Re: [Zope-dev] Arbitrary definitions -vs- standard definitions

[Marc Lindahl]

on 5/14/02 6:11 PM, Don Hopkins at [EMAIL PROTECTED] scrivened:

> 
> However, the standard, agreed-upon definition of XML EXPLICITLY defines
> attributes as being unordered, so any so-called "templating" language that
> depends on the order of attributes is BY DEFINITION not standard XML, and
> should not be advertised as such.

There are different concepts of ordering:
- sequential down the page
- hierarchical
- precedence 

I think we're talking about sequential - since XML does have a hierarchical
ordering, and doesn't seem to tread into precedence.  TAL defines precedence
(define before condition, etc.)

The idea for implementing 'else' (though I now think it's unneccessary) used
the hierarchical ordering of XML to get the ordering it needed.

But I also submit that ZPT can't be simply 'filling the slots' since it has
a condition statement.



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[Zope-dev] Arbitrary definitions -vs- standard definitions

[Don Hopkins]

There's absolutely nothing about your definition of templating languages
("all about filling in holes in a template") that precludes them being
procedural languages (or functional languages for that matter, as XSLT
attempts to be).

That's just your own arbitrary, artificial limitation that unfortunately has
been religiously applied to this particular templating language.
It's simply a trade-off that somebody decided to make, too long ago to
change.
The fact that "else" is kludgy is just one of the many unfortunate
consequences of that design decision.
That shouldn't discourage people from designing better templating languages.

Please don't impinge on the definition of all templating languages, just
because of the limitations of one particular implementation.
Lisp is a wonderfully powerful templating language, and it certainly
supports procedural, functional, object oriented, and many other kinds of
programming.

However, the standard, agreed-upon definition of XML EXPLICITLY defines
attributes as being unordered, so any so-called "templating" language that
depends on the order of attributes is BY DEFINITION not standard XML, and
should not be advertised as such.

-Don

From: "Chris Withers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] 'not:' kludgey?!


> > on 5/14/02 4:41 AM, Chris Withers at [EMAIL PROTECTED] scrivened:
> > >
> > > Okay, repeat the mantra over to yourself:
> > >
> > > Templating languages are not procedural languages
> >
> > Sounds nice, but what does it mean?  AFAIK a procedural language is
> > something that has a definite order of execution... How does a
templating
> > language differ?
>
> A template language is all about filling in holes in a template. This
should be thought of
> logically as happening 'all at once', so _not_ in a definite order of
execution...
>
> cheers,
>
> Chris




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