added sequentially. You might have
deleted a tree, but that can be rolled back by getting rid of the ZODB
transaction that did the delete.

Cheers

Joachim Werner

- Original Message -
From: Romain Slootmaekers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 5:28 PM
Subject: [Zope-dev] Coroner's toolkit for zope, or how to figure out what
went wrong.


 Yo,

 we had a nasty crash of our zope server that we use for a b2b web
 application. The Data.fs ZODB lost a significant amount of data.

 At this point, we restored the Data.fs from our last backup and the
 server is back up and running. (breathing relieved)

 What worries me is that we have no clue whatsoever on what happened,
 besides the constatation that somehow, somewhere we lost a whole tree of
 objects.

 So does anyone have an object browser of the ZODB or some
 tools/procedures on how to find out what went wrong?

 I really hope we are not going to lose a lot of sleep because of this.


 TIA,

 Sloot.


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[Zope-dev] Corrupt Data.fs: Is there a way of fixing transaction ids?

2002-08-03 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

I have a really large Data.fs file (1.3 GB) that has a number of errors.
When I run the fstest.py script, I get this:

Problem: 109963117 object serialno 0x034573c4b6a2cb6e does not match
transaction id 0x034573c55c8c0dbb

How can I fix the Data.fs file? It should be possible to scan the Data.fs
and create correct serialnos or transaction ids for the broken entries. But
how exactly would I do that?

I'd also like to identify the corrupt entries (i.e. find out the Zope object
they belong to) to be able to eliminate them.

My ultimate question is how these corrupt entries can exist at all. The
Data.fs hit the 2 GB border once. So that could be a reason. But even then
it would be really nice for the ZODB to not write corrupt entries ...

Any help is appreciated ...

Thanks

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope hangs, with processes being idle ... (rather urgent problem)

2002-08-01 Thread Joachim Werner

   I have a Zope 2.5.1 using ZEO on Linux, with Apache as proxy server.
The two
   ZEO clients run fine for a couple of hours, and then suddenly one of
them
   stops responding. It's the type of Zope hangs when all processes are
fine,
   but ZServer just doesn't respond (load is very low, with the CPU 90%
idle,
   so it is not a performance issue or recursion problem).
  
   There is no error before this situation happens. The processes just
don't
   respond any more. The second ZEO keeps running, but that machine also
hangs
   from time to time, so I guess ZEO is not the problem, and the hardware
or
   any Linux-specific problems aren't either.
  
   When the ZServer hangs, I can not access it directly, so it is no
problem
   with the Apache.
  
   You see, I don't have any clue on what is happening here. The servers
worked
   fine for months, and I don't know what specific change could have
caused the
   problem.

   How can such a situation be debugged?

Dieter Maurer wrote:
 Maybe, you use the -M logging and analyse the log with Chris'
 requestprofiler. You may see unfinished requests.

Thanks! That's what I did. I think I found the problem: I have some Objects
that inherit from Image, and their data attribute (that's where the image
data is held) wasn't initialized correctly in some cases. So whenever
somebody tried to display one of those objects, Zope started streaming back
the image data, which made the request hang when the data attribute was
broken.

Cheers

Joachim



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[Zope-dev] Zope hangs, with processes being idle ... (rather urgent problem)

2002-07-31 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

I have a Zope 2.5.1 using ZEO on Linux, with Apache as proxy server. The two
ZEO clients run fine for a couple of hours, and then suddenly one of them
stops responding. It's the type of Zope hangs when all processes are fine,
but ZServer just doesn't respond (load is very low, with the CPU 90% idle,
so it is not a performance issue or recursion problem).

There is no error before this situation happens. The processes just don't
respond any more. The second ZEO keeps running, but that machine also hangs
from time to time, so I guess ZEO is not the problem, and the hardware or
any Linux-specific problems aren't either.

When the ZServer hangs, I can not access it directly, so it is no problem
with the Apache.

You see, I don't have any clue on what is happening here. The servers worked
fine for months, and I don't know what specific change could have caused the
problem.

How can such a situation be debugged?

Cheers

Joachim



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[Zope-dev] Massive Problems with sessions

2002-07-21 Thread Joachim Werner

Hello!

Suddenly I am getting massive problems with Zope 2.5.1 sessions. The Zope
instance was upgraded from 2.5.0 to 2.5.1 and has a lot more load now as it
is in production. Nothing else has changed I guess.

The problems:

Frequent duplicate key errors, and now a new one when I try to enter the
session_data container (standard install with a temporary folder storing the
sessions):

Site Error
An error was encountered while publishing this resource.

KeyError

Sorry, a site error occurred.

Traceback (innermost last):
  File
/usr/local/zope-instances/Zopes/Zope-2.5.1-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish
.py, line 151, in publish_module
  File
/usr/local/zope-instances/Zopes/Zope-2.5.1-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish
.py, line 114, in publish
  File
/usr/local/zope-instances/Zopes/Zope-2.5.1-src/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py,
line 159, in zpublisher_exception_hook
(Object: session_data)
  File
/usr/local/zope-instances/Zopes/Zope-2.5.1-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish
.py, line 98, in publish
  File
/usr/local/zope-instances/Zopes/Zope-2.5.1-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/mapply.
py, line 88, in mapply
(Object: manage_container)
  File
/usr/local/zope-instances/Zopes/Zope-2.5.1-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish
.py, line 39, in call_object
(Object: manage_container)
  File
/usr/local/zope-instances/Zopes/Zope-2.5.1-src/lib/python/App/special_dtml.p
y, line 61, in __call__
(Object: manage_container)
  File
/usr/local/zope-instances/Zopes/Zope-2.5.1-src/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/D
T_String.py, line 473, in __call__
(Object: manage_container)
  File
/usr/local/zope-instances/Zopes/Zope-2.5.1-src/lib/python/Products/Transienc
e/Transience.py, line 403, in nudge
(Object: session_data)
  File
/usr/local/zope-instances/Zopes/Zope-2.5.1-src/lib/python/Products/Transienc
e/Transience.py, line 364, in _getCurrentBucket
(Object: session_data)
  File
/usr/local/zope-instances/Zopes/Zope-2.5.1-src/lib/python/Products/Transienc
e/Transience.py, line 390, in _clean
(Object: session_data)
KeyError: 21934557A0Y4KtUyZjs

One additional information that might help: The session manager is used from
different URLs that point to the same Zope. Can this be the reason for
problems? Is there a way of fixing that, e.g. using certain path information
in the browser id manager?


Any hints?

Joachim



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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope-CMF] i18n for CMF And Plone, backporting i18n to Zope 2.x

2002-07-02 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

 Barry A. Warsaw writes:
   concerns.  After talking with Fred, I came to understand that much of
   the code's current obscurity is due to optimizations to make TAL
   perform at least as fast as DTML.

 Well, faster than it used to.  We need to spend time on performance.

Indeed. All my pseudo-benchmarking resulted in ZPT being up to 4 times
slower than DTML ...

Wouldn't it possible to precompile ZPT into Python bytecode or even
something more efficient? We've compared DTML and ZPT to working with Python
strings that get variables passed, and the later was way faster. Which is
more or less obvious as it does not do nearly the same DTML/ZPT do (i.e.
security checks and the like) ...

I'd probably be happy with some way of creating pseudo-dynamic templates
that only have dynamic hot spots, like server side includes in Apache, but
use precompiled or cached version of the template for the rest. The problem
is that most of the time we could use Zope + a cacheing proxy, except for
very small parts of the page that make it uncacheable as a whole ...

   So while I'd love to have the code be cleaner and more pluggable, we
   have to decide 1) if we're willing to give up some performance to
   acheive this, and 2) if not, can you provide a design and
   implementation that will perform adequately?

 It might be time to investigate Pyrex:

 http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/

This one sounds good ...

Joachim



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[Zope-dev] Wrong length for http requests!

2002-06-07 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

I am getting the following results from an ab (Apache benchmark) run against
a Zope site:

Concurrency Level:  20
Time taken for tests:   11.862 seconds
Complete requests:  40
Failed requests:23
   (Connect: 0, Length: 23, Exceptions: 0)
Total transferred:  1517831 bytes
HTML transferred:   1504991 bytes
Requests per second:3.37
Transfer rate:  127.96 kb/s received

Connnection Times (ms)
  min   avg   max
Connect:0 2 8
Processing:   326  4525  5953
Total:326  4527  5961

The failed requests are due to a length error. When I look at the detailed
log, I see differing lengths for requests to exactly the same page:

B 161954188 2002-06-07T20:55:01 GET /instances/KU/index_html
I 161954188 2002-06-07T20:55:01 0
A 162098188 2002-06-07T20:55:01 200 37947
E 162098188 2002-06-07T20:55:01
B 159004660 2002-06-07T20:55:01 GET /instances/KU/index_html
I 159004660 2002-06-07T20:55:01 0
A 159706548 2002-06-07T20:55:01 200 37963
E 159706548 2002-06-07T20:55:01
B 158147100 2002-06-07T20:55:01 GET /instances/KU/index_html
I 158147100 2002-06-07T20:55:01 0
A 159649356 2002-06-07T20:55:02 200 37923
E 159649356 2002-06-07T20:55:02

Does anybody know where that might come from? I will get into more detail on
how the page is generated if you need to know. But I'd need a first hint
where to look at first because there is lot of code involved ...

Cheers

Joachim







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Re: [Zope-dev] Wrong length for http requests!

2002-06-07 Thread Joachim Werner


- Original Message -
From: Joachim Werner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Andreas Jung [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Wrong length for http requests!


 Hi!

 I tried with more verbosity. The result is that the headers'
Content_Length
 differs.

 I now have a first guess on what happens: The page that is delivered is
not
 really static, but has a rotating news box. From a pool of news, random
news
 items are chosen and displayed.

 I use the random method to generate the random numbers. Is it possible
that
 the length calculation for the header uses a different random number than
 the method that selects the news? Maybe because the method is called
twice,
 once to calculate the length and once to actually serve the data?

 If yes, is there a workaround or fix?

 Cheers

 Joachim


 - Original Message -
 From: Andreas Jung [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Joachim Werner [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 9:11 PM
 Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Wrong length for http requests!


  Maybe the headers are different? Try to increase the verbosity level
  for ab to get the output of the headers and the payload. Maybe you can
  find something there.
 
  -aj
  - Original Message -
  From: Joachim Werner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 15:03
  Subject: [Zope-dev] Wrong length for http requests!
 
 
   Hi!
  
   I am getting the following results from an ab (Apache benchmark) run
  against
   a Zope site:
  
   Concurrency Level:  20
   Time taken for tests:   11.862 seconds
   Complete requests:  40
   Failed requests:23
  (Connect: 0, Length: 23, Exceptions: 0)
   Total transferred:  1517831 bytes
   HTML transferred:   1504991 bytes
   Requests per second:3.37
   Transfer rate:  127.96 kb/s received
  
   Connnection Times (ms)
 min   avg   max
   Connect:0 2 8
   Processing:   326  4525  5953
   Total:326  4527  5961
  
   The failed requests are due to a length error. When I look at the
 detailed
   log, I see differing lengths for requests to exactly the same page:
  
   B 161954188 2002-06-07T20:55:01 GET /instances/KU/index_html
   I 161954188 2002-06-07T20:55:01 0
   A 162098188 2002-06-07T20:55:01 200 37947
   E 162098188 2002-06-07T20:55:01
   B 159004660 2002-06-07T20:55:01 GET /instances/KU/index_html
   I 159004660 2002-06-07T20:55:01 0
   A 159706548 2002-06-07T20:55:01 200 37963
   E 159706548 2002-06-07T20:55:01
   B 158147100 2002-06-07T20:55:01 GET /instances/KU/index_html
   I 158147100 2002-06-07T20:55:01 0
   A 159649356 2002-06-07T20:55:02 200 37923
   E 159649356 2002-06-07T20:55:02
  
   Does anybody know where that might come from? I will get into more
 detail
  on
   how the page is generated if you need to know. But I'd need a first
hint
   where to look at first because there is lot of code involved ...
  
   Cheers
  
   Joachim
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
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Re: [Zope-dev] Wrong length for http requests!

2002-06-07 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

I finally got it:

It's not Zope that causes any trouble, it's ab. It seems to expect identical
sizes for the pages retrieved. What I checked was commit a change to a test
page (which was absolutely static) in the middle of an ab run. The result
was almost 55% failed requests ...

Cheers

Joachim



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Re: [Zope-dev] Ordered Folder (was: Speaking of 2.6...)

2002-04-23 Thread Joachim Werner

OrderedFolder is not about having an ordered default view in the management
interface. The point is that people want to build menus or web pages that
consist of several objects in a folder, using objectValues()/objectIds().
Without OrderedFolder or a similar approach it is very hard to position
objects in a menu or on a web site.

OrderedFolder has the API to move stuff up or down, insert objects at a
given position, etc. ...

I consider that VERY useful ...

Cheers

Joachim

- Original Message -
From: Lennart Regebro [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Ordered Folder (was: Speaking of 2.6...)


 From: Florent Guillaume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Also do we want all folders to be ordered by default ?

 I wouldn't want this. I don't know how ordered folder works nowadays, but
I
 want it sorted on name by default.





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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.6 project updated

2002-03-06 Thread Joachim Werner

 I don't know OrderedFolder very well but it'd be very useful in several
 of my projects, so I can volunteer a bit of time in helping to get it
 in Zope 2.6 as well.


Hi Martijn!

If you do so, please check with me for the newest version of Ordered Folder.
I have added a few features to OrderedFolder that I need for Kontentor. Some
of them might be candidates for Zope 2.6, others maybe not.

Currently, OrderedFolder has:

- ordering support
- filters (from the FolderFilter Product)
- a maximum items support (not fully implemented yet)
- properties to define a custom icon and MetaType
- integrated transparency as an option (from Transparent Folders)
- subobject type support

Cheers

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 2.6 project updated

2002-03-06 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

 That is Stephan's product, not mine, and it *may* have some issues in
 certain OS distributions (based on my experiences and another user's).
So,
 it cannot be added itself without some work--further testing work if
nothing
 else.

What kind of problems does OrderedFolder have? There is no OS-specific code
AFAIK. It is possible that there are browser-specific issues in the
frontend. But those would be easy to fix ...

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] ZMI textareas on Windows IE6 are '100%+' wide, cause scrolling inconvenience

2002-02-09 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

I think the problem is more severe. IE 6 has obviously changed behaviour
compared to IE 5.5. I'd call it a bug. It now always calculates 100% with
the right-hand bar's width INCLUDED, so there are other side-effects than
the one you are describing, like the last tab on the right being partially
covered by the scroll bar.

So if we change the HTML, it should limit the width of the WHOLE right-hand
frame, not just the textarea's width ...

Unfortunately this will only work automatically with some browser detection
...

Joachim


- Original Message -
From: Jeff Kowalczyk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 3:02 AM
Subject: [Zope-dev] ZMI textareas on Windows IE6 are '100%+' wide, cause
scrolling inconvenience


 On my Zope 2.5.0 running on WindowsXP/IE6, the ZMI's textarea boxes, for
 things like editing PageTemplates, becomes too wide for the frame when
 the vertical scrollbar is required, causing an inconvenient
 side-scrolling behavior. The frame must be scrolled sideways to view the
 text areas's scrollbars, which then obsures the far left of the
 textarea.

 This is the code in question (for a PT edit page, there are many others)
   Expand macros when editing
 /td
   /tr
   tr
 td align=left valign=top colspan=4
   div style=width: 100%;
   textarea name=text:text wrap=off style=width: 100%;
 cols=40 rows=15lt;html metal:define-macro=pagegt;

 Would it not help to make the textarea and div width 90% or so to
 account for the potential width of the side-scroll bar on the right-hand
 ZMI frame? Or even better, this could become a preference setting, since
 some users will have very narrow scrollbars or extreme vertical
 resolutions. After all, there is a cols/rows insertion right next to it,
 perhaps a new preference setting is easy enough to add...


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[Zope-dev] Benchmarks: DTML vs. ZPT?

2002-02-06 Thread Joachim Werner

Hello!

Has anyone done any performance comparisons between DTML and ZPT yet? The
reason I'm asking is that we did some first(completely unscientific) tests
and had the impression that ZPT were actually quite a bit SLOWER than DTML -
and I just can't believe that ...

Joachim


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[Zope-dev] hiding tabs in manage view

2002-02-05 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

I remember that someone posted that question before, but I didn't find it.
So here it is again:

In the latest Zope versions, if a user has no rights to see a certain
management tab in the ZMI, it is shown anyway. If he clicks on it, he'll get
an authentication request, so the method behind the tab IS secured.

Is that a new feature or a bug?

I know that I can use filters to control which tabs are shown, but that one
is a bit painful compared with the old approach. E.g., instead of being able
to include all tabs from ObjectManager by adding
ObjectManager.manage_options to the manage_options, I'd have to add them one
by one and put filters in place for each tab.


Joachim


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[Zope-dev] Temporary Storage + Sessions + Versions: How?

2002-01-14 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

I have a problem concerning using versions and sessions together in Zope 2.5
beta 3:

As the Temporary Storage is incompatible with versions, it seems to me that
I can not at all use any session manipulating code in a method that might be
called under version control. This is very disturbing to me.

Are there any workarounds like temporarly switching off versioning before
the SESSION.set is called?

I guess the best fix would be if Temporary Storage would actually work with
versions. This would mean to me that it should gracefully ignore the fact
that we are working in a version.

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Temporary Storage + Sessions + Versions: How?

2002-01-14 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

I'm still having problems with the sessions. And I am beginning to think
that it's not me that is wrong, but the sessioning code has a major
conceptial flaw:

- I have an index_html method that calls an initializeSession method at
the beginning to initialize certain session variables. (Is there another way
to do this?)

- As the new sessioning code seems to be working within the transaction
machinery, the SESSION.set action causes the mere display of an index_html
page (that includes a session initialization method) to be added to the undo
logs

- If we use versions at the same time, the index_html method gets locked

- After leaving the version, my index_html method causes a version lock
error!

Strictly speaking, this behaviour might be correct, as the SESSION.set
indeed changes stuff. But it just isn't usable like that. How am I supposed
to use sessions together with versioning at all if I can't even temporarly
set session keys without getting them committed in a transaction?

I think that sessions have to act like a temporary, volatile namespace,
something like the REQUEST namespace, but persistent for the time of the
session. Chris, in your first response you said that there might be usage
patterns where people want sessions to be version-aware (or let's put it
more general: transaction-aware). But I think that is not quite true: If I
want something like that, I can use plain properties and store them in an
object.

Finally, let me state what I think is a fact: As of Zope 2.5 b3, you can
either use versions OR sessions. If you try to combine them, you'll get into
big trouble. This is a major bug, right?

Cheers

Joachim


- Original Message -
From: Chris McDonough [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Joachim Werner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Temporary Storage + Sessions + Versions: How?


 Joachim Werner wrote:

  Thanks for the hint. I'll try using a versioning storage, though it
might be
  rather inefficient I guess?


 Most (all?) versioning storages are also undoing so you'll be keeping
 undo data that will need to be packed away.  It's also hard to manage an
 undoing mounted storage (no way to pack one from the ZMI).  These were
 the reasons that TemporaryStorage was written in the first place, of
course.

  I think if one is using two Zope features together that are both
scheduled
  to be included for the 2.5 release, there should be no surprises like
that
  one. With Core Session Tracking and Zope 2.4 versioning was fine. And
all of
  a sudden, it didn't work any more. That CAN indeed be disturbing ... :-(

 Sorry you had problems.  Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 - C




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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Temporary Storage + Sessions + Versions: How?

2002-01-14 Thread Joachim Werner

I have a slight correction to make (which doesn't change the message of this
posting):

 - As the new sessioning code seems to be working within the transaction
 machinery, the SESSION.set action causes the mere display of an index_html
 page (that includes a session initialization method) to be added to the
undo
 logs

This happens only if I use an undoable session data storage. But if I DON'T,
sessions and versions will not work together at all. So that makes no great
difference ...


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[Zope-dev] PDF-specific Bug in the ZServer implementation??? Or just strange behavoiur of IE?

2002-01-07 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

This is my first post in the new year, so best wishes for 2002 from Germany!

And on we go with my problem:

I have a ZClass-based Class derived from File. It holds PDF documents. SOME
(not all) of them do not auto-open in Acrobat Reader as they are supposed to
if MS IE 5.x is used. Opera etc. seem to work. The files themselves are
o.k., and opening in Acrobat Reader AFTER downloading (via right
mouseclick/save as) works fine, too.

If the same document that doesn't auto-open when downloaded fom the Zope
server is downloaded from plain Apache, it works ...

The configuration is Zope 2.4.1 (binary release, python 2.1, linux2-x86),
python 2.1.0, linux2 on a SuSE Linux with Apache as Proxy server (via
proxy_pass). I checked the HTTP header with WGET, and they are identical for
working and non-working PDF docs. The mime type is set to application/pdf
...

Any hints on that?

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] PDF-specific Bug in the ZServer implementation??? Or just strange behavoiur of IE?

2002-01-07 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

This was a really quick response! Thanks a lot. Just one additional
question:

What is the best approach to upgrading to the new code? Replacing the
ZServer code by the CVS one? Is the patch in the latest 2.5 beta, too?

Joachim

- Original Message -
From: Andreas Jung [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Casey Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Joachim Werner
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] PDF-specific Bug in the ZServer implementation??? Or
just strange behavoiur of IE?


 Martijn fixed that problem some weeks ago. The fixes are in the CVS now.

 Andreas

 - Original Message -
 From: Casey Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Joachim Werner [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 15:45
 Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] PDF-specific Bug in the ZServer implementation???
Or
 just strange behavoiur of IE?


  On Monday 07 January 2002 03:28 pm, Joachim Werner allegedly wrote:
   Hi!
  
   This is my first post in the new year, so best wishes for 2002 from
   Germany!
  
   And on we go with my problem:
  
   I have a ZClass-based Class derived from File. It holds PDF documents.
 SOME
   (not all) of them do not auto-open in Acrobat Reader as they are
 supposed
   to if MS IE 5.x is used. Opera etc. seem to work. The files themselves
 are
   o.k., and opening in Acrobat Reader AFTER downloading (via right
   mouseclick/save as) works fine, too.
  
   If the same document that doesn't auto-open when downloaded fom the
Zope
   server is downloaded from plain Apache, it works ...
  
   The configuration is Zope 2.4.1 (binary release, python 2.1,
 linux2-x86),
   python 2.1.0, linux2 on a SuSE Linux with Apache as Proxy server (via
   proxy_pass). I checked the HTTP header with WGET, and they are
identical
   for working and non-working PDF docs. The mime type is set to
   application/pdf ...
  
   Any hints on that?
  
   Joachim
 
  Hmmm, sounds like maybe the http range code isn't quite working maybe?
 What
  version of Acrobat Reader? Maybe try an older version. If that works,
that
  new range code might be to blame.
 
  /---\
Casey Duncan, Sr. Web Developer
National Legal Aid and Defender Association
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  \---/
 
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Re: [Zope-dev] PDF-specific Bug in the ZServer implementation??? Or just strange behavoiur of IE?

2002-01-07 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

Just to answer my own question and complete the mail archive:

If you have problems with downloads that make use of the HTTP range
functionality (e.g. with the latest Acrobat Reader in MS IE), Zope 2.5 fixes
the problem (for me).




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[Zope-dev] Precompiled binaries for Linux? (SuSE)

2001-12-19 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

I have tried to compile psycopg on a SuSE Linux 7.0 system, but it I simply
cannot get it done. Do you have some precompiled binaries you could post?

Thanks a lot in advance!

Joachim Werner


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Re: [Zope-dev] OpenOffice and Zope ??

2001-12-19 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

I don't have the resources to start something like that NOW, but I'd really
like to see work on an OpenOffice integration:

 has anybody integrated/plans on intragration/experimented with
 OpenOffice and Zope ?

YES.

 - OpenOffice as a HTML Editor / Web-Frontend for Zope

I don't like that one too much. OpenOffice doesn't have a browser component
any more.

 - OpenOffice as a HelperTool in the Background (external converter for
 MS Office Products) of Zope

That's what we are aiming at: The MSOffice-to-OpenOffice(XML)-Converters
produce very useful output. I think it should be rather easy to import a
converted doc into Zope and catalog it on the fly.

 Special interests in turning excel-spreadsheets with diagramms (!) into
 searchable pdf and/or html with pics into Zope.

One sample scenario:

- Create a template for a diagram in OpenOffice
- Uploade it into Zope and add some dtml-vars (or ZPT expressions) to the
XML file to make it dynamic (e.g. to create web usage statistics)
- Users can not only see and download the diagram as gif (which is possible
right now using GDChart or so), but can also download it as a valid
OpenOffice (or, if reconverted, also PowerPoint/Excel) doc. That diagram
contains the dynamically created numbers, but can be edited locally.

Does OpenOffice support WebDAV already? That would be very useful.

Similar things could be done with KOffice.

The general concept is always the same:

- Rich clients read and write XML documents
- WebDAV is used as the protocol
- Zope is the server

Joachim



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Re: [Zope-dev] Precompiled binaries for Linux? (SuSE)

2001-12-19 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

I finally managed to compile that beast. So I'll probably be the one to post
binaries ASAP ...


- Original Message -
From: Joachim Werner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 9:37 PM
Subject: [Zope-dev] Precompiled binaries for Linux? (SuSE)


 Hi!

 I have tried to compile psycopg on a SuSE Linux 7.0 system, but it I
simply
 cannot get it done. Do you have some precompiled binaries you could post?

 Thanks a lot in advance!

 Joachim Werner


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[Zope-dev] Strange error message: function attributes not accessible in restricted mode

2001-12-19 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

I have two Zope 2.5 b2 installations on two seemingly identical machines,
both with PostgreSQL, ZPsyCopDA, and DBObjects. In the DBObjects demo, I am
getting THIS (see below) on one of the machines (the one with the slightly
older installation).

Very strange for me. What the hell is restricted mode? Something new in
the RestrictedPython environment? And what could explain the fact that it
happens on one machine, but not on the other?

Joachim


Zope Error
Zope has encountered an error while publishing this resource.

Error Type: RuntimeError
Error Value: function attributes not accessible in restricted mode






Troubleshooting Suggestions

The URL may be incorrect.
The parameters passed to this resource may be incorrect.
A resource that this resource relies on may be encountering an error.
For more detailed information about the error, please refer to the HTML
source for this page.

If the error persists please contact the site maintainer. Thank you for your
patience.




Traceback (innermost last):
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8280/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py,
line 158, in publish_module
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8280/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py,
line 119, in publish
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8280/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line
158, in zpublisher_exception_hook
(Object: test)
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8280/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py,
line 103, in publish
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8280/lib/python/ZPublisher/mapply.py,
line 88, in mapply
(Object: manage_addForm)
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8280/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py,
line 44, in call_object
(Object: manage_addForm)
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8280/lib/python/App/special_dtml.py,
line 61, in __call__
(Object: manage_addForm)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8280/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/DT_String.py
, line 473, in __call__
(Object: manage_addForm)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8280/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/DT_In.py,
line 620, in renderwob
(Object:
getSubObjectClass(subObjectMetaType).dbTable.getAllAttributes())
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8280/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/DT_Util.py,
line 159, in eval
(Object:
getSubObjectClass(subObjectMetaType).dbTable.getAllAttributes())
(Info: getSubObjectClass)
  File string, line 0, in ?
RuntimeError: (see above)





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[Zope-dev] ZBabel Object incompatibility with Zope 2.5 b2

2001-12-11 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

This time I need some specialists to help ...

Here is some code from ZBabel Objects. ZBabel objects are folders that hold
localized versions of anything you want to internationalize and pass getting
attributes and calling objects to one of these localized versions depending
on your language choice.

In Zope 2.4 this works fine. But with Zope 2.5 b2 there are recursion
problems:



class ZBabelObject(Folder):
'''ZBabelObject class '''

.


def __getattr__(self, name):
'''__getattr__(self, name) -- try to get an attribute from the
localized object; return attr'''
if name[0] != '_' and not self._v_alreadyLooking:
try:
self._v_alreadyLooking = 1
trueObject = self._getTrueObject()
if hasattr(trueObject, name):
return Rewrapper((trueObject.getId(), name))  =
HERE THE REWRAPPER IS CALLED
#return getattr(trueObject, name)

finally:
self._v_alreadyLooking = 0

return Base.__getattr__(self, name)


Look at the code above: the __getattr__ code calls the Rewrapper to make
sure that the object gets the right context. If you replace the line by the
commented-out one, the attributes work, but calling the object will not
work. E.g., an image width or height will be passed fine, but calling the
image will cause an authorization request even for managers. It seems as
though __call__ will look for some security assertions via __getattr__ (?),
but can't find them due to the missing wrapper. I have no clue.

Here is the Rewrapper code:

class Rewrapper(Base):

def __init__(self, path):
self._path = path

def __of__(self, parent):
ob = parent
for p in self._path:
ob = getattr(ob, p)   = HERE WE GET A RECURSION ERROR
return ob

When the code is run unchanged with 2.5, we get an infinite recursion (well,
Zope halts it after a few recursions) at the marked line, which is bad.

Does anybody have a clue why that happens NOW, and what has change in that
respect from 2.4 to 2.5?

Maybe there are alternative implementations? The aim is that the localized
object just behaves like a normal image, DTML Method, whatever, but actually
maps to different contained object versions.

BTW: The full code is available here:

http://cvs.iuveno-net.de/CVS/cvsweb.cgi/ZBabel/ZBabelObject.py

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] ZBabel Object incompatibility with Zope 2.5 b2

2001-12-11 Thread Joachim Werner

Doesn't seem to make any difference :-(

What does that option do?


 
 class Rewrapper(Base):
 
 def __init__(self, path):
 self._path = path
 
 def __of__(self, parent):
 ob = parent
 for p in self._path:
 ob = getattr(ob, p)   = HERE WE GET A RECURSION ERROR
 return ob
 
 
 
 OK,
 
 I think this is somthing similar to what Martijn Faassen was seeing 
 where its causing an acquisition wrapper to be wrapped with itself.
 
 I'm thinking about it right now.
 
 As an experiment, try setting ZOPE_SECURITY_POLICY=PYTHON before 
 starting Zope and see if you still get the error.
 
 


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[Zope-dev] Catalog wierdness ...

2001-12-05 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

Any ZCatalog experts out there?

I am suddenly getting this with a ZCatalog (it is actually a subclassed
version of the ZCatalog, almost a one-to-one copy of the CMF Catalog tool):

--

Zope Error
Zope has encountered an error while publishing this resource.

Error Type: KeyError
Error Value: -






Troubleshooting Suggestions

This resource may be trying to reference a nonexistent object or variable -
.
The URL may be incorrect.
The parameters passed to this resource may be incorrect.
A resource that this resource relies on may be encountering an error.
For more detailed information about the error, please refer to the HTML
source for this page.

If the error persists please contact the site maintainer. Thank you for your
patience.


Traceback (innermost last):
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py,
line 224, in publish_module
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py,
line 187, in publish
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line
226, in zpublisher_exception_hook
(Object: TransparencySupport)
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py,
line 171, in publish
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/ZPublisher/mapply.py,
line 160, in mapply
(Object: manage_addSmartTextBlock)
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py,
line 112, in call_object
(Object: manage_addSmartTextBlock)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/SmartSections/SmartT
extBlock.py, line 63, in manage_addSmartTextBlock
(Object: TransparencySupport)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/SmartSections/SmartS
ectionElement.py, line 30, in manage_addSectionElement
(Object: TransparencySupport)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/OrderedFolder/Ordere
dObjectManager.py, line 118, in _setObject
(Object: TransparencySupport)
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/OFS/ObjectManager.py,
line 330, in _setObject
(Object: TransparencySupport)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/SmartSections/SmartS
ectionElement.py, line 177, in manage_afterAdd
(Object: ElementWithAttributes)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/SmartSections/SmartS
ectionElement.py, line 172, in manage_routineTasks
(Object: ElementWithAttributes)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/SmartSections/SmartS
ection.py, line 89, in contentIndexObject
(Object: TransparencySupport)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/Kontentor/Katalog.py
, line 130, in indexObject
(Object: LockableItem)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/ZCatalog/ZCatalog.py
, line 498, in catalog_object
(Object: LockableItem)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/ZCatalog/Catalog.py,
line 438, in catalogObject
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/PluginIndexes/TextIn
dex/TextIndex.py, line 381, in index_object
(Object: PluggableIndex)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/PluginIndexes/TextIn
dex/GlobbingLexicon.py, line 166, in getWordId
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/PluginIndexes/TextIn
dex/GlobbingLexicon.py, line 206, in assignWordId
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/ZODB/Connection.py,
line 519, in setstate
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/ZODB/FileStorage.py,
line 588, in load
(Object: /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/var/Data.fs)
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/ZODB/FileStorage.py,
line 584, in _load
(Object: /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/var/Data.fs)
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/ZODB/FileStorage.py,
line 1905, in _loadBack
KeyError: (see above)


-


Very strange, as it seems to be a rather low-level error. Any hints?

Joachim




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Re: [Zope-dev] Catalog wierdness ...

2001-12-05 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!


 This isn't a Catalog error, it's a ZODB error.  It appears that your
 ZODB data has beome inconsistent.  You might want to try to run
 fsrecover.py against it after making a backup to see if it detects any
 errors.

I don't think so:

- fsrecover doesn't find anything
- the error occurs on two machines that are synched via ZSyncer, so a
physical corruption of the ZODB is not likely
- the error ONLY occurs with ZCatalog indexing attempts

But maybe I am missing something ...

Cheers

Joachim



-


Traceback (innermost last):
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py,
line 224, in publish_module
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py,
line 187, in publish
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line
226, in zpublisher_exception_hook
(Object: TransparencySupport)
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py,
line 171, in publish
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/ZPublisher/mapply.py,
line 160, in mapply
(Object: manage_addSmartTextBlock)
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py,
line 112, in call_object
(Object: manage_addSmartTextBlock)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/SmartSections/SmartT
extBlock.py, line 63, in manage_addSmartTextBlock
(Object: TransparencySupport)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/SmartSections/SmartS
ectionElement.py, line 30, in manage_addSectionElement
(Object: TransparencySupport)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/OrderedFolder/Ordere
dObjectManager.py, line 118, in _setObject
(Object: TransparencySupport)
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/OFS/ObjectManager.py,
line 330, in _setObject
(Object: TransparencySupport)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/SmartSections/SmartS
ectionElement.py, line 177, in manage_afterAdd
(Object: ElementWithAttributes)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/SmartSections/SmartS
ectionElement.py, line 172, in manage_routineTasks
(Object: ElementWithAttributes)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/SmartSections/SmartS
ection.py, line 89, in contentIndexObject
(Object: TransparencySupport)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/Kontentor/Katalog.py
, line 130, in indexObject
(Object: LockableItem)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/ZCatalog/ZCatalog.py
, line 498, in catalog_object
(Object: LockableItem)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/ZCatalog/Catalog.py,
line 438, in catalogObject
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/PluginIndexes/TextIn
dex/TextIndex.py, line 381, in index_object
(Object: PluggableIndex)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/PluginIndexes/TextIn
dex/GlobbingLexicon.py, line 166, in getWordId
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/Products/PluginIndexes/TextIn
dex/GlobbingLexicon.py, line 206, in assignWordId
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/ZODB/Connection.py,
line 519, in setstate
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/ZODB/FileStorage.py,
line 588, in load
(Object: /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/var/Data.fs)
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/ZODB/FileStorage.py,
line 584, in _load
(Object: /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/var/Data.fs)
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/dev_8080/lib/python/ZODB/FileStorage.py,
line 1905, in _loadBack
KeyError: (see above)



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Re: [Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev

2001-12-01 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

  This is a totally different business model than the one Zope Corp. is
using
  right now, but it might help refinancing the overhead a good community
needs
  to have ...


 Would it have to be done by ZC?

No, of course not.

And there could be more than one of course (though we'd need a Zope
Standards Base like the LSB then ;-))

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev

2001-12-01 Thread Joachim Werner

 The second is pretty exciting as well.  I saw a presentation in Paris by
 Juan David Palomar, of Localizer fame.  (The presentation is now up at
 http://estce.act.uji.es:9673/localizer).  The presentation impressed me
 on the need to get someone into the core of Zope that knows all these
 details, but also convinced me that the Zope3 effort needs to anticipate
 the needs of i18n and l10n.

 ZBabel and Localizer are good starts, but as jdavid says, both should be
 thought of as non-core projects that start influencing the core
 step-by-step.

Hi!

I fully agree that ZBabel and Localizer don't have to be core projects right
now. But the core must be made fit for i18n to make sure that we don't have
to patch things like the user folder implementation or the Help! button in
the code. In Zopw 2.5, there still seem to be hot spots to fix with regard
to i18n.

The next step would be to agree on ONE syntax for use in Python, ZPT, and
DTML (not necessarly the same for each, but not more than ONE way for each).
So there can be two or more implementations of internationalization to
choose from, but Product maintainers do not have to provide two or more sets
of DTML/ZPT files. BTW, it is not too hard to make ZBabel accept
Localizer-style tags (which I already implemented in a CVS branch) and vice
versa.

The remaining difference between ZBabel and Localizer is a rather political
one:

We, the ZBabel team, are for consequent late binding of translations. That
means that we are against having multiple sets of properties for languages.
There will only be one set of properties, e.g. in English, and then the
BabelTower is used to translate them. This is for non-content things.

For content, we prefer the generic approach of ZBabel objects, that actually
is able to internationalize everything from images to CMF news (at least in
theory). The concept could be extended to have real content negotiation
support for Zope. I tried to outline that a bit in my comments at
http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/ExplicitNam
espaceControlInURLs, which seems to be too hidden to be read. I envision a
Zope server to be able to return a content object (e.g. an image) in a
variety of supported formats and versions, just by setting the browser
content negotiation settings right or choosing an appropriate URL. E.g., a
browser that can display png images should get them where appropriate, and
somebody who doesn't have MS Word installed should get a PDF version of a
document instead, etc. etc. (same with language versions).

Joachim




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Re: [Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev

2001-12-01 Thread Joachim Werner

 Of course there are hot spots. I have asked multiple times for help on the
 mailing
 lists and the Eurozope site to identify such related hot spots.
 Also I had expect some input of the community regarding at unicode support
 inside Zope. But there has been no feedback. It looks like no one needs
 unicode
 support in Zope ?! :-) Anyway, as a first step Zope 2.5 provides full
 unicode
 support for the ZCatalog. I would like to see some volunteers that could
 help
 to set up a list of requirements (the list is almost there on the Eurozope
 site
 I think) and possible solutions that could be integrated into the Zope
core.
 Referring to the open letter to zope-dev I could also charge the
community
 for zero feedback. But this is not the place and time for flamewars.
Instead
 we should bundle the power of ZC and the community. The opening of the CVS
 is a good starting point but I would like to see more people contributing.

I didn't want to blame anybody.

BTW: I have already mentioned the two areas Help! button and acl_user add
screen a couple of times. These seem to be the two that really are not
translateable via DTML. Another issue might be the system messages.

In general, if the error handling in general (including the authentication
errors that are not curently customizable without diving into the code) is
revamped in Zope 3.0 (which I hope), all error messages should be made
translateable one way or the other.

But of course translations also have their limits. Yesterday I was asked by
a collegue whether we should also translate the names of the permissions and
roles ... I said Maybe not ... ;-)

Regarding the unicode support, everything works flawlessly without as long
as one just needs German and English. That's why I don't have too much
expertise about unicode.

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev

2001-11-30 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

 To be honest i would be happy for Zope 3 not to be backwards
 compatible.  Tidy it up, delete the unless code, dare i say it -
 refactor.  Yes so my products will break, well half a days refactoring
 myself and i have a tidier more understandable project anyway.

YES, we need a new start. Building on what we have now, of course, but doing
things better without having to think about all the legacy stuff. When I see
long-time Zope users like Tom Schwaller (who is a Linux legend in Germany)
move on to something new like Webware for Python, that makes me wonder if
Zope is starting to loose some of its momentum.

Zope is a great product. And it becomes easier to sell it every day. But it
could be so much better and more easy to use with just a little effort. Just
to mention a few points: What we really need is

 A true vision of what Zope 3.0 is going to be 

Zope 2.x, together with the CMF, was sold bei DC/ZC as a content
management product, which it isn't really. It is a good start for building
one, but so many things that are mandatory for a CMS are missing in the
out-of-the-box installation.

Zope is a nearly perfect document storage, except for its server
implementations for FTP (and partly also HTTP/Web-DAV) will not be too
useful with major system load.

Zope + Python are a dream team for web-based applications.

I think that a single product can't be good at all these things. But I also
think that Zope could emerge into a suite of near-perfect products for
web-based internet and extranet solutions.

I think Zope should be split up into components as soon as possible:

- a database layer that includes alternatives to the ZODB (using products
like DBObjects or the new stuff from 7x

- a document management frontend to the database layer that can be used to
manage all kinds of docs. Together with add-on products like the document
library, Zope already does much of this, but it is not optimized for high
loads yet, and products like Microsoft's Sharepoint Server are really coming
close now. I wonder why people in the open source community seem to ignore
what Microsoft is doing. I don't ask you to USE their software, but we
should at least try to get inspired by the good ideas they have (or have
collected from others who had them first). What we need in that part of Zope
is high-performance real-time cataloging and searching, interoperability
with FTP, WebDAV, maybe even SAMBA and NFS, automatic document conversion
from Word/PDF to HTML etc.

- an application development framework. Here, we need some more work done
towards a real IDE (for Python and Zope). A lot of work has been done
already by people like Riaan (who maintains Boa Constructor). Most of DTML
(if not all) should go, and Python as the main programming language for Zope
should be in the focus of documentation and training efforts. I spent more
than a year with getting good at DMTL, just to find out in the end that
ZClasses/DTML are really limiting and that developing in Python is almost as
fast and much more effective. We need full integration between ZODB-code and
filesystem code for that. We need ways of doing ZClass-like things with real
Python code, and we need CVS-compatibility or something better within Zope.
XML-RPC/SOAP/Webservices could be a strong part of this.

- a real, complete, out-of-the-box CMS, based on the other three components.
I know that there are at least a dozen good CMS BASED on Zope, but this
seems to me to be a waste of resources. We only need one good system that
can be maintained by many people. It needs a high-level plug-in
architecture, so that people can contribute modules that can interact with
each other. Currently, most Zope products other than the database adapters
and user folder implementations are standalone products. Let's take
Squishdot as an example. It is cool, yes. But it is not compatible with
anything but itself. The CMF was a first try to build a standard Zope CMS,
but it still far from being a good solution. It solves problems you don't
have and takes away solutions plain Zope can offer, like being able to build
hierarchically structured sites (as it has a flat member paradigm). What we
need for the CMS level is:

  - easy-to-use (partly WYSIWYG) editor tools

  - a chroming/skinning mechanism that is used by all components

  - workflow

  - ...

- on top of all that, I see really sophisticated systems like (real) portal
toolkits or groupware software.

- one of the remaining questions is: Does Zope need a stronger XML story?

I think that Zope Corporation doesn't want to maintain all of that, and that
they actually wouldn't be able to do so. So it is really important to make
sure what will be part of Zope 3 and what not. And who is going to be in
charge of what.

Wow, this has gotten rather lengthy (and still incomplete). But maybe I'll
get some feedback on this ...

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev

2001-11-30 Thread Joachim Werner

  Noone from Zope Corp seems to monitor the list to help out.

 That is not my experience at all. I have received answers from Zope corps
 several times. But sure, most of the answers you get come from the
community
 members. Thats what a community is all about, and thats the hallmark of a
 good community.

I fully agree that Zope Corp and the Zopers there are really trying to
contribute to the lists and they are definitely listening. But still
Andrew's main points are right. I talked to people who are in the inner
circle of the CVS write-enabled. And even those people still feel that they
are not really getting all the info they need.

The session management framework (formerly known as CoreSessionTracking, now
it is in the core and just called Session) is another example, if my first
look was right. The API seems to have changed a lot between the last CST and
the final Session release that is part of 2.5 beta. O.k., there still seems
to be some backwards-compatibility, but why can't those projects be more
public? The tools are there (like CVS) ...

Joachim



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Re: [Zope-dev] Dying in the Fishbowl.

2001-11-30 Thread Joachim Werner

  Does the fishbowl process address this for you?
 
 http://dev.zope.org/Fishbowl/Introduction.html

 From me, that'll be a resounding no.

 Every single idea I've had for Zope has died somewhere in the fishbowl,
and not because people have turned round and
 gone no, that's a crap idea. That I wouldn't have a problem with.

 The fishbowl is an exciting idea, but quite frankly, I have neither the
time nor the patience to monotonously go and
 check if anyone has commented on a proposal or find out how relevant
propsals are doing.

The fishbowl is missing some core functionality. They just don't work
efficiently. That's why people still prefer mailing lists (though they suck,
too, but to a lesser degree I think). We'd need automatic feedback (via
mail) if something changes (i.e. I'd like to be able to subscribe to
fishbowl wikis). We'd need something like version control, and much better
sorting, indexing, and structuring of all the information. It can't be too
hard to get that done, but certainly we are not there yet.

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev

2001-11-30 Thread Joachim Werner

I seem to have to comment on most of the mails in this thread. Sorry for
that ;-)

 Personally, I think ZC are trying very hard, but are not getting it
 right.  I'm also very sure they are taking this conversation
 seriously.  Brian responded very quickly to the userfolder 'api'
 issues.  They commit a *lot* in terms of software and support (IMO)
 but little in terms of fostering a community.  But then, why should
 *they* be responsible for this?

My experience from EuroZope is that we would desperately need some paid
community workers. The Zope community seems to be much more professional
than others, which means that there are not enough people with too much free
time to run the infrastructure. Most of us contribute a lot, but can't
afford doing even more without neglecting the day-to-day business.

 1) Just because no-one can ever agree about splitting up the
mailing lists, what's to stop somebody setting one up unilaterally?
Perhaps the people who care strongly about this should just set up
an egroup?  I'm sure ZC would link to it from zope.org.  Come on
somebody, set up a forum at [EMAIL PROTECTED], today,
right now, and continue the discussion there.

I personally don't think we need more mailing lists. However, we might need
better FAQs/howtos to get the noise from the lists.

   I think the wiki format puts people off
because they're not familiar with it.  How about a familiar-looking
discussion board on each proposal, too?

Yes, that's a good point.

 3) Another thing mentioned regularly: the zope.org community site is
pretty bad.
I think, just as the respository is beginning to
open up, so should construction of zope.org.  There should be a
mailing list, some members of the community should be appointed to
some kind of committee, and ZC should always have some
representation on it.  But it should be led by the people for whom
it exists in the first place, IMO. Collectively, we have a vast
array of talented designers, programmers, information
architects, etc, at our disposal.  Will ZC countenance this
proposal? If not, should we be working on our own community site?

We have discussed about that at most of the EuroZope meetings. But still
nobody has had enough resources to start. We'd need a Zope-based site that
has all the functionality of sourceforge and even more. Zope CAN do that,
but zope.org is not a good example indeed. I'd like to be ably to comment on
a product right in place, post bug fixes, how-tos and extensions right on
the product's site, get reliable information whether a product works with a
certain version of Zope etc.

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev

2001-11-30 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi Paul!

 I don't want to replace one group of people with a busy agenda with
 another group of people with a busy agenda.  We need a small group of
 people that are willing to make a long-term commitment to
 responsibility.  These people can then tap into others that can commit
 on an as-needed basis.

That's the crucial part. Either we find some people who can really take
responsibility (i.e. are NOT busy enough yet) or we will probably have to
BUY time. I don't see an alternative. The money for that should probably not
come from the people who want to make money with Zope for a living, but
rather from our clients. I have no idea yet how we could accomplish that,
but I feel that it is possible.

Joachim

BTW: I could have posted the same to the EuroZope list, as we have exactly
the same problem there ...


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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Fishbowl?

2001-11-30 Thread Joachim Werner


 IMO, Bugzilla won't fix these kinds of problems.  I think the first step
 is to refine what we have while finding better ways to work together.


We definitely need a ZOPE-based approach. What I really don't get is this:
We all seem to be building Zope-based systems for communities, public
administration, education, etc. to make information flow, from shops to CRM
and knowledge management systems. Why the h** can't we do it for ourselves?

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] (SHOUT) NOTIFICATION!!!!

2001-11-30 Thread Joachim Werner

 Notification, which bugzilla offers, MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE!!
 Email notification is good enough, if I want that to beep my cellphone, I
just
 send it to me genie.co.uk email address...

Yet another comment: That translates to We finally need MAILMAN integration
into Zope!

I mean, Zope CAN send mails, but not that many (at least not efficiently).
Or how does Bugzilla do the mail stuff?

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] (SHOUT) NOTIFICATION!!!!

2001-11-30 Thread Joachim Werner

 I think there's another problem here: possibly the community isn't
 large enough yet.  There's already been a discussion on zope-coders
 about how little those with commit priviledges are actually
 committing, and the main reason is simply that no-one has enough
 time.

This might be a bit sarcastic, but I think the community IS large enough. We
just have a lot of people who use Zope one-way, i.e. they take the platform
and sell the add-on products without re-contributing stuff. To a certain
degree this might be necessary, but I think ZC's own experience with ZEO
shows that it doesn't make sense in the long run. United we are strong!

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev

2001-11-30 Thread Joachim Werner

 Where's the $99 version of Zope?  The $499?  The $1499?  The
 $25999?  Zope Corp hasn't pulled that card out like many other
 vendors have.  There are actually many pieces of Zope that were
 initially commercial add-ons (or intended to be) that are now all
 open source.

I sometimes have the feeling that we might NEED a $xx(x) version of Zope --
a ready-to-go, preconfigured Zope distro with a decent manual.

Not for us, the community, but for the average user. O.k., we could do it
for free, but would there be a Red Hat or SuSE Linux distro if it was
totally for free? It even CAN be downloaded for free, and still people are
willing to pay for it. And the money is needed. Without the support from the
major Linux distributors, projects like XFree would probably be in big
trouble ...

This is a totally different business model than the one Zope Corp. is using
right now, but it might help refinancing the overhead a good community needs
to have ...

Just my 2 (euro)cents ...

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Fishbowl?

2001-11-30 Thread Joachim Werner

 When we first opened the fishbowl, it was with the certainty that we
 wouldn't get it right immediately. That's why we went with the intentially
 low-tech approach of a pile of Wikis. That first step actually worked
 pretty well for a while until we hit critical-Wiki-mass and there were
 suddenly too many proposals / projects to follow easily. So please don't
 think that we are somehow attached to the current fishbowl implementation
 as some sort of be-all-end-all.

I think that there ARE problems that can not be solved on a mailing list or
in the fishbowl. One of them is doing a good general design (which we MIGHT
need for some of the Zope 3.0 issues). I followed all the stuff about the
CMF and formerly PTK and knew that it was heading to a direction I didn't
want, but at the same time I felt that it would not help if I just
contributed to the mailing list. Maybe this was a personal problem of mine,
but I don't think so.

IMHO, there are two possible approaches to problems like that (major design
issues I mean):

a) dictatorship, if the dictator is really good in his job (e.g. Jim Fulton
has done a great job with regard to the design of the ZODB )

b) meeting in real live (or at least in real time)

Some of the core architecture of the KDE KParts component model was
developed on the KDE 2 conference AFAIK. I think we might have to do
sessions like that at the upcoming Zope/Python conferences ...

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Integrating mailman with Zope?

2001-11-26 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

 Has anyone out there tried this already?  Last we heard, Mailman was
 a standalone CGI program, and in order to make it work with Zope you
 had to run both Mailman and Zope behind another web server (such as
 Apache).

Yes, but if you control the Mailman from Zope, you will of course not need
the cgi component, which only provides management interfaces and the mailing
list archives, not the actual mail sending functionality.

 What we're planning to do is write a CGI product for Zope 2.3.3 so that we
 can run CGI programs with ZServer under Zope, eliminating the need to set
 up and configure Apache or any other web server.

 If you've already written a CGI Zope product (i.e., a product that lets
 you run CGI programs from any Zope folder), please let me know! Otherwise,
 I'll continue the experiments. ;-)

There already seems to be a product that can do this. But as I stated above,
I'd take the Mailman code as a library and rewrite the management screens in
Zope. For adding a new list, you still need to change stuff in the mail
configuration of your machine (i.e. create an alias for the list). This
COULD be scripted from Zope, but might be a security issue.

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Anyone know how to add a property to a Zope Product (not its instances)?

2001-10-20 Thread Joachim Werner

 By default, Zope adds the title and version properties, for which it
 gets the value from version.txt and meta_type,
 but does anyone know a way to add more?

This is only half an answer, but maybe it helps:

I am not quite sure if you can do that the easy way from Python. (I.e. just
define a _properties list). But you certainly can use manage_addProperty:

self.Control_Panel.Products.YOURPRODUCT.manage_addProperty(id=TEST,
value=TEST ENTRY, type=string)

The question is where to put this, probably somewhere in the __init__.py? I
don't know if you CAN call it from there. It definitely works from the
contructor method of your product, but then the new property will only show
up after the first instance has been added ...

Joachim






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Re: [Zope-dev] ZTables and/or Catalog plugable brains?

2001-10-05 Thread Joachim Werner

 I'm not entirely sure why the idea of ZTables went away so completely.
 Python tables in the ZODB combined with the catalog should make for an
 interesting system to play with. Though perhaps there are products
 out there that actually do this. Come to think of it, MetaPublisher
 (not to be confused with MetaKit) can use a ZODB backend, can't it?

Stephan Richter just told me that the ZOQL (short for use SQL-like syntax
within the ZODB) has become a reality. Maybe that could be interesting for
your problem domain, too.


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Re: [Zope-dev] [Bug] DateTime(string) uses GMT as timezone

2001-10-01 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

Stephan Richter has started to re-implement DateTime using mxDateTime a
couple of weeks ago. That should fix all the various problems with DateTime.
At Zope Corporation, Andreas Jung took care of that. So if you complain loud
enough, I guess the fix could go into the 2.5 release. It just might be hard
to be backward-compatible with all the errors, but maybe there could be
something like a legacy mode you can activate if you need it ... ;-)

Joachim

- Original Message -
From: Steve Alexander [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Dieter Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] [Bug] DateTime(string) uses GMT as timezone


 Dieter Maurer wrote:

  Unfortunately
 
  DateTime(year,month,day) != DateTime(%d-%d-%d % (year,month,day))
 
  The former uses the local timezone (which I think is right)
  while the latter uses GMT+0 (which seems not right).
 
  Thinks are quite bad, as the latter is used to convert
  :date form values into DateTime objects.


 See also here:

 http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2001-August/012974.html

 

 I get different times from a string, depending whether I use '-' or '/'
 as a date delimiter.

from DateTime.DateTime import DateTime
DateTime('2001-08-20').pCommonZ()
 'Aug. 20, 2001 12:00 am GMT+0'
DateTime('2001/08/20').pCommonZ()
 'Aug. 20, 2001 12:00 am GMT+1'
   

 I find the difference a tad surprising.

 Is this a bug or a feature?

 If it's a bug, I'll work on a fix.

 I'm guessing this is a feature; perhaps using the '-' delimiter suggests
 I'm trying to use ISO formatting.

 I'm running this in a GMT+1 timezone btw.

 Zope latest from CVS, Python 2.1.
 

 I never got a reply as to whether it was a bug or a feature, so I didn't
 work on a fix.

 --
 Steve Alexander
 Software Engineer
 Cat-Box limited



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[Zope-dev] Attribute error: extends ...

2001-10-01 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!

Has anybody also had that with a Zope 2.4.1 instance (Linux)? It happens not
only with Metapublisher (as in the example), but seems to occur quite
randomly. It might be a problem with my local install, but even if it is, it
should not happen (as I just have some custom Products installed) ...

Cheers

Joachim

_

Error Type: AttributeError
Error Value: extends


Traceback (innermost last):
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/kue_9080/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py,
line 223, in publish_module
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/kue_9080/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py,
line 187, in publish
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/kue_9080/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line
226, in zpublisher_exception_hook
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/kue_9080/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py,
line 171, in publish
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/kue_9080/lib/python/ZPublisher/mapply.py,
line 160, in mapply
(Object: manage_addMetaPublisher)
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/kue_9080/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py,
line 112, in call_object
(Object: manage_addMetaPublisher)
  File
/usr/local/zope/skkoeln240/lib/python/Products/MetaPublisher/MetaPublisher.p
y, line 247, in manage_addMetaPublisher
  File
/usr/local/zope/skkoeln240/lib/python/Products/MetaPublisher/MetaPublisher.p
y, line 108, in __init__
(Object: SupportManageHandler)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/kue_9080/lib/python/Products/ZCatalog/ZCatalog.py
, line 124, in manage_addZCatalog
(Object: SupportManageHandler)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/kue_9080/lib/python/Products/ZCatalog/ZCatalog.py
, line 256, in __init__
(Object: LockableItem)
  File
/home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/kue_9080/lib/python/Products/ZCatalog/ZCatalog.py
, line 815, in addIndex
(Object: LockableItem)
  File /home/ftp/root/kue-projekt/kue_9080/lib/python/OFS/ObjectManager.py,
line 247, in all_meta_types
(Object: LockableItem)
AttributeError: (see above)





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Re: [Zope-dev] DISCUSS: Community checkins for CVS

2001-09-23 Thread Joachim Werner

 I imagine that the group will decide rules on peer reviewing.  For
 comparison, the Mozilla group has very elaborate rules for checkins,
 while Python has pretty much an innocent until proven guilty culture.
 (That is, you check something in, and if somebody complains, it gets
 removed.)

 I don't think it is worthwhile trying to form these rules a priori.

That's fine. I just wanted to put it onto the agenda ...

  We need rules like NO FIXES BETWEEN FINAL BETA AND RELEASE (Absolutely
no
  fixes I mean) -- and those rules should apply to everybody.

 Again, we'll let the rules come out of the group.  For instance, what if
 an Emacs #foo.py# accidentally got checked in?  Would you really require
 another beta release for that?  Betas are a cost incurred by hundreds of
 people around the world.

My personal opinion is that, apart from the version number, a final beta
should be exactly the same as the actual release. Accidentally checked-in
stuff can cause accidents. So there is some reason for a careful release
policy.

But in your specific case, if the final beta that should lead to a release
has been actually released (and tagged in the CVS), how should somebody be
able to check something into it afterwards? That could only happen if there
are problems with the CVS configuration and usage I guess ...

 Ahh, the it's the Wiki's fault argument.  I just checked the zip
 mailing list archive.  9 messages since Aug 1st.  So neither email nor
 Wiki are good choices.  Can you point to an example of a process that
 worked better for designing APIs?

I don't blame the Wiki in general. Wikis (together with mailing lists) are a
good start. Sometimes we'd just need real meetings on real conferences I
guess ...

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Vulnerability: attacking can get file list and directory

2001-09-23 Thread Joachim Werner


 Vulnerability: attacking can get file list and directory
 Tested on Win32 platform

 Example:
 telnet zopeserver 8080
 PROPFIND / HTTP/1.0
 enter
 enter
 enter

  list files and directory 

 This tested on my site:
 security.instock.ru 8080

This one really seems to be the old WebDAV is not safe one. I guess it has
been tackled already. You should be able to switch the file listing off for
the Anonymous User in Zope 2.4.1 ...

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] DISCUSS: Community checkins for CVS

2001-09-21 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi Paul! Hi list!

In the last couple of weeks I have really looked forward for the CVS to be
finally opened. Not that I would be the first to be accepted as a
contributor (my Python is still lousy, as Stephan Richter could tell you
...), but I read things from ZC like We are too busy to get contributed
patches from the tracker into the CVS! and on the other hand guys like
Martijn Faassen begging for being allowed to help ...

So this decision will be the beginning of a new Zope age ;-)

What I haven't found on the CVS site yet is anything about peer-reviewing
contributions before they go into the main tree. While I sometimes have the
feeling that there are fixes from ZC people that should NOT have made it
into a release, there are many patches from the community that are not
getting into a release for a long time (this is not a very scientific
statement, just my personal feeling).

We need rules like NO FIXES BETWEEN FINAL BETA AND RELEASE (Absolutely no
fixes I mean) -- and those rules should apply to everybody.

We maybe also need an improved process for designing new API extensions etc.
One case for that is the Zope Internationalization Project
(http://www.eurozope.org/zip/FrontPage), which better sooner than later
should become a core project. I have the feeling that with the current Wiki
approach it will take ages to agree on a syntax for internationalization in
Zope. I don't mean that we need a single implementation. But we need an
agreed-on syntax that is part of the standard Zope package, so that a ZPT or
DTML Method will not break if it uses translation tags.

Joachim


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Re: Re: [Zope-dev] WebDav Bug? -- And some comments on how great WebDAV is ;-)

2001-09-19 Thread Joachim Werner

 Question :
 When I access to my folder by webdav protocol (win98 webfolder), I can
list
 the folder content, but when I want to access to a file inside, Zope asked
to
 me another authentification, then I can access to my file (wordd file
(.doc))
 but only in read only mode.

This seems to be a problem with the locking Office 2000 programs want to do.
With Zope 2.4.1 this should work. But we also found a couple of problems
(most of them probably not on Zope's end - but MS unfortunately still SETS
some of the real-life standards ...):

- If you use lower-case-only or upper-case-only names, that might be a
problem, as Windows (98, NT/2000/XP should do better) assumes that both are
the same (some DOS legacy mode I guess)

- You can't rename files via the Web Folder feature. With the WebDrive
product (which is commercial) we CAN rename files, but it is somewhat
unstable and does not do SSL under Win98

- Uploads might freeze the client system (it does not really crash, just
block for a while)

Some additional issues when using the CMF:

- There is this really great idea that you can create a news item by just
posting a MyNews.news file to your Member folder. The first problem is that
Word does not let you save an HTML file as .news, so we changed the rules
in CMF and upload news_MyNews.htm files

- If the file contains empty lines, the upload won't work. Add a single
space to the line, and it will work. I guess that one is a parsing bug in
the CMF's PUT method

WebDAV really could be a great protocol. But it has some way to go. And
unfortunately many of the problems are client-side.

On the Linux platform, we'd need a kio_slave implementation of WebDAV for
KDE (though there is a WebDAV file system module that let's you mount a
WebDAV server like NFS, I've not tested that one yet).

Another nice-to-have thing would be WebDAV support in the
StarOffice/OpenOffice project (and of course I want HTML PUT or WebDAV back
in Mozilla's/Netscape's composer). OpenOffice does not get too much
attention these days, but it uses a really great, XML-based file format.
Combined with WebDAV and Zope, you would be able to do really cool things.
Just one example:

- draw a pie chart prototype in OpenOffice
- Upload it to Zope
- in Zope, dive into the XML and replace the demo values by DTML (or ZPT)
variables; you might even be able to specify variables from OpenOffice
directly
- Users can then download dynamically generated charts from Zope (e.g. a
website logfile report)
- The cool thing: It's not a GIF file or so. You can take it and adjust it,
put it into a presentation etc.

Think of similar scenarios with spreadsheet tables or slide show
presentations!

With proper browser integration, the OpenOffice files could even be used to
display stuff on the web! This would be something like rich HTML ...

Joachim



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Re: [Zope-dev] TransparentFolder Problem

2001-06-28 Thread Joachim Werner

 /
 Transparent_A
 Method_A
 Folder_B
 Transparent_B
 Method_A
 Folder_C

 Folder_B and Folder_C are non-transparent, Transparent_A and
 Transparent_B are transparent.

 The problem is when i say dtml-var Method_A in a Document which is in
 Folder_C i got  the Method_A from Folder_B.Transparent_B and not from
 Transparent_A.
 Could anyone help me or explain what's wrong.

Haven't had time to check this in more detail, but maybe it is because you
start from the ROOT level. ROOT is not real folder/object manager, but
something that just works similar. Does it work if you create a new folder
and move your whole folder tree in?

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] ZClass not in a Product

2001-06-25 Thread Joachim Werner

 Maybe you search python.org for Guido's metaclasses article.
 It tells that a Python class can be both a class and an instance
 and that this view has interesting applications.

 You focus on the class aspects of a ZClass (a pattern for creating
 instances providing them with basic common infrastructure),
 while I stress the instance aspects.

 The fact, that you can manage ZClasses in the same way as other
 Zope objects, calls for similar structuring possibilities:
 taking them out of the centralized control panel and putting them
 anywhere in the site. That was the starting point of our discussion...

I know about the duality of Python classes. I just don't see what I could
really do with a ZClass in the instance space (reading this twice, see
below for some possible examples). A totally different aspect is whether
Zope should have something like an in-built support for virtual instances,
i.e. sub-folders could be like full Zope instances, providing a local
Products directory etc. THAT would make a lot of sense to me. But in general
I am more in favor of getting things OUT of the instance folders than
getting more stuff in.

It makes absolutely no sense to me why the Zope management interface
displays database adaptors, user folders,  and actual content objects all in
the same folder. The only thing these objects have in common is that they
are living in the same namespace. Another problem ist that the Add lists get
longer and longer. So why not have a separate tab for users, content, and
technical things like database adaptors, or SiteRoots? O.k., what we get
then is too many tabs, what there should be a clever way of changing the ZMI
to a multi-level tab concept (main tabs and sub-menus).

To come back to the ZClass question: I see and use them mainly as templates.
That's what they are good for. So they should reside in a template folder.
Right now, this folder is the Products folder. Maybe we need local
Products/Templates folders, so that it is possible to have ZClasses that
just work locally or that overload a base ZClass defined up in the tree. But
what we definitely don't need is freely floating ZClasses.

Another problem is that the ZClass implementation is really experimental.
They work great, which is a miracle, but they are extremely slow, and a lot
of things you'd need for effectively sub-classing ZClasses from others don't
work. E.g. it is impossible to overload existing properties/porpertysheets,
and acquisition does not work as expected either.

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] ZClass not in a Product

2001-06-22 Thread Joachim Werner

 I do not agree with you:
 
   a ZClass is both an instance (you can manage, modify, delete)
   and a class (you can use as blueprint for object creation).

O.k., I CAN manage/modify/delete a ZClass, but it still is (conceptually) a 
class, and only a class. You can manage/modify/delete Zope Python classes, too: 
Add new icons, DTML or real methods etc. It just is done from the file 
system. Still nobody would call those instances ...

Or did I miss something here?

Joachim

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[Zope-dev] Problems with Transparent Folder and Zope 2.3.3

2001-06-21 Thread Joachim Werner

Transparent Folders are used very often at iuveno. And we would like to do
so in the future because they really provide an easy way to structure
objects in folders. But with Zope 2.3.3 we get errors like that when we
start an instance that uses Transparent Folders:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File /home/customers/Zope-2.3.3-linux2-x86/z2.py, line 566, in ?
  File string, line 1, in ?
  File /home/customers/Zope-2.3.3-linux2-x86/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py,
line 95, in ?
  File /home/customers/Zope-2.3.3-linux2-x86/lib/python/OFS/Application.py,
line 91, in ?
  File /home/customers/Zope-2.3.3-linux2-x86/lib/python/OFS/Folder.py, line
94, in ?
  File /home/customers/Zope-2.3.3-linux2-x86/lib/python/OFS/SimpleItem.py,
line 96, in ?
  File
/home/customers/Zope-2.3.3-linux2-x86/lib/python/AccessControl/Role.py, line
105, in ?
AttributeError: RoleManager

The system is Linux (SuSE 7.0) with a binary Zope distribution.

Any hints?

Joachim




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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Problems with Transparent Folder and Zope 2.3.3

2001-06-21 Thread Joachim Werner

 Tomorrow I hope to release a version of TransparentFolders that works
 around the problem, so you can wait for that instead if you like.

Cool! Could you maybe put the patch that currently is applied in
OFS/__init.py__ into a Hotfix? This would make it easier to use Transparent
Folders together with INSTANCE_HOME installations where people just symlink
to the product folders ...

 I'm glad to know the product is being used.  I don't think it will be in
 the core distribution since it causes a performance hit.

We know about the performance hit. But is it a big one?


Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] ZClass not in a Product

2001-06-21 Thread Joachim Werner

 Is there any good reason why a Product inside the ControlPanel is the only
 place a ZClass can exist? Why can't I have one in any folder?

I think it is perfectly logical that ZClasses are located in the Products
area. A folder is for instances of classes, and a ZClass is a class, not an
instance.


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Re: [Zope-dev] and thanks

2001-06-21 Thread Joachim Werner

 dtml-tree made me look good today :). Thanks DC!

But still it urgently needs a rewrite ;-)

Some issues:

- Only one tree per page (it should be an option to use core session or
unique cookies to enable more than one tree per page)
- The open/close icons are hard-coded
- A general one that applies to Zope as a whole: dtml-var icon should
RENDE the icon, not just pass a URL ...

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] dtml-in batching badly

2001-06-18 Thread Joachim Werner

 That's not the behaviour I'd expect.  Can anyone confirm this is a
 bug?

As LEE Kwan Soo has already said, it is not a bug, but a clever (too
clever?) feature that should maybe not be enabled by default. Every second
week or so somebody runs into this and thinks it is a bug.

To the DC people: Do you think it would break any code badly if the default
behaviour was orphans=0?


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Re: [Zope-dev] symbolic link to another object in the Zope DB

2001-06-14 Thread Joachim Werner

 Has anybody seen a product that lets you make the equivalent of a symbolic
 link in unix in the Zope DB?


http://www.zope.org/Members/hathawsh/Symlink

(VERY experimental ...)

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Does creating REAL over-the-web Python code becomerealistic with Zope 2.4?

2001-06-02 Thread Joachim Werner

  this distinction so that all components can be edited via the
filesystem
  and
  live in the object database.

 This does worry me.  I think I understand at least one motivation (ZEO),
 but...

 Well, as long as it doesn't compromise my ability to write Zope python
code
 using filesystem tools, it should be OK.  It just makes me nervous grin.

I guess the crucial point is that everything should be editable from BOTH
the filesystem (or a mountable Zope storage
;-)) and the web front end.

Actually our motivation is a bit different from the one at DC. They mainly
see the programmer as the target. For us, it's the power user, who wants to
creat new objects, but only within a limited framework. For adding
completely new functionality, these people would rely on professional help.
But adding a new attribute to an object or changing a form should all be
possible over the web.

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Does creating REAL over-the-web Python code becomerealistic with Zope 2.4?

2001-06-02 Thread Joachim Werner

Hi!


 We see FTP and especially WebDAV as the best fit technoligies for the
 content owners;  we spent a good deal of effoert on cleaning up
FTP/WebDAV
 for yesterday's CMF release, for instance.

I think you are misunderstanding what I mean with enabling power users:
With WebDAV and FTP one can upload/download/edit HTML content. Maybe also
other documents like Word/PowerPoint. Period. What I am talking about is
data objects. In a data-driven intranet application, the document part is
only one side of the coin. The other is structured data. To get an idea of
what kind of applications I have in mind, think of user-programmable
database tools like MS Access, or some of the web form capabilities of Lotus
Notes, Apple WebObjects (never seen it, but seems to be useful) or
Microsoft's Exchange Server platform.

Examples:

Adapting a Zope-based intranet to an organization:
A power user (call him admin if you like) takes the most suitable template
(which is a set of ZClasses or real Python classes, or maybe just an
XML-based model file) and adds some fields specific to his organization,
changes the look-and-feel, finished. Let's say there is a sports club
template that was optimized for football clubs, and he adds support for a
soccer club's specific needs (as far as it does not involve REAL
programming). Compare it to taking and adapting Squishdot. I'd bet that at
least half of the sites using Squishdot were built by people who do not know
about Python at all and did everything over the web. There is a large need
for these things.

Another tool that is useful for this kind of things, but still limited in
some respects, is beehive's MetaPublisher ...

Other example: Somebody wants to publish a web form to enable people to
register for the company's beach party. He just can build the form and the
necessary data storage classes in the back over the web.

These two scenarios show there is no way of doing this via WebDAV/FTP
(except if you provide powerful thick clients, but that seems not too
reasonable to me).

Joachim.


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Re: [Zope-dev] Does creating REAL over-the-web Python code become realistic with Zope 2.4?

2001-05-31 Thread Joachim Werner

 Coincidently, I was just trying to edit a file on the filesystem with an
FTP
 client going thru Zope/FTP and a LocalFS. It didn't work. The LocalFS
 instance didn't look like a directory to FTP so FTP could neither read nor
 write to the directory.

 Does that throw a monkey wrench into your idea?

No, not really. LocalFS was just an example. The only important thing is
that I can edit something, post it over the web (either from a weg form or
using FTP, WebDAV etc.) and then store it to the filesystem instead of the
ZODB.

BTW LocalFS works fine over the web frontend, and FTP over Zope over LocalFS
is not really necessary in most cases, as you can go directly to the
filesystem with plain FTP anyway. But LocalFS should be fixable to work over
FTP, I think.

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Does creating REAL over-the-web Python code become realistic with Zope 2.4?

2001-05-31 Thread Joachim Werner

 Do you mean generating Python code from ZClasses? For example making and
 editing a Product over the web?

Kind of. Probably not full-fledged Products, but ZClass-like Classes that
define values for property sheets, include Methods, inherit from certain
base classes etc. ... well, maybe I'll end up with a Product ;-)

And I would maybe not generate the code from ZClasses, but write a Python
Product that does the generation.

 Well the one flaw is that you will still need to restart AFAIK to install
a
 brand new product.

This has to be tested out. At least it should be possible to add classes to
an existing Product. So that would do. I'd just need a dummy Product where
all the new over-the-web classes would go ...

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Simple ZClass Stuff

2001-05-27 Thread Joachim Werner

 Error Type: TypeError
 Error Value: unsliceable object

Have you tried to use the newest Zope version? In 2.3.0 or so there was a
bug that gave us the unsliceable object error for ZClasses that are based
on Image or File (which should be similar to the DTMLDocument case).
Newer versions work fine again.

 NOTE:
 On one attempt, I modified the constructor input form to use
 'addDTMLDocument' and the class method to use 'manage_edit' and
 'manage_upload'.  These changes got past the 'unsliceable object' error,
 however, when instantiating this class, I was unable to access the
property
 sheets and views that I had defined.  I was left with the default views
 defined for the DTML Document class.

I guess with this you actually create plain DTMLDocuments, not the new
ZClass you have defined. This is why you don't get any of your customized
propertysheets.

BTW: What do you need a DTMLDocument ZClass for? I would not really know
what it could be good for ...

Joachim



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Re: Randomness (RE: [Zope-dev] CoreSessionTracking 0.8)

2001-05-26 Thread Joachim Werner

 dtml-let data=SESSION.getSessionData()
   manage=REQUEST.get('manage_content') or
 data.get('manage_content')
   dtml-unless manage
 dtml-call data.set('manage_content','NO')
   /dtml-unless
   dtml-in data.keys()
dtml-let si=sequence-item
 dtml-call REQUEST.set(si, data[si])
/dtml-let
   /dtml-in
 /dtml-let

This will work for the manage_content, but I want to make the whole
request persistent. E.g., box states, search filters, and sequence-start
variables for batching are all made persistent ...

 I'm also confused why you're using YES and NO to represent a boolean
 instead of just checking that a key exists or is true.

Just consider it a bad habit ;-) -- I had some trouble working with booleans
some time ago, so I switched to this more explicit version.




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Re: Randomness (RE: [Zope-dev] CoreSessionTracking 0.8)

2001-05-24 Thread Joachim Werner

What we experience with CoreSessionTracking:

We have a manage mode in the Kontentor CMS hacky thing (no, it is NOT a
product yet ;-)). It works well for some time (i.e. if I click on it, the
system switches to manage mode and stays in manage mode until I click
again), but from time to time it is just reset (quite randomly, too) to the
non-manage mode. The click just sets a session variable. Haven't got any
deeper with it yet, but the session seems not to be really reliable ...

Joachim


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Re: Randomness (RE: [Zope-dev] CoreSessionTracking 0.8)

2001-05-24 Thread Joachim Werner

 However, a much more helpful report would be
 one which provides a repeatable test case which invariably reproduces
 the problem instead of one which states the symptoms and effects of the
 problem.

I know, but that's why the errors are called random: They are not easy to
replicate ...


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Re: [Zope-dev] Experiments with ORMapping

2001-05-14 Thread Joachim Werner

 Now, it may be useful to provide a management interface for defining the
 schema mapping.  I haven't approached that yet; AFAICT this is where the
 work done on SmartObjects and DBObjects would be very useful.  Initially
 I was planning for people to code the mapping purely in Python so we
 could gain experience and find common patterns before inventing a UI.

Our initial plans for SmartObjects (if I get Stephan right) are to define
all objects in Python code (as DBObjects do now), but to also provide two
alternative ways of creating the necessary code:

a) by importing and compiling an XML object description (which might come
from a UML tool)
b) via a ZMI interface similar to the ZClass GUI (which may or may not use
the XML schemas, depending on the actual implementation)

Of course it would be necessary to dynamically refresh the newly generated
filesystem-based code. The other issue that applies in general to all
filesystem-based code is that it is not directly available over ZEO as it is
not in the ZODB. But that should not be a very large problem ...


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Re: [Zope-dev] Experiments with ORMapping

2001-05-14 Thread Joachim Werner

 My thought on this, is that you will be forced to explicitly consider the
 nature of this relationship and its storage at the application level.  If
 you write explicitly for ZODB, you might use a BTree, for example.  Or
 perhaps you'd have some kind of global container for the Tasks, with a
 Catalog to index them, and a method on TaskPerformer to query the Catalog.

 How would you propose to map this to an RDMS?  Well, substituting catalog
 queries might be relatively straightforward, but perhaps rather time
 consuming to develop in a generic way.  The BTree might give you a bit
more
 trouble.  Probably you'd have to end up using some sort of generic
 queryable containers that translated to BTrees or Catalogs or RDBMS
tables,
 depending...

 And lo!  You now have an application framework.  Oops.

I'll try to somehow get your and Shane's opinions together a bit: I think
Shane's approach does most of the job (of OR mapping) if the objects we are
talking about are relatively simple and the application domain is relatively
typical for what Zope can do well. E.g. the composite objects we have in
mind for the groupware (user credentials coming from LDAP, rest in the ZODB,
or file stored in the filesystem metadata in SQL DB, rest in ZODB) can
easily be modelled this way. And the existing Zope API (manage_AddX,
manage_changeProperties etc.) would do most of the job.

But the problems start with querying. Can the ZCatalog do it? Does it make
sense to implement a SQLZCatalog instead of just offering native SQL query
objects or an abstract query language like SkinSkript? To put it simply: The
reason why we want to develop a framework (or framework extension) is that
the Zope framework just doesn't do the stuff we need yet. BTW, the reason
why we didn't just use ZPatterns was very similar: ZPatterns makes it easy
to write an abstract implementation of a project, but you still have to
write all the glue code between the storage and the application layer by
hand. What we want (and what TransWarp is about, with a slightly different
focus) is that we can just map an attribute to a data source and all the
glue code (either ZODB or SQL statements) is auto-generated.

If the new framework just extends the existing Zope API, I don't see a
problem. ZPatterns did not, but maybe it is just not that easy to do so (and
not all parts of the Zope API really should bear this name ...).

The really good thing about the whole discussion is that at the end we will
see much better where we should put things. We (the SmartObjects people at
iuveno) do not really want to have a completely new world of SmartObjects
that will require a new API to learn. We just want to add new functionality
to Zope, be it in the core or as mix-in classes, or through-the-web
products.

Joachim


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Re: [Zope-dev] Experiments with ORMapping

2001-05-14 Thread Joachim Werner

 My thought on this, is that you will be forced to explicitly consider the
 nature of this relationship and its storage at the application level.  If
 you write explicitly for ZODB, you might use a BTree, for example.  Or
 perhaps you'd have some kind of global container for the Tasks, with a
 Catalog to index them, and a method on TaskPerformer to query the Catalog.

 How would you propose to map this to an RDMS?  Well, substituting catalog
 queries might be relatively straightforward, but perhaps rather time
 consuming to develop in a generic way.  The BTree might give you a bit
more
 trouble.  Probably you'd have to end up using some sort of generic
 queryable containers that translated to BTrees or Catalogs or RDBMS
tables,
 depending...

 And lo!  You now have an application framework.  Oops.

I'll try to somehow get your and Shane's opinions together a bit: I think
Shane's approach does most of the job (of OR mapping) if the objects we are
talking about are relatively simple and the application domain is relatively
typical for what Zope can do well. E.g. the composite objects we have in
mind for the groupware (user credentials coming from LDAP, rest in the ZODB,
or file stored in the filesystem metadata in SQL DB, rest in ZODB) can
easily be modelled this way. And the existing Zope API (manage_AddX,
manage_changeProperties etc.) would do most of the job.

But the problems start with querying. Can the ZCatalog do it? Does it make
sense to implement a SQLZCatalog instead of just offering native SQL query
objects or an abstract query language like SkinSkript? To put it simply: The
reason why we want to develop a framework (or framework extension) is that
the Zope framework just doesn't do the stuff we need yet. BTW, the reason
why we didn't just use ZPatterns was very similar: ZPatterns makes it easy
to write an abstract implementation of a project, but you still have to
write all the glue code between the storage and the application layer by
hand. What we want (and what TransWarp is about, with a slightly different
focus) is that we can just map an attribute to a data source and all the
glue code (either ZODB or SQL statements) is auto-generated.

If the new framework just extends the existing Zope API, I don't see a
problem. ZPatterns did not, but maybe it is just not that easy to do so (and
not all parts of the Zope API really should bear this name ...).

The really good thing about the whole discussion is that at the end we will
see much better where we should put things. We (the SmartObjects people at
iuveno) do not really want to have a completely new world of SmartObjects
that will require a new API to learn. We just want to add new functionality
to Zope, be it in the core or as mix-in classes, or through-the-web
products.

Joachim


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