[Zope3-dev] Retaining ease of customisation

2005-11-23 Thread Martin Aspeli
Hi all, First of all, a couple of apologies: for the cross-post, but I think this concerns all these groups; for my ignorance: I'm only starting to scratch the surface of Z3, via Five, coming from Plone; and for dragging this out again. However, I think this is important.; and maybe for

Re: [Zope-CMF] Re: [Zope3-dev] Retaining ease of customisation

2005-11-24 Thread Martin Aspeli
I'm just a tiny little bit confused here, what is a view and what is a resource - in Zope2 and in Zope3 ? Maybe I just don't know enough about Zope3 (or 2), but to me what JM calls a view is a resource, and vice versa... anyway, I think it's a good idea to have the conceptual discussion now

[Zope3-dev] Re: Proposal: Enhance tracebacks in persistent logs

2006-01-20 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:46:29 -, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd love to see this At some point I want to do something that lets you optionally use .conf format instead of .zcml, I reckon the above would help but my foo is way too low right now to be able to help out with it

[Zope3-dev] Re: ZCML bad ;-)

2006-01-20 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 14:54:55 -, Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chris Withers wrote: FWIW, I still hate ZCML for the following reasons: Everyone seems to agree on the direction suggested here:

[Zope3-dev] Re: RFC: ZConfig and other formats for ZCML

2006-01-20 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 13:30:19 -, Rocky Burt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, there is another risk. If we support multiple formats then that means that a developer will have to understand all of them, because if he wants to use another package that uses format X but he is used to format

[Zope3-dev] Re: RFC: ZConfig and other formats for ZCML

2006-01-23 Thread Martin Aspeli
Chris Withers chris at simplistix.co.uk writes: Rocky Burt wrote: I was about to make that same point. Having to know how to use two different configuration types makes getting started harder. ...well, I'll say it again, you have to know both of these anyway Except ZConfig on/off

[Zope3-dev] Re: Re: RFC: ZConfig and other formats for ZCML

2006-01-24 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:16:13 -, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Commercial development tools typically have pretty decent XML support, and if you were to write e.g. a ZCML editor as an Eclipse plug in, being able to rely on existing XML components would be much easier.

[Zope3-dev] Re: Refresh / Change-Buttons

2006-01-27 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 14:58:02 -, Alexander Limi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please don't include the Reset functionality in HTML forms. It is absolutely useless, and is considered one of the classic usability mistakes. Just say no, kids! Agreed. Hands up anyone who ever clicked one?

[Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name

2006-02-06 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 17:27:43 -, Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stephan Richter wrote: On Friday 03 February 2006 12:14, Shane Hathaway wrote: Andreas Zeidler wrote: On Fri, Feb 03 17:24, Encolpe Degoute [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zope 3 / Revolution ? well, how about

[Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name

2006-02-07 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 01:05:13 -, Mikhail Kashkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Have a *brand*. That means one name, a name that doesn't change. It could just be Zope 3 with a capital 3, or it could be a more distinctive name, e.g. Zope 3 Zomething (where Zomething is something to be decided)

[Zope3-dev] Re: Selecting a code name

2006-02-07 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 10:50:08 -, Martin Aspeli (sent by Nabble.com) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ick! Why is this Nabble thing sending HTML mail :-( (and why was Gmane totally unable to find this thread today?) Martin -- (muted) ___ Zope3-dev

[Zope3-dev] Re: Re: Selecting a code name

2006-02-07 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 22:37:45 -, Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alexander Limi wrote: The original discussion never suggested code names for releases, but a brand name to help Zope 3 separate itself from Zope 2 - since it is a *completely* different beast. Random

[Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-10 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 18:40:51 -, Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An idea just occurred to me. I think others have probably had similar ideas, but didn't express it in the right place or time. Part 1: Let's put an Apache-like web root Part 2: Let's add some ZCML directives

[Zope3-dev] Who would use this crazy thing called Zope 3?

2006-02-10 Thread Martin Aspeli
Hi, Let me play devil's advocate for just a moment Let me run around for a while like a headless chicken. Please don't shoot me, I'm actually quite in love with Zope 3. But I can see myself having this argument many times in the future, so I'd like some good answers. As a developer, I

[Zope3-dev] Re: Who would use this crazy thing called Zope 3?

2006-02-10 Thread Martin Aspeli
Forward compatibility is a myth, it doesn't exist. I would tend to agree. However, the degree of compatability and the time spans in questions are under the development team's control. It may, at some point, become more important to ensure continuity than to perfect things. Extreme

[Zope3-dev] Re: Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-10 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 23:39:01 -, Sidnei da Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 11:30:29PM -, Martin Aspeli wrote: | So, I'm serving static content like Apache, I'm interpreting file types | like Apache and I'm using .htaccess files like Apache. But I'm using Zope

[Zope3-dev] Re: Re: Who would use this crazy thing called Zope 3?

2006-02-11 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 10:39:52 -, Lennart Regebro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: things. Extreme example: In Plone the core Plone product is called CMFPlone. It pisses Alexander off. Should we rename it 'Plone' and thus break every product that ever imported from CMFPlone? Should we make a jungle

[Zope3-dev] Re: Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-11 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 23:49:55 -, Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, I'm serving static content like Apache, I'm interpreting file types like Apache and I'm using .htaccess files like Apache. But I'm using Zope. Why am I not just using Apache? Would I be learning this beast

[Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-11 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 16:56:23 -, Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wade Leftwich wrote: +1 from the standpoint of promoting corporate adoption, especially when combined with first-class citizenship for RDBMS. (In the corporation I work for, anyway.) Yes, RDBMS would become a

[Zope3-dev] Re: One namespace for ZCML

2006-02-13 Thread Martin Aspeli
Martijn Faassen faassen at infrae.com writes: What happens if you want to add your own statements? Should you still do that in your own namespace? No. But I don't think that it'll be much of a problem. I expect that not a lot of 3rd party packages will need their own set of ZCML

[Zope3-dev] Re: One namespace for ZCML

2006-02-13 Thread Martin Aspeli
Philipp von Weitershausen philipp at weitershausen.de writes: The problem is uncontrolled ZCML directive proliferation. It's bad enough that you have to familiarize yourself with a new API when dealing with a 3rd party Zope package. But having to learn a new set of ZCML directives?!? I think

[Zope3-dev] Re: One namespace for ZCML

2006-02-13 Thread Martin Aspeli
Philipp von Weitershausen philipp at weitershausen.de writes: I'm not arguing (here) against refactoring the namespaces in which core directives are declared. I'm arguing against the idea that namespaces are bad in general. I'm not arguing that either. I'm just saying that one

[Zope3-dev] Re: One namespace for ZCML

2006-02-13 Thread Martin Aspeli
Gary Poster gary at zope.com writes: On Feb 13, 2006, at 10:05 AM, Tres Seaver wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Stephan Richter wrote: On Monday 13 February 2006 08:36, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: [...] +1 to Stephan's comment, Tres' comment, and

[Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-13 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:51:34 -, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scripts and RBDMS are the fast food of the web development world, not the salad. Looks nice, tastes great, eventually leaves you fat and unhealthy. ZODB and maybe an ORM is the greens for me, it might not be to

[Zope3-dev] Re: zcml abbreviations

2006-02-17 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 00:30:03 -, Shaun Cutts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems to me that some of the tension around zcml arises because, on the one hand, everyone wants it to be as simple as possible, and on the other, too much simplicity of the language makes some things very tedious,

[Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-17 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 06:35:00 -, Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, we're still confused. Templates and scripts are code. Should they be in ZODB? Grrr, I hope not. I don't want to suffer that pain, fssync or no fssync. I invented the CMF skins tool primarily to pull a lot

[Zope3-dev] Re: Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-17 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 23:45:24 -, Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: User interfaces speak louder than books. Start up Zope 3, log in as a manager, and look at the list of things you can add. It includes DTML Page, File, Image, Python Page, SQL Script, and ZPT Page. I suggest

[Zope3-dev] Re: The Zope Software Certification Program and Common Repository Proposal

2006-02-20 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 21:28:09 -, Stephan Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have spent the last two weeks working on a proposal that defines a Zope Software Certification Program (ZSCP) and a Common Repository that implements this process. The proposal is attached to this mail. I welcome

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Two visions

2006-02-28 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:33:05 -, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't see how *saying* what Zope 5 will contain will make it *exist* any time sooner. These sound like useful evolution proposals for Zope 2 and Zope 3 to me... The current story of Zope 2, Five and Zope 3

[Zope3-dev] Re: Visionaire! (All your problems, solved)

2006-03-02 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:42:14 -, Jeff Shell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally, I still find it hard to know where the line goes between the ZMI and my own UI code, if I should be extending the ZMI or replacing it. Perhaps because I'm tainted by Zope 2's idea of the ZMI, though.

Re: [Zope3-dev] Visionaire! (All your problems, solved)

2006-03-02 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:49:31 -, Lennart Regebro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This should be Zope3 as it is now. A couple of things can go away. Maybe the rotterdam skin, I don't know. Definitely the default Folder objects and such. People, especially Zope2 people, think that you are supposed

[Zope3-dev] Re: visions, brands and roadmaps in the sand

2006-03-02 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 17:44:36 -, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would encourage all Zope developers to print out Martijn's post and hang it on the wall over their monitors. Please, no more empty promises that scare people. :) Martin -- (muted)

[Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Two visions

2006-03-02 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:13:03 -, Rocky Burt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) The Zope 3 name and brand is a marketing disaster (from my perspective) -- to be honest there's really no way I could see this actually getting worse by coming up with a new name. How many times in the #plone channel

[Zope3-dev] Re: Re: Re: Two visions

2006-03-02 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 19:31:38 -, Stefane Fermigier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Strange how (most of) the Plone people seem to be so quick in willing to sacrifice the Zope brand :( I don't think that's true. I'm certainly not, and I've not heard anyone directly in favour of that either. What

[Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: Visionaire! (All your problems, solved)

2006-03-04 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 19:39:50 -, Dieter Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Windows, Windows 98/NT/ME/CE/2000/2003/XP, All of which have the same brandname... Windows, same with Office. I hear of Avalon/Longhorn Longhorn is a codename, it's now called Windows Vista. Avalon is a UI

[Zope3-dev] Re: The vision thing

2006-03-05 Thread Martin Aspeli
- Non-technical users who just want to crank our a web application with little muss and fuss. This was the original focus of Zope 2 and now Plone I think this is better served by applications on top of Zope, rather than trying to make the framework sit that close to the user. Like

[Zope3-dev] Re: Re: A Take on the Hello World Acid Test - from Mandatory Viewing

2006-03-09 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:44:56 -, Paul Winkler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Mar 09, 2006 at 02:38:48PM +0100, Paul Everitt wrote: One little Python script, maintained as part of the standard distribution, referred to ubiquitously as the right way to start, would have more impact on

[Zope3-dev] Re: a new zcml directive?

2006-03-12 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 00:49:19 -, Marius Gedminas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think this is exactly the same as Jeff Shell's suggestion, but its 3am, and I'm too tired to read his entire message. I find I have that problem even at more sociable hours of the day (depending on whom you

[Zope3-dev] Re: Reducing the Amount of ZCML Directives ready for review

2006-03-17 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:56:54 -, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Before this merge goes through, I would propose the following steps: Take the document and edit it so it's a clear guide for what you should do with broken directives. I.e. for browser:localUtility we want to

[Zope3-dev] Re: Re: a plan for widgets?

2006-03-17 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 03:31:59 -, Sidnei da Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yum Yum. That reminds me of Archetypes-Hum. Was that an endorsement or criticism? :) Martin -- (muted) ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub:

[Zope3-dev] Re: Google SoC Project

2006-05-06 Thread Martin Aspeli
Hi Stephan! Nate sent just a message that I am interested in a SoC project with the Plone Foundation. Okay, let me write something too. It feels almost like cheating, since you're likely to know more than any potential mentor about the stuff you're working on, but I think it'd be a

[Zope3-dev] Re: Making a separate project for zope.bforest

2006-05-06 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Sat, 06 May 2006 21:14:57 +0100, Gary Poster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey all. Seems like no-one but ZC has used zope.bforest, and it probably fits better in the a million itsy-bitsy projects story now that we have it (and an accompanying automated test story). Anyone object if I move

[Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 lacks Ajax capability?

2006-05-15 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Mon, 15 May 2006 18:49:24 +0100, Jeff Rush [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I looked at MochiKit and studied the Async package, but perhaps I didn't understand it. I only saw ways for the client to sneak HTTP REQUESTSs to the server behind the user's back, but nothing for the server to reach

[Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 2.9 and Zope 3 i18n, more questions...

2006-06-05 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 14:52:40 +0100, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally I'm not looking for a solution for Zope 2.9 or 2.10 as PTS and PloneLanguageTool solve all these use-cases right now, but are hard to extend, impossible to re-use and you know Zope2 ;) Well, these are my

[Zope3-dev] XPATH in zope.testbrowser, assertions in zope.testrecorder

2006-06-24 Thread Martin Aspeli
Hi guys, I just started using zope.testbrowser and zope.testrecorder for doing integration tests. The case study is Ploneboard, the long-overdue message board for Plone, which has a workflow maze to compete with the best of them. Permissions control actions like reply, delete, edit and

[Zope3-dev] Re: XPATH in zope.testbrowser, assertions in zope.testrecorder

2006-06-25 Thread Martin Aspeli
Daniel Nouri wrote: Martin Aspeli wrote: [...] o In zope.testrecorder, the ability to add comments that become DocTest comments is a stroke of genius. What I'd love to see, though, is the ability to add assertions for text. Basically, if I could mark some text in the browser and have

[Zope3-dev] Re: XPATH in zope.testbrowser, assertions in zope.testrecorder

2006-06-26 Thread Martin Aspeli
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Benji York wrote: Martin Aspeli wrote: o In zope.testbrowser, [snip] having the ability to select nodes by XPATH would be incredibly useful Yep, I and others have thought the same thing. I imagine an existing library would be available to make

[Zope3-dev] zope.testbrowser too trigger-happy with urlencodes?

2006-06-26 Thread Martin Aspeli
Hi, I've got a situation where a form submit will eventually end up in an action that does (in Zope 2): context.REQUEST.RESPONSE.redirect('/path/to/foo/#bar') This works fine through the web, but using zope.testbrowser, the # gets converted to %23 (which is the correct urlencoding

[Zope3-dev] Re: zope.testbrowser too trigger-happy with urlencodes?

2006-06-26 Thread Martin Aspeli
Tres Seaver wrote: Note that the fragment identifier is *never* going to be passed to the server by a real browser: instead, the browser strips of the fragment part, submits the remainder of the URL to the server, and then does a search for the appropriate 'a name=bar' element *on the client

[Zope3-dev] Re: Pluggable authentication id management

2006-07-31 Thread Martin Aspeli
Jim Fulton wrote: On Jul 31, 2006, at 2:02 PM, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: ... If you ask me, the slipping of the Zope 3 June release is mostly due to the lack of a release manager. If we had a release manager who'd kick people's asses, we might have more betas since the first one and we

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-04 Thread Martin Aspeli
Martijn Faassen wrote: So, my proposal for Zope 3.4: * have a developer_notes file or directory somewhere. * let this contain the developer-visible changes. * it should be focused on how to change your code. That's the important bit. Motivations and such might also be useful to

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-04 Thread Martin Aspeli
baiju m-2 wrote: This document is maintained as a wiki page, so anyone can edit it. http://kpug.zwiki.org/WhatIsNewInZope33 This is great! It's probably exactly what we need. Martin -- View this message in context:

[Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3.2 maintenance

2006-09-11 Thread Martin Aspeli
Rocky Burt wrote: Thanks Hanno! I don't think we should take Hanno for granted (not that you do) - he does some incredible work, and he's always done it without anyone asking him to do so. It benefits Plone more than people realise, and we're really fortunate. If Hanno was less generuos or

[Zope3-dev] Re: Release schedule for Zope 2.11/3.4?

2006-09-12 Thread Martin Aspeli
Hanno Schlichting wrote: What do you think about a 9 month release cycle? Based on the Plone experience I think this is a good compromise, between release often and stable releases. The Plone experience as I see it is that we get some measure of contribution fatigue. Take Plone 2.5 and

[Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope-dev] Release schedule for Zope 2.11/3.4?

2006-09-12 Thread Martin Aspeli
Benji York wrote: Personally I think we should just release the trunk every six months (with a list of known bugs) and that be it. (I'm speaking of Zope 3 here, I don't know enough about the dynamics of the Zope 2 ecosystem to comment there.) What good could that possibly do? For the

[Zope3-dev] Re: zope.interface.Interface.(isImplementedBy vs implementedBy)

2006-09-19 Thread Martin Aspeli
Chris Withers wrote: Hi All, What's the difference between these two? implementedBy is what I meant to use, by I braino'ed isImplementedBy instead. def providedBy(object): Test whether the interface is implemented by the object Return true of the object asserts that it

[Zope3-dev] Re: Use launchpad ! (was Re: the maintenance of change logs)

2006-09-29 Thread Martin Aspeli
Jeff Shell wrote: Compare: - http://dev.zope.org/Zope3/RoadMap - http://www.sqlalchemy.org/trac/milestone/0.3.0?by=severity Or dev.plone.org. Trac is pretty nice, especially as an svn browser and for the roadmap view. The issue tracker is quite good (could be better, but works fairly

[Zope3-dev] Re: Grrr. zope.org wikis are evil.

2006-10-07 Thread Martin Aspeli
Hi Jim, I have some wiki desires of my own that I'll probably never realize: - HTML WYSIWYG Wikis that don't use any form os structures text (small s) and just use an HTML editor. I think that structured text of any kind is an obstacle to Wiki use. Moin moin's markup rules drive me as

Re: [Zope3-dev] Test Layers

2006-10-17 Thread Martin Aspeli
Chris Withers wrote: Now, related to this, say I have content objects X and Y, which are expensive to set up. I have LayerX which sets up a sample content object X, and LayerY which does the same for content object Y. This is fine for tests which need one or other content type, but how

[Zope3-dev] Re: PyCon 2007 web frameworks panel

2006-10-31 Thread Martin Aspeli
Paul Winkler wrote: This sounds like something that could stand being talked about in public more often... I've never heard of Zope Grok :) Me Grok... me SMASH ZCML! Martin ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub:

[Zope3-dev] Re: adaptation based on class rather than interface

2006-11-09 Thread Martin Aspeli
Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote: And there is nothing wrong with using inheritance when there is a '__IS A __' type of relation (e.g. an ordered folder IS A folder IS AN item, ...), or if there is a HAS_A type of relation (a folder has items, a chair has four legs...). It seems that Zope3 has

[Zope3-dev] Re: adaptation based on class rather than interface

2006-11-09 Thread Martin Aspeli
OT: Thunderbird makes a real mess of interpreter examples, thinking the '' is an indent and making it a coloured line. Anyone got an idea how I stop it from doing that? Martin ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub:

[Zope3-dev] Re: adaptation based on class rather than interface

2006-11-13 Thread Martin Aspeli
Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote: but conceptually it is the same mess :-) i.e. a total lack of specification. It only looks nicer with interfaces. So, in other words (and in summary of previous blog posts): - New techniques complement, rather than completely replace, old techniques - New

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: adapter registration question

2006-11-15 Thread Martin Aspeli
Chris Withers wrote: Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: ...hence the quotes. It's a function in that I want to use it as an adapter that doesn't need to be instantiated by a factory before being used. All adapters need to be instantiated. Why? def myStrAdapter(something):

Re: [Zope3-dev] wading through zcml...

2006-11-16 Thread Martin Aspeli
Chris Withers wrote: What's the difference between zope:view, browser:view, browser:page and browser:viewlet? I would strongly encourage you to buy Philipp's book when the second edition comes out, and read some of the available existing documents (e.g. worldcookery.com, the Zope 3 wiki

Re: [Zope3-dev] Some thoughts on Zope 3, Zope 3 applications, and Zope 3 instances

2007-01-04 Thread Martin Aspeli
Jim Fulton wrote: Some thoughts on Zope 3, Zope 3 applications, and Zope 3 instances I found this very interesting. As more of an indirect consumer to Zope 3 (but user of Zope 3 via Five and developer of Plone on Zope 2), here are some of my own thoughts. In the Zope2/CMF/Plone world, we

[Zope3-dev] Re: Some thoughts on Zope 3, Zope 3 applications, and Zope 3 instances

2007-01-05 Thread Martin Aspeli
Jim Fulton wrote: Martin Aspeli wrote: ... Anyway - I hope these perspectives are useful. I'm certainly not disagreeing with what you're saying or with the direction you're pointing out. I think we just need be mindful that there were some good things about the past approaches as well

[Zope3-dev] Re: Some thoughts on Zope 3, Zope 3 applications, and Zope 3 instances

2007-01-06 Thread Martin Aspeli
Martijn Faassen wrote: My hope is that with Grok we can inject some sensibilities into Zope 3 that focus more on getting things done easily and quickly. I think that the basis built with an attitude of reusable and flexible components is great to build a powerful getting things done easily

[Zope3-dev] Re: Some thoughts on Zope 3, Zope 3 applications, and Zope 3 instances

2007-01-06 Thread Martin Aspeli
Paul Everitt wrote: Thus, telling the Zope 3 core team to own and distribute the killer app is neither realistic nor fair. Move Zope 3 to its natural turf and collaborate with folks that feel passionate about other turf. Application != the framework. A very good point. Perhaps the future

[Zope3-dev] Re: Grok sprint 2 reports

2007-01-09 Thread Martin Aspeli
Martijn Faassen wrote: Hi there, We had a Grok sprint in Germany over the weekend, and we got two reports about it: Rock on :) What is the current state of the art in terms of Grok examples and documentation? What is the best place to look to find out about the latest development

[Zope3-dev] Re: Grok sprint 2 reports

2007-01-09 Thread Martin Aspeli
Peter Bengtsson wrote: Philipp has posted a blog entry with a good example of Grok code: http://www.z3lab.org/sections/blogs/philipp-weitershausen/2007_01_09_you-thought-zope-3-wasn Gorgeous! I especially like that you don't have to manually define the template since it's picked up

Re: [Zope3-dev] wildcard adapter

2007-01-17 Thread Martin Aspeli
Chris Withers wrote: Hi All, I was wondering if someone could give me a definitive explanation of what the following means: adapter for=* ISomething * ... ...means? Is the following equivalent: provideAdapter(...,adapts=(None,ISomething,None),...) No, but this

Re: [Zope3-dev] development checkout

2007-02-01 Thread Martin Aspeli
Chris Withers wrote: Hi All, It's been way too long since I did that, but how do I go about getting an svn checkout of Zope 3 that I can develop with? Is there a how-to somehwere? I'd imagine it goes something like: 1 - checkout svn url you wish to develop with 2 - do some

[Zope3-dev] Re: Test layers for zope.app.* packages

2007-02-05 Thread Martin Aspeli
Jim Fulton wrote: I *really* want to be able to have the current Zope 3 application assembled entirely from eggs by the end of PyCon. Me too! :) Not that I'm helping (much?), but the Plone people are getting all excited about eggs. We even have a monstrous Plone egg that contains all of

[Zope3-dev] Could queryAdapter() have side effects?

2007-02-10 Thread Martin Aspeli
Hi, This is most likely just something gone wrong with my test setup, but I thought I'd ask just in case I've hit some obscure bug. Basically, I have a test that uses PloneTestCase and ZopeTestCase on Zope 2.10, with a layer that loads site.zcml. The ZCML for my package registers a

[Zope3-dev] Re: run-time adapter registration and un-registration

2007-02-15 Thread Martin Aspeli
Chris Withers wrote: Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Interesting. plone.portlets actually uses the Component Architecture and a persistent registry as the underlying plugin system, it just provides a fancy UI on top of this to manipulate the registry. Is this an adapter registry, a utility

[Zope3-dev] zope.app.form generates invalid HTML

2007-02-22 Thread Martin Aspeli
Hi guys, I'm pretty sure you're not allowed dots in ids of HTML elements. At least not when they are prefixed by 'form'. A zope.schema.TextLine in a formlib form, for example, generates HTML like this: input id=form.title class=textType type=text value=Changed title size=20

Re: [Zope3-dev] zope.app.form generates invalid HTML

2007-02-23 Thread Martin Aspeli
Tres Seaver wrote: I'm pretty sure you're not allowed dots in ids of HTML elements. The attached HTML and XHTML pages both pass the W3C validator (one HTMl 4.01 strict, the other XHTML 1.0 strict). Both use dotted IDs for form elements. Neither renders properly in Firefox 1.5 (the

[Zope3-dev] Re: zope.app.form generates invalid HTML

2007-02-24 Thread Martin Aspeli
Andreas Reuleaux wrote: Try #form\.title I had no idea you could do this. Thank you! It works like a charm. I'll shut up now. :) Martin ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub:

[Zope3-dev] Re: Google Summer of Code

2007-03-05 Thread Martin Aspeli
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Dear developers of Zope, Google is doing Summer of Code this year again. With an entity like the Zope Foundation in place, Zope could participate for the first time. Awesome :) I was involved in running Plone's process last year, and will probably do so

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Google Summer of Code

2007-03-05 Thread Martin Aspeli
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: On 5 Mar 2007, at 09:48 , Christian Theune wrote: I've added myself too. Thanks. I'd be interested in having some ZODB problem, although I'd like not to put the 'clean up the interfaces' burden onto a student project that ought to be interesting.

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Google Summer of Code

2007-03-07 Thread Martin Aspeli
Christian Theune-2 wrote: It's on the ZODB trunk already for a while. The current trunk is going to be ZODB 3.8 and was already released as an alpha. And it will be the ZODB that ships with Zope 2.11. Wonderful :-) I'm currently writing up a proposal for an extended Blob version

[Zope3-dev] Re: Eggs for deprecated packages

2007-03-29 Thread Martin Aspeli
Jim Fulton wrote: On Mar 29, 2007, at 6:30 AM, Baiju M wrote: Hi, There are few deprecated packages in zope.app namespace, should we create individual eggs for those packages ? Yes. What about creating a single egg with all deprecated packges ? -1. We should be able to create the

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Eggs for deprecated packages

2007-03-30 Thread Martin Aspeli
Jim Fulton wrote: I think we need to have a much more basic discussion. IMO deprecation was a reasonable thing to try that hasn't really worked out well. People find deperecation warnings to be very annoying and I don't think it's going to be practical to make

[Zope3-dev] A couple of documentation issues in zope.component

2007-04-01 Thread Martin Aspeli
Hi guys, Not sure if I need to file these as bugs or not, but: 1. In zope.component.interfaces, unregisterHandler() is defined as: def unregisterHandler(handler=None, adapts=None, name=u''): but the implementation in registry.py is: def unregisterHandler(self, factory=None, required=None,

[Zope3-dev] Re: Releasing Zope 3.4

2007-04-11 Thread Martin Aspeli
FWIW, and in case it's helpful to someone, below is a (bash) script I use to release the eggs I manage for Plone. Nothing magical at all, but it's worked well for me. It's semi-automatic, meaning that it asks you to review each step before an svn commit. I use 'ploneout', a zc.buildout of

[Zope3-dev] Re: Releasing Zope 3.4

2007-04-15 Thread Martin Aspeli
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: I think we need some tools for this first. something that allows us to say: for packages x, y, and z do the following: Create a tag, change setup.py, and then create the egg. If we do not have this tool, every release will be a major pain. For 3.4, such

Re: [Zope3-dev] Grok sprint 2 reports

2007-04-20 Thread Martin Aspeli
Tres Seaver wrote: I think you just proved Martin's point: in my experience, maintaining other people's AT-based code is like Napoleon before Moscow: thigh deep in freezing mud. By AT, I assume you mean Archetypes, and Archetypes doesn't depend on code generation, nor is it very hard

[Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3.4, eggs and windows

2007-04-22 Thread Martin Aspeli
Christian Theune wrote: Hi, I took Martin's script and adapted it for this release. Heh, I've been doing open source for a few years now, but I still get a slight buzz when someone from outside my core constituency makes use of some code I've written. :) Glad it worked out. If you have

[Zope3-dev] Re: yagni on overrides?

2007-04-26 Thread Martin Aspeli
Leonardo Rochael wrote: If someone else presents me with an alternative zcml configuration for my package that was useful for their project, I can put this zcml file in my package for others to include when using it, instead of my default configuration. If there are parts in common between the

[Zope3-dev] Re: what dependency to use for zope 3

2007-05-11 Thread Martin Aspeli
Brian Sutherland wrote: It's just going to get very difficult very quickly to manage such a meta egg with over 100 or so dependencies. Though I guess there'll be automated tools to manage this. Better we do the difficult part than each and every user does it. In the ideal world, there are no

[Zope3-dev] Re: what dependency to use for zope 3

2007-05-12 Thread Martin Aspeli
Brian Sutherland wrote: On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 11:59:37PM +0100, Martin Aspeli wrote: Brian Sutherland wrote: It's just going to get very difficult very quickly to manage such a meta egg with over 100 or so dependencies. Though I guess there'll be automated tools to manage this. Better we

[Zope3-dev] Re: Status update on b1

2007-05-14 Thread Martin Aspeli
Christian Theune wrote: If anybody wants to take on one of the ones named above, feel free to use Jim's template for zope.app packages which lives in /Sandbox/J1m/zope.app-template. Have you guys thought about using Paste Script to create new packages? We do this for virtually all new Plone

[Zope3-dev] Re: for attribute not checked in zcml

2007-06-10 Thread Martin Aspeli
Christophe Combelles wrote: Hello, Many zcml directives have a for attribute, which take an interface as argument. Absent-minded people like me sometimes happen to put a real class instead of an interface in the for attributes. * On browser:page, one can put a real class with no error. Is

[Zope3-dev] Re: ISite misplaced in zope.app.component.interfaces

2007-08-10 Thread Martin Aspeli
Fred Drake wrote: I think site is widely understood term in Zope 3 now and everyone knows about it. We gain absolutely nothing by renaming it. I think zope.site would be a great package name for ISite and friends. Widely understood, yes. Frankly, I've *never* liked it, because it doesn't

[Zope3-dev] Re: Heads up: major change in zc.buildout policy for selecting distributions

2007-08-20 Thread Martin Aspeli
Jim Fulton wrote: I'm about to make a new release of zc.buildout that uses a different policy for selecting distributions. In particular, by default, zc.buildout will now prefer final distributions over non-final ones. If there are final and non-final distributions that satisfy a

[Zope3-dev] Re: RFC: Known working sets

2007-09-03 Thread Martin Aspeli
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Deliverables * zc.buildout's extends mechanism would have to be enhanced to be able to load files from HTTP locations. Apparently this already works, I just tested it. I did not bother trying this out before

[Zope3-dev] Re: What does python 3000 mean for zope?

2007-09-03 Thread Martin Aspeli
Tres Seaver wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: The ExtensionClass changes are not done, and I think there are other C-level changes which have not It was never said whether Zope 2 would be part of the GSoC

[Zope3-dev] Re: RFC: Known working sets

2007-09-03 Thread Martin Aspeli
Hi Philipp, - It only works through buildout. Ideally it would be supported at the setuptools level, imho. I'm not really convinced that that's necessary. From a practical perspective, zc.buildout is the defacto deployment tool in the Zope community. Alas, not so for all Plone people:

[Zope3-dev] Re: RFC: Known working sets

2007-09-03 Thread Martin Aspeli
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: I trust by this approach you mean the EGG-INFO approach? Because the stuff I proposed originally already works... Actually, I meant your proposal: I'd like to see a concrete example of it, and a workable process/policy for managing releases in this way; and

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