Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?!

2004-05-07 Thread Alex V. Koval
Hi, On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:04:34 +0200, Maik Jablonski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zope2 isn't maintained very well anymore due to limited ressources(bug fixes, documentation, see mail from Andreas), but Zope3 isn'tproduction ready at all. So if you talk to people making the

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?!

2004-05-07 Thread Andreas Jung
--On Freitag, 7. Mai 2004 19:26 Uhr +0300 Alex V. Koval [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just need to know if anybody else interested into better look of zope.org site? And how this could be done... Basically by volunteering to help out with the one or the task. See http://www.zope.org/About/ how to

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-28 Thread Dieter Maurer
Paul Winkler wrote at 2004-4-26 17:45 -0400: On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 07:47:39PM +0200, Dieter Maurer wrote: Our minimal tool usage is probably: Actions, Membership, Skins, Types, Workflow. I'm curious... do you use these with sites that are not in any other way based on CMFCore/CMFDefault ?

RE: [Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-26 Thread Tim Peters
[Max M, tests a zip file of .pyd files in Zope3, on Windows] I finally got around to testing this, and it works *exactly* as I hoped. I downloaded Z3 from CVS, and Tim's zip file. I unpacked the zip file into the Z3 directory, and it started the first time. Yippee! That's what I expected,

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-26 Thread Dieter Maurer
Tres Seaver wrote at 2004-4-26 11:46 -0400: Martijn Faassen wrote: Dieter Maurer wrote: ... We use SkinsTool, ActionsTool and DCWorkflow a lot, MembershipTool sometimes and most other tools not at all. Okay, point taken. :) How much do the tools listed interdepend on each other?

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-26 Thread Paul Winkler
On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 07:47:39PM +0200, Dieter Maurer wrote: Our minimal tool usage is probably: Actions, Membership, Skins, Types, Workflow. I'm curious... do you use these with sites that are not in any other way based on CMFCore/CMFDefault ? -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look!

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-22 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote: Nobody is willing to contribute. ZC agreed to change zope.org to Plone so more community members can contribute. But noone has stepped up; that's very sad. Sorry, but I think you'll find several people stepped up, and ZC slapped them in the face with a big fat legal

RE: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-22 Thread Tim Peters
[Max M] Well, yeah. I installed cygwin and all the devolpment tools. About 800 Megs. I could have sorted it, but I wouldn't risk missing libraries, tools etc. and harddisk is cheap. Same here (although my old laptop doesn't have enough disk space remaining to download the whole thing).

RE: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-22 Thread Tim Peters
[Tim Peters] ... No way to tell without trying. I don't know whether you're building Zope2 or Zope3, but since this is the zope-dev list I assume the former. Try http://zope.org/Members/tim_one/Zope2-20040422.zip/file_view and let us know what happens! As the comment there says,

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-22 Thread Dieter Maurer
Jim Fulton wrote at 2004-4-21 11:39 -0400: Andreas Jung wrote: ... I am sure that more are willing to contribute more than at the moment. Great! Where are they? I, for example, would but I am scared away by the required promise to defend ZC against any potential patent claim related to my

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-22 Thread Dieter Maurer
Martijn Faassen wrote at 2004-4-21 19:42 +0200: Stephan Richter wrote: Nobody is willing to contribute. ZC agreed to change zope.org to Plone so more community members can contribute. But noone has stepped up; that's very sad. I believe part of the blockage is because contributors have to

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-21 Thread Stephan Richter
Hi, the points I snipped I agree with and/or have no new input for. On Wednesday 21 April 2004 05:36, Andreas Jung wrote: The reasons for this situation from my prospective: - Lots of Z2 people are working now on Plone projects. Plone currently attracts more people because the

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?!

2004-04-21 Thread robert rottermann
will not be able to participate easily on the academic Zope3 train. The technic freaks who modell Zope3 are usually not application developers, which have to build and run working applications for real human users. That's both insulting and incorrect. Many of the leaders of the Zope 2

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-21 Thread Stephan Richter
On Wednesday 21 April 2004 10:40, Max M wrote: I normally don't develop in c. So I don't have Visual Studion installed. You can also use cygwin. I have downloaded the milestones and tried them out. But then I read about this and that *geddon, and think well guess I should wait for another

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-21 Thread Terry Hancock
On Wednesday 21 April 2004 09:40 am, Max M wrote: Stephan Richter wrote: However, we are getting the first alpha out by the end of the month. Hopefully, by end of May we will have finished the X3.0 to-do list and will release the beta. At this point the API will freeze and application

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?!

2004-04-21 Thread Martijn Faassen
Jim Fulton wrote: I'm surprised to read this. Could you be more specific about your concerns? Did you read Andreas Jung's mail? He was pretty specific, but I had to hunt around as in my mailreader his reply had broken the thread. Regards, Martijn ___

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?!

2004-04-21 Thread Martin Kretschmar
Hello, Jim, we native german speakers tend to be much more direct and phrase dings more bluntly the you americans do. In german I read Maik's statement as a strong opinion but never as an insult. Since I am the one who asked Mike to speak up I would feel bad if it created any bad

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-21 Thread Jamie Heilman
Casey Duncan wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:36:31 +0200 Andreas Jung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some remarks from my side as a Zope2 core developer on this issue: The Z2 community and development is currently at a bad point: - very few people are contributing to the Z2 in terms of

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?!

2004-04-21 Thread Jim Fulton
robert rottermann wrote: will not be able to participate easily on the academic Zope3 train. The technic freaks who modell Zope3 are usually not application developers, which have to build and run working applications for real human users. That's both insulting and incorrect. Many of the

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-21 Thread Paul Winkler
On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 10:41:27AM -0400, Casey Duncan wrote: I agree that bugs deserve more attention. We need to have more bug days. I meant to suggest a date last week, but I got diverted. How would people feel about next Thursday, April 29? +1 -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-21 Thread Martijn Faassen
Stephan Richter wrote: Nobody is willing to contribute. ZC agreed to change zope.org to Plone so more community members can contribute. But noone has stepped up; that's very sad. I believe part of the blockage is because contributors have to sign far more than just a simple CVS contributor's

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-21 Thread Martijn Faassen
Casey Duncan wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:36:31 +0200 Andreas Jung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - very few people are willing to contribute to documentation On a bright note, I think zopewiki.org could change that. It *greatly* lowers the bar on contributing substantive docs for Zope. I would

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-21 Thread Jamie Heilman
Jim Fulton wrote: Oh, and about Maik's comment that ZC is the bottleneck in Z2 dev--Jim, I think it was Andreas Ah, you're right, oh well apart from who said it... you might not agree with Maik, but hidden security bugs over a year old aren't something the rest of the community can do

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-21 Thread Andreas Jung
--On Mittwoch, 21. April 2004 10:41 Uhr -0400 Casey Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On a bright note, I think zopewiki.org could change that. It *greatly* lowers the bar on contributing substantive docs for Zope. I would implore all of you (as in you, the reader of this message, yes you!) to go

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-21 Thread Lennart Regebro
From: Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Year checkins people 2002 7090 33 2003 5276 34 2004 1103 24 # First 3 1/2 months There is some decline, as one would expect in a mature product. Also, I expect most people is like me. I only fix bugs if they bite me, and I understand them OR

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-21 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 10:41:27AM -0400, Casey Duncan wrote: I agree that bugs deserve more attention. We need to have more bug days. I meant to suggest a date last week, but I got diverted. How would people feel about next Thursday, April 29? Stop feeling and do it! No, I can't join, because

RE: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-21 Thread Tim Peters
[Max M] Or perhaps an automated nightly Windows build. [Stephan Richter] We have talked about it many times before, but simply lack the bandwidth. Maybe you could provide this for Cygwin? [Max M] Argh ... that wasn't fair. Ok I will try and find some time to look into it. A problem is

RE: [Zope-dev] Re: The bleak Future of Zope?

2004-04-21 Thread Sandor Palfy
Maybe this is (still) relevant to building Zope under Cygwin, maybe not: http://www.zope.org/Members/dgeorgieff/howto_zope_cvs_on_cygwin/index_ht ml Python release23-maint and Zope 2.7 just builds fine on cygwin with the usual ./configure, make, make install sequence. Regards, Sandor