Re: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3
Simon Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think it needs an image content-type ? Sorry, just my flaky link. For shame, to think such a thing. My two cents on the screenshot: - looks like good progress! - the top bar as shown definitely doesn't make best use of my precious screen space, should become a user option - for what it's worth I too spend most of my time in manage_main to avoid frames confusion - agree with Andy's point about many shades of blue - I think the black might grow on me - stating-the-obvious: a centralized stylesheet and more user preferences for all management pages would be good -Simon ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
RE: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3
Well just to be completely different to everyone else, I like the new look. The bar at the top takes up a centimeter on my 20in monitor and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I think Brain is right, People have been asking for DC to give Zope a face lift and now its got one you are all complaining about it. Don't get me wrong the points you raised are valid but you are complaining about 32 pixels. Give it a week and you won't know what you were complaining about. Overall it gets the thumbs up from me. :) -Andy (P.S. Why hasn't the acl_users folder got the same style of shaded/non-shaded rows, Just a consistancy thang :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Sent: 12 January 2001 02:12 To: Steve Alexander; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3 I think the new UI for 2.3 is great improvement over 2.2. I'm already finding the sorted tables of folder contents useful, and having the add new items select at the top saves time. However, I do not like the 3-frame interface. I feel that the top frame is wasted space. The Zope logo and "Logged in as username | Logout" could as easily go at the bottom of the tree-view frame on the left. This would leave extra screen space for doing work. I realize that I can make the frame smaller by dragging it with my mouse. I do a lot of TTW development, and I think I might find that cumbersome, so I guess I'll be hacking the top frame out of my management interface :-) Are you guys working on 486's with 13in. monitors at 640x480 or something? :^) Seriously - Zope has been criticized for a very long time for being, ah, aesthetically challenged :) It is a valid criticism - we have been (and quite honestly, will continue to be) more concerned with function over form. But is it really so bad to make a 32 pixel-high concession to a small pittance of branding? I know that "branding" isn't important for those who are already believers, but Zope has grown enough that its reasonable to put some effort into "first impression factor". It doesn't help the community for reviews to come out that waste words on the visual appeal shortcomings of the UI and totally miss the point. A better first impression is a Good Thing. The top frame is also a place where we might want to put more "placeless" operations like logout in the future. You can only jam so much into the tree pane without it looking very much like way too much is being jammed into the tree pane :) FWIW, one of the things we may put there later is a way to do "browser preferences" via cookies to control things like default text area sizes. That could also have a "hide top frame" option for those who really can't spare the 32px. :^) Brian Lloyd[EMAIL PROTECTED] Software Engineer 540.371.6909 Digital Creations www.digicool.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3
Brian Lloyd wrote: Are you guys working on 486's with 13in. monitors at 640x480 or something? :^) Well, no, but laptops aren't known for their high resolutions and that can make demonstrating zope a pain :-S Seriously - Zope has been criticized for a very long time for being, ah, aesthetically challenged :) It is a valid criticism - we have been (and quite honestly, will continue to be) more concerned with function over form. That's cool, but couldn't you hire someone just to make the thing look nice? A graphic designer or usability expert who knows what's best for all these things, rather than us, a load of developers, trying to guess ;-) But is it really so bad to make a 32 pixel-high concession to a small pittance of branding? Yes... especially when you could get the same branding without wasting a whole strip of the screen... I know that "branding" isn't important for those who are already believers, but Zope has grown enough that its reasonable to put some effort into "first impression factor". It doesn't help the community for reviews to come out that waste words on the visual appeal shortcomings of the UI and totally miss the point. A better first impression is a Good Thing. I totally agree, and that top bar really spoils it :-S For example, in Netscape, the bottom 5 pixels of the logo are chopped off when you first open the manage screens. In both IE and Netscape you get that horrible chunky frame border (is there any way you can make that go away for the horizontal split?) which wastes more space and looks nasty. The top frame is also a place where we might want to put more "placeless" operations like logout in the future. Any reason why that 'raise Unauthorized' thing couldn't have been put in? I mean it's one line, and way more useful than "Sorry, this is not yet implemented. " :-S You can only jam so much into the tree pane without it looking very much like way too much is being jammed into the tree pane :) Well, how about: [Root Folder] (square brackets mean black background) tree Refresh (having this below (c) Digital Creations makes no sense ;-) [Logged in as X] Logout other placeless operations Then put the Zope logo actually _in_ the manage tabs (in the dead space to the left of the 'Contents' tab) and hey presto, no nead for a top bar, still branded and looks nicer ;-) FWIW, one of the things we may put there later is a way to do "browser preferences" via cookies to control things like default text area sizes. This has always confused me, whats' wrong with just letting the user object be a propertymanager?! After all, the preferences you're talking about are user prefences and users will want them to follow them around, no matter what machine they're using. By implementing that, you remove the need for everyone else to resort to LoginManager any time you want to store data that is associated with a user in the user object... Right, negative comments out the way, on the whole it looks very nice and _much_ better than 2.2. Seems a lot quicker too. Really looking forward to the full release :-) cheers, Chris PS: You could always do a 'top bar' vote on www.zope.org and let everyone have their say ;-) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
RE: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3
On Thu, 11 Jan 2001, Brian Lloyd wrote: Are you guys working on 486's with 13in. monitors at 640x480 or something? :^) Let's put it this way: I have my window frame borders on my xwindows set to 1 pixel because I feel that the default (6?) pixel width wastes way too much screen realestate (I use tiled windows a lot). This is on a 17" 1024x768 monitor, and I'd probably do the same on a 20". area sizes. That could also have a "hide top frame" option for those who really can't spare the 32px. :^) shrug From my (peculiar, I'll admit) point of view, there isn't much difference between the old and new interface. I like the add dropdown being at the top, I'm indifferent to the additional item information, though the sorting looks like it might be useful, and those are about the only differences I notice. See, I use w3m and I always go to 'manage_main', so I never see the other frames or any of the "pretty" graphics Now, if the management interface were *customizable*, all these (mild) complaints would go away grin. What ever happened to the 'skinnable' project? All that said, I applaud the "management quick fixes". Thanks, guys. --RDM ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Brian Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you guys working on 486's with 13in. monitors at 640x480 or something? :^) At home I run 21" @ 1600x1280. And there's a reason I shelled out for that: I want to get lots of information on the screen. I didn't buy extra space just so you could go wasting it :^) Netscape already wastes a lot of space at the top of the window... I tend to run multiple browser windows all at the same time: one for the user's view of the application, and at least one for development. Sometimes more than one, perhaps one in the Product area for editing the zclasses and one in the mail tree for editing the app, because it's a pain to navigate back and forth between the two. Also, the laptop issue that was raised was valid. concerned with function over form. But is it really so bad to make a 32 pixel-high concession to a small pittance of branding? Yes. I know that "branding" isn't important for those who are already believers, but Zope has grown enough that its reasonable to put some effort into "first impression factor". It doesn't help the To me, this would result in a less positive first impression. Also, I really much prefered the blue tabs to the black. The black ones look much flatter. Don't get me wrong, I like what's been done with the lower part of the screen. But I hate everything above the "objecttype at path" line. And what ever happened to the Fishbowl? The only way to see way what this looks like is to download and build the alpha. That seriously limits the visibility. Also, the current fishbowl project on this is effectively negative visibility, since it contains screenshots that don't have anything to do with the actual look and feel. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3
Come on, can someone post some sample screenshots? -- Andy McKay. - Original Message - From: "Andy Dawkins" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Brian Lloyd" [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 12:39 AM Subject: RE: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3 Well just to be completely different to everyone else, I like the new look. The bar at the top takes up a centimeter on my 20in monitor and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I think Brain is right, People have been asking for DC to give Zope a face lift and now its got one you are all complaining about it. Don't get me wrong the points you raised are valid but you are complaining about 32 pixels. Give it a week and you won't know what you were complaining about. Overall it gets the thumbs up from me. :) -Andy (P.S. Why hasn't the acl_users folder got the same style of shaded/non-shaded rows, Just a consistancy thang :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Sent: 12 January 2001 02:12 To: Steve Alexander; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3 I think the new UI for 2.3 is great improvement over 2.2. I'm already finding the sorted tables of folder contents useful, and having the add new items select at the top saves time. However, I do not like the 3-frame interface. I feel that the top frame is wasted space. The Zope logo and "Logged in as username | Logout" could as easily go at the bottom of the tree-view frame on the left. This would leave extra screen space for doing work. I realize that I can make the frame smaller by dragging it with my mouse. I do a lot of TTW development, and I think I might find that cumbersome, so I guess I'll be hacking the top frame out of my management interface :-) Are you guys working on 486's with 13in. monitors at 640x480 or something? :^) Seriously - Zope has been criticized for a very long time for being, ah, aesthetically challenged :) It is a valid criticism - we have been (and quite honestly, will continue to be) more concerned with function over form. But is it really so bad to make a 32 pixel-high concession to a small pittance of branding? I know that "branding" isn't important for those who are already believers, but Zope has grown enough that its reasonable to put some effort into "first impression factor". It doesn't help the community for reviews to come out that waste words on the visual appeal shortcomings of the UI and totally miss the point. A better first impression is a Good Thing. The top frame is also a place where we might want to put more "placeless" operations like logout in the future. You can only jam so much into the tree pane without it looking very much like way too much is being jammed into the tree pane :) FWIW, one of the things we may put there later is a way to do "browser preferences" via cookies to control things like default text area sizes. That could also have a "hide top frame" option for those who really can't spare the 32px. :^) Brian Lloyd[EMAIL PROTECTED] Software Engineer 540.371.6909 Digital Creations www.digicool.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3
Andy McKay wrote: Come on, can someone post some sample screenshots? http://www.zope.org/Members/hathawsh/new_ui.png Shane -- Andy McKay. - Original Message - From: "Andy Dawkins" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Brian Lloyd" [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 12:39 AM Subject: RE: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3 Well just to be completely different to everyone else, I like the new look. The bar at the top takes up a centimeter on my 20in monitor and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I think Brain is right, People have been asking for DC to give Zope a face lift and now its got one you are all complaining about it. Don't get me wrong the points you raised are valid but you are complaining about 32 pixels. Give it a week and you won't know what you were complaining about. Overall it gets the thumbs up from me. :) -Andy (P.S. Why hasn't the acl_users folder got the same style of shaded/non-shaded rows, Just a consistancy thang :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Sent: 12 January 2001 02:12 To: Steve Alexander; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3 I think the new UI for 2.3 is great improvement over 2.2. I'm already finding the sorted tables of folder contents useful, and having the add new items select at the top saves time. However, I do not like the 3-frame interface. I feel that the top frame is wasted space. The Zope logo and "Logged in as username | Logout" could as easily go at the bottom of the tree-view frame on the left. This would leave extra screen space for doing work. I realize that I can make the frame smaller by dragging it with my mouse. I do a lot of TTW development, and I think I might find that cumbersome, so I guess I'll be hacking the top frame out of my management interface :-) Are you guys working on 486's with 13in. monitors at 640x480 or something? :^) Seriously - Zope has been criticized for a very long time for being, ah, aesthetically challenged :) It is a valid criticism - we have been (and quite honestly, will continue to be) more concerned with function over form. But is it really so bad to make a 32 pixel-high concession to a small pittance of branding? I know that "branding" isn't important for those who are already believers, but Zope has grown enough that its reasonable to put some effort into "first impression factor". It doesn't help the community for reviews to come out that waste words on the visual appeal shortcomings of the UI and totally miss the point. A better first impression is a Good Thing. The top frame is also a place where we might want to put more "placeless" operations like logout in the future. You can only jam so much into the tree pane without it looking very much like way too much is being jammed into the tree pane :) FWIW, one of the things we may put there later is a way to do "browser preferences" via cookies to control things like default text area sizes. That could also have a "hide top frame" option for those who really can't spare the 32px. :^) Brian Lloyd[EMAIL PROTECTED] Software Engineer 540.371.6909 Digital Creations www.digicool.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3
Hello, I personally don't have a problem with the new UI as far as the frames are concerned. I have not used it on a laptop, so can't express any opinions concerning such. I do prefer the blue to the black. Concerning branding, it seems to me (my opinion) that up at the top would generally be more effective. Also as the items in the tree in the left frame increases, the branding keeps getting pushed down and off. It also pushes down and off the items that Brian speaks of wanting to put into the top frame. The top frame doesn't consume much more and sometimes less than some of the toolbars the browser provide and many users use. Currently in the left frame the user id is at the top. So a certain amount of the 32 pixels consumed in the new ui are already being consumed in the left frame. What is impacted the most is the right frame. These ui elements (and branding) are important and do need placed somewhere. I would rather have them like they are instead of at the bottom left frame where there position changes according to the number of items. Just my opinion. :) A couple of UI elements I've been thinking about. I don't like the "Create public interface" checkbox automatically defaulting to creating a DTML Document. Because there are multiple items which could be used as the index_html I would like to see a dropdown box/menu which allow you to select the ui element. I think currently most will want DTML Method. In the future we might be choosing HiperDOM or XMLDocument. I think a dropdown would be nice, with a potential user selected default, which could be listed in the dropdown as "default". For people come from a traditional IDE or other types of apps it isn't necessarily intuitive to click the back button or menu item in order to exit a screen that you entered but changed your mind about and are doing nothing. Yes, I understand most of us here understand that no transaction has taken place and simply going "back" or clicking on another link is okay. However, for the non-programmer content-provider user of Zope a "cancel" button which goes back might be a nice ui element. Just some thoughts. Jimmie Houchin ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3
Brian Lloyd wrote: make a 32 pixel-high concession to a small pittance of branding? The top frame is also a place where we might want to put more "placeless" operations like logout in the future. You can only jam so much into the tree pane without it looking very much like way too much is being jammed into the tree pane :) I think that the top pane contents should be put into the top of the tree pane. In either case, you are pushing the tree pane contents down 32 px, but by putting the logo et al in the tree frame, you will at least not be sacrificing the top 32 px of the main frame. As far as the 'branding' issue is concerned, I do not begrudge DC and Zope the recognition they deserve, as long as it doesn't get in the users way. As an alternative to placing the 'branding' and 'placeless' content into the tree frame directly, you might consider splitting the tree frame instead. This would keep the logo visible, but would no longer take up screen real estate from the main frame. Does DC do any usability testing on proposed UI changes? HTH, Michael Bernstein. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Andy McKay wrote: Come on, can someone post some sample screenshots? http://www.zope.org/Members/hathawsh/new_ui.png I hate the brand at the top. Put it at the bottom where it can disappear and not take up space. Can we have ownership information as well? How about switching to a more sensible permissions scheme; then we could have rwxr--r-- etc. I also would have to worry about the correct settings of 'Add Mydongle', 'View MyDongle' etc. How can the administrator keep up with the multiplicity of such things. I have more than a page full of such permissions most of which I don't understand. And will we get any better information on what causes all those permissioning failures. Telling us what causes our slightly modified product/Zclass to go down the pan and take the data with it would also be nice. -- Robin Becker ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
RE: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3
Brian Lloyd writes: ... But is it really so bad to make a 32 pixel-high concession to a small pittance of branding? I can spare 32 pixels in height, but the current 32 pixels are worthless for me as I cannot read what is there. I do not know at what design schools one learns that black letters on dark blue background is a good thing. It seems to be quite widespread, as I see this quite often. Please keep in mind that colors do not look equal everywhere. My colors are usually dimmed as my eyes start burning when I have to look into bright light for a longer time (Zope's management screens are very difficult for me as they use bright white as background. I already looked whether I could change it, but unfortunately, the color is coded individually in each file. What about using a central style sheet instead?). Therefore, what might look good at your screen, is unrecognizable on mine (and probably others). Furthermore, you lost brand by placing the blue Zope button onto the blue stripe. You can now only guess, what is should be. While contrast is very high at most places in the new design, it is far too low in this place. Dieter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3
My 2 cents and thanks to people for letting me have a look! -There are too many conflicting shades of blue - blue links on blue background, black text on blue background, blue underlines on tabs and so on. - you guys like blue eh? -I dont mind the idea of the bar at the top, branding is fine -I do mind the idea that is 32 pixels in height being unused. stick the copyright, refresh options, time of day up there, if the space is being used more effectively, people wont mind as much. There's a ton of stuff you could put up there and still view on a laptop.. -No chance of getting no case sensitive object listing (or at least having it as an option?) -the select/deselect all is great but changing the button is generally considering confusing.. -- Andy McKay. - Original Message - From: "Dieter Maurer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Brian Lloyd" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 12:37 PM Subject: RE: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3 Brian Lloyd writes: ... But is it really so bad to make a 32 pixel-high concession to a small pittance of branding? I can spare 32 pixels in height, but the current 32 pixels are worthless for me as I cannot read what is there. I do not know at what design schools one learns that black letters on dark blue background is a good thing. It seems to be quite widespread, as I see this quite often. Please keep in mind that colors do not look equal everywhere. My colors are usually dimmed as my eyes start burning when I have to look into bright light for a longer time (Zope's management screens are very difficult for me as they use bright white as background. I already looked whether I could change it, but unfortunately, the color is coded individually in each file. What about using a central style sheet instead?). Therefore, what might look good at your screen, is unrecognizable on mine (and probably others). Furthermore, you lost brand by placing the blue Zope button onto the blue stripe. You can now only guess, what is should be. While contrast is very high at most places in the new design, it is far too low in this place. Dieter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3
Steve Alexander wrote: However, I do not like the 3-frame interface. I feel that the top frame is wasted space. The Zope logo and "Logged in as username | Logout" could as easily go at the bottom of the tree-view frame on the left. I haven't seen this yet, but I have to agree. Two frames is bad enough btu addign another one with all the wasted border space, etc, sounds like a bad idea... This would leave extra screen space for doing work. ...which is always a good thing I realize that I can make the frame smaller by dragging it with my mouse. Yeah, and that's going to get even more annoying than constantly having to widen the edit box every time you access the same Zope instance through a different domain name :-( so I guess I'll be hacking the top frame out of my management interface :-) Can you post a patch if you do? ;-) I also much prefer blue to black as a background colour for the tabs and the "Root Folder" link. The black seems a bit overbearing. ...I'd agree too... cheers, Chris ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3
I haven't seen this yet, but I have to agree. Two frames is bad enough btu addign another one with all the wasted border space, etc, sounds like a bad idea... This would leave extra screen space for doing work. Hear, hear, could anyone post some screenshots? -- Andy McKay ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
RE: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3
I think the new UI for 2.3 is great improvement over 2.2. I'm already finding the sorted tables of folder contents useful, and having the add new items select at the top saves time. However, I do not like the 3-frame interface. I feel that the top frame is wasted space. The Zope logo and "Logged in as username | Logout" could as easily go at the bottom of the tree-view frame on the left. This would leave extra screen space for doing work. I realize that I can make the frame smaller by dragging it with my mouse. I do a lot of TTW development, and I think I might find that cumbersome, so I guess I'll be hacking the top frame out of my management interface :-) Are you guys working on 486's with 13in. monitors at 640x480 or something? :^) Seriously - Zope has been criticized for a very long time for being, ah, aesthetically challenged :) It is a valid criticism - we have been (and quite honestly, will continue to be) more concerned with function over form. But is it really so bad to make a 32 pixel-high concession to a small pittance of branding? I know that "branding" isn't important for those who are already believers, but Zope has grown enough that its reasonable to put some effort into "first impression factor". It doesn't help the community for reviews to come out that waste words on the visual appeal shortcomings of the UI and totally miss the point. A better first impression is a Good Thing. The top frame is also a place where we might want to put more "placeless" operations like logout in the future. You can only jam so much into the tree pane without it looking very much like way too much is being jammed into the tree pane :) FWIW, one of the things we may put there later is a way to do "browser preferences" via cookies to control things like default text area sizes. That could also have a "hide top frame" option for those who really can't spare the 32px. :^) Brian Lloyd[EMAIL PROTECTED] Software Engineer 540.371.6909 Digital Creations www.digicool.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
RE: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3
I agree that it looks better. The addition of another whole frame for this though is my main beef with it. Perhaps this could be integrated some other way. Frames should only be added when there is no other option. It's just that browsers waste so much space up there anyway, and the extra 32 pixels are in addition to that "waste". I personally don't care how it "looks" so much as how efficient it is. All of the other aethestic changes I feel enhance both looks and efficiency. The top frame does not IMHO. Form should definitely follow function here. BTW: I have been know to use Zope on an old machine with a 640X480 screen. Although I generally eschew the frames altogether then and open manage_main by itself. It's not really fun, but it works. --- Brian Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you guys working on 486's with 13in. monitors at 640x480 or something? :^) Seriously - Zope has been criticized for a very long time for being, ah, aesthetically challenged :) It is a valid criticism - we have been (and quite honestly, will continue to be) more concerned with function over form. But is it really so bad to make a 32 pixel-high concession to a small pittance of branding? I know that "branding" isn't important for those who are already believers, but Zope has grown enough that its reasonable to put some effort into "first impression factor". It doesn't help the community for reviews to come out that waste words on the visual appeal shortcomings of the UI and totally miss the point. A better first impression is a Good Thing. The top frame is also a place where we might want to put more "placeless" operations like logout in the future. You can only jam so much into the tree pane without it looking very much like way too much is being jammed into the tree pane :) FWIW, one of the things we may put there later is a way to do "browser preferences" via cookies to control things like default text area sizes. That could also have a "hide top frame" option for those who really can't spare the 32px. :^) = | Casey Duncan | Kaivo, Inc. | [EMAIL PROTECTED] `- __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3
Brian, Good answer, I for one would like to add a vote for the new UI. +1 Phil [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, 11 Jan 2001, Brian Lloyd wrote: I think the new UI for 2.3 is great improvement over 2.2. I'm already finding the sorted tables of folder contents useful, and having the add new items select at the top saves time. However, I do not like the 3-frame interface. I feel that the top frame is wasted space. The Zope logo and "Logged in as username | Logout" | could as easily go at the bottom of the tree-view frame on the left. This would leave extra screen space for doing work. I realize that I can make the frame smaller by dragging it with my mouse. I do a lot of TTW development, and I think I might find that cumbersome, so I guess I'll be hacking the top frame out of my management interface :-) Are you guys working on 486's with 13in. monitors at 640x480 or something? :^) Seriously - Zope has been criticized for a very long time for being, ah, aesthetically challenged :) It is a valid criticism - we have been (and quite honestly, will continue to be) more concerned with function over form. But is it really so bad to make a 32 pixel-high concession to a small pittance of branding? I know that "branding" isn't important for those who are already believers, but Zope has grown enough that its reasonable to put some effort into "first impression factor". It doesn't help the community for reviews to come out that waste words on the visual appeal shortcomings of the UI and totally miss the point. A better first impression is a Good Thing. The top frame is also a place where we might want to put more "placeless" operations like logout in the future. You can only jam so much into the tree pane without it looking very much like way too much is being jammed into the tree pane :) FWIW, one of the things we may put there later is a way to do "browser preferences" via cookies to control things like default text area sizes. That could also have a "hide top frame" option for those who really can't spare the 32px. :^) Brian Lloyd[EMAIL PROTECTED] Software Engineer 540.371.6909 Digital Creations www.digicool.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3
I think the new UI for 2.3 is great improvement over 2.2. I'm already finding the sorted tables of folder contents useful, and having the add new items select at the top saves time. However, I do not like the 3-frame interface. I feel that the top frame is wasted space. The Zope logo and "Logged in as username | Logout" could as easily go at the bottom of the tree-view frame on the left. This would leave extra screen space for doing work. I realize that I can make the frame smaller by dragging it with my mouse. I do a lot of TTW development, and I think I might find that cumbersome, so I guess I'll be hacking the top frame out of my management interface :-) I also much prefer blue to black as a background colour for the tabs and the "Root Folder" link. The black seems a bit overbearing. -- Steve Alexander Software Engineer Cat-Box limited http://www.cat-box.net ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3
--- Steve Alexander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, I do not like the 3-frame interface. I feel that the top frame is wasted space. The Zope logo and "Logged in as username | Logout" could as easily go at the bottom of the tree-view frame on the left. This would leave extra screen space for doing work. I agree 100%. please change this! I like the look of it, but it serves little purpose for the space it uses. I also much prefer blue to black as a background colour for the tabs and the "Root Folder" link. The black seems a bit overbearing. I agree here as well. Why does the root folder need to look different anyway? Just labelling it "Root Folder" is sufficient IMHO. I think it will cause confusion for it to look so different. = | Casey Duncan | Kaivo, Inc. | [EMAIL PROTECTED] `- __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3
Steve Alexander wrote: I think the new UI for 2.3 is great improvement over 2.2. I'm already finding the sorted tables of folder contents useful, and having the add new items select at the top saves time. However, I do not like the 3-frame interface. I feel that the top frame is wasted space. The Zope logo and "Logged in as username | Logout" could as easily go at the bottom of the tree-view frame on the left. This would leave extra screen space for doing work. I also much prefer blue to black as a background colour for the tabs and the "Root Folder" link. The black seems a bit overbearing. Hmm. I haven't checked out the new interface myself yet, but I wonder if DC did any usability testing on their new UI? Cheers, Michael Bernstein. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
