Alt-TAL (Re: [Zope-dev] i18n for CMF And Plone, backporting i18n to Zope 2.x)
On Mon, Jul 01, 2002 at 03:49:07PM -0300, Sidnei da Silva wrote: On Seg 01 Jul 2002 15:26, Jim Fulton wrote: | I'll add that the current ZPT implementation is too slow | (thanks to recent DTML speedups ;). | | ZPT needs to be as fast as or faster than DTML. It would be | great if it was cleaner and more pluggable. I remember that i had the same concern when discussing this with lalo, and he told me that this should be faster, as TAL-Current stores a binary representation of the XML Parsed source, and his version is based on PAX, and this would not need to be pre-compiled and stored. Unfortunately I cannot give more information as this explanation seemed fine to me at that time. Our original prototypes of ZPT stored a DOM tree in the ZODB, so they only really parsed the source when it was updated. When the stuff was rewritten for optimization, DOM was done away with in favour of TAL bytecode which, for some reason, isn't stored persistently. I asked once, and I seem to remember the answer was it doesn't pickle well. Well, Alt-TAL is an experiment to see how fast a pluggable and readable version of TAL could be. My first step was to construct a bytecode that is pickleable and is not TAL-specific. This is PAX. I didn't yet announce PAX anywhere as it is evolving fast to meet the needs of Alt-TAL, but I plan to make it a package in its own right in the near future. In Alt-TAL, rendering TAL is a PAX Transform. This dawned on me as a result of a comment by Leo Almeida that TAL could probably be implemented as a XSLT sheet. Alt-TAL currently only implements the tal: namespace, and tal:on-error is missing because it implies an exception-handling infrastructure which I didn't yet even design. So, the reason I didn't announce Alt-TAL was that it was so incomplete. But in my tests (and I run tests on a very old ppc machine, so that I may get a visual feel for the speed differences), the few input templates that already pass, pass faster than with the original TAL. Of course this experience has a long way to go. I need tal:on-error, then all metal: stuff, then make a version of PageTemplate that uses Alt-TAL (originally I planned Alt-TAL to be a drop-in replacement, but that would impact performance very badly so I gave up), then benchmark and optimize and benchmark and rinse and repeat. In a very extreme case, PAX (or perhaps PAX transform) can be optimized into C or Pyrex. As it has a lot of for loops, I assume this would be a gain. Of course, as my design skills are stronger than my coding skills, and as my optimizing skills are very very weak [;-)], I invite anyone interested in this experience to join in. []s, |alo + -- It doesn't bother me that people say things like you'll never get anywhere with this attitude. In a few decades, it will make a good paragraph in my biography. You know, for a laugh. -- http://www.laranja.org/mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://www.laranja.org/pessoal/pgp Eu jogo RPG! (I play RPG) http://www.eujogorpg.com.br/ Python Foundry Guide http://www.sf.net/foundry/python-foundry/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Are there Graphic Designers?
On Sat, Apr 06, 2002 at 10:52:27AM +0100, Adrian Hungate wrote: My question is this: Everyone is saying The ZMI is bad, it's confusing, users don't like it. Which everyone? Not me. Could anyone show me evidence of this? Personally I love the ZMI in the current versions. I have also found there is a negligable learning curve for users who already know how to use Windows Explorer and similar products. I just don't see the need to throw out the ZMI - Are we in a baby/bathwater situation here? We're not throwing out the ZMI. We're writing something similar for Zope3. The name is ZopeTop. []s, |alo + -- It doesn't bother me that people say things like you'll never get anywhere with this attitude. In a few decades, it will make a good paragraph in my biography. You know, for a laugh. -- http://www.laranja.org/mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://www.laranja.org/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://www.BroDar.org/ Python Foundry Guide http://www.sf.net/foundry/python-foundry/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] Are there Graphic Designers?
On Thu, Apr 04, 2002 at 03:05:39PM -0600, Stephan Richter wrote: Hello everyone, as we are moving forward developing Zope 3 with large steps, it becomes more and more desirable to think about a nice frontend (ZMI) for Zope 3. However the skill set of the developers currently working on Zope 3 does not include good graphics design skills. For this reason the development team is looking for one to two good graphic artists who would like to work on the look and feel of the new Zope version. Since it is fully developed from scratch, there are almost no restrictions, other than: It has to be functional. Are there any takers? I propose to base the Zope3 ZMI on the Plone CMF skin (designed primarily by the talented Alexander Limi and Vidar Andersen with important coding by Alan Runyan), which can be seen at http://plone.org. I don't know if Limi group are available to do the work themselves, unless ZC hires them for the job, but I don't think they would object either. I know at least Alan has a lot of interest in Z3. As I'm skinning Plone/CMF for my primary job, I'd be willing to do (or coordinate if other people want to help) the work of adapting the skin to Zope3 needs. []s, |alo + -- It doesn't bother me that people say things like you'll never get anywhere with this attitude. In a few decades, it will make a good paragraph in my biography. You know, for a laugh. -- http://www.laranja.org/mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://www.laranja.org/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://www.BroDar.org/ Python Foundry Guide http://www.sf.net/foundry/python-foundry/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] masquerading python products as functions
On Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 11:38:20PM +1200, Mick wrote: Hi, I am trying to make a product act like an external method, or dtmlmethod. Basically I have taken the minimal product and added a __call__ function. It works fine, and can be called as a function of the object that contains it. The problem is that the minimal objects namespace is also pushed onto the stack, and to get out of it I need to go through self.aq_parent. You may want to try out Shared.DC.Scripts.Script. I have a (preliminary) HOWTO at http://www.zope.org/Members/lalo/scriptclass-dev []s, |alo + -- http://www.laranja.org/mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://www.laranja.org/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://www.BroDar.org/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] RFC: How-To on subclassing Shared.DC.Scripts.Script.Script
I'm thinking here that subclassing Script is the way to go for any object that needs finer control on how it is called - and I'll say that of any class that doesn't just do index_html = HTMLFile(foo, globals()) So, I wrote a How-To. It's definitely not ready for prime-time, as I haven't actually used it to implement a class, but I think it's correct. I'd appreciate if people took a look at it and commented both on correctness and clarity/usefulness. It is at http://www.zope.org/Members/lalo/scriptclass-dev now; this is a ZWikiPage, so you can comment right there. The real address will be http://www.zope.org/Members/lalo/scriptclass when it's ready. []s, |alo + -- http://www.laranja.org/mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://www.laranja.org/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://www.BroDar.org/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: How-To on subclassing Shared.DC.Scripts.Script.Script
On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 06:36:30PM -0500, Stephan Richter wrote: But when I started reading it, I wanted to learn more of how I could implement a new scripting language into Zope, such as a ZOQL (as mentioned on the SmartObjects mailing list: http://imail.iuveno-net.de/pipermail/smartobjects/), Tcl, XQuery or XPath. Even though your usage of the Script-class is unique and obviously useful, I think you should make a note, that will not describe how to implement another scripting language. But other than that, I learned something new. Thank you :-) I don't think I could teach something as generic as this; the process would be completely different for each language, and depend on your interpreter. For starters, PythonScript and ZopePageTemplates are completely different. The classes to add new scripting languages would be similar up to the point I described in my How-To, I'm afraid. Up from there, it's you and your interpreter. []s, |alo + -- Esvazie sua mente, pequeno gafanhoto. Nós temos muito o que aprender... mas primeiro... Primeiro você terá que desaprender o que acha que já sabe. -- http://www.laranja.org/mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://www.laranja.org/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://www.BroDar.org/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] ANNOUNCE: Zope 2.4.0 alpha 1 released
On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 07:33:43AM +1000, Albert Langer wrote: A note to component developers - as of Zope 2.4 ExtensionClass has not been updated to support all of the new magic protocols that Python classes support (we're hoping that EC will go away soon). What does hoping that EC will go away soon mean? I thought that ExtensionClass was pretty fundamental to Zope?? Does this just mean that the limitation on magic protocols will go away soon, or is there some URL I should look at re replacement for EC? EC are a fix for a problem that shouldn't exist in Python (inability to inherit from classes defined in C/C++). By hoping that EC will go away soon, I assume they mean the PythonLabs folks are working on fixing this for once in Python itself. Right? []s, |alo + -- I say a prayer now our love's departed That you'll come back to stay Bring back the perfect day http://www.laranja.org/mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://www.laranja.org/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://www.BroDar.org/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] What would *you* like to have in PropertyManager and friends?
raise ZopeProject('http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/PropertyRevamp')
We at Hiperlogica realize a lot of you people prefer to write
your code in Python in the filesystem. However, we also believe
the power of Zope's trough-the-web RAD framework is one of the
reasons for its success; more importantly, it's a good part of
the reason it works for *us*.
In this spirit, we fired up HiperDom a few months ago, and
we're now working on ZUnitTTW to allow developers to unit test
their ZClasses and even their very sites.
Now, we've been taking note of a lot of peeves we have with
Properties, in the past one year or so. After all this time,
and dealing with some Zope internals, we feel confident enough
to propose to fix them.
So we're raising a Project in the fishbowl to implement these
changes. But before we dive in the mud, we'd like to hear from
people that really use Properties (and/or ZClasses), or that
would use them if they were more powerful. Please go to the
Proposal page, linked above, and tell us what you think.
[]s,
|alo
+
--
I say a prayer now our love's departed
That you'll come back to stay
Bring back the perfect day
http://www.laranja.org/mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
pgp key: http://www.laranja.org/pessoal/pgp
Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://www.BroDar.org/
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Re: [Zope-dev] zunit 0.2 comments
On Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 09:34:53PM -0700, Simon Michael wrote: Zope or the codeit setup didn't seem to see things in INSTANCE_HOME/Shared and I don't have access to SOFTWARE_HOME/Shared. Hmm. Rolled newspaper for them. :-) What's the reason for this new level of indirection, the ExternalTestCase object ? And do you think this name is appropriate ? (I am confused about tests vs test cases vs test suites) It's a refactoring to prepare for 0.3, where we'll have the actual TestCase object. This object will allow you to write tests TTW. Yes, we know a lot of you don't want to do that. Don't worry, ExternalTestCase will always be there ;-) But you have to realize that there are also a lot of people who just won't touch Python code in the filesystem whenever possible. If you're testing a ZClass-based Product, it would be completely cumbersome to use PyUnit. Also, any ideas about the following which I get when running either my own tests or the samples: (...) AttributeError: id Mumble mumble. Probably API incompatibility between Zope versions? We'll look further into it. (Recent versions are deprecating direct access to the 'id' attribute, specially because you don't know when it's a string and when it's a method... we should have used getId()) We now have a SourceForge project, feel free to report bugs and browse our open tasks to see where we're going :-) []s, |alo + -- I say a prayer now our love's departed That you'll come back to stay Bring back the perfect day http://www.laranja.org/mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://www.laranja.org/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://www.BroDar.org/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] zunit 0.2 comments
On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 01:21:01AM -0700, Simon Michael wrote:
Hi Lalo,
thanks for your work on ZUnit. I have just been playing with 0.2.
Thank you for your feedback.
To get it working in my zope account at Codeit, I moved Hiper from
Shared/ to Products/ and changed the import statements.
Why?
I also needed to make some changes of this kind:
#manage_RunTestsForm =
Globals.HTMLFile('Products/ZUnit/dtml/TestRunner/RunTests')
manage_RunTestsForm =
Globals.HTMLFile('dtml/TestRunner/RunTests',globals())
Ooops :-) this proves that Pair Programming doesn't catch them *all*.
I'm having trouble figuring out the syntax of the test_ids
property. Can you help ?
Each line is the Id of an ExternalTestCase object. You can use
RestrictedTraversal, as in MyFolder/tests/MyTestCase.
[]s,
|alo
+
--
I say a prayer now our love's departed
That you'll come back to stay
Bring back the perfect day
http://www.laranja.org/mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
pgp key: http://www.laranja.org/pessoal/pgp
Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://www.BroDar.org/
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[Zope-dev] WebDAV etc permissions (Re: zope nautilus cabal)
On Fri, Apr 13, 2001 at 11:48:39PM +0100, Chris Withers wrote: The WebDAV (and XMLRPC) stuff either needs to be decomposed to run on its own port (and only that port) or more explicit permissions need to be associated with WebDAV/XMLRPC operations if we take for granted that being able to browse the root folder structure is a bad thing. (...) Basically, 'access contents information' isn't a great permission. If you turn if off, life gets horrible, if you leave it on, bits hang out. I'd prefer to see something like: - Access Contents Information via HTTP - Access Contents Information via FTP ..etc... When I crawled out of bed today it ocurred to me that there is a very reasonable sollution already. We've had a "FTP access" permission for ages. So, either: - make WebDAV, XMLRPC etc protected by "View Management Screens" - make WebDAV, XMLRPC etc protected by "FTP access" - make WebDAV, XMLRPC etc protected by "DAV/RPC access" (a new permission) yes? []s, |alo + -- I say a prayer now our love's departed That you'll come back to stay Bring back the perfect day http://www.laranja.org/mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://www.laranja.org/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://www.BroDar.org/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Confused by accuisition, need help
On Sun, Apr 08, 2001 at 11:14:51PM +0200, Robert Rottermann wrote: Hi there, I need the help with the following situation: The easiest way is to make more use of DTML and not try to bend it so much: dtml-in expr="PARENTS[0].data()" OPTION selected value="dtml-var sequence-index" dtml-var sequence-item /OPTION /dtml-in Instead, try just dtml-in data. Now my problem: in index_html I only would like to splice the various parts togezher. Like so: some glue dtml-var expr="PARENTS[0].data.projects.show()" dtml-var expr="PARENTS[0].data.documents.show()" /some glue Try this: some glue dtml-with data dtml-with projects dtml-var show /dtml-with dtml-with documents dtml-var show /dtml-with /dtml-with /some glue Or something like that. When you call stuff with "name=" instead of "expr=", you let DocumentTemplate do the calling for you, and then your methods will be called with the correct parameters. []s, |alo + -- I say a prayer now our love's departed That you'll come back to stay Bring back the perfect day http://www.laranja.org/mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://www.laranja.org/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://www.BroDar.org/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Confused by accuisition, need help
BTW - you're not confused by Acquisition, you're confused by DocumentTemplate's calling conventions (you can't call it with zero parameters, not if you want it to work anyway) []s, |alo + -- I say a prayer now our love's departed That you'll come back to stay Bring back the perfect day http://www.laranja.org/mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://www.laranja.org/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://www.BroDar.org/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Can't _setObject???
Hi there I just found out (while coding ZUnit 0.2) that ZUnit 0.1 doesn't work on Zope 2.3.x for some reason. The method manage_startTests of the TestRunner class creates an instance of TestResults, runs the tests with it (using RESPONSE.write(), if this makes a difference), then adds it to itself using self._setObject(). On Zope 2.2.x this works like a charm. On 2.3.x it doesn't bomb, doesn't raise an exception and doesn't set my house on fire, but the TestResults object simply isn't persisted. We tried all kinds of desperate things, like setting _p_changed on both TestRunner and TestResults, and doing a get_transaction().commit() - nothing changes. Out of curiosity, we enabled the addlist in TestRunner and sure enough, you can add objects via the addlist and they persist normally. Anyone has a clue? Of all things that changed between 2.2 and 2.3, which one can be killing us like that? []s, |alo + -- I say a prayer now our love's departed That you'll come back to stay Bring back the perfect day http://www.laranja.org/mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://www.laranja.org/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG) --- http://www.BroDar.org/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope] ANNOUNCE: Zope 2.3.0 alpha 1 released...
Found a bug, I think... when I try to add a property to a PropertyManager (but not a PropertySheet?) I get: Error Type: ImportError Error Value: cannot import name checkValidId Traceback (innermost last): File /opt/Zope-2.3.0a1-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 222, in publish_module File /opt/Zope-2.3.0a1-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 187, in publish File /opt/Zope-2.3.0a1-src/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line 221, in zpublisher_exception_hook (Object: Traversable) File /opt/Zope-2.3.0a1-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 171, in publish File /opt/Zope-2.3.0a1-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/mapply.py, line 160, in mapply (Object: manage_addProperty) File /opt/Zope-2.3.0a1-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 112, in call_object (Object: manage_addProperty) File /opt/Zope-2.3.0a1-src/lib/python/OFS/PropertyManager.py, line 318, in manage_addProperty (Object: Traversable) File /opt/Zope-2.3.0a1-src/lib/python/OFS/PropertyManager.py, line 247, in _setProperty (Object: Traversable) ImportError: (see above) []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) The biggest site for whatever-it-is-that-we-are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] ZUnit - feedback convocation
On Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 02:56:26PM -0800, Michel Pelletier wrote: On Mon, 4 Dec 2000, Lalo Martins wrote: The first section is the advocacy section; it will begin with "if you already do unit tests, you may want to skip this section". I'm not sure if the history lesson is out of scope, but "Why do you want to use it" is probably better. Hmm... actually in that case you may want to axe both "why" and the history. I agree. At most, one paragraph about each could go in "What is Unit Testing". What does "refactor mercilessly!" mean? I'll explain that one of the benefits of unit testing extensively is that you can modify your code without fear (you'll know when it breaks). This section is more advocacy than technical. Ah, ok I like it. I wonder if "refactor" is the right word; it's very specific and it sounds like any kind of changing can be done. "Refactor Mercilessly!" is one of the "practices" of XP, and an expression (XPression?) they like to throw around. Also, yes, any kind of changing can be done, if the tests cover it :-) (except that if you develop new functionality, you must write new tests too) I allocated a subsection for this because just explaining the problem is already somewhat convoluted, as you see above ;-) in a printed book, I'd make it a sidebar or something, but... Hmm. I guess my concern was because it was the only subsection of 'Fixtures'. Do fixtures need a more topical breakdown or are they simple enough to sum up in one section? Maybe we can think of some 'fixture use cases'. I don't think so. I think I just broke the rules. When I added this subsection I was thinking more about some kind of sidebar, not a real subsection - fixtures definitely don't need their own topical breakdown. As there is no provision for "sidebars" or "boxes" in the informal standard format we've been using for these docs, I'll move the note about this issue one level up. []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) The biggest site for whatever-it-is-that-we-are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] OracleStorage, and possibly others
On Thu, Nov 30, 2000 at 08:10:15AM -0500, Jim Fulton wrote: Lalo Martins wrote: Please help stamp out Data.fs! :-) I don't think Data.fs will go away. I do expect it to be relagated to initial evaluation and development projects. Use of Berkely DB in transactional mode requires a significant andminstration commitment. Log files need to be purged. Backup and recovery processes need to be in place. A similar cost is associated with using Oracle and many other databases, I expect. People aren't going to want to deal with these issues when initially trying and learning Zope (or ZODB). Sometime it will, I hope. Or at least, be relegated to non-Zope ZODBs where the data volume is very small. But FileStorage will not be replaced by any of the current alternatives, I agree. []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) The biggest site for whatever-it-is-that-we-are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] ZUnit - feedback convocation
Hi all I'trying to write a document on ZUnit and Unit Testing in general, following Michel's and Amos' documentation process. I wrote an outline, and now I'm stuck :-) anyone with a few free moments is welcome to take a look and send me some words. Also, anyone very interested in the subject is welcome to volunteer for editorial help (read the Process to know what this means). Thank you. (BTW, if you can't understand what an "outline" is, read the process too. Oh what the heck. If you haven't read it, then read it, it's very cool reading anyway.) []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) The biggest site for whatever-it-is-that-we-are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar Unit testing Zope Products with ZUnit by Lalo Martins Unit Testing What is Unit Testing Where does it come from How should it be done Refactor mercilessly! Writing Tests Importing ZUnit The TestCase class Interfacing with the Zope environment Fixtures The persistence problem - leaving traces behind Grouping tests in TestSuites Wrapping it all up in a creator function Running the tests The TestRunner object TestResults objects Leaving objects behind for debugging
Re: [Zope-dev] OracleStorage, and possibly others
On Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 07:02:50AM -0500, Chris McDonough wrote: Of course it would, for the same reasons as OracleStorage (eg FileStorage/Data.fs is inefficient) Actually, it's the other way around. OracleStorage is 30-to-50 times slower than FileStorage on writes. Reads are slow too but the slowness is somewhat negated by caching. Chris, that's only true for small databases. At about 100M of Data.fs, OracleStorage starts being faster. It depends on hardware too. We made some benchmarks on a major Brazilian portal, and well, it's currently running OracleStorage. Anyway, I said "inefficient", not "slow". []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) The biggest site for whatever-it-is-that-we-are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] OracleStorage, and possibly others
On Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 10:13:15AM -0500, Chris McDonough wrote: It sounds like you've done more comprehensive speed testing than we have. Can you share some numbers? Unfortunately no, I can't. We made measurements during a consulting job I did for another company, and it was made by them, not me, *plus* I wasn't smart enough to save a copy of the numbers :-/ Anyway, the biggest problem they had was stability, their ZODB grows and shrinks insickening speeds, and Data.fs would break for some reasons I don't remember anymore, and OracleFS solved that. I'll try to convince them to write a report to the list. - Original Message - From: "Lalo Martins" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] OracleStorage, and possibly others On Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 07:02:50AM -0500, Chris McDonough wrote: Of course it would, for the same reasons as OracleStorage (eg FileStorage/Data.fs is inefficient) Actually, it's the other way around. OracleStorage is 30-to-50 times slower than FileStorage on writes. Reads are slow too but the slowness is somewhat negated by caching. Chris, that's only true for small databases. At about 100M of Data.fs, OracleStorage starts being faster. It depends on hardware too. We made some benchmarks on a major Brazilian portal, and well, it's currently running OracleStorage. Anyway, I said "inefficient", not "slow". []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) The biggest site for whatever-it-is-that-we-are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] BerkeleyStorage (Re: [Zope-dev] OracleStorage, and possibly others)
On Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 04:28:26PM +, Ty Sarna wrote: Lalo Martins wrote: What about the other Storage projects? BerkeleyStorage has been dead for an year. It's not dead, it's just pining for the fjords! Seriously, AFAIK it still works, and it's mainly just stalled waiting for some interest. It could stand to be updated to BerkeleyDB 3, but that was blocked on having an updated Python BerkeleyDB module for a while. Now there is an updated version, so it should be easy to update the storage. The main thing BerkeleyStorage is lacking is interest -- I don't need it currently for the purpose for which it was developed, and nobody else seems to need it much either. It looked for a while like it might get a boost from the Sessions project, but that's stalled for the moment as well. I think a BerkeleyDB3-based Storage would be a very cool option if versioning was optional instead of missing. (Then again, this is almost getting to my dreamed XDeltaStorage...) []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) The biggest site for whatever-it-is-that-we-are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] License issues
On Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 06:40:31PM +0100, Juan David Ibáñez Palomar wrote: has come to my ears that there's people who doesn't use Zope because its license is GPL-incompatible, more info here: http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/license-list.html#GPLIncompatibleLicenses They say it's an instance of "the obnoxious advertising clause". I tend to agree, this clause should be removed. All my non-Zope software is GPLed, all my Zope software has a very permissive X11-like license without the obnoxious adv. clause. []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] OracleStorage, and possibly others
Well, two betas of OracleStorage in one day, then a month and a half of silence. What's the status? What about the other Storage projects? BerkeleyStorage has been dead for an year, and I heard pretty nasty words about InterbaseStorage. What about someone who wanted to try to port OracleStorage to Postgres or some other RDBMS? Please help stamp out Data.fs! :-) []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] [Ann] ZUnit released
Okay, the cat is out of the bag (in fact, going to Rio for the weekend) and the worms are out of the can (better worms than bugs, anyway). ZUnit, the Product all lazy programmers were so afraid of, is available for review and download from your usual shop at http://www.zope.org/Members/lalo/ZUnit completely FREE, from the hands of your friends Lalo and Hiperlógica! In comemoration of the release, we're holding the "meta-testing contest": Whoever contributes some unit tests for ZUnit itself, will win her name in the credits, plus a better and more stable Product in the future, and an exclusive Warm Fuzzy Feeling (TM)! Don't miss this oportunity! Check it out right now! []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Streaming?
Is it possible to "stream" (send data to the client via HTTP incrementally) from Python code, or does ZPublisher only send the data as a single wad when the method returns? Assuming it is possible, obviously it requires using some other API rather than just 'return'ing a string... where can I find documentation and/or examples on that? If there is no existing documentation or examples, source code would do. (Context: when the tests are running on ZUnit, I'd like to give some visual feedback, if possible by sending the dots returning by PyUnit in real-time) []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Streaming?
On Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 12:23:36PM +1100, Terry Kerr wrote: Isn't that dependant on the protocol u are using to transfer the data? HTTP can't do streaming. You can sort of do streaming using the experimental multipart content type, but IE browers don't recognise it, so it is pretty useless. What are you talking about? Try to load any standard html page with a very slow connection. If you just send the data slowly, the browser will show it as it is received. That's streaming. You can point an mp3 or realaudio player at an URL and it will download the file and play it as it arrives. That's the kind of streaming I want to do. []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Streaming?
On Mon, Oct 30, 2000 at 12:48:53PM +1100, Terry Kerr wrote: That is not streaming. That is just as you said..lack of bandwidth delaying the entire page arriving at once at you browser. That is not contolled. The server doesn't send it 'bit by bit' in a controlled manner. But if it did, the results would be exactly the same. Actually, that's exactly what most people refer to when they say "streaming". This is getting way off-topic. I want to know if there is an API for that, not to discuss the meaning of the word. []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Unit testing, ZUnit - It is in the fishbowl, please comment
The proposal below is in the fishbowl, at http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/UnitTestingProducts The approach will be, developing the standalone ZUnit Product while the proposal is in the fishbowl, then push for the proposal (integrating it with App/Product*.py). Expect a first release of ZUnit next week or in the other. In the meanwhile, please comment in the proposal's discussion page :-) (or here) On Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 10:56:31PM -0200, Lalo Martins wrote: We (I and Hiperlógica) started to develop a Product we called ZUnit, intended for XP-style unit-testing Python-based Products in a full Zope environment (with a real ZODB, REQUEST, RESPONSE, etc). We first conceived it as a kind of Zope-based version of unittestgui.py - you create a "TestRunner" object giving it the package, module and name of a TestSuite object generator (see the PyUnit documentation) and inside it you may click on some widget to run the tests and produce a "TestResult" object which you can inspect later. Does this sound like a good design? Then I figured in the long run a Product isn't the best sollution; instead, fiddling with App/Product* sounds more like it, to allow developers to register tests just like they register classes, ZClass superclasses, _misc and help. Of course, just like the current registerHelp and others, it wouldn't be mandatory and not using it wouldn't break anything. Then, in the Product's page in the Control Panel, there would be a tab "Test", where you'd be allowed to run the unit tests. What do people think of this? What does DC think of this? Can I go ahead and develop it in this direction? []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Unit testing, ZUnit
We (I and Hiperlógica) started to develop a Product we called ZUnit, intended for XP-style unit-testing Python-based Products in a full Zope environment (with a real ZODB, REQUEST, RESPONSE, etc). We first conceived it as a kind of Zope-based version of unittestgui.py - you create a "TestRunner" object giving it the package, module and name of a TestSuite object generator (see the PyUnit documentation) and inside it you may click on some widget to run the tests and produce a "TestResult" object which you can inspect later. Does this sound like a good design? Then I figured in the long run a Product isn't the best sollution; instead, fiddling with App/Product* sounds more like it, to allow developers to register tests just like they register classes, ZClass superclasses, _misc and help. Of course, just like the current registerHelp and others, it wouldn't be mandatory and not using it wouldn't break anything. Then, in the Product's page in the Control Panel, there would be a tab "Test", where you'd be allowed to run the unit tests. What do people think of this? What does DC think of this? Can I go ahead and develop it in this direction? (I will create a proposal in dev.zope.org, but I want to get some feedback here first to flesh out the proposal a little more.) []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Strange Error - in collector yet?
On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 10:01:15AM +0100, Chris Withers wrote: Lalo Martins wrote: This is on Zope 2.2.1. I'd really appreciate some clues on how to bust these ghosts. Have you put a full description in the bug collector yet? Now it is. It was assigned number 1676. I also busted my ghosts - by manually manipulating the ZODB via Python. Felt kind like a brain surgery - on myself, using a paperclip, a pencil and a pocket mirror. But it worked. (To the tune of the Ghostbusters Theme by Ray Parker Jr.) "An invisible ZClass sleeping in your bed? Who you're gonna call? Py-thon!" []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] HiperDom 0.1 is out
We released HiperDom 0.1 Saturday (this message is dated Monday
because it's when the objects got cataloged).
This version is Python-based, fully functional to the last
letter of the spec (except for hdom:method where we cleaned up
the interface a bit), fully HelpSys'ed, heck, it even has an
icon.
Oh, it has an undocumented feature too. Actually lots of 'em;
I have to write about manage_getTemplate somewhere for the next
version... but what I'm talking about right now is the hdom:id
directive used for creating "assets" like we discussed
previously in the "HiperDOM and xmlc" thread.
When you expand a section marked with hdom:text, before
discarding the contents, the engine hunts for elements marked
with hdom:id in it. Those found are added to the namespace.
...
p hdom:text="greeting"This paragraph will be replaced by a
greeting to span hdom:id="person"Lalo/span and span
hdom:id="company"Hiperlógica/span./p
...
The method "greeting" will be executed with a namespace as **kw
(I don't know how flexible is this, but it's how DTML does it).
In this namespace there will be at least
{'person': 'spanLalo/span', 'company': 'spanHiperlógica/span'}.
This feature isn't documented on purpose, since this subject is
far from settled and it is very possible that this isn't the
best sollution. But it's _a_ sollution and it's there to be
tested - "running code" :-)
We'll be away from this code for about two weeks, as we have an
urgent job to deliver to a big customer whose identity is so
ironic that I'll have to tell you folks as soon as I'm sure I'm
allowed to.
Anyway, I'd like everyone interested to try it out in this
meantime, send us your feedback, and discuss it here and/or on
the HiperDomWiki. I'll have an eye (and a few fingers) on this
discussion.
Thank you for your time, have a nice day. :-)
[]s,
|alo
+
--
Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org )
News for, uh, whatever it is that we are.
http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp
Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar
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[Zope-dev] ZPL HowTo?
We wished to release the new development version of HiperDom under the ZPL, but we figured it wouldn't be that simple, as the license text is all littered with "Digital Creations". Is it just a matter of s/Digital Creations/Hiperlógica/g? Is this even legal? (This message is mostly rethorical, because we already decided to just release it under the MIT-X11 license anyway, but I feel this question should be discussed if people want to release stuff under the ZPL in the future.) []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] User objects on 2.2
On Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 11:22:49PM -0300, Lalo Martins wrote: Why doesn't Anonymous have permission to call has_permission on itself? This is counter-intuitive to say the least... Ooops... they have, kind of. The Anonymous user object inherits the permissions from the top-level User Folder (/acl_users). This is kind of weird and should be documented, but is usable. (So, to allow Anonymous to call has_permission on itself you have to enable "Access content information" for Anonymous on /acl_users) []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] HiperDOM xmlc
On Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 12:42:00PM -0400, Paul Everitt wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BTW, please don't call the solution "xHTML Template"; it's not xHTML, it's generic XML - it can easily be used for RSS or WML or MathML or NewsML for example. While it *can* be used that way (just as DTML can be used to send mail messages), that's not the real intent of this proposal nor is that the real audience. Our proposal it focused on letting HTML-oriented people with HTML-oriented tools create compliant stuff for the presentation job. Why? WML-oriented people with WML-oriented tools would benefit from it just as much, for example. (Are there WML-oriented tools already?) []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] HiperDOM xmlc
On Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 03:51:35PM -0400, Shane Hathaway wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why? WML-oriented people with WML-oriented tools would benefit from it just as much, for example. (Are there WML-oriented tools already?) What Paul is saying is that we need to make it work for XHTML first. It makes it easier to talk about with those less familiar with XML (especially XML namespaces.) Then with a very small amount of work we can expand it to all XML schemas. I can see how this makes sense as a strategy, but technically it just doesn't... we're not using any features specific to xHTML, and by all means we shouldn't. So, the way it is today it already works with any XML schema. []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] User objects on 2.2
Why doesn't Anonymous have permission to call has_permission on itself? This is counter-intuitive to say the least... []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] HiperDOM xmlc
On Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 08:21:21AM -0400, Paul Everitt wrote: I'm surprised that no one responded to this. (Or maybe people did and our continual email server problems have lost it.) Me too. I'd like to congratulate Hiperlogica, because they have (ding ding ding) the _right answer_! :^) Thank you :-) We feel good about this answer too. Seriously, we at Digital Creations have been quietly formulating a proposal on this since Amos put up the template proposal in dev.zope.org. I floated some trial balloons at EuroZope and it's clear there's some consensus. Glad to know that. Our "XHTML Templates Proposal" is at: http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/XHTMLTemplatesProposal It is not linked on the Proposals FrontPage... -- Anyway, at least for HiperDOM I feel comfortable with the word "template" because that's what it is about. The two primary motivations for the design are: * You can create the layout with any XML-compliant editor; if the template is xHTML, you can use a XHTML-compliant WYSIWYG tool. Or, thanks to the modern XML technology, you can use a WYSIWYG HTML tool and pass it trough a SGML-XML filter to get xHTML. Using specialized webdesigners with Zope project has been one of the biggest pains in Zope development; we have to take the sometimes ugly code generated by the tools they use, usually clean it up, then insert the DTML tags in it. Making changes to the design is a nightmare. * The template looks like the rendered page; if you don't want to fire up Zope, or if the application logic is not yet finished, you can preview the layout by simply loading the template in a browser. These goals are similar, but not identical to the ones in the proposal. Still, some parts of the proposal felt like extracted rigth out of my mind :-) I don't feel good about calling the layers "document" and "view" or "presentation" and "data" because the "view" is not strictly presentation code; invariant (static) parts shared by all pages rendered with that template can be in the template. As much as we all like to talk about "Web Applications", this is not exactly like "normal" application design, where you can draw a clear line between presentation and data (or model/view). -- The only thing I _don't_ feel good about this kind of template is that, in practice, we will probably lose the benefits of things like dtml-var standard_html_header - meaning, when you want to change the header of your site, you'll have to edit all your templates. Of course a site where this is a problem still _can_ use "includes" like standard_html_header, but I believe most won't. []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] HiperDOM xmlc
We (I and Hiperlogica, a company I consult with) have been developing a template renderer with similar intent to xmlc (be based on XML/DOM, allow the template to be previewed and edited using tools not aware of the format, such as xHTML editors, and enforce presentation/logic separation). As the project is somewhat on hold while we have more pressing issues, I decided to share the current (rather kludgy) prototype with the community. It is at http://www.zope.org/Members/lalo/HiperDOM/ On Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 02:06:08PM +, Jason Spisak wrote: Zope Devers, THis is going to seem strange coming from someone who hasn't been on the list in a long time, but I was at the Linux Expo in San Jose, and sat in on a Web app talk. Lutris was in charge of the panel, and they talked about xmlc. I went to their booth and asked about it. I think it could be the best way to get hard-core python people to jump on zope's band-wagon, and stop the dtml frowning. If you who are in the know about zope have time, please read a quick bit on what it is. http://xmlc.enhydra.org Especially the tutorial: http://staff.plugged.net.au/dwood/xmlc/index.html Is there any obvious reason why Zope wouldn't benefit tremendously from this design and programming separation and pure python boost? []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope] :xxx syntax (was: HTML Editors that recognize DTML)
On Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 07:49:21PM -0400, Jon Franz wrote: Also, its not XML compliant either, but I have a shorter dtml syntax patch available for download at: http://www.zope.org/Members/Coventry/dtml_shortcut it is a really small patch, and just allows : to replace dtml- or !--# inside your documents, such as in the snippet below: :var foo :if expr="la=lala" So you think la and lala are the same!? :else Ah, so you see a diffrence! /:if I like this syntax; I'm in favour of adding it to a future version of Zope (2.2.1?). Except that your patch says it's GPLed, and GPL code cannot be added to a ZPL product; please re-release as ZPL (I'm all in favour of GPL, but this is not a good case for it :-) ) []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Basic LoginManager HowTo
On Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 07:29:18PM -0600, Bill Anderson wrote: Has anyone out there actually sarted _using_ LoginManager with ZODB storage? IOW, one that is not dependant on LDAP/SQL/etc., but that is functioning in place of a non-PTK acl_users folder? I tried. It's quite easy, except that you have to store the user's password in a property, and access control is somewhat broken WRT passwords, so anyone can read anyone's passwords if they can write DTML. Now I don't plan to just let anyone write DTML, but I don't want to leave this hole open because I know I will forget it sooner or later and open up an exploit. []s, |alo + -- Hack and Roll ( http://www.hackandroll.org ) News for, uh, whatever it is that we are. http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp key: http://zope.gf.com.br/lalo/pessoal/pgp Brazil of Darkness (RPG)--- http://zope.gf.com.br/BroDar ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
