Re: [Zope-dev] Comment on CVS change of default textindex search operator
"R. David Murray" wrote: > > Likewise. But this is the can of worms I alluded to. Another > approach would be to allow the default operator to be specified at > query time . That would be cool :-) FWIW, I don't think the default changing is a good idea, simple 'cos it suddenly changes how a lot of sites behave, unless their maintainers go and recode them... cheers, Chris ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Comment on CVS change of default textindex search operator
"R. David Murray" wrote: > > On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Casey Duncan wrote: > > > It's so broken with OR for large datasets that the search results are > > > virtually meaningless. We see this first-hand on Zope.org (which is now > > > ANDed after an upgrade) and in most of our consulting projects. > > > > > > I strongly agree that there should be an easy way to switch textindex > > > default queries between OR and AND on a per-index basis. > > > > > > > I'd even be happy with a per catalog basis. > > Likewise. But this is the can of worms I alluded to. Another > approach would be to allow the default operator to be specified at > query time . > Agreed. This should be part of the ZCatalog search API in addition to the default specified. -- | Casey Duncan | Kaivo, Inc. | [EMAIL PROTECTED] `--> ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Comment on CVS change of default textindex search operator
On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Casey Duncan wrote: > > It's so broken with OR for large datasets that the search results are > > virtually meaningless. We see this first-hand on Zope.org (which is now > > ANDed after an upgrade) and in most of our consulting projects. > > > > I strongly agree that there should be an easy way to switch textindex > > default queries between OR and AND on a per-index basis. > > > > I'd even be happy with a per catalog basis. Likewise. But this is the can of worms I alluded to. Another approach would be to allow the default operator to be specified at query time . My main concern, though, is having a major behavior change happen with a release upgrade. I think this is OK as long as it is clearly documented and there is a way to get the old behavior back; in which case a per-catalog setting is sufficient. Whether the default should be AND or OR is still a point of debate, though, and one I have no clue how to resolve. --RDM ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Comment on CVS change of default textindex search operator
Chris McDonough wrote: > > It's so broken with OR for large datasets that the search results are > virtually meaningless. We see this first-hand on Zope.org (which is now > ANDed after an upgrade) and in most of our consulting projects. > > I strongly agree that there should be an easy way to switch textindex > default queries between OR and AND on a per-index basis. > I'd even be happy with a per catalog basis. > > I'd be willing to switch it back, but gad... OR is just *so* useless. ;-) > -- | Casey Duncan | Kaivo, Inc. | [EMAIL PROTECTED] `--> ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Comment on CVS change of default textindex search operator
It's so broken with OR for large datasets that the search results are virtually meaningless. We see this first-hand on Zope.org (which is now ANDed after an upgrade) and in most of our consulting projects. I strongly agree that there should be an easy way to switch textindex default queries between OR and AND on a per-index basis. I'd be willing to switch it back, but gad... OR is just *so* useless. ;-) - Original Message - From: "Casey Duncan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "R. David Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 11:07 AM Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Comment on CVS change of default textindex search operator > "R. David Murray" wrote: > > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 19:47:31 -0500 (EST) > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris McDonough) > > >Subject: [Zope-Checkins] CVS: Zope2 - UnTextIndex.py:1.33.2.9 > > > > > >Update of /cvs-repository/Zope2/lib/python/SearchIndex > > >In directory korak:/home/chrism/sandboxes/2_3Branch/lib/python/SearchIndex > > > > > >Modified Files: > > > Tag: zope-2_3-branch > > > UnTextIndex.py > > >Log Message: > > >Changed default query operator to 'AND' instead of 'OR' (way improved search results). > > > > This strikes me as a Very Bad Thing. Not the idea of having AND be the > > default query operator, but the fact of *changing* the default. If I > > remember correctly the default is documented (insofar as it is documented) > > as being AND, but the default has been OR for so long that I'm sure there > > are many sites that will break if this change is committed to a release. > > Worse, the behavior of a site as seen by end users will change. Finally, > > it is my experience that most search engines use OR as the default operator. > > I prefer AND myself, but OR appears to be something of a defacto standard. > > > > I'm willing to be convinced, though . > > > > A way to set the default would be cool, but might open up a can of worms. > > > > --RDM > > > > I'm a little torn between being alarmed at this and agreeing with it. I > think if this is done there should be an TTW interface in ZCatalog to > switch between AND and OR as the default. That would be the best > solution IMHO. Also a _documented_ way to switch it in Catalog as well. > > My $0.02 > > -- > | Casey Duncan > | Kaivo, Inc. > | [EMAIL PROTECTED] > `--> > > ___ > Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) > ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Comment on CVS change of default textindex search operator
R. David Murray writes: > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 19:47:31 -0500 (EST) > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris McDonough) > >Subject: [Zope-Checkins] CVS: Zope2 - UnTextIndex.py:1.33.2.9 > > > >Update of /cvs-repository/Zope2/lib/python/SearchIndex > >In directory korak:/home/chrism/sandboxes/2_3Branch/lib/python/SearchIndex > > > >Modified Files: > > Tag: zope-2_3-branch > >UnTextIndex.py > >Log Message: > >Changed default query operator to 'AND' instead of 'OR' (way improved search >results). > > > This strikes me as a Very Bad Thing. I second that! Changing the default is a drastic interface change. It should not be done light-heartedly. > > Finally, > it is my experience that most search engines use OR as the default operator. Yes, and it is the more natural interpretation when someone enters a set of (unrelated) words... Dieter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Comment on CVS change of default textindex search operator
"R. David Murray" wrote: > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 19:47:31 -0500 (EST) > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris McDonough) > >Subject: [Zope-Checkins] CVS: Zope2 - UnTextIndex.py:1.33.2.9 > > > >Update of /cvs-repository/Zope2/lib/python/SearchIndex > >In directory korak:/home/chrism/sandboxes/2_3Branch/lib/python/SearchIndex > > > >Modified Files: > > Tag: zope-2_3-branch > > UnTextIndex.py > >Log Message: > >Changed default query operator to 'AND' instead of 'OR' (way improved search >results). > > This strikes me as a Very Bad Thing. Not the idea of having AND be the > default query operator, but the fact of *changing* the default. If I > remember correctly the default is documented (insofar as it is documented) > as being AND, but the default has been OR for so long that I'm sure there > are many sites that will break if this change is committed to a release. > Worse, the behavior of a site as seen by end users will change. Finally, > it is my experience that most search engines use OR as the default operator. > I prefer AND myself, but OR appears to be something of a defacto standard. > > I'm willing to be convinced, though . > > A way to set the default would be cool, but might open up a can of worms. > > --RDM > I'm a little torn between being alarmed at this and agreeing with it. I think if this is done there should be an TTW interface in ZCatalog to switch between AND and OR as the default. That would be the best solution IMHO. Also a _documented_ way to switch it in Catalog as well. My $0.02 -- | Casey Duncan | Kaivo, Inc. | [EMAIL PROTECTED] `--> ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
