RE: Re: [Zope-dev] Where can I find the Zope XML DTD ?
--- Ursprungligt meddelande --- Från: Dieter Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Datum:Fri, 20 Dec 2002 21:35:51 +0100 Antonio De Marinis writes: ... In Zope there is an XML-export as everybody knows. My question is: does anybody know if there is a DTD for the Zope produced XML and where I can find it? I think, there is no DTD. As you know, XML document do not need to follow a DTD. yes I know ... but it is always good to have one :-) Why I ask for it? If I have a DTD I could use Zope objects exported in XML and use them in external XML processing tools with validation. A practical examples is to use them together with XML enabled translations tools like Trados TagEditor. Then you can just export a Zope object, send it for translation to the translators and get back all the translated objects ready to import into Zope via ZMI (no more time on boring copy and paste). I do not think this is workable. The XML exported only describes the structure of the document. The semantics is covered only very implicitly. I doubt very much that you find an easy syntactic criterion (based on XML structure) that distinguishes between text to be translated (like title) and text that must not be touched (like id). I see the issue. But it would be good to have such semantics in the produced XML, so you can use it further ... otherwise I don't know what the XML produced by Zope should be used for ... I haven't find any use of it except of this idea to send it to translation companies. Look at the internationalization tools localizer, ZBabel and the internationalization support in ZPT. I think these are better approaches. I've looked into them and they are good approaches but they only try to solve the developer/programmer I18N issues and NOT those issues regarding how to get all that traslated text into Zope from externals translators. That is my issue. I would like to export Zope objects localizible text (title, abstract, error messages, pieces of HTML, metadata etc ... ) and send this information to the translators who use XML-enabled tools in order to translate text into several languages. (An emerging XML standard for translation is XLIFF, http://www.xliff.org.) Often we are not able to let translators access the ZMI and input the translations directly into Zope, they are not familiar with Zope and they have to use the proffesional translation tools with all the features included (spell checking, thesaurus, work-flow, translation memories etc...). It would be a nightmare to insert all the translations into Zope via the ZMI and Localizer. It works ok for a small size of text. But for the amount of objects we have to translate it would take ages, and why retype the whole text from the translators. Localizer and ZBabel do not solve this problem. They solve the programmer issues. These tools haven't really recognized the translator role and how they work. They are not Zopatists and not any kind of Zope editor, they work in other companies and use their own tools and XML standards. If we want Zope to be a real Multilingual Content Management Tool then it would be a good choice to adabt Zope to the standards used in these translations tools. Dieter Thanks for your help and interests in this discussion. Antonio _ Här börjar internet! Skaffa gratis e-mail och gratis internet på http://www.spray.se Träffa folk från hela Sverige på ett och samma ställe - http://chat.spray.se/
RE: Re: [Zope-dev] Where can I find the Zope XML DTD ?
Antonio De Marinis wrote at 2002-12-22 12:03 +0100: Localizer and ZBabel do not solve this problem. They solve the programmer issues. These tools haven't really recognized the translator role and how they work. They are not Zopatists and not any kind of Zope editor, they work in other companies and use their own tools and XML standards. If we want Zope to be a real Multilingual Content Management Tool then it would be a good choice to adabt Zope to the standards used in these translations tools. I have not looked into Localizer or ZBabel in detail. However, as I understand them, they work with message catalogs (maintained, e.g. in a database). If this is true, you simply export these catalogs in a format your translators like, let them be translated and reimport. Dieter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
RE: RE: Re: [Zope-dev] Where can I find the Zope XML DTD ?
--- Ursprungligt meddelande --- Från: Dieter Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Datum:Sun, 22 Dec 2002 18:30:51 +0100 Antonio De Marinis wrote at 2002-12-22 12:03 +0100: Localizer and ZBabel do not solve this problem. They solve the programmer issues. These tools haven't really recognized the translator role and how they work. They are not Zopatists and not any kind of Zope editor, they work in other companies and use their own tools and XML standards. If we want Zope to be a real Multilingual Content Management Tool then it would be a good choice to adabt Zope to the standards used in these translations tools. I have not looked into Localizer or ZBabel in detail. However, as I understand them, they work with message catalogs (maintained, e.g. in a database). If this is true, you simply export these catalogs in a format your translators like, let them be translated and reimport. If all text was kept in a message catalog then yes. This would be the way to go. I think ZBabel keeps all translated text in a central database while Localizer keeps the text tight together with the object instances ... there are pro and contra for both solutions ... I will probably implement some product that export/import Localizer objects to XLIFF. That would be the best solution I think. Let's see if this christmas holiday we'll help us come up with other ideas ;-) Thanks for your help, Antonio Dieter _ Här börjar internet! Skaffa gratis e-mail och gratis internet på http://www.spray.se Träffa folk från hela Sverige på ett och samma ställe - http://chat.spray.se/
Re: [Zope-dev] Where can I find the Zope XML DTD ?
Antonio De Marinis writes: ... In Zope there is an XML-export as everybody knows. My question is: does anybody know if there is a DTD for the Zope produced XML and where I can find it? I think, there is no DTD. As you know, XML document do not need to follow a DTD. Why I ask for it? If I have a DTD I could use Zope objects exported in XML and use them in external XML processing tools with validation. A practical examples is to use them together with XML enabled translations tools like Trados TagEditor. Then you can just export a Zope object, send it for translation to the translators and get back all the translated objects ready to import into Zope via ZMI (no more time on boring copy and paste). I do not think this is workable. The XML exported only describes the structure of the document. The semantics is covered only very implicitly. I doubt very much that you find an easy syntactic criterion (based on XML structure) that distinguishes between text to be translated (like title) and text that must not be touched (like id). Look at the internationalization tools localizer, ZBabel and the internationalization support in ZPT. I think these are better approaches. Dieter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Where can I find the Zope XML DTD ?
Hi, I'm not sure if this is the right forum, but I've search in other lists without any success. In Zope there is an XML-export as everybody knows. My question is: does anybody know if there is a DTD for the Zope produced XML and where I can find it? Why I ask for it? If I have a DTD I could use Zope objects exported in XML and use them in external XML processing tools with validation. A practical examples is to use them together with XML enabled translations tools like Trados TagEditor. Then you can just export a Zope object, send it for translation to the translators and get back all the translated objects ready to import into Zope via ZMI (no more time on boring copy and paste). I hope there is a DTD, I could not find it. Many thanks. Antonio _ Här börjar internet! Skaffa gratis e-mail och gratis internet på http://www.spray.se Träffa folk från hela Sverige på ett och samma ställe - http://chat.spray.se/
