Re: [Zope3-dev] release numbering

2005-04-20 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote: My suspicion is that the Zope 2 code base will eventually become the Zope 3 code base as all Zope X3 pieces get merged into it via Five. Once we completely fade out the Zope 2 code, we can call it Zope 4. +1 from me... So lets just call it Zope 3 for now... Chris --

Re: [Zope3-dev] release numbering

2005-04-20 Thread Chris Withers
Jake wrote: Well, that sounds like a nightmare. So we might have X3.1, 3.0 being released at the same time? Talk about confusing to the outside world. I think it should just be called 3.1, and silently drop the X from all past and future releases. It doesn't seem to have had any real meaning

Re: [Zope3-dev] release numbering

2005-04-20 Thread Chris Withers
Jake wrote: I agree. Drop the X when X3 has 2X support in it. That's NOT what I said ;-) Drop the X, period. Zope 2.x support in 3 will be via Five. When all that stuff is gone, call it Zope 4. cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting -

Re: [Zope3-dev] release numbering

2005-04-20 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote: Something you and Chris do not address is how to call the version of Zope 3 that will not have Zope 2 support. I believe this is called Zope 2.x + Five ;-) Seriously, I don't personally believe anything more than Five is needed, and therefore will emerge, to get Zope 2

[Zope3-dev] Building standalone ZPT from Zope 3 using zpkgtools

2005-04-20 Thread Chris Withers
Hi, Does anyone know how to build a standalone ZPT package from Zope 3 using zpkgtools? To make matters more fun, it's on Windows ;-) I got this far: C:\LocalSVN\zpkgtoolsbin\zpkg.py --resource-map=svn://svn.zope.org/repos/main/ReleaseSupport/trunk/PackageMaps/zope3.map -ca ZPT Traceback

Re: [Zope3-dev] Building standalone ZPT from Zope 3 using zpkgtools

2005-04-21 Thread Chris Withers
Roger Ineichen wrote: Hi Chris Do you know what the problem is on windows? Regards Roger Hi Roger, No idea I'm afraid, on a time time deadline on this one so I didn't have time to dig into it... cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting -

Re: [Zope3-dev] Building standalone ZPT from Zope 3 using zpkgtools

2005-04-21 Thread Chris Withers
Jim Fulton wrote: Thanks for the positive feedback. Fred Drake worked very hard on this. One thing we did right was to leverage distutils ability to build binary releases. I'm also encouraged by work done at the recent PyCon sprints that someday we'll even have a packaging system, for Python

Re: [Zope3-dev] Building standalone ZPT from Zope 3 using zpkgtools

2005-04-21 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote: There are two modes, application and package. Zope is built as an application, so you get the Makefile and all, but if you build a package you can use plain setup.py. However, I think Makefile is just a frontend for the setup.py calls anyways. Yes, but there is no

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope3-checkins] SVN: Zope3/branches/srichter-twisted-integration/src/zope/app/server/ Reimplemented common access log using Twisted's log framework. It uses our

2005-04-21 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote: On Thursday 21 April 2005 06:38, Chris Withers wrote: Why are you looking to use this rather than Python's logging package? The observer below clearly uses the Python logging package: Oops, sorry, missed that... Twisted has its own logging framework and the Twisted Web

[Zope3-dev] Overlapping Products

2005-05-16 Thread Chris Withers
Hi All, Zope 2 has the nice ability to allow you to override Products. For example, I just found a bug in ZCTextIndex which will need fixing, so between now and 2.7.7, I can just run with a patched ZCTextIndex product in my instance home without having to worry about whether the base code is

Re: [Zope3-dev] Difference in ZPT modes

2005-09-02 Thread Chris Withers
Derrick Hudson wrote: As I noted in a different post I am in favor of changing the processing logic to XML Mode. Okay, but what does mode mean in terms of ZPT? AFAIK, it's just that in HTML mode a different parser is used and things like: input tal:attributes=checked here/isChecked/

Re: [Zope3-dev] macro compatability across modes in ZPT

2005-09-02 Thread Chris Withers
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: That won't help because HTML mode macros and XML mode macros aren't compatible. I really would like to see XML be the default, including Zope 3's skin macros. Why aren't they? It would make life easier for me if they were... cheers, Chris -- Simplistix -

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: XML header and TAL interpretor

2005-09-02 Thread Chris Withers
Sidnei da Silva wrote: That smells to me like we need a mime-type negotiator or something, pretty much like we have a language negotiator for deciding which language to use for translations. No really, all this thread seems to have really uncovered so far is that macros in different ZPT

[Zope3-dev] [Fwd: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender]

2005-09-06 Thread Chris Withers
-0001XB-00; Fri, 02 Sep 2005 08:57:10 +0100 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 08:41:20 +0100 From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sidnei da Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC

Re: [Zope3-dev] ZPT modes, content types

2005-09-07 Thread Chris Withers
Sidnei da Silva wrote: On Tue, Sep 06, 2005 at 09:08:02AM +0100, Chris Withers wrote: | Sidnei appears to be broken :-( | | Any idea how to reach him? Odd. I've been receiving email normally. Yeah, but I've seen this before. The enfold mail server is configured to receive TLS mail

Re: [Zope3-dev] A Call for Slaves

2005-09-07 Thread Chris Withers
I'd be up for doing this for Windows, not really surewhat it entails though... cheers, Chris Benji York wrote: As a result of the sprint last week, we now have a BuildBot master running (http://buildbot.zope.org/) and are ready to take willing slaves (that is the BuildBot terminology, don't

[Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope3-Users] ODBC database adapter for Zope3?

2005-09-07 Thread Chris Withers
I know Zope 2 has the bizarre need for a dual Zope DA and Python DB set of things, but do we have to support this pattern in Zope 3? Is there any reason the Zope 3 RBD machinery can't just work with ANY Python DBAPI 2.0 (or whatever..) compatible database library? cheers, Chris Florian

Re: [Zope3-dev] buildbot warnings in Zope3 trunk 2.4 remy

2005-09-08 Thread Chris Withers
Benji York wrote: Can someone explain exactly what this means? ;-) It means a test failed and you should go to http://buildbot.zope.org and find out more. Then, at the very least, it should include that as boiler plate ;-) I agree. The info could really have some more details, like what

Re: [Zope3-dev] A Call for Slaves

2005-09-08 Thread Chris Withers
Benji York wrote: This is what you need: * a machine that is always on and has connectivity * Subversion so you can check out the source * Python (2.3 or 2.4) * BuildBot * Twisted (a BuildBot dependency) Yep, I can do all that for Win32... Now I just need a how-to to get me going ;-)

Re: [Zope3-dev] buildbot warnings in Zope3 trunk 2.4 remy

2005-09-08 Thread Chris Withers
Roger Ineichen wrote: I guess, a build server should only send a message if the state of the build changes. e.g. from pass to fail or fail to pass. No, every time it fails, it should send a message, or fails get lost in mailing list noise... Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope

Re: [Zope3-dev] ZPT modes, content types

2005-09-08 Thread Chris Withers
Julien Anguenot wrote: In any case, no-one has yet commented on why ZPT modes are incompatible, or if they did, I missed it. Can someone give me a pointer? I did. See : http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-dev/2005-August/015486.html *sigh* I'm not asking if they're compatibly or not,

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope3-Users] ODBC database adapter for Zope3?

2005-09-08 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote: On Wednesday 07 September 2005 08:41, Chris Withers wrote: I know Zope 2 has the bizarre need for a dual Zope DA and Python DB set of things, but do we have to support this pattern in Zope 3? Is there any reason the Zope 3 RBD machinery can't just work with ANY Python

Re: [Zope3-dev] A Call for Slaves

2005-09-12 Thread Chris Withers
Benji York wrote: It can run any command as a of step (in BB parlance). It also has several specialized steps for interfacing with CVS, Subversion, etc. Cool :-) If it's running tests, how come we see no dots? We have the verbosity turned down so any failure email messages will be more

Re: [Zope3-dev] A Call for Slaves

2005-09-12 Thread Chris Withers
Hi Benji, Benji York wrote: I've attached a self-extracting file with what you need to get started. What is it exactly? I'm not sure I like the idea of running .exe's that have been emailed to me ;-) Windows slaves should be run on a machine that is not used interactively (because of CPU

Re: [Zope3-dev] buildbot warnings in Zope3 trunk 2.4 remy

2005-09-12 Thread Chris Withers
Benji York wrote: Then, at the very least, it should include that as boiler plate ;-) Unfortunately BuildBot doesn't give us much control over the actual message. In lieu of forking it or convincing them to change it, I'm inclined to let it be. Is it really that inflexible? Surely there

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope3-Users] ODBC database adapter for Zope3?

2005-09-12 Thread Chris Withers
Benji York wrote: I guess my comments come from seeing lots of different Zope 2 DAs where all the boilerplate of the DA, as opposed to the DB, has been copied between different DAs, and often implemented with varying degrees of incompetence and lack of maintenance ;-) Perhaps a standard

[Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope-dev] Speed win in Python's urllib.quote

2005-09-12 Thread Chris Withers
Tres Seaver wrote: Zope makes *heavy* use of urllib.quote (quoting each element of the path in 'absolute_url', for instance), which makes it a particularly interesting speedup for us. Indeed, what would be the reasons for NOT including it? How should we go about measuring the speed difference

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope3-Users] ODBC database adapter for Zope3?

2005-09-12 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote: 1. Parse the DSN to the various DB package formats. One of the big problems of Python's DB API is that it does not specify a unified connection mechanism, while Zope 3 does, which is a very good thing. Oh :-( That sucks. Is there a DBAPI sig for python that we should be

Re: [Zope3-dev] A Call for Slaves

2005-09-13 Thread Chris Withers
Tim Peters wrote: BTW, Microsoft no longer sells VC6. Indeed, this was my understanding... Nevertheless, does anyone know how to legally get hold of these? (Hmmm... I work in amoungst a horde of MS developers here, maybe one of them will know...) Also, how can I build both 2.3 and 2.4

Re: [Zope3-dev] A Call for Slaves

2005-09-13 Thread Chris Withers
Tim Peters wrote: [Benji York] You can purchase them wherever fine Microsoft products are sold. Or you can fetch the compiled .pyds from my member page, as the current Windows build-bot slaves do (see the wget PYDs log and unzip PYDs log steps from the Windows 2000 fred-win column at

Re: [Zope3-dev] buildbot warnings in Zope3 trunk 2.4 remy

2005-09-13 Thread Chris Withers
Benji York wrote: It's more that I'm reluctant to figure out how they've changed the system since the last public release, make the modifications, test them, produce patches, and then persuade them to accept them. All that takes time that is presently better spent on other things. Ah

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope3-Users] ODBC database adapter for Zope3?

2005-09-13 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote: Oh :-( That sucks. Is there a DBAPI sig for python that we should be talking to about getting that fixed? There is a sig and we could try. But I have *very* little hope that such a proposal would come to fruition. Most applications don't really care about supporting

Re: [Zope3-dev] RFC: Rename principal to participant, my 2p ;-)

2005-09-13 Thread Chris Withers
After reading the majority of that thread, I think I feel the same way as everone else: - principal is better than participant - user is better then principal - BUT, given that it's a big change and likely invalidates a lot of dead tree material, I'd suggest we just stick with principal and

Re: [Zope3-dev] RFC: Rename principal to participant, my 2p ;-)

2005-09-14 Thread Chris Withers
Wichert Akkerman wrote: I disagree (and so do others it seems). Principal has been a standard and very common term in the world of security for well over a decade and is now also used in popular frameworks such as .NET and J2EE. Did you actually bother reading the rest of my reply where I

Re: [Zope3-dev] RFC: Rename principal to participant, my 2p ;-)

2005-09-14 Thread Chris Withers
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: - BUT, given that it's a big change and likely invalidates a lot of dead tree material, I'd suggest we just stick with principal and be done with it ;-) If that last point were the doctrine by which previous refactorings had to be undertaken (e.g. the

Re: [Zope3-dev] A Call for Slaves

2005-09-16 Thread Chris Withers
Tim Peters wrote: How would you do what manually? Install all the versions of Python you care about on Windows, and build Zope using the version of Python you want to test with. For example, \Python23\python setup.py build_ext -i install_data --install-dir . \Python23\python test.py

Re: [Zope3-dev] A Call for Slaves

2005-09-16 Thread Chris Withers
Benji York wrote: It's running the tests, that's what we're interested in. Ah, okay, but could we also use the buildbot model to build binary distros for various platforms? As a side issue, what's the security setup like? How do you control who can set up a slave and, as such, who gets to

Re: [Zope3-dev] A Call for Slaves

2005-09-26 Thread Chris Withers
Tim Peters wrote: [Chris Withers] Oh, sorry, I meant how do you select the right version of VC++? You don't; distutils does; if you use a Python 2.3 on Windows, its distutils will use VC6 to compile C extensions; if you use a Python 2.4 on Windows, its distutils will use VC7. It's all

Re: [Zope3-dev] A Call for Slaves

2005-09-27 Thread Chris Withers
Tim Peters wrote: As a result, nobody uses Standard editions for serious development. The lowest (cheapest) level at which they include an optimizing compiler is usually named the Professional edition. Urg, can you provide just a link to a product name for the 6.0 and 7.0 versions? I'll then

Re: [Zope3-dev] A Call for Slaves

2005-09-28 Thread Chris Withers
Tim Peters wrote: Sorry, I don't have spare time to search for you. But you provided exactly what I needed ;-) thanks Tim! cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___

Re: [Zope3-dev] Debugging Zope

2005-10-13 Thread Chris Withers
Jim Fulton wrote: Is this integrated in the python-mode? I think so, at least in recent versions. Cool, where do you get it from? How do you get it to work? cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk

Re: [Zope3-dev] Performance Testing

2005-10-13 Thread Chris Withers
Tarek Ziadé wrote: I think the only reliable way is to write a new python debugger. What does pdb have to do with it? cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope3-dev

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1

2005-10-14 Thread Chris Withers
Roger Ineichen wrote: The Zope 3 application server is stable and ready for procuction. But the Zope3 windows installer isn't. We really have to improve the installation process and offer also a built in service manager where you can start and stop the server in the future. Also the missing

Re: [Zope3-dev] Changes to zope3 windows binary installer

2005-10-14 Thread Chris Withers
Tim Peters wrote: -1 on the last suggestion 0.1 wink. I build the Zope3 Windows installer because nobody else will do it (and if you disagree with that statement, _you_ build it from now on ;-)). If someone can give me instructions assuming I'm starting from

Re: [Zope3-dev] Changes to zope3 windows binary installer

2005-10-17 Thread Chris Withers
Tim Peters wrote: The bad news is that Martin is an extremely capable PhD who worked on this across months; i.e., this was a major undertaking. The good news is that large parts of it are probably easily reusable -- by Martin ;-) Can we tempt him with beer to build a purdie one for Zope too?

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1

2005-10-17 Thread Chris Withers
Hi Roger, Roger Ineichen wrote: The main question is, what's the base source for build the Zope3 application server. I guess this will be generated by zpkgtools in some way. If I understand zpkgtools correct, we can use it for checkout the source. Right. The step after the checkout isn't

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1

2005-10-18 Thread Chris Withers
Roger Ineichen wrote: We also have to define how Zope3 get installed on a windows machine. I don't like the normal installation where is located in the python installation root right now. Is that where it ends up on Linux? If so, then we should respect that... That's not a normal

Re: [Zope3-dev] zope.app.http.put

2005-10-26 Thread Chris Withers
Michael Kerrin wrote: There is a test in zope.app.http.put.tests.test_put to make sure that this behavior is followed but it doesn't explain why you want to do this. You could always do an svn blame, find out who wrote those lines and drop them a mail... Chris -- Simplistix - Content

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: SVN: Zope3/branches/roger-bostonskin2/src/zope/app/boston/ Cleanup and some restructuring:

2005-11-07 Thread Chris Withers
I commonly get the problem when I do a checkout on unix and then add or edit files by a samba share... cheers, Chris Roger Ineichen wrote: Hi Pilipp Thanks for the note. Mine are set too, since more then 2 years now. Perhaps this was a copy paste problem. Then if you copy files in a

Re: [Zope3-dev] Subversion not working 11/8/2005 6:30am EST

2005-11-08 Thread Chris Withers
Jens has very graciously taken the time to fix this. Thanks Jens! Chris Wade Leftwich wrote: http://svn.zope.org/ An Exception Has Occurred Python Traceback Traceback (most recent call last): File /usr/local/viewcvs-1.0-dev/lib/viewcvs.py, line 3196, in main request.run_viewcvs()

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: __init__.py interfaces.py guidelines?

2005-11-21 Thread Chris Withers
Tres Seaver wrote: It is also ever-so-slightly faster, as it avoids a name lookup at point-of-use. That optimization is the source of only downside of the practice: it makes monkey-patching harder, And that's a bad thing? ''+str(whrandom.choice())+' wink' Chris -- Simplistix - Content

Re: [Zope3-dev] zope.app.application.HTTPPublicationRequestFactory interprets text/xml requests as XML-RPC

2005-11-23 Thread Chris Withers
Andreas Jung wrote: For Zope 3.2 publishers are pluggable and can be configure through ZCML. The registration is based on the request method and mime-type. Then what is this zope.app.application.HTTPPublicationRequestFactory that John has found? cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content

[Zope3-dev] zope.testbrowser.browser problem

2005-11-24 Thread Chris Withers
Hi All, Not sure if this is the right place to report this, please let me know if I should do so somewhere else... I have a form as follows: form action=aPythonScript method=POST name=form_name ... input type=submit name=action value= Go / input type=submit name=action value= Do

Re: [Zope3-dev] RFC: Reunite Zope 2 and Zope 3 in the source code repository

2005-11-24 Thread Chris Withers
Julien Anguenot wrote: Some Zope3 developers don't care about Zope2 and this is fair enough in my point of view. Zope2 starts to get old and appears to be really a mess compared to Zope3 in *2005*, plus it's not such an attractive platform as it used to be couple of years ago. (Don't get me

[Zope3-dev] zope.testbrowser and mechanize

2005-11-25 Thread Chris Withers
Benji York wrote: I actually don't want to support any exposure of mechanize functionality in zope.testbrowser. Mechanize is an implementation detail (although a very important one) and may change in the future. I think the documentation I added makes this clear. It doesn't,

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope.testbrowser and mechanize

2005-11-28 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote: I'll just note that I am +1 on all of Benji's comments. And I will remove the offending checkins before I cut the branch, if noone else does. Given that there are currently more people in favour of having useful docs than a pedantic exclusion policy, please _don't_

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope.testbrowser and mechanize

2005-11-28 Thread Chris Withers
sureshvv wrote: I am +1 on the substance of the text and -0 on the style ;) Yes, I do want to change it when I get a chance so that it's clearer that these docs are _only_ there because testbrowser doesn't currently support the required functionality... Chris -- Simplistix - Content

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope3-checkins] SVN: Zope3/trunk/src/zope/testbrowser/ rework some of zope.testbrowser's attribute names to match style guide; this

2005-11-30 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote: Other than that I think that the API is a bit too rich. It is very hard to reimplement it. One of the worst examples is the regex support in the selectors. There is no way I can reproduce that functionality in Javascript How come? JS supports regexes... cheers, Chris

[Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope-dev] Re: RFC: Reunite Zope 2 and Zope 3 in the source code repository

2005-11-30 Thread Chris Withers
Martin Aspeli wrote: ... and I'm one of those developers. I care, for the moment, about one thing: Plone. I want Plone to move to use more Zope 3 technology, sure, because it's clearly superior. But we're not going to re-write it from scratch, and neither, I suspect, will most large Z2

Re: [Zope3-dev] RFC: Reunite Zope 2 and Zope 3 in the source code repository

2005-11-30 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote: On Thursday 24 November 2005 09:17, Jim Fulton wrote: Now (well, after the December release :), I think it's time to revisit what the core of Zope 3 is and how we manage the repository. There has been a trend to manage important components separately and link them in.

Re: [Zope-dev] RE: [Zope3-dev] RFC: Reunite Zope 2 and Zope 3 in the source coderepository

2005-11-30 Thread Chris Withers
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Bottom line: I find the risk of your having to dig through horrible Zope 2 code much lower than the chance of joint efforts on Zope 3 technology. Of course, it'd be quite surprising if I didn't believe that as the author of the proposal *wink*. I agree with

[Zope3-dev] common datetime

2005-11-30 Thread Chris Withers
Alexander Limi wrote: Can I add use a common datetime implementation? ;) Philipp is already working on this :-) (and I'm keen to help out too, if there's a sane way for me to do so...) cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting -

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] RFC: Reunite Zope 2 and Zope 3 in the source coderepository

2005-11-30 Thread Chris Withers
Lennart Regebro wrote: I think this change can possibly make sense when we have replaced Zope 2 authentication with Zope 3s, and when we have replaces Zope 2 publisher with Zope 3s and when we have replaced the Zope 2 traversal with Zope3s, and maybe a couple of other things. At that point,

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] RFC: Reunite Zope 2 and Zope 3 in the source coderepository

2005-11-30 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote: * We have been constantly trying to make the trunk smaller, and suddenly we blow it up? This does not fit. In fact, I would claim that zwiki and bugtracker should now be moved out of the trunk and placed into top-level dirs themselves. They should be tested using the

Re: [Zope3-dev] zope.testbrowser.browser problem

2005-12-01 Thread Chris Withers
Gary Poster wrote: I have a form as follows: form action=aPythonScript method=POST name=form_name ... input type=submit name=action value= Go / input type=submit name=action value= Do Something / ... /form Now, I do the following with a zope.testbrowser.browser:

[Zope3-dev] X-zope-handle-errors header

2005-12-01 Thread Chris Withers
Hi All, Do we want Zope to always respond to this header? Yes, it's helpful for testing, but surely it risks information disclosure vulnerabilities or worse if used on a production application? cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting -

Re: [Zope3-dev] RE: Zope3-dev Digest, Vol 29, Issue 9

2005-12-06 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote: On Tuesday 06 December 2005 09:44, Fabrice Monaco wrote: Why not XUL? Because it sucks and is browser-specific. Be careful, or you'll have Paul in tears ;-) Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk

Re: [Zope3-dev] Twisted Publisher and Zope 2

2005-12-07 Thread Chris Withers
Jim Fulton wrote: The most important project here, IMO, is to rewire Zope 2 to use the Zope 3 publisher. And, of course, to update the Zope 3 publisher with features from the Zope 2 publisher that are missing from the Zope 3 publisher (e.g. streaming). +10 Please don't anyone write a new

[Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope3-checkins] SVN: Zope3/trunk/src/zope/testbrowser/ fix bug caused be impedance mis-match between Mechanize and zope.testbrowser

2005-12-08 Thread Chris Withers
Benji York wrote: +def _quote(self, url): +# the publisher expects to be able to split on whitespace, so we have +# to make sure there is none in the URL +return url.replace(' ', '%20') Perhaps we should be using urllib's quote function insteead of this class

Re: [Zope3-dev] Twisted Publisher and Zope 2

2005-12-08 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote: I wonder whether a similar approach as the one taken for the Twisted server migration is possible. There, if you have an instance running on ZServer an upgrade will not cause the switch to Twisted, since your startup script still refers to the old server code. You

Re: [Zope3-dev] Twisted Publisher and Zope 2

2005-12-09 Thread Chris Withers
Dario Lopez-Kästen wrote: I don't expect other people for me to fix this for me, but I suggest that this be noted somewhere where it can be seen, because ZEO is quite important for us running larger sites. I would say ZEO is essential for all serious Zope work. I have to admit to being

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope3-checkins] SVN: Zope3/trunk/src/zope/testbrowser/ fix bug caused be impedance mis-match between Mechanize and zope.testbrowser

2005-12-09 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote: I hope it would have sometimes a ? in them, since this is a totally valid character. also : will be in 90% of the URLs. The idea here is that we want to support those silly apple URLs. OK, I guess my point was that there's a perfectly good library function that does

Re: [Zope3-dev] RE: Zope3-dev Digest, Vol 29, Issue 25 Message: 11

2005-12-09 Thread Chris Withers
Fabrice, This is now about the 4th time you've just replied to a digest without changing the subject. At least you snipped out some of the irrelevent bits this time. Please can you stop doing this?! Chris Fabrice Monaco wrote: Message: 11 Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 08:25:48 -0500 From: Gary

[Zope3-dev] Load Balancing

2005-12-09 Thread Chris Withers
Fabrice Monaco wrote: I think that Z3 framework must have mecanism of load balancing and clustering, if in futhur it would like to develop criticals applications. Now if it would this, the licence if expensif. Repeat to yourself: Zope 3 is not a load balancer, Zope 3 is not a load balancer,

[Zope3-dev] OQL

2005-12-09 Thread Chris Withers
Fabrice Monaco wrote: Also, OQL in Z3 would be a grat step on other technologies. I'm sure if you provided funding, someone would be happy to to develop this for you. If you have no funding to offer, perhaps you could look at developing it yourself and feeding it back to the Zope

Re: [Zope3-dev] RE: OQL

2005-12-09 Thread Chris Withers
Fabrice Monaco wrote: I must perpare the migration of all applications in zope2 to zope3. it is the moment to decide if I contiue in technology zope3/python or another technology example : or Linux/Apache/Python/Postgress is nice... with Firefox+Xul or Windows/ASP.net c#

Re: [Zope3-dev] RE: Load Balancing

2005-12-09 Thread Chris Withers
Fabrice Monaco wrote: yes, but is necassary for clustering No it isn't. A cluster of ZEO clients can run quite happilly of a storage server, and you can keep a 1hr-hot backup of the storage server with no need for ZRS. There's also DirectoryStorage and rsync. Or you could even have two

Re: [Zope3-dev] Twisted Publisher and Zope 2

2005-12-12 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote: SchoolTool does not use ZEO, the installations are quite small, i.e. for schools with at most 5000 students. Curious. I can't imagine working with ZODB and not being able to do out-of-band processing on other machines, or processes, and not being able to do zopectl

[Zope3-dev] Re: [Zopeorg-webmaster] Zope3 Glossary edit permission

2005-12-15 Thread Chris Withers
Hi Andreas, Andreas Elvers wrote: I'd like to help out with the Zope3 glossary. Especially terms like Service should be moved to depricated terms. And there are others missing or the descriptions are simply too short. Since my native language is German it would be probably a good idea to

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope3-checkins] SVN: Zope3/trunk/src/zope/testbrowser/ fix bug caused be impedance mis-match between Mechanize and zope.testbrowser

2005-12-16 Thread Chris Withers
Benji York wrote: Two of the three lines of _quote are comments about why the method exists, is there something that you'd like added? Perhaps it shouldn't be a method at all, but refactored to be inline (with comments). Inline would be the way I'd go, as it'll stop people (mis)using the

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] December release post-mortem

2006-01-19 Thread Chris Withers
Jim Fulton wrote: I think we should investigate eggs. Do I know they will work? No. I haven't done much with them yet. Do you know they won't? Obviously not. I suggest we reserve jusdgement until we have had an opportunity for some prototyping. Based on what I've seen so far, I'm very

[Zope3-dev] ZCML bad ;-)

2006-01-19 Thread Chris Withers
Martijn Faassen wrote: Jim Fulton wrote: One issue though is that I want to replace ZConfig with a ZConfig format for zcml. (This would include making ZCML extensible to accept any other format.) The user experience would be the same, but extending it would be a lot easier than extensing

Re: [Zope3-dev] X-zope-handle-errors header

2006-01-19 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote: On Thursday 01 December 2005 09:28, Chris Withers wrote: Do we want Zope to always respond to this header? Yes, it's helpful for testing, but surely it risks information disclosure vulnerabilities or worse if used on a production application? The user would receive

Re: [Zope3-dev] Proposal: Enhance tracebacks in persistent logs

2006-01-19 Thread Chris Withers
Jim Fulton wrote: Neither. I want to use ZCML's machinery to implement ZConfig's syntax to: - make it easier to define/customize ZConfig options, and - maintain one rather than 2 configuration systems. The end-user experience would be the same. I'd love to see this ;-) At some point I want

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Proposal: Enhance tracebacks in persistent logs

2006-01-20 Thread Chris Withers
Martin Aspeli wrote: ... and thus confuse all the people trying to learn Zope 3 by seeing two fundamentally different file formats that do exactly the same thing? Anyone trying to understand anyone else's code would have to learn both anyway. Yay. They actually look remarkably similar,

Re: [Zope3-dev] RFC: ZConfig and other formats for ZCML

2006-01-20 Thread Chris Withers
Paul Winkler wrote: Does this mean we could potentially change zconfig options at runtime? i.e. no server restart? That might be useful. ...or dangerous and unpredictable, depending on your point of view... Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting -

Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope3-dev] December release post-mortem

2006-01-23 Thread Chris Withers
Jim Fulton wrote: If Python had and used a packaging system, like eggs, this wouldn't be necessary. Someday. *grinz* The irony that python is so successfuly _because_ of it's batteries included nature isn't lost on me ;-) Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: RFC: ZConfig and other formats for ZCML

2006-01-23 Thread Chris Withers
Rocky Burt wrote: I was about to make that same point. Having to know how to use two different configuration types makes getting started harder. ...well, I'll say it again, you have to know both of these anyway ;-) But, another few points that I'd like are: - using (and only using)

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: RFC: ZConfig and other formats for ZCML

2006-01-23 Thread Chris Withers
Martin Aspeli wrote: Not that XML will magically make it easier (thought it may make it more familiar, and potentially be more compatible with existing toolchains), but the big danger is that some day you'll want to look at some tutorial or example or work with someone else's code (Chris

Re: [Zope3-dev] RFC: ZConfig and other formats for ZCML

2006-01-23 Thread Chris Withers
Jim Fulton wrote: What is the fundamental difference between ZConfig and ZCML apart from the esthetic appearance that everyone seems to be so concerned with? ZConfig is also generally simpler. For example, it doesn't use XML namespaces and is thus less extensible. I'm sure ZConfig could be

Re: [Zope3-dev] ZCML bad ;-)

2006-01-23 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote: On Thursday 19 January 2006 13:45, Chris Withers wrote: - the tags never have any content, that's a sign xml is the wrong solution Not true. All complex directives have sub-directives. Well, what about the most deeply nested directive directives? And what about

Re: [Zope3-dev] X-zope-handle-errors header

2006-01-23 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote: On Thursday 19 January 2006 13:36, Chris Withers wrote: What does setting this header actually do? It sets the handle_errors argument of the publish function to false. It is the only way we can communicate from functional tests to the publisher. At a higher level

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: ZCML bad ;-)

2006-01-23 Thread Chris Withers
Paul Winkler wrote: To a large extent, they were failed experiments. Just stop using them. Eek. How do those of us who are still neophytes recognize which browser: directives are failed experiments? Is there anything in the browser: namespace we *should* use? I count 18 in Philip's book

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: ZCML bad ;-)

2006-01-24 Thread Chris Withers
Shane Hathaway wrote: FWIW, I still hate ZCML for the following reasons: Everyone seems to agree on the direction suggested here: http://www.z3lab.org/sections/blogs/philipp-weitershausen/2005_12_14_zcml-needs-to-do-less Indeed, while I strongly agree with all of this, I think it's

Re: [Zope3-dev] RFC: ZConfig and other formats for ZCML

2006-01-24 Thread Chris Withers
Fred Drake wrote: On 1/21/06, Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: are really attributes of foo. In ZCML, this might have been: foo x=1 y=2 / Except this breaks down in the case of ZConfig multikey elements, which allow configuration like this: foo x = 1 x = 2

Re: [Zope3-dev] RFC: ZConfig and other formats for ZCML

2006-01-24 Thread Chris Withers
Jim Fulton wrote: Maybe. My thought that this might be handled by cheating in the sax events. (Or maybe we shouldn't exactly do sax events.) In the event that says here's a tag named 'foo', we'd provide a list for the value of x. Or we could do separate events for each option. I think we

Re: [Zope3-dev] RFC: ZConfig and other formats for ZCML

2006-01-24 Thread Chris Withers
Fred Drake wrote: On 1/23/06, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I said earlier, I think XML is wrong for configuration for exactly this kind of reason... element-based is right for this type of config, it's why Apache uses, it's why Zope 2 uses it, and it's why Zope 3 uses

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: RFC: ZConfig and other formats for ZCML

2006-01-24 Thread Chris Withers
Martin Aspeli wrote: No, I heard you the first time. But whilst zope.conf has been around for ages, it has not been used for the purpose that ZCML is now used. Really? I thought ZCML was used for configuration of a web application/server. .conf has been used exactly that with Apache for a

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: RFC: ZConfig and other formats for ZCML

2006-01-24 Thread Chris Withers
Martin Aspeli wrote: Except ZConfig on/off switches are very easy to understand just by reading the zope.conf file. That doesn't mean that same syntax would make managing something as complex as the type of wiring ZCML is currently used for any clearer, though. No, but that's the realm of

[Zope3-dev] Re: RFC: ZConfig and other formats for ZCML

2006-01-24 Thread Chris Withers
Max M wrote: Personally I abhor these configuration languages. I can never figure out what all the options are, and I allways suspect that I am missing something clever in some undocumented cornercase somewhere. Well, ZCML is already self documenting, as far as I can see. Zope.conf would

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