Re: [Zope-dev] Reminder: feature freeze November 1.
On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 02:55:22PM -0500, Chris McDonough wrote: Of course the release manager should have the last say and as the release manager it's totally valid for Andreas to delete the branch. Apologies for taking initiative. I was really just trying to unstick Paul and get things rolling again. Thanks Chris, I didn't mean for you to get you in hot water. And thanks Jim for directly answering my question, which is really all I needed :) -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Reminder: feature freeze November 1.
Paul Winkler wrote: On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 07:21:08AM -0400, Jim Fulton wrote: This is a reminder that there will be a feature freeze for the December Zope releases on November 1. OK. I thought there was going to be a 2.9 branch by now, but I don't see one. Is the trunk totally frozen now or what? Yes, no new features. Is it too late to land my long-forgotten configure changes as discussed at http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope/2004-July/151839.html ? Yes The sooner we're ready for the first beta, the sooner we can make the beta and the branch. We need more volunteers to help with fixing bugs. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Reminder: feature freeze November 1.
Chris McDonough wrote: I suspect there's just some miscommunication about who is actually supposed to make the branch. I have just gone ahead and made it. But yes, now that there is one, the 2.9 branch is frozen for features. I wish you hadn't done that. We shouldn't be making the branch until we get to beta. We can't get to beta until a lot more bugs are fixed. Everyone likes to work on new features, but we need to get bug fixed to actually make releases. I'm worried that we aren't going to make the time-based release schedule. The only leverage I can see is feature freezes. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Reminder: feature freeze November 1.
On Sunday 13 November 2005 10:48, Jim Fulton wrote: Chris McDonough wrote: I suspect there's just some miscommunication about who is actually supposed to make the branch. I have just gone ahead and made it. But yes, now that there is one, the 2.9 branch is frozen for features. I wish you hadn't done that. We shouldn't be making the branch until we get to beta. We can't get to beta until a lot more bugs are fixed. Everyone likes to work on new features, but we need to get bug fixed to actually make releases. I'm worried that we aren't going to make the time-based release schedule. The only leverage I can see is feature freezes. Jim, I am really glad you wrote this comment. I was going to write a similar E-mail, but thought it would be out of line for me, since I am not involved in the Zope 2 development. If someone would have done that with Zope 3, I would have been pretty annoyed. Thus for Zope 3, if someone creates a release branch without discussing it with me first, then that person automatically becomes the release manager for that release. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Reminder: feature freeze November 1.
Stephan Richter wrote: On Sunday 13 November 2005 10:48, Jim Fulton wrote: Chris McDonough wrote: I suspect there's just some miscommunication about who is actually supposed to make the branch. I have just gone ahead and made it. But yes, now that there is one, the 2.9 branch is frozen for features. I wish you hadn't done that. We shouldn't be making the branch until we get to beta. We can't get to beta until a lot more bugs are fixed. Everyone likes to work on new features, but we need to get bug fixed to actually make releases. I'm worried that we aren't going to make the time-based release schedule. The only leverage I can see is feature freezes. Jim, I am really glad you wrote this comment. I was going to write a similar E-mail, but thought it would be out of line for me, since I am not involved in the Zope 2 development. If someone would have done that with Zope 3, I would have been pretty annoyed. Thus for Zope 3, if someone creates a release branch without discussing it with me first, then that person automatically becomes the release manager for that release. Yup. BTW, I'm sure Chris meant well. Chris, I appreciate that you were trying to help. I still wish you hadn't made the branch. :) Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Reminder: feature freeze November 1.
--On 13. November 2005 11:26:44 -0500 Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chris, I appreciate that you were trying to help. I still wish you hadn't made the branch. :) svn delete should solve that problem :-) -aj pgpwMOGS2dLXV.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Reminder: feature freeze November 1.
On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 11:26 -0500, Jim Fulton wrote: Stephan Richter wrote: On Sunday 13 November 2005 10:48, Jim Fulton wrote: Chris McDonough wrote: I suspect there's just some miscommunication about who is actually supposed to make the branch. I have just gone ahead and made it. But yes, now that there is one, the 2.9 branch is frozen for features. I wish you hadn't done that. We shouldn't be making the branch until we get to beta. We can't get to beta until a lot more bugs are fixed. Everyone likes to work on new features, but we need to get bug fixed to actually make releases. I'm worried that we aren't going to make the time-based release schedule. The only leverage I can see is feature freezes. Jim, I am really glad you wrote this comment. I was going to write a similar E-mail, but thought it would be out of line for me, since I am not involved in the Zope 2 development. If someone would have done that with Zope 3, I would have been pretty annoyed. Thus for Zope 3, if someone creates a release branch without discussing it with me first, then that person automatically becomes the release manager for that release. Yup. BTW, I'm sure Chris meant well. Chris, I appreciate that you were trying to help. I still wish you hadn't made the branch. :) Yes, I predicted I'd be punished. ;-) I don't understand why you would want to wait to make a release branch until a beta. What is the rationale? - C ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Reminder: feature freeze November 1.
On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 17:32 +0100, Andreas Jung wrote: --On 13. November 2005 11:26:44 -0500 Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chris, I appreciate that you were trying to help. I still wish you hadn't made the branch. :) svn delete should solve that problem :-) Of course the release manager should have the last say and as the release manager it's totally valid for Andreas to delete the branch. Apologies for taking initiative. I was really just trying to unstick Paul and get things rolling again. But I'd like to understand the rationale for not branching at the time if the feature freeze (Nov 1). Is it just to avoid the work of merging changes from the branch back the HEAD during the period between the freeze and the beta? Doesn't svn make this pretty easy? And what is the maximum amount of time between freeze and beta that we'd consider reasonable? Also, it sounds as if there's an argument being made that *everyone* should pitch in to get 2.9 beta out the door *instead* of committing Zope 2 feature work and the delayed branching is the manifestation of legislation that aims to make this happen. I'm not sure it's healthy to legislate this. There are people who have no burning desire to see a 2.9 go out the door within the next few weeks, but OTOH they are very willing to commit some valuable feature work right now for an eventual 2.10 release and due to the freeze, they haven't done so (and may never do so if not now, given the volunteer-ness of their efforts). How can we accomodate those people in the future? IMO, we should try not to discourage contribution and so we should branch regardless of the state of the trunk within, say, two weeks of freeze. Does that sound reasonable for future releases? - C ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Reminder: feature freeze November 1.
--On 13. November 2005 14:55:22 -0500 Chris McDonough [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But I'd like to understand the rationale for not branching at the time if the feature freeze (Nov 1). Is it just to avoid the work of merging changes from the branch back the HEAD during the period between the freeze and the beta? Doesn't svn make this pretty easy? And what is the maximum amount of time between freeze and beta that we'd consider reasonable? I think all people involved in 2.9 should get their contributions right on the trunk. Then we can branch. Fixing stuff on multiple branches is a pain. You could create a temporary branch for your stuff and merge it back into the HEAD when the 2.9 branch. I think Jim came up with idea to develop new features on a branch. Branches aka new features should be merged into the HEAD if they are considered to be stable. The reason for this approach but be to have the HEAD in a reasonable stable state and to be able to cut a release branch at any time. Andreas pgpRF1znVUWZF.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Reminder: feature freeze November 1.
On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 21:07 +0100, Andreas Jung wrote: Branches aka new features should be merged into the HEAD if they are considered to be stable. The reason for this approach but be to have the HEAD in a reasonable stable state and to be able to cut a release branch at any time. Yup. That's exactly what appears to not be happening at the moment, so I'm confused. The critical issues that are listed in the collector are bugs and not problems created by feature creep. Do those sorts of issues prevent a branch from being made? Or are there other issues that aren't in the collector that are preventing a branch from being made? - C ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Reminder: feature freeze November 1.
On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 12:38 -0500, Chris McDonough wrote: On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 11:26 -0500, Jim Fulton wrote: Stephan Richter wrote: On Sunday 13 November 2005 10:48, Jim Fulton wrote: Chris McDonough wrote: I suspect there's just some miscommunication about who is actually supposed to make the branch. I have just gone ahead and made it. But yes, now that there is one, the 2.9 branch is frozen for features. I wish you hadn't done that. We shouldn't be making the branch until we get to beta. We can't get to beta until a lot more bugs are fixed. Everyone likes to work on new features, but we need to get bug fixed to actually make releases. I'm worried that we aren't going to make the time-based release schedule. The only leverage I can see is feature freezes. Jim, I am really glad you wrote this comment. I was going to write a similar E-mail, but thought it would be out of line for me, since I am not involved in the Zope 2 development. If someone would have done that with Zope 3, I would have been pretty annoyed. Thus for Zope 3, if someone creates a release branch without discussing it with me first, then that person automatically becomes the release manager for that release. Yup. BTW, I'm sure Chris meant well. Chris, I appreciate that you were trying to help. I still wish you hadn't made the branch. :) Yes, I predicted I'd be punished. ;-) I don't understand why you would want to wait to make a release branch until a beta. What is the rationale? Reread my posts. Jim ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Reminder: feature freeze November 1.
On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 15:20 -0500, Chris McDonough wrote: On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 21:07 +0100, Andreas Jung wrote: Branches aka new features should be merged into the HEAD if they are considered to be stable. The reason for this approach but be to have the HEAD in a reasonable stable state and to be able to cut a release branch at any time. Yup. That's exactly what appears to not be happening at the moment, so I'm confused. The critical issues that are listed in the collector are bugs and not problems created by feature creep. Do those sorts of issues prevent a branch from being made? Or are there other issues that aren't in the collector that are preventing a branch from being made? I don't know if those bugs should prevent a beta or not. But there needs to be some criteria other than feature completeness. Is Zope 2 really in good shape? Or do people just not care? Jim ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Reminder: feature freeze November 1.
On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 14:55 -0500, Chris McDonough wrote: On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 17:32 +0100, Andreas Jung wrote: ... Also, it sounds as if there's an argument being made that *everyone* should pitch in to get 2.9 beta out the door *instead* of committing Zope 2 feature work and the delayed branching is the manifestation of legislation that aims to make this happen. Yup. You figured it out. I'm not sure it's healthy to legislate this. I'm not sure either, but we have to try something. There are people who have no burning desire to see a 2.9 go out the door within the next few weeks, but OTOH they are very willing to commit some valuable feature work right now for an eventual 2.10 release and due to the freeze, they haven't done so (and may never do so if not now, given the volunteer-ness of their efforts). OK, then there will be less for the people who are willing to fix bugs to work on later. How can we accomodate those people in the future? They can always work on a development branch. IMO, we should try not to discourage contribution and so we should branch regardless of the state of the trunk within, say, two weeks of freeze. Does that sound reasonable for future releases? Not to me. Jim ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Reminder: feature freeze November 1.
On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 16:42 -0500, Jim Fulton wrote: I don't know if those bugs should prevent a beta or not. But there needs to be some criteria other than feature completeness. To create the branch or a beta release? I realize there's a desire to tie these acts together but still don't fully understand the rationale for that after rereading your posts as you suggested. I don't want to belabor the point, though, so just call pope at any time and I'll stop, at least for today. ;-) Is Zope 2 really in good shape? Or do people just not care? Maybe both? ;-) I'm currently investigating #1685, so that should be resolved one way or another today. There is one other public bug that doesn't appear to be a showstopper. There are some private bugs too that I haven't looked at. I just noticed Phil's post on the zope3 list where he enumerates what needs to be done for Five/zpkg. None of that is in the collector. There is a Wiki at http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/Zope2.9/FrontPage . It doesn't have much info in it. I've made it accessible via http://www.zope.org/DevHome/Projects/ now so maybe those who have things to finish up can enumerate what needs to be done there before a beta can be released. - C ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Reminder: feature freeze November 1.
On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 17:07 -0500, Chris McDonough wrote: On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 16:42 -0500, Jim Fulton wrote: I don't know if those bugs should prevent a beta or not. But there needs to be some criteria other than feature completeness. To create the branch or a beta release? I realize there's a desire to tie these acts together but still don't fully understand the rationale for that after rereading your posts as you suggested. I don't want to belabor the point, though, so just call pope at any time and I'll stop, at least for today. ;-) Ignore this. You called pope in another message. - C ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Reminder: feature freeze November 1.
On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 07:21:08AM -0400, Jim Fulton wrote: This is a reminder that there will be a feature freeze for the December Zope releases on November 1. OK. I thought there was going to be a 2.9 branch by now, but I don't see one. Is the trunk totally frozen now or what? Is it too late to land my long-forgotten configure changes as discussed at http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope/2004-July/151839.html ? This would allow multiple preferred versions of Python when a bugfix release of python comes out - so we don't do something silly like advise people to downgrade from a perfectly good 2.4.x to 2.4.(x-1). I negligently never merged my branch, forgot about it, and only remembered it when Florent nudged us to clean up old branches. I have a local zope 2 trunk sandbox with my changes hand-merged into configure, but my branch is so ancient that I think I should delete it and start over. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Reminder: feature freeze November 1.
I suspect there's just some miscommunication about who is actually supposed to make the branch. I have just gone ahead and made it. But yes, now that there is one, the 2.9 branch is frozen for features. - C On Sat, 2005-11-12 at 14:56 -0500, Paul Winkler wrote: On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 07:21:08AM -0400, Jim Fulton wrote: This is a reminder that there will be a feature freeze for the December Zope releases on November 1. OK. I thought there was going to be a 2.9 branch by now, but I don't see one. Is the trunk totally frozen now or what? Is it too late to land my long-forgotten configure changes as discussed at http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope/2004-July/151839.html ? This would allow multiple preferred versions of Python when a bugfix release of python comes out - so we don't do something silly like advise people to downgrade from a perfectly good 2.4.x to 2.4.(x-1). I negligently never merged my branch, forgot about it, and only remembered it when Florent nudged us to clean up old branches. I have a local zope 2 trunk sandbox with my changes hand-merged into configure, but my branch is so ancient that I think I should delete it and start over. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Reminder: feature freeze November 1.
Yep, it's a free-for-all again. ;-) Although probably it's better to create a branch and get some consensus before merging it as opposed to landing stuff directly on the trunk. On Sat, 2005-11-12 at 22:14 -0500, Paul Winkler wrote: On Sat, Nov 12, 2005 at 09:59:45PM -0500, Chris McDonough wrote: I suspect there's just some miscommunication about who is actually supposed to make the branch. I have just gone ahead and made it. But yes, now that there is one, the 2.9 branch is frozen for features. Which means I can now land stuff on the trunk again? :-) -PW ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Reminder: feature freeze November 1.
--On 12. November 2005 14:56:45 -0500 Paul Winkler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 07:21:08AM -0400, Jim Fulton wrote: This is a reminder that there will be a feature freeze for the December Zope releases on November 1. OK. I thought there was going to be a 2.9 branch by now, but I don't see one. Is the trunk totally frozen now or what? The reason why there is no 2.9 branch available is just because Jim, Stephan and I agreed to create branches at the time of the 2.9 and 3.2 b1 releases. However there is/was some more work to do so the branch did not exist yet. Andreas pgpRR9emcbcPm.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Reminder: feature freeze November 1.
This is a reminder that there will be a feature freeze for the December Zope releases on November 1. No new features for the November releases should be added after October 31. The Zope trunks should be stable and ready for a beta release on November 1. We are committed to time-based releases. This means we need to be very disciplined about deadlines. If a cool new feature isn't quite ready before November 1, then it could be be included in the June release, for which the feature freeze will be May 1. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
