Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zope on Windows - REQUEST for volunteers

2005-03-21 Thread Chris Withers
Mark Hammond wrote:
A quick search for windows doesn't show too many.  As far as I can tell,
all but 2 (1689 and 1728) are fixed with my patches.  I also note that my
patches have been sitting there for a number of months now - so I humbly
suggest the problem is not simply a lack of appropriate fixes :)
Yes, but it is a shortage of people knowledgeable enough to merge them ;-)
In my experience, that is not true.  Zope on Windows is generally as stable
as Zope on any platform.  
I'll second that.
* All Zope versions are clearly broken (as above) in fundamental (but
generally the same) ways on Windows, but the status of my patches as
features vs bugfixes is unclear - especially given my lack of
understanding of the culture or the Zope world beyond Plone.
They're bugfixes, I don't think anyone would complain if you fixed 2.7 
AND 2.8 ;-)

I understand I could probably gain committer privileges but as mentioned, I
wouldn't quite know what to do with them if I did wink
Well, you could merge your patches. I suspect you're the only person 
knowledgeable and confident enough to do so. Many people would thank you 
for it though :-)

cheers,
Chris
--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope  Python Consulting
   - http://www.simplistix.co.uk
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RE: [Zope-dev] Re: Zope on Windows - REQUEST for volunteers

2005-03-20 Thread Mark Hammond
Andreas:

 | there are several open issues in the Zope collector with
 | Zope running on Windows. I can't see anyone worrying
 | about the Windows platform (I also don't care about
 | Windows as UN*X guy). So if you are interested
 | in running Zope on Windows in a reasonable way than *you*
 | should help to fix the outstanding bugs.

A quick search for windows doesn't show too many.  As far as I can tell,
all but 2 (1689 and 1728) are fixed with my patches.  I also note that my
patches have been sitting there for a number of months now - so I humbly
suggest the problem is not simply a lack of appropriate fixes :)

 | I heard some remarks (behind my back)
 | that Zope is not a stable solution on Windows...possibly.

In my experience, that is not true.  Zope on Windows is generally as stable
as Zope on any platform.  Zope on Windows does suffer a form of neglect, but
that doesn't make it unstable so much as unsuitable - things like
service error handling, lack of log rotation, clean shutdown etc all mean
Zope lacks features necessary for serious consideration on Windows, but is
not unstable.

So next time you hear those second-hand comments, you can confidently
dismiss them as FUD :)

[Tres]
 I told Alan Runyan at the sprint in Paris that we would be
 glad to have Enfold's Windows stability patches folded back
 into upstream.  He was glad to hear it;  I hope to see something
 from Andy / Alan / Sidnei soon.

 I'd really like to see our win32all story cleaned up, per Mark
 Hammond's issues, too.

In case it isn't well known, I am working for Enfold.  Thus, patches from
Andy, Alan or Sid are all going to be mine anyway :)  All except logfile
rotation have been submitted as patches to the collector, and the motivation
to submit that is low while the other patches remain outstanding.

By way of background, the story behind these patches languishing is:

* I enter the scene with no clue about Zope or the Zope culture.  I slowly
discover Enfold are mainly interested in Plone which is currently stuck at
Zope 2.7.x.  I've still so much to understand :)

* I realize Zope 2.7.x is clearly a maintenance branch (from Zope's POV),
but also a trunk branch from the POV of Plone (and therefore from mine
wink)

* All Zope versions are clearly broken (as above) in fundamental (but
generally the same) ways on Windows, but the status of my patches as
features vs bugfixes is unclear - especially given my lack of
understanding of the culture or the Zope world beyond Plone.

* Being part of Enfold, I try and punt all these issues off to poor Sid, who
also doesn't care for Windows, so doesn't really know how to handle the
issue either.

* Enfold continue to release a frankenstein version of Zope 2.7.x on
Windows :)  Occasionally zope-dev sees a bit of noise on Windows issues
before all again goes quiet...

I understand I could probably gain committer privileges but as mentioned, I
wouldn't quite know what to do with them if I did wink

Mark.

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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zope on Windows - REQUEST for volunteers

2005-03-20 Thread Jens Vagelpohl
* I realize Zope 2.7.x is clearly a maintenance branch (from Zope's 
POV),
but also a trunk branch from the POV of Plone (and therefore from 
mine
wink)
At this point we all know that Zope 2.8 will bring *a lot of changes*. 
There might be quite a few people (including the whole Plone community) 
who will wait out the first few point releases of 2.8 and stick with 
2.7. I currently count myself in that group.

It sounds reasonable to me to be a tad less stringent on the feature 
vs bug fix on the Zope-2_7-branch at this point. I have to admit I 
really don't care about Windows myself, but it's sad that good and 
reasonable fixes like Mark's Windows patches are languishing. To me 
they would be good candidates not just for CVS HEAD but also the 
Zope-2_7-branch.

Just my 2 cents from my sysadmin perspective - I'd be hopping mad if I 
had to administer a system where these fundamental issues that still 
exist on the Windows port were not solved.

jens
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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zope on Windows - REQUEST for volunteers

2005-03-20 Thread Tim Peters
[Mark Hammond]
...
 * All Zope versions are clearly broken (as above) in fundamental (but
 generally the same) ways on Windows, but the status of my patches as
 features vs bugfixes is unclear - especially given my lack of
 understanding of the culture or the Zope world beyond Plone.

They're clearly bugfixes to me; that shouldn't be a hangup here. 
What's missing is a Zope committer who runs on Windows volunteering
time to commit the patches in 2.7-land, and to port them to 2.8- and
3.0-land (those require more than just mechanical merge, because
things like moving to Python's standard logging module require
rewriting code).

Alas, Zope in Windowsland attracts about as much volunteer work apart
from Mark Hammond as, say, Python 1.5.2 in Windowsland did.  Mark
understands what that means.  Everyone else can read it as except for
building the installer, hard to distinguish from none 0.7 wink.
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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Zope on Windows - REQUEST for volunteers

2005-03-20 Thread Tim Peters
[Mark Hammond]
...
 I understand I could probably gain committer privileges

Send in a contributor form, and that's certain.

 but as mentioned, I wouldn't quite know what to do with them if I
 did wink

You would use your new powers only for good.  If you ran the Zope test
suite before checking in changes, what could possibly go wrong wink?
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