[Zope3-dev] Re: How to debug zope3 if it completely hangs?

2007-07-12 Thread Tres Seaver
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Benji York wrote:
 Fabio Tranchitella wrote:
 I'd like to know if zserver is a good choice for high loads or if it
 deprecated and I should stay with twisted.
 
 We run some pretty high load apps, and we're happy with zserver.
 
 Was zserver disabled only for security reasons?
 
 I don't believe it had anything to do with security.

Nope:  it was disabled because:

 - Not many people feel competent to extend ZServer.

 - People thought that using a server maintained by others was better
   than maintaining one ourselves.

 - Twisted offers potential features which seemed interesting at the
   time (I don't know how many of them actually got integrated).

I prefer ZServer becuase:

 - It is faster.

 - It is less complex.

 - It got *lots* of attention for real-world scaling issues, and
   is rock-solid stable.

 - I don't need the extra shiny features.

Note that the flavor-of-the-month is actually WSGI now, rather than
Tsisted (which uses the WSGI support):  see Philipp's zope on a paste
demo, for instance.


Tres.
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Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: How to debug zope3 if it completely hangs?

2007-07-12 Thread Jim Fulton


On Jul 12, 2007, at 11:04 AM, Tres Seaver wrote:


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Benji York wrote:

Fabio Tranchitella wrote:

I'd like to know if zserver is a good choice for high loads or if it
deprecated and I should stay with twisted.


We run some pretty high load apps, and we're happy with zserver.


Was zserver disabled only for security reasons?


I don't believe it had anything to do with security.


Nope:  it was disabled because:


Actually, Zope 3 doesn't use ZServer. Never has.  It uses zope.server  
which is a different implementation.


It was made to be no-longer the default server.  This was a mistake  
BTW. My bad.  zope.server is still supported.



 - Not many people feel competent to extend ZServer.

 - People thought that using a server maintained by others was better
   than maintaining one ourselves.


Yup.

...



I prefer ZServer becuase:

 - It is faster.


We (ZC) have had serious problems with the twisted server in  
production.  We no-longer use it.  It may have improved.  It's worth  
noting that the trouble we've had might be due to something we/I did  
in the integration. :(  Chasing this is not a priority of mine.



 - It is less complex.


I'm not so sure about this. Maybe.


 - It got *lots* of attention for real-world scaling issues, and
   is rock-solid stable.


I don't think this is true, or at least not as true as you think it  
is. :)


The zope.server != ZServer.  :(  It seems to be working reasonably  
well, but it is not the same server that has served Zope 2 well for  
many years.


Not counting Twisted, we are currently supporting 2 servers, ZServer  
and zserver. :(


...


Note that the flavor-of-the-month is actually WSGI now, rather than
Tsisted (which uses the WSGI support):  see Philipp's zope on a  
paste

demo, for instance.


I really wish someone would create some server benchmarks for WSGI so  
that we could have a more rational basis for evaluationg servers.


Jim

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