Re: [Zope-dev] ZPatterns design questions

2000-10-08 Thread Phillip J. Eby
At 12:50 PM 10/7/00 -0700, Michael Bernstein wrote: "Phillip J. Eby" wrote: Presentation logic lives with an object's class, and deals with what that object knows about presenting itself. UI implementation is "glue" presentation that lives in a Specialist for use by any object that needs to

Re: [Zope-dev] ZPatterns design questions

2000-10-07 Thread Michael Bernstein
"Phillip J. Eby" wrote: How (and why) do you distinguish between UI implementation and presentation logic? Presentation logic lives with an object's class, and deals with what that object knows about presenting itself. UI implementation is "glue" presentation that lives in a Specialist

Re: [Zope-dev] ZPatterns design questions

2000-10-07 Thread Michael Bernstein
Steve Spicklemire wrote: - How does this product (simple though it is) exemplify the RIPP approach? pje I'm not sure that you can say it *exemplifies* the RIPP pje approach, although it certainly goes along with that pje approach. My hesitation is mainly that it

Re: [Zope-dev] ZPatterns design questions

2000-10-06 Thread Steve Spicklemire
I should point out a couple of things that might not be obvious (that I noticed only on a second 'read' of the explaination): 1) getPersistentItemIds() can be a pain. dtml-in "defaultRack.getPersistentItemIDs()" sort is straightforward enough... but what if I don't care if they are sorted, or

Re: [Zope-dev] ZPatterns design questions

2000-10-06 Thread Steve Spicklemire
Ack.. sorry... I was making little changes last night to make sure the ZClass was completely consistent with my explaination, and to make sure I could start 'from scratch'. I created a 'new' ZClass, and a 'new' rack. This confused the 'old' Rack. (I didn't update the ToDoManager.zexp, so if you

Re: [Zope-dev] ZPatterns design questions

2000-10-06 Thread Michael Bernstein
Steve Spicklemire wrote: Ack.. sorry... I was making little changes last night to make sure the ZClass was completely consistent with my explaination, and to make sure I could start 'from scratch'. Ok, I just got through stepping through the walkthrough. Thanks! That *was* a really simple

Re: [Zope-dev] ZPatterns design questions

2000-10-06 Thread Phillip J. Eby
At 07:59 AM 10/5/00 -0700, Michael Bernstein wrote: "Phillip J. Eby" wrote: Domain logic: methods which implement the basic behavior of an object, by manipulating its attributes and by calling methods on itself or other objects. (Including delegation to a Specialist, its own or another.)

Re: [Zope-dev] ZPatterns design questions

2000-10-06 Thread Phillip J. Eby
At 03:44 PM 10/6/00 -0500, Michael Bernstein wrote: Steve Spicklemire wrote: Ack.. sorry... I was making little changes last night to make sure the ZClass was completely consistent with my explaination, and to make sure I could start 'from scratch'. Ok, I just got through stepping through

Re: [Zope-dev] ZPatterns design questions

2000-10-06 Thread Steve Spicklemire
"pje" == Phillip J Eby [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: - Propertysheets: You don't expressly say that Shared needs to be a 'Common Instance Property Sheet'. pje Actually, if it's intended to be shared across all instances, pje there seems to me to be little reason to have it in

Re: [Zope-dev] ZPatterns design questions

2000-10-05 Thread Phillip J. Eby
At 09:49 PM 10/4/00 -0700, Michael Bernstein wrote: While I wouldn't say that there has been an actual 'paradigm shift' between the original RIPP presentation and ZPatterns, What's happened is that there's been a lot of "implementation shift". The goals of RIPP have never changed, but they are

Re: [Zope-dev] ZPatterns design questions

2000-10-05 Thread Michael Bernstein
"Phillip J. Eby" wrote: At 09:49 PM 10/4/00 -0700, Michael Bernstein wrote: While I wouldn't say that there has been an actual 'paradigm shift' between the original RIPP presentation and ZPatterns, What's happened is that there's been a lot of "implementation shift". The goals of RIPP

Re: [Zope-dev] ZPatterns design questions

2000-10-05 Thread Steve Spicklemire
OK.. here's the dumbest example I could cook up. It was my first experiment with ZPatterns in July of last summer. It was based on a really early release, I don't remember which, but it seems to work with the latest.. (I just barely testted it... ) Load the Product ToDoProducts.zexp into the

Re: [Zope-dev] ZPatterns design questions

2000-10-05 Thread Steve Spicklemire
Ack.. of course I forgot to test creating new instances there was a snippet of code for editing and creating that didn't work with the new propertysheet stuff. I fixed it just now... so it really works. ;-) -steve "Steve" == Steve Spicklemire [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Steve OK..

Re: [Zope-dev] ZPatterns design questions

2000-10-05 Thread Michael Bernstein
Steve Spicklemire wrote: Ack.. of course I forgot to test creating new instances there was a snippet of code for editing and creating that didn't work with the new propertysheet stuff. I fixed it just now... so it really works. ;-) I didn't get a chance to play with this today, but

Re: [Zope-dev] ZPatterns design questions

2000-10-05 Thread Steve Spicklemire
Again.. this is an embarrassingly trivial example.. but here it goes: First of all there is a ZClass 'ToDoClass'. It needs to have a base class of ZPatterns:DataSkin. You don't need constructor methods, but I don't think they hurt anything if you leave them in. The ToDo needs methods:

Re: [Zope-dev] ZPatterns design questions

2000-10-05 Thread Michael Bernstein
Steve Spicklemire wrote: Again.. this is an embarrassingly trivial example.. but here it goes: [snip details] That's it. I can't imagine anything simpler. ;-) Really! Thanks, I'll be trying this out at work tomorrow. Michael Bernstein. ___

Re: [Zope-dev] ZPatterns design questions

2000-10-04 Thread Michael Bernstein
"Phillip J. Eby" wrote: Ty and I use ZClasses because you can see your changes much more quickly than if you have to restart Zope. Basing your ZClasses on DataSkin makes the limitations pretty much disappear, from our point of view, because we never put any actual "implementation" code in

Re: [Zope-dev] ZPatterns design questions

2000-10-03 Thread Phillip J. Eby
At 01:49 PM 10/3/00 -0700, John Eikenberry wrote: First, some context... I'm working on a new data storage system for a related set of (primarily) Zope sites. The data will be kept in ZODB and mirrored out to a RDB (MySQL) to provide read-only access to some non-zope stuff. One other thing to

Re: [Zope-dev] ZPatterns design questions

2000-10-03 Thread John Eikenberry
Phillip J. Eby wrote: If I can offer a suggestion... Please... It sounds to me like you don't need SheetProviders at all, if you effectively define the property sheets as part of your class, and make the attributes direct attributes on the DataSkin. You then need only set Ok, I'm