Re: [Zope-dev] deprecate http://download.zope.org/distribution
Hey, On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 12:12 PM, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martijn Faassen wrote: It's clearly the case that people who are reading this thread know how to avoid download.zope.org. The people who are not reading this thread just get tough luck from the Zope community when their software doesn't work anymore. No, that's not quite what I said. I'm pretty sure if someone came to any Zope list and said download.zope.org gives me errors the nthey'd get the help they need. They wouldn't, as they'd need to figure out which versions of which packages that they depend on that are on download.zope.org should be replaced with what other versions. That can be quite a list and costs even experts a quite few hours to work through - we've done this with Grok. Someone gettign subtle bugs because http://download.zope.org/distribution still exists but is filled with cruft may well not. I'm talking about a scenario where you have *existing* software that has been tested to work, and we suddenly break it by shutting down the URL. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] deprecate http://download.zope.org/distribution
Martijn Faassen wrote: It's clearly the case that people who are reading this thread know how to avoid download.zope.org. The people who are not reading this thread just get tough luck from the Zope community when their software doesn't work anymore. No, that's not quite what I said. I'm pretty sure if someone came to any Zope list and said download.zope.org gives me errors the nthey'd get the help they need. Someone gettign subtle bugs because http://download.zope.org/distribution still exists but is filled with cruft may well not. cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] deprecate http://download.zope.org/distribution
Tres Seaver wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martijn Faassen wrote: [snip] -1 to removing it. There is actually code out there that explicitly relies on versions of packages that can only be found in this place. Now of course that should be fixed, but even if it was fixed, that doesn't mean we should make older versions uninstallable. Anybody who really needs such an egg should be competent to rebuild it from SVN (since the revision ID or tag is implied by the name), and should certainly be willing to host that egg in a private index / location for their project: in fact, they should take this discussion as notice to copy the egg to such a location *now*. I disagree. If we released a version of Grok, say, back in the day that relied on an egg that's in that location, and someone built an application back in the day that relies on that version of Grok, and then they wrote a nice INSTALL.txt that said to the sysadmin how to install that application, it'll break. That sysadmin won't be competent enough and certainly won't be following this discussion. That old location was not great release management by the Zope project. Just removing it is really really bad release management by the Zope project. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] deprecate http://download.zope.org/distribution
Martijn Faassen wrote: If we released a version of Grok, say, back in the day that relied on an egg that's in that location, and someone built an application back in the day that relies on that version of Grok, and then they wrote a nice INSTALL.txt that said to the sysadmin how to install that application, it'll break. I call tough luck on that. The world moves on, stuff degrades and eventually stops working. dwonload.zope.org is reaching such a time ;-) The red-herring effect outweighs what you're talking about. It also goes to show that apps should really be bundled as source installations or have their own private egg repositories if you want them to be installable forever. What happens when PyPI goes away in favour of the-next-great-thing? If you're more paranoid, apps should be built as VM images that don't even rely on egg downloads ;-) cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] deprecate http://download.zope.org/distribution
Hey, On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 10:40 PM, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martijn Faassen wrote: If we released a version of Grok, say, back in the day that relied on an egg that's in that location, and someone built an application back in the day that relies on that version of Grok, and then they wrote a nice INSTALL.txt that said to the sysadmin how to install that application, it'll break. I call tough luck on that. The world moves on, stuff degrades and eventually stops working. dwonload.zope.org is reaching such a time ;-) It's clearly the case that people who are reading this thread know how to avoid download.zope.org. The people who are not reading this thread just get tough luck from the Zope community when their software doesn't work anymore. They're left to find this thread. I think that's one reason the Zope community has so much trouble growing. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] deprecate http://download.zope.org/distribution
Tres Seaver wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Christian Zagrodnick wrote: On 2008-11-12 23:41:55 +0100, Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: http://download.zope.org/distribution was set up as a place to publish distributions while we were learning about setuptools, eggs, and pypi. I think now, we're all using PyPI (or local repositories). I'd like to deprecate this site, making it read-only for now, but eventually removing it. Yeah, make it read only. But I'd just leave it there. We have the policy of not removing eggs which are out there, so I suggest leaving the eggs there. - -1: many of the eggs that are there should never have been released at all in a public repository: they are attractive nuisances. +1 for removing the bear trap ASAP. -1 to removing it. There is actually code out there that explicitly relies on versions of packages that can only be found in this place. Now of course that should be fixed, but even if it was fixed, that doesn't mean we should make older versions uninstallable. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] deprecate http://download.zope.org/distribution
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martijn Faassen wrote: Tres Seaver wrote: Christian Zagrodnick wrote: On 2008-11-12 23:41:55 +0100, Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: http://download.zope.org/distribution was set up as a place to publish distributions while we were learning about setuptools, eggs, and pypi. I think now, we're all using PyPI (or local repositories). I'd like to deprecate this site, making it read-only for now, but eventually removing it. Yeah, make it read only. But I'd just leave it there. We have the policy of not removing eggs which are out there, so I suggest leaving the eggs there. - -1: many of the eggs that are there should never have been released at all in a public repository: they are attractive nuisances. +1 for removing the bear trap ASAP. -1 to removing it. There is actually code out there that explicitly relies on versions of packages that can only be found in this place. Now of course that should be fixed, but even if it was fixed, that doesn't mean we should make older versions uninstallable. Anybody who really needs such an egg should be competent to rebuild it from SVN (since the revision ID or tag is implied by the name), and should certainly be willing to host that egg in a private index / location for their project: in fact, they should take this discussion as notice to copy the egg to such a location *now*. Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJJEHl+gerLs4ltQ4RAuRyAJ96Ef+vGVgsdGPikGY7Fkcx9vZfawCgzbki B8n3mTpM2YE7vUXmIg/YBFo= =c7LI -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] deprecate http://download.zope.org/distribution
Previously Tres Seaver wrote: Anybody who really needs such an egg should be competent to rebuild it from SVN (since the revision ID or tag is implied by the name), and should certainly be willing to host that egg in a private index / location for their project: in fact, they should take this discussion as notice to copy the egg to such a location *now*. download.zope.org/distribution/ appears to be the only location for the PILwoTK egg. Is there another place where one can get that? Wichert. -- Wichert Akkerman [EMAIL PROTECTED]It is simple to make things. http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] deprecate http://download.zope.org/distribution
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously Tres Seaver wrote: Anybody who really needs such an egg should be competent to rebuild it from SVN (since the revision ID or tag is implied by the name), and should certainly be willing to host that egg in a private index / location for their project: in fact, they should take this discussion as notice to copy the egg to such a location *now*. download.zope.org/distribution/ appears to be the only location for the PILwoTK egg. Is there another place where one can get that? One might download it and put it in ones own index. For instance, the repoze distributino server provides a variantion: a setuptools-friendly distribution: http://dist.repoze.org/PIL-1.1.6.tar.gz (and the various indexes on that server). Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJJMeI+gerLs4ltQ4RAjK2AKDOls2ly3flciVaZAIp3fa8MiuDlQCfRB/+ sH6UdjUbROFi0aEBQ6BzqDw= =0diH -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] deprecate http://download.zope.org/distribution
On 2008-11-12 23:41:55 +0100, Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: http://download.zope.org/distribution was set up as a place to publish distributions while we were learning about setuptools, eggs, and pypi. I think now, we're all using PyPI (or local repositories). I'd like to deprecate this site, making it read-only for now, but eventually removing it. Yeah, make it read only. But I'd just leave it there. We have the policy of not removing eggs which are out there, so I suggest leaving the eggs there. -- Christian Zagrodnick · [EMAIL PROTECTED] gocept gmbh co. kg · forsterstraße 29 · 06112 halle (saale) · germany http://gocept.com · tel +49 345 1229889 4 · fax +49 345 1229889 1 Zope and Plone consulting and development ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] deprecate http://download.zope.org/distribution
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Christian Zagrodnick wrote: On 2008-11-12 23:41:55 +0100, Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: http://download.zope.org/distribution was set up as a place to publish distributions while we were learning about setuptools, eggs, and pypi. I think now, we're all using PyPI (or local repositories). I'd like to deprecate this site, making it read-only for now, but eventually removing it. Yeah, make it read only. But I'd just leave it there. We have the policy of not removing eggs which are out there, so I suggest leaving the eggs there. - -1: many of the eggs that are there should never have been released at all in a public repository: they are attractive nuisances. +1 for removing the bear trap ASAP. Ters. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJHanu+gerLs4ltQ4RAjZAAJ4m2TbGTrXLj3TG1w6q/fR36ALfuACfUZ4y G9+ab43dG5M9mFJHwvS2Www= =zFdU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] deprecate http://download.zope.org/distribution
On 14 Nov 2008, at 16:40, Tres Seaver wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Christian Zagrodnick wrote: On 2008-11-12 23:41:55 +0100, Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: http://download.zope.org/distribution was set up as a place to publish distributions while we were learning about setuptools, eggs, and pypi. I think now, we're all using PyPI (or local repositories). I'd like to deprecate this site, making it read-only for now, but eventually removing it. Yeah, make it read only. But I'd just leave it there. We have the policy of not removing eggs which are out there, so I suggest leaving the eggs there. - -1: many of the eggs that are there should never have been released at all in a public repository: they are attractive nuisances. +1 for removing the bear trap ASAP. Might be worth putting a takedown message in place of the files. There are many incoming links --r. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] deprecate http://download.zope.org/distribution
On Wed, 2008-11-12 at 17:41 -0500, Jim Fulton wrote: http://download.zope.org/distribution was set up as a place to publish distributions while we were learning about setuptools, eggs, and pypi. I think now, we're all using PyPI (or local repositories). I'd like to deprecate this site, making it read-only for now, but eventually removing it. +1 -- Christian Theune · [EMAIL PROTECTED] gocept gmbh co. kg · forsterstraße 29 · 06112 halle (saale) · germany http://gocept.com · tel +49 345 1229889 7 · fax +49 345 1229889 1 Zope and Plone consulting and development signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] deprecate http://download.zope.org/distribution
Jim Fulton wrote: http://download.zope.org/distribution was set up as a place to publish distributions while we were learning about setuptools, eggs, and pypi. I think now, we're all using PyPI (or local repositories). I'd like to deprecate this site, making it read-only for now, but eventually removing it. +1 Hanno ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )