Re: [Zope-dev] zope.testrunner import location notifications

2009-05-28 Thread Christian Theune
Hi, On Tue, 2009-05-26 at 12:42 +0200, Martijn Faassen wrote: Hi there, (in particular Christian Theune) thanks for reminding. I dropped the ball on those. What's the status of the 'import location' notification functionality in zope.testrunner? I'll resume work on that once the ZODB

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zope.app.http/trunk/ - Replacedthedependency on zope.deprecation with BBB imports

2009-05-28 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, Roger Ineichen wrote: [snip] The only thing I could say about this concept is that we didn't start to remove #BBB marked imports. Just wait till we start remove the BBB imports and the packages from install_requires ... Since we were hardly in a hurry removing deprecation

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zope.app.http/trunk/- Replacedthedependency on zope.deprecation with BBB imports

2009-05-28 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hey, Stephan Richter wrote: [snip] I have been following this discussion and just want to mention that I fully agree with Roger. If you release a final version of Zope or a package that spews deprecation warnings or has not fixed the imports, then this should be considered bad releasing.

[Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, We have a concept of Site in the Zope Toolkit, along with SiteManager and the like. What this concept allows us to do is locally register components. Most typically this is used for local utilities such as a catalog. During traversal, a thread-local is set with the current site, so

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Jens Vagelpohl
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On May 28, 2009, at 13:08 , Martijn Faassen wrote: What do people think about: * the idea of renaming Site to Locus I think that's a terrible name. While site at least means something to people, locus doesn't carry any meaning in the specific

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hey, Jens Vagelpohl wrote: On May 28, 2009, at 13:08 , Martijn Faassen wrote: What do people think about: * the idea of renaming Site to Locus I think that's a terrible name. While site at least means something to people, locus doesn't carry any meaning in the specific knowledge

[Zope-dev] Zope Tests: 7 OK, 1 Failed

2009-05-28 Thread Zope Tests Summarizer
Summary of messages to the zope-tests list. Period Wed May 27 12:00:00 2009 UTC to Thu May 28 12:00:00 2009 UTC. There were 8 messages: 8 from Zope Tests. Test failures - Subject: FAILED (errors=1) : Zope-trunk-alltests Python-2.4.6 : Linux From: Zope Tests Date: Wed May 27 21:02:06

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zope.app.http/trunk/- Replacedthedependency on zope.deprecation with BBB imports

2009-05-28 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi Martijn Betreff: Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zope.app.http/trunk/- Replacedthedependency on zope.deprecation with BBB imports Hey, Stephan Richter wrote: [snip] I have been following this discussion and just want to mention that I fully agree with Roger. If you release a

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Matthew Wilkes
On 28 May 2009, at 12:39, Martijn Faassen wrote: * Hm, I wonder whether it has something to do with local utilities. I don't think I'd make this jump. I'd not be averse to a longer package name if it made it more explicit. Matt ___ Zope-Dev

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Wichert Akkerman
Previously Martijn Faassen wrote: I propose we use the word 'Locus' instead of 'Site'. This word doesn't have a lot of connotations in the web programming world, and people can guess by simply looking at the word it might have something to do with *local* components. It's also short. I

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Martijn Faassen
Matthew Wilkes wrote: On 28 May 2009, at 12:39, Martijn Faassen wrote: * Hm, I wonder whether it has something to do with local utilities. I don't think I'd make this jump. I'd not be averse to a longer package name if it made it more explicit. I wasn't primarily talking about a

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Martijn Faassen
Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously Martijn Faassen wrote: I propose we use the word 'Locus' instead of 'Site'. This word doesn't have a lot of connotations in the web programming world, and people can guess by simply looking at the word it might have something to do with *local*

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Wichert Akkerman
Previously Martijn Faassen wrote: Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously Martijn Faassen wrote: I propose we use the word 'Locus' instead of 'Site'. This word doesn't have a lot of connotations in the web programming world, and people can guess by simply looking at the word it might have

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi Martjin, Christian Betreff: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus [...] The second plan is my favorite if it is possible dependency-wise and zope.component doesn't take on new dependencies. I think support for local components could very well be part of zope.component conceptually. It would

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zope.app.http/trunk/- Replacedthedependency on zope.deprecation with BBB imports

2009-05-28 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hey, Roger Ineichen wrote: [snip] My fear is that deprecated imports will pull in packages and act as the single point of an egg declaration. If someone removes a dependency during a deprecation import cleanup lets say zope.formlib in z3c.form from version 1.9.0 to 2.0.0 then it's possible

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hey, Roger Ineichen wrote: [snip] What do people think about: * the idea of renaming Site to Locus Oh my god, many -1 Motivations beyond oh my god? One reason Locus might be a bad word is because it's easily confused with Location, a concept we already have. What I like to see is that

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zope.app.http/trunk/- Replacedthedependency on zope.deprecation with BBB imports

2009-05-28 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi Martjin Betreff: Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zope.app.http/trunk/- Replacedthedependency on zope.deprecation with BBB imports Hey, Roger Ineichen wrote: [snip] My fear is that deprecated imports will pull in packages and act as the single point of an egg declaration. If

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Lennart Regebro
zope.locusts? I don't think locus is an improvement to site. Although site is not strictly correct, it's often the fact that it is a site. Locus doesn't say anything, and adds another abstraction with no obvious benefit. A longer name is better in that case. Like componentlocation or

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread robert rottermann
One reason Locus might be a bad word is because it's easily confused with Location, a concept we already have. an other one is that in german locus is often used for a place where you sit down and use paper to clean your back afterwards.. robert

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi Martjin Betreff: Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus Hey, Roger Ineichen wrote: [snip] What do people think about: * the idea of renaming Site to Locus Oh my god, many -1 Motivations beyond oh my god? My first motivation was the same as Jens had. Lokus is such a unique word

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Fabio Tranchitella
* 2009-05-28 13:09, Martijn Faassen wrote: What do people think about: * the idea of renaming Site to Locus What is the technical advantage of renaming Site to Locus? To me it looks just like a (not so necessary) cosmetic change. Fabio. ___ Zope-Dev

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi Martjin Betreff: Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus I think if we really need a better naming, we should think about how everyting will fit together. e.g. application, root, site, registry, local, global component, location, container, item, etc. I don't think locus is the right missing

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Jim Fulton
A few high-level comments. 1. I admire your desire to make this clearer. :) 2. I think local configuration address use cases that most people don't have but introduce complexity that I bet a lot of developers trip over. 3. I think the right word here is local registry. I think the whole

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Martijn Faassen
Roger Ineichen wrote: [snip] The site offers a SiteManagementFolder, SiteManagerContainer and a LocalSiteManager. The SiteManagementFolder by default installed as ['default'] is absolutly useless and obsolate since the last refactoring. It's just a container, earlier it was a kind of

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Martijn Faassen
Fabio Tranchitella wrote: * 2009-05-28 13:09, Martijn Faassen wrote: What do people think about: * the idea of renaming Site to Locus What is the technical advantage of renaming Site to Locus? To me it looks just like a (not so necessary) cosmetic change. Obviously there is no technical

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi Jim Betreff: Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus A few high-level comments. 1. I admire your desire to make this clearer. :) 2. I think local configuration address use cases that most people don't have but introduce complexity that I bet a lot of developers trip over. 3. I

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi Martjin Betreff: Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus Roger Ineichen wrote: [snip] The site offers a SiteManagementFolder, SiteManagerContainer and a LocalSiteManager. The SiteManagementFolder by default installed as ['default'] is absolutly useless and obsolate since the last

[Zope-dev] refactoring site functionality

2009-05-28 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hey, Jim Fulton wrote: 2. I think local configuration address use cases that most people don't have but introduce complexity that I bet a lot of developers trip over. I think there are two cases where people typically deal with local configuration: * setting up local utilities (for

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hey, Roger Ineichen wrote: [snip] Probably a rare use case or could become imporant if we use other patterns then the container traversal pattern. Do you have some ideas of using a contianer less traversal pattern? Take a look at this graph:

Re: [Zope-dev] refactoring site functionality

2009-05-28 Thread Wichert Akkerman
Previously Martijn Faassen wrote: * often it is nice to have application configuration to have a user interface, so that end users can configure aspects of the application. This may be filling in an email address or customizing a template or adding a user, etc. Local utilities are a nice

Re: [Zope-dev] refactoring site functionality

2009-05-28 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi Wichert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: zope-dev-bounces+dev=projekt01...@zope.org [mailto:zope-dev-bounces+dev=projekt01...@zope.org] Im Auftrag von Wichert Akkerman Gesendet: Donnerstag, 28. Mai 2009 17:21 An: Martijn Faassen Cc: zope-dev@zope.org Betreff: Re: [Zope-dev]

Re: [Zope-dev] refactoring site functionality

2009-05-28 Thread Chris McDonough
On 5/28/09 11:00 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote: Hey, Jim Fulton wrote: 2. I think local configuration address use cases that most people don't have but introduce complexity that I bet a lot of developers trip over. I think there are two cases where people typically deal with local

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Stephan Richter
On Thursday 28 May 2009, Jim Fulton wrote: 3. I think the right word here is local registry.  I think the whole   concept should be labeled as advanced and we should discourage people   from even pondering it unless they have a strong use case, like   wanting to host multiple web sites with

Re: [Zope-dev] refactoring site functionality

2009-05-28 Thread Jim Fulton
On May 28, 2009, at 11:00 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote: Hey, Jim Fulton wrote: 2. I think local configuration address use cases that most people don't have but introduce complexity that I bet a lot of developers trip over. I think there are two cases where people typically deal with local

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Stephan Richter
On Thursday 28 May 2009, Martijn Faassen wrote: The SiteManagementFolder by default installed as ['default'] is absolutly useless and obsolate since the last refactoring. It's just a container, earlier it was a kind of namespace. Yes, with Grok we've been installing directly in the

Re: [Zope-dev] RFC: Site - Locus

2009-05-28 Thread Stephan Richter
On Thursday 28 May 2009, Martijn Faassen wrote: * the idea of renaming Site to Locus -1. I immediately had the same connotation as all the other German speakers. And I am studying genetics right now as well, so I knew about locus. Furthermore, I really do not see an advantage of renaming

Re: [Zope-dev] refactoring site functionality

2009-05-28 Thread Stephan Richter
On Thursday 28 May 2009, Roger Ineichen wrote: btw, you are pointing to a good direction. Didn't we talk about reload global configuration during runtime years ago? BTW, plone.reload looks really promising. Regards, Stephan -- Entrepreneur and Software Geek Google me. Zope Stephan Richter