Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope.sendmail having dependency on zope.app.comonent
Previously Marius Gedminas wrote: > On Fri, Aug 31, 2007 at 01:21:08PM +0200, Christian Theune wrote: > > Am Freitag, den 31.08.2007, 13:06 +0200 schrieb Wichert Akkerman: > > > Is there documentation on sources anywhere? The last time I checked > > > there was nothing that I could understand either in zope.* or > > > on the wiki. > > > > It took me a while to understand them myself. Especially as there is > > some code in there that is basically not useful. > > > > I'll try to give a very short overview: > > How do you feel about adding it to the top of zope/schema/sources.txt? I've added it there now. Wichert. -- Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>It is simple to make things. http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple. ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope.sendmail having dependency on zope.app.comonent
Am Freitag, den 31.08.2007, 14:04 +0200 schrieb Christophe Combelles: > I was still using vocabularies, but it seems interesting, thanks for the > explanation! > So it basically looks like a vocabulary, with the token and title parts being > seperated and optional. Right, and with defaults (I tried to find good defaults) for generating titles and tokens for almost any objects. ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope.sendmail having dependency on zope.app.comonent
On Fri, Aug 31, 2007 at 01:21:08PM +0200, Christian Theune wrote: > Am Freitag, den 31.08.2007, 13:06 +0200 schrieb Wichert Akkerman: > > Is there documentation on sources anywhere? The last time I checked > > there was nothing that I could understand either in zope.* or > > on the wiki. > > It took me a while to understand them myself. Especially as there is > some code in there that is basically not useful. > > I'll try to give a very short overview: How do you feel about adding it to the top of zope/schema/sources.txt? Marius Gedminas -- We don't care. We don't have to. We're the Phone Company. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope.sendmail having dependency on zope.app.comonent
Christian Theune a écrit : Hi, Am Freitag, den 31.08.2007, 13:06 +0200 schrieb Wichert Akkerman: Is there documentation on sources anywhere? The last time I checked there was nothing that I could understand either in zope.* or on the wiki. It took me a while to understand them myself. Especially as there is some code in there that is basically not useful. I'll try to give a very short overview: Sources are designed with three concepts: - The source itself - an iterable This can return any kind of object it wants. It doesn't have to care for browser representation, encoding, ... - A way to map a value from the iterable to something that can be used for form *values* - this is called a token - A way to map a value to something that can be displayed to the user - this is called a title The last two elements are dispatched using a so called `term`. The ITitleTokenizedTerm interface contains a triple of (value, token, term). Additionally there are some lookup functions to perform the mapping between values and terms and tokens and terms. Sources that require context use a special factory: a context source binder that is called with the context and instanciates the source when it is actually used. The general design is very nice as it seperates the concerns correctly, for simple use cases it requires you to write quite a few components (3 classes most times) which is why I came up with zc.sourcefactory which basically provides a cleaner easy-to-use API for (as the name says) application developers while having the backend APIs be logically sound. Hope this helped, Christian I was still using vocabularies, but it seems interesting, thanks for the explanation! So it basically looks like a vocabulary, with the token and title parts being seperated and optional. Christophe ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/ccomb%40free.fr ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope.sendmail having dependency on zope.app.comonent
Hi, Am Freitag, den 31.08.2007, 13:06 +0200 schrieb Wichert Akkerman: > Is there documentation on sources anywhere? The last time I checked > there was nothing that I could understand either in zope.* or > on the wiki. It took me a while to understand them myself. Especially as there is some code in there that is basically not useful. I'll try to give a very short overview: Sources are designed with three concepts: - The source itself - an iterable This can return any kind of object it wants. It doesn't have to care for browser representation, encoding, ... - A way to map a value from the iterable to something that can be used for form *values* - this is called a token - A way to map a value to something that can be displayed to the user - this is called a title The last two elements are dispatched using a so called `term`. The ITitleTokenizedTerm interface contains a triple of (value, token, term). Additionally there are some lookup functions to perform the mapping between values and terms and tokens and terms. Sources that require context use a special factory: a context source binder that is called with the context and instanciates the source when it is actually used. The general design is very nice as it seperates the concerns correctly, for simple use cases it requires you to write quite a few components (3 classes most times) which is why I came up with zc.sourcefactory which basically provides a cleaner easy-to-use API for (as the name says) application developers while having the backend APIs be logically sound. Hope this helped, Christian ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope.sendmail having dependency on zope.app.comonent
Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: On 30 Aug 2007, at 14:19 , Michael Howitz wrote: Am 22.08.2007 um 15:53 schrieb Philipp von Weitershausen: Michael Howitz wrote: while looking at the dependencies of packages in the zope.* namespace at gocept we found out that zope.sendmail depends on zope.app.component. Just to make sure: If we ever had a formal distinction of the zope.* and zope.app.* namespaces, I think we've abandoned it a while ago already. So, it doesn't matter whether a package is in zope.* or zope.app.*, we need to take all interdependencies (also the ones in zope.app.*) into account. So all in all I don't think it's a big problem in zope.sendmail depended on zope.app.component, as long as zope.app.component wouldn't depend on a gazillion other things... So, you suggest to leave this dependency as it is as long no-one complains? In general, yes. That said, zope.app.component isn't the lightest dependency. It draws in almost all of zope.app.* zope.sendmail needs zope.app.component.vocabulary.UtilityVocabulary to define a vocabulary for the utilities implementing zope.sendmail.interfaces.IMailDelivery. So we'd suggest to move zope.app.component.vocabulary.UtilityVocabulary out of the zope.app.* namespace because it is a generic vocabulary. Possible places for UtilityVocabulary could be zope.component (because the concept of utilities is defined there) or zope.schema (because the concept of vocabularies is defined there). zope.schema seems to be the better place because zope.component does not depend on zope.schema yet. But zope.schema does in no way depend on zope.component. Yes, you are right. So we would introduce a dependency from zope.schema to zope.comonent. The only way to get lost of the zope.app dependency seems to be a new package "zope.app.sendmail" (including deprecation!). But there is already a zope.app.mail which is deprecated and will be removed in 3.5. I don't understand why that is "the only way" and why we have to create more packages in that dreadful zope.app.* namespace. One way to break this dependency is to move the UtilityVocabulary out to a separate package, e.g. zope.utilityvocabulary. Another way is to simply stop using UtilityVocabulary; this would also be an opportunity to replace it with a source. zc.sourcefactory is supposed to make this quite easy (and from what I've seen, it does), but unfortunately its dependencies aren't exactly light-weight either. Is there documentation on sources anywhere? The last time I checked there was nothing that I could understand either in zope.* or on the wiki. There are some docs here: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/zc.sourcefactory Regards, Baiju M ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope.sendmail having dependency on zope.app.comonent
Previously Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: > On 30 Aug 2007, at 14:19 , Michael Howitz wrote: > > >Am 22.08.2007 um 15:53 schrieb Philipp von Weitershausen: > > > >>Michael Howitz wrote: > >>>while looking at the dependencies of packages in the zope.* > >>>namespace at gocept we found out that zope.sendmail depends on > >>>zope.app.component. > >> > >>Just to make sure: If we ever had a formal distinction of the > >>zope.* and zope.app.* namespaces, I think we've abandoned it a > >>while ago already. So, it doesn't matter whether a package is in > >>zope.* or zope.app.*, we need to take all interdependencies (also > >>the ones in zope.app.*) into account. So all in all I don't think > >>it's a big problem in zope.sendmail depended on > >>zope.app.component, as long as zope.app.component wouldn't depend > >>on a gazillion other things... > > > >So, you suggest to leave this dependency as it is as long no-one > >complains? > > In general, yes. That said, zope.app.component isn't the lightest > dependency. It draws in almost all of zope.app.* > > >>>zope.sendmail needs > >>>zope.app.component.vocabulary.UtilityVocabulary to define a > >>>vocabulary for the utilities implementing > >>>zope.sendmail.interfaces.IMailDelivery. > >>>So we'd suggest to move > >>>zope.app.component.vocabulary.UtilityVocabulary out of the > >>>zope.app.* namespace because it is a generic vocabulary. > >>>Possible places for UtilityVocabulary could be zope.component > >>>(because the concept of utilities is defined there) or > >>>zope.schema (because the concept of vocabularies is defined there). > >>>zope.schema seems to be the better place because zope.component > >>>does not depend on zope.schema yet. > >> > >>But zope.schema does in no way depend on zope.component. > > > >Yes, you are right. So we would introduce a dependency from > >zope.schema to zope.comonent. > >The only way to get lost of the zope.app dependency seems to be a > >new package "zope.app.sendmail" (including deprecation!). But there > >is already a zope.app.mail which is deprecated and will be removed > >in 3.5. > > I don't understand why that is "the only way" and why we have to > create more packages in that dreadful zope.app.* namespace. > > One way to break this dependency is to move the UtilityVocabulary out > to a separate package, e.g. zope.utilityvocabulary. > > Another way is to simply stop using UtilityVocabulary; this would > also be an opportunity to replace it with a source. zc.sourcefactory > is supposed to make this quite easy (and from what I've seen, it > does), but unfortunately its dependencies aren't exactly light-weight > either. Is there documentation on sources anywhere? The last time I checked there was nothing that I could understand either in zope.* or on the wiki. Wichert. -- Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>It is simple to make things. http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple. ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: zope.sendmail having dependency on zope.app.comonent
On 30 Aug 2007, at 14:19 , Michael Howitz wrote: Am 22.08.2007 um 15:53 schrieb Philipp von Weitershausen: Michael Howitz wrote: while looking at the dependencies of packages in the zope.* namespace at gocept we found out that zope.sendmail depends on zope.app.component. Just to make sure: If we ever had a formal distinction of the zope.* and zope.app.* namespaces, I think we've abandoned it a while ago already. So, it doesn't matter whether a package is in zope.* or zope.app.*, we need to take all interdependencies (also the ones in zope.app.*) into account. So all in all I don't think it's a big problem in zope.sendmail depended on zope.app.component, as long as zope.app.component wouldn't depend on a gazillion other things... So, you suggest to leave this dependency as it is as long no-one complains? In general, yes. That said, zope.app.component isn't the lightest dependency. It draws in almost all of zope.app.* zope.sendmail needs zope.app.component.vocabulary.UtilityVocabulary to define a vocabulary for the utilities implementing zope.sendmail.interfaces.IMailDelivery. So we'd suggest to move zope.app.component.vocabulary.UtilityVocabulary out of the zope.app.* namespace because it is a generic vocabulary. Possible places for UtilityVocabulary could be zope.component (because the concept of utilities is defined there) or zope.schema (because the concept of vocabularies is defined there). zope.schema seems to be the better place because zope.component does not depend on zope.schema yet. But zope.schema does in no way depend on zope.component. Yes, you are right. So we would introduce a dependency from zope.schema to zope.comonent. The only way to get lost of the zope.app dependency seems to be a new package "zope.app.sendmail" (including deprecation!). But there is already a zope.app.mail which is deprecated and will be removed in 3.5. I don't understand why that is "the only way" and why we have to create more packages in that dreadful zope.app.* namespace. One way to break this dependency is to move the UtilityVocabulary out to a separate package, e.g. zope.utilityvocabulary. Another way is to simply stop using UtilityVocabulary; this would also be an opportunity to replace it with a source. zc.sourcefactory is supposed to make this quite easy (and from what I've seen, it does), but unfortunately its dependencies aren't exactly light-weight either. ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: zope.sendmail having dependency on zope.app.comonent
Am 22.08.2007 um 15:53 schrieb Philipp von Weitershausen: Michael Howitz wrote: while looking at the dependencies of packages in the zope.* namespace at gocept we found out that zope.sendmail depends on zope.app.component. Just to make sure: If we ever had a formal distinction of the zope.* and zope.app.* namespaces, I think we've abandoned it a while ago already. So, it doesn't matter whether a package is in zope.* or zope.app.*, we need to take all interdependencies (also the ones in zope.app.*) into account. So all in all I don't think it's a big problem in zope.sendmail depended on zope.app.component, as long as zope.app.component wouldn't depend on a gazillion other things... So, you suggest to leave this dependency as it is as long no-one complains? zope.sendmail needs zope.app.component.vocabulary.UtilityVocabulary to define a vocabulary for the utilities implementing zope.sendmail.interfaces.IMailDelivery. So we'd suggest to move zope.app.component.vocabulary.UtilityVocabulary out of the zope.app.* namespace because it is a generic vocabulary. Possible places for UtilityVocabulary could be zope.component (because the concept of utilities is defined there) or zope.schema (because the concept of vocabularies is defined there). zope.schema seems to be the better place because zope.component does not depend on zope.schema yet. But zope.schema does in no way depend on zope.component. Yes, you are right. So we would introduce a dependency from zope.schema to zope.comonent. The only way to get lost of the zope.app dependency seems to be a new package "zope.app.sendmail" (including deprecation!). But there is already a zope.app.mail which is deprecated and will be removed in 3.5. Any suggestions? -- Yours sincerely, Michael Howitz gocept gmbh & co. kg · forsterstrasse 29 · 06112 halle/saale www.gocept.com · fon: +49 345 12298898 · fax: +49 345 12298891 ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: zope.sendmail having dependency on zope.app.comonent
On Wednesday 22 August 2007 09:53, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: > Just to make sure: If we ever had a formal distinction of the zope.* and > zope.app.* namespaces, I think we've abandoned it a while ago already. > So, it doesn't matter whether a package is in zope.* or zope.app.*, we > need to take all interdependencies (also the ones in zope.app.*) into > account. So all in all I don't think it's a big problem in zope.sendmail > depended on zope.app.component, as long as zope.app.component wouldn't > depend on a gazillion other things... I agree. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics & Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: zope.sendmail having dependency on zope.app.comonent
Michael Howitz wrote: while looking at the dependencies of packages in the zope.* namespace at gocept we found out that zope.sendmail depends on zope.app.component. Just to make sure: If we ever had a formal distinction of the zope.* and zope.app.* namespaces, I think we've abandoned it a while ago already. So, it doesn't matter whether a package is in zope.* or zope.app.*, we need to take all interdependencies (also the ones in zope.app.*) into account. So all in all I don't think it's a big problem in zope.sendmail depended on zope.app.component, as long as zope.app.component wouldn't depend on a gazillion other things... zope.sendmail needs zope.app.component.vocabulary.UtilityVocabulary to define a vocabulary for the utilities implementing zope.sendmail.interfaces.IMailDelivery. So we'd suggest to move zope.app.component.vocabulary.UtilityVocabulary out of the zope.app.* namespace because it is a generic vocabulary. Possible places for UtilityVocabulary could be zope.component (because the concept of utilities is defined there) or zope.schema (because the concept of vocabularies is defined there). zope.schema seems to be the better place because zope.component does not depend on zope.schema yet. But zope.schema does in no way depend on zope.component. zope.app.component then can import UtilityVocabulary from the new place to avoid deprecation. -- http://worldcookery.com -- Professional Zope documentation and training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
