Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Collector] Strange reject policy
Ken Manheimer wrote: All the actions are verbs, won't fix is not a verb. Do we have to be this pedantic? Wont' fix says what it does, it's close enough to verb usage for me: I won't fix that verb the more clearly indicates the result is won't fix? (While the distinction between refuse and reject is subtle, reject distinctly implies to me a defect in the request, while refuse does not.) Yeah, but refuse doesn't have any logical associate with the won't fix state for me, so it's a very unintuitive name... cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Collector] Strange reject policy
Ken Manheimer wrote: How is that better than what i implemented, Refuse? (Or maybe you missed that, since it's not in the excerpt context?) As the discussion has proceeded i'm becoming more convinced that refuse is fine... ...and I'm more convinced that wont fix is better. This is what SourceForge does, iirc ;-) Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Collector] Strange reject policy
Ken Manheimer wrote: Done. The piece you were missing is that the categories are actually states in the collector_issue_workflow. I added a Wontfix state and a refuse transition (bringing to a total of three the transitions by which issues are dodged:), and hooked them into the existing lattice. Yay! Does this mean we have a fully functional wont fix state now? This was easy. Other issues with our collector/issue-handling process are not so easy (particularly the security controversy). I'm going to try to take some responsibility for getting attention on those issues, since i have a bit of between-deadlines breathing space. Cool. Some kind of policy that we can point new-issue-resolvers at to clarify what should be rejected/accepted/wont-fix'ed would be really handy... Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Collector] Strange reject policy
Chris Withers wrote: Ken Manheimer wrote: Done. The piece you were missing is that the categories are actually states in the collector_issue_workflow. I added a Wontfix state and a refuse transition (bringing to a total of three the transitions by which issues are dodged:), and hooked them into the existing lattice. Yay! Does this mean we have a fully functional wont fix state now? It does appear to, woohoo! Can we change the action name from Refuse to Won't Fix? I took a while to find it... Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Collector] Strange reject policy
--On Donnerstag, 6. Mai 2004 12:37 Uhr +0100 Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ken Manheimer wrote: Done. The piece you were missing is that the categories are actually states in the collector_issue_workflow. I added a Wontfix state and a refuse transition (bringing to a total of three the transitions by which issues are dodged:), and hooked them into the existing lattice. Yay! Does this mean we have a fully functional wont fix state now? A state we_can_live_with_that would be fine as well :-) -aj ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Collector] Strange reject policy
On Thu, 6 May 2004, Chris Withers wrote: Chris Withers wrote: Yay! Does this mean we have a fully functional wont fix state now? It does appear to, woohoo! Can we change the action name from Refuse to Won't Fix? I took a while to find it... All the actions are verbs, won't fix is not a verb. Can you suggest a verb the more clearly indicates the result is won't fix? (While the distinction between refuse and reject is subtle, reject distinctly implies to me a defect in the request, while refuse does not.) I'm hoping the difference is clear enough to be mnemonic, once you get it, at least. One small thing i think would be a big help would be to include html titles on each action so that browser mouse-over help bubbles would indicate the effect of each action. I don't even recall whether there's any help for the issue-followup form, but some text there could also be um helpful. (Patches appreciated.) Ken ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Collector] Strange reject policy
On Thu, 6 May 2004, Andreas Jung wrote: --On Donnerstag, 6. Mai 2004 12:37 Uhr +0100 Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ken Manheimer wrote: Done. The piece you were missing is that the categories are actually states in the collector_issue_workflow. I added a Wontfix state and a refuse transition (bringing to a total of three the transitions by which issues are dodged:), and hooked them into the existing lattice. Yay! Does this mean we have a fully functional wont fix state now? A state we_can_live_with_that would be fine as well :-) That's either Reject or Defer with We can live with that (/for now). body. I can envision a little action qualifier text box, where the supporter can put in a brief message that describes the reason for their action. It would (in my fantasy vision) have an accompanying select box that is populated with the catalog-collected uniqueValuesFor() for that action. (Javascript would jam the values in the select box when the supporter picks an action, from the selections for all the available actions prepopulated in a hidden field). This way the supporter could add a new reason, if none of the conventional (already-in-use) ones suit. While i love this prospect - fits my ideal of adaptive collaboration - i'm not sure the extra precision outweighs the extra complexity - and who has time to implement this, anyway?-) Ken ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Collector] Strange reject policy
From: Ken Manheimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] All the actions are verbs, won't fix is not a verb. Can you suggest a verb the more clearly indicates the result is won't fix? Tough one... Live with Ignore Keep this bug as is Zenify Featurize (as in This is not a bug, it's a feature) Shove under carpet Forget Procrastinate Pretend to be deaf Hmm... ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Collector] Strange reject policy
On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 11:56, Lennart Regebro wrote: From: Ken Manheimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] All the actions are verbs, won't fix is not a verb. Can you suggest a verb the more clearly indicates the result is won't fix? Tough one... Live with Ignore Keep this bug as is Zenify Featurize (as in This is not a bug, it's a feature) Shove under carpet Forget Procrastinate Pretend to be deaf How about Refuse to fix? Cheers, leo -- Ideas don't stay in some minds very long because they don't like solitary confinement. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Collector] Strange reject policy
On Thu, May 06, 2004 at 04:56:42PM +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote: Featurize (as in This is not a bug, it's a feature) That's my favorite bug-closing technique! Closed works pretty well for that one, though in order to really justify it I feel compelled to add comments, docstrings, and/or help text noting the bug^H^H^Hfeature. -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Collector] Strange reject policy
Or maybe Deny as a action? Sounds less angry than reject and refuse. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Collector] Strange reject policy
Ken Manheimer wrote: All the actions are verbs, won't fix is not a verb. How about 'bikeshed' ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
RE: [Zope-dev] Re: [Collector] Strange reject policy
[Ken Manheimer] All the actions are verbs, won't fix is not a verb. Can you suggest a verb the more clearly indicates the result is won't fix? Sorry, I got lost on the first sentence: what difference does it make to anything whether they're verbs, adjectives, a mix, ...? They're all just cryptically abbreviated answers to the question what do you want to do with this report?. We want to resolve it. Sorry, we want to reject it. Sorry, but while it is arguably a bug, we won't fix it. If someone claims they can't understand what won't fix means, I'll be sympathetic. Until then, won't fix sounds perfect to me. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Collector] Strange reject policy
On Thu, 6 May 2004, Lennart Regebro wrote: From: Ken Manheimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] All the actions are verbs, won't fix is not a verb. Can you suggest a verb the more clearly indicates the result is won't fix? Tough one... Live with Ignore Keep this bug as is Zenify Featurize (as in This is not a bug, it's a feature) Shove under carpet Forget Procrastinate Pretend to be deaf For any of these that you were suggesting in earnest - i think refuse is more direct. (I would be tempted by one that went, la la la i'm not listening i can't hear you even though it isn't a verb, and it'd make the form twice as wide...-) Ken ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Collector] Strange reject policy
On Thu, 6 May 2004, Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote: On Thu, 2004-05-06 at 11:56, Lennart Regebro wrote: From: Ken Manheimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] All the actions are verbs, won't fix is not a verb. Can you suggest a verb the more clearly indicates the result is won't fix? Tough one... Live with Ignore Keep this bug as is Zenify Featurize (as in This is not a bug, it's a feature) Shove under carpet Forget Procrastinate Pretend to be deaf How about Refuse to fix? How is that better than what i implemented, Refuse? (Or maybe you missed that, since it's not in the excerpt context?) As the discussion has proceeded i'm becoming more convinced that refuse is fine... Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Collector] Strange reject policy
On Thu, 6 May 2004, Lennart Regebro wrote: Or maybe Deny as a action? Sounds less angry than reject and refuse. What's being denied - the request to fix the bug, or the validity of the bug report? Refuse suggests only that we are refusing to fix the bug, there's no implication that the bug request is inaccurate. (As a noun, refuse has the connotation of garbage, but there's no tinge of that when used as a verb.) Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Collector] Strange reject policy
Chris McDonough [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think there needs to be another category named wontfix that doesn't imply that it will ever be fixed like deferred seems to. This category should also be selected in the default search settings. Later, Chris McDonough wrote: On Fri, 2004-04-30 at 13:59, Casey Duncan wrote: I volunteer Chris to implement it ;^) Just tried. I thought it was just a setting in the ZMI, but it's not. :-( Someone go get Ken!! ;-) :-) Done. The piece you were missing is that the categories are actually states in the collector_issue_workflow. I added a Wontfix state and a refuse transition (bringing to a total of three the transitions by which issues are dodged:), and hooked them into the existing lattice. This was easy. Other issues with our collector/issue-handling process are not so easy (particularly the security controversy). I'm going to try to take some responsibility for getting attention on those issues, since i have a bit of between-deadlines breathing space. Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Collector] Strange reject policy
On Fri, 2004-04-30 at 13:43, Casey Duncan wrote: In retrospect I probably should have just marked it as deferred rather than rejected, the idea was more to provoke action (which I did) then to reject it as not-a-bug. I think there needs to be another category named wontfix that doesn't imply that it will ever be fixed like deferred seems to. This category should also be selected in the default search settings. - C ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
RE: [Zope-dev] Re: [Collector] Strange reject policy
[Chris McDonough] I think there needs to be another category named wontfix that doesn't imply that it will ever be fixed like deferred seems to. This category should also be selected in the default search settings. +1. The Python bug tracker has a WontFix, and it's proved valuable in practice to distinguish that from fixed and rejected. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )