Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-04-08 Thread Wichert Akkerman
Previously Chris Withers wrote: Wichert Akkerman wrote: What we do is: collect the tarballs, serve the resulting directory. I have not seen a need to run a script. How do you collect the tarballs? buildout download cache How do you serve the resulting directory? standard apache

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-04-08 Thread Chris Withers
Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously Chris Withers wrote: Tres Seaver wrote: KGS the concept is very easy to implement; you just make available on some URL a buildout versions.cfg, or you run your own package index. OK, the former I can see happening on an end-user project, the latter is

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-04-08 Thread Tres Seaver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chris Withers wrote: Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously Chris Withers wrote: Tres Seaver wrote: KGS the concept is very easy to implement; you just make available on some URL a buildout versions.cfg, or you run your own package index. OK,

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-04-06 Thread Wichert Akkerman
Previously Chris Withers wrote: Tres Seaver wrote: KGS the concept is very easy to implement; you just make available on some URL a buildout versions.cfg, or you run your own package index. OK, the former I can see happening on an end-user project, the latter is just too much work.

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-04-06 Thread Tres Seaver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously Chris Withers wrote: Tres Seaver wrote: KGS the concept is very easy to implement; you just make available on some URL a buildout versions.cfg, or you run your own package index. OK, the former I can see

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-04-06 Thread Wichert Akkerman
Previously Tres Seaver wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously Chris Withers wrote: Tres Seaver wrote: KGS the concept is very easy to implement; you just make available on some URL a buildout versions.cfg, or you run your own

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-04-06 Thread Tres Seaver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously Tres Seaver wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously Chris Withers wrote: Tres Seaver wrote: KGS the concept is very easy to implement; you just make available

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-04-05 Thread Dieter Maurer
Chris Withers wrote at 2009-4-2 20:42 +0100: ... KGS the concept is very easy to implement; you just make available on some URL a buildout versions.cfg, or you run your own package index. OK, the former I can see happening on an end-user project, the latter is just too much work. Tres has

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-04-05 Thread Tres Seaver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dieter Maurer wrote: Chris Withers wrote at 2009-4-2 20:42 +0100: ... KGS the concept is very easy to implement; you just make available on some URL a buildout versions.cfg, or you run your own package index. OK, the former I can see happening

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-04-02 Thread Chris Withers
Wichert Akkerman wrote: Are there other Python projects that have to deal with such a huge amount of packages and dependencies? I don't know any similar project. So the solution must come from the Zope world (which does not mean that we participate in the packaging toolchain development as

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-04-02 Thread Chris Withers
Roger Ineichen wrote: Probably a way to go is to make both concept compatible with each other. Which probably means we should be able to ignore versions in packages if a KGS concept get used? (not sure if this is possible) NO! This is INSANE! The version requirements in a package should be

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-04-02 Thread Chris Withers
Martijn Faassen wrote: KGS is two things: * KGS the software * KGS the concept KGS the concept will have a life outside of the Zope world. I stand by my predication that even the KGS concept will never make it beyond Zope... KGS the concept is very easy to implement; you just make

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-25 Thread Martijn Faassen
Stephan Richter wrote: On Tuesday 17 March 2009, Shane Hathaway wrote: The version requirements in setup.py should specify only API compatibility. They have nothing to do with bug fixes; that's the domain of the KGS. How about an example. Yes, that's a good summary of what we agreed on.

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-25 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hey, Wichert Akkerman wrote: [snip] This is an important point. As I see it the KGS is a Zope-only thing, and is just a workaround for the mindless behaviour of setuptools. I do not see it gaining acceptance outside of the Zope community, and imho effort is better spent on improving the

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-23 Thread Chris Withers
Martijn Faassen wrote: The version requirements in setup.py should always be open. The most widely open requirement is this: zope.foo but another open requirement is this: zope.foo = 1.3 I also don't recall open requirements bringing development to a halt? I think more specific

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-23 Thread Chris Withers
Benji York wrote: Lets say that someone adds two bug fixes to zope.foo (call them fix A and fix B) and then does a release. Fix A requires zope.bar = 1.5 and fix B doesn't. If I want to benefit from fix B in my app (and don't use the feature fix A repaired), then I shouldn't be forced to

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-23 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote: Updgrading to zope.foo 1.3.x might not be easy for various reasons that I think most of us experienced (I know I did). Releasing a new zope.bar version might not be possible, if person B does not have access. If a fix is possible, and someone backports it, a release

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-23 Thread Chris Withers
Roger Ineichen wrote: The consequence of fixing versions is to skip backporting. There is no way to have both. Rubbish. Martijn already showed what would need to happen here: the package specifying the depenedency needs a quick, 3rd point release to add the backported releases as suitable.

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-23 Thread Chris Withers
Wichert Akkerman wrote: I see no useful different between x.y and x.y.z here. All I want is if someone installs one of our packages that package will work as expected. If a package will only work with a certain revisions of a dependent package it has to state say. Yes. If we do not do that

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-23 Thread Chris Withers
Martijn Faassen wrote: x.y.z is a bugfix release. If we do it right, there will be no change in the API and only small changes in misbehavior. Therefore it seems far less likely to me that a package ends *needing* to depend on a minimum version. I don't agree. If your package hsa bugs

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-23 Thread Chris Withers
Roger Ineichen wrote: What do you do if version x.y works with d.e.d but not with d.e.e (because it's borken) and fixed in d.e.f. You release x.y.1 which has dependencies on d.e.d, =d.e.f. This is a use case where fixing versions in packages doesn't work Sure it does. This is the benefit

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-23 Thread Wichert Akkerman
Previously Chris Withers wrote: Benji York wrote: Lets say that someone adds two bug fixes to zope.foo (call them fix A and fix B) and then does a release. Fix A requires zope.bar = 1.5 and fix B doesn't. If I want to benefit from fix B in my app (and don't use the feature fix A

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-23 Thread Andreas Jung
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 23.03.2009 14:26 Uhr, Wichert Akkerman wrote: This is an important point. As I see it the KGS is a Zope-only thing, and is just a workaround for the mindless behaviour of setuptools. I do not see it gaining acceptance outside of the Zope

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-23 Thread Wichert Akkerman
Previously Andreas Jung wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 23.03.2009 14:26 Uhr, Wichert Akkerman wrote: This is an important point. As I see it the KGS is a Zope-only thing, and is just a workaround for the mindless behaviour of setuptools. I do not see it

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-23 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi Wichert Betreff: Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py Previously Andreas Jung wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 23.03.2009 14:26 Uhr, Wichert Akkerman wrote: This is an important point. As I see it the KGS is a Zope-only

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-17 Thread Wichert Akkerman
Previously Jacob Holm wrote: Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously Martijn Faassen wrote: Hey, Stephan Richter wrote: [snip] There is a compromise I am willing to take. If package zope.bar depends on a *new feature* or *feature change* in zope.foo 1.3.x, then it should

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-17 Thread Martijn Faassen
Wichert Akkerman wrote: [snip] I see no useful different between x.y and x.y.z here. All I want is if someone installs one of our packages that package will work as expected. If a package will only work with a certain revisions of a dependent package it has to state say. I do see a useful

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-17 Thread Wichert Akkerman
Previously Martijn Faassen wrote: Wichert Akkerman wrote: [snip] I see no useful different between x.y and x.y.z here. All I want is if someone installs one of our packages that package will work as expected. If a package will only work with a certain revisions of a dependent package it

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-17 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi Wichert, Steering Group? Betreff: Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py Previously Martijn Faassen wrote: Wichert Akkerman wrote: [snip] I see no useful different between x.y and x.y.z here. All I want is if someone installs one of our packages

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-17 Thread Shane Hathaway
Roger Ineichen wrote: What do you do if version x.y works with d.e.d but not with d.e.e (because it's borken) and fixed in d.e.f. This means you could use d.e.d or d.e.f. but not d.e.e What's your solution then? Fix the version to d.e.d or d.e.f or skip fixing versions? The version

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-17 Thread Stephan Richter
On Tuesday 17 March 2009, Shane Hathaway wrote: The version requirements in setup.py should specify only API compatibility.  They have nothing to do with bug fixes; that's the domain of the KGS.  How about an example. Yes, that's a good summary of what we agreed on. The more I think about it,

[Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-16 Thread Martijn Faassen
Stephan Richter wrote: On Sunday 15 March 2009, Wichert Akkerman wrote: If the package does not work with an older version of zope.publisher than imho that version restriction *has* to be in setup.py. And what if I backport the fix? We have done version specification like this in the Zope

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-16 Thread Benji York
On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Martijn Faassen faas...@startifact.com wrote: Stephan Richter wrote: On Sunday 15 March 2009, Wichert Akkerman wrote: If the package does not work with an older version of zope.publisher than imho that version restriction *has* to be in setup.py. And what if

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-16 Thread Stephan Richter
On Monday 16 March 2009, Martijn Faassen wrote: I'm not sure I agree you here, Stephan. A possible disagreement within the steering group, how interesting! :) :-) The most widely open requirement is this: zope.foo but another open requirement is this: zope.foo = 1.3 Sure, but here is

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-16 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi Betreff: Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py On Monday 16 March 2009, Martijn Faassen wrote: I'm not sure I agree you here, Stephan. A possible disagreement within the steering group, how interesting! :) :-) The most widely open requirement

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-16 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hey, Stephan Richter wrote: [snip] There is a compromise I am willing to take. If package zope.bar depends on a *new feature* or *feature change* in zope.foo 1.3.x, then it should specify the version. In other words specifying open restrictions on the major version levels is okay, but

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-16 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hey, Roger Ineichen wrote: [snip] Even if it's rare, why should we not support that? The consequence of fixing versions is to skip backporting. There is no way to have both. Are you really sure we like to skip backporting. I haven't a clear idea about how often we backport and even less an

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-16 Thread Dan Korostelev
2009/3/16 Martijn Faassen faas...@startifact.com: There is a compromise I am willing to take. If package zope.bar depends on a *new feature* or *feature change* in zope.foo 1.3.x, then it should specify the version. In other words specifying open restrictions on the major version levels is

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-16 Thread Gary Poster
On Mar 16, 2009, at 12:05 PM, Dan Korostelev wrote: 2009/3/16 Martijn Faassen faas...@startifact.com: There is a compromise I am willing to take. If package zope.bar depends on a *new feature* or *feature change* in zope.foo 1.3.x, then it should specify the version. In other words

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-16 Thread Michael Howitz
Am 16.03.2009 um 15:49 schrieb Benji York: [...] I don't like version requirements in setup.py because they assume too much about how people are using the package. Lets say that someone adds two bug fixes to zope.foo (call them fix A and fix B) and then does a release. Fix A requires

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-16 Thread Michael Howitz
Am 16.03.2009 um 16:56 schrieb Martijn Faassen: Hey, Stephan Richter wrote: [snip] There is a compromise I am willing to take. If package zope.bar depends on a *new feature* or *feature change* in zope.foo 1.3.x, then it should specify the version. In other words specifying open

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-16 Thread Wichert Akkerman
Previously Martijn Faassen wrote: Hey, Stephan Richter wrote: [snip] There is a compromise I am willing to take. If package zope.bar depends on a *new feature* or *feature change* in zope.foo 1.3.x, then it should specify the version. In other words specifying open restrictions on

Re: [Zope-dev] setting missing minimum version in setup.py

2009-03-16 Thread Jacob Holm
Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously Martijn Faassen wrote: Hey, Stephan Richter wrote: [snip] There is a compromise I am willing to take. If package zope.bar depends on a *new feature* or *feature change* in zope.foo 1.3.x, then it should specify the version. In other words