Re: [ZWeb] Version 3

2006-03-21 Thread Chris Withers

Michael Haubenwallner wrote:

Chris Withers wrote:
  Andrew Sawyers wrote:
  Maybe we don't have login on these pages; maybe use a different url for
  'managing' the site:  manager.zope.org or something which adds in an
  additional skin which includes these macros.  Just an idea.
 
  How would normal users go about submitting news and product releases?
 
  Where would they upload the files?
 

Its been a misunderstanding. There are normal users and product releases 
in current zope.org, but that might change in the future 'zopeweb' and 
thats what Andrew was talking about in his reply.


Yeah, I'm well aware of that. But release space for software and 
addition of news is about all zope.org is currently used for. I think 
this is an important use case to cater for in the future...


cheers,

Chris

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Re: [ZWeb] Version 3

2006-03-21 Thread Jens Vagelpohl

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On 21 Mar 2006, at 07:48, Chris Withers wrote:
Yeah, I'm well aware of that. But release space for software and  
addition of news is about all zope.org is currently used for. I  
think this is an important use case to cater for in the future...


*bzz* DENIED

This might be an important use case, but it is out of the scope for  
the new zope.org setup. The new setup is specifically targeted at not  
being a free-for-all community playground anymore.


One of the reasons why the old site is getting worse every day is  
loads of outdated and sometimes plain bad documents and products that  
no one cares for anymore.


jens

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Re: [ZWeb] Version 3

2006-03-21 Thread Chris Withers

Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
This might be an important use case, but it is out of the scope for the 
new zope.org setup. The new setup is specifically targeted at not being 
a free-for-all community playground anymore.


One of the reasons why the old site is getting worse every day is loads 
of outdated and sometimes plain bad documents and products that no one 
cares for anymore.


So how are people supposed to publish news items?

Where are they supposed to release software?

How are people coming to Zope supposed to find products they want to use?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for limiting scope a lot, but if we're not 
catering for these basic needs, then what's the point of having the site 
at all?


Chris

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Re: [ZWeb] Version 3

2006-03-21 Thread Jens Vagelpohl

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On 21 Mar 2006, at 10:13, Chris Withers wrote:


Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
This might be an important use case, but it is out of the scope  
for the new zope.org setup. The new setup is specifically targeted  
at not being a free-for-all community playground anymore.
One of the reasons why the old site is getting worse every day is  
loads of outdated and sometimes plain bad documents and products  
that no one cares for anymore.


So how are people supposed to publish news items?

Where are they supposed to release software?

How are people coming to Zope supposed to find products they want  
to use?


Don't get me wrong, I'm all for limiting scope a lot, but if we're  
not catering for these basic needs, then what's the point of having  
the site at all?


Instead of re-hashing stuff for the umpteenth time, please check in  
the list archives. These discussions were held several times now.


jens

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Re: [ZWeb] Version 3

2006-03-21 Thread Lennart Regebro
On 3/21/06, Jens Vagelpohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Instead of re-hashing stuff for the umpteenth time, please check in
 the list archives. These discussions were held several times now.

Dont discuss it. Just link to the conclusion. ;-)

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Re: [ZWeb] Version 3

2006-03-21 Thread Jens Vagelpohl

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On 21 Mar 2006, at 10:25, Lennart Regebro wrote:


On 3/21/06, Jens Vagelpohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Instead of re-hashing stuff for the umpteenth time, please check in
the list archives. These discussions were held several times now.


Dont discuss it. Just link to the conclusion. ;-)


That means I would have to go search for it. I know Chris is capable  
of doing that himself :P


jens

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Re: [ZWeb] Version 3

2006-03-21 Thread Chris Withers

Jens Vagelpohl wrote:


That means I would have to go search for it. I know Chris is capable of 
doing that himself :P


Funny, I read those discussions and I don't remember any kind of agreed 
conclusion...


Chris

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Re: [ZWeb] Version 3

2006-03-21 Thread Martijn Faassen

Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:


http://www.modscape.com/zope/v3

Updated. Pretty much ready to roll. Please send along any comments.


Wow, great work! Looks nice. I agree with Brad Allen's comments about 
Zope needing to project a bit of seriousness, and this is serious with 
still enough color.


I'm a text-oriented guy so I'm really am waiting for the catchy text in 
the middle. I hope we can get this integrated for another mockup, also 
concerning subpages.


Regards,

Martijn
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Re: [ZWeb] Version 3

2006-03-20 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Mon, 2006-03-20 at 08:45 +0100, Michael Haubenwallner wrote:
 Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
  - What about the login + navbars ?
  
  Will add login as well. Not sure what you mean about navbars? The 
  navigation is up top, the black bar.
Maybe we don't have login on these pages; maybe use a different url for
'managing' the site:  manager.zope.org or something which adds in an
additional skin which includes these macros.  Just an idea.
  
 
 I meant the bar holding the object, folder, user, workflow and global 
 actions, currently displayed in a horizontal bar under the header/banner 
 block. You can't use zope.org (plone) without the actions.
It should be fairly trivial to work these in - remember, these types of
actions are not going to be for the general user populacethus
shouldn't be a main focus for his designs INMNSHO.

Andrew
 
 

 
 Michael
 

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Re: [ZWeb] Version 3

2006-03-20 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Sun, 2006-03-19 at 21:25 -0600, Brad Allen wrote:
   http://www.modscape.com/zope/v3

 
 The Zope News and Zope Products section do seem slightly drab.
 Drab is ok for documention but news stories could use just a
 little bit of zing.
 
The News and Products sections you see now are not going to be paramount
on the page when all is said and done.  We're trying to get some good
catchy text/phrases going for the home page which draws users into the
'meat' of the site.  A smaller presence of the news and products needs
to be considered.

Andrew
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Re: [ZWeb] Version 3

2006-03-20 Thread Michael Haubenwallner

Andrew Sawyers wrote:

On Mon, 2006-03-20 at 08:45 +0100, Michael Haubenwallner wrote:

Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:

- What about the login + navbars ?
Will add login as well. Not sure what you mean about navbars? The 
navigation is up top, the black bar.

Maybe we don't have login on these pages; maybe use a different url for
'managing' the site:  manager.zope.org or something which adds in an
additional skin which includes these macros.  Just an idea.
I meant the bar holding the object, folder, user, workflow and global 
actions, currently displayed in a horizontal bar under the header/banner 
block. You can't use zope.org (plone) without the actions.

It should be fairly trivial to work these in - remember, these types of
actions are not going to be for the general user populacethus
shouldn't be a main focus for his designs INMNSHO.



Understood and ok with me. Its just that we never talked about that 
solution before (i've always seen the modscape mockups as a drop-in 
replacement for the current mode of zope.org operation).


Michael

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Re: [ZWeb] Version 3

2006-03-20 Thread Andrew Sawyers
On Mon, 2006-03-20 at 16:09 +0100, Michael Haubenwallner wrote:
 
 Understood and ok with me. Its just that we never talked about that 
 solution before (i've always seen the modscape mockups as a drop-in 
 replacement for the current mode of zope.org operation).
Forgot to reply all
This thought had never occurred to me, thus the divergence.  I had
always thought developmental work was to move forward the 'new' site -
never deal with the current one.  It was my opinion it was stay as is.

Andrew
 
 Michael
 

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Re: [ZWeb] Version 3

2006-03-20 Thread Brad Allen

Here are some comments from Jeff Rush.


Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 04:42:26 -0600
From: Jeff Rush [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
To: Brad Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ZWeb] Version 3

(I'm not a subscriber to the ZWeb list yet, so I'll send my comments to you)

Brad Allen wrote:

 http://www.modscape.com/zope/v3




- the page looks pretty dark/heavy, got a 'daylight' version ?


Not really, no. I don't think this version is dark at all.


I like the colors -- calming and clear.  I suppose if enough people 
dislike it, you could dial up the brightness of the blue a touch.



Bonnie said she liked the lilies, and they do add a nice bit of
understated beauty to the site. I don't know if the naturalistic
imagery means anything, but adding a bit of aliveness
to the page certainly can't hurt.


I like them - they are understated and don't get in the way.


The right side blurbs with icons looked really good at first glance
but on further examination I think the question mark over the
Zope sphere is visually confusing. An alternative might be to
get rid of the question mark overlay.


The question mark either needs to be dropped or enlarged so it 
extends beyond the Zope circle.



The Zope-Power Sites at the bottom only provides one example.
How about a link to more Zope-power sites and/or success stories?


This is a draft - I'm sure there will be more.  A question is how 
will multiple success stories be visually represented?


---
I have bigger questions though.

1. Does the page print well?

2. Is the site to represent -both- Zope2 and Zope3, or just Zope3? 
Wit mentions of Plone, CMF and Zope Products on the drop-down menus, 
it seems to be targeted at Zope2.


3. On those drop-down menus, lose the constant prefix Zope.  For 
example, under Business, we don't need Zope Training, just 
Training.


4. Re the copyright at the bottom - shouldn't that be Zope Foundation instead?

5. I like the drop-down menus, although they won't print.

6. The icon along the right for Zope Docs looks elongated.

Overall it looks like a good start and I like the direction.  It 
needs more filling out to get a good grasp of how the overall site 
will flow.


-Jeff


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Re: [ZWeb] Version 3

2006-03-20 Thread Tom Von Lahndorff
About printing. The CSS for printable pages has not been added yet. The 
pages will be printer freindly (inluding menus).


- Original Message - 
From: Andrew Sawyers [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Brad Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: zope-web@zope.org
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [ZWeb] Version 3





---
I have bigger questions though.

1. Does the page print well?

Dunno, a print css would solve this easily.


2. Is the site to represent -both- Zope2 and Zope3, or just Zope3?
Wit mentions of Plone, CMF and Zope Products on the drop-down menus,
it seems to be targeted at Zope2.

It has always been in my scope of trying to direct this to focus on Zope
the technology, not a specific zope version.


3. On those drop-down menus, lose the constant prefix Zope.  For
example, under Business, we don't need Zope Training, just
Training.

Drop down menus are placeholders - there is actually structre in svn we
are going to be using on the live site.


4. Re the copyright at the bottom - shouldn't that be Zope Foundation 
instead?\

There is no Zope Foundation yet.  Suppose it likely should be when it is
formed.


5. I like the drop-down menus, although they won't print.

Do we care?  Can this be handled in css?




Andrew

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Re: [ZWeb] Version 3

2006-03-20 Thread Chris Withers

Andrew Sawyers wrote:

Maybe we don't have login on these pages; maybe use a different url for
'managing' the site:  manager.zope.org or something which adds in an
additional skin which includes these macros.  Just an idea.


How would normal users go about submitting news and product releases?

Where would they upload the files?

cheers,

Chris

--
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   - http://www.simplistix.co.uk

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Re: [ZWeb] Version 3

2006-03-20 Thread Michael Haubenwallner

Chris Withers wrote:
 Andrew Sawyers wrote:
 Maybe we don't have login on these pages; maybe use a different url for
 'managing' the site:  manager.zope.org or something which adds in an
 additional skin which includes these macros.  Just an idea.

 How would normal users go about submitting news and product releases?

 Where would they upload the files?


Its been a misunderstanding. There are normal users and product releases 
in current zope.org, but that might change in the future 'zopeweb' and 
thats what Andrew was talking about in his reply.


Maybe we need to label the zope.org vision we refer to in future posts.

Michael

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Re: [ZWeb] Version 3

2006-03-19 Thread Brad Allen

 http://www.modscape.com/zope/v3



- the page looks pretty dark/heavy, got a 'daylight' version ?


Not really, no. I don't think this version is dark at all.


It looks good to me. I asked my wife, Bonnie, who is opinionated
about color schemes and she described it as soothing and calm.
If you want flashy, you may want to brighten it up, but I think this
looks appropriate for Zope. It's important to convey seriousness,
good organization and professionalism. Visitors should perceive
that Zope is active, widely used for professional work, and that
the site has usefulness.

The Zope News and Zope Products section do seem slightly drab.
Drab is ok for documention but news stories could use just a
little bit of zing.

Bonnie said she liked the lilies, and they do add a nice bit of
understated beauty to the site. I don't know if the naturalistic
imagery means anything, but adding a bit of aliveness
to the page certainly can't hurt.

The right side blurbs with icons looked really good at first glance
but on further examination I think the question mark over the
Zope sphere is visually confusing. An alternative might be to
get rid of the question mark overlay.

The Zope-Power Sites at the bottom only provides one example.
How about a link to more Zope-power sites and/or success stories?

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