Re: [Zope-dev] stacks != easy to explain

2002-05-15 Thread Adrian Hungate
Whereas XML attributes, order indeterminisim, slots, METAL and templates are? Adrian... - Original Message - From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Marc Lindahl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: zope-dev [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 8:15 PM Subject: [Zope-dev] stacks != easy to

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: stacks != easy to explain

2002-05-15 Thread Adrian Hungate
Don't even get me started on that one! I don't think this is neccessarily a criticism of Zope though, or ZPT. We are all human, and apt to err. ZPT is imperfect, but the balance of opinion would appear to be that it is better than what has gone before. It is irritating to learn a new syntax, it

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: stacks != easy to explain

2002-05-15 Thread Chris Withers
From: Marc Lindahl [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip in the implementation on certain browsers. Which points to the inability of supposedly real programmers to understand stacks, parsing, state machines - not the poor HTML coders :) - if you read diatribes by the layout guys (like alistapart)

Re: [Zope-dev] stacks != easy to explain

2002-05-15 Thread Chris Withers
Adrian Hungate wrote: Whereas XML attributes, order indeterminisim, ...Solved by making it absolutely clear what order stuff executes in. If I was training people, I'd tell them to write it in that order too... slots, METAL and templates are? This is all METAL. METAL is not as simple or

Re: [Zope-dev] 'not:' kludgey?!

2002-05-15 Thread Chris Withers
Don Hopkins wrote: To be more accurate: Nope ;-) SOME templating languages were never designed to be procedural languages. ...if a language is designed to be a procedural language, then it ain't a templating language... cheers, Chris ___

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: stacks != easy to explain

2002-05-15 Thread Dario Lopez-Kästen
From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] it is hard to read (Some of us design Zope sites TTW...) Un-learn that habit too. It's so nice having things like search replace and syntax highlighting afterall... Now, this is an interesting statement and one I have heard often, and that I

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: stacks != easy to explain

2002-05-15 Thread Chris Withers
Hi Dario, Dario Lopez-Kästen wrote: Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the TTW part is what is one of the strenghts of Zope - Well, no, not really. Being able to edit stuff remotely is where Zope's real strength lies. WebDAV and FTP are much better than using sucky HTTP forms to do this

Re: [Zope-dev] restrictedTraverse

2002-05-15 Thread Florent Guillaume
Anybody has any light to shed on this ? Especially the second paragraph... Thanks, Florent Florent Guillaume [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With an object path /A/B/C where C has a local role allowing a user to view C but where B disallows acquisition of the View permission, the publisher

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope crash restart

2002-05-15 Thread Matt Behrens
Myroslav Opyr wrote: System Platform freebsd4 Are you running with the pthread stack size patches applied to Python? See https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailaid=554841group_id=5470atid=305470 for the patch, and recompile Python with OPT=-g -O2 -DTHREAD_STACK_SIZE=0x2

Re: [Zope-dev] Arbitrary definitions -vs- standard definitions

2002-05-15 Thread Marc Lindahl
on 5/14/02 6:11 PM, Don Hopkins at [EMAIL PROTECTED] scrivened: However, the standard, agreed-upon definition of XML EXPLICITLY defines attributes as being unordered, so any so-called templating language that depends on the order of attributes is BY DEFINITION not standard XML, and should

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope crash restart

2002-05-15 Thread Myroslav Opyr
Hi, it look like it works! I have to give site some time to run to be sure. Where I can vote for a bug or to give comments? On SF.tracker issue? to make it go into release. As far as I understand the patch is quick-hack to make it work and do not solve the issue completely, just increase the

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope crash restart

2002-05-15 Thread Jens Vagelpohl
add your comment, encouragement, flames et to the sourceforge bug tracker issue. i guess that would help most. jens On Wednesday, May 15, 2002, at 10:55 , Myroslav Opyr wrote: Hi, it look like it works! I have to give site some time to run to be sure. Where I can vote for a bug or to

Re: [Zope-dev] Zope crash restart

2002-05-15 Thread Jens Vagelpohl
this particular issue is *not* solved in 2.1.3 jens On Wednesday, May 15, 2002, at 10:00 , Myroslav Opyr wrote: As far as I remember the issue was solved in Python 2.1.3, wasn't it? Or it was GC patch? Ok, I'll try to patch sources... m. -- Myroslav Opyr zope.net.ua * Ukrainian Zope

[Zope-dev] References to hypertext templating languages

2002-05-15 Thread Don Hopkins
From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] 'not:' kludgey?! Don Hopkins wrote: To be more accurate: Nope ;-) SOME templating languages were never designed to be procedural languages. ...if a language is designed to be a procedural language, then it ain't a

Re: [Zope-dev] stacks != easy to explain

2002-05-15 Thread Don Hopkins
From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adrian Hungate [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Marc Lindahl [EMAIL PROTECTED]; zope-dev [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 1:32 AM Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] stacks != easy to explain Adrian Hungate wrote: Whereas XML attributes, order

[Zope-dev] Re: References to hypertext templating languages

2002-05-15 Thread Chris Withers
man, you have waaay to much tiem on your hands ;-) Chris Don Hopkins wrote: snipHello?! How much stuff... sorry, I didn't even read it/snip ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev **

Re: [Zope-dev] stacks != easy to explain

2002-05-15 Thread Chris Withers
whatever... Don Hopkins wrote: From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adrian Hungate [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Marc Lindahl [EMAIL PROTECTED]; zope-dev [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 1:32 AM Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] stacks != easy to explain Adrian Hungate wrote:

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: References to hypertext templating languages

2002-05-15 Thread Andy McKay
On May 15, 2002 11:13 am, Chris Withers wrote: man, you have waaay to much tiem on your hands ;-) Wow chris is typing sooo fast he cant spell teim properly... -- Andy McKay ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: References to hypertext templating languages

2002-05-15 Thread Chris Withers
Andy McKay wrote: On May 15, 2002 11:13 am, Chris Withers wrote: man, you have waaay to much tiem on your hands ;-) Wow chris is typing sooo fast he cant spell teim properly... Nah, I just suffer from IFS... Chris ___ Zope-Dev

Re: [Zope-dev] stacks != easy to explain

2002-05-15 Thread Steve Alexander
Adrian Hungate wrote: Whereas XML attributes, order indeterminisim, Chris Withers wrote: ...Solved by making it absolutely clear what order stuff executes in. If I was training people, I'd tell them to write it in that order too... Don Hopkins wrote: You can't make the order of XML

Re: [Zope-dev] stacks != easy to explain

2002-05-15 Thread Florent Guillaume
Don Hopkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...Solved by making it absolutely clear what order stuff executes in. If I was training people, I'd tell them to write it in that order too... You can't make the order of XML attribute execution clear, because