Re: Re: [Zope-dev] WebDav Bug? -- And some comments on how great WebDAV is ;-)
Hi Brian, that proposal sounds very good to me. Could it be enhanced in a way that we can add an add automatic extension when served by webdav. What I mean by that is that an object without extension is seen as having say .html appended to it when it is access by webdav. So we can use all these extension based web authoring tools without changing the python way of doing things. Robert - Original Message - From: Brian Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Joachim Werner [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 10:47 PM Subject: RE: Re: [Zope-dev] WebDav Bug? -- And some comments on how great WebDAV is ;-) Some additional issues when using the CMF: - There is this really great idea that you can create a news item by just posting a MyNews.news file to your Member folder. The first problem is that Word does not let you save an HTML file as .news, so we changed the rules in CMF and upload news_MyNews.htm files FYI - I have a proposal that could also be used to address this. It would be great to get some feedback on it: http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/ObjectTypeAssociationAndDeathToI ndexHtml Brian Lloyd[EMAIL PROTECTED] Zope Corporation www.zope.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
RE: Re: [Zope-dev] WebDav Bug? -- And some comments on how great WebDAV is ;-)
Hi Brian, that proposal sounds very good to me. Could it be enhanced in a way that we can add an add automatic extension when served by webdav. What I mean by that is that an object without extension is seen as having say .html appended to it when it is access by webdav. So we can use all these extension based web authoring tools without changing the python way of doing things. This is an idea that has been kicking around for a while - I am somewhat resistant to it because I have been trying hard to fight for less magic in Zope. It is very hard to implement DWIM (Do What I Mean) and have it do the right thing in all situations - it often turns out to be fragile and easily broken as the system evolves. That's not to say that we absolutely wouldn't do it - but there are enough internal ramifications and questions to be answered that I don't see how this would get done by 2.5. I'd be happy to see a proposal that addresses how deeply that magic would have to affect other parts of the system (as DAV support is largely implemented on top of other APIs) and the scope of the behavior and effort (I would expect that if DAV acted that way, then FTP should too). soapbox IMHO, I'd rather see the things that make using file extensions a pain in the first place go away. The death to index_html part of my proposal is a first step toward that. If web-oriented tools expect to be able to use file extensions, then Zope needs to do what people expect. If people trying to start using Zope are immediately stymied by bizarre issues with something that they take so for granted (file extensions), they'll never get far enough to see all of the things that are great about Zope. /soapbox Brian Lloyd[EMAIL PROTECTED] Zope Corporation www.zope.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Re: [Zope-dev] WebDav Bug? -- And some comments on how great WebDAV is ;-)
- Original Message - From: Brian Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Robert Rottermann [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Joachim Werner [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 10:49 AM Subject: RE: Re: [Zope-dev] WebDav Bug? -- And some comments on how great WebDAV is ;-) Hi Brian, that proposal sounds very good to me. Could it be enhanced in a way that we can add an add automatic extension when served by webdav. What I mean by that is that an object without extension is seen as having say .html appended to it when it is access by webdav. So we can use all these extension based web authoring tools without changing the python way of doing things. This is an idea that has been kicking around for a while - I am somewhat resistant to it because I have been trying hard to fight for less magic in Zope. It is very hard to implement DWIM (Do What I Mean) and have it do the right thing in all situations - it often turns out to be fragile and easily broken as the system evolves. Less magic is good. Longer term, it seems like this can be addressed by the Component architecture, can't it? Ideally the WebDAV Presentation Component would be given some clues about how to represent the object in WebDAV. Or maybe there will be a selection of WebDAV components that provide a variety of ways to deal with it. soapbox IMHO, I'd rather see the things that make using file extensions a pain in the first place go away. The death to index_html part of my proposal is a first step toward that. If web-oriented tools expect to be able to use file extensions, then Zope needs to do what people expect. ...while still balancing the desire to easily access objects and methods via Python. Tricky. Kevin ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: Re: [Zope-dev] WebDav Bug? -- And some comments on how great WebDAV is ;-)
Question : When I access to my folder by webdav protocol (win98 webfolder), I can list the folder content, but when I want to access to a file inside, Zope asked to me another authentification, then I can access to my file (wordd file (.doc)) but only in read only mode. This seems to be a problem with the locking Office 2000 programs want to do. With Zope 2.4.1 this should work. But we also found a couple of problems (most of them probably not on Zope's end - but MS unfortunately still SETS some of the real-life standards ...): - If you use lower-case-only or upper-case-only names, that might be a problem, as Windows (98, NT/2000/XP should do better) assumes that both are the same (some DOS legacy mode I guess) - You can't rename files via the Web Folder feature. With the WebDrive product (which is commercial) we CAN rename files, but it is somewhat unstable and does not do SSL under Win98 - Uploads might freeze the client system (it does not really crash, just block for a while) Some additional issues when using the CMF: - There is this really great idea that you can create a news item by just posting a MyNews.news file to your Member folder. The first problem is that Word does not let you save an HTML file as .news, so we changed the rules in CMF and upload news_MyNews.htm files - If the file contains empty lines, the upload won't work. Add a single space to the line, and it will work. I guess that one is a parsing bug in the CMF's PUT method WebDAV really could be a great protocol. But it has some way to go. And unfortunately many of the problems are client-side. On the Linux platform, we'd need a kio_slave implementation of WebDAV for KDE (though there is a WebDAV file system module that let's you mount a WebDAV server like NFS, I've not tested that one yet). Another nice-to-have thing would be WebDAV support in the StarOffice/OpenOffice project (and of course I want HTML PUT or WebDAV back in Mozilla's/Netscape's composer). OpenOffice does not get too much attention these days, but it uses a really great, XML-based file format. Combined with WebDAV and Zope, you would be able to do really cool things. Just one example: - draw a pie chart prototype in OpenOffice - Upload it to Zope - in Zope, dive into the XML and replace the demo values by DTML (or ZPT) variables; you might even be able to specify variables from OpenOffice directly - Users can then download dynamically generated charts from Zope (e.g. a website logfile report) - The cool thing: It's not a GIF file or so. You can take it and adjust it, put it into a presentation etc. Think of similar scenarios with spreadsheet tables or slide show presentations! With proper browser integration, the OpenOffice files could even be used to display stuff on the web! This would be something like rich HTML ... Joachim ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
RE: Re: [Zope-dev] WebDav Bug? -- And some comments on how great WebDAV is ;-)
Some additional issues when using the CMF: - There is this really great idea that you can create a news item by just posting a MyNews.news file to your Member folder. The first problem is that Word does not let you save an HTML file as .news, so we changed the rules in CMF and upload news_MyNews.htm files FYI - I have a proposal that could also be used to address this. It would be great to get some feedback on it: http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/ObjectTypeAssociationAndDeathToI ndexHtml Brian Lloyd[EMAIL PROTECTED] Zope Corporation www.zope.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
