Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 4 release management

2012-02-06 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 11/17/2011 07:01 PM, Martin Aspeli wrote: I would actually argue that Zope4 have no real release cycle at all: instead, the individual pieces which make up Zope should have their own cycles, with perhaps a ZTK-like tracking set that Plone and others use as platform targets. -1 - we'll need

Re: [Zope-dev] congrats on the new zope.org launch, but..

2011-07-15 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hey, On 07/11/2011 06:09 PM, Andreas Jung wrote: According to zope.org Gork is more like ZPT than it is like BlueBream. Griok is more like CMF than it is like BlueBream. This is because Grok is listed under the grab-bag framework category. I partly agree with you - I think Grok can be

Re: [Zope-dev] congrats on the new zope.org launch, but..

2011-07-15 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 07/15/2011 03:13 PM, Hanno Schlichting wrote: On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Martijn Faassenfaas...@startifact.com wrote: I'd just call the category web framework; 2 out of 3 already say they are. Zope can then itself say in its description that it's an application server if that's an

[Zope-dev] congrats on the new zope.org launch, but..

2011-07-08 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, Congrats on the relaunch of zope.org, I know it's been a hard slog! But I brought up an item twice already and nothing appears to have been done about it. According to zope.org Gork is more like ZPT than it is like BlueBream. Griok is more like CMF than it is like BlueBream. This is

Re: [Zope-dev] direction

2011-07-06 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 07/05/2011 12:22 PM, Jonas Meurer wrote: Since we don't market Zope2 anymore, I think there's actually much less confusion from this than we'd fear. It's just an internal version number used in some buildout files, not something that has any particular meaning. I don't like either of

Re: [Zope-dev] beta.zope.org (www.zope.org relaunch project)

2011-05-10 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, On 05/10/2011 06:55 AM, Andreas Jung wrote: Constructive criticism and feedback is welcome _now_. Application servers has Zope BlueBream. Then Grok's at the bottom under 'Frameworks' together with CMF, Repoze, ZCA, ZTK and ZPT. Grok is most like BlueBream and should be in a

Re: [Zope-dev] beta.zope.org (www.zope.org relaunch project)

2011-05-10 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, http://beta.zope.org/the-world-of-zope dekade - decade: And just talk about 'Zope community has grown' instead of starting with Zope Corp. and the Zope community, which I think gives the impression the community is some kind of appendage to Zope corp, the driving force behind it

Re: [Zope-dev] Test fixture concepts

2011-04-20 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 03/27/2011 05:13 PM, Martin Aspeli wrote: On 27 March 2011 15:54, Uli Fouquetu...@gnufix.de wrote: The (limited) experiences with py.test, however, were awesome. Some points that are quite cool IMHO: - Easy finding of tests: just write some ``test_function`` in a ``test_module`` and

Re: [Zope-dev] Test fixture concepts

2011-04-20 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 03/29/2011 02:43 PM, Wichert Akkerman wrote: On 3/29/11 14:40 , Stephan Richter wrote: Yeah, Marius led me recently to that path too. Write a narrative in text files and use doc strings of functions to do edge cases (or when you don't have time for the narrative). I am getting used to

Re: [Zope-dev] fanstatic and preprocessors

2011-04-17 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hey, [snip Wolfgang] [1] http://www.rubyinside.com/rails-3-1-adopts-coffeescript-jquery-sass-and-controversy-4669.html [2] https://github.com/sstephenson/sprockets Thanks for these links! We should investigate Sprockets to see what other features it has, and perhaps in the future

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope test layers, pytest, and test isolation

2011-03-24 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, [extensive introduction by Uli of zope.pytest] Thanks Uli for that introduction to the package and its problems! I've been using zope.pytest within 2 Grok projects so far to test through webob some JSON webservices, and it's worked well for me. I hadn't had to deal with the issue of

Re: [Zope-dev] Non-ZCML config for ZCA. (Was: Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?)

2011-03-22 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, It is my understanding that the ZTK is primarily to adopt proven solutions that arise from our community that we intend to be shared by this community. I'll also note that Martian is already in use in combination with Bluebream, Zope 2 and Grok. With that, I was thinking, concerning

Re: [Zope-dev] Non-ZCML config for ZCA. (Was: Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?)

2011-03-21 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, For Martian, Python 3 support is mostly an issue of making class directives work as class decorators. I'm not sure what Lennart means by point 1. Anyway, Grok's configuration is dependent on the rules you give it, so it's possible to have a completely explicit set of directives with

Re: [Zope-dev] Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?

2011-03-21 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 03/19/2011 10:02 PM, Lennart Regebro wrote: Getting ZCA/ZTK to run on PyPy is probably easier, and actually more useful. Maybe someone would want to mentor that? I agree it'd be easier and more useful. There's also interesting potential in exploiting PyPy's magic in things like security and

Re: [Zope-dev] Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?

2011-03-21 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 03/20/2011 02:31 PM, Jim Fulton wrote: On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Lennart Regebrorege...@gmail.com wrote: Getting ZCA/ZTK to run on PyPy is probably easier, and actually more useful. Maybe someone would want to mentor that? This is another porting project. If I was a student, I

Re: [Zope-dev] Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?

2011-03-21 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi, On 03/20/2011 03:28 PM, Jim Fulton wrote: Hm, it's been a while since I've looked at grok. Some notes: We have more than four years of experience with this topic... - The mechanism I'm thinking of should not require *any* ZCML. Check. we just bootstrap the grokking process from ZCML

Re: [Zope-dev] Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?

2011-03-21 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 03/21/2011 10:17 AM, Jan-Wijbrand Kolman wrote: - scanning can take a long time, making application (re)start slow for non-trivial projects At what point is an application not trivial anymore? In applications I build so far, startup time has not been an issue at all. But maybe my

Re: [Zope-dev] Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?

2011-03-21 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 03/20/2011 04:29 PM, Jim Fulton wrote: On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Hanno Schlichtingha...@hannosch.eu wrote: [snip] I think you cannot avoid this, if you want to support an explicit configuration phase. Otherwise the first import of a module could occur at any point at runtime and

Re: [Zope-dev] Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?

2011-03-21 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, On 03/20/2011 04:00 PM, Hanno Schlichting wrote: Taking one of the examples of grokcore.component, I think there's a lot that can be made simpler: import grokcore.component from zope.i18n.interfaces import ITranslationDomain class

Re: [Zope-dev] Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?

2011-03-21 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, On 03/20/2011 05:47 PM, Hanno Schlichting wrote: Maybe there's something in Grok that comes close to this. I've just not been able to distinguish the Grok the web framework code with its convention over configuration idea from some basic explicit configuration approach. I don't

Re: [Zope-dev] Non-ZCML config for ZCA. (Was: Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?)

2011-03-21 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 03/21/2011 03:07 PM, Lennart Regebro wrote: On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 14:17, Martijn Faassenfaas...@startifact.com wrote: Anyway, Grok's configuration is dependent on the rules you give it, so it's possible to have a completely explicit set of directives with no implicit fallback to default

Re: [Zope-dev] Non-ZCML config for ZCA. (Was: Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?)

2011-03-21 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 03/21/2011 03:28 PM, Jim Fulton wrote: I don't know what the right answer is ... at least not yet. :) In Django and sqlalchemy declarative a meta class is used for this kind of configuration. Since that is subclassing, it implies inheritance, I think. Of course metaclasses are not very

Re: [Zope-dev] Non-ZCML config for ZCA. (Was: Anyone want to do Google Summer of code mentoring for PSF?)

2011-03-21 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 03/21/2011 04:08 PM, Jim Fulton wrote: On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Martijn Faassen faas...@startifact.com wrote: On 03/21/2011 03:28 PM, Jim Fulton wrote: I don't know what the right answer is ... at least not yet. :) In Django and sqlalchemy declarative a meta class is used

Re: [Zope-dev] PyPy 1.4.1 and the ZTK

2010-12-23 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, On 12/22/2010 09:56 PM, Chris McDonough wrote: FWIW, for our web stuff I've found PyPy to be about 3X as slow as CPython (even allowing for the JIT to warm up). But the elephant dances! Any clue what's taking up the time? Do you think it's simply that it doesn't speed up

[Zope-dev] PyPy 1.4.1 and the ZTK

2010-12-22 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, I thought it'd be interesting to note that PyPy 1.4.1 (with JIT) now works out of the box with buildout (at least if I use the '-d' option for distribute with bootstrap.py, but I suspect plain setuptools also works). I actually added a few compatibility fixes to buildout the other

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Toolkit 1.0 release

2010-10-15 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 10/13/2010 05:57 PM, Jan-Wijbrand Kolman wrote: On behalf of the Zope Toolkit release team and the Zope community, I'm happy to announce the release of Zope Toolkit version 1.0! Congrats to the ZTK release team! Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev

Re: [Zope-dev] lxml dependency in Zope 2.12.10 KGS

2010-09-10 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, On 09/10/2010 03:04 PM, Hanno Schlichting wrote: This is unfortunate, but really a problem for the lxml community and not us. So the lxml community cannot keep up with providing binary Windows eggs. This cannot force us to stick with old and buggy versions of the software. I might

Re: [Zope-dev] docs.zope.org automation

2010-08-02 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 07/31/2010 07:22 PM, Jens Vagelpohl wrote: Here's a followup on a docs.zope.org automation task I took over during one of the Zope developer IRC metings[1]. The task was to provide individual package documentation, if it exists, directly underneath docs.zope.org, e.g.:

Re: [Zope-dev] docs.zope.org automation

2010-08-02 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 08/02/2010 05:25 PM, Jens Vagelpohl wrote: python setup.py --long-description Can someone tell me how to do that when I am in Python code already? Given the path to the checkout, can I use some setuptools/pkg_resources or pkginfo magic to get at this data? Oh, this is where I always get

Re: [Zope-dev] docs.zope.org automation

2010-08-02 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 08/02/2010 06:34 PM, Jens Vagelpohl wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 8/2/10 18:26 , Martijn Faassen wrote: http://packages.python.org/distribute/pkg_resources.html You can probably create a Distribution object somehow (handwave) from a path (whether that's

Re: [Zope-dev] Can ZTK 1.0 support Python 2.7?

2010-07-13 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 07/13/2010 02:12 PM, Hanno Schlichting wrote: Given all of these, I'm leaning towards not supporting Python 2.7 for a ZTK 1.0 release. A 1.1 can drop Python 2.4 support and we can try to support 2.7 in addition. +1 For Zope standards we'd still be very fast with supporting Python 2.7 if

Re: [Zope-dev] zope.traversing's ILocation behavior

2010-07-09 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hey, [zope.traversing absolute URL behavior] I've applied the fix to zope.traversing and added a test as well. It's released as zope.traversing. I've also updated the ZTK to use this version. (initially I used checkversions to update a few other packages too, namely zope.dublincore,

Re: [Zope-dev] Including Paste into the ZTK version list?

2010-07-09 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 07/09/2010 04:50 PM, Hanno Schlichting wrote: I noticed that all three frameworks (BB, Grok, Zope2) have version pins for Paste, PasteDeploy and PasteScript. Does anyone object to including them into the ztk-versions.cfg under dependencies? No objections from Grok. Regards, Martijn

[Zope-dev] buildout 1.5 sometime ever please?

2010-07-08 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, I've been waiting for years for a release of buildout that contains proper isolation from Python's site-packages. The non-isolation is a major flaw in buildout that makes it SO much harder to write proper installation instructions for software such as Grok. We need to wrap Grok's

Re: [Zope-dev] buildout 1.5 sometime ever please?

2010-07-08 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, I was told to ask this question on distutils-devel, which I recall is the proper list for buildout related discussions. See you there. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org

[Zope-dev] Grok 1.1 doesn't send error messages to terminal?

2010-07-08 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, It appears that Grok 1.1 doesn't send error messages to the terminal by default? This is really inconvenient and I wonder what change broke it. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org

Re: [Zope-dev] Grok 1.1 doesn't send error messages to terminal?

2010-07-08 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 07/08/2010 03:36 PM, Martijn Faassen wrote: Hi there, It appears that Grok 1.1 doesn't send error messages to the terminal by default? This is really inconvenient and I wonder what change broke it. Argh, wrong mailing list, sorry. Regards, Martijn

[Zope-dev] zope.traversing's ILocation behavior

2010-07-08 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, in zope.traversing.browser.absoluteurl there was a change a while back that breaks my code, now that I'm upgrading to it. The code in the absolute URL generation code used to be this: container = getattr(context, '__parent__', None) This simply gets the __parent__ of the

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope summit topics

2010-07-06 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 07/05/2010 08:56 PM, Sidnei da Silva wrote: On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 3:52 PM, Martijn Faassenfaas...@startifact.com wrote: (But hurry.resource is not perfect; I think it'd be better to step out of Python land and create a Javascript packaging system somewhat modeled on Python's, with easy

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope summit topics

2010-07-06 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 07/05/2010 09:32 PM, Jim Fulton wrote: On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Sidnei da Silva sidnei.da.si...@canonical.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 3:52 PM, Martijn Faassenfaas...@startifact.com wrote: (But hurry.resource is not perfect; I think it'd be better to step out of Python land

Re: [Zope-dev] Python 2.7 and the ZTK - three test failures

2010-07-06 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 07/06/2010 09:46 AM, Wichert Akkerman wrote: On 2010-7-5 23:08, Hanno Schlichting wrote: Hi there, with Python 2.7 final being released, I ran the ZTK tests against it. zope.exceptions, zope.formlib and zope.proxy all have one test output related failure. We seem to have a lot of

Re: [Zope-dev] Python 2.7 and the ZTK - three test failures

2010-07-06 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hey, On 07/06/2010 01:04 PM, Charlie Clark wrote: In the specific zope.formlib test we have a doctest embedded within another: MyForm(None, request)() # doctest: +NORMALIZE_WHITESPACE +ELLIPSIS There were errors: (u'Invalid floating point data',

Re: [Zope-dev] Python 2.7 and the ZTK - three test failures

2010-07-06 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 07/06/2010 01:27 PM, Charlie Clark wrote: Am 06.07.2010, 13:12 Uhr, schrieb Martijn Faassenfaas...@startifact.com: What do you mean, a doctest embedded within another? I'm probably missing something. No, it's probably me getting the explicit doctest call wrong. It looks to my novice eyes

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Toolkit - 1.0a1 release

2010-07-06 Thread Martijn Faassen
On 07/06/2010 05:00 PM, Tres Seaver wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Fred Drake wrote: On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Hanno Schlichtingha...@hannosch.eu wrote: On behalf of the Zope Toolkit release team and the Zope community, I'm happy to announce the first 1.0 alpha

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope summit topics

2010-07-05 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, Thanks for kicking off this discussion, here's my old grump response. :) On 06/29/2010 05:24 PM, Hanno Schlichting wrote: - Agree on a process for larger feature changes in Zope. Things like zope.publisher vs. WSGI, changes to zope.interface semantics, security without proxies, the

Re: [Zope-dev] buildbot for ZTK released packages (linux 32)

2010-05-19 Thread Martijn Faassen
Tres Seaver wrote: python 2.5 and 2.6 : - zope.app.wsgi I plan to work on fixing this failure, which is due to moving the zope.testbrowser pin from 3.8.2 to 3,9.1. How are you going to fix it? I'm asking because we depend on zope.app.wsgi for the browser testing of Grok now, at least on a

Re: [Zope-dev] buildbot for ZTK released packages (linux 32)

2010-05-19 Thread Martijn Faassen
Tres Seaver wrote: I don't know yet -- I planned to look at the failure more closely, and figure out something that would work with the newer mechanize. Just for your information, what we're doing is using wsgi_intercept, which hooks into zope.testbrowser, which uses mechanize. But I think we

Re: [Zope-dev] ZTK release team - kickoff meeting - delayed summary

2010-05-18 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hanno Schlichting wrote: - Look at Tres's list of packages in all three frameworks, decide on a way to drop things from the initial ZTK set and on a process for the future. As long as things are not dropped immediately. Even though Grok 1.2 might not need foo.bar, transition support might

Re: [Zope-dev] SVN: zopetoolkit/trunk/ztk.cfg Update to ZODB3 = 3.9.5 and include a pin for the new package providing the mkzeoinst script

2010-05-06 Thread Martijn Faassen
Tres Seaver wrote: Vincent Fretin wrote: If I followed the commits correctly, the mkzeoinst was extracted from ZODB3 package and is now in the zope.mkzeoinstance, right? Yes. I was questioning why a ZTK user, rather than somebody using an appserver like Zope2, etc., would need a

Re: [Zope-dev] SVN: zopetoolkit/trunk/ztk.cfg Update to ZODB3 = 3.9.5 and include a pin for the new package providing the mkzeoinst script

2010-05-06 Thread Martijn Faassen
Tres Seaver wrote: BlueBream or grokproject, which generate code to set up applications, might want to pull it in (or emit the depenency into the generated code). Zope2 definitely needs it. If it's sensible for all three projects to use it I think it makes sense for it to be in the ZTK. Even

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Tests: 10 OK, 4 Failed, 2 Unknown

2010-05-04 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hanno Schlichting wrote: Dropping Python 2.4 supports makes most sense to me at this stage. Zope2/Plone only support Python 2.6 for any modern version. I don't know what BlueBream and Grok want to support, but would guess they aim for Python 2.5 + 2.6 support. 2.4 is really old by now. Grok

[Zope-dev] adding the weekly irc meetings record to the ZTK docs?

2010-05-04 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, Wouldn't it be useful to add the reports of the weekly IRC meetings to the ZTK docs? This way we have an archive that includes some decisions and such that's easier to go through than the mailing list archive. It also provides a source of information that could then later be

Re: [Zope-dev] adding the weekly irc meetings record to the ZTK docs?

2010-05-04 Thread Martijn Faassen
Charlie Clark wrote: I think some kind of paper trail is definitely a good idea. Not sure if docs is the right place but Christian is planning to put the reports into the svn repository. And both location and form are less important than having an archive*. We'll have something sorted by

Re: [Zope-dev] zope.exceptiosn release has no relaese date

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Lennart Regebro wrote: I thought it was painless already, but maybe I was wrong. :) It's very nice to be able to do a full release by just typing 'fullrelease' and saying 'yes' a number of times. The tool made a convert out of me, and I know others who also were pleased by how much it sped

Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Vincent Fretin wrote: For the tool, I think I did it already. I modified one of Hanno's script some times ago: cd zopetoolkit/trunk bin/buildout -c checknew.cfg bin/python checknew.py Cool! This tool should be documented if it isn't already. Why is this in a separate .cfg unlike the other

Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hanno Schlichting wrote: Good evening :) If you have a specific issue with me, you might contact me in private. But with your follow-ups this turned into a more general issue. No, I think this needs to be public as the ZTK is a public project that I care about. And you're not playing your

Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, Hanno Schlichting wrote: I expect us to define the process around package releases and updating the ZTK. It's not entirely clear to me who should and who is allowed to update the ZTK definition. We'll figure things out and once we have I'll stick to the rules. My few cents: I

Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Wichert Akkerman wrote: Can we please not rehash an old discussion or make this personal? This has all been discussed too often already. As far as I know, I've *never* discussed this fork on this list, but I might be wrong; feel free to dig the archives. But that doesn't matter: the fork is

Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Wichert Akkerman wrote: I suggest that we wait impatiently for the ZTK steering committee to come up with a useful policy instead of trying to do their work when none of us volunteered for the task. I don't understand your suggestion. Could you rephrase it? I'm a ZTK user, and I'm

Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Martijn Faassen wrote: [snip] Why is this in a separate .cfg unlike the other tools that come with the ZTK? Unless creating this extra script is very expensive, I think it makes sense to generate it in 'bin' along with the rest of the scripts. To expand on that, it'd be nice if it were also

Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Wichert Akkerman wrote: On 5/3/10 12:51 , Martijn Faassen wrote: Wichert Akkerman wrote: Can we please not rehash an old discussion or make this personal? This has all been discussed too often already. As far as I know, I've *never* discussed this fork on this list, but I might be wrong

Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Wichert Akkerman wrote: On 5/3/10 12:52 , Martijn Faassen wrote: Wichert Akkerman wrote: I suggest that we wait impatiently for the ZTK steering committee to come up with a useful policy instead of trying to do their work when none of us volunteered for the task. I don't understand your

Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Wichert Akkerman wrote: Sorry, my mistake. I meant the ZTK release manage group, not the now defunct ZTK steering group, If it's defunct someone better update the documentation. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org

[Zope-dev] summary of suggestions

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, Because my suggestions (besides the fork issue) as a ZTK user/contributor were scattered through the thread, here's a handy summary: * please construct guidelines for updating the ZTK when making a release of a package that's managed by the ZTK project. It's useful people test

Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Lennart Regebro wrote: On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 13:22, Martijn Faassen faas...@startifact.com wrote: Wichert Akkerman wrote: Sorry, my mistake. I meant the ZTK release manage group, not the now defunct ZTK steering group, Well, if it's defunct or not is up to the members of the steering

Re: [Zope-dev] summary of suggestions

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hanno Schlichting wrote: Hi Martijn, On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Martijn Faassen faas...@startifact.com wrote: Because my suggestions (besides the fork issue) as a ZTK user/contributor were scattered through the thread, here's a handy summary: Thank you very much for your

Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Alex Clark wrote: On 2010-05-03, Wichert Akkerman wich...@wiggy.net wrote: On 5/3/10 15:41 , Martijn Faassen wrote: Lennart Regebro wrote: On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 13:22, Martijn Faassenfaas...@startifact.com wrote: Wichert Akkerman wrote: If we're going to make cheap shots: that's still

Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Lennart Regebro wrote: On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 15:41, Martijn Faassen faas...@startifact.com wrote: Well, I'm disappointed in the zope documentation process then. Work faster! :) If you don't inform people about this release manager team thingy, you can't rightly expect people like me

Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know anything about the fork, but my view of the fork is that of Hanno wants a fork, Hanno can have a fork, as long as he doesn't try to poke anyones eye out with it. If it's a stupid waste of time,

Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 7:48 PM, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 18:09, Martijn Faassen faas...@startifact.com wrote: Hanno is making releases of packages in the ZTK. So it's not just Hanno's waste of time; it's mine too. Obviously he shouldn't hurt

Re: [Zope-dev] summary of suggestions

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, Tres Seaver wrote: One issue with insta-updates to ztk.cfg is that ongoing development of a package can be in real tension with the needs of ZTK consumers for stability in the package set. Since there are no ZTK releases Grok and BlueBream gain stability by pinning to a

Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hey, Tres Seaver wrote: [snip] I expect to see Zope2 trunk move to using the ZTK versions list quite soon: more than that, I'm willing to to the work to see that it happens (verifying that everything passes / works with the change), and give Hanno the patch to make it so, assuming he doesn't

Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Charlie Clark wrote: FWIW this is a very poor strategy to win people over to your point of view. I'm not trying to win over people to my point of view. I tried that last year, but people just forked when they couldn't work it out with me. I've learned that rash actions without consideration

Re: [Zope-dev] summary of suggestions

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Lennart Regebro wrote: On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 20:13, Martijn Faassen faas...@startifact.com wrote: Since there are no ZTK releases Grok and BlueBream gain stability by pinning to a particular revision of ztk.cfg (and moving it forward when needed). Zope 2 could easily do the same. If more

Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 10:26 PM, Hanno Schlichting ha...@hannosch.eu wrote: On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Martijn Faassen faas...@startifact.com wrote: Last december Hanno made progress on the ZTK's dependency structure, removing a lot of dependencies on packages. In his

Re: [Zope-dev] summary of suggestions

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hey, Christophe Combelles wrote: Thanks for these suggestions. This is *exactly* what we (the ztk release team) need. How wonderfully diplomatic and constructive, my compliments! The release team (you, Hanno and JW) look good to me. * please let these guidelines not block most updates by

Re: [Zope-dev] summary of suggestions

2010-05-03 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi again, One more suggestion I can make is a way to get an integrated changelog for lists of packages such as the ZTK. Right now it's hard to track what kind of changes there have been in the ZTK as a whole; you have to go through all packages. If there were a way to generate a unified

[Zope-dev] zope.exceptiosn release has no relaese date

2010-05-02 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, I saw a zope.exceptions release on pypi, but it has no release date is marked in its change log: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/zope.exceptions/3.6.0 I recommend following the procedure to avoid such issues: http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/process/releasing-software.html I highly

[Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-02 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, Hanno, can you please update the zopetoolkit and do tests there as well when you make releases of packages maintained by the Zope Toolkit project? Because otherwise you're just wasting my time trying to sync things up again, and that's annoying. Not annoying me is one good reason,

Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-02 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, Of course what applies to Hanno should apply to others making releases of packages maintained by the Zope Toolkit project as well. I think the ZTK leadership should figure out some kind of guidelines for this that people can follow. Maybe someone can write a tool too to check up how

Re: [Zope-dev] Hanno, please update the ZTK

2010-05-02 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, Martijn Faassen wrote: Of course what applies to Hanno should apply to others making releases of packages maintained by the Zope Toolkit project as well. I think the ZTK leadership should figure out some kind of guidelines for this that people can follow. Maybe someone can write

Re: [Zope-dev] zope.exceptiosn release has no relaese date

2010-05-02 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, Two typos in the title, maybe I'm turning into Jim. :) Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists -

Re: [Zope-dev] pypi access to zope.browserresource, zope.browsermenu

2010-04-27 Thread Martijn Faassen
Stephan Richter wrote: On Monday 26 April 2010, Martijn Faassen wrote: Could someone give me and Hanno pypi access to zope.browserresource and zope.browsermenu? I am in the process to give you access to all the packages that I am an owner of (now that PyPI is fixed again. :-) Let me

Re: [Zope-dev] ZTK community packages

2010-04-26 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, Tres Seaver wrote: Martijn Faassen wrote: Interesting, and thanks for doing this. Concerning Grok, did you look at Grok 1.0 or Grok 1.1? Just grok/trunk (I was trying to think about the state of ZTK in terms of how it was being used by latest-and-greatest versions

[Zope-dev] pypi access to zope.browserresource, zope.browsermenu

2010-04-26 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, Could someone give me and Hanno pypi access to zope.browserresource and zope.browsermenu? Our pypi usernames are: faassen hannosch Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org

Re: [Zope-dev] ZTK community packages

2010-04-25 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hey, Interesting, and thanks for doing this. Concerning Grok, did you look at Grok 1.0 or Grok 1.1? For Grok 1.2 we've identified that the following zope.app packages are certainly used: * zope.app.wsgi * zope.app.appsetup * zope.app.publication We've eliminated the dependencies of these

Re: [Zope-dev] Summary of today's developer meeting

2010-03-02 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, Chris McDonough suggests to ponder further structuring of the ZTK into separate sub-sets which might allow us to get better mileage regarding maintenance and release management. He gave the example of the Bicycle Toolkit (zope.component, zope.configuration, zope.interface).

Re: [Zope-dev] Summary of today's developer meeting

2010-03-02 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, I've said my piece. I'm not going to argue about it. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists -

[Zope-dev] quitting the ZTK steering group

2010-01-22 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, This is to announce my withdrawal from the Zope Toolkit steering group. I withdraw from the Zope Toolkit steering group for two reasons: * The steering group is not working as a group. Most steering group members haven't been doing much steering. This left me by myself to try to

Re: [Zope-dev] New Zope 3 name: BlueBream

2010-01-05 Thread Martijn Faassen
robert rottermann wrote: [snip] all the other items bear so little market value that even an insider can not place them. Therefore I think either of the two should be part of any new packages name meant to be recognized by non Zope affectionados. Bluebream for Zope I've sometimes called

Re: [Zope-dev] shrinking the ZTK: a proposed solution

2010-01-05 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hermann Himmelbauer wrote: But I have to further state that I'm locked into Zope 3.4.0 as the support for Python 2.4 was dropped, so I can't upgrade to the current ZTK. This is a surprise to me. I thought we still supported Python 2.4 Regards, Martijn

Re: [Zope-dev] shrinking the ZTK: a proposed solution

2010-01-05 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi Tres, You don't seem to get what I kept telling you over and over. I'm therefore going to be more blunt. I don't want to use zope.app packages in Grok. Grok wants to get rid of zope.app packages. That's the very idea. We pushed this from the start. I spent a huge amount of time to make

Re: [Zope-dev] shrinking the ZTK: a proposed solution

2010-01-05 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hermann Himmelbauer wrote: Am Dienstag 05 Januar 2010 11:58:38 schrieb Martijn Faassen: Hermann Himmelbauer wrote: But I have to further state that I'm locked into Zope 3.4.0 as the support for Python 2.4 was dropped, so I can't upgrade to the current ZTK. This is a surprise to me. I thought

Re: [Zope-dev] shrinking the ZTK: a proposed solution

2010-01-05 Thread Martijn Faassen
Jens Vagelpohl wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hermann Himmelbauer wrote: Am Montag 04 Januar 2010 23:10:05 schrieb Tres Seaver: Martijn Faassen wrote: Obviously I cannot *force* ZTK maintainers to worry about this. Instead I'm appealing to your self-interest

Re: [Zope-dev] shrinking the ZTK: a proposed solution

2010-01-05 Thread Martijn Faassen
Jens Vagelpohl wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martijn Faassen wrote: Hey Tres, Tres Seaver wrote: You're kidding, right? [snip] My self-interest? Not really: you are appealing to my altruism, in the fact that I care about the *broader* Zope community (broader

Re: [Zope-dev] shrinking the ZTK: a proposed solution

2010-01-05 Thread Martijn Faassen
Martijn Faassen wrote: [snip] But I do see that Python 2.4 has a failed test, so we do need to fix that. Some of those failure appears to be because some code was switched over to the Python standard library pprint from the version in zope.testing, and in Python 2.4 that doesn't sort

Re: [Zope-dev] how to help Martijn (how can we have better discussions?)

2010-01-04 Thread Martijn Faassen
Martin Aspeli wrote: Martijn Faassen wrote: Instead, we had endless debates about whether it was a legitimate concern for the ZTK maintainers. I'm of course still right that it is. I have wonderful and coherent reasons to support my position just like everybody else does who disagrees

Re: [Zope-dev] how to help Martijn (how can we have better discussions?)

2010-01-04 Thread Martijn Faassen
Martijn Faassen wrote: [snip] So how can we have better discussions? We can have better discussions by helping me. How can you help me? Of course it helps if you agree with me. I realize that's frequently infeasible, but I certainly wouldn't mind. :) If you disagree with me, I'd like

Re: [Zope-dev] upload zope.app.exception to pypi

2010-01-04 Thread Martijn Faassen
Martijn Faassen wrote: It seems to be occurring somewhere in the setup of the test layer, but strangely enough the publisher kicks in somewhere. I'm curious why the ZTK tests didn't catch this issue (or now the zopeapp tests). Hm, the zopeapp tests are catching this today. They weren't

[Zope-dev] zope.publisher 3.12 broke 25 zope.app packages

2010-01-04 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, 25 zope.app packages are broken due to changes in zope.publisher 3.12. zope.publisher had some components factored out of it into zope.login. I fixed zope.app.exception: it could be fixed by adding the zope.login requirement and adding a zcml include statement. I suspect most,

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