Hi Jean,
You might get more feedback from the ZPatterns list on something
like this. My gut reaction is that subclassing in python 2.1/1.5
traverses the classes to find methods in a way that makes the *order* of
classes very important. IIUC Python 2.2 has a much more sophisticated
From: Andrew Kenneth Milton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Noone from Zope Corp seems to monitor the list to help out.
That is not my experience at all. I have received answers from Zope corps
several times. But sure, most of the answers you get come from the community
members. Thats what a community is all
Lennart Regebro wrote:
What I do agree on is that Zope corp not always seem to *listen* to the
community. It is hard to contribute to Zope, and it feels to me that you
have to fight to make Zope Corp to things the right way, even when you in
fact already have done the work for them. I
* Lennart Regebro [EMAIL PROTECTED] [011130 11:24]:
From: Andrew Kenneth Milton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Noone from Zope Corp seems to monitor the list to help out.
That is not my experience at all. I have received answers from Zope corps
several times. But sure, most of the answers you get come
Lennart Regebro wrote:
Does the fishbowl process address this for you?
http://dev.zope.org/Fishbowl/Introduction.html
I'm aware of the fishbowl process.
Sorry, I wasn't clear with my question.
Does the fishbowl process address what you said about having to fight to
get things done
On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:28:44 +, Steve Alexander
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does the fishbowl process address what you said about having to fight to
get things done the right way, even when you've already produced the
code, and making up for people's lack of time to do everything?
In my
Steve Alexander wrote:
Does the fishbowl process address this for you?
http://dev.zope.org/Fishbowl/Introduction.html
From me, that'll be a resounding no.
Every single idea I've had for Zope has died somewhere in the fishbowl, and not
because people have turned round and
gone no,
Paul Everitt wrote:
Moral: there's a difference between correct and right. While we might
have good reasons for inattention, it will surely lead to an
unsatisfying conclusion. Thus, ZC needs to be smaller part of a larger
Zope, IMO, and do this by spending more time helping the community
At 03:01 PM 11/30/2001 +, Chris Withers wrote:
Steve Alexander wrote:
Does the fishbowl process address this for you?
http://dev.zope.org/Fishbowl/Introduction.html
From me, that'll be a resounding no.
Every single idea I've had for Zope has died somewhere in the fishbowl,
and
And they have their own issues, what with needing to make money out of
Zope, which means intrinsically that all of us
outside of Zope Corp are in competition with them.
No that is not true. In Germany for example, noone feels in competition
with Zope Corp., since they are not even looking for
3. We could use another open source tool. Bugzilla springs to
mind. Yes, it's not Zope, or even python, but it does
work, certainly better than anything we, as a community, have
right now or could build in the time it would take to
install and set up.
Well, I'm not too sure about that.
Stephan Richter wrote:
And they have their own issues, what with needing to make money out of
Zope, which means intrinsically that all of us
outside of Zope Corp are in competition with them.
No that is not true. In Germany for example, noone feels in competition
with Zope Corp., since
Magnus Heino wrote:
Well, I'm not too sure about that. Bugzilla is an undocumented, hacked,
run-at-one-place-but-dont-try-to-move-it-beast. imho. Just like
sourceforge...
And the fishbowl isn't? ;-)
I gave it a try a while ago, but threw it away.
I could say the same of the fishbowl.
Chris Withers wrote:
Paul Everitt wrote:
Moral: there's a difference between correct and right. While we might
have good reasons for inattention, it will surely lead to an
unsatisfying conclusion. Thus, ZC needs to be smaller part of a larger
Zope, IMO, and do this by spending more time
From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
1. We can build something better. I can list requirements but that's not
relevent here. However, this will take serious
effort (it's a hard problem...) and as we know from bitter experience,
things that need serious effort either don't
happen, take far
Thanks Andrew for a heartfelt description of what is
happening here.
It is clear that unlike the other freeware products
like Lenux, JBoss.., Zope has lost all of the
advantages of being a freeware product.
What I find sad is that the extreme commercialization
of Zope is hurting Zope- this
Casey Duncan wrote:
I propose (as I just did on zope-web) that ZC do one more little thing for
us. Open the web infrastructure up to a few of us. I would be willing to
spend a few nights hashing out a more active fishbowl system if that's
what's important. Lets take that first step
Chris McDonough wrote:
Those who know of these problems can write clean applications but
these
issues are kept strictly
confidential.
Isn't this dangerously close to a conspiracy theory?
Yes, he's right -- we hid the information on this top-secret thing
called the World Wide Web:
Troll! And a funny one at that. (I think.)
seb
* Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] [011130 16:28]:
I can't decide if this is a hoax or not :-S
Can anyone comment?
Chris
Clark O'Brien wrote:
Thanks Andrew for a heartfelt description of what is
happening here.
It is clear
Paul Everitt wrote:
You're going to love the irony on this, but there's a proposal in the
fishbowl on this:
http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/FishbowlManageability
...and of course, nobody knows the proposal is there.
hehe, read Casey's response, it makes the same comment.
This isn't a good track record. Brian produced 35 pages worth of
almost-flawless docs on web services to go with his code. But no
comments. And he's doing this on his own time. So let's remember that
this is a two-way street.
Well, that checkin was done to the cvs 4 days ago. If you
emf wrote:
As I currently run 30-60 storage servers on a machine, I would be very
interested in testing out such a patch, if you'd be willing to send it
along.
It's in CVS, just check out the appropriate branch:
Jim Fulton wrote:
OK, I made a CVS branch, BTreeFSIndex-branch (made from
Clark,
sorry to be blunt, but you're talking through your arse!
you make some v. wild statements and offer no justification for them:
i can only conclude that the application you refer to in fact
suffered from the same flawed methodology...
if you can be bothered, i would be interested to
+2
I like the idea of unifying the fishbowl and the collector. And I
agree about notification.
seb
___
Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev
** No cross posts or HTML encoding! **
(Related lists
Magnus Heino wrote:
Well, that checkin was done to the cvs 4 days ago. If you haven't
read the one line at dev.zope.org about it being available in the
cvs, or if you dont subscribe to the cvs mailinglist, how are you
supposed to know that it exists? :-P
Actually, he sent an email to
It's been mentioning that ZC doesn't pay attention, so proposals go in
and nothing happens. Bugzilla won't fix that problem. I'll add that
the community doesn't always pay good enough attention. Sure, people
will say when will we have versioning or when will we have web
services. We
Thanks Steve,
No doubt that is probably what is happening. Sadly, I need ZClass1 to be
a dataskin. I could always copy over the few properties and methods
shared by ZClass1 and ZCLass2 to ZCLass2 and inherit only from DataSkin
and Folder; not the nicest, but that would work for now. My approach
Paul Everitt wrote:
This isn't a good track record. Brian produced 35 pages worth of
almost-flawless docs on web services to go with his code. But no
comments. And he's doing this on his own time. So let's remember that
this is a two-way street.
snip
* Chris Withers [EMAIL
Jean Lagarde wrote:
Thanks Steve,
No doubt that is probably what is happening. Sadly, I need ZClass1 to be
a dataskin.
Make both ZClass1 and ZClass2 derive from Dataskin before anything else.
It will do no harm that DataSkin is derived from twice in one class.
--
Steve Alexander
Brian Lloyd wrote:
snip fishbowl ain't easy to use
spot on ;-)
- The fishbowl needs to be integrated with email in order to stay on
people's radar.
Hallelujah!
- There needs to be a way to filter the firehose so that people on
all sides can focus on the things they care
Well, that checkin was done to the cvs 4 days ago. If you haven't
read the one line at dev.zope.org about it being available in the
cvs, or if you dont subscribe to the cvs mailinglist, how are you
supposed to know that it exists? :-P
Actually, he sent an email to zope-dev on
Magnus Heino wrote:
This is just a guess, but I suspect that this is a sort of unfortunate
cycle developing: people post proposals, get (understandably) dismayed
at the response time and end up not spending much time there, either
contributing or providing feedback.
Well, lets move this
Magnus Heino wrote:
Well, lets move this discussion to a wiki and see how it goes...
Please god, no...
Chris
___
Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev
** No cross posts or HTML encoding! **
Brian Lloyd wrote:
[snip]
When we first opened the fishbowl, it was with the certainty that we
wouldn't get it right immediately. That's why we went with the
intentially low-tech approach of a pile of Wikis. That first step
actually worked pretty well for a while until we hit
Chris,
I posted the bug at 11/30/2001 11:17 AM, a copy was
also sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am using a different
e-mail now because my other e-mail address no longer
receives messages from zope-dev.
Clark
--- Chris McDonough [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I posted a serious
I posted the bug at 11/30/2001 11:17 AM... snip
That's less than two hours ago. I didn't get the mail nor do I see it
on Zope-dev. Is your assertion that I or someone else prevented it
from showing up on Zope-dev? Who exactly was it that told you it
wasn't a problem, and in what manner did
-Original Message-
From: Clark OBrien
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 7:14 AM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: Zope optimistic transactions.
Chris,
I set up a test harness to exercise zopes optimistic
CW == Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
CW Now here I really gotta shout loud 'cos I've made this point
CW so many times I'm wondering how I can say it so it gets
CW through... (Paul, here, have some earplugs ;-)
CW Notification, which bugzilla offers, MAKES ALL THE
It's Steves to the rescue today!
Using the order (DataSkin, Folder, ZClass1) seems to have done the
trick! Thanks!
I would have thought about subclassing DataSkin again, eventually ;-) I
had tried to inherit from (Folder, ZClass1) rather than (ZClass1,
Folder), but that order was giving me a
There won't be any more discussion about this issue from me.
- C
- Original Message -
From: Clark OBrien [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 12:48 PM
Subject: [Zope-dev] FW: Zope optimistic transactions.
-Original Message-
From:
Dude, it's not a bug. You're *meant* to get a ConflictError exception
when writes conflict. That signals the publisher to retry.
Search on zope.org for conflict resolution.
Regards,
seb
* Clark O'Brien [EMAIL PROTECTED] [011130 18:05]:
That was not the point dude. Your cowardly call for a
He he, Another classic Withers-style measured response ;-) Easy on
those flames, dude...Everyone move along now, there's nothing to see
here...
seb
* Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] [011130 18:19]:
Clark O'Brien wrote:
That was not the point dude. Your cowardly call for a
response
Since I get paid to do Zope and I feel extremely fortunate to be in that
position, I will say that there are different types of community involvement
that I divide my time across:
1) Activism (like this)
2) Help (Like on [EMAIL PROTECTED] or zopelabs or whatever)
3) Working on my own open
On 30 Nov 2001 at 12:54, Andrew Kuchling wrote:
On Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 05:57:17PM +, seb bacon wrote:
What we need, as Paul suggested about zope-web, is a set of community
members who are able and willing to contribute 10 hours per week. I think
there are very few such people. I would
seb bacon wrote:
He he, Another classic Withers-style measured response ;-)
*vbg*
Let him justify his space in my inbox ;-)
Chris
___
Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev
** No cross posts or
Hi,
I want to change the Awaiting Resources state of the
SiteAccessUsabilityEnhancements to a real project ... I read all the
docs i could find on the process, but I can't see what happens to move
it from awaiting to actual...
--
ethan mindlace fremen | iMeme - The most full featured Zope
I want to change the Awaiting Resources state of the
SiteAccessUsabilityEnhancements to a real project ... I read all the
docs i could find on the process, but I can't see what happens to move
it from awaiting to actual...
It's in the fishbowl introduction:
I am hardly qualified to participate in zope-dev issues, but feel compelled
to comment on the tools thread. I find it amusing with the wealth of IT
experience involved that the group doesnt just take existing Zope code and
polish off an uber-Product to handle everything. Somebody with project
On Friday, November 30, 2001, at 04:18 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote:
What I do agree on is that Zope corp not always seem to *listen* to the
community. It is hard to contribute to Zope, and it feels to me
that you
have to fight to make Zope Corp to things the right way, even when
you in
seb bacon wrote:
What we need, as Paul suggested about zope-web, is a set of community
members who are able and willing to contribute 10 hours per week. I
think there are very few such people. I would love to, but I simply
can't. The best way of getting such people is to cast the community
Andrew Kenneth Milton writes:
It is the people who are in the trenches who are increasingly being
disaffected by Zope Corp, it seems as if you're not subscribed to zope-dev,
you have no voice, and for most people zope-dev is not an appropriate forum
for them to be subscribed to.
Hi!
To be honest i would be happy for Zope 3 not to be backwards
compatible. Tidy it up, delete the unless code, dare i say it -
refactor. Yes so my products will break, well half a days refactoring
myself and i have a tidier more understandable project anyway.
YES, we need a new start.
Noone from Zope Corp seems to monitor the list to help out.
That is not my experience at all. I have received answers from Zope corps
several times. But sure, most of the answers you get come from the
community
members. Thats what a community is all about, and thats the hallmark of a
good
Does the fishbowl process address this for you?
http://dev.zope.org/Fishbowl/Introduction.html
From me, that'll be a resounding no.
Every single idea I've had for Zope has died somewhere in the fishbowl,
and not because people have turned round and
gone no, that's a crap idea. That
I seem to have to comment on most of the mails in this thread. Sorry for
that ;-)
Personally, I think ZC are trying very hard, but are not getting it
right. I'm also very sure they are taking this conversation
seriously. Brian responded very quickly to the userfolder 'api'
issues. They
Hi Paul!
I don't want to replace one group of people with a busy agenda with
another group of people with a busy agenda. We need a small group of
people that are willing to make a long-term commitment to
responsibility. These people can then tap into others that can commit
on an as-needed
IMO, Bugzilla won't fix these kinds of problems. I think the first step
is to refine what we have while finding better ways to work together.
We definitely need a ZOPE-based approach. What I really don't get is this:
We all seem to be building Zope-based systems for communities, public
Notification, which bugzilla offers, MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE!!
Email notification is good enough, if I want that to beep my cellphone, I
just
send it to me genie.co.uk email address...
Yet another comment: That translates to We finally need MAILMAN integration
into Zope!
I mean,
I think there's another problem here: possibly the community isn't
large enough yet. There's already been a discussion on zope-coders
about how little those with commit priviledges are actually
committing, and the main reason is simply that no-one has enough
time.
This might be a bit
Where's the $99 version of Zope? The $499? The $1499? The
$25999? Zope Corp hasn't pulled that card out like many other
vendors have. There are actually many pieces of Zope that were
initially commercial add-ons (or intended to be) that are now all
open source.
I sometimes have the
When we first opened the fishbowl, it was with the certainty that we
wouldn't get it right immediately. That's why we went with the intentially
low-tech approach of a pile of Wikis. That first step actually worked
pretty well for a while until we hit critical-Wiki-mass and there were
I mean, Zope CAN send mails, but not that many (at least not efficiently).
Or how does Bugzilla do the mail stuff?
One at a time via sendmail. Bugzilla has lots of very, very useful features.
And does have to look like crap. We ended up using Bugzilla, it rocks.
http://bugs.activestate.com
The session management framework (formerly known as CoreSessionTracking, now
it is in the core and just called Session) is another example, if my first
look was right. The API seems to have changed a lot between the last CST and
the final Session release that is part of 2.5 beta. O.k., there
Chris was just drinking a beer with us at Orbit's twenty minutes ago,
and now he's responding to email on a Friday night. That's just sick.
I don't think your boss fully appreciates you, number 27. :^)
--Paul
Chris McDonough wrote:
The session management framework (formerly known as
He's also on #zope, chatting and supporting :)
On Saturday 01 December 2001 02:02, Paul Everitt wrote:
Chris was just drinking a beer with us at Orbit's twenty minutes ago,
and now he's responding to email on a Friday night. That's just sick.
I don't think your boss fully appreciates you,
...
This is a totally different business model than the one Zope Corp. is using
right now, but it might help refinancing the overhead a good community needs
to have ...
Would it have to be done by ZC?
___
Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
66 matches
Mail list logo